HOMEBREW Digest #711 Wed 28 August 1991
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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Central Mass Brewclub. (Greg_Habel)
stuff (Russ Gelinas)
Re: ???Aluminum Kegs/Mead/Chemistry??? (Chris Shenton)
Yeast infection? (agar plate culture) (Chris Shenton)
please add to list (Davin Lim)
An interesting epitaph... (Keith Winter)
3.2 beer (Jon Binkley)
Calling Tim(?) from .cms.udel (Chad Epifanio)
The magic of brewing. ("DRCV06::GRAHAM")
DC beer (Eric Simmon)
Judge Ye Not All Extracts As Altered (Chad Epifanio)
Re: Homebrew Digest #710 (August 27, 1991) ("Norbert Vicente")
("Roger Deschner")
Root Beer (larryba)
Re : cidery tastes (Conn Copas)
Holland info (STAFINIAK)
Rapids and good looks (florianb)
Molasses (Chuck Cox)
Re: Beer proof plug information request (Dieter Muller)
Re: Utah Brew (Dieter Muller)
That Satanic Mead (FATHER BARLEYWINE)
re: beer plug request... (ANDY HILL)
Aluminum kegs -> stainless HBD 710 (John L. Isenhour)
Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 91 07:45:28 edt
From: Greg_Habel at DGC.MCEO.DG.COM
Subject: Central Mass Brewclub.
Awhile back I asked if anyone knew of a brewclub in the Central Mass
area. The responses I received confirmed that there are no brewclubs
in the Central Mass area. Extra extra read all about it! A home
brewers and vintners supply shop from Upton Mass is looking to start
up a club. So far there are 4 people interested and we are looking
for more before the club is officially started. You may contact
Scott or David at (508) 529-6014 or 1-800-626-2371 if you are
interested in joining. By the way their prices are excellent and
they are willing to get anything you need.
Looking forward to meeting more homebrewers. Greg.
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1991 9:58:27 EDT
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: stuff
Ok, if you go north from Iowa, you end up in Minnesota. I was right the
first time. That's enough of that.
Martin L., you may be right, I might be confusing Rapids with Carolina Bio.
Supply re. individuals vs. businesses.
I'm definitely confused this week. Lack of sleep I guess.
I've got a half-batch that's been fermenting 16 days now, with Wyeast Chico
Ale yeast. It's still in the primary, and it's about done. It's also about
time for another batch, and I'd like to reuse the yeast. F. Barleywine's
mysticism aside, I don't want to just pour the wort onto the yeast cake in
the carboy; there's a solid line of crud about halfway up that I'd rather
avoid. So I was thinking of bottling the half-batch, and setting aside the
first and last bottles (to be sure I get the one with the most yeast, if you
follow my logic), and pitch those into the next batch. Isn't that the way
it was done (more or less) for centuries, before yeast cultures were made
available? Having the yeast in bottles would also loosen up the timetable
(somewhat) for the new batch. And it does add a nice touch of that mysticism,
sacrificing some current brew for the future (hmmm, vaguely pagan mysticism at
that, how appropriate).
Russ
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 91 11:11:07 EDT
From: Chris Shenton <chris at endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: ???Aluminum Kegs/Mead/Chemistry???
On Tue, 27 Aug 1991, KENYON%MOE%erevax.bitnet at pucc.PRINCETON.EDU said:
Chuck> I have kegged a batch of beer in Aluminum Anheuser-Busch kegs. The
Chuck> problem is, on both occasions the kegged beer came out substantially
Chuck> darker (more amberer??) than I had anticipated. Darker in fact,
Chuck> than some of the same batch that I had bottled alongside the keg
Chuck> brew.
Are you sure that it's aluminum, not stainless? I thought that's why
brewers liked them -- they're *stainless*. You might want to check
some of the past HBDs for some discussion on how to determine what it is...
Anyone else? tell if I'm wrong here -- I've got a couple BUD kegs which
I've been blithely assuming were painless (sic) steel.
If it is *not* aluminum, then forget it (:-) and stop worrying.
As for more useful information -- like why your beer's turning amber, I
can't offer anything helpful. Sorry.
- --
If I don't smoke, someone else will.
-- Erik Satie
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 91 11:17:18 EDT
From: Chris Shenton <chris at endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Yeast infection? (agar plate culture)
I snarfed some unfiltered weizenbier from a brewpub and marked up an
wort-agar plate with it a couple days ago. Now I find a couple funny
looking areas on it, dark blue-green in the center with white surrounding
areas looking kinda furry. I assume this is *not* what I want?
Seems kind of early to see any signs of life that I *want*; I would have
thought it would take about a week to see desired critters. Can I just let
it hang out for a while and see if I get colonies along the streak line I
made, or will the plate get infected by these invaders?
Anyone care to describe what a weizenbier yeast from Weihenstephen looks
like? (furry, not green in the center, etc?)
Thanks.
- --
I would not be without suffering; I owe so much of my art to suffering.
-- Edvard Munch
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 91 10:58:52 MDT
From: raid5!limd at devnull.mpd.tandem.com (Davin Lim)
Subject: please add to list
Hi!
Please add me to the HBD mailing list
My address is raid5!limd at devnull.mpd.tandem.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 91 8:57:28 PDT
From: winter at cirrus.com (Keith Winter)
Subject: An interesting epitaph...
A friend here at work showed me a picture he took when he was in the
UK a while back. I thought it might be of interest to the digest folks.
I'm not sure I understand some of the phrasing and terminology, but I
think by 'small' they mean 'weak'. I wonder if weak beer had a tendency
to become infected on hot days during that time period (?). Anyway,
here it is:
In Memory of
Thomas Thetcher
a Greadier in the North Reg.
of Hants Militia, who died of a
violent Fever contracted by drinking
Small Beer when hot the 12th of May
1764. Aged 26 Years.
In grateful remembrance of whose universal
good will towards his Comrades, this Stone
is placed here at their expence, as a small
testimony of their regard and concern.
Here sleeps in pease a Hamphshire Grenadier,
Who caught his death by drinking cold small beer.
Soldiers be wise from his untimely fall
And when ye're hot dring Strong or none at all.
This memorial being decay'd was restored
by the Officers of the Garrison A.D. 1781.
An honest Soldier never is forgot
Whether he die by Musket or by Pot.
******************************************************************************
Keith Winter, Cirrus Logic, Inc., Milpitas, CA (winter at cirrus.com)
******************************************************************************
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 91 10:14:08 -0600
From: Jon Binkley <binkley at beagle.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: 3.2 beer
In digest #708, Chuck Coronella wrote:
>Here in Utah, the beer sold in most stores (except in state operated liquor
>stores and some private clubs) is by law limited to 3.2% (by volume)
>alcohol. I understand the same is true with a few other states.
In Colorado, grocery stores are limited to selling 3.2% alcohol *BY WEIGHT*
beer. I can't swear to it, but I'm pretty sure the other states that
deal with 3.2 beer measure in % by weight also.
>I guess
>this must create a significant hardship for the smaller breweries, since I
>am unable to find beers from any microbreweries and most imports. Let's be
>generous and assume that the smaller breweries have dedicated brewmasters
>who are unwilling to compromise. Anyway, we have available all your
>favorite brands- Bud, Old Milwaukee, Coors, Miller, Kestone, etc. as well
>as some imports- Heineken and Molsen are two that come to mind.
These are the only ones available in our grocery stores as well. Liquor stores
can sell more potent stuff, but not on Sundays. (Funny though, I can't
seem to find anything in the State constitution which would validate
Sunday being treated differently from any other day of the week!)
>My question is this- what is the percent of alcohol in most of these beers
>otherwise?
Well, first of all, 3.2% by weight is about 3.9% by volume. This is pretty
close to the figures I've heard for the Standard American Lager, and actually
higher than the Standard American Lite. Now this is pure speculation on
my part, but I'd wager that the 3.2 Bud carried at 7-11 is identical to the
"high-point" Bud carried at Liquor stores; I'd bet the family farm (if there
was one) that Bud Lite is the same at both localities. From personal experience,
I got just as drunk in college drinking 3.2 beer as I did drinking the stuff
from Liquor stores.
Luckily, since I started homebrewing I haven't had to deal with any of it!
Jon Binkley
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 91 09:20:58 PDT
From: chad at mpl.UCSD.EDU (Chad Epifanio)
Subject: Calling Tim(?) from .cms.udel
Sorry I didn't get back to you, Tim. I lost your e-mail address.
Here is the address for Alternative Beverage:
114-O Freeland Lane
Charlotte, NC 28217
ORDER LINE: 1-800-365-BREW
ADVICE LINE: (704)527-9643
- --Chad Epifanio
Return to table of contents
Date: 27 Aug 91 12:36:00 EDT
From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <graham%drcv06.decnet at drcvax.af.mil>
Subject: The magic of brewing.
I couldn't resist commenting on the latest "brewing is magic" thread.
Thank you Father Barleywine, you inject just the right amount of insanity
whenever it's needed. [grin]
I love the science of brewing. I love learning of the many chemical
reactions and the exotic sugars and proteins that go to make up a delicious
brew. However, when I put kettle on stove and open up some ingredients, I
forget the science and enter into the magic world of the 11th century
alchemist. If I had a cone hat with stars and moons on it, a la Merlin,
I'd wear it when I brew. I use the science to plan things, but the
execution is strictly under the control of the netherworld.
Although I cannot prove it scientifically, I am convinced that the universe
responds to attitudes. I am in total agreement that my attitude towards my
beer will influence its outcome. (This is going to convince you that I'm a
certified loon.) I can command away the microbes that could damage my
brew, and command to action those that make it what it should be. (Do I
really mean that ... well ... I'm not discounting it completely.)
Although I'm not nuts on the most popular of the homebrew books, the advice
to "relax" is the best that could be given. Oh yes, be sure you talk
nicely to the yeast. (In fact, they really like Bach and Vivaldi,
especially the concerti grosii.)
See, I told you that I was crazy ... but that is all right because I make
good beer.
Dan Graham,
Beer made with the Derry air.
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 91 13:28:30 EDT
From: simmon at eeel.nist.gov (Eric Simmon)
Subject: DC beer
Ok so I'm from DC and think I know of a few good places for beer. There is the Brickskeller with all their bottled beer, or the Four Providences for a
good slow pour Guiness, or you can go up to Baltimore for some good
brewpubs. Does anyone know of any other good local (ie. MD VA DC) pubs or
bars, specifically ones serving good KEG beers!
BTW Old Dominion Brewing Co just came out with a new beer. It is a light ale
(called, oddly enough, Dominion Ale). I tried it last night and was suitably
impressed. I don't know where else it is available except for Chevy Chase
Liqours, Though I am sure it will be readily available soon (Chevy Chase just
got their first case in on friday, the bottles were marked Aug 21)
Eric Simmon
simmon at eeel.nist.gov
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 91 10:38:55 PDT
From: chad at mpl.UCSD.EDU (Chad Epifanio)
Subject: Judge Ye Not All Extracts As Altered
Dave Wrote:
>> As a final $0.02 worth, I just opened the first bottle of an amber
>>lager I made using a John Bull hopped **lager** extract. This actually came
>>as part of a lager "kit" that included an unmarked package of yeast and an
>>unmarked package of "wort finings" which I later found out was Irish Moss.
>>I used Whitbread dry lager yeast instead and I added some pellet hops,
>>just to be sure.
>> Overall, the beer had some good qualities. Very crisp and clean, not
>>too sweet. But I noticed a distinct odor and taste that I couldn't quite
>>put my finger on. I gave the glass to my wife, who is NOT a beer drinker,
>>and asked her what it smelled like. Her unbiased reply was "fruity, like
>>cider". !!!!!!!
>> I added no other malt (dry or otherwise) and I certainly added no
>>sugar (except for the 3/4 cup for priming).
>> As I recall from the discussion here about sugar in extracts, the
>>group that did the research would not name the extracts except to say they
>>were lager extracts. My experience with John Bull (I believe it is called
>>the Master Lager Kit) would certainly verify this.
Al added:
>The implication here (that John Bull adds corn sugar) may be undeserved.
>Just because a beer is fruity or because someone attributes some quality
>of "cider" to it, does not mean that there is corn (or other) sugar added
>to the extract. Dave failed to mention the fermentation temperature. The
>fact that the can says "lager" does not mean if will automatically be a
>lager.
>What makes it a lager is the fermentation temperature. A "lager extract"
>fermented with a bottom fermenting (lager) yeast at 70F will taste like an
>ale. No doubt about it. ^^^
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 91 10:57:29 PDT
From: "Norbert Vicente" <norbert at hprnhv.rose.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #710 (August 27, 1991)
Full-Name: "Norbert Vicente"
Who do I contact for cancelation of this newsletter.
- --
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
##################### ~ Norbert Vicente (916) 785-5388 ~
###### /_ _ #### ~ Roseville Site Organization ~
##### / / /_/ ##### ~ 8020 Foothills Blvd.,Roseville, CA 95678 ~
#### / ###### ~ HPDesk: Norbert (hprpcd) /HP5200/UX ~
##################### ~ Unix to Unix: norbert at hprpcd.rose.hp.com ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Date: 27 August 1991 12:50:42 CDT
From: "Roger Deschner" <U52983 at UICVM.uic.edu>
Subject:
In HBD 710, Thomas Manteufel described a special glass carboy he found
with a spigot near the bottom, and wondered what he could plug it with.
I am a crumugeon about some things. Sanitation is a tough enough struggle
(I've made quite a bit of contaminated beer myself) for homebrewers
without adding all sorts of gee-gaws to collect crud in. I'd just be
nervous about it - one of the beauties of the glass carboy is its
perfectly smooth interior finish, which cannot hide anything if you
follow relatively simple cleaning and sanitizing procedures. This gizmo
would complicate all that. What do you have against siphoning?
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue Aug 27 09:56:12 1991
From: larryba at ingate.microsoft.COM
Subject: Root Beer
I recently had some delicious root beer made by a local microbrewer, Thomas
Kemper. The ingredients listed Sassafras extract and vanillia as the
only flavors. There was other stuff as well: carmel color, corn sugar,
maltodextrin, phosporic acid and carbonated water.
Several months ago I talked with the Kemper head brewer) and he said that the
sassafras extract comes from only a few licenced processors since the raw
stuff is apparently quite carcinogenic. I presume the maltodextrin is
responsible for the lush creamy mouth feel and head. The rest is standard
pop ingredients.
The point is, do y'all have any recommendations for the flavor essence for
root beer? I looked in my local supermarket for some "hires extract" that my
dad used way back when and all they had was some totally artificial and
loaded with odd chemical components stuff from Shilling (i.e. no sassafras in
it at all!)
This stuff from Kemper was *GREAT* and I would love to have a keg of it
next to my ales in the fridge (there is always room for one more tap!)
Thanks, in advance.
Larry Barello
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 91 17:46:12 bst
From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas at loughborough.ac.uk>
Subject: Re : cidery tastes
There are at least three different classes of substances which can give
beer a fruity flavour : esters, aldehydes and fusel oil (higher alcohols).
Esters are generally well-received in ales and are encouraged by the use of
certain yeasts and also by high gravity ferments. In fact, some brews are
fermented at double strength, then later diluted, for this reason. Esters
can also be a product of maturation, according to the principle that
alcohol + organic acid gives ester (slowly). Some acids esterify more
effectively than others, with some winemakers advocating additions of
succinic acid for this purpose. Could be an interesting experiment in beer
: you might possibly wind up with some appealing fruit flavours, or you
might wind up with a vinous tasting beer.
Just to contradict myself a little, I have noticed that hop aroma degrades
with maturation. I have always been under the impression that this aroma
was primarily due to esters. Possibly not ?
Aldehydes are a precursor to alcohol (ethanol) during yeast metabolism. In
other words, they are present in green beer, but should vanish with
maturation. They taste a fraction sickly and are poisonous. Fusel oil is
encouraged by certain yeasts, warm ferments, and nutrient deficiencies. It
too is sickly and reputedly toxic. Both aldehydes and fusel oil are thought
to be implicated in hangovers. If you will pardon an anecdote, the last
time I was in Munich, I had 1 litre of what looked and tasted like a very
young draught hefe weizen with dinner. The dinner was not particularly
exotic (after all, this WAS Germany) and I had no other intoxicants (honest
to God) ! Next morning, my head felt like trolls had danced on it during
the night (to steal a phrase).
Back to the point. When people complain about 'homebrew flavours',
'bubblegum flavours' and maybe 'cidery flavours', I suspect they are often
referring to aldehydes and/or fusel oil. This suspicion is reinforced if
the brew drinks cleaner with maturation.
Back onto toxicity. I now take the point that unhulled adjuncts have a
place in brewing. But this has led me to question whether the
rolling/flaking process has any effect on cellulose content in the cereal.
If not, one is introducing one of the precursors to methanol into the brew;
yet another nasty substance.
Just when you thought it was safe to ... RDWHAHB ?
Conn V Copas tel : (0509)263171 ext 4164
Loughborough University of Technology fax : (0509)610815
Computer-Human Interaction Research Centre
Leicestershire LE11 3TU e-mail -
G Britain (Janet):C.V.Copas at uk.ac.lut
(Internet):C.V.Copas%lut.ac.uk at nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
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Date: Tue, 27 Aug 91 15:37 EST
From: STAFINIAK at hermes.psycha.upenn.edu
Subject: Holland info
I know a friend of a friend who is visiting Holland for a while. I'd like
to ask him to bring back some interesting brews (particularly if they
are not available here in the States). Also, any yeast strains that may be
available there but not here? Where can they be found? Any info would
be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!
Paul
Stafiniak at HERMES.PSYCHA.UPENN.EDU
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Date: Tue, 27 Aug 91 13:30:19 PDT
From: florianb at chip.cna.tek.com
Subject: Rapids and good looks
Regarding the Rapids discussion. I haven't had any trouble at all
getting parts from Rapids. They have seemed like very helpful and
cheerful people (over the phone). Then again, as I mentioned, I
haven't had any trouble getting Pepsi to sell me kegs, either.
Perhaps it's just my good looks...
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 91 16:38:08 EDT
From: chuck at bose.com (Chuck Cox)
Subject: Molasses
Anybody out there ever fermented molasses?
I am doing some research for an acquaintance who is looking into
starting a Rum micro-distillery.
If you know anything about the fermentation or distillation
of Rum, please let me know, I've got several questions.
Please don't waste bandwidth about legalities,
I am fully aware of the laws involved, and we will not be breaking any.
- Chuck Cox - uunet!bose!chuck - Hopped/Up Racing Team -
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Date: Tue, 27 Aug 91 15:42:55 MDT
From: dworkin at Solbourne.COM (Dieter Muller)
Subject: Re: Beer proof plug information request
: I also have to find something to allow me to drain this without
: spewing beer all over basement while I connect a hose to the nipple
: (unless I just want it to shoot out and I'll catch it in a bucket,
: kind of a bad idea for several reasons).
Well, it *is* period. This isn't rec.org.sca? Oops.
: Any ideas, jokes, puns, flames, personal slanders, spelling or
: gramatical corrections?
But not sorry. You *did* ask for it, after all.
Dworkin
Please don't get us wrong, man,
this is just a song, man, no matter what we say -- FC
dworkin at solbourne.com Flamer's Hotline: (303) 678-4624
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Date: Tue, 27 Aug 91 15:44:51 MDT
From: dworkin at Solbourne.COM (Dieter Muller)
Subject: Re: Utah Brew
jeg: I have read that Utah has a 3.2% law that covers *all* types of
jeg: beer. Even malt liquors have to be less than 3.2% alcohol.
jeg: Seems to me that would make for some pretty weak stouts.
I believe that only applies to beer *sold* in Utah, not *produced* in
Utah. Alternatively, that Irish Stout has a lot more kick to it than
any other 3.2% beer I've ever had. Maybe it's all just fusel oils....
Dworkin
Please don't get us wrong, man,
this is just a song, man, no matter what we say -- FC
dworkin at solbourne.com Flamer's Hotline: (303) 678-4624
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1991 18:18:22 EDT
From: FATHER BARLEYWINE <rransom at bchm1.aclcb.purdue.edu>
Subject: That Satanic Mead
Geez Looueez, what a recipe for mead!
As you might have gathered, I'm replying to Chuck's recipe for cherry
mead and the resultant nasty suphur odor. Chuck, try:
1) Cutting the addition of grapefruit juice to naught, and
using lemons or limes (3 - 5) instead.
2) Boil the stuff...I've had no problem with boiling up the
mead constituents (honey, water, and citrus juices) and
then adding the fruit after it has cooled a bit.
3) Ack! Dispense with the Campden tablets. What an idea,
sterilizing components for a brew that tasted great before
Pastuer was a sparkle in his father's eye. Honey has
all sorts of nasty antibiotics in it (when was the last
time you found mold on your honey?) including, of course,
high sugar content, and if your yeast isn't kicking ass on
all competitors very soon after hitting the meniscus, you
need to get some different yeast.
4) Dispense with the acid and pectic enzyme. Unnecessary and
probably expensive.
5) On the yeast note, try using champagne yeast. If you prime it
a bit, the mead has a delightful small-bubble sparkle that
will tickle away your troubles (and champagne yeast will
ferment out enough alcohol to savage any remaining ones).
Personally, I like both wine (flat) and sparkling meads. Frankly, I could
drink mead continually, sing off key, and bathe in it too. Mead is truly the
drink of the gods, while beer is the soothing nectar of their resulting well-
wishes for the prosperity of mankind. Besides, mead is _really_ easy to make
(especially after killing yourself to produce a fine all-malt extravaganza).
Hope I helped a bit...
Father B.
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Date: Wed, 28 Aug 91 11:26 M
From: ANDY HILL <VIOLATOR at MATAI.vuw.ac.nz>
Subject: re: beer plug request...
hiya
this may sound dorky but what about putting some hose on the 'nipple'
(ooooooeeerrrrr!) and then blocking it with a couple of bulldog clips?
i s'pose you would need hose that would be a bit more flexible than the
average food-grade stuff (thinner perhaps?).
in our lab (molecular bio) we use these things like thumbscrews for closing
off hoses (and for torture...) maybe a vice or something may work the same.
if you know someone who works in a lab they may be able to get some glass
taps which slot in to bits of hose, this may also work but i'm not too sure
what the pressure would be like inside the hose.
good luck
Andy
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Date: Tue, 27 Aug 91 23:11:33 CDT
From: hopduvel!john at linac.fnal.gov (John L. Isenhour)
Subject: Aluminum kegs -> stainless HBD 710
KENYON%MOE%erevax.bitnet at pucc.PRINCETON.EDU writes:
> Subject: ???Aluminum Kegs/Mead/Chemistry???
> 1) On two occasions I have kegged a batch of beer in Aluminum
> Anheuser-Busch kegs. They're pretty easy to get open, you've just got
> to remove a coil spring on top (after carefully depressurizing, of
If you are talking about the newer style of kegs (from your
description, it looks like it), they are stainless steel. *If* you
could purchase them, you could cut the top off (except for the
handles) and have one heck of a brewpot. There was an article in
_Zymurgy_ a coupla years ago on disassembly of the top, careful
about that spring! The older Hoff-Stevens stainless kegs can be
repurchased. They can be cut (with caution) with a steel cutting
blade on a circular saw, grind or file the edges when done.
- --
John L. Isenhour
inet: hopduvel!john at linac.fnal.gov
renaissance scientist and AHA/HWBTA certified Beer Judge
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #711, 08/28/91
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