---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Guiness-style taps? (John J. Kim)
  mead questions (Bob Fozard)
  re: Pouring Times in Pilsen (Darryl Richman)
  Gushes, Boxes, and Thermometers ("Jean B. Hunter")
  vapor bubbles (peck)
  Oatmeal / enzymes / sugar extract / Chimay / thermometers (Brian Bliss)
  John Bull Extract (lutzen)
  re Vapor bubbles in thermometer (Chip Hitchcock)
  Re: M&F Wheat Extract (John DeCarlo)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #679 (July 15, 1991) (Paul M. Hubel)
  new york places/glass versus plastic (Tony Babinec)
  Re: Vapor bubbles in thermometer (Chris Shenton)
  Re: Malts & Carboys (Chris Shenton)
  John Bull extract (GERMANI)
  NYC pubs -- a brief trip report (Chris Shenton)
  Wort chilling (DAVID KLEIN)
  thermometer breakage (STROUD)
  Hard Cider Mailing List Re-Post (hersh)
  Corn Syrup in Extracts, Brooklyn Lager (hersh)
  Re : Calcium Chloride (Conn Copas)
  Re : Oatmeal stout (Conn Copas)
  Source of calcium chloride (BAUGHMANKR)
  Hot/Cold Gushers: Gas Law ("Randy Pals")
  SG question (Russ Gelinas)
  Carry a Spare (C.R. Saikley)
  The Big Chill (wbt)
  Quebec City pubs & brewpubs (STROUD)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Aug 91 05:33:34 EDT
From: johnjkim at psyche.mit.edu (John J. Kim)
Subject: Guiness-style taps?



 >*The* best place for Guinness in the Boston area is in Cambridge at the
 >Plough & Stars.   It's the prevalent brew drunk there and is always fresh

I, too, agree that the Plough & Stars has the best Guiness in the Boston area.

 >the type of tap, and how it's poured makes a HUGE difference!  Probably #1
 >is the tap type. It's got to be the patented Guinness tap that uses nitrogen.

Does anyone know either how to assemble a Guiness-style tap (e.g., size
of spout; pressure of the gas; percentage of nitrogen and other gases;
etc.) or how to get the real thing?


John Kim



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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 91 10:49:14 PDT
From: rfozard at slipknot.pyramid.com (Bob Fozard)
Subject: mead questions

I've been making homebrew for about 6 months now, 6 batches and have
been happily consuming/sharing the results.  This past weekend I 
brewed a Barkshack Gingermead, based on Papazian's recipe, which is
now fermenting away in the closet at about 70-75 degrees F.  Neither
Miller nor Papazian (to my recollection) discuss mead very much, and
my trip to the library produced very little more.  At what temperature
should this mead be fermented?  At what temperature should it be
aged after bottling?  Do you have any helpful tips about this recipe,
or mead in general?  Thanks much for any info.

- -- 
Bob Fozard      rfozard at pyramid.com


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Date: Fri, 9 Aug 91 06:35:26 -0700
From: darryl at ism.isc.com (Darryl Richman)
Subject: re: Pouring Times in Pilsen

strasser at raj2.tn.cornell.edu (Tom Strasser) asks:
> How about you Darryl, did you get a look at the taps in
> Pilsn?

Nope, I didn't.  I drank at the brewery's restaurant, and didn't see the
taps themselves.  It did take a while for the beer to show, but I was
busy pumping Jaroslav for more information.  At the various pivnices
I drank at, there were no legendary pours;  watching the barman working
was akin to watching a barman at the Oktoberfest or in the Englisher
Gartens, which are renowned tourist traps where you pay outlandish sums
for a liter that apparently doesn't have to come close to the mark on the
glass.  (But it's fun anyways.  I hear that this year it's going to
cost over 8DM for a "liter" of beer at the O'fest.)  Of course, even
at official exchange rates, a half liter in Czechoslovakia was only about
30c, and their glasses were made with a lot of room at the top for
foam.

It is true that ordering a Pils in Germany does take a long time
to pour.  The altbier in Koeln is also very slow.  I have always been
informed to order another one just as soon as the first arrives, and
the same for Guiness.

You can almost do this even with Bud (well, maybe not for 7 minutes,
but you can stretch it out quite a bit) by pouring down the middle.
The European theory is that the CO2 is harsh and unpleasant, and the
way to get rid of it is to have strong turbulence to degas the beer
as much as possible.  The English are ahead in this score, since
they bleed it off before serving.

		--Darryl Richman


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Date:         Mon, 12 Aug 91 08:49:56 EDT
From: "Jean B. Hunter" <MS3Y at CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:      Gushes, Boxes, and Thermometers

Nils Nieuwejaar asks why a beer gushes when warm, not when cold.  Carbon
dioxide, like any other gas, is more soluble in cold liquid than in hot
liquid.  Gushing occurs when two conditions are present:  nucleation sites
for submicroscopic bubbles to form, and supersaturation of the gas, so there
is a driving force for the bubbles to grow.  When your beer is warm, the
supersaturation is greater, so it is more prone to gushing.
   The heavy duty cardboard boxes that we all know and love are called
carry cases, and are sometimes available at bars or bottle/can redemption
centers.  Evidently the boxes are deposit/redemption items (like bottles) for
the bars that use them.  They are lighter than wood and totally enclose the
beer, preventing photochemical damage.  The only drawback vs. wood is that
they will get soggy if your basement floods :-(.
   Re thermometers :  If your thermometer develops gas bubbles in the stem,
put it in a beaker of crushed dry ice (plus acetone if you have any).  The
mercury will contract until all of it is down in the bulb.  Then when it warms
up it will refill the stem from the bottom, with no bubbles.  This works about
75% of the time.  P.S. I hope you don't have any little kids around, since the
small particles of mercury from a busted thermometer will gradually evaporate,
releasing mercury vapor (a mild but chronic toxin) for weeks or months.  What's
more, ingestion of even small amounts of liquid mercury can cause mercury
poisoning.  If the mercury didn't all stay in the case, find a chemical safety
expert (probably  at  the chem department of your local college) to advise you
on cleanup.
   Cheers -- Jean
- --------------------Brewless? Clueless? Join Us!----------------------------
- -----------------------Ithaca Brewers' Union--------------------------------

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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 91 06:12:56 -0700
From: peck at intel7.intel.com
Subject: vapor bubbles

Chad,

  I have been down a similar road, with the same results. I did find the next
time I needed to get things " back together ", I carefully heated the thermo-
meter directly on the stove and it pushed everything back together. I did heat
and cool it several times taking out one bubble at a time and being VERY careful
on the last one!!

				Jim Peck

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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 91 08:47:25 CDT
From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)
Subject: Oatmeal / enzymes / sugar extract / Chimay / thermometers


On Oatmeal Stout:

You HAVE to mash the oatmeal with some malt, preferbaly lager
malt, in order to convert the starches to sugars.  It just
don't work if you don't - beleive me, I tried it.  You'll
wind up with a thick, syrupy wort, but the specific gravity
will not reflect this.  Much of the starch will settle out
int the fermenter.   The resultant beer will have no head
retention.  My batch got infected shortly after bottling,
and good ridance.

- -----------------------------------

What is relationship between the type of malt, degree of
modification, and enzyme content?  Pale ale malt is low
in enzymes; is this due to thin husks, undermodification,
or the kilning process?

- -----------------------------------

On corn sugar in malt extract:

If you buy it dry, it is easy enough to look for the shiny
crystalline corn sugar.  If I'm not completely off base,
pure spray-dried barley malt is much duller, and slightly
more compact than that adulterated with corn sugar.

- -----------------------------------

Has anybody tried culturing chimay ale yeast lately?
My recent attempts have turned out much more sour than
they were just a few months ago.  It it the change in
seasons over in belgium, or perhaps related to the
temperature in my kitchen?

- -----------------------------------

> I found that my thermometer had developed a case of the
> bends.  It had several distinct vapor bubbles in the mercury column,
> making it offset by an unknown amount.

Get it cold enough to where the all of the mercury contracts
back into its little bubble.  Try dry ice, or a liquid nitrogen
freezer.

- -----------------------------------

bb


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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 91 14:12:20 GMT
From: lutzen at phys1.physics.umr.edu (lutzen)
Subject: John Bull Extract

I have used John Bull light and dark, hopped and unhopped, very succesfully.
I have very little choice when buying extract locally, ie. a choice of two.
John Bull was always a bit cheaper than the other brand, and that was my
deciding factor.  I have had no problems with it, but don't follow their
instructions and add the 6 cups of corn sugar!  I tried it once, and after
about three weeks in the bottle, the cidery taste finally went away and 
wasn't too bad after that.

Here is my favorite recipe that I use John Bull in:

              Lutzen's Pleasing Porter
          --------------------------------

        1 - 3.3 lb can      John Bull unhopped Dark
        1 - 3.3 lb bag      Northwestern Amber Malt extract
        1.5 oz              Clusters (boil)
        1 oz                Cascades (finish)

Bring 2 gal water and malt to a boil.  Add  .5 oz Clusters at beginning of
boil, 20 minutes, and 40 minutes.  After 60 min. turn off heat, and add
Cascades.  At this point it was late in the evening, I poured the wort into
my sanitized bottling bucket and brought the quantity up to 5 gals. and stuck
the whole thing in the beverage refrigerator.  Next morning I siphoned off
the wort into the fermentor, leaving all those hop particles behind, pitched
the yeast (Red Star Lager.  Please! NO COMMENTS.  It's hard enough getting
supplies here.) Put on the blow tube, and put the fermenter back in the 
refrigerator.  I had the Temp. set at 45 degrees.  After a week, I replaced
the blow tube with an airlock, and bottled after a month of fermenting.

S.G 1.052
F.G 1.016

Very smooth, nice hop balance, but a bit heavy for a summer drink.  Will
try to save the rest for this fall.   

Karl "who knows what's next" Lutzen



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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 91 10:19:19 EDT
From: cjh at diaspar.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: re Vapor bubbles in thermometer

   Many thermometers have a relief reservoir at the high end. This may be
useful to prevent explosions if the thermometer is heated above its range,
but I have also been told in the labs I used to work in that you can
sometimes drive the mercury up into this reservoir and get the mercury
back in one piece. Try concentrated salt water (at least 12 ounces (weight)
of salt per quart of water), probably in a stainless-steel pot (aluminum
could corrode in boiling salt water).
   The opposite approach, using rubbing alcohol or glycerine in a freezer,
might also work, but it's unlikely your freezer will go low enough (and I'm
not sure what the freezing point of mercury is...).

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Date: Monday, 12 Aug 1991 09:01:04 EDT
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re: M&F Wheat Extract

>From: Bob Devine  09-Aug-1991 0848 <devine at cookie.enet.dec.com>

>> From: "William F. Pemberton" <wfp5p at euclid.acc.Virginia.EDU>

>> M&F Wheat is very nice, but a little dark.  If you use two
>> cans two cans,
>> you will get a brew that is closer to a Dunkelweizen then a
>>plain Weizen.

>I would classify such a higher gravity beer as a "weizenbock".
>A "dunkelweizen" should have some roasted grain flavor/aroma.
>Weizenbocks have the characteristic of bock sweetness but with
>wheat flavor (duh!) and the phenolic nose of weizen yeasts.

I am confused here.  Two cans of malt extract (assuming 1.5 Kg
cans) is the standard size for a regular batch.  How could this
ever be referred to as a "higher gravity beer"?

Yet I see people making such references on a semi-regular basis.
Am I missing something important here?

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
           (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 91 11:30:04 EDT
From: Paul M. Hubel <pmh at media-lab.media.mit.edu>
Subject: Re:  Homebrew Digest #679 (July 15, 1991)



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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 91 10:46:03 CDT
From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec)
Subject: new york places/glass versus plastic

Hello from a Chicago-area homebrewer.  I've been reading the digests
from #697 on and have enjoyed the discussion.

re New York places to visit:  I suppose McSorley's is a must visit,
but just east of it on the same side of the street, you'll find
Brewski's.  The neighborhood is part-Ukrainian, and you're liable to
find a mix of beer lovers and USSR expatriates--thus the name.  I
recall roughly 7-10 beers on tap, including Old Foghorn (!) and a
brown ale from the Brooklyn Brewing Co.  There also is a list of
easily a couple hundred bottled beers from around the world and U.S.,
and the prices weren't bad (for New York).  Brewski's is a tiny place,
with a short bar and a handful of tables, but well worth the visit.

Within walking distance, just south of Washington Square and the NYU
campus, is the Peculier Pub, at Bleecker and LaGuardia.  Again, you'll
find a draft selection of choice German and English beers, including
Fuller's ESB (!) the last time I was there, along with a large bottled
list. 

Finally, at the south end of SoHo, on Thompson Street, is the
Manhattan Brewing Company, a brewpub featuring a number of draft
products.

All over Midtown, you'll find Guiness, Bass, and New Amsterdam.  I
usually try to stop at Rosie O'Grady's (the bar, not the restaurant)
for a Guiness.  It's typically drawn slowly for the creamy head.  Have
you ever seen those bartenders who leave a signature shamrock in the
head?  They say you should be able to float a coin in it!  Rosie's is 
on 7th Avenue at about 50th (north end of Theater District).

re Mr. Berger's question on carboys versus buckets:  the usual reason
given for using a glass carboy rather than plastic is a good one,
namely, the glass is less likely to scratch when being cleaned than
plastic.  The small scratches in plastic might harbor bacteria that
will contaminate your wort in primary.  The real reason to use glass
is so that you can watch your beer!   Seriously, with plastic buckets
you know something's going on in there, but you can't really see it,
and there is a temptation to lift the lid, thereby risking
contamination.  With glass, in addition to seeing how far along your
fermentation is, you get to see the yeast clumps roll around in the
wort!  I've brewed about 25 batches now, and I still find this to be
amongst the most fun parts of the process (next to sipping the beer
and crafting a recipe).

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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 91 11:50:20 EDT
From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Vapor bubbles in thermometer

As to where you can buy a thermometer cheap and quick: I use a darkroom
thermometer, available at any photo store for $10-$20; ok, maybe that's not
cheap enough, *but* they are fast acting bimetal devices (harder to break),
with an easy to read dial. Oh yeah, they glow in the dark, if that helps :-).
Mine is `recalibratable', which means that I can rotate the dial w.r.t the
needel if it ever gets out of whack.

- --
The simplest surrealist act consists of going out into the street,
revolver in hand, and firing at random into the crowd as often as possible.
							-- Andre' Breton, 1929

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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 91 12:11:30 EDT
From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Malts & Carboys

[I may have accidently sent an unfinished copy of this out; if so, I apologize]


On Sun, 11 Aug 91 16:39:21 -0400 (EDT), Peter Glen Berger <pb1p+ at andrew.cmu.edu> said:

Peter> 1) What advantages are gotten out of a carboy rather than bucket?
Peter> Will it make a difference for my first few batches which will
Peter> undoubtably be made with "commercial" hopped malt syrup?  How much
Peter> should I expect to spend on one?  Can I get one anywhere but a
Peter> homebrew shop?

Carboys are easier to keep clean than buckets -- they don't scratch like
plastic -- so there will be less chance of infection. I wouldn't worry
about getting one until you've got the technique of brewing, cooling,
fermeting down; it's easier to pour stuff into a bucket, and if yours has a
spigot on it, easier to hook up the bottling hose. You can pick up a 5
gallon carboy for about $8-12; I got a 7 gallon one from Colonel John for
about $15-20 including shipping. Homebrew shops should have them, and I
picked a couple up from a housewares (dried flowers and stuff) shop.

Peter> 2) Could anyone describe the differences between
Peter> a) Various brands of hopped malt extract.
Peter> b) UNHOPPED malt extract, and the hopped kind.
Peter> I think I have a handle on the from-scratch method (although I'm not
Peter> ready to try it, yet).  Basically, what are these prepared "syrups"
Peter> really going to produce?  For info, my "starter kit" came with John
Peter> Bull hopped amber.

The hopped versus unhopped extract is pretty simple: the manufacturer has
put hops (of *his/her* choosing) into the syrup; same with `stout', `amber'
or whatever-style syrups. You can produce good beer with them, but you give
up some control and freedom.  I like using the unhopped, light (un-dark,
not `lite'!) extracts, then adding my own hops, and coloring/flavoring with
specialty grains. The AHA has a nice, free pamphlet which describes how
much of what grain to use to achieve various styles; I think they call it
something like ``Using specialty Grains''.

By ``from-scratch'' are you talking about all-grain? Stay with the syrups
for a while -- get the techniques down before talking the all-grain plunge.
You'll learn very rapidly, but it's easier if you learn one or two things
at once!

Good luck.

- --
The simplest surrealist act consists of going out into the street,
revolver in hand, and firing at random into the crowd as often as possible.
							-- Andre' Breton, 1929

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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1991 12:20 EST
From: GERMANI%NSLVAX at Venus.YCC.Yale.Edu
Subject: John Bull extract

Greetings,
	Dave Sylvester asked about John Bull extract and I've recently been 
wondering about it also.  I have made a few good beers with JB amber and dark 
(both unhopped), and I'm thinking about using it a lot more.  So I was
thinking about this brewhaha with adjuncts in extract.  According to Zymurgy's 
special issue on malt extracts (V9,No4,1986) the "AHA Definitive Guide/ The 
Lowdown on Malt Extracts" (pp20-23) lists the ingredients for JB's 
light and amber as just "malted barley extract"--the dark has caramel as an 
additional ingredient.  My question is how reliable is this?  In the table 
did they just write down what the label said?  Or were they sneakier than that?
After all they do list the Bittering Units per can; that is certainly not 
listed on the label.  Does anyone know anything about this?
	By the way, some of JB's other extracts are listed as having more than
just malt and caramel.  Some, like the American Light (why bother any way--
pardon my snobbery) have corn syrup, and their Master Class kits have stuff 
like iso-hop extract, coloring, Irish moss, and sodium bicarbonate!  I guess 
they try to do it all for you.
	One thing that seems to be found in a few M&F extracts that I can't 
figure out is d-glucitol.  Anyone out there know what this is (I'm a physicist,
I don't do chemicals)?

G'Day,

	Joe 

Bitnet: GERMANI at YALEVMS
Decnet: 44421::GERMANI


%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

What care I how time advances:
I am drinking ale today.			Poe

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

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Date:         Mon, 12 Aug 91 12:13:56 EDT
From: "Peter J. Stefanski (Technical Assistant)" <STEFANSK%SJUVM at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

When visiting New York, and looking for a great place to taste some truly
exotic brews, one cannot afford to miss one of my old time favorites:

                  B R E W S K Y' S    B E E R   B A R

With over four HUNDRED (400) brews and ales to choose from, it effectively
manages to blow away any competition, including the famed McSoreley's.
The place is small, sawdust on the floor, NO commercial beers (no Bud,
Coors, or any other brands who have the tenacity to call themselves beer
makers), rock-and-roll on the radio, Harley Davidsons rumbling on the
street outside (and sometimes inside too|), all of it in the Village on
E. 7th St.

Rating: ***** Five Stars, by yours truly.

Enjoy, and No, I'm not getting paid for this.


Thanks,

Pete


*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
* Peter J. Stefanski              | Phone: (718) 990-6748               *
* Technical Assistant             | InterNet Address:                   *
* St. John's University           | stefansk%sjuvm at cunyvm.cuny.edu      *
* Grand Central & Utopia Parkways | Bitnet Address:                     *
* Jamaica, New York 11439         | Stefansk at SJUVM                      *
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 91 12:35:22 EDT
From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: NYC pubs -- a brief trip report

Thanks to all who responded to my query. I guess I went to all the pubs
which were mentioned except The White Horse. Here are excerpts from some of
the respondants and my comments:


From: "Harold A. Rosenberg" <rosen at rockies.eecs.umich.edu>

> I was in NY a couple of weeks ago, and a friend took me to McSorleys.
> It is billed as the oldest bar in NY City.  They have two choices of
> beer, light and dark, and you usually order two at a time because they
> are in such a rush that they only fill the glasses half way (they are
> priced accordingly.)  The beer was pretty good, and the atmosphere
> was interesting.  It seemed more the run down type of place that you
> would find in a college town than a NY bar.  It was a definite relief
> from all of the overpriced trendy places that I had seen in NY.

I found the light a bit thin, but quite respectably hopped. The dark was a
bit too sweet for my taste, but decent; my companions preferred the
opposite of me. We stopped in about 5pm on Saturday, and the place was
crowded, so I would avoid it at night.


From: mittle at watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)

> The Manhattan Brewing Company, which is in lower Soho.  I think it's on
> MacDougal at Spring St., but don't quote me.  They brew five or six kinds
> of beer, and serve a decent southern-style barbeque to go with it.  Decent
> food, great beer.

If I recall, they're on Broome just west of Broadway. Didn't try the food,
but they had a *very* good Bavarian style weizenbier.  Their amber was OK
and their stout too sweet, but I had these after the weizen so my opinion
may have been biased. The place? We got attacked by a cockroach, the music
was more suitable to a dance club, and the interior looked like a mutant
hybrid between techno-industrial and wood-brass fernbar. Service was good
and prices were decent.

> The Slaughtered Lamb Pub, on 4th St., west of 6th Ave.  If you knew the
> Peculier before it moved, this is in the same place.  They have a brew
> called Full Moon Ale, which is their own.  Very nice.  They also have ESB
> on tap.

I enjoyed the Full Moon, but thought it was a bit thin -- I preferred the
ESB which seemed more balanced. Their beers are made for them at ``by a
small brewer in upstate New York'' (any guesses? :-). Good selection of
other beers, too. The interior looked inviting, but we sat outside and
watched the crowds go by. Pleasant experience, but their prices were rather
high -- about $4.50 for a pint of Full Moon or ESB.


> I've heard of a place called the White Horse, on Hudson St., but I haven't
> been there yet.

Neither did I -- no comment.

> McSorley's is a tourist trap.  Not worth the trouble, in my mind.

Seemed that way -- we were walking down the street and got accosted by a
carful of Virginians demanding that we tell them where Mecca -- er,
McSorley's -- was.


From: GERMANI%NSLVAX at Venus.YCC.Yale.Edu

> 	I highly recomend McSorleys, although go early in the day so as to 
> avoid the line.  I don't think that it is worth waiting hours in line for.  
> They only serve their own beer (and coke).  The dark is better than the 
> light.  They sell it in small mugs and you must buy two at a time, but 
> that's no problem because you'll probably want to drink more than that.
> 	When McSorleys gets crowded,

[probably about lunch time! :-]

> stagger down the street a block or two 
> to Brewskis.  The last time I was there they had every beer from Anchor 
> Brewery on tap, as well as a good selection of bottled beer.  If you 
> haven't had Liberty Ale on tap you must, its heavenly.

I really liked Brewski's -- large selection (100-150?) of interesting beers
(eg: a bunch of Belgians), but no homebrew. Also, if you're heading to NYC,
Brewskis has got a Christmas in August special: all beers at half price,
which brings an $9 kriek down to less than I can buy it in the store. The
deal runs through the end of August.


Prost!

- --
The simplest surrealist act consists of going out into the street,
revolver in hand, and firing at random into the crowd as often as possible.
							-- Andre' Breton, 1929

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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 91 09:41 MST
From: DAVID KLEIN <PAKLEIN at ccit.arizona.edu>
Subject: Wort chilling


    Hi

     Recently there has been a discussion of using ice to cool the wort,
and this included a comment on using ice that was colder than 0 degrees.
What about using something even colder. Liquid nitrogen.  at -177 C (if I
remember correctly) A couple of liters should cool the wort right down,
and talk about cold break... Further, I can't believe anything could live
it it (and if it could, I doubt clorine would do anything to it anyway)
and instead of forming water, you get nitrogen, which as perviously stated
will just bubble back out.

     Most people here are at a research lab or university, and thus the
stuff should not be to hard to get (if you can't find it, what about dry ice).
It's cheap (<1.00 a liter usually).

     Has anyone tried this? With what results?

David

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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1991 11:45 EST
From: STROUD%GAIA at sdi.polaroid.com
Subject: thermometer breakage

Chad Epifanio writes:

>The end of the case made contact with a palm frond, and the resulting shock
> reduced the thermometer to a mass of glass shards and liquid metal.

First of all, I hope that you are mistaken and that the liquid in the
thermometer was either toluene or alcohol based (i.e., it was red).
 If it was silvery, it was mercury.  In that case I hope that you
broke it outside, because if you broke it inside your home and the mercury bulb
shattered, you have a serious problem on your hands.  Although it may not look
like much, that mercury is a health hazard.  If dispersed on the floor
in a room, the vapors from it can reach a dangerous levels.  You should
consider getting a mercury absorption kit (available from lab suppliers like
Aldrich Chemical Co. or Fisher Scientific) and get that stuff out of there.

The proper way to get rid of the bubbles in a thermometer column is to immmerse
the bulb in a solution cold enough to contract all of the liquid back down into
the bulb.  Depending on exactly what kind of thermometer you are using, a
salt/ice bath may be enough (Calcium chloride/ice gets colder than sodium
chloride/ice).  For low temperature thermometers, one may be forced to go to a
dry ice/acetone bath).

This should be a warning to all of you homebrewers out there.  DO NOT use a
mercury thermometer in your brewing.  It is dangererous and will cause you
problems if it breaks (which it will eventually).  At the very least you will
be forced to dump a mash or wort if it breaks in them.  Get yourself a
toluene or alcohol thermometer.  Even better, get a digital thermometer.  They
are more accurate, are easier to read, and won't break when you drop them.
Cole-Palmer (1-800-323-4340) sells a very nice one for $29.50.  It is a
solid-state electronic thermometer that reads temperatures from  -58 to 338
degrees F.  It has a detachable general-purpose stainless steel probe that is
5-3/16" long.  It comes with a 1.4V battery that lasts for 1000 hours.
Accuracy is +/- 2 degrees up to 290 degrees.  They take Visa or MC and there is
no minimum order (there is also a shipping charge).   I have one that I've been
using for three years and the only problem I've had with it is that I had to
clean the battery contacts once.  I highly recommend it.  Other lab suppliers
offer similar digital thermometers.

Steve Stroud 

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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 91 12:13:55 EDT
From: hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Hard Cider Mailing List Re-Post



Thought I'd re-post this in case anyone missed it the first time.
Some of the people who I said I'd add automatically (people who requested
cider info directly from me a few months back) your addresses bounced.
Rather than post those names here, just look for mailings from 
cider at expo.lcs.mit.edu. If you don't get anything inside the next 2 weeks or
so (it will take time for traffic to pick up on the list) then please 
send a subscribe message. Sorry about that, but I haven't kept all the bounce
messages and I'd rather not take up too much more HBD space with administrivia.

So here it is again....


I am pleased to announce the creation of a Hard Cider Mailing List, with me as
it's humble organizer.

To get on the list please do the following:
1) Send Mail to cider-request@ expo.lcs.mit.edu
2) Put the word Subscribe on the subject line
3) Include your preferred e-mail address in the body of the message, I don't
   want to rely on the included reply address

To get off the list or stop multiple copies:
1) Send mail to cider-request@ expo.lcs.mit.edu
2) Put the word unsubscribe on the subject line
3) Include the e-mail address to which the cider list has been getting sent
   in the body of the message (again I don't want to rely on reply addresses)

To submit to the list:
1) Send mail to cider at expo.lcs.mit.edu

Thnigs to remember:
1) This is an echo'ed list not a daily digest
2) There is a human processing subscribe/unsubscribe requests
3) Please no flaming!! Let's try to keep this on a par with the HBDs quality

Enjoy.

	JaH

PS Presently this offer is only being made available to HBD Subscribers and not
the newsgroups. This is in order to try to keep the discussion level high, and
the traffic volume manageable.


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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 91 13:32:28 EDT
From: hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Corn Syrup in Extracts, Brooklyn Lager



Well this ain't about John Bull, but a few years back there was a real
inexpensive extract that used Corn Syrup in it. I think it was called American
Eagle and came out of one of the Carolinas. I used it a few times, but didn't
like it that much, then I looked at the label and discovered why, it had Corn
Syrup in it. I found it OK to use as a fortifier for building up the gravity of
other recipes without modfiying the taste too much, but I stopped using it as a
base for recipes.

Won't swear to this but I think as with many other Northeast beers, Brooklyn
Lager is brewed under contract by you guessed it.... F.X. Matt's in Utica, the
brewery that has made a quite a killing on this contract brewing scheme.

Dry Malt extracts & Bread. Well yes & no. Dry malt extracts were at one time
made exclusively for the Bread making industry (pre-prohibition). During
prohibition the way a lot of breweries remained in business was to make Extract
Syrups for "breadmaking." Of course records show that during prohibition extract
production went up to 10X what the Bread making industry actually used. You
guess where the rest went. In recent years many extract makers have cropped up
that produce their product exclusively for the homebrewing market. In particular
Alexanders is one of these, though I suppose many of the British & German brands
are as well. I think Blue Ribbon was probably an example of extract brewed for
bakers interests, not brewers, but things have changed a lot since the days of
Blue Ribbon.


 - JaH


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Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1991 05:16:25 +0000
From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas at loughborough.ac.uk>
Subject: Re : Calcium Chloride

Chris Swingley writes

>Where does one get Calcium Chloride?  I want it to
>eliminate the 500-770 ppm of bicarbonate.  Boiling
>the water after addition of enough CACl ought to 
>remove most of the carbonate, and the
>Chlorine should evaporate upon boiling.  

Pardon me if my chemistry is mistaken, but I can't see the above being
effective. Your water contains alkaline buffers, namely, calcium
bicarbonate and calcium carbonate. The latter is largely insoluble, but
will still react with acidic mashes and worts. One can convert the
bicarbonate to the carbonate by boiling, and then eliminate most of the
carbonate by cooling and racking. IMHO, this method is tedious and not
completely effective anyway. So chemical removal is required.

In theory, the bicarbonate could be precipitated by adding some soluble
salt, XY, such that X-bicarbonate is insoluble. I can't think of a good
example offhand, but the salt would probably involve a medium-heavy metal,
which could be dangerous. The best method is to add just enough of a weak
acid (eg, citric or lactic) so that all the buffer is consumed in the
reaction. I have found that a quarter teaspoon of citric acid per gallon
will remove about 160 ppm carbonate. I don't completely trust water
authority figures, because these are often averaged over wide areas. To be
sure, you really need to titrate your tap water using some acid-base
indicator such as methyl orange. In other words, add small amounts of acid
incrementally to a measured volume of water until the colour change
indicates that the solution has just become acidic. You could use pH papers
instead of the indicator, but the results will not be as precise.  

Adding calcium chloride will precipitate nothing, because the metal 'X' is
the same as that already present. This method will increase the chloride
ion content, which is not the same as the chlorine content. Chloride ions
are said to improve the smoothness of sweet, dark beers, and the most
common source is table salt (sodium chloride). Salt substitutes such as
potassium, calcium and magnesium chlorides are often available from
health-food shops or pharmacists. Watch out for additives ! 
 

Conn V Copas                                   tel : (0509)263171  ext 4164
Loughborough University of Technology          fax : (0509)610815
Computer-Human Interaction Research Centre            
Leicestershire  LE11 3TU                    e-mail -    
G Britain                         (Janet):C.V.Copas at uk.ac.lut  
                     (Internet):C.V.Copas%lut.ac.uk at nsfnet-relay.ac.uk







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Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1991 05:16:25 +0000
From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas at loughborough.ac.uk>
Subject: Re : Oatmeal stout

I can only agree that rolled oats are better than steel cut, on the grounds
that the whole oats will contain oat germ, which is a source of oil and
could affect head retention. Some writers also claim the oil can give a
rancid/bitter taste, although I haven't tested this personally.

After observing my porridge as it was cooking one morning, it did occur to
me that all that lovely viscosity might do wonders for a beer's head
retention. So I used rolled oats as an adjunct in the next lager mash.
Flavour was good; a sort of smooth graininess. Clarity was terrible, even
after employing a half-hour protein digestion rest and testing for starch
end-point. I concluded that I had encountered a protein haze of fairly
large proportions, which probably explains why oatmeal is traditionally
reserved for stouts. Incidentally, the haze was responsive to isinglass
finings.

Some questions for any biochemists out there : would a longer protein rest,
or the addition of extra digestion enzymes, cure the haze problem ? Or
might it defeat the original purpose of introducing more gum-like
substances into the mash ?   

Conn V Copas                                   tel : (0509)263171  ext 4164
Loughborough University of Technology          fax : (0509)610815
Computer-Human Interaction Research Centre            
Leicestershire  LE11 3TU                    e-mail -    
G Britain                         (Janet):C.V.Copas at uk.ac.lut  
                     (Internet):C.V.Copas%lut.ac.uk at nsfnet-relay.ac.uk







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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1991 14:57 EDT
From: BAUGHMANKR at CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU
Subject: Source of calcium chloride

>From: Chris Swinglet (ez005142 at pollux.ucdavis.edu)

>Where does one get Calcium Chloride?

Calcium Chloride is the prime ingredient in salt which is marketed as
"lite".  You can find some brand or other in your local grocery store.

My purely volative random access memory says that ice cream salt (rock
salt) is another kind of salt as well.  But it's taken too many
voltage surges and that info is even beyond Norton's at the moment.

Kinney Baughman                  |  Beer is my business and
baughmankr at conrad.appstate.edu   |  I'm late for work

P.S.

Who we gonna pick on next?


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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 91 08:25:40 CDT
From: "Randy Pals" <uunet!inland.com!pals at uunet.UU.NET>
Subject: Hot/Cold Gushers: Gas Law



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Date:    Mon, 12 Aug 1991 15:39:47 EDT
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: SG question

Ok, here's an odd question:  Which would have a higher specific gravity,
wort that was mashed at low temp (ie. highly fermentable), or wort mashed
at a high temp (ie. less fermentable)?  Both were converted to completion.
Your first thought is probably that they are the same.  But try thinking of 
specific gravity in terms of thickness of the fluid, rather than the amount of
dissolved solids.  The high temp. mash will have larger molecules (on the
whole) than the low temp. mash.  Will these larger molecules make the solution
"thicker", ie. have a higher SG?  Just what is specific gravity measuring,
anyway?

Russ G.

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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 91 14:09:34 PDT
From: grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: Carry a Spare


From: chad at mpl.UCSD.EDU (Chad Epifanio)

>While
>checking my equipment, I found that my thermometer had developed a case of the
>bends.  It had several distinct vapor bubbles in the mercury column, making it
>offset by an unknown amount.

(Stuff about swinging the thermometer overhead deleted....)

>I heard
>a distinct(you guessed it) crash.  The end of the case made contact with a 
>palm frond, and the resulting shock reduced the thermometer to a mass of 
>glass shards and liquid metal.  

Sooner or later, most brewers experience the distinct (you guessed it) crash 
of a thermometer or hydrometer biting the dust. This usually happens when you 
need it most, i.e. while brewing. One thing you can do to minimize the impact 
of the distinct (you guessed it) crash is to simply carry a spare. If an
instrument breaks when you need it, you retaliate by whipping out the backup
copy and proceeding undauntedly. Then you have until the next time you brew to 
replace the spare. Since you'll probably be visiting your supplier before
brewing again anyway, there's no additional hassle.

I've kept an extra hydrometer and thermometer handy for about four years now
and in that time I've broken one thermometer. That one experience convinced
me that I'd always carry a spare.

Now if they'd just make them with flat sides instead of round, you could 
place them flat on a table and they wouldn't roll off!

CR

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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 91 16:40:38 EDT
From: wbt at cbema.att.com
Subject: The Big Chill


jupiter!sewer!psrc at abars.att.com writes:

> From: kswanson at casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Kurt Swanson)
> 
> Assume you have five gallons of 100C wort (just boiled). How much ice
> will it take to get the temp to pitchable temp?  Well, you need to drop
> five gallons by 80 degrees C.  If I am correct in remembering that
> water's heat of fusion is 80, then an equal amount of 0C ice will be
> needed to lower the temp of some amount of 100C water.  Thus, you would
> need equal volumes, which is quite a dilution of the original wort.

This is correct, but as Kurt noted, there is more to the equation.
We can make a pretty accurate prediction, in fact, with just a bit of
guessswork.

I'm not going to go through all the math here; suffice that the heat needed
to change the temperature of a substance (Ice, water, or wort in this case)
is the material's mass times its specific heat times the change in 
temperature.  Water has a specific heat of 1 cal/g-C as a liquid, about
half that as a solid.  For ice to melt, it must undergo a phase change,
requiring energy amounting to its latent heat of fusion times its mass.
The latent heat is 80 cal/g.

The specific heat for the wort is the tough part. I found one
reference which states that a 4% solution of cane sugar in water has a
specific heat of .756 cal/g-C, but I find that a suspiciously large change;
caveat emptor.  Don't forget that the specific heat will be slightly
different depending on the type of wort you have; a barley wine wort will
have a different value than a light pilsener.  However, as the numbers will
later show, the sensitivity to specific heat is not *that* great...

OK, assume a spherical football... no, wait, that's another story.  Ah...
assume you just pulled the boiler off the burner, so you have hot wort at
100C.  You want to dilute this with ice to get 5 gallons of 72F (22C) wort,
cold-broken and ready for the yeast.  Also assume ice at 0 F, which is 
typical for American freezers.  Then:  

If the specific heat (Cp, my poor attempt at c-sub-p) of the wort
concentrate is 1 cal/g-C (like pure water), a 5-gallon solution at 72F
would be obtained by mixing 7.7 kg (8.5 liters) of ice with 11.3 kg (3
gallons) of boiling wort.  So instead of the original estimate of 
50/50, we've got something more like 60% wort / 40% ice.

For a wort-concentrate Cp of 0.9, that becomes 11.7kg (3.1 gallons) of 
wort and 7.3kg (8.4 liters) of ice.

For Cp = 0.8, it's 12.3kg (3.2 gallon) of wort and 6.7 kg (7.4 liters)
of ice.  

For Cp = 0.7, it's 12.8kg (3.3 gal) of wort and 6.2kg (6.9 liters) of
ice.


I'd guess the specific heat at something around .9 to 1.0, so I'd say that
about 8 liters of ice would do the job, and you want to have 3 to 3.2
gallons in the boil.  The initial gravity of the full 5-gal wort should be
about 60% of that of what was in the boiler; e.g., if your boiler gravity
(mind you, corrected to 60 F!) is 1.080, the 5-gal wort gravity will
be 1.048 (0.6* .080 = .048).

Oh, if anyone's wondering "Why does this dweeb keep mentioning gallons of
wort and liters of ice?", it's because I figure everyone can picture 2
liters; it's the size of a plastic pop bottle.   It takes four blocks of ice
that size to cool three gallons of boiling wort.

 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Bill Thacker	AT&T Network Systems - Columbus      wbt at cbnews.att.com


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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1991 16:02 EST
From: STROUD%GAIA at sdi.polaroid.com
Subject: Quebec City pubs & brewpubs

I'm going to Quebec City in a few weeks.  Never having been there, I wondered 
if anyone knows of any especially good bars/pubs/restaurants to visit.  A good 
beer selection is important, of course.  

Also, I believe that there is one brewpub there, called L'Inox???  Anyone ever 
been there?

Thanks.

Steve Stroud

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #700, 08/13/91
*************************************
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