---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Re: Why is my beer so sweet? (Jason Goldman)
  Re: Malting and enzyme destruction... (Eric Pepke)
  Re: Lauter Tun Set Up (Jason Goldman)
  ss pots (Russ Gelinas)
  Detonation imminent? (Dances with Workstations)
  The great yeast hunt (nnieuwej)
  ss pots (Russ Gelinas)
  It's the yeast I could do... (Peter Kester)
  Reply to Homebrew Digest #706 (August 21, 1991)  (rsd)
  Boston brew locations (Larry McCaig)
  Re: Kegging (Chris Shenton)
  Re: Grains with Extract (John DeCarlo)
  Re: yeast production of SO2  (hersh)
  Re: Lagering problem (John Polstra)
  Stuff From my Head(semi-long) (Chad Epifanio)
  Low temp. fermentation procedures (joshua.grosse)
  Bottles and Storage (Peter Kester)
  can i save the yeast cake? (Greg Pryzby)
  re brewing legalities (Chip Hitchcock)
  Re : Malt extracts (Frank Mayhar)
  Same recipe, same conditions, different ferment times plus NJ store (man)
  re Frank's excessively sweet first efforts ("Doug Olson, ISVG West, Mtn View")
  Tang (was: Re : Malt extracts) (Douglas Allen Luce)
  kegging (Jack Schmidling)
  Explosives and Ginger Ale (Steve Kirkish)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Aug 91 08:08:32 -0600
From: Jason Goldman <jason at gibson.sde.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Why is my beer so sweet?

Acting as an armchair expert;-), my guess is that the beers that you
are making are underhopped.  When there's not enough hops to balance
the malt flavor, the beer is going to taste *alot* sweeter.  Your
best bet is to stop using hopped extract (the reason alot of people
advise mashing is to have more control over the beer than using
extracts, by using hopped extracts, you are giving up one more thing
under your control) and use real hops.  You should also probably
try to boil more than 2 gallons of wort, if you can.

The temperature factor is perhaps valid as well, but I don't think
that it is the major contributor.

Good luck,
Jason
Regal lager: not just a beer, it's a palindrome!

Return to table of contents


Date:    Wed, 21 Aug 1991 10:08:04 EDT
From: PEPKE at SCRI1.SCRI.FSU.EDU (Eric Pepke)
Subject: Re: Malting and enzyme destruction...

> Jeeze, if Miller and Papazian believe that enzymes are killed
> in Mash-Out at 168f, then someone is on drugs.

> Can anyone explain?  Is it the availability of H2O?

Yes and yes.  The enzymes can stand higher temperatures when they are dry.
That's why the malt must be dried at lower temperatures before it can be
kilned.

They're not totally invincible, though.  Roasting will destroy them.

Eric Pepke                                     INTERNET: pepke at gw.scri.fsu.edu
Supercomputer Computations Research Institute  MFENET:   pepke at fsu
Florida State University                       SPAN:     scri::pepke
Tallahassee, FL 32306-4052                     BITNET:   pepke at fsu

Disclaimer: My employers seldom even LISTEN to my opinions.
Meta-disclaimer: Any society that needs disclaimers has too many lawyers.

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 21 Aug 91 08:18:55 -0600
From: Jason Goldman <jason at gibson.sde.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Lauter Tun Set Up

I use a pseudo-double-bucket lauter tun.  I started with two 5 gallon
buckets.  I not only drilled the proverbial million holes, but to beat
the problem you described, I cut the bottom off the 'holy' bucket and
it fits all the way down to the tap in the other bucket.  I also cut a
couple of tabs into the sides of the false bottom so I can pull it out
when I'm done (it's a very tight fit).

Jason


Return to table of contents


Date:    Wed, 21 Aug 1991 9:52:06 EDT
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: ss pots

  Just to hold off requests for info, Rapids phone number is (800) 553-7906.
Ask for a catalog.  They'll ask if it's for a business. Say yes; they are
wholesale only.

Russ

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 21 Aug 91 09:15:01 -0400
From: buchman at marva1.dco.DEC.COM (Dances with Workstations)
Subject: Detonation imminent?

Hi,
	I need a quick expert opinion to avoid redecorating my basement
in broken glass and Toad Spit Stout. I brewed this using the recipe in
Papazian; fermentation was very vigorous for three days, then slowed to
almost nothing. Gravity went from 1.050 to 1.020 and held there for five
days, so I assumed fermenting was done and bottled with 3/4 cup corn sugar.
	Because of the high ending gravity, and keeping the recent discussion
on bottle bombs in mind, I carefully opened a bottle last night. After only
three days in the bottle the stout had about the pressure that one would
expect from a mature bottle, or more: even though I opened it in stages,
it gushed over a little bit. When poured, it had a lot of head on it, which
dissipated within two minutes. The brew itself did not taste overly carbon-
ated.
	About half the batch is in resealable Fischer (Grolch-style)
bottles, so I took the precaution of opening and closing all of them to
relieve the pressure. None of them gushed, but I didn't leave the bottles
unsealed long enough for them to do so. The other half, though, are in
capped bottles. What I would like to know is:
	- should I uncap and recap all of these bottles to avoid a problem
with excess pressure? It might result in flat beer (though I can always
open and reprime the bottles), and then again it might prevent bottle bombs.
	- Will it be sufficient to just put the bottles in the refrigerator,
on the theory that cold beer holds more carbonation and so is less likely
to blow up? I hate to chill good stout but will do so if necessary.
	- Am I worrying too much? After all, the final fermentation could
have finished quickly because of the warm weather in summer. The basement
stays in the 75 range this time of year, but might reach 80 during the day
when it's hot.
	- If I want to take another SG to see if there were excess ferment-
ables which are now being "processed", will the carbonation in a bottled
beer skew the results? I could leave a bottle opened but airlocked overnight
to let it go flat. And of course I would have to adjust for the sugar added
for bottling.
	You can respond directly to me at buchman at marva1.enet.dec.com, or
post the response. I'll summarize any interesting responses.
	(btw, I never heard back about the recipe for Pumpkin Ale from this
summer's Zymurgy. Does anyone have it?)
			Thanks,
				Jim Buchman

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 21 Aug 91 09:40:38 -0400
From: nnieuwej at pooh.bowdoin.edu
Subject: The great yeast hunt

I'm relatively new to the digest, but I've been brewing for some time.
I've been slowly working my way through the past year of archived digests
but (surprisingly) haven't found an answer to one question I've had for a
long time.  While there are many accounts of culturing the yeast from
a bottle of comercial beer, most (if not all) of these involve Sierra Nevada.
I'm sure everyone has heard apocryphal stories of an individual purchasing
10+ cases of some exotic beer, hoping that there will be just a single
stray yeast cell that can be nurtured and cared for and encouraged to reproduce.
Rather than spend a small fortune on commercial beer, I thought I would turn
to the experts.  From  what brands of beer has yeast successfully been
cultured?

 -Nils

Return to table of contents


Date:    Wed, 21 Aug 1991 9:21:05 EDT
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: ss pots

   Sorry Justin, but Rapids Inc. still has the best prices.  I just bought a
40 qt. ss pot (made by Polar, I think) with lid.  The pot was $90, and
the lid was $18.  I also got a ss spoon for $2.25.  UPS shipping to NH cost
about $11, so the whole package cost me $121.  I believe Rapids is located
in Iowa, which would lead to lower shipping costs to most of the US than
from Minnesota.

Russ

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 21 Aug 91 11:13:05 -0400
From: m22457 at mwunix.mitre.org (Peter Kester)
Subject: It's the yeast I could do...
Full-Name: Peter Kester


I just getting caught up with my digests and read your article:

> I live on the coast of Maine (hee hee hee :->) where homebrew supply
> shops are few and far between.  It is rare that any of the three
> stores that I am aware of have anything other than your standard
> Red Star dry yeast :-(.  Certainly there is nothing like the selection
> I've heard of on the net (German ale yeast #1007 !!?! what!?!).  Is
                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is a liquid yeast.  Wyeast (as well as others) sell liquid yeast
cultures designed for different types of beer.  This is not to say
that you couldn't use the german ale yeast in making a stout or other
type of beer.  The different strains of yeast will impart different
flavors to the finished product.

> there another store in Maine (other than the Whip&Spoon, the Purple Foot,
> and the Grainery) or is there a reliable mail order house?  Any addresses
> or phone numbers would be much appreciated.

I'm not sure where else in Maine you could try, but some mail order
places are:
    The Home Brewery        1-800-321-BREW
    Alternative Beverages   1-800-365-BREW
    Brewhaus                1-800-265-BIER

I've only ordered from Alterative Beverages (located in Charlotte, NC)
and had no problem.

> Oh yeah, any idea why a beer would gush when opened warm but not when
> it's been chilled?

Simple physics: A colder liquid can hold more compressed gas than a
warmer one.  However, if you're getting gushers in non-infected brews,
you're probably putting in too much priming sugar or bottling too soon.

> -Nils 'my cup runneth over' Nieuwejaar

BTW, I'll be in Brunswick for a friend's wedding the weekend of
October 12th and probably for a hockey weekend sometime.  If you want
to, we could get together and exchange experiences and homebrew.

Pete Kester '87
pkester at mitre.org

Go U BEARS!

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 21 Aug 91 10:12:14 -0400
From: rsd at silk.udev.cdc.com
Subject: Reply to Homebrew Digest #706 (August 21, 1991) 

In Homebrew Digest #706 Dean Cookson asks:
> I've been wondering, is kegging really worth the starting expense??
> The Cat's Meow lists a couple of places with complete Cornelius
> systems in the $150-$175 range.  Is that a good price??

I am in the process of setting up a kegging system.  I had been 
watching the "business equipment" section of the local
want ads for several weeks.  I finally saw an ad for a restaurant
that had gone out of business and was liquidating its equipment.

I showed up at the restaurant at the appointed hour.   I was 
able to buy two 10# CO2 tanks, two 2 guage regulators and a
half full coke canister (Firestone) for $60.00.   I also met
a fellow who owns and runs a used restaurant equipment company.
He said that he had a supply of used kegs that he could part with
for $5.00 each. 

For comparison, I had been quoted prices of $32 for a new 
regulator, $50 and $70 (two quotes) for CO2 tanks. (empty, $5.32
to fill.)  and $49.95 (used) $89.95 (new) for Cornelilus 
kegs.  My impression is that $32 is a good price for a new
regulator, $50-$70 is a reasonable range for new 5# CO2 cylinders
and that $50 is  a little high for used Cornelius kegs.

I don't have any handle at all on what one should expect to pay
for hoses, fittings etc...

The moral of this story is that it is pretty easy to spend 
$150 to get set up to keg your brew, but that with patience
and a little research you can do much better.

- -----
Richard Dale
rsd at silk.udev.cdc.com





Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 21 Aug 91 11:44:03 EDT
From: larry at evi.com (Larry McCaig)
Subject: Boston brew locations

> Daniel S Robins asks:

> I am going to be heading to New England in the near future and will
> be interested to visit some places of interest with beer as a
> theme.  Specifically, I will be spending a day in Framingham, MA
> and a weekend plus in Conway, NH.  Be they brewpubs,
> microbreweries, or homebrew supply shops, I would appreciate any
> suggestions.

  There is a beer and wine supply in Framingham:

  New England Wine Making Supply
  501 Worcester Road
  Framingham, Ma.
  (508)875-1414

  I went there once perhaps 10 years ago and thought it was rather expensive,
but things can change a lot in that amount of time.

  In Woburn:

  Beer & Wine Hobby
  180 New Boston Street
  Woburn, Ma.
 (617)665-8442

  This is a very well stocked store.
  From Framingham, go east on Rt 9 to Rt 128, then North on Rt 128 to the
  Washington Street Exit. Take a left to the lights, then another left and
  follow this road about 1 mile. They are located in the rear of a warehouse.

  And in Cambridge:

  The Modern Brewer
  Massachusetts Avenue
  Cambridge, Ma.
  (617)868-5580

  This is my favorite store. They are relatively new, but are extremely
helpful. They tend to carry some of the harder to find hopps and yeasts. I
highly recommend this store.

  Although I don't know of any 'Great' drinking locations in Framingham, for
price of a short drive into Boston (about 20 miles), or take the commuter
train into North Station. from here, you could try the
following locations:

  The Commonwealth Brewing Company
  138 Portland Street
  Boston, Ma.
  (617)523-8383

Exit North Station onto Causeway Street. Take a right then your third left.
This is Portland Street, and the Brewpub is a few hundred feet down.

This is a brewpub and restaurant. It has been here for 7 years and has
several brews on tap. They also bottle two or three of their beers. I am not
too familiar with the styles, but do know that they have a stout and I beleive
a pale ale, and a few others.

After you finish here, go back to the 'T' station across from North Station.
Take any train to Park Street Station. Go down stairs and take the Red Line
train outbound to Kendall(MIT) Station. When you come out of the station,
walk through the loby of the Marriott Hotel, turn left and walk about 1/4
mile. The brewpub is on the right.

  The Cambridge Brewing Company
  1 Kendal Square
  Cambridge, Ma.
  (617)494-1994


This is also a Brewpub and Restaurant. They have Amber Ale, Golden Ale,
Pale Ale, and Porter plus one special beer which currently is Scotch Ale. I
like the Pale Ale and Porter the best. All of the food that I have had here
has been excellent.

If you haven't had enough yet, get back on the Red Line outbound to Harvard
station. Right smack in the center of the square at Mass. Ave. and JFK street
is:

  The Wursthaus
  4 John F Kennedy
  Cambridge, Ma.
  (617)491-7110

They have several beers on tap (including Spaten), about 150 beers in bottles,
and excellent German style food.

Now, get back on the Red Line (if you can see the entrance) and head inbound
to Park Street. Go upstairs and take the Commonwealth Ave Green line train,
stay on this until you come to Comm Ave and Harvard Street. Get off, take a 
right onto Harvard Street and follow to Brighton Ave. Take a right and just
around the corner is:

  The Sunset Grill & Tap
  130 Brighton Ave.
  Alston, Ma.
  (617)254-1331

Food is great, there are 14 Taps of which at least one is cider. They also
have many, many beers in bottles (enough to fill a four page menu). Highly
recommended.

In Jamaca Plain there is:

  The Boston Brewing Company
  St Germaine ST ???
  Jamacia Plain, Ma.

This is where some of the Sam Adams beer is made. They have tours and beer
tastings on Mondays, Thursdays, and Saturdays at 2 PM.

We have one other brewery near Northern Ave which makes Harpoon Ale. I don't
have any info on their tour hours, or even the name of the brewery, but someone
should be able to fill you in. The ale is quite nice.

Hope this helps you out a bit. I don't know the area you are going to in New
Hampshire that well so can't help you there. There is a new Brewpub in
Portsmouth (which is on the coast and quite a distance from conway) which I
went to last Sunday. Unfortunately I didn't get to try the beer because the
power was out and they couldn't accept a Visa Card which was my only method
of payment at the time.

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 21 Aug 91 12:05:54 EDT
From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Kegging

On Tue, 20 Aug 91 11:45:00 EDT, cookson at mbunix.mitre.org said:

Dean> is kegging really worth the starting expense??  The Cat's Meow lists
Dean> a couple of places with complete Cornelius systems in the $150-$175
Dean> range.  Is that a good price??  How long will homebrew (ale) keep in
Dean> a keg?

I like kegs -- less work and tho I've never had the problem, no glass
grenades (if you make sure your kegs have overpressure reliefs).

The prices you mention *are* good. I went with Foxx but used my own kegs;
they're a good company to deal with and are very competetive. I got a
double guage regulator so I can see the keg and CO2 pressure.

My only complaint about kegs is that when my friends hear I've `tapped' one,
it doesn't tend to last too long! I've now switched to doing double batches
:-)  I've had a couple batches hanging out for quite some time -- months. I
think it should be as good as bottles because of the CO2 blanket and so on.

Cheers.

- --
One must be drunk always ... If you would not feel the horrible burden of
Time that breaks your shoulders and bows you to the earth, you must
intoxicate yourself unceasingly. But with what? With wine, poetry, or with
virtue, your choice. But intoxicate yourself!     -- Charles Baudelaire

Return to table of contents


Date: Wednesday, 21 Aug 1991 12:23:04 EDT
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re: Grains with Extract

>Date: Mon, 19 Aug 91 07:27:14 EDT
>From: neptune!pryzby at uunet.UU.NET (Greg Pryzby)

>I cracked the grains (w/ a rolling pin) and left them in a bag
>in water at 150-160F for 30 minutes.  I removed the grains and
>added the extract and boiled for 1 hour.

I have taken to sparging the grains to get more from them.  After
I strain them, I put them back in a pot, cover with warm water,
then strain the water into the brewpot--it is often very dark,
too.  I'll also put the grains in my strainer/funnel and pour hot
water over them while the result is still dark.

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
           (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 21 Aug 91 12:27:09 EDT
From: hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Re: yeast production of SO2 


Chip H asks me:

>  are you sure it's SO2 instead of H2S (much more noticeable) that you're
smelling?

Oops, retraction of braindead posting. Yes Chip it is H2S, not SO2 I was
thinking of.... (extremely embarrased look on my face :-)

 - JaH


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 21 Aug 91 09:25:57 PDT
From: polstra!jdp at uunet.UU.NET (John Polstra)
Subject: Re: Lagering problem

In HBD #706, "Jack D. Hill" <jdhill at BBN.COM> asked about an apparent
resurgence of fermentation in a lager he was brewing:

> Last week I noticed the fermentation cap riding low and a marked
> decrease of bubbles. The krausen was thin. Bottling seemed to be in
> order.  Yesterday, I brought up the carboy and let it settle while I
> prepared and cleaned the bottles. After an hour I was getting and
> incredible amount of fermentation activity. Obviously it wasn't ready
> to bottle.

It probably wasn't a renewed fermentation you were seeing.  This is a
normal phenomenon when brewing lager beers.  CO2 is more soluble at
lower temperatures.  During fermentation, a lot of the CO2 that was
produced went straight into solution in the cold wort.  As the wort
warmed up while you were cleaning your bottles, the dissolved CO2 began
to come out of solution, producing the activity that you saw.

Beers that I have lagered at very low temperatures (just above freezing)
have exhibited this effect to the extent that, when warmed up to serving
temperature, they are already rather nicely (if lightly) carbonated.

I'd say go ahead and bottle your beer.

   John Polstra               polstra!jdp at uunet.uu.net
   Polstra & Co., Inc.           ...!uunet!polstra!jdp
   Seattle, Washington USA              (206) 932-6482
   "Self-knowledge is always bad news."  -- John Barth

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 21 Aug 91 09:43:50 PDT
From: chad at mpl.UCSD.EDU (Chad Epifanio)
Subject: Stuff From my Head(semi-long)

Dean asked about "Single vs. 2 stage fermentation":

	I've been told that ales generally do not benifit from
extended aging in the fermenters, and should be bottled within two
weeks(ideally right after fermentation ends).  I've usually found this
to be true, except with the *extremenly* high gravity beers(like
Russian Imperial Stout) or flavored beers(like Raspberry Ale), which
seemed to benifit from a bit longer aging.

	I racked off the trub before fermentation twice, and both
times came up with rather insipid brews; pale and tasteless.  I am now
into all-grain brews, and I get a big cold-break in the kettle.  I've
taken to pouring about half the sediment(thru a strainer) into the
fermenter, and it seems to work OK.

	When my beers are in the primary for more than a week, I
usually rack off the sediment.  Yeast will begin autolysis after about
two weeks or so, so I'm told; I've never let it hang around that long.
Usually I'm more concerned with giving the beer a chance to clear.
After I rack, I get about an inch of precipitation immediatly.
Perhaps the agitation of siphoning shakes some things out of
suspenstion?

	I've used 5-gal and 6.5-gal carboys as primary fermenters, but
now I use a 7-gal plastic bucket with lid.  I like the bucket for many
reasons.  One is that I "recycle" my yeast, and grabbing a cup of
slurry is easy with the bucket.  Another is that it makes very little
mess pouring the wort into the bucket, as opposed to thru the narrow
neck of a carboy.  Still another is the handle, which makes carrying
5.5 gal of beer easy.  Plus its cheaper than the carboys, which I save
for secondary fermentation, and a bit easier to clean.  I know, the
bucket does seem a bit unsanitary compared to a clean glass carboy,
but during active fermentation the yeast should put up a good head and
a blanket of carbon dioxide which protects the beer quite well.
Disadvantages of the bucket are that it scratches easier, and you
can't see when the yeast begins to sediment.


Jack Hill writes about "Lagering Problems":

	Lets assume that you were very carefull, and no contamination
problems occurred.  I see no reason whatsoever why you should see
active fermentation after that long(I've made that same recipe).  You
realize that CO2 is more soluable at cold temps than at warm, and the
yeast would have produced a lot of CO2 by now.  Perhaps what you saw
was the saturated CO2 coming out of solution when the liquid warmed
up???  Five gallons can hold a lot of gas.


Frank has sweet beer:

	Well, I have tried variations of those recipes, but have found
that hopped extracts are not hopped for shit, or at least don't taste
like it.  Try an unhopped extract, and add a good bit of hops to
counter the sweetness.  By the way, 1/2 oz. Bullions may not be enough
for a stout bitterness, but that's just my hophead opinion.  I have
had complete fermentations in two days before, so I don't think that's
the problem.  My beers usually take longer to carbonate than Charlie
says, as well.  They may "dry out" with age.


JaH has repeating articles:
	Just curious.  The last couple seem to be twins.


Kurt askes about "Lauter Tun Set Up":

	I'm unsure of your exact question, but I'll throw this in
instead.  What I've been using successfully is the old sparge bag
method with a twist.  I took a piece of 1/4"od copper tubing(which, by
the way, was left over from my counter-flow wort chiller fiasco), and
bent it aound the bottom of the bucket, connecting the two ends with a
piece of 1/4"id plastic tubing.  Put this circle into the bag, and
wedge it as far down as it will go.  This forces the edges of the bag
tight against the sides, preventing sparge water from running
prematurly down the sides.  I also float the grains with the `ol "loop
the output hose to the level of the grains" trick.  It keeps the
grains from compacting too tightly.


Chad Epifanio                       |  "Go Yeltsin!
Scripps Institution of Oceanography |   Kick some ass!"
Marine Physics Laboratory           |   
chad at mpl.ucsd.edu		    |
================================================================
"All words and ideas are my own, etc., etc..."




Return to table of contents


Date: Wednesday, 21 August 1991 11:25am ET
From: joshua.grosse at amail.amdahl.com
Subject: Low temp. fermentation procedures


In HBD 706, Martin Lodahl wrote about starting liquid yeasts at room
temperature and fermenting at 55 degrees, including a discussion of
underpitching and reculturing.  He said that he usually recultures but
has had successes with pitching directly from the started package.

I just used Wyeast for the first time also, and want to discuss
my first attempt at cold fermentation.  I pitched from the package.

My latest batch is an extremely light wheat beer (SG 1.025) that has
been in the primary for 6 days.  I pitched Wyeast Pilsner when the
wort was just about 86 degrees, and it slowly dropped down into
the 40's while in the 'fridge.  There is about a 1/3 inch kreusen
on top of the wort, though I think it contains mostly coagulates
from the Irish Moss, as its thick and not foamy.  There has been some
outgassing, but not enough to blow the kreusen out the blowout tube.
I replaced the blowout tube (which went into a jar partly filled with
water, so it had a lock) with a standard fermentation lock yesterday.
Based on this slow start, I needn't have bothered with a blowout tube.

When I replaced the blowout and bung with a lock and bung, I sniffed
at the old bung.  NICE ODOR.  So, I'm assured I don't have an infection,
and my only concern is for procedures and temperatures for refridgerated
fermentation.

My wife, who doesn't drink, looked into my fridge and said, "It looks
like someone threw up in there."  She may have meant the thick kreusen,
but she may also have meant the very pale clouds of flocculations that I
can see layered in the carboy.  There are cumulous clouds at the top,
and stratus clouds about two or three inches above the trub.  I believe
these must be yeast.  At first, I thought I might have had the fridge
turned down to low and that ice was forming.  Then, I looked a little
more closely.  Definitely not ice, though I do have vodka in my
fermentation lock, as the top of the carboy is closest to the
refridgeration unit.

The CO2 activity is very slow.  Have I underpitched?  Is it my low SG?
My temp too low?  My temp too high?  Did I pitch too early?  Is there
anything I should do?  shouldn't do?  A thermometer in the fridge is
showing 42 degrees.

Should I be concerned, or should I RDWHAHB?


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 21 Aug 91 13:41:55 -0400
From: m22457 at mwunix.mitre.org (Peter Kester)
Subject: Bottles and Storage
Full-Name: Peter Kester


I'm just catching up on my digest reading and saw your post.  Did you
get any useful suggestions?  How's the brewing going?

Pete

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 21 Aug 91 13:39:27 EDT
From: neptune!pryzby at uunet.UU.NET (Greg Pryzby)
Subject: can i save the yeast cake?

I eas wondering if I could save the yeast at the bottom of the primary
fermenter? After I transfer the wort to a secondary fermenter I was wondering
if I could store the yeast cake for future use. 

Thanks on the "solutions" to my slow start fermentation using liquid yeast. I
now know how to "properly" use liquid yeast. 

peace, 
 greg

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 21 Aug 91 12:14:27 EDT
From: cjh at vallance.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: re brewing legalities

   Congress did not pass a law saying that anyone can brew beer; they
canceled a previous law that said nobody can brew at home. cf after the
18th amendment (prohibition) was canceled by the 21st, many counties and
municipalities remained dry (e.g., Arlington MA), even those where alcohol
was an industry (Jack Daniels' ads say you can't buy it where it's made as
the whole county is dry). If somebody wanted to make an issue about it, the
right-to-privacy elucidated by the Supreme Court in \Griswold/ (ruling out
CT law against contraceptives) could be argued to apply to home brewing,
but it's unlikely anyone wants to take the time and money to fight and the
current Court is mostly opposed to the right-to-privacy.
   I don't think Utah is a dry state; Tim Powers (SF writer) mentioned
picking up a suitcase of Coors on his way from downtown to BYU for a
speech (as a leadin to the fuss when someone noticed the case cooling on
the outside of his windowsill).

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1991 19:09:10 GMT
From: fmayhar at hermes.ladc.bull.com (Frank Mayhar)
Subject: Re : Malt extracts

I'm a (barely) beginning homebrewer, and have been reading with some
concern about nutrient problems in malt extracts.  Does anyone have any
advice on how to alleviate the problem?  As in, what to add to the
extract before fermentation?  Bear in mind that I'm a rank novice at this,
so I'll probably need brand names.  I don't plan to start mashing (even
as an adjunct to the extract) for a good while yet.

I know, "relax, don't worry, and have a homebrew."  I do the first two fine,
it's the third one that I want to get to.
- -- 
Frank Mayhar  fmayhar at hermes.ladc.bull.com (..!{uunet,hacgate}!ladcgw!fmayhar)
              Bull HN Information Systems Inc.  Los Angeles Development Center
              5250 W. Century Blvd., LA, CA  90045    Phone:  (213) 216-6241

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 21 Aug 91 13:58 EDT
From: man at kato.att.com
Subject: Same recipe, same conditions, different ferment times plus NJ store

On August 11, I made a batch of bitter doing a partial mash plus extract
(Miller's Ordinary Bitter).  I've made this before with good results. 
Anyway, I used WYeast's Chico Ale yeast that I used to start a 1 pint
wort mixture.  When the large wort was cool, the starter was at high
krausen and I pitched.  The visible ferment was underway in about 12
hours, but the krausen stayed high. OG 1.055 TEMP during ferment was
72-74 F in my basement.

On August 17, I made another starter of 1 pint and innoculated it with
about 3 oz of the batch made on August 11.  The starter took off immediately.
On August 18, I made the same beer again.  All ingredients came from the same
place. The yeast was from the starter made the previous day.  It smelled fine.
Conditions were the same. OG was the same. TEMP was the same for ferment.

On August 20, the beer made on the 11th was finally nearing completion.
Gravity was 1.010, but the batch still had a slight pancake on it.
The beer made on the 18th was also at 1.010 and had no such pancake.

Both samples taken for the gravity check tasted similar.  Any ideas
as to what would cause a faster ferment ?  Both batches were aerated
the same way (shaking and sloshing) and both had visible signs of
fermentation after about 12 hours.  My 2 guesses are:

1.The first batch did ferment fast and the excessive bubbling was not
  a sign if fermentation per say, but only a sign of excess CO2 or O2 
  being released.

2.The second batch was in reality better aerated and the extra healthy
  starter got the ferment going fast (for all I know it started at 
  midnight).

Supply stores in NJ:

In addition to Wine Hobby in Hillsborough (not recommended at all),
there is Jersey Brewing in Lebanon, NJ.  It is run by Mark Bernick
mostly as a service to the members of MASH.  He does do mail order
and his prices are competitive.  I don't have the number, but he
is listed under his last name (as opposed to Jersey Brewing).
The area code is 908.

Mark Nevar


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 21 Aug 91 13:06:22 PDT
From: "Doug Olson, ISVG West, Mtn View" <olson at sx4gto.enet.dec.com>
Subject: re Frank's excessively sweet first efforts

> From: Frank Tutzauer <COMFRANK at ubvmsc.cc.buffalo.edu>
> Subject: Why is my beer so sweet?
>      2.  Not hopped enough.

Hey Frank, good job on the description.  I, too, like hoppy bitterness to
balance malt sweetness, and as long as you use the (under-)hopped extracts,
you'll end up short on those infernal bittering units.  We tend to use 2 oz
of high-alpha (>10%) hops for an hour in over 2.5 gallons of boiling wort, 
and another 2 oz of medium-high-alpha (4.5-8%) hops for 5 minutes finish.
Bitters it right up.  I'd switch extracts to unhopped varieties posthaste,
but don't worry about your fermentation temps, yeasts, or infections yet;
those aren't your problem.

DougO (aka Slug)

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1991 17:48:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Douglas Allen Luce <dl2p+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Tang (was: Re : Malt extracts)

Excerpts from internet.homebrew-beer: 20-Aug-91 Re : Malt extracts Conn
Copas at loughborough. (1732)

> Lastly, another part-mythical creature : the malt extract 'tang'. Fact or
> fiction ?  

Fact, of course.  I don't think Tang is exactly a malt extract.

A friend of mine (over a pitcher of Sam Adams and some truly fattening
Polish dinners) suggested that Tang might be a good source of
fermentable sugar.  I gave it a try, using one of those 8-in high
bottles of Tang and water to make 1 gallon of liquid (added a tsp. of
yeast nutrient).  Pitched Montrachet wine yeast (dry).  Fermented in a
plastic bucket for 4 days, then in a glass vessel for 4 weeks.  Racked,
and 4 months later, I've a fairly strong wine, just a bit bitter (due to
the high citric acid count -- maybe diluting the original must would fix
that).  

A great party favor!

Douglas Luce
Carnegie Mellon


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 21 Aug 91 09:57 CDT
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: kegging

 
 
 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling
 
 Subject:  KEGGING, BAD NEWS
 
 RE:: cookson at mbunix.mitre.org
 Subject: Kegging
 
 >I've been wondering, is kegging really worth the starting 
 expense??  The Cat's Meow lists a couple of places with 
 complete Cornelius systems in the $150-$175 range.
 
 The good news is that you can make your own for just about 
 nothing.  Just take home a keg of stuff from your local 
 liquor store and water the garden with it.  Remove the bung 
 and replace it with a removable hatch (a few tapped holes 
 and a piece of plexiglas) and you have a keg for the cost of 
 the deposit. 
 
 The BAD NEWS is, the system works so well that it is 
 probably the shortest distance between social drinking and 
 alcoholism, not to mention a belly that looks like the keg.
 
 I attribute my escallation to "over-indulging", to a very 
 large extent, to kegging.  I even had a tap on the outside 
 wall near the swimming pool.  When you don't have to wash 
 bottles and no one is able to count them, it gets real easy 
 to just slosh around in the stuff.
 
 I quit drinking for ten years and have started brewing again 
 but only allow myself one 16 oz bottle every other day.  
 That may not seem to be worth the trouble but first of all, 
 it's not much trouble to meet my current demand but more 
 importantly, it's infinitely better than NO BEER.
 
 >  What's the collective HBD wisdom on these questions?
 
 I can only speak for myself and I say, wash bottles.
 
 jack
 
 
 


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1991 20:04:24
From: kla!kirkish at Sun.COM (Steve Kirkish)
Subject: Explosives and Ginger Ale

In HBD #702, Mitchell M. Evans writes:

>How can I be sure that the bottle I am about to open is not a bomb?
>Any hints would make opening the first bottle of a batch much  less
>traumatic for me, from now on.

Yikes!  Hope the thumb's better now.  Well, I just had a similar (but not so
dramatic) experience with a batch of Ginger Ale (more on *that* in a
moment).  I found one hint that I had bottle-bombs from the cap:  My capper
puts dimples in the caps when it seals.  I lost only two bottles ( :-(, but
at least I weeded out the weak ones...Darwinism in a most peculiar way...),
and I noticed that the dimple in the surviving bottles had popped up. 
Needless to say, I bled it open (the bottle, not my thumb), letting the
pressure leak out more slowly, before popping the cap off.  I also did this
wearing safety glasses (will these become standard issue for making soda?)

Speaking of sodas, the Ginger Ale recipe was the one posted by Bob Gorman,
HBD #685.  I brewed up a batch about 3 weeks ago, using Champagne Yeast.  I
cooled it to 78 F and pitched the yeast, then let it sit for about 9 hours,
in the SS pot, covered, to let it settle out a bit.  Bottled it and put it
aside.  After one week, the carbonation was already phenomenal...pour it in
a glass, and you saw 90% bubbles and 10% liquid.  The aroma was that of a
cheap champagne, and it had very undeveloped flavors of honey and slight
lemon.  After two weeks, not much different.  After 2.5 weeks, I came down
one morning to find bits of glass all over the dining room (fortunately, I
had the bottles in a box.  Glass shards were driven right through the
cardboard, tho.)  I bled the pressure out of the rest of the bottles and
stored them in a box in my ice chest (sans ice.)  The taste was better,
getting somewhat closer to Ginger Ale.  

Now for the questions:

1.  How long should I expect the Ginger Ale to sit in the bottle until it
    tastes like Ginger ale (a time estimate rather than "until it's done"
    would be helpful :-)

2.  Is honey the best thing for this recipe?  What about sugar?  What kind? 
    Corn?  Cane?  Nutrasweet??

3.  What can I do to prevent future batches from blowing up? (This is
    assuming I'm still interesting in using up precious bottles that would
    rather be harboring beer.)  Any hints/tips would be appreciated.

btw, Bob, how did your batch turn out (assuming it's still intact?)

I apologize if this isn't the most appropriate forum for soda-questions, but
it's the best I got.  If you don't want to send it to the HBD, send it
directly to me.

- -- Steve Kirkish, sun.com!kla!kirkish

PS:  I did brew a batch of dark ale [porter?  How do *you* define it?] that
same day [my first batch in about 5 years!]...it's starting to turn out
wonderful, but inspires me to tweak the recipe some and start another batch.
This must be how the rest of you guys and gals got hooked! 


Return to table of contents



End of HOMEBREW Digest #707, 08/22/91
*************************************
-------

---