---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Re: Fast Fermentation (Darryl Okahata)
  Re:  Liquid Yeast Starter (John DeCarlo)
  Re: liquid yeast (ingr!b11!mspe5!guy)
  Cat's Meow (William R Tschantz)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #718 (Richard Stueven)
  Brewpubs in Rochester NY (Will Allen)
  Addr: Adios (for now) (RJS153)
  Re: liquid yeast cultures (Ken Giles)
  Bottling technique (Al Richer)
  Honey Ales ("MR. DAVID HABERMAN")
  zip city:cloves? ("KATMAN.WNETS385")
  Yeast starters (Ted Manahan)
  Chico Ale Yeast????? (klm)
  starter, O2 (Russ Gelinas)
  Corn vs. Cane (Ed Kesicki)
  Nomenclature (Conn Copas)
  Cat's Meow translator (David Suda)
  Address change (Laura Lawson - UE/WST Operations)
  Mead, Dry-Hop, Wort Chiller (Chad Epifanio)
  Nitrosamines in Beer (Jeff Frane)
  Hot Break (Norm Pyle)
  Loose hops, Wort chiller (Carl West)
  Decompressing mthvax.miami.edu Archive Files (MIKE LIGAS)
  Re: liquid yeast cultures (Darryl Okahata)
  Trouble-shooting. (Dave Rose)
  New England Beer Club (bob)
  Re: translate German label (Fritz Keinert)
  Re: Beer categories (korz)
  Re: Cooling (korz)
  Klages malt (Dave Rose)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #721 (September 11, 1991) (DeMello)


Send submissions to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues!]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 91 00:16:31 PDT
From: Darryl Okahata <darrylo at hpnmxx.sr.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Fast Fermentation

     Kent Dinkel <dinkel at hpmtaa.lvld.hp.com> talks about a recipe of his:

> On Saturday (9/7) I started brewing my 4th batch.  It's an attempt to brew
> a bitter consisting of:
> 
>     6.6 lbs Munton Fison Amber Malt Extract
>     13.2 bittering units (bu) worth of hops (bu = alpa content * ounces)
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     .5 ounces Cascade hops (finishing)
>     2 pkgs Munton Fison Ale Yeast

I'd like to point out that there are more than one "bittering unit"
definition/"standard".  The one that is mentioned here is really "AAU"s
(Alpha-Acid Units).  I don't know how widespread this is, but I've only
seen "bu" and "bittering units" (as in "40 bittering units") used only in
conjunction with "IBU"s (Internation Bittering Units), which is quite
different from AAUs.

     For more information, see the article "Calculating Hop Bitterness
in Beer" by Jackie Rager, in the special 1990 issue of Zymurgy.

     -- Darryl Okahata
	Internet: darrylo at sr.hp.com

DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not
constitute the support, opinion or policy of Hewlett-Packard or of the
little green men that have been following him all day.


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Date: Wednesday, 11 Sep 1991 09:40:46 EDT
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re:  Liquid Yeast Starter

>From: Norm Pyle <pyle at intellistor.com>

>I ruptured the packet in the morning, figuring on brewing the
>following evening.  I just left it out on the counter since the
>air temperature was around 70 F.  Well, within 8 - 10 hours the
>package was swelling to alarming proportions and I decided that
>I should brew as soon as possible to prevent an exploded yeast
>package and a contaminated culture (a friend had this happen to
>him).

I am also wary of overswelling, though I believe that previous
explosions were due to a problem with packaging that has since
been fixed.

>To make a long story long, I pitched the following morning and
>didn't get any activity for about 30 hours.  Now it seems to be
>fine, but I'm concerned (not worried, mind you) that the long
>lag time may have allowed other beasties to work on my wort.

I now (from experience) advise people to *always* make a
starter.  Pitching straight in from the packet is a sure way to
make one worry. :-)

Here is how I make my starter culture.  I use an old orange juice
bottle that fits the stopper I use on my primary--that way I just
transfer the airlock and stopper from the starter to the primary.

I boil some water in and around the starter bottle, letting it
boil away.  During this time I boil up about a quart of 1.020
wort (no hops).  (Calculating the 1.020 is slightly unsettling to
me, since I invariably do it in my head at the last moment.
It usually comes out to be a couple of ounces of dry malt
extract.  One quart is 1/20 of a 5 gallon batch, etc.)

When the wort has boiled ten minutes or so, I pour out the
boiling water from the starter bottle and pour in the boiling
wort.  This sits on a trivet in the air for awhile until it is
just hot to the touch.  Then I cool it in a cold water bath in
the sink (trying to avoid temperature shock that would break the
glass).

Then I flame the outside of the yeast package, cut open, flame
again, and pour into the starter wort.  Put the airlock on, and
use it in the next day or three, making sure it gets a krauesen
on it first.

This inevitably leads to a fast start, within hours, of fermentation.
Really makes it easy for me to relax and enjoy the fermentation process.

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
           (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 91 9:04:19 CDT
From: ingr!ingr!b11!mspe5!guy at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Re: liquid yeast

In Digest #721, Norm Pyle writes:

[ Majority of swollen yeast tale deleted ]

> To make a long story long, I pitched the following morning and didn't get any
> activity for about 30 hours.  Now it seems to be fine, but I'm concerned (not
> worried, mind you) that the long lag time may have allowed other beasties to
> work on my wort.
>
> Should I have left the yeast package out of the fridge overnight and risked
> explosion?  Should I have made a starter wort instead and just brewed the
> following night when I would have been more prepared?  What are some of the
> methods that you HBD'ers have used to make starter worts?  Do you leave them
> in a small pot, put it in a jar, or ...?
>
> It seems to me that the pure yeast strains are a better way to go but I hate
> spending an extra almost $4 for something that leaves my wort (and work)
> hanging out in the wind for a day and a half.  The dry yeasts I've used in
> the past have been very active in 8 hours or less.

    I had a similar thing happen to me this past weekend.  I received my order
from Alternative Beverage containing the supplies for my Christmas beer.  I had
intended to wait a couple of days to brew it because there are a couple of guys
at work who are interested in brewing and they wanted to come over and sit in.
Well, UPS had performed their famous drop-test on the package with sufficient
force to rupture the bubble in the yeast packet (WYeast Irish Stout #1084) and
it was threatening to explode when I opened the box.  I made a starter solution
with 1/2 cup DME and 1 cup water and put it into a beer bottle with an airlock.
I then set off to buy the spices and planned to brew the next day (Saturday).
I brewed the beer on Saturday evening and the whole house smelled Christmasy.
At about 11:30 p.m. I pitched the yeast into the carboy, put on an air lock,
and went to bed.  When I got up Sunday morning, the foam was threatening to
blow the stopper out so I put on a blowoff tube (5 gallons of beer in a 6.5
gallon carboy).  Now, I have used this same yeast in a stout and I did not make
a starter for it that time.  It took 12 - 14 hours before *any* signs of
fermentation occurred.  The stout turned out fine but I like the fact that,
with a starter, fermentation takes off much more quickly.  Making a starter
would have allowed you to wait until the next day to brew and also not have
such a long lag time after pitching.  Your beer will probably be alright but
you may want to consider a starter in the future.  You'll then get the yeast
to take off more like the dry yeast to which you are accustomed. 
    By the way, I racked the Christmas brew into the secondary last night and 
it smells wonderful!!

- -- 
==============================================================================
 Guy D. McConnell, Systems Engineer |            |"All that is gold does not
 Intergraph Corp.  Mail Stop CR1105 |     My     | glitter, not all those who
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 (205)730-6289   FAX (205)730-6011  |            |                   J.R.R.T.
==============================================================================


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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 91 10:10:22 EDT
From: William R Tschantz <wtschant at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Cat's Meow

Hi,
Could anyone E-mail me the ftp address and other info needed to get access to 
the Cat's Meow via ftp suitable for downloading to a Mac.  If possible make it 
easy as I am a movice at using the net and unix.
Thanks in advance.
Bill
- --

Bill Tschantz          |       Homebrew             Better living through
Chemistry Department   |        or  a        ===>   Chemistry and Microbiology
Ohio State University  |      Good  Beer            (chemicals and bugs)
(614) 292-7451         |                                                       
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 91 07:51:42 PDT
From: Richard.Stueven at Corp.Sun.COM (Richard Stueven)
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #718

If you haven't received HBD #718 (or any other issue), don't despair.
There have been a number of issues gone missing in the past, and they
always appeared in the monthly archive.

Relax, don't worry, and wait for the end of the month.

gak

TOOMUCHPRESSURETOOMUCHPRESSURETOOMUCHPRESSURETOOMUCHPRESSURETOOMUCHPRESSURETOO
Richard Stueven       AHA# 22584        gak at Corp.Sun.COM       ...!attmail!gak
ITMUSTSTOPITMUSTSTOPITMUSTSTOPITMUSTSTOPITMUSTSTOPITMUSTSTOPITMUSTSTOPITMUSTST

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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 91 08:20:11 -0700
From: Will Allen <willa at hpvclwa.vcd.hp.com>
Subject: Brewpubs in Rochester NY

Greetings all:

I'll be in Rochester NY soon on business.  Where should I go for a good 
local brew?  Please e-mail me directly.  I'll forward a summary to
anyone who is interested.

THANKS!


 . . .Will

Will Allen
HP Vancouver Division
willa at vcd.hp.com  or  ...!hplabs!vcd!willa

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Date: 11 Sep 91 11:25:30 EDT
From: RJS153%SYSU at ISS1.AF.MIL
Subject: Addr: Adios (for now)

I'm leaving the Air Force and will no longer have access to the computer
through which I received the Homebrew Digest.  I'll try to get back in once
I settle down in my new job.  I'd like to thank everyone for the advice
they gave when I needed and the good info in the Digest in general.

I learned a lesson in my present batch.  Watch out that leftover hops (from
pellets) does not plug your blowoff hose!  Kinda makes a mess on the floor,
the walls, and the ceiling......

Adios,

- --Randy--


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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 91 08:52:05 PDT
From: keng at ic.MENTORG.COM (Ken Giles)
Subject: Re: liquid yeast cultures

Regarding making yeast starter cultures:

Wyeast yeast is manufactured in my area, so I never have a packet more than a 
month old. I break the inner seal 12 hours before preparing the starter. This 
equates to 36 hours before I expect the brewing to be finished, because I let 
the starter do its thing for 24 hours before pitching.

When preparing to pitch in 5 gallons, I boil 3 cups of water with 3/4 cups of 
dry malt extract. I boil for 20-30 minutes. I then pour this into a 750 ml 
champagne bottle which I then cool in a sink full of cold water (sometimes 
using ice to hasten the process). The champagne bottle was previously sanitized 
and pre-heated with hot tap water. When the temp of the starter wort reaches 
70F, I pitch the Wyeast packet and put on an airlock. Actually, I keep the 
airlock on while it's cooling, too. I have an airlock stopper that fits the 
champagne bottle.

When preparing to pitch in 10 gallons, I use a 1 gallon apple juice jug instead 
of the champagne bottle. I boil 1/2 gallon (plus 1 cup for evaporation) of water 
with 2 cups of DME, using the same procedures as above. My carboy stopper fits 
nicely into the 1 gallon jug.

Sometimes I add hops in arbitrary amounts if the mood strikes me.

kg.

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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 91 10:45:33 EDT
From: richer at ionic.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Al Richer)
Subject: Bottling technique


 On the advice of Carl West, I've decided to send out a short missive on
my bottling technique. May this help you avoid too much trouble with a 
non-drinking spouse, as it has with me.

 This technique involves the use of the family dishwasher as a bottling
table, thereby avoiding spills and drips all over the kitchen. It also
allows you to go directly into dishwasher-sterilized bottles without having
to unload them, avoiding  potential source of contamination.

 
First, the bottles. I load the dishwasher with the quantity of containers I'm
going to need for a run (usually two cases. I also add the proper number of 
caps in a mesh bag, so that they will also be sterilized. I then run the dish-
washer without soap and with heat dry on, producing sterile glass as an end 
product.

While all of this is happening, I am racking my beer into my primary and priming
it. The primary is then carries from the cellar into the kitchen and placed
directly above the dishwasher, with the capper on the counter next to the
sink. On the other side of the sink is a clear counter area,reserved for the 
bottled brew, covered with an old towel whose purpose will become evident.

After the bottles are done the dishwasher cycle, I open the dishwasher door. It
then becomes my bottle holder for racking. With the siphon ready to go, I line
up 12 bottles on the dishwasher door. I then run down the row, filling each
bottle with the racking tube. The dishwasher door catches all of the runoff, avoiding
unnecessary later cleanup. The bottles are then capped, passed through a stream
of water to rinse of overspill, and arranged on the old towel to dry off. In
this method, cleanup becomes a breeze, as all I have to do is close the dish-
washer door and turn it on!

 In this way, I can usually get 2 cases of beer racked, primed and capped in a 
total time of ~ 1.5 hours, counting the cleanup before and after. 

						Thought you'd be interested,

							ajr

N.B.: To our moderator: Keep up the great work!! Thanks!!


_________________________________________________________
 Alan J. Richer              Mail:  richer at hq.ileaf.com
 Interleaf, Inc.             All std. disclaimers apply 			
 9 Hillside Ave.                  Your mileage may vary 
 Waltham,MA. 02154
" It's a nitwit idea. Nitwit ideas are for emergencies.
The rest of the time you go by the Book, which is a 
collection of nitwit ideas that worked at least once."
     from "The Mote in God's Eye" , Niven and Pournelle
_________________________________________________________



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Date: 11 Sep 91 09:29:00 PDT
From: "MR. DAVID HABERMAN" <habermand at afal-edwards.af.mil>
Subject: Honey Ales

I have finally caught up on all the digests that I received while on vacation
for 3 weeks in Germany, Belgium, and Denmark.  There was some discussion and
requests for honey ale recipes.  Here are 2 that I have brewed that came out
very well.

                                  HONEY ALE

for 5 US.gallons
4 lbs. Buckwheat honey
4 oz.  Styrian Goldings hops
7 grams Red Star Ale yeast
1 tsp. acid blend
1 tsp. yeast nutrient
1 cup corn sugar

SG: 1.031
FG: 0.997

Boil honey and 3 gal. water with 3 oz. hops for 47 min., add 1 oz. last 7 min.  
Before adding hops, skim off the skum that rises to the top.  Cool and pour
into fermenter and top to 5 gallons.  Add acid blend, nutrients and
re-hydrated yeast.  When fermentation completes, mix with 1 cup sugar, a
little yeast and bottle.

This was the very first beer I ever made and 7 years ago most people I knew
didn't worry about the bittering units of the hops.  I would guess that they
were around 3% AAU's.  Red star was the main yeast used at the time.  Yeast
nutrient is necessary since the honey does not have the required food for the
beasties.  I used buckwheat honey because I like the flavor.  Do not drink
this beer until at least 1 month after bottling.  Since it is made from honey
the ale improves with age.  A bottle that I saved for 4 and a half years tasted
so good that I wish I had saved more!  I plan on trying to reproduce this beer
again.  The beer had a very nice honey aroma and flavor.  The hops were enough
to balance the sweetness.  I don't think that I would change anything except
try to make more and keep it a while before drinking.


                     ROCKET J. SQUIRREL HONEY WHEAT ALE

for 5 US.gallons
3 lbs. Bavarian dry wheat extract
2 lbs. Clover honey
1/2 lb. Buckwheat honey
1/2 lb. light Crystal malt (20 lovibond?)
1 oz. Centennial hops 11.1% AAU's
24 oz. Wyeast 1056 slurry from a batch 3 months previous and stored in 'fridge

SG: 1.050
FG: 1.005

Bring 1 and a half qts. water to 170 deg. F and turn off heat.  Add crystal
malt and steep for 40 min.  Tempurature was 155 deg. after adding malt and
stirring.  In another pot, start 3 gallons water boiling.  When it cames to a
boil, strain in liquid from crystal malt and also pour another quart of hot
water through the grains.  Add the wheat extract and honey.  Skim the skum off
and then add 3/4 oz. hops for 1 hour.  Turn off heat and add the last 1/4 oz.
hops.  Whirlpool and let stand to let the trub collect.  Siphon into carbouy
and top to 5 gallons.  Add yeast and shake vigorously.  Used the "wet t-shirt"
method to keep it cool during the Southern California summer.  Bottle with 4
oz. corn sugar.  Has a very nice floral honey/clove aroma.  Nice clear golden
color.  My beers have been much clearer since using the whirlpool technique to
get rid of most of the trub before fermenting.  Has a clove/wheat beer flavor
not much honey flavor, I didn't want to use too much buckwheat honey in order
to let the wheat flavor come through.  I haven't had this very long, so I
don't know what it will do with age.

I was on the way to a Maltose Falcons meeting with some friends and we were
trying to decide on the next beer to make.  I saw the Rocky Raccoon Honey
Lager recipe and thought it looked interesting.  It called for Cascade hops,
but I knew I had Centennials at home which are high alpha cascades (called
CFJ90 last year).  I don't have any lagering facility yet, but I did have some
ale yeast.  The resipe also calls for malt extract and as I was walking around
the store, I saw a new product, the dry Bavarian Wheat extract.  I used that
instead.  I also put in a half pound buckwheat honey instead of all clover. 
Since only the proportions resembled the original recipe, I decided to keep
the Rocky part and change the rest of the name.  Rocket J. Squirrel is the
full name of the squirrel in the Rocky and Bullwinkle cartoon.

 -
David A. Haberman
Email: habermand at afal-edwards.af.mil
Benny's Bait Shop and Sushi Bar - "Today's Bait is Tomorrow's Plate!"


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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 91 16:21 GMT
From: "KATMAN.WNETS385" <6790753%356_WEST_58TH_5TH_FL%NEW_YORK_NY%WNET_6790753 at mcimail.com>
Subject: zip city:cloves?



     Date: 11-Sep-91      Time: 12:21 PM       Msg: EXT01900

Hi there,
I just called the Zip City brew pub (3 W. 18th St. Manhattan 212-366-6333) and
they said that it looked like they'd be opening sometime in the first few weeks
of October. They are sending out a mailing in a week or so, you can call and
get onto their mailing list.

About this clove taste... Over the weekend I had Anchor's wheat beer. I liked
it a lot, but I'm not sure if it was all that clovey. It tasted less of cloves
(or what Joe Germani called a clove taste) than my brown ale did. Now I hadn't
noticed this flavor (aftertaste?) in my beer as a clove taste. Until Joe
brought it to my attention as something I might want to try to get rid of, I
thought my beer tasted fine :( (pout) Can someone suggest a beer that tends to
taste strongly of cloves so I can experience this for real? Or is the Anchor
wheat strongly cloved (cleaved?) and I just have a high clove tolerance?

Lee Katman == Thirteen/WNET == New York, NY

=Do not= use REPLY or ANSWERBACK, I can not receive mail in that fashion.
Please send all mail to
INTERNET katman.wnets385%wnet_6790753 at mcimail.com
OR
MCIMAIL EMS: wnet 6790753  MBX: katman.wnets385



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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 91 09:55:10 pdt
From: Ted Manahan <tedm at hpcvcbp.cv.hp.com>
Subject: Yeast starters
Full-Name: Ted Manahan


This note is to thank the participants of this digest for helping me
improve my brews immensely. Following advice given in the digest, I have
changed my procedure for pitching yeast. I now have very strong
fermentations with short lag times, using liquid yeast cultures. Here's
how I do it:

I now always use a starter of about 3/4 quart. I give the starter a good
shake to aerate it before adding the liquid yeast. Before pitching, I
also aerate the wort by stirring vigorously with a spoon.  These two
changes alone have decreased the lag time to about six hours or less.

I purchased a "yeast bank" from William's brewing. This allows you to
freeze yeast cultures for up to a year. I get six or seven batches from
a single package of liquid yeast. To restore these cultures, you have to
do a two or three step process, using only about two tablespoons of weak
wort at first, then about 1/3 cup, then about 3/4 quart. Each of these
steps will take a day.

There will be a beer judge certification exam on September 21st in
Grants Pass, Oregon. Is anybody else reading this digest going to be
there? 

Ted Manahan
tedm at hp-pcd.cv.hp.com

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Date: Tue, 10 Sep 91 7:53:46 EDT
From: gozer!klm at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Chico Ale Yeast?????

First a question:
=================

Is Wyeast #1056 "American" the same as the "Chico Ale Yeast" that I've
heard everyone talking about?

Is the "Chico Ale Yeast" really the same stuff that Sierra Nevada
uses?

Now some comments:
==================

I used the Wyeast #1056 in my most recent batch (an IPA.)  THIS WAS MY
FIRST EXPERIENCE WITH A LIQUID YEAST.  Boy was that stuff slow to
start!  The date on the package indicated that it was slightly less
than a month old, yet it still took two days for the package to puff
up.  It took another day and a half for the one quart
starter-in-a-wine-bottle to reach full krausen.  It took about 10
hours in the fermenter before there were really visible signs of
fermentation.

The fermentation was even somewhat different than I am accustomed to.
The krausen never got really tall, but what was there was pretty
dense.  Fermentation proceeded at a moderate and steady pace of about
80 bubbles per minute for about 3 days.  Aside from the spiciness of
the Cascade hops, there was very little else in the way of "aroma"
emanating from my airlock.  I particularly did not notice a lot of the
diacetyl or ester aromas that usually come out with an ale yeast.

The keg is soaking as I type this.  I will keg the beer this morning
and BFDers who are curious can try it at the October meeting (if there
is any left.)

Thanks to Mike Sharp for the enormous bag of Cascade hops that he sold
to me for dirt cheap.  I'm glad you got tired of Cascade, Mike, cause
I love 'em.  If you've got any more, I'll take 'em cause I've almost
used that whole bag already.

- -- 
Kevin


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Date:    Wed, 11 Sep 1991 9:51:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: starter, O2

To Norm who is starting to use liquid yeast:  Learn how to make a yeast
starter.  Liquid yeast is well worth the effort, but the unpredictability
of the swelling of the package, and the low yeast count even after it has
swelled, makes the use of starters almost required.  They're easy. Relax.
Check the HBD archives for howto.

Ken sez:  O2 introduced after ferment can increase diacetyl.  News to me.
May not be a bad thing (I like Sam Adams a lot too).  Seems weird though,
since you can duplicate the diacetyl buttery flavor of Sam Smith by pitching
into O2 *deficient* wort.  I do remember reading an article about some
research where adding O2 to the wort 12-18 hours after pitching helps out
the yeast, but they made no mention of diacetyl.  Someone also pointed out 
that I actually added O2 deficient water (boiled/cooled), so I might not have 
added all the much O2 to the wort, even with the splashing.  Fortunately,
the yeast is neutral (Wyeast Chico ~ Sierra Nevada), so any diacetyl should
be noticeable.  Just have to wait and see.

Russ

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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 91 11:35:48 PDT
From: ek at chem.UCSD.EDU (Ed Kesicki)
Subject: Corn vs. Cane


Does anyone have first hand knowledge of what happens to the taste of beer
that has been primed with cane sugar instead of corn sugar?  I'm afraid
my partner and I might have done this (the oldest mistake in the book--
storing things in unmarked containers).  The resulting beers have an
unpleasant bitter aftertaste.  I read somewhere that fermenting cane sugar
gives a "cidery" taste, but I don't really know what that means.  Any
feedback would be appreciated.

Another question--a survey question:  I would like to see some postings
by people who have experience using liquid and dry yeast on similar beers
under similar conditions.  How do the tastes compare?  How much of a
difference was there?  Our beers done with liquid yeasts had less 
off-flavors (harsh bitterness) than those done with dry yeast.  However,
they were different types of beers, so it's hard to compare, and there is
the added variable of the cane sugar that we might or might not have 
used.  Specifically, the dry yeast we used was English dry yeast from
William's Brewing (used on 3 IPA's: one all-extract and 2 partial mashes
as per Dave Miller);  the liquid yeasts were included in the kits we
bought from William's (dry stout and wheat beer).  All were done in
coastal San Diego, temp's in the 70's, but may have gotten above 80 many
times.  One of the IPA's, in particular, was very strange:  after racking
from primary (at 3 days, after most activity had stopped), the beer
started to clear up and not much fermentation was evident.  After one 
week, the fermentation kicked in again, producing one glug every 30 sec
in the airlock, and continued 2 weeks like this.  We finally bottled it
but the beer is raunchy--harsh clinging bitter aftertaste--almost
completely undrinkable (except maybe at the end of a party).  Anyway,
the other IPA's were better behaved, but still have that slight 
harsh off-flavor, not what we would expect just from the hops.  Different
hops were used to bitter each batch, but that off-flavor is still there.
We'd like to blame the dry yeast, but I'm not sure if that's fair.
Anyone?

Ed Kesicki

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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1991 17:23:52 +0000
From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas at loughborough.ac.uk>
Subject: Nomenclature

>As promised when I first notified HD readers about the upcoming Canadian
>Amateur Brewers Association (CABA) "All About Ales Contest", here are the
>recently released details of what, where, when and how to enter.
>
>3. Beer must be classified as one of the classes listed (see CLASS
>   DESCRIPTIONS below).
>4. Beer must be bottled in brown or green 284-355 ml glass beer bottles clean
>   and free from any identifying marks.
>
>Class 3: English Bitter
> - gold to copper coloured. Low carbonation. Medium bitterness. May or may not
>  have hop flavour and/or aroma. Low to medium maltiness. Light to medium body.
>  Original gravity less than 1.050.

Hate to stir the pot :-), but a traditionalist might wish to argue that if
it comes in a bottle, it ain't Bitter and is probably more like Pale Ale! I
am fully aware of all the British recipe books which suggest otherwise, and
of the possibility of buying so-called 'bitters' in bottled form here. But,
IMHO, they are all abusing the term ... To the person who was eagerly
looking forward to his friend bringing back some 'genuine' English beer -
hope he can fit a mini-cask in his luggage!




Conn V Copas                                   tel : (0509)263171  ext 4164
Loughborough University of Technology          fax : (0509)610815
Computer-Human Interaction Research Centre            
Leicestershire  LE11 3TU                    e-mail -    
G Britain                         (Janet):C.V.Copas at uk.ac.lut  
                     (Internet):C.V.Copas%lut.ac.uk at nsfnet-relay.ac.uk







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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 91 13:26:47 -0600
From: David Suda <suda at barley.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: Cat's Meow translator

Here's a short C program for translating the Cat's Meow into a form
that can be printed on a postscript printer from unix. Compile the
program (for example:  cc -o trans trans.c) and then translate each
chapter:

   trans < recipes_pt1.ps > new_recipes_pt1.ps


Source code:

#include <stdio.h>

main()
   {
   unsigned char c,tst;

   tst='\200';
   c=getchar();
   while (c!=EOF)
      {
      if (c>=tst)
         {
         putchar('\134');
         printf("%o",c);
         }
      else putchar(c);
      c=getchar();
      }
   }

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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 91 12:48:47 PDT
From: donthave at cowman.Eng.Sun.COM (Laura Lawson - UE/WST Operations)
Subject: Address change


Please repond if this is the correct location 
for an address change.

Laura

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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 91 13:46:41 PDT
From: chad at mpl.UCSD.EDU (Chad Epifanio)
Subject: Mead, Dry-Hop, Wort Chiller

Hola senors:

I thank the fellow who slapped me around and told me to chill about
my mead.  Just as he predicted, it became violently active within
4-6 days.  My problem was that I use a plastic primary, and the only
way to judge fermentation is by a bubbling airlock.  The odor 
definitly has sulfur overtones, which I regard as good, since that
means the fermentation is scrubbing the mead clean of the 
metabisulfite used for sterilization(I hope!).  

In times past, I regarded dry-hopping as dangerous and nonproductive.
I always just let the finishing hops steep in the pot for awhile.
A month ago, I noticed several discussions on the merits of dry-
hopping, and, well, curiosity got the best of me.  I made a batch
of India Pale Ale; or a close facsimile 8>)  After racking to the
secondary, I threw in an ounce of Mt.Hood pellets and 8oz of oak
chips.  This I let sit for a week, and bottled.  I chose Mt.Hood
because it is described as spicy and flavorful.  I poped open a two-
week old bottle yesterday to test the carbonation.  Holy hops,
Batman!  The smell was like a flowering wild bush, and the taste
I reckon was similar to sucking on a handful of hop cones.  I'm not
sure that I liked it.  Aging will probably improve it dramatically,
but if I ever dry hop again, I'm damn sure not going to put in a 
full ounce.  Just one man's opinion.

I disagree with some of whats been said about immersion wort
chilers.  I presently have 30' of tubing, and granted, that just 
won't so the job in under 30 min.  However, simply increasing the
total length of the wort chiller may Not increase your efficiency
appreciably.  My reason is thus:

The wort chiller is a heat exchanger, transferring the heat of the
wort to the running cold water in the chiller(basically).  The 
temperature gradient is what causes the heat to transfer.  Basic.
Now, by increasing the length of the tube, you increase the total
surface area.  However, the effective surface area of transfer will
remain the same after a certain length.  Say the tap water temp is
50F.  At the start of the chiller, the temp diff will be from wort
temp(say 200F) to chiller temp(50F).  The water picks up heat, and
say 15' into the pipe the water temp is 125F.  The temp gradient is
getting smaller.  Say 30' into the pipe the water has heated to 200F.
The temp gradient is zero past this point.  No more heat can be 
removed.  By only increasing the chiller length, the efficiency is
not increased.  Hold those flame guns, boys.  This is just an 
illustration and not an equation.  The transfer rate is also effected
by the water volume flow and the temperture of the water.

Obvious solutions to the problem are to increase the water flow or
make the water colder.  For most occasions, these options are either
a pain or impossible.  I propose that making the effective surface
area of transfer larger will speed up the process considerably.  
Instead of one coil of tube, make two.  Have a T-joint at the start 
of the chiller.  Make one section into an inside coil, and the other
side into an outside coil.  Connect them at the ends with another
T-joint, and you're in business.  In fact, this is exactly the 
strategy employed by an ingenous inventer in the Gadgets special
issue of Zymurgy(Can't remember his name).  I am in the process of 
constructing one of these, and after the first trial, I'll report
on the effectiveness.


Chad Epifanio--> chad at mpl.ucsd.edu  |  "There are no bad brews.
Scripps Institution of Oceanography |   However, some are better
Marine Physics Laboratory           |   than others."
================================================================
"All words and ideas are my own, etc., etc..."



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Date: 11 Sep 91 16:46:08 EDT
From: Jeff Frane <70670.2067 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Nitrosamines in Beer

I've been eavesdropping on your Homebrew Digest from the Compuserve network; are
you all on Unix networks?
	Anyway, to the point: Nitrosamines in beer. I remembered this vaguely from a
tour of Great Western Malting in Vancouver, Washington years ago. I just spoke
with one of their lab people, John Cutie (sp?) who explained the following.
There is a natural precursor, dimethylamine (sp?) in *germinating* barley. It is
easily nitrosated in Nitrosadimethylmine, which is carcinogenic particularly in
the presence of oxides or nitrogen. If the malt comes in direct contact with
these combustion biproducts, nitrosadimethyline will result. Great Western no
longer has any direct gas-fired malting kilns; theirs are either indirect hot
water or air to air. There *are* malting houses which use direct-fired kilns and
they subjsequently purge the malt with SO2.
	If this is at all garbled, or the terminology is imprecise, please put the
blame on me where it belongs, not on John. I'm pretty sure this is where the
question of nitrosamines in beer originated, and it seems pretty clear that
there should be none in commercial beers *or* in homebrew. CAVEAT: there are
some homebrewers making their own malt, and they would do well to pay attention
to this problems. I'm not sure what they use for heat, but a gas oven sounds
like a BAD idea.


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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 91 15:16:32 -0600
From: Norm Pyle <pyle at intellistor.com>
Subject: Hot Break


Since this question seems to have been lost in the mysterious missing HBD's,
I'll try again:

  What is this business called "hot break"?  I assume from my reading that it
has to do with quickly chilling the wort in order to pull trub out of solution.
If this is true, I also assume one would then rack the wort off of this trub
before fermentation.  Am I in the ballpark?  Is it worthwhile (taste-wise) to
risk contaminating your (my) wort for this?  After all, it is a cooled vat of
microorganism food just waiting to be eaten...

I may be in left field for all I know.  Anyone like to set me straight?
Thanks.

Norm

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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 91 17:04:42 EDT
From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West)
Subject: Loose hops, Wort chiller

Loose hops:

Last night I used loose hops for the first time. I think I'm interested 
in a hop sock. Any reason I can't use a portion of a pair of panty hose? 

Also, there were a whole bunch of what looked like seeds floating around 
in there, I was under the impression that hops aren't generally allowed 
to go to seed. I never noticed any seed-like objects while using hops plugs. 
I saved a few of them to see if they'll sprout. I don't know what I'll get 
but I'll know that their mother was a Fuggles.


Wort chiller:

Last night was also the first use of my new immersion wort chiller. 
It consists of:

a 5' long 3/8"id utility sink hose hooked to the faucet and clamped onto

25' of 3/8"copper refrigeration coil with

5' of 5/16" vinyl tubing stuck on the other end and leading back to the sink

It took 2 1/2gal (yeah, extract) from a slow boil to 80F in about 20 min.
Seemed quick enough to me.

The problem with the vinyl tubing was, when it got hot, it got really soft, 
and when it got really soft it fell over and kinked, and when that happened, 
it blew right off the copper tubing which then shot hot water all over the ceiling. 
Now the vinyl is twist-tied to the input hose so it won't kink.

I'm learnin'. When I stop, bury me.

Carl


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Date: 	Wed, 11 Sep 1991 18:59:00 -0400
From: MIKE LIGAS <LIGAS at SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA>
Subject: Decompressing mthvax.miami.edu Archive Files

Just downloaded the index for Papazian's "The Complete Joy of Homebrewing"
(joyindex.Z) from the homebrew directory in the mthvax.miami.edu archives.
Problem is it wouldn't decompress using a standard decompresing program. The
index said I needed the 'compress.shar' program available in ~ftp/pub so I
downloaded it to my hard drive. How does one get this program to run??!! :-{
Any HDers out there who can help me? Do I need to run it from my E-mail account
or can I decompress files from the homebrew archives on my hard drive?

Eagerley anticipating expert advice,
Mike
ligas at sscvax.cis.mcmaster.ca

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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 91 16:03:29 PDT
From: Darryl Okahata <darrylo at hpnmxx.sr.hp.com>
Subject: Re: liquid yeast cultures

> From: Norm Pyle <pyle at intellistor.com>
> 
> My latest brew - a English bitter recipe - was my first try with a liquid yeast
> culture.
     [ ... ]
> I ruptured the packet in the morning, figuring on brewing the following evening.
> I just left it out on the counter since the air temperature was around 70 F.
> Well, within 8 - 10 hours the package was swelling to alarming proportions and

     So far, I've brewed using only liquid yeast (Wyeast), and I've
noticed the following: if the date on the package is less than ~2 weeks
old, the packet will usually swell to "alarming proportions" within 12
hours.  If the date is a month or so old, the package will take from
18-24 hours on up to reach that stage.  All this assumes that I haven't
thrown the unruptured package in my ~40 deg.F refrigerator for awhile
(note that the package was kept refrigerated at my local supply shop,
but warmed up while I took it home).  If I have thrown the package in my
refrigerator, the packet can take 48 hours or more to reach that stage.

     I'm not sure what is going on.  I have heard that yeast do not like
going from a high temp to a low temp (they weaken or die?).  If this is
true, it does help to explain what I am seeing.

> Since I was ill-prepared to brew that evening, I had not pre-boiled and cooled
> my water.  So I ended up with hot wort and hot water in my fermenter, with no
> hope of cooling it that night (I don't have a chiller and it was 11 pm).  I
> threw the yeast package in the fridge to prevent further swelling until I
> could pitch in the morning.

     You might want to consider making a yeast starter.  Advantages:

* Once the package has swelled, you just use it to make a starter, which
  is very easy.  You don't have to put the package in the refrigerator
  and risk killing or weakening any yeast.

* When pitching, you have a larger yeast population, which will decrease
  the lag time and make it more difficult for other beasties to
  contaminate your wort.  For me, this is a *BIG* plus.  I use liquid
  yeast to reduce the chances of contamination, and so I want to avoid
  long lag times.


     Disadvantages:

* You need a little extra equipment (a jug, perhaps an extra airlock,
  etc.).
* It's a little extra work.


     Some people don't use yeast starters, and they are quite happy with
the results.  Other people, who are perhaps used to dry yeast, do not
like long lag times, and so they use yeast starters.  You'll have to
decide if using a yeast starter is right for you.


     Making a yeast starter is easy.  Just boil and cool:

* A quart or so of water (I try to use about 600 ml, which is about
  2/3rds of a quart).
* 6-8 heaping tablespoons of DME.
* A pinch of yeast nutrient.

Pour this into a sanitized jug (don't forget to aerate the "wort"), add
the liquid yeast (after letting the package swell very large), and fit
an airlock to the jug.  After a couple of days, just pitch into your
primary fermenter.

     I use a 1-liter Erlenmeyer flask to make my yeast starter.  I just
dump everything (but the yeast) into the flask, boil for several minutes
(I just place the flask directly on my gas stove), cool, add the yeast,
and stick a sanitized rubber stopper with an airlock on top.  This is
very easy, as I don't have to sanitize a jug, or worry about how to pour
the wort into the jug.

     -- Darryl Okahata
	Internet: darrylo at sr.hp.com

DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not
constitute the support, opinion or policy of Hewlett-Packard or of the
little green men that have been following him all day.

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1991 14:06 EDT
From: Dave Rose <CHOLM at HUBIO2.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject: Trouble-shooting.

I am a new subscriber to the digest and thought I would start off by asking
three questions that have bothered me for some time.  I am an all-grain brewer 
and am generally satisfied with the results, but I have some chronic trouble.
First: Many of my beers have a subtle but noticable off taste which I would 
describe as "plastic-y." This plastic taste is not evident when tasting the
beer but rather (if you'll excuse me) when burping after drinking it.  Some-
times I can detect a hint of this taste/smell if I smell the CO2 coming out of
the airlock during fermentation. Does this sound familiar?
	Second: I have a pretty constant problem with hazes.  Sometimes these
are chill hazes and I figure that is because I do a one-step infusion mash so 
there is sometimes residual protein, although I am using only pale ale malt. 
But other times the haze is even at room temp.  Any hints?
	Finally, my head retention is usually ok but doesn't compare to that of 
good commercial brews.  I am careful about cleanliness so I don't think it is 
grease or detergent related.  Short of using artificial heading agents, does 
anyone have any ideas?  These questions paint a pretty dismal picture of my 
brewing, but actually these problems are rather minor.  But I won't be truly
happy until I can solve them.  Any input is appreciated.  thanks. d.

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Date: Tue Sep 10 22:19:41 1991
From: semantic!bob at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: New England Beer Club

                       PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT

I would like to publicly announce the creation of a new electronic
mailing list.  This new list was created for the promotion of beer
related activities in the North East.  This is not a competitive
list to the _Home_Brew_Digest_ and is not for discussions of 
homebrewing issues.

The charter of this list is to promote homebrew clubs, homebrew
competitions, tasting, picnics, pub crawls, brewpubs, breweries,
homebrew suppliers and any other organization, news or activity
related to beer in the New England area.

So it is with great pleasure that I announce:

                    THE NEW ENGLAND BEER CLUB

This list is an un-moderated public forum and may be joined by
anyone.  It is expected to be a low volume mailing list.  If the
number of mailings per day gets large then it will be digested.

To subscribe: beer-request@ rsi.com -or- uunet!semantic!beer-request
To post:              beer at rsi.com -or- uunet!semantic!beer

On subscription please include your Full Name and Email Address
in the message text.

Brought to you by:
                      The Wort Processors
                  Boston's Oldest Brewing Club
Cheers,

 -- Bob Gorman          bob at rsi.com          uunet!semantic!bob --


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Date: Mon, 09 Sep 91 08:07:25 CDT
From: Fritz Keinert <keinert at iastate.edu>
Subject: Re: translate German label

In HD 719, "Ihor W. Slabicky" <iws at sgfb.ssd.ray.com> writes

>> I am wondering whether someone can translate some of this
>> German language text that I found on two German beer labels:
>>	Kulmbacher
from the town of Kulmbach. I think that's in northern Bavaria, between
Nu"rnberg and Hof, but I am not sure. It is quite famous in Germany
for its beer.

>>	Kapuziner Schwarze
Kapuziner is a type of monk, probably the type they have at the
monastery that started the brewery. Kapuze = hood (on clothing).
Schwarze is a form of schwarz = black, but I can't figure out how the
ending fits in here. It is either a feminine or plural ending, but I
see no feminine words or plurals here.

>>	Dunkles, Hefetrubes Weizenbier
Dark wheat beer, murky from yeast.  (Murky doesn't sound very good,
but I can't think of a better word right now). 

>>	Gebraut nach dem deutschen Reinheitsgebot
brewed according to the German Purity Law

>>	e 0,5 l
standardized half liter bottle.

>>	Hersteller:  Monchshofbrau Kulmbach
Producer: Mo"nchshofbra"u in the town of Kulmbach.  Don't forget the
umlauts; they are important in German. Same for tru"b, above. Anyway,
Mo"nch = monk
Hof    = court or estate
Bra"u  = brew

>>	Mindestens haltbar bis 22.11.89
can be preserved until at least November 22, 1989.

>>	Kulmbacher
>>	Kapuziner Weizen
>>	Kristallklares Weizenbier
Kapuziner Wheat from Kulmbach; crystal-clear wheat beer

>> I assume that here so many overprints because the beer was imported.
>> The 'e' by the 0,5 l proabably means it is an 'export' bottle of
>> 0.5 liters (which it is).
Nope. e = Einheitsflasche = standardized bottle (I think, anyway; you
find that on a lot of glasses, too.)

>> The dates are either when the beer was
>> bottled, or when it should be drunk by - but which? 
When it should be drunk. See above.

>> I bought both of these in the Spring of 1991, and drank them 
>> this week. 
Obviously, this beer doesn't sell too fast at that store.
- --------
Fritz Keinert                             phone:  (515) 294-5128
Department of Mathematics                 fax:    (515) 294-5454
Iowa State University                     e-mail: keinert at iastate.edu
Ames, IA 50011




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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 91 10:46 CDT
From: ihlpl!korz at att.att.com
Subject: Re: Beer categories

jeanne writes:
>overwhelming urge to try new, "real" beers.  so last night i had a sierra
>nevada big foot ale.  and let me tell you, michelob is like water compared
>to it.  

>face with the taste.  my question is, to you connoisseurs, how would this beer 
>be described?  is it considered hoppy, fruity, or what?

SN Big Foot Ale is a Barleywine, which means it is brewed to be very high
in alcohol.  Personally, I dislike an "alcohol-taste" in my beer, which
distracted me from all the other flavors in the SNBFA, so I'm afraid I
cannot provide more commentary on it.  I suggest you try SN Pale Ale (one
of my favorite beers) for what *I* would consider a more "conventional"
tasting beer.  SNPA is flavorful and has a wonderful hop nose.  

Al.
korz at ihlpl.att.com

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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 91 11:03 CDT
From: ihlpl!korz at att.att.com
Subject: Re: Cooling

Jah writes:
>I used to use an AC in a small room. This was much too inefficient though.
>Now I have a spare fridge with a Hunter Air Stat Energy Monitor (+- 2 degree
>control :-). You can get the Air Stat for $20-25 and it will work much better
>than a timer could to keep an accurate temperature. Oh yeah you gotta punch a
>hole in the side of the fridge, cut the temp probe wire, run it through the
>hole, and wire it back together, but that's pretty minor...

I recommend against punching any holes in the walls of refridgerators.
I was going to do this to mount my four faucets, but was talked out of
it by my dad.  He pointed out that, between the inner and outer walls
of your fridge is a layer of insulation (usually fiberglass).  Since the
inner wall is cold, it would attract moisture which would condense on it
and soak into the insulation.  Wet insulation (besides being a home for
mold) simply does not insulate.  If the temp probe does not reach around to
the door of the fridge with the Hunter Airstat plugged into the wall,
I recommend that you mount the Airstat on the side of the fridge with
double stick tape, run the temp probe in through the fridge door (mine
is on the hinge-side so it doesn't get in the way) and use an extension
cord to bring power to the Airstat.

Al.

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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1991 21:22 EDT
From: Dave Rose <CHOLM at HUBIO2.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject: Klages malt

   What is the deal with Klages malt? Is it more like Pale Ale malt or Lager
malt or is it another thing entirely? I have always used pale ale malt in 
my all-grain beers.  Some things I've read in the homebrew archives suggest
that Klages has a higher enzyme content and might thus be easier to deal with.
But does that mean that I need to do a step mash?  What sort of beers can 
be brewed with this stuff? I have a number of books including Papazian and 
Miller (two of the latter, in fact) and I don't remember reading any Klages
info there.  Help?    -d.

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Date:  Wed, 11 Sep 91 22:16 EDT
From: DeMello at DOCKMASTER.NCSC.MIL
Subject:  Re: Homebrew Digest #721 (September 11, 1991)

Please update my e-mail address from:

DeMello at Dockmaster.NCSC.Mil

to:

Jeff_DeMello at smtp.ESL.com


Thanks!

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #722, 09/12/91
*************************************
-------

---