---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Settle & Rack you spargings! (Brian Bliss)
  Beer proof plug information request (Thomas Manteufel 5-4257)
  where is Iowa? (Fritz Keinert)
  Re:  Utah Brew (John E. Greene)
  carbonation in soda pop (David L. Kensiski)
  Homebrew Digest #708 (August 26, 1991) (Katy T. Kislitzin)
  decoction mashing, lauter tun temp. (mcnally)
  Rapids Confusion -- An Answer? (Martin A. Lodahl)
  fruity John Bull (korz)
  postscrypt (michael gregg)
  Flat Cornelius, Gingane, and Magic (FATHER BARLEYWINE)
  Chill haze solution (Norm Hardy)
  Re: a little help for a right-coaster (no homebrew suppliers in New Jersey) (Matt Blumrich)
  HB store in NJ (Matt Blumrich)
  ???Aluminum Kegs/Mead/Chemistry??? (KENYON)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date: Mon, 26 Aug 91 05:45:11 CDT
From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)
Subject: Settle & Rack you spargings!



>... We have all read about the dire consequences of washing sediment
>into the boiler, but maybe this is an illusory problem. What about simply
>leaving the wort to settle, then racking into the boiler ?

works great.  The only drawback is the time it takes to settle,
but when I get done with the sparging I'm already 4 hours into
the brewing process, and need too take a break for a few hours,
anyway.  Even if the spargins finally run clear, let them
sit a few hours, and you'll be suprised at how many husks
settle out.  I now recycle only the first quart or two of
runoff, let the spargins settle and rack.  My spargings never
seem to run clear until I add the sparge water.  The husks take
up a very small volume (O.K. I guess there is another drawback);
expect to lose a quart of wort, tops.

Has anybody noticed:
the fewer husks in the boil, the better hot break?

bb


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Date: Mon, 26 Aug 91 07:54:05 CDT
From: tomm at pet.med.ge.com (Thomas Manteufel 5-4257)
Subject: Beer proof plug information request

I saw a most unusual glass carboy this weekend.  It is a 5 gallon carboy,
solid glass, with a nipple molded onto the side about an inch up.  The
nipple tappers to about a 3/8" O.D. opening.  Immediatly, I thought "wow,
this thing is just the right height that I could brew in here and drain
it, leaving the yeast cake/trub behind."  Then unpleasant reality hit.  What
would I use to plug the hole while I am brewing?  I not only have to find
a beer proof material to plug the hole to a few weeks, I also have to find
something to allow me to drain this without spewing beer all over basement
while I connect a hose to the nipple (unless I just want it to shoot out and
I'll catch it in a bucket, kind of a bad idea for several reasons).  About
the only reasonable thing I could think of is to put a length of food grade
hose on the nipple with a length longer than height of the carboy and loop it
up so the end is above the top of the wort.  I am concerned about this too.
I suppose I could sanitize the inside of the hose and rig up something to keep
it closed and clean inside.  What about the wort/beer in the hose?  Would
enough yeast sneak in there for complete fermentation, or would I have spoiling
wort mingling with my beer?  That stuff would be washed out first and I could
dump it as I flush out my hose, but still, there it sits next to my beer ...
Not even to mention my concern over getting a slow enough flow rate that I
don't wash a lot of yeast off the top of the cake.

Has anyone ever used something like this?  Does it sound like a lot of
trouble and expense ($29) and possible contamination because I hate siponing
so much?  Should I just get a pump instead?  Any ideas, jokes, puns, flames,
personal slanders, spelling or gramatical corrections?  I'll be offline for
the next week, but I look forward to any responses.

Thomas Manteufel

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Date: Mon, 26 Aug 91 08:14:35 CDT
From: Fritz Keinert <keinert at iastate.edu>
Subject: where is Iowa?

In digest #709, R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas) writes

>>  Ok, so I got my states mixed up.  I was thinking that Iowa was directly
>> below Minnesota, but it's actually more next-to MN and below Wisconsin.

Iowa IS directly below Minnesota (trust me, I live here). The state
below Wisconsin is called Illinois. 

Fritz Keinert
keinert at iastate.edu

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Date: Mon, 26 Aug 91 08:32:00 PDT
From: jeg at desktalk.com (John E. Greene)
Subject: Re:  Utah Brew

>Date: Sun, 25 Aug 91 17:53:49 MDT
>From: dworkin at Solbourne.COM (Dieter Muller)
>Subject: Utah Beers

>Just to add a bit to the noise, one of my favourite stouts is brewed
>in Utah.  `Irish Stout', apparently by the Wasatch Brewing Company, in
>Wasatch, Utah, is really nice stuff.

I have read that Utah has a 3.2% law that covers *all* types of beer.  Even
malt liquors have to be less than 3.2% alcohol.  Seems to me that would make
for some pretty weak stouts.  Anyone in Utah buying Schlitz Malt Liquor for
the extra *kick* is just fooling themselves.

This was based on information compilied by the Beer Institute (formerly the 
United States Brewers Association) but is 5 or 6 years old (maybe more).

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John E. Greene             Everyone needs something to believe in.  I believe 
Sr. Staff Engineer         I'll have another homebrew!
Desktalk Systems Inc.      
(213) 323-5998             internet:  jeg at desktalk.desktalk.com

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Date: Mon, 26 Aug 91 09:16:43 -0700
From: kensiski at nas.nasa.gov (David L. Kensiski)
Subject: carbonation in soda pop

In HBD-709 Jack Schmidling <arf at ddsw1.mcs.com>, talking about
homebrewed root beer, says:

> UNLIKE ORDINARY BEVERAGES THAT GO FLAT AFTER OPENING, IF YOU RE-CAP
> A HOMEBREW AND LEAVE IT OUT OF THE FRIDGE OVERNIGHT, IT WILL
> RE-CARBONATE.

Is this because the yeasties in commercial beverages have been killed
by pasturization?  Or are commercial root beers carbonated by CO2
injection? 

> I left a bottle out for 30 days just see what happens and 
> although the bottle survived, the amount of carbonation was 
> beyond usefulness.  I had to lower the temp it to almost 
> freezing to even get it open and I still lost about half to 
> gushing.

Perhaps someone can explain what happened here: Long ago, I left a
couple bottles of soda (probably Pepsi, but that was too long ago to
remember) in the back of my pickup when I went skiing and came back to
find them nearly frozen.  Since we were miles from nowhere and that
was all we had left to drink, we popped off the tops.  Nothing
happened - not even the normal *ffffpppttt* - the soda in the neck was
frozen solid.  As it began to melt, however, the soda started frothing
and eventually got to gushing out of the bottle quite a bit.

I didn't question why back then because this was the first experience
I'd had with soda that was that cold.  But Jack's scenario suggests
that the colder the soda is, the less it should gush.  Or was my
soda's reaction because it was changing from a solid to liquid?

- --Dave
________________________________________________________________________
David L. Kensiski [KB6HCN]              Numerical Aerodynamic Simulation
kensiski at nas.nasa.gov               NASA Ames Research Center, M/S 258-6   
(415)604-4417                       Moffett Field, California 94035-1000


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Date: Mon, 26 Aug 91 11:10:06 -0700
From: ktk at nas.nasa.gov (Katy T. Kislitzin)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #708 (August 26, 1991)

Well, thought i would let everyone know what happened:

we served the beer and a fair amount of it got drunk, so it couldn't
have been *all* bad...

but, it is still bvery young and the root beer taste is there to stay.
i am going to let it sit for a couple of weeks and see if the tastes
have mellowed more.

the biggest thing that i learned is that there is more to making a
lightly flavored beer than just going easy on the hops.  this beer
could definitly have used more hops!

thanks for all the helpful advice!

- --kt

ktk at nas.nasa.gov 

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Date: Mon, 26 Aug 91 11:28:58 -0700
From: mcnally at Pa.dec.com
Subject: decoction mashing, lauter tun temp.


I tried a decoction mash over the weekend, and was satisfied with the
technique and the effects.  Overall, I'd say it's a more involving and
more satisfying process than step-infusion mashing.  There's something
about boiling the thick porridge of grain that convinces me that
*something* is going on.  Temperature control is more precise, as well;
I don't have to put up with my stove.

My setup consists of an Igloo 36 qt. mash tun and a 33 qt. ceramic-on-
steel boiler.  The Igloo works extremely well at keeping the temperature
constant.

I learned that it's a big pain to undershoot, and that as much grain as
possible should be boiled for the acid rest--->saccharification rest
decoction.  It's easier to let the excess hot grain cool if there's too
much than to cope with the mash being too cool.

One question: what techniques do people use to keep the mash in the
lauter tun warm while sparging?  Mine is insulated, and when I 
recirculate I drain into a saucepan directly on a portable electric
stove element.  It stills cools off too much.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike McNally                                           mcnally at wsl.dec.com
Digital Equipment Corporation
Western Software Lab

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Date: Mon, 26 Aug 91 12:02:56 PDT
From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at PacBell.COM>
Subject: Rapids Confusion -- An Answer?

Just a thought -- When I spoke with the Rapids people a couple of
years ago, they were very receptive to the idea of selling to just
reg'lar ol' folks.  Russ, could you be thinking of the discussion
in HBD concerning getting free catalogs from Carolina Biological
Supply?  They were the only folks I remember seeing discussed here
in the last few years that had a different policy for businesses and
people, but I could easily be wrong ...

= Martin A. Lodahl   			Pacific*Bell Systems Analyst =
= malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM       Sacramento, CA       916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =


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Date: Mon, 26 Aug 91 10:24 CDT
From: ihlpl!korz at att.att.com
Subject: fruity John Bull

Dave wrote:
>	As a final $0.02 worth, I just opened the first bottle of an amber
>lager I made using a John Bull hopped **lager** extract. This actually came as
>part of a lager "kit" that included an unmarked package of yeast and an 
>unmarked package of "wort finings" which I later found out was Irish Moss.
>I used Whitbread dry lager yeast instead and I added some pellet hops, just to
>be sure.
>
>	Overall, the beer had some good qualities. Very crisp and clean, not
>too sweet. But I noticed a distinct odor and taste that I couldn't quite put
>my finger on. I gave the glass to my wife, whois NOT a beer drinker, and asked
>her what it smelled like. Her unbiased reply was "fruity, like cider". !!!!!!!
>
>	I added no other malt (dry or otherwise) and I certainly added no
>sugar (except for the 3/4 cup for priming).
>
>	As I recall from the discussion here about sugar in extracts, the group
>that did the research would not name the extracts except to say they were
>lager extracts. My experience with John Bull (I believe it is called the Master
>Lager Kit) would certainly verify this.

The implication here (that John Bull adds corn sugar) may be undeserved.  
Just because a beer is fruity or because someone attributes some quality
of "cider" to it, does not mean that there is corn (or other) sugar added
to the extract.  Dave failed to mention the fermentation temperature.  The
fact that the can says "lager" does not mean if will automatically be a lager.
What makes it a lager is the fermentation temperature.  A "lager extract"
fermented with a bottom fermenting (lager) yeast at 70F will taste like an
ale.  No doubt about it.                            ^^^

Let's not be too quick to "cry sugar."

Al.
korz at ihlpl.att.com

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Date: Tue, 27 Aug 91 10:03:27 EST
From: gregg at maddog.anu.edu.au (michael gregg)
Subject: postscrypt

Hi Everyone,

I recently ftp'd the postscript files for the Cat's Meow recipe compilation.
Our Apple laserwriter prints only the last page of each file and this not
perfectly (apostrophes become capital U's and such).  Does anyone have a
fix?  Or maybe a TeX or LateX version of the recipes?

mdg


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Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1991 19:02:28 EDT
From: FATHER BARLEYWINE <rransom at bchm1.aclcb.purdue.edu>
Subject: Flat Cornelius, Gingane, and Magic

Heydie Brewmeisters!
	Wow, this newsletter is really getting huge!  I've been just filing
them away recently, and I was very pleasantly suprised at how very large this
has become.
	First a bit about flat beer in Cornelius (sp?) kegs.  I consistantly
turn out well carbonated, and sometimes very well carbonated, beers from 
Cornelius kegs.  The secret to assuring carbonation and preventing gushers is
to prime with low amounts of sugar or krausen (1/3 cup sugar, 1-2 cups malt
extract at fermentation strength) and to put on a significant quantity of 
carbon dioxide (20 psi or more).  I've heard some complaints about 'artific-
ially carbonating' beers by putting on high CO2, but to artificially 
carbonate requires _lots_ of gas (add 50 psi, shake, repeat indefinately).
The reason you're ending up with flat beer is that the seals around the 
central fill port require at least 15 psi to seal properly (the working 
pressures for syryp are around 80 - 100 psi) and much below this value will
allow all pressure to escape.  It is essential to maintain pressure early, 
since this is when the beer is still fermenting and building up a good level 
of CO2 in solution; later when the beer is saturated with CO2 losing pressure
is not as much of a problem.  If you end up with overcarbonated beer, don't be
afraid of letting off some steam with the pressure release and letting the
beer reach a new (less gushy) equilibrium.
	Schmidt productions listed a long recipe for ginger ale, and so I
thought I'd slap together a short recipe for ginger champagne (gingane).  
There are a couple of considerations....first, this stuff is high octane
brew (10% alcohol and up) and it is very similar to champagne (high gas
pressure) so I would ask you to be very careful with your bottles (use 
_only_ champagne bottles) or avoid the danger of explosion and use a 
Cornelius keg.  Don't let this stuff ferment out completely so it has a 
bit of residual sweetness to mask any slight off flavours...being made of 
sugar and ginger, it has no body to mask imperfections.  Fruit is also a 
nice addition, either with the pre-fermented mass or in the Dutch style as
a final addition a few hours (1 day tops) before bottling.

			GINGANE ala RANSOMNIA

		1 - 2 lbs. ginger (yes, pounds!)

		5 - 7 lbs. corn sugar

		1 - 2 lbs. sucrose (table sugar)

		juice of several (3) citroids (lemon, lime, grapefruit,
			or combination of high citric fruits like lime
			with oranges)

		various additives (fruitoids, spice thangs, herbs,
			hops, or whatever floats yer boat)

		2 packages champagne yeast

	Chop ginger (leave that skin on!) in discs and blend with hot water.
	Use plenty of water, then filter homogenized ginger through 
	several layers of cheesecloth.  Squeeze dry, then add more water
	and squeeze again.  Add water to make about 2 gallons, heat, and
	dissolve in sugars.  Bring to boil, add citroid juices, and 
	boil stirring frequently (to avoid excessive sugar carmelization)
	for about 30 minutes.
		Pour into fermenter containing 2 + gallons cold water 
	carefully (to avoid hot stuff on cold glass) and add more water
	to make about 5 gallons.  Pitch.  Ferment.  Bottle.  Drink.
		If adding fruit, do so 5 minutes after you stop boil and
	give it 10 minutes to pastuerize a bit.  Dump the whole bleeding
	thing into the fermenter, and strain off the fruit when passing
	into secondary (or just fergit the secondary and strain when
	bottling).  I personally prefer to make a fruit extract (blend
	fruit and strain off juice) and add the juice to the finished 
	product.  Remember to bottle before fermentation stops, and be
	careful about the priming (1/2 to a maximum of 3/4 cup).

Gosh, this was supposed to be a short recipe....ah well, my mouth gushes over.
	A last blurb about magic....  We've all humorously jibed about what the
phase of the moon, or astological sign of the brew party, or even bad and evil
influences does to your brew; I personally find astrology offensive, and I
think the phase of the moon primarily affects tides, but your attitude and
emanations (for lack of a word that hasn't been New Aged into uselessness) are
seriously all important to brewing.  Brewing has only recently been made into
a science, and like all sciences (I'm a scientist, and so I can at least talk
out my ass with assurance) discounts the effects of subjective (i.e. 
personal and non-reproducible) reality.  Beer is a mystery, and being able to
describe what happens chemically or dissect the constituents of a fine brew
does nothing for understanding the 'whats' of a beer.  Science is inherently
descriptive, and cannot say much about just what something is; we can 
precisely describe the behavior of something, but what exactly that something
is is still a matter for the philosopher.  I can say that I know the way I
feel influences the beer I make (to the extent that I never sanitize and
don't bother with secondaries) by making the living organisms that produce it
happy (for lack of a better word).
	However, I cannot put down in black and white how I do it.  This is 
the essence of magic, and unfortunately the above diatribe has mainly tried to
communicate to you the uncommunicatable.  I will end this lame monologue with
the thought that you really should think of your beer as an expression and 
extension of your self, not as a cooking project or experiment.

					Richard Ransom
					Father B.

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Date: Mon, 26 Aug 91 16:32:18 PDT
From: polstra!norm at uunet.UU.NET (Norm Hardy)
Subject: Chill haze solution

I found that one of my ales has a bad chill haze.  I discovered the perfect
solution to the problem:

 Pour the beer into my .5 liter ceramic mug purchased in Munich in 1984.  Get
a good frothy head so you can't see the beer.  It always tastes great!

Norm Hardy

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Date: Mon, 26 Aug 91 17:33:53 PDT
From: Matt Blumrich <mb at SSD.intel.com>
Subject: Re: a little help for a right-coaster (no homebrew suppliers in New Jersey)


In HBD #705, Paul Chisholm writes that there are no homebrew supply stores
in central NJ.  I'm from Princeton and there is a place called Wine Hobby
USA at 401 Hillsborough Plaza in South Sommerville (on rt. 206) with a
decent selection of wine and beer making supplies and equipment.  They tend
to be quite overpriced, though, so I find an excuse and go to Philadelphia
when I need supplies.  Their selection is also kind of limited.  The phone
number is: (201) 874-4141.  As far as I know, they are the only supplier
in central Jersey.

 - Matt -

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Date: Mon, 26 Aug 91 17:43:09 PDT
From: Matt Blumrich <mb at SSD.intel.com>
Subject: HB store in NJ

> There is also a home brew only (virtually no wine specific supplies)
> store at 20th and Sansom in Philadelphia (forget the name)

Home Sweet Homebrew on Sansom.  It's excellent.
 - Matt -

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Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1991 01:04 EST
From: KENYON%MOE%erevax.bitnet at pucc.PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: ???Aluminum Kegs/Mead/Chemistry???


Howdy All,

I've got a few questions for the HBD peanut gallery:

1) On two occasions I have kegged a batch of beer in Aluminum
Anheuser-Busch kegs.  They're pretty easy to get open, you've just got
to remove a coil spring on top (after carefully depressurizing, of
course!!) and the ball valve/outlet tube assembly comes out all in one
piece.  The problem is, on both occasions the kegged beer came out
substantially darker (more amberer??) than I had anticipated.  Darker
in fact, than some of the same batch that I had bottled alongside the
keg brew.  I've been brewing for a couple'o'years so I realize light
malts won't give me 'Bud-colored' brews.  The brew tasted fine, but it
was difficult to get some less adventursome friends to try it simply
because of the color (Rascist Bastards!).  My questions are these:

   a) Is the yeast reacting with the Aluminum to cause this effect?
   b) Can I get Alzheimer's from drinking it?
   c) Am I simply losing my mind?
   d) Has the yeast's reacting with the Aluminum given me Alzheimer's
      from drinking it and I'm losing my mind?



2)  I recently tried my hand at brewing a fruit flavored Mead.  I used
the following recipe (approximately) for 6.5 Gallons:
   12 #      Goldenrod Honey
    2 Qts.   Cherry Wine Kit (Whole cherries - pits, stems, the works)
  2.5 Gal.   Grapefruit Juice
   .5 Oz.    Hallertauer Hops (The beer brewer in me - what can I say)
  1.5 Oz.    Acid Blend
   Some      Pectic Enzyme
    6        Campden Tablets
    1 Pkt.   Mead Yeast

I mixed all of the above (except for 1 gallon of G.J.) in warm water
(not boiled) filling the fermentor up to 5 - 5.5 gallons.  A day later
I pitched the yeast from a 1 Quart starter.  Primary fermentation
seemed to go pretty well and after about two weeks I racked into a
6.5 gallon secondary.  I topped the secondary off with another gallon
of G.J. which I had sterilized (maybe?) by mixing in a couple more
Campden tablets the day before.  Well, it's about 6 weeks later and
I'm still getting a fairly heavy Sulphery nose from the neck of the
Carbouy when I chance to sniff in.  Well, here they come:


  a) Will the sulphery smell go away if I ignore it?
  b) Will it go away if I don't ignore it - i.e. anything I can or
     oughtta be doing??
  c) Did I just plain dump too much Sulpher in, in the form of Campden
     Tablets?
  d) Can anybody tell me if there was any method to my madness (no
     Altzheimer's jokes, please)?
  e) Any recommendations whether this Mead will turn out better if I
     carbonate it (which at this point, I intend to do), or would it
     best be treated like a wine??

Any comments as to the positives/negatives of the steps I've taken
would be greatly appreciated.  Looking forward to your responses ...

 -Chuck-

P.S. - Tim, was that 3 parts sorcery to 1 part fluids, with a pinch of
Chem. Eng.???


***********************************************
***********************************************
*****                                     *****
*****  More Filling!!! - Tastes Great!!!  *****
*****                                     *****
*****        MUST BE A HOMEBREW  !!       *****
*****                                     *****
***********************************************
***********************************************


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #710, 08/27/91
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