---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  alcohol by weight and volume ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Kegging in mini kegs (Eric Pepke)
  Re: Sulfites (Ted Stefanik)
  Re: Cleaning Glass Carboys (Ted Stefanik)
  what is high gravity/weizen style definitions (Tony Babinec)
  Re: carboys, buckets, and scratches (Chris Shenton)
  Water treatment with CaCl2 (Ken Giles)
  Re: Time to pour (mll)
  Re: Time to pour (mll)
  Lambic Critters (Martin A. Lodahl)
  Wort chilling, etc. ("Dr. John")
  Nordic Brew (nnieuwej)
  lemon in weizen (Brian Smithey)
  Calculating Alcohol Content, East Coast Homebrew Stores ("Roger Deschner")
  Crappy malt extracts (Ron Rader)
  Melting solidified wort agar? (Chris Shenton)
  liquid yeast question(s) (Greg Pryzby)
  detecting glass grenades (Chip Hitchcock)
  Bicarbonate (ez005142)
  Re:  Malt Extracts (Randy Casey)
  Chill Haze (LEITH  Graham Arthur)
  All grain pale ale malt selections (joshua.grosse)
  Harvesting and storing hops (cj)
  Quebec City pubs & brewpubs (STROUD) (Tim Carlson)
  USENET Newsgroup Rec.Crafts.Brewing is on the air ("a.e.mossberg")
  German 2-row (Andy Leith)
  Sulfite Discussion (MIKE LIGAS)
  MALTING (Jack Schmidling)
  Re : Boots yeast (Conn Copas)


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[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Aug 91 09:53:06 EDT
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu>
Subject: alcohol by weight and volume

Clearly, these formulas are approximations, valid at low
concentration.  I'll address the second, as it is subject to fewer
guesses.

%V(alc) = 100 * V(alc) / V(alc+water)
%W(alc) = 100 * W(alc) / W(alc+water)
1/SG(alc) = 1.25 = V(alc) / W(alc)
%V(alc) / %W(alc) = V(alc) / W(alc) * W(alc+water) / V(alc+water)
	= 1.25 * W(alc+water) / V(alc+water)

Now, if the amount of alcohol is small compared to the amount of water,
the second fraction is approximately 1.  Assume the total weight is 1,
the weight of the alcohol is wa, and therefore, the weight of the water
is 1 - wa.

	W(alc+water) / V(alc+water) = 1 / (1.25 * wa + (1 - wa)) =
		1 / (1 + .25*wa) = 1 / (1 + .25 * %W(alc) / 100)

For a 4% by weight brew, this amounts to

	1 / 1.01 = .99

so the true percentage of alcohol by volume, instead of being 5% is
4.95%.  Not really a measurable difference, at least with HB equipment.


Return to table of contents


Date:    Fri, 16 Aug 1991 10:33:33 EDT
From: PEPKE at SCRI1.SCRI.FSU.EDU (Eric Pepke)
Subject: Kegging in mini kegs

I "kegged" a batch of bitter in a couple of mini kegs a few weeks ago.
(By mini kegs, I mean those 5 liter cans that are roughly shaped like 
kegs and have a stopper with a 1 cm hole in the top.)  It worked fine.  I 
just santitized the can, poured the beer in, and plugged it up with one of
the minimalist taps.  They hissed and bubbled a bit through the imperfect
seal over the next couple of weeks.  Last night, I tried drinking the first
results.  I used a CO2 tap designed for the kegs inserted not quite to the
bottom to avoid picking up sludge.  The beer was not carbonated much at all,
which was desirable, as this was supposed to be a bitter.  In contrast, the
same beer bottled (with bulk priming) was a borderline gusher.

The total annoyance factor, though, was not much less than bottling.

Eric Pepke                                     INTERNET: pepke at gw.scri.fsu.edu
Supercomputer Computations Research Institute  MFENET:   pepke at fsu
Florida State University                       SPAN:     scri::pepke
Tallahassee, FL 32306-4052                     BITNET:   pepke at fsu

Disclaimer: My employers seldom even LISTEN to my opinions.
Meta-disclaimer: Any society that needs disclaimers has too many lawyers.

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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 91 10:44:47 EDT
From: ted at evi.com (Ted Stefanik)
Subject: Re: Sulfites

Spencer W. Thomas writes:
> Unfortunately for those sensitive to sulfites, a certain amount can be
> produced during fermentation.  This is why almost all (in fact all that
> I've seen) wines are labelled "contains sulfites".  I don't know if
> this is also true of beer (I haven't seen such labels on beers), maybe
> it's something in grapes that does it.

I was under the impression that the sulfites were added to the wine must before
fermentation and during racking.  Sulfites are added in the form of SO2 gas, or
as sodium metabisulfite or potassium metabisulfite.  Sulfites are added to kill
stray bacteria and yeasts in the must.

I've never heard that SO2 can be produced by fermentation and I'm quite suspect
of this claim.  The reason that most wine bottles are labelled as "contains
sulfites" is that most wine makers use sulfites to control the quality of the
product; the practice is near universal.

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 16 Aug 91 11:03:35 EDT
From: ted at evi.com (Ted Stefanik)
Subject: Re: Cleaning Glass Carboys

>From GC Woods:

> If there is some gadget I'm missing to clean carboys, please e-mail me!

I clean my carboys as follows.  It never fails to get them 100% clean.

1) Fill the carboy with hot water to within 2 inches of the top.
2) Top off with chlorine bleach
3) Let stand for several hours.  You should see the scum bubble off the sides!
4) Brush the carboy thoroughly with an appropriately sized carboy brush.
   (Carboy brushes of various sizes are available from your local homebrew
    supply store).
5) Rinse the carboy thoroughly with a jet-stream type bottle washer
   (also available at your homebrew supply store).


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 16 Aug 91 10:29:33 CDT
From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec)
Subject: what is high gravity/weizen style definitions

A few digests ago, someone posed the question of what's a high-gravity
beer.  I think of a starting gravity of about 1050 or so as the
cutoff.  Why?

If you think of the common styles, here are some gravity ranges and
styles.

1030s       berliner weisse, mild, ordinary bitter
1040s       brown ale, kolsch, alt, standard pale ale, standard pilsner
1045-1055   munich helles, munich dark, vienna, flanders brown, 
            california common beer 
1050-1060   dortmund, maerzen
1060+       trappist, old ale, bock, doppelbock, imperial stout, etc.

Beers in the 1030s are truly session beers.  You can have 2 or 3 pints
for lunch (food optional) and go back to work and still expect to
function.  Beers in the 1040s and 1050s are progressively heftier.  By
the time you get to the 1060s, alcohol is pronounced and even becomes
part of the expected flavor and aroma profile.

A related reason for considering 1050 the cutoff is that high-gravity
worts, with 1050 or so being the cutoff, require progressively greater
hops due to inefficient hop utilization.  See Ramsey's article in the
special hop issue of Zymurgy for the formula including the adjustment.

An interesting related point is this.  When I brewed extract beers,
I'd add the malt to a couple of gallons of water, and top off to 5
gallons in the fermenter.  I assume this is how many homebrewers do
it, given the expense of large brewpots.  In this situation, the
couple of gallons of wort are a high-gravity wort.  For example, if
the wort when topped off with 2.5 gallons of water becomes 5 gallons
of 1050-gravity wort, then the original 2.5 gallons of wort before
topping off must have been 1100-gravity wort.  By all rights, hop
additions should take this into account!  Needless to say, when I
thought of hop additions in the 1/4-1/2 ounce increments the book
recipe called for, this point was not known or appreciated.

Regarding Weizens, here are style attributes taken from a recent
Zymurgy which presented definitions of the styles.

                      weizen     dunkelw   weizenbock
starting gravity   1040-1050   1045-1055   1066-1080
alcohol volume      4.5-5.0%    4.5-6.0%    6.5-7.5%
IBUs                  8-  14     10-  15     10-  15
SRM range             3-   8     17-  22      7-  30

So, according to these style definitions, a dunkel weizen is a dark
weizen with perhaps a slightly higher starting gravity, while a
weizenbock is definitely a bock in starting gravity while affording
the brewer much leeway in color.

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 16 Aug 91 11:07:49 EDT
From: Chris Shenton <chris at endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: carboys, buckets, and scratches

On 15 Aug 91 16:41:49 EDT (Thu), GC Woods <gcw at garage.att.com> said:

>From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
>Carboys are easier to keep clean than buckets -- they don't scratch like
>plastic -- so there will be less chance of infection. I wouldn't worry

Geoff> You must be kidding. Maybe I am not using the correct type of brush or 
Geoff> something, but I can wash out a food grade plastic bucket with no
Geoff> problem (and no scratches yet), but have a very difficult time getting
Geoff> all of the stuck junk off the inside of a glass carboy.

No scratches yet *that*you*can*see*. I usually fill the carboy with hot
water and bleach and let it soak overnight if there's serious scum in it.

Geoff> If there is some gadget I'm missing to clean carboys, please e-mail me!

A long handled bottle-type brush helps too, once the soaking has softened
up the goo. [such technical terms!]

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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 91 09:18:46 PDT
From: keng at ic.MENTORG.COM (Ken Giles)
Subject: Water treatment with CaCl2

George fix states (in Principles of Brewing Science, p.20) that bicarbonate 
(HCO3) combines with calcium ions to form calcium carbonate (CaCO3), water, and 
carbon dioxide when heat is applied and aeration is performed. Calcium carbonate 
is precipitated. Here's the formula:


                       heat
   Ca(+2) + 2HCO3(-) --------> CaCO3 + H2O + CO2
                     aeration

He further states that the calcium content must be above ~10 mg/l to facilitate
this reaction.

As for the resulting cloride ions, I can't find a place where he mentions their 
effect. _Clorine_ is a problem because it causes formation of clorophenol 
compounds, which adversely affect flavor. Cloride ions will not cause this 
problem. Since NaCl (and hence, cloride ions) is a common additive in pale ales, 
it seems like low risk to have some extra cloride hanging around. Someone was 
concerned about the resulting saltiness. Doesn't this require presence of sodium 
as well?

George also says on p.13 that "Calcium cloride is finding increasing favor in
water treatment programs because it does not have sulfur ions." Its useful to
keep in mind that the intended audience for Principles of Brewing Science is
the microbrewery industry as well as the homebrew crowd.


P.S. If you're trying to achieve a target concentration of calcuim ions,
note that calcium cloride is really (according to George, p.12)
CaCl2 + 2H2O. This will affect your molecular weight calculations.

kg.

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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 91 11:19:47 -0500
From: mll at aio.jsc.nasa.gov
Subject: Re: Time to pour

Bill Thacker writes:
>Michael Bass writes:
>
>> I had the good fortune to attend a conference in Berlin, Germany.
>> One of the interesting features of the way they
>> server beers: Apparently the length of time it takes to pour a beer is
>> a measure of the quality of the beer and the bartender.  It takes
>> anywhere from 5 to 10 minutes to poor a good beer.  (You have to wait
>> for the head to die down before you can continue to fill the glass!)
>
>Coincidentally, a friend of mine, in a telephone call Sunday night, 
>mentioned discovering a bar in Chicago which served Guinness on tap.
>He marvelled that it took several minutes to pour the beer, because of the
>foaming, and asked me what that meant.  >
>
>Several possibilities dawned on me, including the "new keg" foaminess
>mentioned here, but he assured me that he'd investigated for a sufficiently
>long time to see the keg well on its way toward emptiness. 8-)
>
>Also, his description of the flavor didn't match with my own very well,
>giving me to wonder if this bar might be serving the *real* draught Guinness 
>as found in Ireland (it *is* an Irish pub).

I worked for a 

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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 91 11:25:07 -0500
From: mll at aio.jsc.nasa.gov
Subject: Re: Time to pour

Bill Thacker writes:
>Michael Bass writes:
>
>> I had the good fortune to attend a conference in Berlin, Germany.
>> One of the interesting features of the way they
>> server beers: Apparently the length of time it takes to pour a beer is
>> a measure of the quality of the beer and the bartender.  It takes
>> anywhere from 5 to 10 minutes to poor a good beer.  (You have to wait
>> for the head to die down before you can continue to fill the glass!)
>
>Coincidentally, a friend of mine, in a telephone call Sunday night, 
>mentioned discovering a bar in Chicago which served Guinness on tap.
>He marvelled that it took several minutes to pour the beer, because of the
>foaming, and asked me what that meant.  >
>
>Several possibilities dawned on me, including the "new keg" foaminess
>mentioned here, but he assured me that he'd investigated for a sufficiently
>long time to see the keg well on its way toward emptiness. 8-)
>
>Also, his description of the flavor didn't match with my own very well,
>giving me to wonder if this bar might be serving the *real* draught Guinness 
>as found in Ireland (it *is* an Irish pub).

I worked for a restaurant in Munich about 10 years ago.  We had 3 kinds of
beer, a normal helles, a Pilsner, and Guinness.  The helles poured in a few
seconds.  The Guinness took about 10-12 minutes to pour, and the Pilsner
took almost 15!!!  That was not unusual either as when we would drink
Pilsner at other places, we would generally order the next round just as
the last round we ordered was being served.

=====================================================================
Mark L. Littlefield               Automation and Robotics Division
internet: mll at aio.jsc.nasa.gov       Intelligent Systems Branch
USsnail:  Lockheed Engineering and Sciences 
          2400 Nasa Rd 1 / MS 19            
          Houston, TX 77058-3711

"The closest night table, when I tried to open it, nearly bit my hand
off...No, that wasn't at all how furniture was suppose to behave; there was
clearly something wrong with this agriculture." - Tichy: The Star Diaries
====================================================================

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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 91 9:15:26 PDT
From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at PacBell.COM>
Subject: Lambic Critters

In HOMEBREW Digest #703, Andy Leith asked:

> Does anybody know of somewhere I can get hold of the cultures 
> necessary to make a kriek, for less than the $45 that it costs from 
> UC Davis?

Contact Mike Sharp (msharp at hawk.ulowell.edu).  He has virtually all
of them.  The two "big hitters" as identified by Jean-Xavier
Guinard, Pediococcus damnosus and Brettanomyces bruxellensis, come
from a lab "of awsome repute" that refers to remain nameless, and
are marvelously vigorous and apparently quite pure.

= Martin A. Lodahl   			Pacific*Bell Systems Analyst =
= malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM       Sacramento, CA       916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =


Return to table of contents


Date:         Fri, 16 Aug 91 12:29:37 EDT
From: "Dr. John" <JELJ at CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:      Wort chilling, etc.

In HBD #701 Steve Anthony asked about a wort chilling system based on ice water

This is the sort of system I have employed since I started doing all-grain,
full-mash beers.  I opted for a somewhat simpler design though.  I use a
coil (20 or 25', I can't remember which) of 1/4" copper tubing immersed in a 5
gallon bucket of ice water.  I won't bore you with the details now, anyone who
is interested can get in touch for a more in-depth description.  This system
chills 5 gallons of wort in about 20 or 25 minutes, and gives me a very good
cold break; the wort goes in boiling hot and very clear and emerges cool
(somewhere in the 60's (F)) and lokking as muddy as the Mississippi.
By incorporating both parts of my Zapap lauter tun into the
chilling system, I kept the expense to a minimum.  In addition to the coil of
copper tubing the only extras I needed to put this together were an extra 5
gallon bucket (food grade of course, and thick enough so that it doesn't
distort when filled with boiling wort), a couple short lengths of racking
tubing, and a couple little metal hose clamps.  I'm not sure, but I suspect
that this method uses less water than either a counterflow or an immersion
chiller.

On another topic, Geoff Woods, in HBD #703, says that he thinks carboys are
more difficult to clean than plastic fermenters.

Carboys aren't really all that difficult to clean, if you have patience and
a carboy brush.  I usually rinse mine several times to loosen as much of the
gunk as I can, then fill them completely with a bleach solution and let them
soak for several days.  This usually loosens most of the rest of the gunk and
the carboy brush will get whatever is left.  Of course you can omit the soak
and have at it with the carboy brush immediately after the carboy is emptied.
One indispensable item, at least for me since I haven't come up with the
bucks for a keg system yet, is one of those jet bottle washers.  They really
speed up the rinsing of bleach-soaked bottles, and put out a forceful enough
spray to do a nice job on carboys too.

Mitch Evans, in HBD #702, related the sad tale of an exploding bottle and its
nasty effect on his thumb.

I hope things are on the mend Mitch.  You might consider getting a kit to do
a reducing sugar test.  I have some of the Clinitest tablets that are sold
by drug stores to diabetics.  There was an article in Zymurgy, a couple years
ago, by Nancy Vineyard on using this kit to test beer for reducing sugars.
I'm not sure about her suggested procedure, seems that she doesn't use
enough beer to get a good test, but I haven't gotten around to calibrating
the thing myself yet, haven't felt a pressing need as I haven't had any
explosions.  This sort of test, if properly calibrated, should be more reliable
than the hydrometer and a prayer method that seems to be so commonly used.

Al Edwards, in #703, raises a question about formulae for approximating alcohol
content based on attenuation.

These formulae, or something very much like them, come from Papazian, and
probably elsewhere.  Now, while they obviously break down for extreme values
on the high end they are probably accurate enough for approximating alcohol
contents in the ranges we normally achieve with our beers.  If you want
something more technical try Noonan's "Brewing Lager Beer" in which you will
find a description of how to go about determining real attenuation, as opposed
to apparent attenuation, and a bunch of related stuff.  As for me, I'll stick
to the approximation I can get using my hydrometer and calculator.  Even though
the relationships may not be linear the approximation seems good enough, we are
probably talking about some pretty small approximation errors here.

Ooogy wawa,

Dr. John

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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 91 12:40:35 -0400
From: nnieuwej at pooh.bowdoin.edu
Subject: Nordic Brew

Does anybody know anything about Scandinavian beers?  I'm particularly
interested in anything Norwegian brews that may be commercially available
in this country.

 -Nils


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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 91 10:17:29 PDT
From: smithey at esosun.css.gov (Brian Smithey)
Subject: lemon in weizen

I've seen mention in Jackson's writing that Bavarian weizen is
traditionally served with lemon, but have never been able to
determine how it's CONSUMED.  Is the lemon wedge left on the
glass for aroma only, or is the juice squeezed into the beer,
or the lemon intermittently sucked on, etc. ?  Perhaps some
of you who have been there and had the real thing can help
me out, I've brewed some weizen and would like to try some
with lemon.

Thanks,
Brian
- --
Brian Smithey
smithey at esosun.css.gov  -  uunet!seismo!esosun!smithey

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Date: 16 August 1991 12:21:41 CDT
From: "Roger Deschner" <U52983 at UICVM.uic.edu>
Subject: Calculating Alcohol Content, East Coast Homebrew Stores

In HBD 703, Alan Edwards asked:

> If you don't know the correct equations, what do you use in practice?

I use Dr. Bob Technical's Amazing Wheel of Wort. You just dial in how
much of what you used to make it, and all the numbers are right there on
the wheel. Get one from your local homebrew supply shop.

and somebody else asked about East Coast homebrew suppliers. I've used
The Modern Brewer, in Cambridge, Mass. The phone number is easy to
remember - 1-800-SEND-ALE.

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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 91 11:46:26 EDT
From: rlr%bbt at mcnc.org (Ron Rader)
Subject: Crappy malt extracts

  Thanks very much to Martin for posting the Extract Report.  I found it very
interesting, although depressing.

  I'd like all the extract brewers to post their experiences with particular
extract brands, so we can all figure out which brands to select and which to
avoid.  It's hard to believe that a product labelled "100% Barley Malt Extract"
could have a lot of sugar syrup added.  Sucks.

- -- 
ron rader, jr  rlr at bbt.com OR ...!mcnc!bbt!rlr = Opinions are my own and do
| |  i gotta six-pack & nothing to do...       = not necessarily reflect those
 | | i gotta six-pack & i don't need you       = of BroadBand Tech. (SO THERE!)
  *** Punk ain't no religious cult, punk means thinking for yourself - DKs ***

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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 91 13:57:09 EDT
From: Chris Shenton <chris at endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Melting solidified wort agar?

If I cook up a batch of wort for culturing stuff, then solidify with agar,
can I assume I can melt it later? By boiling, or steaming? (Microwave? :-)

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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 91 01:48:07 EDT
From: neptune!pryzby at uunet.UU.NET (Greg Pryzby)
Subject: liquid yeast question(s)

I have made the jump from dry to liquid yeast with my latest batch. I
have a few questions concerning liquid yeast though. 

I started the liquid yeast about 26 hours before I needed it. The package
was HUGE (I don't think it could have gotten bigger.) I pitched the
yeast at 70F and waited for the fermentation to start. Well, about 48
hours later the fermentation started. But it has been VERY slow. With dry
yeast, the fermentation started within a few hours and was vigorous for a
few days and done between 3-5 days. This batch looks like it is going to 
take alittle (or alot) longer.

Is this typical for liquid yeast? A slow start (about 48 hours to start)?
Slow fermentation (some bubbling)?

Temp should not be a problem, it is the same as for my last batches,
between 70-76F.

I would appreciate any feedback from someone who can tell me about the
difference between liquid and dry yeast. And why liquid yeast is preferred?
Or will I know that when the batch is tasted?

peace,
 greg

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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 91 14:38:14 EDT
From: cjh at vallance.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: detecting glass grenades

   David Resch points out that a bottle whose cap has become convex is
overpressured. I found the hard way that it's easier to spot an everting
cap if you've used bottles with a long collar (e.g., most bar bottles).
The homebrewer's standard two-lever capper makes a distinct, sharp-edged
dimple when capping long-collared bottles; you can see a pressure problem
starting if part of the edge of the dimple smooths out.

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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 91 10:57:11 -0700
From: ez005142 at pollux.ucdavis.edu
Subject: Bicarbonate


Thanks to all who responded to my somewhat foolish questions regarding
chlorine and chloride.  After several people beat me over the head, I think
I am finally beginning to understand why my idea won';t worlk.  But if
my idea is that bad, how the hell does one get rid of 700 ppm of bicarbonate?
One answer given awhil back was to use acid to shift the buffering potential
(or something like that) to a level where the bicarbonate would por
precipitate out.  But what would it precipitate out as, and where would it
get positively charged ions to bind with.  According to Miller you need
a certain ratio of Ca+ ions to each carbonate ion in order to precipitate
anything.  In my water I've only got 70 ppm og of Ca+.  Where would all
the precipitate come from?  I can't add more Ca+ because all the compounds
containing Ca+ also contain things I don't want in my water (like Cl- and
sulfates)  Doesn't anyone else have this problem or is Davis water really
THAT bad?  Or am I oworrying about something that really doens't matter
anyhow.  

In any case, I appreciate all the answers on my last stab in the dark.
Thanks to everyone who can help me with my currect questions.

Pretty soon I'll say screw it and buy bottled water!

Adios

Chris Swingley		csswingley at ucdavis.edu
Institute of Ecology
University of California, Davis

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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 91 11:37:57 PDT
From: rcasey at caticsuf.CSUFresno.EDU (Randy Casey)
Subject: Re:  Malt Extracts

>Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at PacBell.COM>
>The sugar profiles provided the real bombshell.  They divided the
>extracts into 3 groups, according to the contents listed on the
>labels.  Groups 2 and 3 both had various supplements listed, and the
>analyses tracked pretty well with the labeling.  Group 1 extracts,
>however, "were labeled at the source as pure malt extracts".  Of the
>21 extracts in that group, a commendable 14 had carbohydrate
>profiles "similar to the standard all-malt wort"

	I was wondering if the list of extracts by group
could be posted.  I would like to see what brands/styles
were labeled pure and what ones were 'supplemented' with
other frementables.

- -----------------
rcasey at caticsuf.csufresno.edu
Randy Casey


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Date: 	Fri, 16 Aug 1991 15:38:32 -0300
From: LEITH Graham Arthur <leith at ecf.toronto.edu>
Subject: Chill Haze


I have recently moved up from kit brewing to brewing with extracts, adjunct
grains, and hops.  While I have been very pleased with the taste of these
beers, they have a chill haze that I never encountered with the kits.  I
suspect that it is due to the proteins dissolved in the wort from the adjunct
grains (crystal malt and toasted barley malt) that I've been using.  I put the
adjuncts into the cold water and remove them when it comes to a boil, then add
the extract.

Does anybody have any suggestions on the use of finings, or better still, how
to avoid a chill haze without the use of finings?  Is it alright to add finings
to a secondary or will this precipitate out too much of the yeast needed for
bottle carbonation?   Should I close my eyes, not worry, and just enjoy the
taste of the beer?

Graham Leith

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Date: Friday, 16 August 1991 10:12am ET
From: joshua.grosse at amail.amdahl.com
Subject: All grain pale ale malt selections


In HBD #703, tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec) writes:

> The degree of kilning of British pale ale malt accounts for the
> wonderful color of pale ales....

I'm an extract brewer and make IPAs using an amber extract with crystal
malt as an adjunct.  My books on brewing (and they're for extract
brewers, of course) tell me that my wonderful copper-red color comes
from the crystal malt.  Killian's Red (a Coors commercial lager)
describes their use of caramel malt (US commercial name for crystal
malt) in the beer.

Is British pale malt a cross between, say, German 2-row and crystal
malt?  I don't have any recipies for all-grain pale ale, so I wonder.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Josh Grosse                                jdg00 at amail.amdahl.com
Amdahl Corp.                               313-358-4440
Southfield, Michigan


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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 91 15:12:28 EDT
From: cj at wisny.att.com
Subject: Harvesting and storing hops

    Someone recently asked how to tell when hops are ready to harvest
and I don't remember seeing an answer.  Mine are getting to that point
and, while I can make a pretty good guess, some advice would be helpful.
The buds seem a little small right now, but in past years I think I've
let them go a little too long.

    Once the hops have been picked, what's the proper way of processing
and storing them?  I had one shop tell me to just put them in plastic
bags in my freezer, but it seems like they get a little too damp this
way.

    One final question.  Is there any way to tell what I've got?  The
hops were just growing there when I bought the house (no, that wasn't
a consideration -- I didn't notice them until the first time I mowed
the yard -- they're growing semi-wild along the edge of the property)
and I've got now idea what variety they are.  I'm pretty sure the
previous owner didn't use them & he had the place for 15 years before
me.  The house was built in 1823, so who knows how old they really are.

    Thanks for any help.

Chris Hughes		cj at wisny.att.com	508-374-5613

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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 91 17:40:09 MDT
From: Tim Carlson <timc at hpfctjc.fc.hp.com>
Subject:  Quebec City pubs & brewpubs (STROUD)
Full-Name: Tim Carlson

>
>I'm going to Quebec City in a few weeks.  Never having been there, I wondered 
>if anyone knows of any especially good bars/pubs/restaurants to visit.  A good 
>beer selection is important, of course.  
>
>Also, I believe that there is one brewpub there, called L'Inox???  Anyone ever 
>been there?
>

I've been trying to catch up on mail after having been gone for almost 2 weeks,
and haven't seen any response to this request.

I was in New England & Quebec in June of this year, and stopped in at L'Inox.
L'Inox is in old town (vieux ville, if I remember my spelling); in fact its in
the lower part of old town (along the river) at the 'downstream' end of town
(northeast I think).  I probably have the address at home; let me know if you
want the address....

When I was there they had 2 "blonde" biers (light color); one filtered and one
unfiltered (and slightly cloudy).  The bartender gave us a sample of each of
the biers, and I decided that the unfiltered was better (more hops taste as
I recall).  The only food that they serve is steamed sausages in a steamed
bagette (french roll) -- not fancy, but still good.

For a 1 or 2 block stretch along the "main drag" (something boulevard, as I
recall) just outside of vieux ville, the street is lined with restaurants
and sidewalk cafes.  We ate dinner one nite at a place serving excellent 
"homemade" sausages and good bier, and at another restaurant serving great
dinner and dessert crepes (and reasonably good bier).

Hope this helps,

Tim Carlson	
Hewlett Packard
Fort Collins, CO 
timc at hpfctjc.fc.hp.com

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Date: Sat, 17 Aug 91 13:29:18 -0400
From: "a.e.mossberg" <aem at mthvax.cs.miami.edu>
Subject: USENET Newsgroup Rec.Crafts.Brewing is on the air


The vote succeeded, and USENET has a new newsgroups dedicated
to brewing: rec.crafts.brewing

For a test period, I will be posting the Homebrew Digest to
the group.

aem

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Date: Sat, 17 Aug 91 13:36:26 CDT
From: andy at wups.wustl.edu (Andy Leith)
Subject: German 2-row

Tony Babinec writes that
>German 2-row malt is suited for pilsners.  It tends to be
>less-modified.  If it were especially undermodified, you might have to
>use a decoction mash.  If it isn't too undermodified, you could use a
>step-infusion mash.

Apparently many commercial German brewers now use a single step
infusion (to save on energy costs), so I assume that you don't
necessarily "have" to use a step infusion with German 2-row.

On an unrelated topic I recall reading several weeks ago that
someone recommended only using British crystal for making bitters
and pale ales. I have had good successes with Briesse crystal malts
and don't think that the secret to making good bitters lies with the
nationality of the crystal used.  What does help is to let the cooled wort sit overnight in the fridge, and racking it off of the trub
before pitching the yeast. I only use British pale ale malt for
pale ales, and this may help. (A 55lb sack costs me $45).

Andy

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Date: 	Sat, 17 Aug 1991 23:04:00 -0400
From: MIKE LIGAS <LIGAS at SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA>
Subject: Sulfite Discussion

It seems that I've touched a sensitive point with some HBD'ers with my mention
of sulfites in mead making. First of all, if one is making staight mead (no
additional fruits) then a boil is all that is needed to provide sufficient
killing of unwanted microbes. As I mentioned a few issues ago, I use a low
level of potassium metabisulfite when fresh fruit is added to the preboiled
and cooled honey/water mixture, and that sulfiting is a standard practice in
winemaking. One can make wine without sulfiting and let the resident yeasts in
the must carry out the fermentation. This would of course be true to historical
methods but can be a hit or miss proposition depending on the yeasts present.

The advent of pure strains with particular fermentative characteristics allowed
zymurgists more control over the final outcome of their fermented nectars. It
followed that to ensure that the yeast strain of choice would dominate the
fermentation one would need to kill or reduce the population of 'wild' yeast
and other microbes prior to pitching the chosen strain. Hence the use of
sulfites when using fresh fruit since boiling fruit would set the pectin and
destroy some of the finer aromatic and flavour components of the fruit.

One objection to sulfiting is that some people are 'allergic' to sulfites. This
is partially true. The real problem is that sulfites hypersensitize you to what
you are already allergic to, like airborne dust and mould. Many wine makers add
a small amount of sulfite to their wine at bottling time in order to ensure a
long shelf life and to actually enhance bouquet development in the bottle. The
problem here is that SO2 cannot escape and the wine can pose a threat to those
who suffer from allergies. I have experienced quite an attack of sneezing and
watery eyes once after consuming a heavily sulfited Italian red wine.

The trick is to use minimal sulfite to ensure that most wild beasts are killed
or weakened and to add sulfite 24 hours prior to pitching your yeast, thus
allowing sufficient time for SO2 dissipation. Do not sulfite prior to bottling.

The use of sulfites is not restricted to wine and mead making. Read the
contents of a bottle of Mackeson's XXX Stout. Sucrose is added at bottling time
to make this Sweet Stout style of beer but if the yeast fermented the
additional sucrose a Stout bomb would be the result. Therefore the beer is
pasteurized and sulfited to stabilize it from bottle fermentation.

IMHO, judicial use of sulfite is warranted in certain circumstances and should
pose no real health problem unless you constantly exhibit allergic reactions to
various allergens.


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Date: Sat, 17 Aug 91 09:57 CDT
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: MALTING

 
 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling
 
 Subject:  MALTING BARLEY, AGAIN
 
 I note, with some cynicism, Darryl Richman's comment in 
 Zymurgy, that the brewmaster of Pilsner Urguell seemed 
 totally ignorant of the malting process.
 
 From the responses I received to a very basic question on 
 malting, that particular form of ignorance seems to apply 
 equally to home brewers.
 
 The diagram in the article came tantalizingly close to 
 answering my question but left out details that could be 
 used in action.
 
 As I suspected, in order to get acceptable germination, 
 dormancy must be broken.  He talks about three steeping 
 periods and a temperature range but leaves out what 
 separates one "period" from another.  
 
 What happens after 21 hours at 15-17 degs that seperates 
 this period from the next 21 hour period or from the final 
 17 hour period?
 
 I have been experimenting with freezing, friging and 
 steeping but surely someone out there can save me from 
 re-inventing the wheel.
 
 Darryl.... where are you?  Finish your article.
 
 jack
 
 


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Date: Sun, 18 Aug 91 18:47:52 bst
From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas at loughborough.ac.uk>
Subject: Re : Boots yeast

Regarding the difference between Boots' 'standard' and 'genuine brewers'
dried yeasts, I have only tried the latter and can vouch for it
(surprisingly enough, given the supplier !). It is a good general-purpose
yeast, producing a very clean flavour even at fermentation temperatures up
to 25 C; possibly a bit too neutral for ale fanatics. Its other main
characteristic is its sedimenting ability, which allows glasses to be
poured repeatedly from the bottle without disturbing the deposit. Keeps
fermenting down to at least 15 C. For reasons that escape me, it seems to
produce a better head on the finished beer than some other strains I have
used. Looks like a mainly bottom fermenter.  

Come to think of it, where are all these top fermenting yeasts we keep
reading about ? You know the ones I mean, that are supposed to send up
rocky pancake heads of yeast which threaten to engulf the house, and which
require daily skimming and rousing management. I have tried most of the
commercial dried yeasts available in both Australia and England, and am yet
to see anything which resembles this description. Ditto culturing from
Guinness, although I suppose they could be using a supplementary
bottle-conditioning strain. The only thing I haven't tried is begging the
dregs from a cask at the local pub. We have very few liquid cultures
available here in the UK.

Which brings me to another set of questions : is it possible that top
fermenting yeasts do not like closed fermentation ? In the absence of
oxygen, might they possibly dive to the bottom ? Consequently, are we
robbing our ales of some complexity by using airlocks during primary
fermentation ?

Just to complicate matters further, I recently tried Geordie's Extra Pils
kit. The kit is touted as producing a genuine continental lager (and does,
full of sulphide). Strangely enough, there are also instructions to rouse
the yeast daily. Why do this with a lager yeast ?

Lastly (I know, I'm full of questions today), what about the advice not to
stir yeast with metal spoons. Myth or not ?   

Conn V Copas                                   tel : (0509)263171  ext 4164
Loughborough University of Technology          fax : (0509)610815
Computer-Human Interaction Research Centre            
Leicestershire  LE11 3TU                    e-mail -    
G Britain                         (Janet):C.V.Copas at uk.ac.lut  
                     (Internet):C.V.Copas%lut.ac.uk at nsfnet-relay.ac.uk







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End of HOMEBREW Digest #704, 08/19/91
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