---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  LOST IN SPACE (peck)
  Translations of teh German Beer Labels ("Ihor W. Slabicky")
  Dinkel, White, and CatsMeow.PS (michael gregg)
  english ales (Russ Gelinas)
  Beer categories (ASQNC-TABSM 5320) <jsova at APG-EMH5.APG.ARMY.MIL>
  EZ test for sugar content? (krweiss)
  Re: Cooling (David L. Kensiski)
  Rampant Infections... CURED! (Kevin L. McBride)
  Re: Iodine testing (Nick Thomas)
  Cooling (hersh)
  NE brewplaces (Russ Gelinas)
  Cooling (BJONES)
  liquid yeast cultures (Norm Pyle)
  Chiller; Fast Fermentations (Martin A. Lodahl)
  Re: O2 (Ken Giles)
  brewpubs in Seattle (mcnally)
  Re: copper cleaning (korz)
  The green brewer (Joshua Simon Shuken)
  begging kegging info (Mike Zulauf)
  CABA All About Ales Contest (MIKE LIGAS)


Send submissions to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues!]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Sep 91 02:12:56 -0700
From: peck at intel7.intel.com
Subject: LOST IN SPACE

Hi,
  It appears that two issues are lost, I never received HBD# 716 or 718!?
If any one has them, how about forwarding them or reposting them.

				Jim Peck

PECK at INTEL7.INTEL.COM

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Date: Tue, 10 Sep 91 08:41:31 -0400
From: "Ihor W. Slabicky" <iws at sgfb.ssd.ray.com>
Subject: Translations of teh German Beer Labels


I asked for a translation of a German beer label and got some excellent
responses - thanks!  Here's a summary...  (I think the last comments
for each item are the real version, as they were posted to me by a
fellow from Germany :-) )

> (on the neck label):
> 
> 	Kulmbacher
> 	Kapuziner Schwarze
> 	Dunkles, Hefetrubes Weizenbier

Kulmbacher is a famous German brewer.  "Kapuziner" is a brand name, and
"Schwarze" means "black".  "Dunkles" means "dark".  "Hefetrubes" means
there is yeast in the bottle.  "Weizenbier" is wheat beer.
So what you have is a bottle of Kulmbacher's "Kapuziner" dark wheat
beer, naturally carbonated.

Capuchin Black, Dark, Yeast-containing Wheat Beer from Kulmbach

Kulmbacher is the brewer.
Kapuziner is a name, Schwarze means black,
Dunkles is dark, Hefetrubes Weizenbeer is a bottle conditioned
Wheat beer (yeast on bottom).

Kulmbacher:	The Brewery.  Located in Kulmbach, northwest of Nuernberg.
Kapuziner Schwarze:	The 'style' of beer.  A "Kapuziner" is a Capuchin
Monk, and "Schwarze" means literally "black".  The brewery is located in a
monastary, so this should come as no suprise.  
Dunkles, Hefetrubes Weizenbier: "Dark, cloudy with yeast, wheat-beer"

> (on the main label):
> (on the left side of label):
> 
> 	Imported by Dieter Steinmann Inc.
> 	Garden City, NY (this is overprinted in the label)
> 
> 	Gebraut nach dem deutschen Reinheitsgebot

"Brewed according to the German Purity Law"

Gebraut nach dem deutschen Reinheitsgebot: Brewed according to the German
Beer Purity Law.

> 	alc. 5.3% / vol (this has overprinted with a black stripe,
> 			but I could just make it out)

Overprinted because American law forbids the printing of alcohol
content on beer labels.  (Go figure.)

> 	e 0,5 l

"Contents 0.5 liters"

"e" could be short for Enthalt, meaning contents.

The "e" stands for "einhalt" or "contents" as in contents: 0.5 liter.

e 0,5 l: "euronorm" 1/2 Liter
It was 1/2 l, but the 'e' has to do with standard measures as agreed
to by the European community.  Their 1/2liter isn't any different from
our 1/2 liter, but is it indicated as being the 'euronorm'.

> (on central area of label):
> 
> 	Kulmbacher
> 	Kapuziner
> 	Schwarze
> 	Hefeweizen

Again, "Kulmbacher Kapuziner black wheat beer"

> 	Kulmbacher Premium-Weizen

"Premium" means "best", just like in English.

Premium Wheat (beer) from Kulmbach

Kulmbacher Premium-Weizen:  Kulmbacher Premium Wheat-Beer

> 	1 Pint
> 	1 fl. oz. (again, overprinted)

Strange...0.5 liters is about 17 ounces.

1 Pint	: for those who can't hack the metric system
1 fl. oz.

> 	Imported beer
> 	Product of W.-Germany (overprinted)
> 
> (on right side of label):
> 
> 	(list of refund states - overprinted)
> 
> 	Hersteller:  Monchshofbrau Kulmbach

"Brewery:  Kulmbach's 'Monchshofbrau'"; that is, the name of the
Kulmbach's brewery that brewed this beer is "Monchshofbrau".

Manufacturer: The Kulmbach Monastic Brewery

Hersteller:  Monchshofbrau Kulmbach
Manufacturer:  Monastary-Brewery (in) Kulmbach

> 	Mindestens
> 	haltbar bis
> 
> 	22.11.89

"Best when used by November 22, 1989"

Leastwise holdable (will remain fresh at least) until November 22, 1989.

Mindestens haltbar bis 22.11.89
Consume before 11/22/89  (this was oooooooooold beer, probably didn't
taste too good, eh?.  Maybe a bit sour?)
Drink by.  Literally translated, it means "keepable until at least:".

> and on the second bottle, it says:
> 
> (on the neck label):
> 
> 	Kulmbacher
> 	Kapuziner Weizen
> 	Kristallklares Weizenbier

"Kristallklar" is the opposite of "Hefetrube"; there is no yeast in the bottle.

Capuchin Wheat Beer. Crystal Clear Wheat beer.

Kristallklares Weizenbier: "crystal-clear" (filtered) wheat-beer

> (on the main label):
> (on the left side of label):
> 
> 	Imported by Dieter Steinmann Inc.
> 	Garden City, NY (this is overprinted in the label)
> 
> 	Gebraut nach dem deutschen Reinheitsgebot
> 
> 	alc. 5.3% / vol (this has overprinted with a black stripe,
> 			and I could not make it out, though I assume
> 			it to be the same as the first bottle)
> 
> 	e 0,5 l
> 
> (on central area of label):
> 
> 	Kulmbacher
> 	Kapuziner
> 	Weizen
> 	Kristallklar
> 
> 	Kulmbacher Premium-Weizen
> 
> 	1 Pint
> 	1 fl. oz. (again, overprinted)
> 
> 	Imported beer
> 	Product of W.-Germany (overprinted)
> 
> (on right side of label):
> 
> 	(list of refund states - overprinted)
> 
> 	Hersteller:  Monchshofbrau Kulmbach
> 
> 	Mindestens
> 	haltbar bis
> 
> 	25.12.90

"Best when used by December 12, 1990"

Mindestens haltbar bis 	25.12.90:  ditto except 12/25/90, again ooooold.

>I bought both
>of these in the Spring of 1991, and drank them this week.  The
>Weizen beer did taste old.  The Schwarze was not too bad, probably
>because the stronger taste was able to disguise some of the old taste. 

Dark Weizen (aka Weissbier, weizen is a more Bavarian name) is always
stronger-tasting.

>Both beers had tremendous heads - like I'm used to seeing with the
>Spaten Weiss beer. The Schwarze had a bit of sediment in it - when
>I poured the first half of the bottle into a glass, it was okay, but
>when I swirled the sediment and poured that into the glass, the beer
>in the glass started to produce bubbles on it's own... 

All weizen beers have tremendous heads, especially if you don't pour
them correctly.  The one with the sediment in it is unfiltered, so
you get your full day's supply of B vitamins.  Frankly, I can't drink
Kristallweizen (filtered),  don't like the sweet taste.  The yeast
in the Hefeweizen (unfiltered) moderates the taste.  It is considered
very healthy in Bavaria.  In the North, they drink far and away more
Kristallweizen.  They think the yeast makes you fat.

The shelf life of weizen is reputed to be pretty short.  And the hefe-
weizen does not travel well.  When it gets old, it gets sour.  It should
be kept and drunk cold.  Unfortunately, it can get pretty warm in the
holds of those Polish freighters and in those warehouses in NJ.  I have
bought all of 6 bottles of weizen in the States and 3 of them were bad.
I drink it when I go to Germany only.  Or when it's fresh brewed here.
stronger-tasting.

So, again, thanks for the replies - Ihor

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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 91 00:11:40 EST
From: gregg at maddog.anu.edu.au (michael gregg)
Subject: Dinkel, White, and CatsMeow.PS

Hello everyone,

In reply to Kent Dinkel re short ferments and SG testing:

I am always interested in these stories about fermentations taking
"only" four days when they usually take 10.  Except for a couple of
batches I've had which turned out to have wild yeast contamination, I
have never (in my short career of 22 batches) had a ferment go longer
than 4 or 5 days and even then the exciting part is over in 2-3 days.
Maybe I'm the one with the problem! So much depends on the yeast, the
malt, the oxygen, etc.

Soapbox, please.

There are several good reasons to buy a hydrometer and do SG tests.  A
hydrometer is inexpensive, so cost is not an issue.  It takes only a
few minutes to test the wort, so it will not increase your time
brewing. Once you've used it awhile, you'll need to test only at the
start and end of fermentation when you have to open the fermenter
anyway, so there is no additional risk of contamination (just don't
put the test wort back in the batch!)  It is a good idea to know the
alcohol content of your beer, not just to tell your friends but so you
can exercise responsible judgment in drinking your creation.  6% beer
affects me a lot more than 3.2 and it's not always obvious from the
taste how much alcohol is in there.  The difference between final and
ending SG is a measure of the quality of your technique and
ingredients.  Not that high alcohol means you did it better, but the
SG tests before and after are another way to gauge how close you've
come to your intended goal, and the next time you brew that recipe
provide some measure of your repeatability (the hardest part of
homebrewing I believe).  Finally, for those of us copying a recipe
we've seen or tasted, knowing the start and end SG is a good (but not
sufficient) guide to duplicating the brew we liked.  I, for one, am
always a little annoyed to read a recipe that does not list the start
and end SG's; alcohol content is often a consideration in deciding
what to brew.  (I know, it is possible to estimate from the
ingredients, but that is tedious if you are flipping through a recipe
book.)  And if those aren't enough reasons, don't YOU want to know the
alcohol content of your beer, just out of curiosity?

So don't be a worry wort; buy a hydrometer, relax, and have a
homebrew.

On iodine testing (Jim White's question)

I bought my iodine at the drug store and it is indeed the stuff one
puts on cuts.  It turns jet black immediately in unconverted wort.  I
just put about 1/2 tsp of wort on a white plate and then add a drop of
iodine at the edge of the puddle.  If the iodine goes black or turns
dark in a few seconds, the mash is not done.  Don't use the grains,
just the wort.  To test your iodine (I don't think it can go bad, but
I'm not a chemist) put a drop on a slice of raw potato.  If it doesn't
turn blue-black, get a different kind of iodine.  If your mash at the
start can't make the iodine black, maybe your malt is at fault.  I
have found the iodine test to be quite definite; suddenly after about 60
min of infusion mashing, the iodine no longer turns black.  The only
trouble I've had is doing stouts, which I make very dark.  It is a
little hard to tell if the iodine turns black when you add it to a
black liquid!  So if there are other methods, I would be interested
too.

And finally, about the PostScript version of Cat's Meow.  

I had two problems printing it out, and find I am not alone.  From a
Sun Sparcstation, I could get only the last page of each ps file to
print and some of the characters were incorrect, like apostrophes
became U's, so I got CatUs Meow.  After several suggestions from
helpful brewers, the problem was solved by ftp-ing the files to a
MacII and using a postscript downloader to send them to a laser
printer.  I would like to request that someone with a UNIX (Sun or
otherwise) printable copy put it in the archives to save future
generations the hassle I experienced.


Michael Gregg (somewhere over the rainbow)

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Date:    Tue, 10 Sep 1991 10:13:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: english ales

Just delivered to my office: One bottle of Pilsner Urquell, direct from
Czechslovakia, via Hungary, dated OCT91.  I had also requested a Budvar,
but that didn't happen for a number of reasons.  My friend tells me that
the Budvar he had was delicious.  Hungarian beer was so-so.

Just by chance, I just received a case of Pilsner Urquell as a gift (when it 
rains it pours.  That's a pun.).  So I plan to do a blind taste test of the US 
version and the Czech version.  Life is good.

And it will stay good.  This world traveller friend of mine is off for
England next week, and he says "I'll have much more luggage space available
this time"!  So, I'm looking for recommendations for English brews that are
unavailable in the US.  Hmm, a lambic would be a good idea too... 

Russ

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Date:     Tue, 10 Sep 91 10:13:04 EDT
From: Jeanne Sova (ASQNC-TABSM 5320) <jsova at APG-EMH5.APG.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:  Beer categories

morning all,

i hate to admit this, but i have had michelob... and enjoyed it.  but since i
started receiving this list, your appreciation for good beer and your desire
to change americans' attitude toward beer has rubbed off. i've had this 
overwhelming urge to try new, "real" beers.  so last night i had a sierra
nevada big foot ale.  and let me tell you, michelob is like water compared
to it.  now to me, the novice without much experience tasting real beer,
i would describe it as strong, with a powerfull aftertaste.  i mean, i had 
finished a sip and already put the bottle down when i was smacked in the 
face with the taste.  my question is, to you coneseiurs, how would this beer 
be described?  is it considered hoppy, fruity, or what?  sorry to waste your
time with such trivial questions, but if i'm gonna start brewing my own, i
want to develop this appreciation, as well as the knowledge of what it is 
i may actuallybe brewing.  thanks.

jeanne

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Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1991 08:26:46 -0800
From: krweiss at ucdavis.edu
Subject: EZ test for sugar content?

And no, I'm not sure a specific gravity reading will tell me what I need to
know...

About 4 batches ago I bought a 5 lb. sack of "corn sugar" to use for
priming, instead of the little bags of "priming sugar" available at my
homebrew shoppe. The "priming sugar" also contained a bit of citric acid
and some heading agent, but I figured the bulk of it had to be corn sugar,
so what the heck.

I've had several batches of beer come out totally flat since changing my
priming sugar. The most recent batch used Wyeast Irish Ale yeast, which
fermented like mad in the primary. I bottled with a priming syrup made of
3/4 cup corn sugar in about 1 pint of water, boiled for five minutes. I
pour the priming syrup into the big glass carboy and siphon the beer out of
my secondary on top of the syrup. Then I stir for a full minute with the
racking tube, and proceed with bottling.

The bottles clear nicely, and leave a nice layer of yeast sediment at the
bottom, so I know there's yeast in the brew. I suspect that there's simply
nothing in my priming syrup that the yeast can eat.

I'm curious about whether I'm a victim of a labelling error or something. I
tasted the "corn sugar", and it's sweet, but not as sweet as table sugar.

Is there an easy way to test this stuff at home, without benefit of access
to a chem lab? I'd like to find out if it really *is* dextrose, and not
lactose or some other non-fermentable sugar, and I'd like to find out if it
is pure dextrose, or whether there is a non-fermentable adulterant in this
sack. After three consecutive batches of flat beer, I'd like to know
whether I've got a process problem or an ingredient problem.

The beers, BTW, taste just fine. They simply don't have enough carbonation
to raise a head or tickle my nose.

Ken Weiss               krweiss at ucdavis.edu
Computing Services      916/752-5554
U.C. Davis
Davis, CA 95616


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Date: Tue, 10 Sep 91 08:56:16 -0700
From: kensiski at nas.nasa.gov (David L. Kensiski)
Subject: Re: Cooling

In HBD #720, Bob Konigsberg <Bob_Konigsberg at 3mail.3com.com> writes:

> I'd like to know what systems folks have used/are using to keep their 
> fermenting beer down to acceptable [temperature] levels.

The easist method of controlling temperature I've found was simply to
put the fermentation vessel in a bathtub and fill the tub with water
up to the level of the wort in the vessel.  I monitored the temp of
the water in the tub and when it reached 75 degrees, I put a couple of
gallon milk jugs of ice in until the temperature was back down to 65
degrees.

With the mass of water in the bathtub, I was able to keep the tub
temperature within that 10 degree range with just one ice immersion
per day.  You could probably get a finer temp range by more frequent
immersion, as long as you have enough ice.  With a 24 hour dipping,
I was able to refreeze the milk jugs and use them the next day.

- --Dave
________________________________________________________________________
David L. Kensiski [KB6HCN]              Numerical Aerodynamic Simulation
kensiski at nas.nasa.gov               NASA Ames Research Center, M/S 258-6   
(415)604-4417                       Moffett Field, California 94035-1000


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Date: Tue, 10 Sep 91 8:12:00 EDT
From: gozer!klm at uunet.UU.NET (Kevin L. McBride)
Subject: Rampant Infections... CURED!

Many thanks to those of you who responded to my desperate pleadings a
while back.

I scrubbed the dickens out of my kitchen with a weak chlorine
solution, and I now make sure that the A/C fan is off when beer is
exposed to the air.  I believe that what I had was an airborn
infection of some sort, either a mold or a wild yeast.  I have also
taken to liberally spraying the air with Lysol several minutes prior
to exposing my beer.

I have changed nothing else in my procedures and have already gotten
one excellent batch of beer, with a 2nd batch to be kegged today. For
my first batch under the new "Clean Air Act" :-), I used the same
yeast that I had used when I was getting bad infections.  I did this
to see if it really was the air or if it was the yeast.  The beer came
out superb so I guess it was the air.  The yeast was Whitbread Ale, my
usual favorite.

The batch going into the keg today was fermented with Wyeast #1056.
The quality of this beer remains to be seen, but I have a good feeling
about it.  (It probably won't last long enough for any latent
infections to take hold anyway. :-)

Thanks again to all you helpful folks, and a big thanks to Rob for
running the best damned digest on the net.

- -- 
Kevin

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ning
and BFDers who are curious can try it at the October meeting (if there
is any left.)

Thanks to Mike Sharp for the enormous bag of Cascade hops that he sold
to me for dirt cheap.  I'm glad you got tired of Cascade, Mike, cause
I love 'em.  If you've got any more, I'll take 'em cause I've almost
used that whole bag already.

- -- 
Kevin

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Date: Tue, 10 Sep 91 10:52:36 PDT
From: Nick.Thomas at Eng.Sun.COM (Nick Thomas)
Subject: Re: Iodine testing


> 
> Iodine testing:
> 
> Having never done this before, I decided I'd do an iodine test right at the
> beginning of the mash, so I'd have a benchmark comparison. I took a tablespoon
> or so of the mash and put it in a white saucer a dabbed a couple drops of
> 'tinture of iodine' into it. Though I didn't expect the sample to, instantly,
> turn jet black.... I was unable to notice any significant color change!
> 
> The tincture is a dark reddish color to begin with, so when mixed it did
> effect a color change, but nothing like I expected. After about 45 minutes
> at 152 F, I rpeated the test, and again noticed no color change.
> 
> Did I use the right stuff? This iodine was like what we used to apply to
> cuts, etc. Is there a colorless iodine I should've used?
> 
> Is there a better way to ascertain the status of the starch conversion? I
> also tried a taste test, hoping to notice a difference in sweetness, but I
> felt this was also inconclusive. Sigh ....
> 



Jim,

	I had the same problem with my first mash.  The answer is that
there are two types of Tincture of Iodine sold over
the counter.  One works for this test and the other doesn't.
I *think* 
they put a coloring in one that interferes with the test.
Try a different brand.

 -nick



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Date: Tue, 10 Sep 91 14:30:14 EDT
From: hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Cooling


I used to use an AC in a small room. This was much too inefficient though.
Now I have a spare fridge with a Hunter Air Stat Energy Monitor (+- 2 degree
control :-). You can get the Air Stat for $20-25 and it will work much better
than a timer could to keep an accurate temperature. Oh yeah you gotta punch a
hole in the side of the fridge, cut the temp probe wire, run it through the
hole, and wire it back together, but that's pretty minor...

 - JaH


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Date:    Tue, 10 Sep 1991 14:36:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: NE brewplaces

Here's a list of microbreweries and brewpubs in New England.  There's a good
chance I've missed some, but this should be mostly complete as of 9/10/91.  RG


     New England brewpubs/micros
     ---------------------------
MB - microbrewery
BP - brewpub

CONNECTICUT

Bristol
MB     Charter Oak Brewing Co.
       Bristol, CN

New Haven
MB     New Haven Brewing Co
       458 Grand Ave.
       New Haven, CN 06513
       203-772-2739

Norwalk
MB     New England Brewing Co
       Norwalk, CN

MAINE

Bar Harbor
MB     Bar Harbor Brewing Co.
       Bar Harbor, ME
       Lompoc Cafe carries - Thunder Hole Ale

Portland
MB     D.L. Geary Brewing Co.
       Portland, ME

BP     Gritty McDuff's
       396 Fore St.
       Portland, ME 04101
       207-772-2739


MASSACHUSETTS

Boston
MB     Boston Beer Company (Sam Adams)
       30 Germania Street
       Boston, MA (Jamica Plains)
       617-522-9080

BP     Commonwealth Brewing Co
       138 Portland St.
       Boston, MA 02114
       617-523-8383

MB     Mass Bay Brewing Co (Harpoon Ale)
       306 Northern Ave.
       Boston, MA
       617-574-9551

Cambridge
BP     Cambridge Brewing Co.
       1 Kendall Square
       Cambridge, MA
       617-494-1994

Northampton
BP     Northampton Brewery at Brewster Court Bar and Grill
       Northhampton, MA


NEW HAMPSHIRE

Portsmouth
BP     Portsmouth Brewery
       Portsmouth, NH


VERMONT

Brattleboro
BP     Dewey's Ale House
       Brattleboro, VT

BP     Latchis Grill and Windham Brewery
       Brattleboro, VT

Bridgewater
MB     Mountain Brewers Inc
       Bridgewater, VT

Burlington
BP     Northhampton Brewing
       Burlinton, VT

BP     The Vermont Pub & Brewery
       144 College St
       Burlington, VT 05401
       802-965-0500

Middlebury
MB     Otter Creek Brewing Co.
       Middlebury, VT

White River Junction
MB     Catamount Brewing Co.
       58 S. Main St.
       White River Junction, VT 05001
       802-296-2248

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Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1991 12:53 PDT
From: BJONES at NOVA.llnl.gov
Subject: Cooling

Reply to Bob Konigsberg regarding cooling :

I picked up an old resturant milk cooler at the Salvation Army
several years ago. You know the kind where you lift the ball to
get some milk. It is all stainless steel and holds two 5 gal
carbouys including airlocks or blow-off tubes. I rewired to
allow for a commercial thermostat to better control temp. Really
required since most frigs won't adjust warm enough for fermentation.
I also have a glow coil heater connected to thermostat allowing me 
to make ales in the winter. Works great! Granted it was luck finding
this thing, you might try used resturant supply places if you feel
lucky. An old frig. obviously will work well, however they take more
room and use more power but hold more stuff.
I also recently installed a window air conditioner in my wine/beer
cellar. You need to vent the hot air outside or under the house as I 
did. You will also need to re-wire with a similar thermostat to better
control unit. I use a 1/2 ton for a small room located off my garage.
It keeps the liquids in the room at 60f within about a 1/2 degree. 
You need lots of thermal mass (ie beer and wine) to keep the temp 
constant. Don't skimp on the insulation around the room, its money 
in the bank. My unit only runs a few hours a day on the hottest days.
Warning. Fermentation temps. below 65f will result in slow fermentations. 
Yeast need to be selected and acclimate themselves to cool temps to work 
well. Low temperatures and low pitching volumes make for slow fermentations 
and result in poor attenuation. I primarily use my air conditioned room
for long term storage. Makes a big difference on the long term life of beer
(as if you might have this problem).

                                        Bob Jones
                                        BJONES at NOVA.LLNL.GOV


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Date: Tue, 10 Sep 91 14:04:05 -0600
From: Norm Pyle <pyle at intellistor.com>
Subject: liquid yeast cultures

My latest brew - a English bitter recipe - was my first try with a liquid yeast
culture.  I read on the package (Wyeast London Ale) that it should take about
12 hours for the yeast to be viable (at 70 - 80 F) after rupturing the internal
yeast packet.  It also said to add one day to this number for each month past
the date stamped on the package.

I ruptured the packet in the morning, figuring on brewing the following evening.
I just left it out on the counter since the air temperature was around 70 F.
Well, within 8 - 10 hours the package was swelling to alarming proportions and
I decided that I should brew as soon as possible to prevent an exploded yeast
package and a contaminated culture (a friend had this happen to him).

Since I was ill-prepared to brew that evening, I had not pre-boiled and cooled
my water.  So I ended up with hot wort and hot water in my fermenter, with no
hope of cooling it that night (I don't have a chiller and it was 11 pm).  I
threw the yeast package in the fridge to prevent further swelling until I
could pitch in the morning.

To make a long story long, I pitched the following morning and didn't get any
activity for about 30 hours.  Now it seems to be fine, but I'm concerned (not
worried, mind you) that the long lag time may have allowed other beasties to
work on my wort.

Should I have left the yeast package out of the fridge overnight and risked
explosion?  Should I have made a starter wort instead and just brewed the
following night when I would have been more prepared?  What are some of the
methods that you HBD'ers have used to make starter worts?  Do you leave them
in a small pot, put it in a jar, or ...?

It seems to me that the pure yeast strains are a better way to go but I hate
spending an extra almost $4 for something that leaves my wort (and work)
hanging out in the wind for a day and a half.  The dry yeasts I've used in
the past have been very active in 8 hours or less.

As always, we thank you for your support.
Norm
pyle at intellistor.com

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Date: Tue, 10 Sep 91 12:46:28 PDT
From: Martin A. Lodahl <hpfcmr.fc.hp.com!hplabs!pbmoss!malodah>
Subject: Chiller; Fast Fermentations

In HOMEBREW Digest #720, Thomas Manteufel observed:

>	... I have a 8ft or so length of soft copper tubing
> I can use for an immersion wort chiller ...

I use 50', and sometimes feel it isn't enough.  With that little
surface area, you really won't get much heat transfer.  When I was
using 1/4" tubing instead of my present 3/8", I used 100', which
seems like a nice round number.

And in the same issue, Kent Dinkel had a problem with Fast Fermentation:

>The problem (or maybe it's not a problem) is that the fermentation seems to
>be completing in half as much time as my previous batches (from ~10 days to
>~4 days).  Here are the gory details ....

I've had the "going great guns" stage take anywhere from 3 weeks to
18 hours, depending on the recipe, yeast, degree of aeration,
temperature, and for all I know, phase of the moon and conjunction
of the stars.  It can vary quite a bit ...

>	....  I don't *think* the temperature is involved since I
>ferment in my basement and it's *cooler* now than my during my previous
>fermentations.

It's possible, though unlikely, the the previous fermentations were
actually warmer than that yeast considers optimal ...

>  Are 4 - 5 day fermentations uncommon?

By no means.

>		...  Am I worrying too
> much?  If my worrying is justified, any suggestions for remedies?

Possibly, or possibly not.  It's possible that fermentation is
"stuck" and only partially complete, and only your hydrometer
readings could tell you for sure.  The problem with bottling in that
case is that if fermentation restarts, you could end up with glass
grenades.

>Sorry, I don't have specific gravity readings -- I'm trying to keep my time
>down to 3-4 hours/batch (excluding drinking, of course!).  A couple of the
>homebrewers that got me started suggested not bothering with specific
>gravity readings.

Bad advice.

>  Their opinion was that the additional risk of infection
>from opening the fermenter was not worth getting the specific gravity
>reading which is useful only to tell friends the alcohol content of the
>beer.

Au contraire, it's most useful in exactly this case.  Frankly, I
could care less about the alcohol content of my beer.  But I DO care
if it's ready to bottle or not!  Your friends have a very strong
point in that the daily checks we're all tempted to do at first are
more of an infection risk than anything else.  But you really should
divert a little wort before pitching to measure the SG and to taste,
and when you think it might be done, measure the gravity again.  I
virtually never measure more than 3 times in a batch.

>  (I'm sure that specific gravity is useful to the more serious
> all-grain homebrewers.)

Less so than to extract brewers, actually, because of the
relationship between stuck fermentations and extracts described in
earlier HBD items on the study by Ingledew, et al., at the University
of Saskatchewan.

>  They convinced me that determining when the
>fermentation is complete can be adequately performed visually by counting the
>bubbles/minute out of the fermentation lock.

That's all well and good, but it really tells you more about the
present rate of fermentation than about its cumulative progress.  It
would be enough, if the only reason fermentations ever stopped was
that the yeast ran out of grub.  But that just ain't so ...

>	...  Should I break down and buy a hydrometer?

Yes.  And a good book (Miller or Papazian).

But for this present batch, even if you don't know the initial
gravity, the present gravity might give you a clue to its status. 
Frankly, I'd bottle without worry if it were below 1.012 or so.

= Martin A. Lodahl   			Pacific*Bell Systems Analyst =
= malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM       Sacramento, CA       916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =


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Date: Tue, 10 Sep 91 08:20:24 PDT
From: keng at ic.MENTORG.COM (Ken Giles)
Subject: Re: O2

In HBD #710 Russ Gelinas says:

>   Here's a data point on adding oxygen after ferment has started.  I made a
> full mash (!) recipe this weekend, but ended up with only 3 gallons of wort
> in the carboy.  I pitched the yeast (Wyeast Chico ale slurry from the
> previous batch) and went to sleep.  The next day there was a nice small but
> very dense krausen on the brew.  I added 2 gallons of boiled cooled water
> to it (and of course it foamed and splashed a lot), and within 2 hours it was 
> fermenting harder than any I've ever seen.  I've pitched slurry before and
> the ferment was strong, but this was still *much* stronger, so I blame the O2.
> Yeast use up the O2 in their reproductive phase, correct?  So the O2 should
> have helped them to make lots of other little yeasties, all of whom like
> to eat.  Hopefully too, there'll be a nice thick slurry to save for the
> next batch.

Russ, I don't want to start you worrying, but introduction of oxygen after
the yeast have begun fermentation can cause excessive levels of diacetyl to be
produced. So much, in fact, that the yeast's diacetyl reducing capability can't 
handle it all. The reason is that certain fermentation by-products (sorry, don't 
have my reference material with me) will combine with dissolved oxygen to form 
diacetyl. The dissolved oxygen introduced at pitch time is meant to be consumed 
by the yeast reproduction process.

But don't worry, diacetyl perception is highly variable in different people. And 
I happen to like it in low concentrations (i.e. Sam Adams Boston Lager).

kg.

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Date: Tue, 10 Sep 91 17:43:19 -0700
From: mcnally at Pa.dec.com
Subject: brewpubs in Seattle


OK, OK, I know the Digest isn't really about this kinda thing, but I
find myself in a desparate position and I guess I'm weak.  I need
suggestions about brewpubs in Seattle, particularly those close to
(in?) Bellevue.  Isn't there one in Kirkland?

OB homebrew note:  I started a barley wine over the weekend.  Mashing
twelve pounds of grain is a chore.  I did decide that an advantage to
decoction mashing is that some of the hot break material forms in the
final boil for the last decoction, and this stuff will settle into the
grain bed.  The wort was unbelievably clear, and I got relatively little
boiler trub (especially considering I used 2 pounds of flaked barley).
I guess if *too* much break material is in the lauter tun one could 
get kinda stuck.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike McNally                                           mcnally at wsl.dec.com
Digital Equipment Corporation
Western Software Lab

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Date: Tue, 10 Sep 91 17:37 CDT
From: ihlpl!korz at att.att.com
Subject: Re: copper cleaning

Thomas--
8 feet of copper tubing is not nearly enough for an immersion chiller.
What you want is something on the order of 50 feet.
Al.

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Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1991 23:56:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Joshua Simon Shuken <jsbn+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: The green brewer




I would like to try to brew my own beer. I have no knowledge or
expirence in making beer but have a lot of enthusiaism. If anyone can
help, with info, mail order suppliers, where to go, what to do, etc... I
would be very thankful.



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Date: Tue, 10 Sep 91 22:54:37 -0600
From: Mike Zulauf <zulauf at orbit.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: begging kegging info


Hi everybody!

     I've got a few questions about kegging equipment.  I am looking into
getting a system for a minimum of time and fuss.  Does anyone know, for
example, what a complete system from Foxx would cost?  By complete, I mean
keg, CO2 cylinder, regulator, two guages, and all hoses, connector's, etc.
Since Foxx has an outlet in Denver, and I live in Boulder, would I be able
to save by picking it up from them directly?

     In the Classified section of the latest _Zymurgy_ there are some other
possibilities.  East Coast Brewing Supply in Staten Island has a system
for $205.  Black Mountain Homebrew Supply has a system for $150, shipping
included.  IMO Homebrew and Meadery Supply has a system with 2 kegs for
$199.  Other suppliers, that don't list prices, include Braukunst in
Carleton Minnesota, Koeppl's Brewing in Rolling Meadows Illinois, and
Ozzies (?) in Comstock Park Michigan.

     Has anyone had any experience with any of these businesses?  Does
anyone have any other suggestions?  I would prefer to be able to buy the
entire system in one place, with a minimum of effort.  Of course I would
also like to do this without bankrupting myself!

Thanks in advance!
                   Mike Zulauf
                   zulauf at orbit.colorado.edu

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Date: 	Wed, 11 Sep 1991 01:43:00 -0400
From: MIKE LIGAS <LIGAS at SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA>
Subject: CABA All About Ales Contest

As promised when I first notified HD readers about the upcoming Canadian
Amateur Brewers Association (CABA) "All About Ales Contest", here are the
recently released details of what, where, when and how to enter.

******************************************************************************
ENTRY DEADLINE:

Entries must arrive at 'To Your Taste' before 5:00 pm, Friday, October 4th,
1991. Late entries will not be judged. No exceptions will be made!


WHAT TO ENTER:

1. Only homebrewed beer can be entered.
2. Homebrewed beer includes beer crafted by the entrant at an "on premise"
   commercial establishment.
3. Beer must be classified as one of the classes listed (see CLASS
   DESCRIPTIONS below).
4. Beer must be bottled in brown or green 284-355 ml glass beer bottles clean
   and free from any identifying marks.
5. Three bottles of each entry are required. The first bottle must be submitted
   by October 4th, 1991. For those passing to the second round, two more
   bottles will be required by October 22nd, 1991.
6. CABA entry forms and recipe sheets must be filled out and submitted.


HOW TO ENTER:

1. Select as many beer classes as you wish to enter.
2. Submit one clean, unmarked 284-355 ml brown or green glass beer bottle of
   beer for each class entered.
3. Complete a recipe sheet for each class entered and attach it along with the
   entry fee ($5.00 for members, $7.50 for non-members). Attach the entry form
   to each bottle with a rubber band (DO NOT USE GLUE OR ADHESIVE TAPE). Entry
   fees must be made payable to CABA.
4. Deliver or send your entries to 'To Your Taste'.
5. Only one bottle of each entry is required for the first round of judging.
   Those individuals passing on to the second round will be notified by
   telephone between 7:00 and 10:00 pm, Thursday and Friday, October 10th and
   11th. A further two bottles will then be required by 5:00 pm, October 22nd,
   1991.

Note: This change in rules is hoped to lessen the shipping cost for members.
      If however you wish to submit all three bottles for the October 4th
      deadline, attach the recipe sheet and entry fee to bottle one, and the
      labels provided to the other two entries. *LATE ENTRIES WILL NOT BE
      JUDGED*.


WHERE TO SEND ENTRIES:

'To Your Taste' has generously offered to assist with the collection of
entries. Take or send your entries to:

                        To Your Taste
                        317 Jane Street
                        Toronto, Ontario
                        Canada, M6S 3Z3

The phone number for 'To Your Taste' is: (416) 767-8951

If you are sending your entries, you may use either Bus Parcel Express (BPX) or
United Parcel Service (UPS). Check the white pages in your telephone directory.

If you are asked the contents of the package, answer "Bottles but they are
double boxed and well padded".

*Please pack your entries well. Broken entries cannot be judged!*

Line the inside of the carton with a plastic garbage bag. Partition and pack
each bottle with adequate material, top, sides and bottom.


JUDGING

First round judging will be done by recognized beer judges between October 7th
and 10th, 1991. Those passing to second round will be notified as described
above.

Second round and best of show judging will be done by recognized beer judges on
October 26th. The decisions of the judges will be final.


AWARDS

Awards for first, second and third in each beer class, best of show and novice
will be presented on October 26th, 1991, at the Awards Dinner following the
Annual General Meeting. Prizes which have been donated by suppliers will also
be presented at that time. All entrants will receive the judging sheets used to
evaluate their entry.


CLASS DESCRIPTIONS

Class 1: Canadian Ale
 - a mild, pale, light bodied ale about 4.75% alc/vol. Full hop and malt
  flavour.

Class 2: Pale Ale
 - this class represents the classic pale ale. With original gravities greater
  than 1.050, these ales are usually dry and hoppy, due in part to hard water
  high in calcium carbonates and sulphates.

Class 3: English Bitter
 - gold to copper coloured. Low carbonation. Medium bitterness. May or may not
  have hop flavour and/or aroma. Low to medium maltiness. Light to medium body.
  Original gravity less than 1.050.

Class 4: Brown Ale
 - typically a sweet, dark brown brew from Southern England, with 3 to 3.5%
  alc/vol. Drier and more reddish-brown further north, 4.4 to 5% alc/vol.

Class 5: Trappist
 - amber to copper. Spicy with slight sourness. Fruity/estery. Hints of banana
  or clove. Alcohol evident. Malty. Medium bitterness. Hop flavour can be
  evident. Hop aroma low.

Class 6: Porter
 - a dark English medium-bodied ale originating in London. Its darkness comes
  from the use of black patent malt rather than roasted barley as in Stout.
  High hopping lightens the mouth feel to give a clean, quick finish to an
  otherwise heavy beer. Varying in style from bitter to mild to sweet, dark
  brown to black. London style Porter can be from 5 to 7.5% alc/vol.

Class 7: Dry Stout
 - heavy hopping and the use of roasted, unmalted barley create a clean, bitter,
  roasted coffee-like character with little hop flavour or bouquet. This is the
  Irish stout style and is 3.5 to 6% alc/vol.


OBTAINING ENTRY FORMS AND RECIPE SHEETS

Members will receive this information by mail. Non-members should request entry
forms and sheets from:

                                CABA
                                19 Cheshire Drive
                                Islington, Ontario
                                Canada, M9B 2N7
******************************************************************************

If you have any questions feel free to send them my way. I will also send info
about the CABA to anyone who is interested and who missed the advertisement
posted in HD a few months ago.

Mike Ligas
P.O. Box 668
Waterdown, Ontario
Canada, L0R 2H0

ligas at sscvax.cis.mcmaster.ca


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #721, 09/11/91
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