---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Corn sugar in malt extracts (David J. Sylvester)
  Re: Keggining and other things... (cookson)
  In defense of Arlington, MA (Greg Roody - dtn 237-7122)
  TEXAS Beer (Eric Simmon)
  Homebrew Digest #707 (August 22, 1991) (Greg Kushmerek)
  Homebrew Digest #707 (August 22, 1991) (Greg Kushmerek)
  Re: Brewing Legalities (John DeCarlo)
  Re: Boston brew locations (Kevin L. McBride)
  Re:  Lauter Tun Set Up (Bill Dyer)
  RAPIDS -- not wholesale only (Chris Shenton)
  white stuff (Donald Conover)
  Oatmeal Stout/hops/new home (Timothy Mavor)
  Say what? (Frank Tutzauer)
  poland brewery (Russ Gelinas)
  Haste appears to have made waste (help!) (Katy T. Kislitzin)
  SOME RANDOM HERETICAL THOUGHTS (longish) (Conn Copas)
  kegging startup (florianb)
  Brewing in Utah and New Jersey (Chuck Coronella)
  Brewing Down Under (ANDY HILL)
  Unequal Budweiser (Chuck Coronella)
  Hefe Weizen (korz)
  Norm Hardy's Germany series of last fall (flowers)
  Porter vs. Stout (korz)
  Metallic taste (Darren Evans-Young)
  Iowa vs Minnesota (STROUD)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #707 (August 22, 1991) ("C. Ian Connolly")
  Re: Why is my beer so sweet? (Clarence Dold)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Aug 91 06:49:32 -0400
From: David J. Sylvester <sylveste at wsfasb.crd.ge.com>
Subject: Corn sugar in malt extracts

Hi

	I will be leaving my position here after tomorrow and will no longer
be able to read this digest. I just want to say that I have learned an
amazing amount about homebrewing from the experts who have contributed so
much so well. My thanks to you all!

	As a final $0.02 worth, I just opened the first bottle of an amber
lager I made using a John Bull hopped **lager** extract. This actually came as
part of a lager "kit" that included an unmarked package of yeast and an 
unmarked package of "wort finings" which I later found out was Irish Moss.
I used Whitbread dry lager yeast instead and I added some pellet hops, just to
be sure.

	Overall, the beer had some good qualities. Very crisp and clean, not
too sweet. But I noticed a distinct odor and taste that I couldn't quite put
my finger on. I gave the glass to my wife, whois NOT a beer drinker, and asked
her what it smelled like. Her unbiased reply was "fruity, like cider". !!!!!!!

	I added no other malt (dry or otherwise) and I certainly added no
sugar (except for the 3/4 cup for priming).

	As I recall from the discussion here about sugar in extracts, the group
that did the research would not name the extracts except to say they were
lager extracts. My experience with John Bull (I believe it is called the Master
Lager Kit) would certainly verify this.

	Keep up the good work folks!


Dave
====

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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 91 08:35:21 EDT
From: cookson at mbunix.mitre.org
Subject: Re: Keggining and other things...

[Richard Dale talks about buying used stuff from a deceased
restaurant] 

This seems like the best idea I've heard in a while.  Maybe the
failed Mass. miracle can help me find some cheap kegging supplies.
It looks like I'll still have to go through some place like Foxx 
for the hoses and tap and stuff, but so what...  Maybe the batch
of bitter that's bubbling away in my basement is keg bound.  I
sure wouldn't miss washing out bottles...

[Chris Shenton says]
>My only complaint about kegs is that when my friends hear I've `tapped' one,
>it doesn't tend to last too long!

That may not be such a tradgedy.  I already keep pretty warm in the
winter.  Generally the same way whales do... :-)

[Chad Epifanio says]
>	I've been told that ales generally do not benifit from
>extended aging in the fermenters, and should be bottled within two
>weeks(ideally right after fermentation ends).  I've usually found this
>to be true, except with the *extremenly* high gravity beers(like
>Russian Imperial Stout) or flavored beers(like Raspberry Ale), which
>seemed to benifit from a bit longer aging.

I wasn't really thinking of aging the beer, just getting in away from the
trub, once in settles out.  Also, I'm planning on dry hopping this batch.
Do I just shove the hops down the neck of the carboy, or what??

[Jack Schmidling says]
>The BAD NEWS is, the system works so well that it is 
>probably the shortest distance between social drinking and 
>alcoholism, not to mention a belly that looks like the keg.

I doubt if the former is likely to become much of a problem.  As far
as I've been able to tell, the only thing I'm compulsive about is breathing,
and then only bearly... :-)  As far as the latter goes, that's what my
health club membership is for.

Thanks for all the suggestions folks.  It looks like it's time to start
checking out the forsale ads.

Dean


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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 91 05:58:35 PDT
From: Greg Roody - dtn 237-7122 <roody at necsc.enet.dec.com>
Subject: In defense of Arlington, MA

In HBD 707, Chip Hancock writes that after prohobition, many counties 
remained dry "(e.g. Arlington, MA)".

Well, Arlington is not quite "dry".  There are two restaraunts which have 
liquor licenses and another which is applying for one.  It is true that 
there are no bars or "packies", but I can attest to much homebrewing (hic).

In Arlington, it is more important that you are well connected to 
councilman Charlie Lyons, than anything else.  If he likes you, you can get 
a license for anything.  If not, take a hike.  Arlington would be a much 
nicer town without his garbage.

Isn't small town politics wonderful?

/greg

PS - this is of course, personal opinion.

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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 91 09:20:39 EDT
From: simmon at eeel.nist.gov (Eric Simmon)
Subject: TEXAS Beer


I've got a friend who is moving to Houston Texas in a week (next wednesday to
be exact).  He was wondering what good bars, pubs, clubs, brewpubs,
microbreweries are located in the Houston area.  Anyone have any ideas???

Please Email or Post responses.

Thanks,

Eric Simmon
simmon at eeel.nist.gov

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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 91 09:20:28 -0400
From: gkushmer at jade.tufts.edu (Greg Kushmerek)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #707 (August 22, 1991)

Utah is not a dry state, they just tax the s*** out of anything alcoholic.

- --gk

[Utah must love having the "heathens"in Nevada so close]

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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 91 09:20:28 -0400
From: gkushmer at jade.tufts.edu (Greg Kushmerek)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #707 (August 22, 1991)

Utah is not a dry state, they just tax the s*** out of anything alcoholic.

- --gk

[Utah must love having the "heathens"in Nevada so close]

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Date: Thursday, 22 Aug 1991 09:58:09 EDT
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re: Brewing Legalities

>Date: Wed, 21 Aug 91 12:14:27 EDT
>From: cjh at vallance.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock)

> Congress did not pass a law saying that anyone can brew beer;
>they canceled a previous law that said nobody can brew at home.

As far as I can tell (I am not a lawyer), the federal law
sponsored by Alan Cranston made the homebrewer and home winemaker
exempt from paying any federal taxes on the alcohol produced.
This makes homebrewing legal without the necessity to procure
federal licenses and pay federal taxes.  The law spells out that
it is illegal to brew without paying the federal taxes *unless*
you qualify for the exemption by being an adult and brewing fewer
than 100 gallons (or 200 for multi-adult household).

Of course, as you point out, states may also have applicable laws.

> I don't think Utah is a dry state; Tim Powers (SF writer)
>mentioned picking up a suitcase of Coors on his way from
>downtown to BYU for a speech (as a leadin to the fuss when
>someone noticed the case cooling on the outside of his
>windowsill).

In fact, on a return trip from California, my wife got off the
plane at a stop in Utah, and picked me up some Park City beer.
Pretty good.  I also saw a story on the area that implied that
the ski resort areas (such as Park City) were influential in
repealing some of the anti-alcohol laws in Utah, so they could
sell beer and liquor to tourists.

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
           (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 91 8:22:05 EDT
From: gozer!klm at uunet.UU.NET (Kevin L. McBride)
Subject: Re: Boston brew locations

In HBD #707 larry at evi.com (Larry McCaig) writes:

>[Lotsa nice Boston pub crawl sites]
>

>We have one other brewery near Northern Ave which makes Harpoon Ale. I
>don't have any info on their tour hours, or even the name of the
>brewery, but someone should be able to fill you in. The ale is quite
>nice.

The Mass. Bay Brewing Company.  The brewery is located in a warehouse
and looks more like a working brewery (because it is) than the Boston
Beer Company's brewery.  We went there on our brewery crawl during the
AHA conference.

Nothing much to see unless you are a real micro-brewery freak and get
off on seeing stainless steel tanks, plumbing, concrete floors, and
stacks and stacks of empty F.X. Matt kegs.  This brewery is where they
produce their kegged "products."  Their bottled varieties of Harpoon
are brewed and bottled under contract by Matt.

At the Boston location they also brew a custom contract light beer for
a chain of pizza joints called Bertucci's. (The pizza is better than
the beer.)

The guy who runs the brewery was very hospitable to us during our tour
but made it pretty clear that they don't normally do tours and that
they were making an exception for us.  He seemed really paranoid about
having a bunch of people poking around his brewery and asked people
several times to not touch anything.  He was probably reviewing his
liability policy in his head as Fred Eckhardt walked around behind the
fermenters.

It was also dreadfully hot inside.  Perfect excuse for him to whip out
a couple of pitchers and a stack of cups and offer us some free beer.
(Free Beer!) The Harpoon Ale is (IMHO) better when drawn straight off
the bright beer tank than when poured from a bottle, but then most
beers are.  They're usually free at that point and you KNOW they're
fresh. :-)

>Hope this helps you out a bit. I don't know the area you are going to in New
>Hampshire that well so can't help you there.

Conway, NH ain't what it used to be.  It used to be a quaint sleepy
little New England town.  My family has a place in Conway and I spent
my summers there when I was a kid.  Now it's Factory Outlet Hell and
there are no really good places to go drinking.  There are some really
good restaurants in the area and they all have pretty reasonable wine
lists, but they don't serve any really interesting beers.  The pubs
cater mostly to the Bud swilling general public.  I'm sure that there
is a place in town where you can get a pint of Bass, but I haven't
seen it.  There are a LOT of places and I haven't been to all of them
recently.  Your best bet would be to check out the lounge at the
Eastern Slopes Inn.  After that, you're on your own.

Outside of the downtown area is some excellent nature sight seeing,
and there are a couple of really awesome fishing holes, but I'm not
telling.  Conway also has its slummy section which you'll get to see
if you take a ride on the Conway Scenic Railroad.

- -- 
Kevin

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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 91 10:01:50 CDT
From: dyer at marble.rtsg.mot.com (Bill Dyer)
Subject: Re:  Lauter Tun Set Up

Kurt Swanson writes in HBD #706

>	To those of you using the bucket within a bucket lauter tun (w/the
>hundreds of drilled holes), what kind of buckets do you use?  I have 2 of the

I just did my first all grain batch last weekend and I built one of these 
lauter tuns.  I used a seven gallon fermenting bucket inside a 5 gallon
bottling bucket.  This left about 1.5 inches between the 2 bottoms.  This 
left just enough room for one of those plastic spigots.  The setup worked 
quite well.  When I was looking for buckets for this thing, I found that 
some buckets fit inside each better than others.  The 7 gallon bucket 
works well because it has a larger distance from the flanges to the bottom 
than the 5 gallon  bucket.  I got these buckets at Alternative Garden Supply,
which isn't too far from you.  Hope this helps.

 -Bill
_____________________________________________________________________________
|  you'll think I'm dead, but I sail away   |Bill Dyer  (708) 632-7081      |
|  on a wave of mutilation                  | dyer at motcid.rtsg.mot.com      |
|                     -Pixies               | or  uunet!motcid!dyer         |

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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 91 11:20:08 EDT
From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: RAPIDS -- not wholesale only

On Wed, 21 Aug 1991 9:52:06 EDT, R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas) said:

Russ> Rapids phone number is (800) 553-7906.  Ask for a catalog.  They'll
Russ> ask if it's for a business.  Say yes; they are wholesale only.

I've never had any problem, as a non-business-type human. I also asked them
if they would sell me a professional oven. ``Sure'', they said: ``some of our
staff have done the same''. (No problem for an individual, just the postage
would be $300 :-()

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Date: Wed, 21 Aug 91 20:52:37 -0400
From: conover at c1south.convex.com (Donald Conover)
Subject: white stuff

I recently went to a pure malt extrat batch ( no sugar).  I ened up with
a batch that had this white stuff growing in it.  What a disappointment.
I have been using a plastic fermenter , but went to a 6 gaalon glass carboy.
Will you please tell me what the white stuff was.  I live close to Orlando 
Florida and my brew usually ferments at about 78-80 F.  I also have recently
gone to sterilize my equipment with chlorine bleach.  Was I just careless with
sanitation??  Thanks in advance.........don



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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 91 12:31:59 -0400
From: Timothy Mavor <tmavor at pandora.cms.udel.edu>
Subject: Oatmeal Stout/hops/new home



Concerning Oatmeal Stout recipes, my recent batch of Bachelor Stout (made
the night before my wedding!) used Steel Cut Oats (24oz) for 6 gallons.
I found the head retention to be very good.  I would think that with Rolled
Oats that clarity would be a problem.  I got the recipe off of the digest, but
if anyone wants it I will post it/ email it.  Of the several recipes that
I have seen, this seemed to have the most success for others.  I thought
it was good, but am willing to test others! ;)

This year I attempted to grow my own hops, but didn't get the rhizomes in
the ground til mid May, so no harvest is likely for me this year :(
However, how should I "winterize" them?  Should the bases be covered with some
mulch-like material?  Would fertilizing be helpful?  Should I trim the vines
back?  When??  The plants are growing at my parents in Mass., so there is 
frost.  Is this a major concern?

I have recently moved down to the U. of Del. and am looking for brewpubs and
homebrew supply stores in the area.  Any suggestions in the area from about
Philadelphia down to Balt?  I looked at a recent HBD with the listings of
all micro's and brewpubs but found there to be none in Delaware!  Any help
would be greatly appreciated.

_______________________________________________________________________________
It's not just homebrewing.......
				It's Chemical Engineering, Fluids and Sorcery!
_______________________________________________________________________________


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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 91 13:19 EDT
From: Frank Tutzauer <COMFRANK at ubvmsc.cc.buffalo.edu>
Subject: Say what?

     Everything I've learned about brewing (so far) has been from reading. 
Other than netfriends, I don't know a single soul who brews (yet).  I've never
even SPOKEN about brewing to anyone except my wife, and she knows less than I
do, although she is responsible for getting me started.  (She bought a bunch
of books and gave them to me because she thought brewing would be a cool thing
to do--she was right.)  As you've undoubtedly noticed, brewing has a quite
colorful vocabulary.  Unfortunately, my reliance on the printed, rather than
spoken, word means there are many terms about which I am absolutely clue-free
concerning how to pronounce them.  I learned how to say "kraeusen" from Old
Style beer commercials, and "wort" and "trub" are no problem because EVERYBODY
tells you how to pronounce those.  But what about:

        gyle           -- hard g or soft?
        lauter tun     -- is it ton?  toon?  tuhn?
        Papazian       -- Puh PAY zee uhn?  Pap a ZEE un?
        Saaz           -- saz?  soz?  sa-oz?
        Wyeast         -- Why yeast?  Why NOT yeast?
        Fuggles        -- one of those words that's probably pronounced like 
                          it's spelled, but looks as though it shouldn't be 
                          pronounced like it's spelled.
        Reinheitsgebot -- gimme a break.... (Actually, with a nice German name 
                          like Tutzauer you'd figure I'd be able to say this 
                          one.  What can I tell you?  I'm very far removed
                          from my heritage.)

While we're on the subject of words, I would like to comment that brew jargon
is, IMHO, very strange.  About half of it is scientific/technical sounding
stuff (counter-flow wort chiller, diastatic enzymes, autolysis) but the other
half is downright goofy (carboy? bung? barm? sparge??).  Cheesh!

                 

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Date:    Thu, 22 Aug 1991 13:23:25 EDT
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: poland brewery

     Has anyone ever heard of any breweries in Poland?  My brother-in-law has
been in contact with some brewery in Poland, and they've been discussing
using some of his machine shop space to open a US branch. (!)  I guess the
brewery VP is sending over a case or 2 for us, I mean him :-), to check out.
Supposedly they use quality materials and make good beer, but I'm suspicious.
The VP said that no Polish beer is currently exported, so they're trying to
be the first, in a way.

     Any of you world travelers been to Poland?

     On a different note, is it possible for tap water to have a pH of 4.5?
That's what the papers say.  My wife, who worked for the water company, said
that the water they pump out is 7.0.  I've got a friend who thinks she can
get me a digital pH meter, so I'd know for sure then, but in the mean time,
what gives?  The papers do show alkalinity when I add baking soda to the water,
so they at least work somewhat.

Russ

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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 91 10:32:17 -0700
From: ktk at nas.nasa.gov (Katy T. Kislitzin)
Subject: Haste appears to have made waste (help!)

Hello!  Well, as I am having a party on Saturday, I wanted to have
homebrew to serve my guests.  As I only had one brew ready to go,
about 2 weeks ago my SO and I did a brew.  We used an unhopped amber
extract, 1 C cracked crystal malt, 1/2 oz of bullion hops, and reused
Wyeast #1098, British Ale yeast.  We had been planning a stout for our
next beer, but since we were in a hurry, we tried to do a beer that
would ferment and age quickly, while still using up ingredients we had
on hand.

All went well until it came time to "bottle".  We decided to keg the
beer, a first for us.  We purchased the equipment, including a
keg that had been mostly full of root beer.  This was the end of my
involvement in the process, btw.  When we got home, eric rinsed the keg
several times with water, but did not bleach or use any detergent
because the keg was clearly sterile (nothing had been growing in the
root beer syrup, after all).  He used *no* priming sugar and just
racked the beer from the fermenter into the keg.  The plan was to use
the CO2 from the canister to carbonate the beer.

Last night I tried some of it, which has been kegged since
Sunday night.  There was a huge head which dissipated quickly and the
beer was flat, to my taste.  The beer was warmish, and is clearly
meant to be served cold, but the big problem was that it had a root
flavor.  I am reluctant at this point to serve this to my guests, but
am wondering if the net has any suggestions to a) improve it in time
for the party (tomorrow, by the time you get this) or b) salvage it in
an arbitrary length of time.

I only have about 3 six packs of other homebrew, an amber which I am
especially fond of!

Please email your suggestions as I am clearly in a time crunch,

- --kt

============================================================================
Katy Kislitzin, ktk at nas.nasa.gov, ...!{ames, uunet}!nas.nasa.gov!ktk

Systems Programmer, Networks 
Numerical Aerodynamic Simulation Project, NASA/Ames  +1 415 604 4622

[NASA/Ames is in Mt. View CA.  I live in the Santa Cruz Mountains
with my S.O. Eric, and cats Sid, Zippy, Nickel & Copper]
============================================================================

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Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1991 10:47:25 +0000
From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas at loughborough.ac.uk>
Subject: SOME RANDOM HERETICAL THOUGHTS (longish)

For the sake of a discussion, thought I would stick my neck out and invite
public decapitation ! The gist of my argument is that I sometimes wonder
whether, in our efforts to imitate professional brewers, we occasionally
miss the point.


1) Sparging

To a chemical engineer, sparging is a solvent extraction problem. Theory
says that a series of small extractions are more efficient than one big
extraction, with sparging being the ultimate extension of this approach.
So, for example, if one wishes to pass 6 gallons of water through a mash, a
series of 2 gallon rinses is better than one 6 gallon rinse, and sparging
is better still. On the other hand, sparging causes lots of problems (for
some), as witnessed by all the discussion of set mashes and home lauter tun
design. We have all read about the dire consequences of washing sediment
into the boiler, but maybe this is an illusory problem. What about simply
leaving the wort to settle, then racking into the boiler ? On the occasions
when I have had to leach the grains because of a set mash, I can't say that
either efficiency or beer quality has suffered noticeably.

More heretically still, we've seen recent recommendations to add boiler
trub to the fermenter in order to ensure depth of flavour. Food for
thought, huh ?


2) Boiling Times

We see recommendations for EXTRACT boiling times ranging from nil up to 2
hours. Given that the extract has previously been condensed (probably under
vacuum, at a temperature less than 100 C), it is reasonable to presume that
at least a partial hot break has already occurred. I've personally found no
advantages in boiling extracts longer than 10 minutes, although obviously
hop bitterness extraction takes longer than that. Even regarding full
mashed brews, Alexander cautions against over-boiling on the grounds that
excess protein precipitation can reduce the beer's head retention. Does
anybody have any experience in this area ?


3) Wort Chilling

A commercial-size brew will take days to cool at room temperature, so the
professionals inevitably resort to using heat-exchangers. Most homebrews
will cool overnight. Once again, we have been warned of the consequences of
defective cold breaks, but my limited experiments have shown this not to be
a particularly significant problem. Granted, you may be anxious to pitch
the yeast and prevent infection, but isn't this also a criticism of the
environment that you are brewing in ?


4) Unmalted Adjuncts

Unmalted adjuncts are cheaper than malt and, in days gone by, were even
cheaper than sugar. So they found favour in brewery practice. Admittedly,
some adjuncts convey desirable properties on the beer, eg, wheat for head
retention, rice for lightness of flavour without sacrificing body (yes,
some people like this), and even (yechh!) the flavour of maize has come to
be appreciated by some misguided individuals :-)

But consider this. You are making a stout and the recipe calls for flaked
barley. Why not simply add more malt ? Does the flaked barley possess
anything that the malt does not (like different proteins maybe) ?


5) Hop Drying

Commercial hops are fast-dried at high temperatures, then often dusted with
sulphur as a preservative. We don't need to imitate the second step, and
I'm not so sure that we need to imitate the first. The standard method of
home-drying most herbs is to place them in a dark, ventilated position at
room temperature for about 3 weeks. This method certainly has advantages as
far as retaining volatiles goes. Secondly, the method encourages a limited
type of curing, in which the green chlorophyll in the plant becomes
degraded. Great if you're planning to smoke hops, but probably also does
have flavour advantages for the brew !


Yours in alchemy 

Conn V Copas                                   tel : (0509)263171  ext 4164
Loughborough University of Technology          fax : (0509)610815
Computer-Human Interaction Research Centre            
Leicestershire  LE11 3TU                    e-mail -    
G Britain                         (Janet):C.V.Copas at uk.ac.lut  
                     (Internet):C.V.Copas%lut.ac.uk at nsfnet-relay.ac.uk







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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 91 12:45:14 PDT
From: florianb at chip.cna.tek.com
Subject: kegging startup

In Homebrew Digest #706 Dean Cookson asks:
> I've been wondering, is kegging really worth the starting expense??
> The Cat's Meow lists a couple of places with complete Cornelius
> systems in the $150-$175 range.  Is that a good price??


And  rsd at silk.udev.cdc.com  replies.  May I add:

I got started in kegging by asking my wife to buy me a basic setup
from Steinbart's (CO2 tank, valve, fittings, and one keg), then 
obtaining other parts elsewhere.  Both Rapids and Foxx have all kinds
of fittings and parts at good prices.  The biggest issue for me
was where to get used kegs.  Finally, after messing around with
older kegs (like Firestone, which is discontinued), I asked the
manager of the local Pepsi bottling company to sell me kegs.  Now,
I can purchase their regular, used, excellent kegs for a farthing
(wish I could say how much, but I will say it is at their cost!).

There is something to be said for starting with a new, clean setup
like I did.  It's nice to be able to keg right away with new
equipment minus all the hassles of used junk that doesn't seal, etc.



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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 91 14:21 MTS
From: Chuck Coronella <CORONELLRJDS at CHE.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Brewing in Utah and New Jersey


My eye was caught by Lee Katman's questions/comments.  I moved from New
Jersey to Utah about four years ago, and I have really felt the difference
in attitudes to alcohol.  Utah is not actually a dry state, contrary to
popular belief; it just seems that way.  In Utah, I can buy more
BudMilloorselob than I could possibly want (at 3.2% v/v alcohol).  In fact,
I can buy these beers at convenience stores, making them MORE accesible in
Utah than in NJ.  However, I cannot get the more interesting beers, like
Sierra Nevada, anywhere in this state.   To continue the comparison
between my two home states, hard liquor is FAR more easily accesible in NJ
than in Utah.  There are a limited number of state owned and operated
liquor stores here, with really bizarre hours.  Who the hell can tell,
before 9 p.m., that they're gonna want a bottle of vodka tonight, anyway? 
In Utah, the laws involving drinking in bars and restaurants are far too
numerous to go into here.  Just trust me that the division between church 
and state is nearly invisible.  (An interesting sidenote-  a good friend of
mine from Iran tells me that, in Iran, all non-Moslems would be allowed to
brew there own beer!!! ;-) 

Surprisingly enough, Utah and NJ are alike in the fact that homebrewing is
illegal in both;  the difference is that action is under way in NJ to
change this.  Anyway, it's not much of a problem for me, since there are
two homebrew supply shops in town (supporting an illegal industry!) But
perhaps the most interesting contrast between the two states is that I know
of at least an order of magnitude more homebrewers in Utah than in NJ. 
Wild, ehh?  There must be some kind of antiestablishmentaryism (?) at work 
here.

From behind the Zion curtain,
Chuck

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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 91 08:37 M
From: ANDY HILL <VIOLATOR at MATAI.vuw.ac.nz>
Subject: Brewing Down Under

G'day!

I'm new to this group so 'scuse my ignorance....

Anyway, I was wondering whether there are any brewers around NZ who would be 
interested in swapping some recipes, ideas, hints, etc... E-mail me at the
address below if interested.

One question I do have.... I have a few books on home-brewing, some American,
some English. The names of the hops in the recipes (such as Fuggles, etc...)
aren't readily available here (not that I know of) but we have types such as
Sticklebract, Super Alpha, Green Bullet, etc... Could someone perhaps give me 
some sort of direction as to which ones are interchangeable?

Cheers (hic!)

Andy
(violator at matai.vuw.nz.ac)

DISCLAIMER: I didn't do it, honest!
LITTLE MEANINGFUL MESSAGE THINGY: Here's to life in the so-called space age.
JOKE: <still thinking up one>
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 91 15:19 MTS
From: Chuck Coronella <CORONELLRJDS at CHE.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Unequal Budweiser

Greetings, 

Here in Utah, the beer sold in most stores (except in state operated liquor
stores and some private clubs) is by law limited to 3.2% (by volume)
alcohol.  I understand the same is true with a few other states.  I guess
this must create a significant hardship for the smaller breweries, since I
am unable to find beers from any microbreweries and most imports.  Let's be
generous and assume that the smaller breweries have dedicated brewmasters
who are unwilling to compromise.  Anyway, we have available all your
favorite brands- Bud, Old Milwaukee, Coors, Miller, Kestone, etc. as well
as some imports- Heineken and Molsen are two that come to mind. 

My question is this- what is the percent of alcohol in most of these beers
otherwise?  This is perhaps to broad of a question.  How about telling me
simply, what is the strength of Budweiser, the all-American classic, (for
good or bad, let's not get into that now) outside of Utah.  I have heard
both that 1) These MegaBreweries brew special low alcohol beers for the 3.2
market, and that 2) The beer is the same everywhere. Of course, the federal
law prohibiting the listing of strength serves to obfuscate the issue. 

Let's hear it- how unequal are all Budweisers created? 

Cheers,

Chuck

P.S.  I'll take a homebrew over a Bud anyday.

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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 91 10:07 CDT
From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
Subject: Hefe Weizen

Mike--
Tucher *does* make a hefe weizen as well as a kristal.  My taste has
changed since the discovery of English and Belgian beers, but when I
used to drink weizen, I liked the Tucher Hefe and Paulaner Hefe.  If
you want to try a *really bad* weizen, try Faust.  Yuk!
Al.
korz at ihlpl.att.com

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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1991 16:53:36 -0600
From: flowers at csrd.uiuc.edu
Subject: Norm Hardy's Germany series of last fall

As I needed the typing practice, and since there has been some interest, I
re-entered the series of six articles that Norm Hardy wrote about his trip
to Germany last July.  Still very good (the articles, not my typing).

If anyone would like a copy of this re-electrified series, I will email it
to you.  I typed it into Word on a Mac, but it will convert to Ascii very
easily.

I know what you're thinking..."Why did he do this?"  Well, I thought it
might be useful and I didn't want to mess around retrieving the old digests
from the library server.  Also it served an interesting exercise to hone my
newfound typing skills.

Norm, you give a recipe (including procedures) at the end of the last
article.  Would you care to comment on the outcome of that batch? It sounds
pretty tasty.

Since I am now interested in brewing established styles of beer, I found
the series more interesting than the first time around.

 -Craig Flowers
 (flowers at csrd.uiuc.edu)


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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 91 11:56 CDT
From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
Subject: Porter vs. Stout

A number of days ago, I wrote about a stout I brewed that ended
up tasting like a porter.  I got mail from someone (sorry, I forgot
who) saying I had it all wrong... that stout is associated with
a roasted barley flavor and porter is not.  I sent email back
continuing to argue my position.  Yesterday, I checked Papazian
and sure enough, according to Charlie, I'm wrong.

Now, I plan to investigate this more to find out where I got mixed-
up.  I plan to compare my beer with my benchmarks for sweet stout
(Tooth's Sheaf Stout & Mackeson's Triple Stout) and porter (Anchor
Porter).  Maybe I just haven't had my benchmark beers for too long
a time.
Al.

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Date:         Thu, 22 Aug 91 17:15:33 CDT
From: Darren Evans-Young <DARREN at UA1VM.UA.EDU>
Subject:      Metallic taste

I've been plagued by a slight metallic taste in some of my brews, not all.
It couldn't be sterilant. I overrinse, if that's possible.
I think I've discovered the source.  The copper scrubbers that I use
over the end of my siphon pickup.  They are NOT pure copper, just
copper coated..a thin one at that.  I've been reusing them instead of
using a new one each time.  For those that use them, use a new one
each time.  It's not worth sacrificing 5 gals of homebrew to save 59 cents.
Also, I boil my new ones in a vinegar/water solution to remove any tarnish
and/or manufacturing oils/gunk.

Darren E. Evans-Young
The University of Alabama

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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1991 16:24 EST
From: STROUD%GAIA at sdi.polaroid.com
Subject: Iowa vs Minnesota

In HBD #707, Russ Gelinas writes:

>I believe Rapids is located in Iowa, which would lead to lower shipping costs
>to most of the US than from Minnesota.


Huhhh?  Last time I looked, Iowa and Minnesota were located right next to each 
other.  Why should shipping costs to New Hampshire be different whether shipped 
from IA or MN?

Steve 

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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 91  20:54:25 EDT
From: "C. Ian Connolly" <connolly at cs.umass.edu>
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #707 (August 22, 1991)

From buchman at marva1.dco.DEC.COM (Dances with Workstations):
>	- Will it be sufficient to just put the bottles in the refrigerator,
>on the theory that cold beer holds more carbonation and so is less likely
>to blow up? I hate to chill good stout but will do so if necessary.

My last batch was a stout that started gushing only one day after
bottling.  Luckily, I usually sample a bottle a day right after bottling
to see how they're coming along (i.e., I can't resist).  Finding two
gushers, I put all the bottles in the refrigerator, which arrested the
process pretty well.  They came out a tad undercarbonated and a bit
sweeter than I'd planned on, but quite drinkable and no bombs.
				-CC

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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 91 22:04:49 PDT
From: Clarence Dold <dold at tsdold.Convergent.COM>
Subject: Re: Why is my beer so sweet?

Speaking of underhopped, sweet, and extract in the same breath:

> best bet is to stop using hopped extract (the reason alot of people
> advise mashing is to have more control over the beer than using

My first batch of Hopped Malt Extract brew tasted a lot like apple cider
at the end of two-three weeks.  After 4 it was good.  After 6 it was very
good, but it was gone.

15 years later, I still brew hopped malt extracts because I like it.
I have brewed only two all malt batches.  I didn't like them.  I have
tried unhopped, adding hops.  I didn't like that either.

I have had brew made by a lot of folks that are serious about their
brewing (try an SCA chapter).  I like mine.  I do not like heavy hops, in
fact the 'Beer Maker's Australia' Pilsener is a hopped malt extract kit
that borders on too hoppy for my tastes.

That does bring on another thought though.  I read in Zymurgy that some
extract manufacturers were providing an all-malt recipe, without the corn
sugar additions.  Is this just an "alternate" recipe, or is it a different
malt?  If all you do is make three gallons with no sugar, as opposed to 5
gallons with sugar, with the same malt and hops, it sounds like one or the
other of the recipes is faulty.

- -- 
- ---
Clarence A Dold - dold at tsmiti.Convergent.COM
               ...pyramid!ctnews!tsmiti!dold


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #708, 08/23/91
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