---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Sulfites ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  centennial hops (Russ Gelinas)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #702 (August 15, 1991) (David Resch)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #702 (August 15, 1991) (David Resch)
  beer frige & infection? (Dave Barrett)
  Re: Centennail Hops (Don McDaniel)
  prevent infections/lager&ale malts/centennial hops (Tony Babinec)
  RE: Brewing salts (CaCl) (Bill Dyer)
  Pumpkin Ale (Dances with Workstations)
  need some east coast homebrew shops (dave ballard)
  re: Some questions (lg562)
  HUNTER AIR-STAT  (card)
  Re: making mead (adietz)
  On Chillers (Martin A. Lodahl)
  Pale Malts (Martin A. Lodahl)
  Ka-BOOM (Martin A. Lodahl)
  Wanted: recipe for "lager style" ales (GC Woods)
  CaCl (STROUD)
  Calculating Alcohol Percentage (Alan Edwards)
  The Malt Extract Report (LONG!) (Martin A. Lodahl)
  astringent beer, partial mash? and Guinness (Rich Lenihan)


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[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Aug 91 08:32:15 CDT
From: andy at wups.wustl.edu (Andy Leith)

Does anybody know of somewhere I can get hold of the cultures necessary to
make a kriek, for less than the $45 that it costs from UC Davis?
                          Thanks
 Andy Leith

 andy at wups.wustl.edu          IP  128.252.144.4

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Date: Thu, 15 Aug 91 09:45:45 EDT
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu>
Subject: Sulfites

Unfortunately for those sensitive to sulfites, a certain amount can be
produced during fermentation.  This is why almost all (in fact all that
I've seen) wines are labelled "contains sulfites".  I don't know if
this is also true of beer (I haven't seen such labels on beers), maybe
it's something in grapes that does it.  There's a fellow in Michigan that
makes "organic wine".  Some years, he can leave off the sulfites warning,
others, he has to put it on (I assume he's testing the wine after it's
done).

=Spencer W. Thomas 		HSITN, U of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 48109
spencer at med.umich.edu		313-747-2778


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Date:    Thu, 15 Aug 1991 9:46:53 EDT
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: centennial hops

Centennial hops used to be known as CFJ90.  I've used them under both names,
the harvests of 1989 and 1990.  The 1989 version was better, but I understand
that the 1989 harvest was much better in general than the 1990 one.  Anyway,
Centennial are a high alpha hop, and I believe they are a somewhat new strain.

Russ

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Date: Thu, 15 Aug 91 08:29:48 MDT
From: resch at craycos.com (David Resch)
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #702 (August 15, 1991)

>
>       How can I be sure that the bottle I am about to open is not a bomb?
>       Any hints would make opening the first bottle of a batch much  less
>       traumatic for me, from now on.
>
>						   Mitch

Well, you can never be sure, but a very good indication of a "bomb" is when
the cap takes on a convex shape due to the excess pressure in the bottle. 

Dave


>   Subject: Centennial Hops
>
>   Has anyone had any experience with Centennial hops?  I picked some up
>   the other day because I had never tried them.  When I got home and
>   checked my references on hops (including the Zymurgy Hop issue), I
>   couldn't find anything on Centennial.  I assume that it is a fairly
>   new variety?  So what's it like?  Thanks.
>
>   - -- Mike

While I don't have any experience using them, I believe that
Centennial is a relatively new "super-Cascade" variety, i.e., it has a
lot of the Cascade characteristics for hop flavor and aroma, but is
substantially higher in alpha acid content.  I believe that during
development it was referred to as "CFJ-90" which may be how it is listed
in the special hop issue of Zymurgy.  I'm not sure of the alpha acid
content (don't have any info with me here at work), but if memory
serves me (it often doesn't) they would be in the 10-12 percent alpha
acid range, so discression is advised if they are to be used for
bittering.

Dave

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Date: Thu, 15 Aug 91 08:29:48 MDT
From: resch at craycos.com (David Resch)
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #702 (August 15, 1991)

>
>       How can I be sure that the bottle I am about to open is not a bomb?
>       Any hints would make opening the first bottle of a batch much  less
>       traumatic for me, from now on.
>
>						   Mitch

Well, you can never be sure, but a very good indication of a "bomb" is when
the cap takes on a convex shape due to the excess pressure in the bottle. 

Dave


>   Subject: Centennial Hops
>
>   Has anyone had any experience with Centennial hops?  I picked some up
>   the other day because I had never tried them.  When I got home and
>   checked my references on hops (including the Zymurgy Hop issue), I
>   couldn't find anything on Centennial.  I assume that it is a fairly
>   new variety?  So what's it like?  Thanks.
>
>   - -- Mike

While I don't have any experience using them, I believe that
Centennial is a relatively new "super-Cascade" variety, i.e., it has a
lot of the Cascade characteristics for hop flavor and aroma, but is
substantially higher in alpha acid content.  I believe that during
development it was referred to as "CFJ-90" which may be how it is listed
in the special hop issue of Zymurgy.  I'm not sure of the alpha acid
content (don't have any info with me here at work), but if memory
serves me (it often doesn't) they would be in the 10-12 percent alpha
acid range, so discression is advised if they are to be used for
bittering.

Dave

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Date:         15 Aug 91 10:09:16 EST
From: Dave Barrett <DAVE.BARRETT at OFFICE.WANG.COM>
Subject:      beer frige & infection?


I have a friend that is trying to get a tap system together for his home.  He
wants to have 1/2 barrels of Catamount port on tap.  The problem is to find an
appropriate refrigerator.  All the 5 cubic foot one's he has been able to find
appear to be made by Japan Inc. and come in one of two versions:  one has the
cooling coils built into the shelves and the other has a built in freezer.
Since he would perfer not to get a full size frige, does anyone know of a
source of domestic 5 cu ft friges?  Something in the Massachusetts/New
Hampshire area would be nice.  Direct replies are fine.

On another note.  Last May I made a honey ginger beer that was a take off on
Rocky Raccoon Larger.  The wort that went into the primary was an opaque
mustard/honey color and tasted pretty good.  After about 4 days I transferred
it to the secondary.  Everything looked fine, but still opaque.  Four weeks
later the beer had cleared a bit and there was a great deal of trub. I could
also see a 'hazy' layer in the middle of the carboy.  Since it smelt and tasted
ok I bottled it anyways.  After 4 weeks in the bottle (the beer, not me) I
I began to suspect that something was wronge.  The haze was still there.  So I
brought a bottle into work to show to another brewer to get his opinion on
what was happening.  Naturally transporting the bottle shook all the dregs back
up into the beer.  We left the bottle on my desk for the weekend to give the
dregs a chance to settle out. A surprise was waiting for me when I came to
work on Monday. (Nope this isn't another glass hand grenade sob story).  The
bottle has cleared. Totally.  Not only had the dregs settled back out, but the
haze was gone as well. This caused me to do something completely unnatural.  I
ran home and violently shook 5 gallons of homebrew.  Every bottle cleared after
2 to 3 days.  The beer still smells great and tastes pretty good but a little
too sweet for my taste.  The $64,000 question is what was that haze?  Where did
it come from and how do I keep it from coming back?  This batch was the first
time I ever brewed with honey.  Does that have something to do with it or did
the dog sneak some dirty diapers into the carboy?

Thanks in advance,
                  db

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Date: Thu, 15 Aug 91 09:19:31 -0600
From: dinsdale at chtm.eece.unm.edu (Don McDaniel)
Subject: Re: Centennail Hops

Regarding the use of Centennial hops:

I got four ounces from Freshhops this spring as they were out of
all high-alpha varieties that I was familiar with.  I have since
used some in a couple of batches of ale (I believe a brown ale
kit and an all grain pale, although my brewsheets are not here at
work).  They have given perfectly satisfactory results when used
for bittering (60 min. boil).  I am in the habit of using Cascade
or Willamette for aroma and a high-alpha variety for bittering.
Used in this way, I don't think the variety of bittering hop is
really important, assuming of course you account for the alpha
acid content in determining the appropriate quantities.

The theory behind this disregard for variety is that in a 60 min
boil, the aromatics which distinguish hop varieties are boiled
away.  Consequently, you might as well save some money and use the
highest alpha variety you can find.

Don McDaniel


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Date: Thu, 15 Aug 91 10:18:57 CDT
From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec)
Subject: prevent infections/lager&ale malts/centennial hops

Here are some comments on recent discussions in HBD.

Regarding preventing infections:  there were many good suggestions in
recent installments of the digest, but I thought I'd mention or
reinforce a few.

 - After acquiring carboys for fermentation, I've used my original
plastic fermenter as a sterilizer bucket.  EVERYTHING that will touch
the boiled wort gets an immersion in the plastic fermenter.  That
includes spoons, funnels, siphon tubes.  Immediately after siphoning
wort, I siphon some of the chlorine water into the tube and immerse
it.  Glass carboys should be visually inspected, scrubbed with a
brush, and also treated with a mild chlorine solution.  Occasional use
of a caustic such as lye (Drano, Red Devil) will clean and sterilize,
but be careful with it!  Lye treatment followed by scouring pads will
usually remove stubborn burnt malt from your brewpot.  On the other
hand, I haven't used it on siphoning tubes, of course!

 - Boil all water prior to use.

 - Get a quick cold break.  When I began by making extract beers, I'd
add water at the end to bring the volume up to 5 gallons.  When I
moved to partial mash/all mash brews, and had a greater volume of
wort, I bought a wort chiller.  Slowly-cooling wort goes through
temperature danger zones where bacteria might take hold.  A rapid
cooling is good insurance against them taking hold. 

 - Build up the yeast prior to pitching.  If you have no special
equipment, boil some dry malt extract to make a wort starter, pour it
into a sanitized 16 oz beer bottle, and cover either with sterile
cotton gauze or even a bit of aluminum foil.  Or, a local science supply
store had some 1000 ml flasks, and these were easily fitted with
stoppers and fermentation locks.  There are few things worse than a
long lag period between the time the yeast is pitched and visible
signs of fermentation appear.  As pointed out many times, a quick
start of your yeast is reasonable insurance that the yeast will
dominate the fermenter environment and suppress bacteria.  As pointed
out in the Yeast issue of Zymurgy, commercial packaged yeasts,
especially the otherwise wonderful WyYeasts, are of insufficient
volume for a 5-gallon wort.  

The point about these and other suggestions is that it's unlikely that
the average homebrewer can work in a truly sterile environment,
however, some of these practices at least stack the odds in your
favor.

Regarding lager/ale malts:  There are several things going on.  I'm
neither a physicist or chemist, and I don't have my references handy
(they're at home, I'm at work), but here's what I recall.

Our local supply store has the following pale malts:  6-row American,
2-row American, 2-row German, and British (2-row) pale ale malt.  Of these
malts, only the pale ale malt should be used for making pale
ales.  Malts vary in the degree to which they are modified and the
degree to which they are kilned.  Modification refers to how much the
acrospire (embryonic barley plant) is allowed to germinate.  Kilning
refers to length and temperature of drying of the sprouted barley.
  
British pale ale malt is a well-modified malt that is kilned a bit
more than the pale lager malts.  Because it is well-modified, you can
use a single infusion mash, although I always do step infusion.  The
degree of kilning of British pale ale malt accounts for the wonderful
color of pale ales.  Another effect of kilning is to destroy enzymes.
This is why highly-kilned malts (chocolate, black) are used as
specialty malt add-ons to a pale malt or extract base.  This is also
why if you want to use flaked maize, wheat malt, or other specialty
grains in small amounts in a pale ale, you might consider adding a bit
of 6-row American for its enzyme content.

6-row American has high-enzyme, high-protein content.  Because of
high-protein content, it needs a protein rest.  Because of high-enzyme
content, it is particulary suited to American-style adjunct brewing,
where corn and rice become routine ingredients in the recipe.
Discussions of American 6-row always caution that since it is somewhat
husky, too-hot sparge water can contribute to husky, tannic flavors in
the wort.

German 2-row malt is suited for pilsners.  It tends to be
less-modified.  If it were especially undermodified, you might have to
use a decoction mash.  If it isn't too undermodified, you could use a
step-infusion mash.  I've had success with step-infusion.  See
Noonan's books and articles for all the reasons why you'd want to do a
decoction mash.  See Miller's "Contintal Pilsner" for more on this
topic.

American 2-row tends to be fully-modified and not so high in protein
or enzyme content as American 6-row.

In sum:  use only pale ale malt when making British pale ales; use
other pale malts when making lagers or Continental ales.  If you use
pale ale malt to make a lager, you'd have a difficult time making a
truly pale beer.  If you use other malts to make a pale ale, you'd
have difficulty getting the right color.  Plus, these other malts give
rise to DMS flavors which at appropriate levels are okay for lagers
but wrong for pale ales.  Of course, the above are disclaimers, and it
would help to have more information on any particular malt from the
supplier!

Centennial hops:  Aren't these the same as CFJ-90?  I think I used
some CJF-90s with an alpha of 7 or so.  They're suitable for brewing
West-Coast-style ales.  I'm not certain, but aren't they descended
from Cascades?

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Date: Thu, 15 Aug 91 10:46:55 CDT
From: dyer at marble.rtsg.mot.com (Bill Dyer)
Subject: RE: Brewing salts (CaCl)

[Stuff about carbonate and bicarbonate removed]

>
>	Please correct me if I am wrong about the above chemistry (but don't
>	correct my typo's please!).  Miller talks about similar reactions using
>	Calcium sulfate, but I don't want to add all that sulfate to my water
>	which already has too much to being with (begin with).

A couple things here seem questionable, first, I'm not sure that boiling
will convert bicarbonate to carbonate, in fact I'm not even sure what
carbonate and bicarbonate are, I'll look this one up tonight.

Second, you are assuming and calcium carbonate will precipitate, is this
a good assumption?  I don't know.

Thirdly, and this one I am pretty sure about, cloride ions will not simply become
'volatile' and evaporate.  I don't think you would want that anyway since 
chlorine gas is not pleasant.  The reason is that chloride ions have an extra
electron given to them by the calcium atom when the ionic bond was formed.
In order to convert chloride ions into chlorine, they have to give up their
electron to some other positive ion, which in turn will become a non charged
molecule.  This is not likely to happen on your water since there is nothing
to accept the electron (positive metal ions will not do this since they gave
up their electrons in the first place, besides you do not want calcium or 
sodium metal floating around in your brew).  You may be able to get the 
chlorine out of the water by applying a current to the water, for instance
this is how electro-plating works.  A metal is deposited on  the surface of
some other metal and a gas is released. 

_____________________________________________________________________________
|  I wish I could sit on soft pillows,      |Bill Dyer  (708) 632-7081      |
|  and eat molten lava.                     | dyer at motcid.rtsg.mot.com      |
|                     -King Missle          | or  uunet!motcid!dyer         |



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Date: Thu, 15 Aug 91 12:11:52 EDT
From: Dances with Workstations <buchman at marva1.ENET.DEC.COM>
Subject: Pumpkin Ale

Greetings,
	The season for making pumpkin pie approaches, and what better time
to brew a Pumpkin Ale? I hear there is a recipe for "Punkin Ale" in this
summer's Zymurgy, but my supply store is out of that issue. Could someone
mail me, or post, a copy of that recipe? Or does anyone have a favorite
extract-based recipe for pumpkin beer?
			Thanks,
				Jim Buchman
				buchman at marva2.enet.dec.com

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Date: 15 Aug 1991  12:52 EDT
From: pyuxe!dab at bellcore.bellcore.com (dave ballard)
Subject: need some east coast homebrew shops


Hey now-  I'm new to this digest and to homebrewing in general and
I could use a lttle help from you guys.  I'm starting to look for
starter kits etc, and I got a catalog from Great Fermentations of
Santa Rosa (CA).  The stuff in the catalog is great, but the problem is 
that ordering from the left coast will cost me a small fortune in shipping.
Can anyone recommend a supply house in the central NJ area?  I think 
there's a place on Staten Island, but I'm not sure.  Any info would
be appreciated...

 -dab

=================================================
dave ballard
dab at pyuxe.cc.bellcore.com



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Date: Thu, 15 Aug 91 09:56:30 PDT
From: lg562 at koshland.pnl.gov
Subject: re: Some questions

   Date: Wed, 14 Aug 91 12:39:23 MET DST
   >From: etxsral at hal.ericsson.se (Lars Nilsson)

   Here is some questions:

   1. What is Corn Sugar ?
      (Sorry for this stupid question but I have never seen this type
       of sugar in Sweden or the U.K. )

This is glucose, aka dextrose, aka D-glucopyranose.  Sorry I can't
answer the other question.

Michael Bass
Molecular Science Research Center, K2-18
Battelle - Pacific Northwest Laboratory
Richland, Washington  99352
lg562 at pnl.gov


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Date: Thu, 15 Aug 91 13:58:54 EDT 
From: card at apollo.hp.com
Subject: HUNTER AIR-STAT 


Boston Area: 

The Hunter Air-stat can be bought at Lechmere's for $24.95. 
I know for certain that the Cambridge and Nashua NH stores 
both have them.  

Thanks to those that responded. 

/Mal Card

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Date: 15 Aug 1991  14:38 EDT
From: afd at hera.cc.bellcore.com (adietz)
Subject: Re: making mead


>Date: 	Tue, 13 Aug 1991 17:23:00 -0400
>From: MIKE LIGAS <LIGAS at SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA>
>Subject: Making Mead
>
>
>PS- mead IS an aphrodisiac!!!
>

Yup, this is true. ;-)

 -A Dietz
Bellcore, Morristown


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Date: Thu, 15 Aug 91 12:50:28 PDT
From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at PacBell.COM>
Subject: On Chillers

In HOMEBREW Digest #701, Steve Anthony asked:

>I had thought that getting a lenth of copper pipe and having a friendly
>local plumber coil it for me would be a start. I could then sweat solder
>(using non-lead solder, of course) some elbows and straight runs of pipe on
>to the coil; perhaps using some flexible hosing and hose clamps for areas
>where one might need to be able to bend the tube. I thought I might even
>put a valve and perhaps a thermometer on the output side.
>
>I had then thought that putting the coil of the chiller in my kitchen sink
>and surrounding it with crushed ice water would cool the boiling wort
>appropriately. But will it? ...
>
>Any comments, answers, etc are welcome!

Sounds like the Ultimate Chiller.  But you can achieve the same
effect much more simply with an immersion chiller.  I made mine by
taking a 50' coil of 3/8" soft copper tubing (readily available at  
hardware stores, plumbing supply stores, etc.), added a compression
fitting to each end, along with a 3/8"-male-pipe-to-1/4"-female-pipe
bushing and 1/4" hose barb.  To each hose barb I attached flexible
plastic tubing.  I used food grade because that's what I had; as the
wort won't touch it, lesser grades are fine.  To one of those hoses
I attached a "Gilmore" (1/4" hose barb to 3/4" female garden hose)
fitting.  I re-coiled the copper tubing (easily done) to fit inside
my boiler.  I fill the thing with hot water, and place it in the
boiling wort to sterilize for at least 20 minutes.  After turning
off the heat, I attach the Gilmore fitting to a water tap, and
slowly run cold water through it, capturing the VERY hot water
coming out of the exhaust hose for use in cleanup.  In a half-hour,
this will get it down into the 80's(F).  I usually don't let it go
that long, shifting over instead to icewater recirculation after the
wort temperature drops below 100F.  Simple, works great.

After I'm done with it, part of the cleanup of it is always to blow
as much water as I can out of the coils.  I used to be more relaxed
about this, but a hard freeze last winter destroyed my previous
chiller ...

= Martin A. Lodahl   			Pacific*Bell Systems Analyst =
= malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM       Sacramento, CA       916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =


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Date: Thu, 15 Aug 91 13:02:33 PDT
From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at PacBell.COM>
Subject: Pale Malts

In HOMEBREW Digest #701, Russ Gelinas asked:

> I'm confused (what's new?).  What's the difference between lager malt and
>ale malt?  I always thought lager was 6-row, and ale was 2-row, and you
>could really use either for either.  But I've seen references to pale ale
>malt.  Is that just 2-row lager?

My understanding of the differences is that lager malt is usually
6-row in North America and 2-row everywhere else, the exception
being the 2-row Klages barley malted to the moderate degree of
modification lager malts usually use, and frequently sold as "pale
malted barley".  This is versatile stuff, very akin to Continental
lager malts but with nearly the diastatic power of 6-row.  Pale ale
malt is a 2-row malt with a very complete degree of modification,
slightly more highly kilned than most pale malts.  It has relatively
little diastatic power, but will produce good yeild when mashed in
the British single-temperature infusion menthod.

= Martin A. Lodahl   			Pacific*Bell Systems Analyst =
= malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM       Sacramento, CA       916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =


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Date: Thu, 15 Aug 91 13:14:08 PDT
From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at PacBell.COM>
Subject: Ka-BOOM

In HOMEBREW Digest #702, Mitchell M. Evans described the most
traumatic experience a brewer can have:

>    After about 6 days (which I thought was a short fermentation at the
>    time), the fermentation stopped.  S.G. looked pretty good...not  as
>    good as hoped, but still acceptable.  Wrong Answer!   I  was making
>    some mighty fine glass grenades.  The time came to open  the  first
>    one of the batch...
>
>    Glass and beer shot 20 feet across my house, peppering the walls in
>    my living room, dining room, and kitchen.  On the way to the walls,
>    the glass opened my thumb to the bone.  Yee-hah.  The mess was hor-
>    rible, as you might imagine.  I bled like a stuck pig.

No fun.  It's interesting, though, that the "S. G. looked pretty
good".  You may not have done anything wrong!  This may be a form of
contamination noted in these pages before, where after a pause of
several days fermentation resumes, sometimes continuing all the way
down to 1.000!  Obviously not a normal and healthy fermentation. 
Wild yeast seem the most likely cause.

>    How can I be sure that the bottle I am about to open is not a bomb?
>    Any hints would make opening the first bottle of a batch much  less
>    traumatic for me, from now on.

Mike Sharp has reported running across very high-pressure bottles,
and has taken to lifting just a tiny bit of the cap to get a sense
for how rapidly the gas "wants" to come out of solution.  If it
seems too vigorous, he can clamp the cap down again before it really
gets going.  I usually take a slightly different approach with a new
batch, opening a bottle every few days after bottling.  The first
few aren't likely to taste that good, but if there's a developing
overcarbonation problem I'd know about it before it reached the
danger point.  Good luck!

= Martin A. Lodahl   			Pacific*Bell Systems Analyst =
= malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM       Sacramento, CA       916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =


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Date: 15 Aug 91 16:41:49 EDT (Thu)
From: GC Woods <gcw at garage.att.com>
Subject: Wanted: recipe for "lager style" ales


Does anyone have an extract recipe for making a "lager style" beer
with ale yeast. I've been in brewpubs which do not have the
facilities/capacity to brew lagers, but will make a similar brew using
ale yeast.

					Thanks, 
					Geoff Woods

On another note:

>From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
>Carboys are easier to keep clean than buckets -- they don't scratch like
>plastic -- so there will be less chance of infection. I wouldn't worry

You must be kidding. Maybe I am not using the correct type of brush or 
something, but I can wash out a food grade plastic bucket with no
problem (and no scratches yet), but have a very difficult time getting
all of the stuck junk off the inside of a glass carboy.

If there is some gadget I'm missing to clean carboys, please e-mail me!

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Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1991 15:17 EST
From: STROUD%GAIA at sdi.polaroid.com
Subject: CaCl

Chris Swingley writes, suggesting adding CaCl2 to a high carbonate water supply 
to precipitate the carbonate, then boiling to remove the chlorine.

Bad news, Chris.  You can boil until doomsday and you'd *never* get rid of the 
chloride.  All you'd do is boil off the water.  Chlorine and chloride are two 
different chemical species.  Chlorine is a volitile gas.  Chloride (an anion) 
ain't and it will just stay there when you boil. Chloride WILL NOT become 
chlorine just by heating it up in boiling water.  What you are suggesting won't 
work. 

It is like saying that you can get salt (sodium chloride) out of water by
boiling it.  We all know that that isn't true.  All you get is a more 
concentrated salt solution.  

If you try what you have suggested, you'll end up with some mighty salty 
tasting brew. 

Steve 

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Date: Thu, 15 Aug 91 14:19:47 PDT
From: rush at xanadu.llnl.gov (Alan Edwards)
Subject: Calculating Alcohol Percentage

Hello everyone.

I would like to know the REAL formula for calculating alcohol content from
starting and ending specific gravity readings.  Somewhere I picked up this
formula:
                     
  Alcohol_by_weight = (Final_Gravity - Starting_Gravity) * 105
       and
  Alcohol_by_volume = Alcohol_by_weight * 1.25

I KNOW that at least the second part cannot be correct, because
Alcohol_by_volume and Alcohol_by_weight do not have this linear
relationship--otherwise 100% alcohol by weight implies 125%
alcohol by volume (powerful stuff)!  That makes me suspect the
first equation also.  Somehow, I don't think that either equation
could be linear.  These must be approximations.  (They were probably
inferred from those potential alcohol marks on a hygrometer.)

Does anyone know the definitive, correct set of equations--or at least
something more accurate?  Miller's book does not mention this calculation
(at least I couldn't find it).

If you don't know the correct equations, what do you use in practice?

Thanks,
 -Al
 .------------------------------------.
 | Alan Edwards: rush at xanadu.llnl.gov |      Member: The Hoppy Cappers
 |     or: alan-edwards at llnl.gov      |      homebrew club, Modesto, CA
 `------------------------------------'

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Date: Thu, 15 Aug 91 14:43:47 PDT
From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at PacBell.COM>
Subject: The Malt Extract Report (LONG!)

After my previous posting on the abstract(s) in Zymurgy of a report
on adulteration of malt extracts, Russ Wigglesworth of the San
Andreas Malts provided me with a copy of the original report. 
Entitled "Malt Extract:  Relationship of Chemical Composition to
Fermentability", by J. Paik, N. H. Low, and W. M. Ingledew of the
Department of Applied Microbiology and Food Science, University of
Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada S7N 0W0, it was received May 15 1990
by the American Society of Brewing Chemists, and accepted September
5 1990.  It's my understanding that it was published in the February
1991 issue of their Journal.  This is a very long posting, but I
think the subject warrants it.

The report makes fascinating reading, and clears up some points 
raised by the Zymurgy articles.  It begins with an abstract:

	Forty-four commercial malt extracts used in microbreweries,
	brewpubs, and/or homebrewing were adjusted to 12 degrees
	Plato and fermented at 14 degrees C.  Results were compared
	with those of an all-malt wort from a large Canadian brewery
	fermented under the same conditions.  In general, the worts
	made from malt extracts contained lower utilizable free
	amino nitrogen (FAN) values, showed slower fermentation 
	rates, and had darker colors than the brewery wort.  The 
	extracts with higher FAN fermented better than those with
	low FAN levels.  The slow fermentation rates of some malt 
	extracts that contained low initial levels of utilizable FAN
	could be improved by supplementation with assimilable
	nitrogen from yeast extract or the nitrogen (but not the carbon
	skeleton) from glutamic acid.  The carbohydrate profiles of
	the malt extracts as determined by high-performance liquid
	chromatography showed considerable variation.  It was
	possible to detect in the malt extracts the addition of,
	or adulteration by, lower cost adjuncts such as glucose
	syrup, invert syrup, liquid sugar, or high-fructose corn
	syrup.

Significantly, one of the search keywords is "Stuck fermentation". 
The early part of the report describes the methods used with a level
of detail one would expect of a paper of this nature.  What would
interest us is that "Forty-one malt extracts (all of light lager
type) were purchased from a local brewing supply store.  These malt
extracts were called beer kits, home brew kits, concentrated brewing
worts, or malt extracts for home brewing ... In addition, one bulk
malt extract sample from a malting company and two bulk malt extract
samples from a local brewpub were obtained".  Red Star Lager yeast
was used for all the fermentation studies.

The first sign of real trouble apparently came when they noticed
that the time the extract brews required to drop from 12P to 6P
varied from a low of 45 hours to a high of 173, compared to the
baseline of 51 hours for the Molsen wort.  In fact, "93% of the malt
extracts had demonstrably slower fermentation rates than the
standard wort", with a "correlation between initial FAN level and
fermentation time (to 6P) yielded an r value of 0.75 -- a
correlation significant at the 0.01 probability level" for all you
statisticians out there.  To summarize the conclusions of the
fermentation part of the study, yeast nutrients appear to be much
more helpful than we've previously been led to believe, in dealing
with extract worts.  That fact is rather surprising:  I, for one,
wouldn't have expected there to be that much difference between the
performance of an all-malt extract wort and an all-malt, all-grain
wort.

The sugar profiles provided the real bombshell.  They divided the
extracts into 3 groups, according to the contents listed on the
labels.  Groups 2 and 3 both had various supplements listed, and the
analyses tracked pretty well with the labeling.  Group 1 extracts,
however, "were labeled at the source as pure malt extracts".  Of the
21 extracts in that group, a commendable 14 had carbohydrate
profiles "similar to the standard all-malt wort", which placed them
in class 1.  From here I quote:  "Group 1 class 2 extracts had a
D-glucose concentration 2.7 times that of the standard, with
concomitantly less maltose and maltotriose.  The two possible
explanations for this sugar profile are that wort production was
carried out using a longer saccharification period during the
mashing process (considered unlikely as the final ethanol
concentration of the beer would then be >5%), or that a glucose
syrup was added to the malt extract.  A single Group 1 class 3
extract was found to have 88% of its total sugar content as
D-glucose.  Because this sample did not contain any D-fructose,
sucrose, maltose, or maltotriose, this product was highly
adulterated with a high-glucose syrup".  WOW!  A malt extract,
without a trace of malt extract!  They continue:  "Carbohydrate
analyses of all Group 1 extracts indicated that seven of the 21
samples labeled as pure malt extracts were adulterated with glucose
syrup."

So there you have it.  We all know that it's quite possible to make
very good beer using malt extracts, but most of us have at some time
had some problem extract batches.  The degree of variation this
study identifies suggests we may not always have been at fault.  The
study suggests to me a few considerations:

+  If you're not at least partial mashing, add yeast nutrient.  It can't
	hurt, and might help.

+  Don't add sugar to an extract wort.  It may already have all it can
	stand.

+  All extracts are not alike.  if you're using a good one, stick
	with it.

Happy brewing ...

= Martin A. Lodahl   			Pacific*Bell Systems Analyst =
= malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM       Sacramento, CA       916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =


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Date: Thu, 15 Aug 91 18:20:21 EDT
From: rich at progress.COM (Rich Lenihan)
Subject: astringent beer, partial mash? and Guinness


  Thanks to all who responded to my recent question re: ppm vs. mg/l.
I feel a little guilty because I haven't done anything with the
information I've received.  I don't treat my water yet (but I am pre-
boiling all my water now).

  Now some new questions:

  A few weeks ago I made a batch of red ale using 6 lbs. light DME,
11 g. Edme dried yeast, 3.5 oz. Goldings leaf hops, 1 cup crystal
and pre-boiled water for 5 gallon volume.  Two problems:  1. The brew
fermented fine for about 3-4 days, then stopped.  Initial SG   at  1.044,
subsequent readings stuck at about 1.032.  I attributed this to a
heat wave that killed my yeast (this is the first time I've brewed in
the summer).  I took another 11 g. packet of Edme dried yeast, started 
it in sterile wort and re-pitched into the carboy.  From the taste,
smell and look of the starter, the second packet of yeast seemed
healthy enough (both packets purchased together).  A month later
fermentation is steady but sloooow.  SG last Saturday was  at  1.021.
Is this typical of Edme or is it just the heat?  The AC in my apt.
stays set at about 75 F.  2.  When I tasted my SG samples, there
was a definite astringency caused by (I guess) boiling the crystal
for too long.  Can this be fixed?  What I'd like to know is if there
is a way to sweeeten or mellow the beer at this point without adding
any more fermentables (I'd like to bottle it this year) and without
raising its gravity.

   Also, while I'm still extract brewing, I've been giving some thought
lately to mashing my own.  Now most "experts" recommend starting with
a partial mash to get the hang of it for a while.  Why?  What are the
advantages to this?  It seems to me that if I'm going to go through the
trouble of milling, decocting/infusing, spargeing and all of the rest of
it, why not mill a little more malt and do a full mash?

   Finally, I've read with interest the discussion re. Guinness on draft.
Good Guinness is a wonderful drink (I've never been to Ireland, but I 
assume when saints die, they ascend to heaven on the foamy head
of Guinness stout).  However, noone so far has mentioned the #1 
problem with getting Guinness draft in the States.  Temperature.
In most bars, all the kegs are kept in one room at one temperature -
*cold*.  So even if the Guinness is fresh and they use official Guinness
tap systems, if they serve you a pint of Guinness at Budweiser temperature, 
it won't taste velvety smooth with complex undertones.  It will taste
harsh and bitter.  The best you can do is to hold the glass in your hands
until it warms up...if you can stand it :-)


          Rich

Rich Lenihan                 UUCP: mit-eddie!progress!rich
Progress Software Corp.      Internet: rich at progress.com
5 Oak Park                   Real life:  20-I Brandywine Drive
Bedford, MA  01730                       Shrewsbury, MA 01545
USA                                      (508) 754-7502

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #703, 08/16/91
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