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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  First mash...... resulting questions.... (Jim White)
  Missing 718, is it out there anywhere? ("DRCV06::GRAHAM")
  O2 (Russ Gelinas)
  The Home Brewery (IO10676)
  HomeBrewery (Walter H. Gude)
  info please (Russ Gelinas)
  questions:  copper cleaning and old recipes (Thomas Manteufel 5-4257)
  Wort Chillers (Bob_Konigsberg)
  Fermenters (Loodvrij)
  HD 718 Lost In Space... (MIKE LIGAS)
  Honey beer (Judy Bergwerk)
  Cooling (Bob_Konigsberg)
  Fast Fermentation (Kent Dinkel)
  wheat malt and mashing (florianb)
  Grain mill (Carl West)
  Decoctions are a stirring experience (Norm Hardy)
  Nitrosamines (Jack Schmidling)


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[Please do not send me requests for back issues!]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date:    Mon, 09 Sep 91 08:37:02 EDT
From: JWHITE at maine.maine.edu (Jim White)
Subject: First mash...... resulting questions....

Tied mashing some grains last night, for the first time. As a result I have
a couple questions.

Iodine testing:

Having never done this before, I decided I'd do an iodine test right at the
beginning of the mash, so I'd have a benchmark comparison. I took a tablespoon
or so of the mash and put it in a white saucer a dabbed a couple drops of
'tinture of iodine' into it. Though I didn't expect the sample to, instantly,
turn jet black.... I was unable to notice any significant color change!

The tincture is a dark reddish color to begin with, so when mixed it did
effect a color change, but nothing like I expected. After about 45 minutes
at 152 F, I rpeated the test, and again noticed no color change.

Did I use the right stuff? This iodine was like what we used to apply to
cuts, etc. Is there a colorless iodine I should've used?

Is there a better way to ascertain the status of the starch conversion? I
also tried a taste test, hoping to notice a difference in sweetness, but I
felt this was also inconclusive. Sigh ....

Modification:

The malt I attempted to mash, was purchased locally at a Gormet/Health/Natural
food store. It was labelled Pale Grain Malt and upon asking, I was told it
was a 2 row 'European'. That's all fine, but they didn't know if it was
modified or not. Since I couldn't be sure I decided to do a protein rest
prior to starch conversion, but now to my question. Is there a way to determine
if a grain is modified, fully modified, or unmodified? If so can this be
accomplished at home, and without sophisticated equipment?

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Date: 9 Sep 91 08:36:00 EDT
From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <graham%drcv06.decnet at drcvax.af.mil>
Subject: Missing 718, is it out there anywhere?

I seem to have missed 718 on last Friday.  The Miami archive seems to have 
missed it too.  If anyone got a copy, could you email it to me, and I'll be 
happy to service other requests for this issue.


Dan Graham
Beer made with the Derry air.
 


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Date:    Mon, 9 Sep 1991 9:42:00 EDT
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: O2

  Here's a data point on adding oxygen after ferment has started.  I made a
full mash (!) recipe this weekend, but ended up with only 3 gallons of wort
in the carboy.  I pitched the yeast (Wyeast Chico ale slurry from the
previous batch) and went to sleep.  The next day there was a nice small but
very dense krausen on the brew.  I added 2 gallons of boiled cooled water
to it (and of course it foamed and splashed a lot), and within 2 hours it was 
fermenting harder than any I've ever seen.  I've pitched slurry before and
the ferment was strong, but this was still *much* stronger, so I blame the O2.
Yeast use up the O2 in their reproductive phase, correct?  So the O2 should
have helped them to make lots of other little yeasties, all of whom like
to eat.  Hopefully too, there'll be a nice thick slurry to save for the
next batch.

Russ  (what happened to HBD #718?)

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Date:    Mon, 09 Sep 91 09:59:07 EDT
From: IO10676 at maine.maine.edu
Subject: The Home Brewery

Having just recently moved from Iowa, I did quite a bit of business
with The Home Brewery out of Ozark, MO.  All mail-order business, that
is; I never actually visited them.  I have the following to say about
the operation:

* Their prices are ordinarily good, but not outstandingly so.  They were
cheaper than our local homebrew shop, but only marginally so with P&H,
so we usually only ordered things that we couldn't get locally.

* They do have good delivery time to the midwest, no doubt due to their
rather central location.  We wuold typically receive orders within
2-3 days after placing them.

* My only major complaint: They had very poor accuracy in filling orders.
I would guess that over half of the orders we placed with them had
some sort of error - usually just a wrong item, such as the incorrect
type or brand of malt extract or hops, but annoying nonetheless.  If
they could clear this up, I would wholeheartedly recommend them; it
happened so frequently to us, though, that I can't believe it was just
a statistical anomaly.

That's about it.  I don't want to imply that nobody should order from
The Home Brewery, but take care that they understand _exactly_ what
you want and understand that you're probably taking your chances with
them anyway.


Sterling Udell
Big Dog Brewing Cooperative - Eastern Division
IO10676 at maine.bitnet
IO10676 at maine.maine.edu
SU0751G at maineiac.umcs.maine.edu
Sterling at gandalf.umcs.maine.edu

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Date: Mon, 9 Sep 91 08:32:23 CDT
From: whg at tellab5.tellabs.COM (Walter H. Gude)
Subject: HomeBrewery


My experience is that they have been great.  They have what's in the catalog
and in the one instance they didn't they knew it and suggested a suitable 
substitute.

Walter Gude

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Date:    Mon, 9 Sep 1991 10:42:07 EDT
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: info please

I'm looking for the names of all the microbreweries in New England.  Rather
than clutter up the HBD, send me personal mail, and then I'll post a complete
list to the digest.  Thanks.

BTW, the name of the Polish beer in question is Zywiec.  Any comments?

Russ Gelinas
r_gelinas%unhh.unh.edu at mitvma.mit.edu

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Date: Mon, 9 Sep 91 10:22:38 CDT
From: tomm at pet.med.ge.com (Thomas Manteufel 5-4257)
Subject: questions:  copper cleaning and old recipes

Thanks for the replies to my query about a beer-proof plug.

I have two questions:  1)  I have a 8ft or so length of soft copper tubing
I can use for an immersion wort chiller.  It has green spots on it where
water splashed on it a few times while it was sitting neglected out in the
shed.  I would like to clean it off non-abrasively so I don't scratch the
tubing.  Beside boiling vinegar, what else can I use to clean the outside?
And is it better to run the cold water to the bottom of the coil and let it
cool as it comes up and exits, or should I run the cold water through the
top of the coil and let the coldest water cool the hotest wort?

2)  Two of my brothers are civil war nuts, and I would like to suprise them
by brewing an authentic 1860's style beer.  What where americans drinking
in 1860, and where can I find a recipe?  Did they use any ingedients we don't
use anymore (like sassafras)?  Any  substitutions?

Thank You,
Thomas Manteufel, B.S.



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Date: Mon, 9 Sep 91 09:13 PDT
From: Bob_Konigsberg at 3mail.3com.com
Subject: Wort Chillers

Regarding John Otten's query about the copper tubing based chiller with 
the cooling fins attached: I would be concerned with the solder in such 
a thing.  Unless you can verify that lead free solder (house plumbing 
now requires such) was used in manufacturing the cooling unit, acidic 
liquids (such as wort) can extract lead from the solder.  If it is lead 
free, then the fins should increase the heat transfer efficiency of the 
unit.

BobK


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Date: Mon, 9 Sep 91 17:13:27 WET DST
From: Loodvrij <csc228%central1.lancaster.ac.uk at hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Fermenters

Thanks for the wealth of replies I got asking about fermenters. The consensus
seemed to be that I cut a hole in the lid of the bin to fit a lock. I was also
warned of other possible areas for infection. A couple of people suggested I
try getting Carboys from the chemistry lab, and this I intend to try.

Thanks again.
- -- 
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Bruce J. Keeler, Lancaster University, Lancs.,  United Kingdom.             |
|		            JANET : csc228 at lancs.cent1                         |
|                        INTERNET : csc228 at lancaster.ac.uk                     |
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: 	Mon, 9 Sep 1991 09:41:00 -0400
From: MIKE LIGAS <LIGAS at SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA>
Subject: HD 718 Lost In Space...

I did not receive HD 718 nor did quite a few people between Ontario and
California by the sounds of it (I tried many personal appeals to have it
forwarded to me). Furthermore, it's not to be found in the mthvax archives.
What's up?! Anyone get it? I was kinda disappointed after synthesizing and
submitting a few letters to this issue which appears to be lost in space.
If you received HD 718 and would be kind enough to forward it to me I'll gladly
return the favour to many others.

Mike

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Date: Mon, 9 Sep 91 09:55:28 PDT
From: judyb at waldo.asd.sgi.com (Judy Bergwerk)
Subject: Honey beer

In reply to:

/ Date: Sun,  8 Sep 1991 11:36:14 -0400 (EDT)
/ >From: Peter Glen Berger <pb1p+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
/ Subject: Status and Stout
/ 
  Can I make Papazian's honey
/ lager recipe at room temperature?  Will this make it a "steam beer",
/ and what will it taste like? 

I made this recipe for my first batch 1 1/2 years ago.  I think it came out
good.  I used lager yeast, and did the initial fermentation at room temp.  It
was in the secondary for about three weeks in my garage (about 60-65F).  I
remember it tasted pretty good at first, and aged really well.  I didn't finish
it off until last fall.

Judy   





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Date: Mon, 9 Sep 91 10:52 PDT
From: Bob_Konigsberg at 3mail.3com.com
Subject: Cooling

I'd like to know what systems folks have used/are using to keep their 
fermenting beer down to acceptable levels.  Ideas that have come to my 
mind (but I don't know about the effectiveness/affordability of) are 
refrigerators on a time clock, small boxed rooms with small air 
conditioners and such.  Any ideas?  Thanks in advance.

BobK

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Date: Mon, 9 Sep 91 11:56:51 mdt
From: Kent Dinkel <dinkel at hpmtaa.lvld.hp.com>
Subject: Fast Fermentation
Full-Name: Kent Dinkel

Hello Homebrewers,

Hoping to benefit from the collective wisdom of the more experienced
brewers!

On Saturday (9/7) I started brewing my 4th batch.  It's an attempt to brew
a bitter consisting of:

    6.6 lbs Munton Fison Amber Malt Extract
    13.2 bittering units (bu) worth of hops (bu = alpa content * ounces)
    .5 ounces Cascade hops (finishing)
    2 pkgs Munton Fison Ale Yeast

The problem (or maybe it's not a problem) is that the fermentation seems to
be completing in half as much time as my previous batches (from ~10 days to
~4 days).  Here are the gory details ....

After pitching the yeast (I pitch the yeast immediately after adding enough
cold water to fill the carboy), fermentation was going great guns after
only 2 hours!  (usually it takes at least twice this long).  However,
things have slowed down considerably and I went from the blowout hose to
the fermentation lock after only 1 day (usually it takes 2-3 days before
it's slowed down enough to go to the fermentation lock).  After only 2 days
in the carboy, I'm down to 1 bubble/minute out of the fermentation lock
(usually this takes at least seven days).  At this pace, it looks like
fermentation will be finished in a couple more days.

I've used Munton Fison yeast and malt extract before (although I used
specialty malts in previous brews), but fermentation took about twice as
long as this batch.  I don't *think* the temperature is involved since I
ferment in my basement and it's *cooler* now than my during my previous
fermentations.  Are 4 - 5 day fermentations uncommon?  Am I worrying too
much?  If my worrying is justified, any suggestions for remedies?

Sorry, I don't have specific gravity readings -- I'm trying to keep my time
down to 3-4 hours/batch (excluding drinking, of course!).  A couple of the
homebrewers that got me started suggested not bothering with specific
gravity readings.  Their opinion was that the additional risk of infection
from opening the fermenter was not worth getting the specific gravity
reading which is useful only to tell friends the alcohol content of the
beer.  (I'm sure that specific gravity is useful to the more serious
all-grain homebrewers.)  They convinced me that determining when the
fermentation is complete can be adequately performed visually by counting the
bubbles/minute out of the fermentation lock.  Should I break down and buy a
hydrometer?

Thanks in advance for your help,

Kent -- the worry wort (pun intended :-))

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Date: Mon, 09 Sep 91 12:40:26 PDT
From: florianb at chip.cna.tek.com
Subject: wheat malt and mashing

In as much as a wheat seedling has the ability to convert the starch in
the kernel to sugar necessary for pre-photosynthetic growth, it seems
reasonable that wheat has sufficient enzymatic content to convert
the starch in a mash.  Perhaps it is a matter of temperature and time
that dictates just how well the conversion takes place.

I normally use 3# wheat malt, 3# 6-row barley malt, and 1# munich malt
for a medium wheat beer.  I usually calculate the expected og of my
beers before mashing.  This recipe comes out within a few points of
the theoretical value, so the 50/50 ratio is good for wheat and 6-row.

*********

>From time to time, I read and note various techniques for settling the
mash and sparging.  The usual technique mentioned in the books involves
spraying or sprinkling 178 F water over the mash to sparge.  In former
times, I did this, but was always unhappy with the results, which were
cloudy finished beer.  In the last year, I have been using a different
technique suggested by my brother-in-law.  Its success in my case
has been born out by 20-30 batches of beer.  It is the following:

The mash is performed in a picnic cooler of the rectangular variety,
large enough to hold all of the mash and all of the sparge water.
After the mash is complete, I add all the sparge water at once, at the
temperature 178 F.  Then, I stir it to evenly distribute the grain
slurry throughout the water.  I then let it sit for a "long time", 
usually 1/2 to 1 hour.  When I can open the lid and see that the 
mixture appears clear on top, I begin to draw off wort from the tap
at the bottom of the picnic cooler.  This initial runoff (about 1-2 gallons)
is poured back into the top of the cooler, making damn sure that the
contents of the cooler are not violently disturbed.  After that, the
wort is allowed to run out at whatever rate it wants to into the boiler
pot.  I don't pay any attention to how fast it comes out.  My only
objective is to get it out.  As soon as I have half of it run out, I
begin to heat it on the stove, using a second pot to catch the second
half of the runoff.  By the time it is all run out, there is only
a little while left before the boil begins.  

This technique differs from the usual in that I don't use fresh
sparge water to rinse the "end" of the grains.  Noting once more that
my conversion efficiencies come out close to the theoretical values
and also that the clarity of my final beers has improved, I must 
conclude that this technique is better.  It certainly makes mashing
more enjoyable for me, since I don't have to let the runoff go at some
attenuated rate in order to improve sparging efficiency.  Being an
impatient person, I hated that part anyway.

Explanation?  Perhaps the "long time" sitting in the coole allows the
water to fully dissolve the available sugars, so that longer runoff
times are not needed.  In any case, it sure works for me!

Florian


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Date: Mon, 9 Sep 91 14:30:12 EDT
From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West)
Subject: Grain mill

This past weekend I visited the Brimfield Fair.
(the flea market to end all flea markets, 
I walked for 5 1/2 hours and covered less than half of it)

Among other things, I came home with a grain mill that appears 
to be able to a fine job of crushing malt without pulverizing the 
husk. Or making relatively fine flour.

The problem? The hopper is rather small. I would like to be 
able to put in more than 10oz of grain at a time. True, I can 
increase the capacity with careful use of a cut-off 2 or 3 litre 
soda bottle. But I might be interested in a larger hopper for it 
if I could find one. 

Which leads to the other problem; I don't know what make it is. 
It says `MADEinPOLAND' on the handle and has `OB' in a circle on 
the side of the main casting. The whole thing is tinned castiron 
except for the grinding plates which aren't tinned. 
Any ideas what make it is? What *did* I get anyway?


Carl


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Date: Mon, 9 Sep 91 18:55:23 PDT
From: polstra!norm at uunet.UU.NET (Norm Hardy)
Subject: Decoctions are a stirring experience

This being the summer of the decoction mash for me, I thought I would pass
along some observations of the process and the results so far:

(1) Some people erroneously think that doing a decoction mash will produce a
    maltier beer with aromas reminding them of Munich (or thereabouts).  I
    have found that this is true when using German malted barley.  But when
    using Klages, don't count on it.
(2) Doing decoctions (double or single) with Klages leads to a further
    attenuated beer.  This was true while using Wyeast 1056 Sierra yeast.
    Example:  my typical 1056 ale goes from OG 1.046 to FG 1.013 or 1.014 as
    a rule, doing a step mash or a single infusion.  With decoction mashes,
    here is what has happened:  (Case 1) OG 1.048 to FG 1.010; (Case 2) 
    OG 1.048 to FG 1.011; (Case 3) OG 1.044 to FG 1.009.  These were all my
    "typical" ale of 7-8 lbs Klages, .5-1 lb Crystal, etc.  The temperatures
    were 65-70f.  Again, it seems that the decoction mashes cause more of
    the maltose to be available to be eaten by the yeast.
(3) The taste is as expected dryer than usual, but smooth.

Is it worth the time and arm strength?  For German malts, yes; you can get
more of the malt character with the extended mashing process.  For Klages I
would say yes for a dryer beer only.  Those who prefer a heavier body (for
their beer) should shy away from the aerobic workout of decoction stirring.

Norm Hardy

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Date: Sat, 7 Sep 91 08:48 CDT
From: gargoyle!ddsw1.mcs.com!arf at charon.amdahl.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Nitrosamines

 
 
 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling
 
 RE: Article 240 (86 more) in rec.crafts.brewing:
 From: Paula Burch
 Subject: nitrosamines in homebrew?
 
 >I have read that beer is full of nitrosamines. I rarely 
 drink commercial beer, and so I wonder:
 
 Does homebrew contain nitrosamines?
 
 ARF says:
 
 I have been patiently waiting for someone to clear up this 
 issue but not seeing any knowledgeable response, I will put 
 forth what I know, which is just enough to be dangerous.
 
 Years ago, in the late seventies, I think, when the 
 nitrosamine business was first recognized, a report was 
 published listing the concentrations in commercial beers.
 
 I only recall a few benchmarks but it should provide fuel 
 for thought.
 
 At the very top was Heinekins and lots of imports.  
 
 Bud was right up there with them but I don't remember the 
 exact position of amount.
 
 Coors was at the very bottom with no detectable level.
 
 The "media" told us that there was something in Coors' 
 process that had something to do with heat (or lack of) that 
 prevented nitrosamines from forming.
 
 Shortly thereafter, "they" told us that all breweries had 
 switched to this process and the problem just went away.
 
 I didn't believe a word of this whitewash but that was about 
 the time I quit drinking and I am now very sorry that you 
 brought it up.
 
 jack schmidling
 

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #720, 09/10/91
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