---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  John Bull Extract (David J. Sylvester)
  Fermentation 'Analogue' (David Taylor)
  Singha (STROUD)
  Good Guinness depends on Freshness, Tap, Pouring Style (09-Aug-1991 0946)
  Brewpubs/bars in NYC? ("Harold A. Rosenberg")
  Re: M&F Wheat Extract (plus another cheap swipe at Darryl Richman ;-) (Bob Devine  09-Aug-1991 0848)
  Wild and crazy yeasts (Thomas Socha)
  Brewpubs in Orlando (Dave Jerzycki)
  Hard Cider Mailing List (hersh)
  Thumbrules (GERMANI)
  NYC, dry malt extracts (ez005142)
  Re: Oatmeal Stout (larryba)
  Re: Aluminum clad pots (larryba)
  Filter canister sale at Builder's Square (Brew Free or Die!  09-Aug-1991 1415)
  How do I pour my Homebrew??? (Greg Pryzby)
  Unwarranted Beginner's Worries aka "It's Alive!" (RJS153)
  It's the yeast I could do... (nnieuwej)
  Bottles and Storage (rdm5g)
  Vapor bubbles in thermometer (Chad Epifanio)
  cooling wort with ice (from rec.food.drink) (sewer!psrc)
  cool wort with ice???
  Re: cool wort with ice???
  Re: cool wort with ice???
  Book: Under the Influence (man)
  Malts & Carboys (Peter Glen Berger)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Aug 91 06:38:15 -0400
From: David J. Sylvester <sylveste at wsfasb.crd.ge.com>
Subject: John Bull Extract

Hi

	Recently we saw a very lively discussion on the use of corn syrup in
extracts and the merits of M&F products. I would like to know if anyone has
an positive/negative feelings about John Bull extracts. I have used an amber
of theirs to make a lager, which is still ageing, and am thinking of using
their light unhopped tomake a Pilsner. Would anyone like to talk me out of
it, or say a few kind words? Thax.

		Dave Sylvester

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Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1991 09:38 EST
From: David Taylor <DAVID at phillip.edu.au>
Subject: Fermentation 'Analogue'

Greetings from Australia, For my last couple of outside-in-the-shed lager
fermentations I've taken out 100ml of wort after the yeast has been pitched
and stirred, for the usual starting gravity reading. After taking the reading
I don't throw the sample back in, just leave it on the table next to the
fermenter with the hydrometer floating in it. I've noticed that the sample
ferments and the gravity falls, such that when airlock activity has stopped
the sample reads 1010-1012. Any comments on how accurately the sample is
performing as an 'analogue' of the main volume?

To Robert Nielsen <robertn at folsm3.intel.com>, I replied to your mail re:
fourex, if you didn't receive it- I'll help if I can, try again. 

Thanks all...  David

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Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1991 10:12 EST
From: STROUD%GAIA at sdi.polaroid.com
Subject: Singha

     Singha is indeed Thai and has more in common with a German Pils than any
other style of beer. (German technical help was used in 1934 to set the
brewery up).
     
      With all of the comments in the last couple of HBD's, I'm amazed that
most people called it "malty".  The key word here is "hoppy, hoppy, hoppy", 
(although it does have enough malt sweetness to not be way out of balance).
     Singha is brewed with an OG of 1055, alc. is 6% by volume, and it has ,
according to Jackson, "a hearty 40 units of bitterness."  When fresh, it is a 
world class beer (IMHO).  It's the hoppiness that helps it cut through spicy 
foods so well.

Steve Stroud

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Date: Fri, 9 Aug 91 07:11:10 PDT
From: smithey at esosun.css.gov (Brian Smithey)

send 697 from homebrew-new

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Date: Fri, 9 Aug 91 07:34:36 PDT
From: 09-Aug-1991 0946 <hannan at gnpike.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Good Guinness depends on Freshness, Tap, Pouring Style

First, a comment on Bavarian Pils and pouring:

strasser at raj2.tn.cornell.edu (Tom Strasser) writes:
 
> The Bavarians are adamant about this, and have a
> rule of thumb that it takes 7 minutes to pour a good Pilsner.  
> ...
> The owner claims that the
> Germans use a different tap which aerates the beer on pouring.
> ...
> aeration adds significantly to the taste of the poured beer.  This

I was in Bavaria for almost 2 weeks on a business/pleasure *-) trip and 
agree with the above after careful observation and analysis ;-).  After 
asking the barmaid "where's my bier" on the first day she said she was 
working on it.   The tap seemed to "spit" the beer out into the tall thin 
pilsener glasses, and it foamed up a lot, then settled, then some more 
pouring, and so on.  Some of the head would get scooped out during this 
process until a nice full glass with an over-the-top-head remained.

Great stuff.

Now onto Guinness:

I've been supping Guinness for at least 12-14 years and where you get it,
the type of tap, and how it's poured makes a HUGE difference!  Probably #1
is the tap type.  It's got to be the patented Guinness tap that uses nitrogen.
Fresh Guinness out of a regular tap produces a bubbly dark brew, nothing like
the real thing or the way Guinness should be.   The nitrogen tap produces the 
creamy head with "micro-bubbles" and a much smoother product.

The Guinness must be fresh for the brew to be a *good* Guinness.  A couple
of bars in Dorchester (Boston) would have great Guinness on sunday afternoons
after a new keg would be tapped from the previous nights.  

*The* best place for Guinness in the Boston area is in Cambridge at the
Plough & Stars.   It's the prevalent brew drunk there and is always fresh
(particularly on weekends).   They know how to pour it: nice and slow, though
it depends on the bartender.  They typically have a few lined up and settling 
at the bar, about 1/3 to 1/2 full.  When you order one, the bartender fills the
remainder of the glass (in two or more steps if you're lucky ;-).  I'd usually 
ask the 'tender to start another before I'm finished with the current one so
there'd be no rush.

A slowly poured Guinness, where a bit is poured at a time, then settled, then
more pouring/settling, makes a huge difference IMO.   

Even in the UK they poured it too fast sometimes.

Ken	"Bitter is Better But Bavarian is Best"

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Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1991 10:38:18 -0400
From: "Harold A. Rosenberg" <rosen at rockies.eecs.umich.edu>
Subject: Brewpubs/bars in NYC?


I was in NY a couple of weeks ago, and a friend took me to McSorleys.
It is billed as the oldest bar in NY City.  They have two choices of
beer, light and dark, and you usually order two at a time because they
are in such a rush that they only fill the glasses half way (they are
priced accordingly.)  The beer was pretty good, and the atmosphere
was interesting.  It seemed more the run down type of place that you
would find in a college town than a NY bar.  It was a definite relief
from all of the overpriced trendy places that I had seen in NY.

Have Fun, 

Hal

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Date: Fri, 9 Aug 91 07:55:58 PDT
From: Bob Devine 09-Aug-1991 0848 <devine at cookie.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Re: M&F Wheat Extract (plus another cheap swipe at Darryl Richman ;-)

> From: "William F. Pemberton" <wfp5p at euclid.acc.Virginia.EDU>
> Subject:  M&F Wheat Extract
 
> M&F Wheat is very nice, but a little dark.  If you use two cans two cans,
> you will get a brew that is closer to a Dunkelweizen then a plain Weizen.

I would classify such a higher gravity beer as a "weizenbock".
A "dunkelweizen" should have some roasted grain flavor/aroma.

Weizenbocks have the characteristic of bock sweetness but with
wheat flavor (duh!) and the phenolic nose of weizen yeasts.
 

> From: hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu
>>P.S. Is it true that Darryl Richman is now, or will soon be, an IBU?
> Yes I hear the International Standards Organization (ISO) has been discussing
> renaming the IBU, the Richman.
> So how many Richmans in that Pale Ale??

Maybe the better question is "how many Pale Ales are in that Richman?"

Bob Devine

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Date: 09 Aug 91 10:47:42 EDT
From: Thomas Socha <76605.1774 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Wild and crazy yeasts

 	I was looking at some bottles of Leindman's Belgium beer(Peche)
and noticed that they had some sediment at the bottom of these
bottles.  Does this sediment contain "wild yeast" and if so has 
anyboby tried culturing these yeast?  Or, is my eyes playing 
tricks on me and there isn't any sediment.
                     Thank You,
                     Tom
e-mail 76605.1774.compuserve.com
D


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Date: Fri, 9 Aug 91 10:33:37 -0600
From: Dave Jerzycki <daveje at gr.hp.com>
Subject: Brewpubs in Orlando


 Anyone have any names of brewpubs in Orlando, Florida or in the nearby area?

 Thanks,
 dave jerzycki
 daveje at hpgrla.gr.hp.com

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Date: Fri, 09 Aug 91 13:13:38 EDT
From: hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Hard Cider Mailing List



I am pleased to announce the creation of a Hard Cider Mailing List, with me as
it's humble organizer.

To get on the list please do the following:
1) Send Mail to cider-request@ expo.lcs.mit.edu
2) Put the word Subscribe on the subject line
3) Include your preferred e-mail address in the body of the message, I don't
   want to rely on the included reply address

To get off the list or stop multiple copies:
1) Send mail to cider-request@ expo.lcs.mit.edu
2) Put the word unsubscribe on the subject line
3) Include the e-mail address to which the cider list has been getting sent
   in the body of the message (again I don't want to rely on reply addresses)

To submit to the list:
1) Send mail to cider at expo.lcs.mit.edu

Thnigs to remember:
1) This is an echo'ed list not a daily digest
2) There is a human processing subscribe/unsubscribe requests
3) Please no flaming!! Let's try to keep this on a par with the HBDs quality


A lot of people sent for my cider write-up a few months back. I think I have
saved all or most of your addresses. I am considering automatically subscribing
those people, except for the few who specifically asked not to be subscribed.
So if you don't want to be on it and you'd received the cider write-up please
write me soon and I'll take you off. Otherwise I will start this list up
early next week. 

Enjoy.

	JaH

PS Presently this offer is only being made available to HBD Subscribers and not
the newsgroups. This is in order to try to keep the discussion level high, and
the traffic volume manageable.


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Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1991 13:18 EST
From: GERMANI%NSLVAX at Venus.YCC.Yale.Edu
Subject: Thumbrules


Dr. John, a wise man once said to me, never let yourself be ruled by 
a thumb.

			Joe

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Date: Fri, 9 Aug 91 10:22:03 -0700
From: ez005142 at pollux.ucdavis.edu
Subject: NYC, dry malt extracts


I'm no expert on NYC beer (since I live in California), but on my last
visit to Brooklyn my friend introduced me to a local beer called 
(appropriately enough) Brooklyn Lager.  Don';t have any idea where it
is brewed exactly, but it is worth a shot.  Seemed a bit heavy and dark
to me, but it was much better than the other yellow-watery stuff most
bars serve.

I remember hearing somewhere that dry malt extracts are actually made
for the bread-making business, not the homebrewing business (if you'd
call homebrewing a business!).  I had heard that this is the reason you
can never be sure about the color a dry malt extract will impart to your
brew--becasue bread makers couldn't care less about Lovibonds!  Perhaps
this is why the dry malt extracts tested and reported in Zymergy had
so much other stuff in them.  Please that (a spelling error) take
the above information with a grain of salt--I can't remember where I
heard it.  If anyone out there knows the truth, I'd be interested to hear
it.  I have abandoned dry extracts for that reason.

Where does one get Calcium Chloride?  I've been egetting most of my
supplies from Great Fermentations of Santa Rosa, but CaCl doesn't
seem to be one of the brewing salts that they sell.  I want it to
eliminate the 500-770 ppm of bicarbonate.  Boiling the water after\
addition of enough CACl ought to remove most of the carbonate, and the
Chlorine should evaporate upon boiling.  Anyhow, any info on where
you all get the stuff would be helpful.  It seems like a chemical
distributor would be the best bet because you could by a ton for
really cheap, but I'm unsure of the purity of something from a chemical
company--no offense to those in that indusrty, but. . . .

Thanks, adios.

Chris Swingley
Institute of Ecology
UC Davis

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Date: Fri Aug 09 10:41:52 1991
From: microsoft!larryba at cs.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Oatmeal Stout

In HBD #698 a recipie for oatmeal stout showed up.  It listed Steel cut
oats as the source of oats.  Speaking from ignorance (about the beer, not
oats) I would think that it would be better to use rolled oats.  Rolled
anything ( oats, wheat, barley) has been pre cooked by the hot rollers.
The cooking gelatinizes the starch and breaks down the structures to make
the starch more available.  Steel cut oats would have to be cooked some
amount of time before adding to the mash.  Another word for "rolled"
would be "flaked" and flaked barley/wheat is often called for in
brewing as they can be added directly to the grist w/o cooking.


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri Aug 09 10:48:00 1991
From: microsoft!larryba at cs.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Aluminum clad pots

Spend the extra $'s.  The cladding lessens the carmelization of sugars
on the bottom of the pot.  With my old enameled pot I *never* got off some
of the carmel/carbon after a few brews.  With the new clad pot what is
down there is a small quantity of light colored, easily removed stuff.

Some unsolicited hints: I use a wimpy electric stove, so I wrap my pot with a
layer of insulite to speed the time to boil and create a more vigorous boil.
I find that putting a couple of chop sticks between the lid and the pot (i.e.
lift the lid up 1/4") allows me to have the  heat cranked on full and never
boil over - yet I get a vigorous boil that fills the 4 gallons of head space
with foam/hot break.


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Date: Fri, 9 Aug 91 11:32:56 PDT
From: Brew Free or Die! 09-Aug-1991 1415 <hall at buffa.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Filter canister sale at Builder's Square

Builder's Square, friend of the gadget-crazed homebrewer, has another
pretty good deal until August 13th (in my area).  They are offering the
Teledyne Water Pik Water Filter Canister model K-50 for $9.97, normally
$17.97.  Combine that with a polypropelene filter cartridge (see below)
and some sundry plumbing bits and pieces, and you can be filtering beer
(or water destined to become beer) for less than $20.  I intend to filter
beer between two soda kegs, a la Rodney Morris' article in Zymurgy several
issues back (just after the Kentucky AHA conference).

Filter cartridges:  Morris' lists several suppliers.  Builder's Square has
all types for the Teledyne, but I think they were cheaper directly from
Teledyne ($12.99 including shipping for a Teledyne IR-20W Twin 2-pack,
polypropelene wound-string style).  Morris reuses them by soaking in a
lye solution and then a bleach solution.

 -Dan

  =_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=
  Dan Hall                        | Digital Services / Network Connectivity
  Digital Equipment Corporation   | ARPAnet: hall at buffa.enet.dec.com
  Digital Drive                   | EASYnet: BUFFA::HALL
  MS MKO1-2/H10, PO Box 9501      | Usenet : ....!decwrl!buffa.dec.com!hall
  Merrimack, NH  03054-9501       | NET    : (603) 884-5879
  =_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=
  "One per customer, domestic beer only, no sharing!"  -Moe, at the tavern


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Date: Fri, 9 Aug 91 00:52:00 EDT
From: neptune!pryzby at uunet.UU.NET (Greg Pryzby)
Subject:  How do I pour my Homebrew???

After reading about the length of time required to "properly" pour
Guiness, I was wondering how should I pour my homebrew?

Anybodyu care to email/post a list of how to pour the different styles,
or should I JRaHaHB (just relax....)?

Also any info you want to send about how you repitch your yeast would
be appreciated...

peace,
 greg

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Date: 09 Aug 91 14:27:10 EDT
From: RJS153%SYSU at ISS1.AF.MIL
Subject: Unwarranted Beginner's Worries aka "It's Alive!"

I want to thank everyone who replied in the digest and directly to me for
relieving me of my worries concerning the lack of bubbles in my bottled
beer.  As you all pointed out, the action was too slow to see visibly.  I
popped open the first bottle and was met by a beautiful sound "fssst".
Sounded good, tasted good, it's homebrew!  For my first try, I'm pretty
satisfied.  Next time I'm gonna use all malt during the primary instead of
cheating with a little corn sugar.  That should give me a fuller body taste,
correct?  Can you use DME or something along those lines for priming?

Again, thanks for your help.

- --Randy--


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Date: Fri, 09 Aug 91 15:14:14 -0400
From: nnieuwej at pooh.bowdoin.edu
Subject: It's the yeast I could do...

I live on the coast of Maine (hee hee hee :->) where homebrew supply
shops are few and far between.  It is rare that any of the three
stores that I am aware of have anything other than your standard
Red Star dry yeast :-(.  Certainly there is nothing like the selection
I've heard of on the net (German ale yeast #1007 !!?! what!?!).  Is
there another store in Maine (other than the Whip&Spoon, the Purple Foot,
and the Grainery) or is there a reliable mail order house?  Any addresses
or phone numbers would be much appreciated.

Oh yeah, any idea why a beer would gush when opened warm but not when
it's been chilled?

 -Nils 'my cup runneth over' Nieuwejaar

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Date: Fri, 9 Aug 91 15:38:16 EDT
From: rdm5g at hemlock.cs.Virginia.EDU
Subject: Bottles and Storage




With regard to beer bottles and storage, the domestic brands
come in the very convenient, heavily waxed cardboard boxes.  They
are great for aging and storage.  

What do you folks do when these boxes wear out.  I haven't run into this
problem yet, but I expect to in the near future.  What I would really love
to get my hands on are some of the old wooden crates that the returnable
Coca-Cola bottles were shipped in.  Guess it is time to start hitting rummage
sales....

Sooner or later I will have to begin using kegs and leave the troublesome
bottles behind.

any input?


Rod McElrath 		"So round, so firm, so fully packed,	
rdm5g at virginia.edu	 So free and easy on the draw."	  Pall Mall Cig. Advert 
_______________________________________________________________________________



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Date: Fri, 9 Aug 91 15:02:04 PDT
From: chad at mpl.UCSD.EDU (Chad Epifanio)
Subject: Vapor bubbles in thermometer

	OK, heres an interesting situation.  Recently I set out to make a batch
of all-grain something-or-other, and thought things couldn't get any worse than
the time I tested out my home-made counter-flow wort chiller two weeks ago.
As usual, Murphy found me and slapped me over the head with his law.  While
checking my equipment, I found that my thermometer had developed a case of the
bends.  It had several distinct vapor bubbles in the mercury column, making it
offset by an unknown amount.
	A simple solution would have been to calibrate it in ice water and 
boiling water, and hope that the vapor bubbles didn't vary with temperature.
The other solution I thought of was to somehow force the mercury back together
again.  Shaking it didn't help; I couldn't develop enough force.  Then I tried
centrifugal force.  I put the thermometer in its case, plugged it up, and
duct-taped a long piece of cord to one end.  I know, you can see it coming
already, but let me finish.  I proceeded to swing the contraption about my head,
gradually letting out string.  Occasionaly I stopped, and not seeing any results
in the mercury column, I proceeded to swing it faster and getting madder. 
	If your thermometer ever gets the bends, don't use this procedure.
Forcing the bubbles back together had as much effect as forcing the Yugoslav's
back together.  While letting out more string and swinging it faster, I heard
a distinct(you guessed it) crash.  The end of the case made contact with a 
palm frond, and the resulting shock reduced the thermometer to a mass of 
glass shards and liquid metal.  Perhaps I should have tried the calibration 
method first.
	Anyway, if someone has had this happen before, and managed to solve
it, could you let me know?  It will give me the satisfaction of knowing what
I could have done instead.  
	By the way, is there anybody out there in the San Diego area that
knows where I could pick up a thermometer cheap...and quick?

Chad Epifanio                       |  "There are no bad brews.
Scripps Institution of Oceanography |   However, some are better
Marine Physics Laboratory           |   than others."
chad at mpl.ucsd.edu		    |
================================================================
"All words and ideas are my own, etc., etc..."


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Date: Thu, 8 Aug 91 16:55:12 EDT
From: jupiter!sewer!psrc at abars.att.com
Subject: cooling wort with ice (from rec.food.drink)

When one of the posters on the Netnews rec.food.drink group posted
about boiling and then cooling (but not freezing) his water, I was
moved to ask the following:

What would happen if I tried to cool the wort in the pot by adding
ice?  If I was concerned about water quality, I could freeze boiled or
spring water.  This would cool the wort faster than adding cold water.
The wort would give up heat equal to the ice's heat of fusion (ice
absorbs a *lot* of heat when it melts).  Would the cold break not
work?

There were some very nice followup postings (with two people saying
they'd done this to good effect).  I thought the information should be
shared with the Homebrew Digest.  I've done some minor editing, mostly
of header lines and margins.

From: John.DeCarlo at p109.f131.n109.z1.FidoNet.Org (John DeCarlo)
Newsgroups: rec.food.drink
Subject: cool wort with ice???
Date: 30 Jul 91 14:32:34 GMT

I do this exact thing and get a good cold break.  (Don't know how it
compares to full-volume boil and wort-chiller.)

The only caveat I have heard of is that your freezer is a source of
bacteria and such.  So I always boil the water, pour into wide-mouthed
containers (so the ice can get out), cover tightly, then chill and
freeze.  Thus I am reasonably assured of getting sanitized ice for
chilling.

 * Origin: Cluster Point, McLean, VA (1:109/131.109)

From: kswanson at casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Kurt Swanson)
Newsgroups: rec.food.drink
Subject: Re: cool wort with ice???
Date: 31 Jul 91 01:43:42 GMT
Organization: Academic Computing and Network Services, Evanston, Il.

Assume you have five gallons of 100C wort (just boiled). How much ice
will it take to get the temp to pitchable temp?  Well, you need to drop
five gallons by 80 degrees C.  If I am correct in remembering that
water's heat of fusion is 80, then an equal amount of 0C ice will be
needed to lower the temp of some amount of 100C water.  Thus, you would
need equal volumes, which is quite a dilution of the original wort.
Note that this is pseudo-scientific:

a) wort is not equivalent to H20 (I believe wort takes more than 1
calorie to raise 1 gram, 1 degree C).  Thus more ice is needed.

b) the original ice is now liquid, but still at 0C, and would thus mix
with the wort cooling it further.  Thus less ice is needed.

While I would be surprised if a & b cancelled each other out, they have
opposing effects.  I believe b would have more of an effect.  The key
here, is that is going to take a lot of ice probably somewhere in the
range of 25-50% of original boiling wort volume.  Most brewers (even
extract) like to boil the entire quantity of wort, (for reasons more
than simple infection possibilities, but I won't get into that), not
diluting it at all - this is why we have wort chillers.  Mind you this
is just a pet diagnosis obtained without full consideration of the
entire data.  Would ice affect cold break? I don't know.  My
inclination is yes, but to a minor extent.
- -- 
Kurt Swanson, Dept. of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science,
Northwestern University.  kswanson at casbah.acns.nwu.edu

(To which John replied:)

Hmmm, but who uses 0C ice any more? <grin>

John "My freezer is *much* colder than that" DeCarlo

Finally, from that master of the "don't use malt extract, don't use dry
yeast, don't relax, worry" school (Martin has described some very
exacting procedures, and reasons to follow them without shortcuts; see
his rather alarming article, which will probably appear in the same
issue of HBD as this article):

From: malodah at PacBell.COM (Martin A. Lodahl)
Newsgroups: rec.food.drink
Subject: Re: cool wort with ice???
Date: 30 Jul 91 20:10:22 GMT
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA

In fact, if you're not boiling the entire wort volume, this method
works wonderfully well.  You'll get a great cold break.  Until I went
all-grain, I used this method with considerable success.

The principal advantage of adding ice to the kettle rather than pouring
boiling wort over the ice is that agitating hot wort in the presence of
air will oxidize the melanoidins in the wort.  Over time, these will
then serve as a catalyst for the oxidation of alcohols into aldehydes,
producing stale, papery, and cardboard- like flavors.  Oddly, if the
melanoidins remain reduced (as they usually are at the end of the
boil), they can retard this same reaction (see Fix, George:
"Principles of Brewing Science").
- -- 
= Martin A. Lodahl    [DoD, AHA, NRA]  Systems Analyst, Pacific*Bell =
= malodah at PacBell.COM		Sacramento, CA, USA     916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!!  8-)} =

Paul S. R. Chisholm, AT&T Bell Laboratories, paul.s.r.chisholm at att.com
att!epic!jupiter!psrc, psrc%jupiter at epic.att.com, AT&T Mail !psrchisholm
I'm not speaking for the company, I'm just speaking my mind.

P.S.:  It looks as if rec.arts.brewing will be created in Netnews, and
I'd like to repeat my offer to help information pass back and forth
between the group and the Digest.  (*Please* let's not clutter up
either with discussions of whether the group should have been created;
if you really want to discuss it, send e-mail.)

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Date: Fri, 9 Aug 91 13:55 EDT
From: man at kato.att.com
Subject: Book: Under the Influence

Well, I just finished Under the Influence - The unauthorized story of
the Anheuser Busch Dynasty.  I must say I enjoyed the book.  Lots of
scandal and such.  Two things I did find disturbing, though.

1.  The authors make very little mention of the taste of A-B's "product"
    over time.  The only real mention it got was in the last chapter.
    After dumping on them for 400+ pages, they praise A-B for the ability
    to make ~ "arguably the finest mass produced beer in the world."

2.  Throughout the book, all the Busch's are praised for their unerring
    battle to maintain quality in the beer. August Sr. was praised for
    not changing the recipe to make it sweeter after the repeal of
    prohibition.  Gussie was praised for not shortening the lagering
    process to match Schlitz in the early 70's.  There were other
    things mentioned, but all pointed to A-B not modifying their
    "process" to make the "product".  Now, is this true ?  Has Bud
    not changed in 100+ years ?  I doubt it.

A good read.  I recommend it.  I wish August III would use that drive
of his to make a style of beer that I like.

Mark Nevar
 ..!att!kato!man


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Date: Sun, 11 Aug 91 16:39:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Peter Glen Berger <pb1p+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Malts & Carboys


First off, thanks to the MANY people who responded to my first query:
all of the information I got was helpful and informative.  Sorry I
couldn't respond, but it's been a busy week.

Okay, I'm a rank novice homebrewer.   I have a few specific questions:

1) What advantages are gotten out of a carboy rather than bucket?
Will it make a difference for my first few batches which will
undoubtably be made with "commercial" hopped malt syrup?  How much
should I expect to spend on one?  Can I get one anywhere but a
homebrew shop?

2) Could anyone describe the differences between
	a) Various brands of hopped malt extract.
	b) UNHOPPED malt extract, and the hopped kind.
I think I have a handle on the from-scratch method (although I'm not
ready to try it, yet).  Basically, what are these prepared "syrups"
really going to produce?  For info, my "starter kit" came with John
Bull hopped amber.

Yes, I know these are probably amazingly naive questions, and I am
going to find out someday through experimentation, but I'd like to
hear others' experiences.

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pete Berger		       ||  ARPA:     peterb at cs.cmu.edu
Professional Student	       ||            Pete.Berger at andrew.cmu.edu
Univ. Pittsburgh School of Law ||  BITNET:   R746PB1P at CMCCVB
Attend this school, not CMU    ||  UUCP: ...!harvard!andrew.cmu.edu!pb1p
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Goldilocks is about property rights.  Little Red Riding Hood is a tale
 of seduction, rape, murder, and cannibalism."  -Bernard J. Hibbits
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------



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End of HOMEBREW Digest #699, 08/12/91
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