---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Wasps on hops (John Stepp)
  Scales (wbt)
  Lightstruck beer (STROUD)
  More hydrometer talk (ingr!b11!mspe5!guy)
  Dry hopping and hop drying... (night)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #728 (September 20, 1991) (Neil A Kirby)
  dry hopping/brewing spiced beers (Tony Babinec)
  Re: scales (RUBICON READY)
  Re:  more uses for the hydrometer (Michael J. Tuciarone)
  cooler pump (Ed Kesicki)
  If you build a better siphon the world will...... (Sean Dyer           )
  male hop plants (Don McDaniel)
  AA Brewers Guild meeting report ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  plastic carboys ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Hydrometer and fixing the current batch. (bryan)
  large batches (HERREN)
  wet hops (HERREN)
  Request for "Cat's Meow" Recipe Book (MIKE LIGAS)
  Malto-dextrin (dbreiden)
  Yet more hops questions (Carl West)
  priming with honey (Aaron Birenboim)
  SNRATIO (Jack Schmidling)
  Ice Chest Mash/Lauter-tuns (Rad Equipment)
  Ice Chest Mash/Lauter-tuns            Time:10:30 AM    Date:9/22/91
  Avoiding a wort-chiller (Paul Dodd)
  Sex and Beer (Norm Hardy)


Send submissions to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues!]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Sep 91 09:20:15 -0400
From: jxs58 at po.CWRU.Edu (John Stepp)
Subject: Wasps on hops


The wasps hanging out around your hops may be pollenating the flowers.  

22 feet!?!?!?!


	Dave Stepp


- --
_______________
Dave Stepp
Case Western Reserve University
Cleveland OH

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 20 Sep 91 9:25:19 EDT
From: cbema!wbt at att.att.com
Subject: Scales

 
Martin Lodahl wrote:

> For hops I use a cheesy plastic WeightWatchers food scale I got for
> a dime at a yard scale.  For water salts, or anything else requiring
> more accurate measurements, I use a shooter's reloading scale.  I
> have no idea what these cost these days;  I've had mine 25+ years. 

A quick glance through Shotgun News shows many suppliers of powder scales.
I would recommend especially:

	Graf & Sons (Missouri) - 314-581-2266
	Midway (Missouri) - 1-800-243-3220  $25 min order
	Natchez Shooters' Supply (Tennessee) - 615-899-0499 (info)
                                               800-251-7839 (orders)

These are all large and reputable mail order houses, and I expect their
prices will be similar on most items.  I've personally done business with
Midway, and friends have dealt with Natchez, with no problems.

In an event, you can get an inexpensive Lee powder measure for about $20
from Graf (the others didn't list prices for this item in their ads; again,
I'd expect them to be similar).  For $35, you can buy a Hornady measure in
either grains or grams.  

> They're compact and very accurate, but are, unfortunately,
> calibrated in grains, so you'll need to pull out the ol' CRC
> Handbook of Chemistry and Physics and look up the conversion
> factors for the units of your choice.

You won't need a CRC... it's surprising what you can find in a good
dictionary.  Webster's New World tells me a grain is 0.0648 grams and
1/7000th of a pound (Avoirdupois), meaning 437.5 grains in an ounce.

And of course, there's nothing wrong with recording "I added 95 grains of
Burton salts" instead of "1 1/2 tsp" or whatever.  You'd want to convert
these weights to grams if you ever give someone the recipe, but for
your own use, use whatever units are convenient.


Tom Hamilton wrote:

>  About 58 million pounds of hops are harvested each year in
> Washington, Oregon and Idaho.

How many HBU's is that for a five-gallon batch?  8-)

 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Bill Thacker	AT&T Network Systems - Columbus      wbt at cbnews.att.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1991 10:16 EST
From: STROUD%GAIA at sdi.polaroid.com
Subject: Lightstruck beer

I recently came across an article entitled "Photochemisty of Beer", published 
in The Spectrum, Vol. 4, Issue 2, Summer 1991.  The author is Denis De 
Keukeleire, State University of Gent, Gent, Belgium.

Much of the article is very technical, with a description of the reaction
mechanisms of various hop constituents with light, heat, singlet oxygen, etc.


However, I thought that the following section from the article would be of
interest to the (home)brewing community and would help clarify some of the
ongoing debate about light/hops/skunkiness.

Enjoy! (any typos are probably mine) - Steve Stroud

THE LIGHTSTRUCK FLAVOR OF BEER

To protect beer against the influence of light, it is stored in green or brown
bottles.  This effect has been known for more than a century (1).  At that time
green glass was readily available, hence the tendency to store beer in
green-colored bottles.  However, green glass transmits part of the visible 
light below 500 nm, while brown glass is almost opaque in the high-energy part
of the visible spectrum (2).  As a result, beer in green-colored bottles is 
exposed to harmful radiation, while brown-colored bottles are safe in this 
respect.  On theother hand, beer in a can is totally protected.

Since many chemical substances are present in beer, it can be advanced that a
number of photochemical reactions are occurring.  It is assumed that most of 
the photochemical events do not affect the odor and taste of beer, except the
photolysis of the iso-alpha-acids [these are the isomerized alpha acids, or
isohumulones].  The resulting off-flavor is called the light-struck flavor.  
The light- sensitive chromophore in the iso-alpha acids is the acyloin 
structure.  Activation of isohumulone with ultraviolet light leads to bond
rupture...........leading to a ketyl-acyl radical pair (3).  Subsequent loss of
carbon monoxide from the acyl radical generates the 3-methyl-2-butenyl radical,
that recombines with a thiol radical delivered by sulfur-containing proteins.
The formation of 3-methyl-2-butene-1-thiol causes an offending light-struck
flavor (4).  The flavor threshold is so low that even sub-ppb concentrations
spoil the beer quality in a very adverse way.

The thiol is formed by direct UV-radiation, but also by visible light or
sunlight.  Since the iso-alpha-acids do not absorb in the visible region, the
reaction is very probably sensitized by riboflavin (Vitamin B2).  Colored
substances, such as polyphenols, may also affect the light-induced 
decomposition of the iso-alpha-acids (5).  Indeed, it is well-known that 
dark-colored beer is more susceptible to the development of the lightstruck 
flavor than light-colored beer (6).

The mechanism for the formation of the lightstruck flavor was confirmed by the
unambiguous identification of 3-methyl-2-butene-1 thiol in illuminated beer (7)
and by the light-stability of the so-called p-iso-alpha acids, or 
p-isohumulones (8).  In these compounds the carbonyl group of the 
light-sensitive acyloin function has been reduced to a secondary alcohol by 
treatment with sodium borohydride.  Consequently, beer that has been bittered 
with p-iso-alpha acids can be stored in colorless bottles [this is what Miller 
does-S.S.].

It should be noticed that a conversion yield of only 0.01% of the
iso-alpha-acids in a concentration of 25 ppm in beer corresponds to the
formation of several ppb of 3-methyl-2-butene-1-thiol, which is sufficient to be
detected by smell and taste.  When beer is poured in a glass, it is bound to be
photolyzed instantaneously.  Therefore, to savor beer in the most favorable
conditions, it should be consumed immediately after it is being served.


References:

1) Lintner, C.: Lehrbuch der Bierbrauerei, Verlag Vieweg, Braunschweig (1875).
2) Luers, H.: Brauwelt 95, p. 582 (1955).  Spath, G.; Niefind, H.J.; Martina,
M.:  Monatsschr. Brauerei 28, p. 73 (1975).
3) Blondeel, G.M.A.; De Keukeleire, D.; Verzele, M.; J. Chem. Soc. Perkin
Trans.I, 2715 (1987).
4) Kuroiwa, Y.; Hashimoto, N.: Proc. Am. Soc. Brewing Chemists 28 (1961) and 181
(1963).
5) Yamanishi, T.; Obata, Y.: Bull. Chem. Soc. Japan 22, p. 247 (1949) and 23, 
p.125 (1959).
6) Brand, J.; Zeitschr. ges. Brauwesen 31, p. 333 (1908).
7) Gunst, F.; Verzele, M.: J. Insti. Brewing 84, p. 291 (1978).
8) Khokher,A.; Anteunis, M.; Verzele, M.: Bull. Soc. Chim. Belges 76, p.101
(1967).  Verzele, M.; Khokher, A.: J. Inst. Brewing 73, p. 255 (1967).

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 20 Sep 91 10:28:48 CDT
From: ingr!ingr!b11!mspe5!guy at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: More hydrometer talk

Martin Lodahl writes:

> Guy McConnell:

>>               ...  I am an
>> extract/adjunct brewer and I think I can see where a hydrometer
>> would be of a great deal more service for all-grain brewers.
>
> I respectfully disagree.  The usefulness of a hydrometer for extract
> brewers is in monitoring the drop in SG during fermentation, so you
> have a fighting chance of determining whether the airlock has
> stopped glupping because it's all done, or because fermentation is
> "stuck".  This is traditionally more of a problem in extract
> batches, and we now know it's due to lower levels of free amino
> nitrogen in extract worts.  Its usefulness as a tool increases as
> you use it, if you keep records.  Extracts have different degrees
> of fermentability, yeast have different degrees of attenuation, and
> both can be affected by temperature and water composition.  It will
> probably take several batches before you can accurately assess your
> wort and beer using the hydrometer, but it's worth the trouble, when
> things don't go according to plan.

    Thanks to Martin and those who replied to me via email.  As I mentioned,
I am going to purchase a hydrometer and begin using it.  I am already quite
a meticulous record keeper and specific gravity readings are a glaring omission
at this point.  I also, horror of horrors, have never used a thermometer in
my brewing.  I intend to buy one of those as well.  I have yet to have a
problem by not using these instruments though.  My rule of thumb for bottling
has been to wait until the beer in the secondary has a still, bubble free
surface and no bubbles are coming through the airlock.  I then wait another
week and bottle.  The reason that I didn't start out using these instruments
is that I started with a minimum of equipment and expense to make sure that I
really wanted to pursue this hobby before plunging in whole hog as I usually do
in anything I undertake.  I am in the brewery upgrade mode now and I'm aquiring
a number of things that I left out in the begining.  I borrowed a friend's
hydrometer to take a finishing gravity reading of my Christmas brew when I
bottle this weekend.

- -- 
==============================================================================
 Guy D. McConnell, Systems Engineer |            |"All that is gold does not
 Intergraph Corp.  Mail Stop CR1105 |     My     | glitter, not all those who
 Huntsville, AL. 35894-0001         |  opinions  | wander are lost, the old
 Computer and Storage Technology    |  are just  | that is strong does not
 Evaluation  Group                  |  exactly   | wither, and deep roots are
 uunet!ingr.com!b11!mspe5!guy       |    that.   | not touched by the frost."
 (205)730-6289   FAX (205)730-6011  |            |                   J.R.R.T.
==============================================================================


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 20 Sep 91 08:32:19 -0700
From: night at tekig7.map.tek.com
Subject: Dry hopping and hop drying...

- --------

In HBD#728 Norm Pyle wrote:

>I have heard a lot
>about dry hopping but don't know how many of you have
>done it.  Do you just throw fresh hops in the brew
>after primary fermentation?  How long do you leave them
>in?  Do you prepare them in any way?  Blah, blah, blah?

I use Byron Burch's method.  I simply break up the hop buds and place them
in the bottom of my secondary before I rack my primary into it. Then, the next 
day, I stir them down with a steril spoon. The second day I do the same. The 
idea is to keep them wet and in the beer.  The third and fourth etc. days I
rotate the secondary 1/4 turn and back to kinda stir the hops without opening
my fermentor.  When my brew is done ... I rack it through a steril nylon mesh
bag (tied onto the end of my syphon hose... and under the beer surface to 
avoid splashing). I then prime it and bottle.

This will keep any hophead happy with aromatics!
 

Bill Thacker wrote:

>When you folks who grow hops dry them, how do you know when they're dry
>enough?

My pamphlet by Dave Mills of Freshops in Oregon states that the hops are dry
when the stem inside the hop bud snaps instead of bending. When you are drying
periodically sacrifice a precious bud by removing the petals and try snapping
the stem...

Ahhhhh... the life.... growing hops in Washington...

Mark Nightingale

night at tekig7.MAP.TEK.COM
 

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 20 Sep 91 11:26:15 EDT
From: nak at archie.att.com (Neil A Kirby)
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #728 (September 20, 1991)


>Date: 	Thu, 19 Sep 1991 15:11:00 -0400
>From: MIKE LIGAS <LIGAS at SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA>
>Subject: Brewing As Alchemy
>
>It seems that a single letter on the importance of a hydrometer has stimulated
>a series of replies and counter-replies in the past few issues and these have
>evolved into discussions of "Brewing as a Science" versus "Brewing as an Art".
>Well, I can resist no longer. I submit that the "versus" concept be dropped.

In a similar note...
I consider computer programming and painting both to be art (brewing I'm
sure fits here too).  To be a successful artist involves two parts.  The
first is discipline.  If you can not control your media sufficiently, then
you can not get the results you want.  In the case of programming, the
amount of discipline required to get *anything* useful is rather high.  In
brewing, there is more lattitude.  The second part is creativity
(inspiration, what have you).  

Without sufficient discipline, no amount of creativity will get usable
results.

Without creativity, you can not improve on what exists.

Many of the postings here really boil down to: How much discipline
(control) do you have over what you are doing?  The rest is recipies and
techniques and their myriad variations.  

Neil Kirby

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 20 Sep 91 12:25:46 EDT
From: CARONS at TBOSCH.dnet.ge.com

'Morning, folks

  I'm interested in some efficent methods for crushing grain. In the past 
I have used:

   1) One of those hand-held chopping jars with the spring loaded chopping
	blade (you know, like the one you give your mom for mother's day when 
	you were about 10). Due to the small size and large amount of work, 
	definitely NOT recommended for more than, say, 1/4 lb. of grain.

   2) A blender with a pulse feature.

Neither of these methods are any good. They tend to be very uneven - some
grains are pulverized to dust while others are untouched. My local supply
shop sells something called a "Corona Mill". Is this the solution? Or are
there other, better methods?

                                   Your H'mble 'nd Ob'dnt Sr'vnt
                                           Sean J. Caron

  "Aves et alas in hic congrigatur"
                     (all the Latin I remember from 4 years of high school ...)

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 20 Sep 91 10:59:55 CDT
From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec)
Subject: dry hopping/brewing spiced beers

Here are some ways to dry hop:

(1) Just throw the damn things in.  I've done this a few times and
have not infected the beer.  We've all read at one point or another
that brewers would spice their beer with one thing or
another--juniper, ginger, what have you--and that they empirically
discovered the preservative qualities of the hops.   Your wort is
hopped from the first bittering additions, so presumably you should
benefit from this quality of the hops.  Of course, we also add
hops for their wonderful bittering, flavoring, and aromatic qualities.
Yes, the concern is that the hops, like anything else, harbor
bacteria, wild yeast, and other nasties, and that's what makes us
nervous.

(2) Briefly boil the hops first.  Bring a small amount of water to
boil, boil the hops for about a minute, let them cool, then toss in
the hops and the water. 

(3) I think I just read this in a recent HBD.  You value the dry hops
for their aromatics, and don't want to boil them because you'll
destroy the volatile oils.  So, instead, soke the hops in some vodka,
and warm the solution (not too warm!).  Then, pitch hops and vodka into your
secondary.  The alcohol in the vodka will sanitize the hops.

What quantity of hops should you dry hop?  Try 1 ounce.  For how long?
At least 1 week.  A good time to do this is when racking from primary
to secondary.  I recall someone (source unknown) arguing that you
should dry hop for 3 weeks to adequately use the hops, but I don't
know if this is true or not.

The last idea can also be extended to the treatment of herbs and
spices for spiced beer.  Instead of throwing the ginger, coriander,
orange rinds, etc., into your boil, soak them first for several weeks
in a vodka solution.  The argument here is the same as above.  You
sanitize the spices and herbs and preserve the volatiles which are an
important component of aroma and taste.  When you get around to
brewing, you'll have your spices ready to add to secondary.  

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 20 Sep 91 09:44:17 -0700
From: robertn at folsm3.intel.com (RUBICON READY)
Subject: Re: scales


>a dime at a yard scale.  For water salts, or anything else requiring
>more accurate measurements, I use a shooter's reloading scale.  I
>have no idea what these cost these days;  I've had mine 25+ years. 
>They're compact and very accurate, but are, unfortunately,
>calibrated in grains, so you'll need to pull out the ol' CRC
>Handbook of Chemistry and Physics and look up the conversion
>factors for the units of your choice.

Well Martin, as you know, I make very good use of my reloading scale!

I have a RCBS scale, the 505 model I think, without looking. It will 
handle up to about 1000 grains. It also has a conversion scale to 
grams, as grams are what bb's and shot are weighed.

There are a number of manufactures, for instance RCBS, Lyman, and Lee.
A scale can typically range in the $50 range, but as with any other
item, can get into the $100's. They are easy to find at many sporting
goods stores.

As far as accuracy, mine goes to 0.10 grains, which is pretty reasonable.

>= Martin A. Lodahl   			Pacific*Bell Systems Analyst =
>= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =

I agree Martin, as you know! That slightly dark ale I brewed is about ready
for tasting too.....

RobertN
robertn at folsm3.intel.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 20 Sep 91 09:19:57 PDT
From: auspex!tooch at uunet.UU.NET (Michael J. Tuciarone)
Subject: Re:  more uses for the hydrometer

Q. 14:	Describe how one determines alcohol content of a brew using
	a hydrometer.

PREFERRED ANSWER:
	Take a specific gravity reading of the unfermented wort.
	Upon completion of fermentation, measure the specific gravity
	of the resulting beer or ale. Apply a factor to the difference
	to yield percent alcohol.

OTHER ACCEPTABLE ANSWERS:
	1) Carefully measure one kilogram of beer into a vessel.
	Heat to precisely 195 degrees Fahrenheit, and hold at
	that temperature for ten minutes, stirring constantly
	with the hydrometer. Cool and weigh the result; the difference
	is the percent alcohol.

	2) Seek out the brewmaster. Say, "If you tell me the alcohol
	content of your beer, I will give you this hydrometer."

In other news, Ken writes:
> I'd be curious to know more about this. I believe hops are a polyploid
> (maybe a diploid?) of marijuana... 

I presume the prepostition you wanted was "like," not "of."
And yes, most of the "commercial" strains of marijuana now grown in the
U.S. are polyploid: they have redundant sets of chromosomes to enhance
the expression of characteristic traits. This is quite common in 
cultivated plants; corn is another example.

Rumor has it that those clever botany majors at Davis had something
to do with the genetic manipulation of California pot.

t

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 20 Sep 91 10:24:37 PDT
From: ek at chem.UCSD.EDU (Ed Kesicki)
Subject: cooler pump


This is in response to the person who wanted info on recirculating pumps
for his wort chiller.  We use these in the lab to recirculate icewater
through condensers.  I've seen them in hardware stores also--they are used
to recirculate water in those babbling brook things that people put in
their yard/patio.  They are made by the Little Giant Pump Co. We use
Model #1.  Here is full info if you can't find them in a store:

	Little Giant Pump Company
	3810 North Tulsa St.
	Oklahoma City, OK  73112
	Tel. (405) 947-2511

They are also available from Fisher Scientific, Pgh, PA.  Here is the info
Fisher gives for Model #1:

	List price		$65 (probably cheaper in hardware stores)

	Flow rate		12.9 liter/min at 1 foot head
				 4.9 liter/min at 6 foot head
	Able to lift water 7 feet

This is a submersible pump, so you would just have to attach it to your wort
chiller and put it in a bucket of icewater; the outlet hose of the chiller
would then be put into the bucket. To avoid excess ice use, probably best to
use RT water at first.  I don't know how much time this set-up would save,
but since someone asked, I thought I'd post what I knew.


Ed Kesicki
San Diego, CA


Return to table of contents


Date: 20 September 1991 12:33:01 CDT
From: Sean Dyer <C03601SD at WUVMD.Wustl.Edu>
Subject: If you build a better siphon the world will......

 I've noticed alot of recent discussion about oxidation of
wort/green beer while racking.  I am also concerned about this
problem but have not yet figured out how to rack my siphon
without a substantial amount of bubbling and obvious oxidation
I have dealt with this problem by keeping racking to a minimum. That
is I ferment only in a primary and rack only at bottling time.  I would
like to be able to rack my fermented beer to a new vessel and fine it
but I can't seem to establish a bubble free siphon when the little cap
is attached to my racking tube.  The inadequate siphon that I am able
to establish is rather slow and therefore increases exposure
to infection.  I would also like to be able to chill my unpitched
wort for about 12 hours and rack it off the precipitated trub.
Obviously oxidation would not be a problem but I am hesitant to expose
the unpitched/unprotected wort to infection in the racking proccess.
Does anyone have a better solution than siphoning or a better way
to siphon?

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 20 Sep 91 11:33:53 -0600
From: dinsdale at chtm.eece.unm.edu (Don McDaniel)
Subject: male hop plants

I agree that you don't want to introduce male plants.  If you or your
neighbors have different varietys, the resulting cross-polination will
result in some indeterminate hybrid if any plants are grown from the
seeds produced.  This is an undesirable situation as much work goes into
producing and characterizing hybrids.

I have a fuzzy memory of reading somewhere that it either is, or has
been illegal to introduce male plants in some regions in which the
growth of hops is an important industry.

Don McDaniel

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 20 Sep 91 14:33:16 EDT
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu>
Subject: AA Brewers Guild meeting report

Somebody, a while back, had a question about what one might do at a
club meeting.  Well, I went to my first such meeting this week, and it
was a blast!

I should start out by saying that, apparently, not all meetings of the
Ann Arbor Brewer's Guild reach this high level.

The meeting took place at a member's house (as, indeed they all do),
but this particular member lived a good 45 minute drive away.  I couldn't
have found the place without the map he sent out with the newsletter
(it was back in the woods, down a dirt road, after following all manner
of twists and turns through the nearest town.)  The meeting started at
7:30; I got there about 8:00, and the club secretary came in shortly
after I did.

This meeting was titled "brewing^2", and involved the brewing of two
almost identical batches by a couple of good brewers.  They had gotten
hold of some Budweiser kegs and gone wild in the metal shop. (Dave
West, the host, has an amazingly well equipped metal shop in his garage. 
One of the other members commented that he had seen service stations that
were less well equipped.)  There were at least 6 modified kegs in
evidence.  A few details on the brewpot construction:  The tops had
been cut out of the kegs (with a grinding wheel, I think).  Some were cut
bigger than others, the larger pieces made good lids for the pots with
the smaller holes.  They had drilled holes at three locations up the side
and soldered in (1/4"?) copper tubing (there was a fitting involved, as I
believe that you can't solder to stainless steel), crimped at the
inside end, to hold dial thermometers.  The tubing was slightly flattened
to make good contact with the thermometer probe.  Near the bottom (3"
up?) were three stainless crossbars, welded to holes drilled in the
side of the pot, that served to support the mesh that took the place of a
lauter tun during sparging (more on this later).  Below these was
installed a spigot and pipe (3/4"?) with an elbow pointing to the
bottom to draw out the wort.  Here is a lousy ASCII picture that may
help:

                                 |                      |
   Not to scale!                 |    lid goes here     |
                                 |/                    \|
                                 |                      |
                    thermometer (|=====                 |
                   stuck in tube |                      |
                                 |                      |
                                 |                      |
                                (|=====                 |
                                 |                      |
                                 |                      |
                                 |                      |
                                (|=====                 |
                                 |                      |
                                 ||_ _m_e_s_h_ _ _ _ _ ||
               valve handle --+  |    o      o      o   |  o = mesh support
                             ----|----------\           |      in cross-section
                      spigot ----|---------\ |          |
                                 |\        | |         /|
                                 | -------------------- |
 

The copper mesh was interesting.  It was made in two "half moon"
pieces, each with a rim around the edge (two pieces so that it can be fit
in through the top of the pot!)  The holes were at least 1/4" in
diameter, much larger than I would have thought would work.  However,
almost no grain or husks came out the spigot!

When I got there, both pots were full of grain and water, having
reached mash temperature about 15 minutes earlier.  One mash was going
about 150, the other around 160 (as I recall); the intent that one brew
would end up dryer than the other.  One of the brewers had attached a
pump to his spigot (using a quick-connect fastener) and was recirculating
the wort to the top of the pot.  The idea was that he wouldn't have to do
any recirculation when he sparged.  

As mash-out time approached, they both started to heat sparge water
over some industrial-strength burners (most homemade, I think one was a
"Cajun Cooker") that sounded a bit like jet engines when they were
fired up.  They lit the burners with a propane torch ("I don't want to
get my fingers too close.").  While heating, the bottoms of the pots
reached a dull orange glow.  10 gallons of water took about 20 minutes to
come from well temperature (50deg F) to a boil.  Although the night was
chilly, we all had no problem keeping warm!

Anyway, they sparged and boiled (one had problems with his pot boiling
over, the other didn't)  and cooled the wort with some monstrous
immersion chillers.  Looked like 1/2" copper tubing to me.  I think
smaller tubing would have been better, as the water coming out the end of
the chiller was not really hot (agitating the chiller helped some).  (A
side note: Dave claimed that a Cornelius keg makes a fantastic form for
rolling a coil the right size to chill a Budweiser keg full of boiling
wort.)

By the time the wort was chilled enough to pitch, it was after 11, and
I had to leave.  I don't know what time they finished (especially the
clean-up), but it must have been late.

Around this brewing activity was lots of homebrew sampling, conversation,
recipe trading, and so on.  A good time was had by all.  Next month,
we'll sample the results.

=Spencer W. Thomas 		HSITN, U of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 48109
spencer at med.umich.edu		313-747-2778


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 20 Sep 91 14:35:55 EDT
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu>
Subject: plastic carboys

They are #7 (whatever plastic that is) and specifically say
FOR WATER ONLY, DO NOT REFILL WITH ANY OTHER LIQUIDS.

Type 7 plastic is "other".  Usually, type 7 containers are made of
several sandwiched or intermixed plastics.  For example, plastic
ketchup bottles are a layered construction of two types (I forget which
now).  But, in any case, the #7 designation tells you exactly nothing
about what type of plastic is in there.

=Spencer W. Thomas 		HSITN, U of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 48109
spencer at med.umich.edu		313-747-2778


Return to table of contents


Date: 20 Sep 91 12:39:20 PDT (Fri)
From: bryan at tekgen.bv.tek.com
Subject: Hydrometer and fixing the current batch.

If you take a specific gravity reading on your batch while you are still
boiling it, it's easy to hit a target O.G. (Put a little of the wort in
the freezer to cool it to 60 degrees before making the measurement.)

If the reading is too high, add a little water. If it's too low, boil a 
little longer.
			Bryan Olson
			bryan at tekgen.bv.tek.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1991 16:13 EDT
From: HERREN%midd.cc.middlebury.edu at mitvma.mit.edu
Subject: large batches

I've read some messages from you "always all grain" guys and many of your
references to recipes are for batches as large as 15 gallons. What the heck
do you use for primary and secondary for a batch that big? Is it all done
in one vessel or do you use multiple carboys?
 -David


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1991 16:40 EDT
From: HERREN%midd.cc.middlebury.edu at mitvma.mit.edu
Subject: wet hops

Bill Thacker's suggestion that we hop growers "harvest all our hops a the
same time so we can assume they have similar moisture contents" is a good
one (sorry I'm not doing real quotations today--I'm on a public machine
without my favorite utilities). Bill, can I expect you next year to help
so that you and I and a few dozen other folks can get all my stuff harvested
in one day?   :-)

Seriously, I don't thing one could assume that ones cones were of a
similar moisture content even if harvested the same hour. I noticed that
upper cones were moister then lower cones. There was also a certain amount of
variation from one plant to the next. I'm not a chemist (or an alchemist for
that matter--I dutifully keep detailed records of all the measurements, but
I do it backasswards. I trained as a chef for years--I grab the hops and say
to myself "Hmm, that's enough." and then I measure them to find out how much
I had  decided on!), but I also wonder about "breaking the lupulin"s (sp?)
by freezing wet hops as being a good idea. I know when I was young and foolish
and was an afficionado of another special plant's flower, that you definitely
didn't want to break its lupulins even if frozen. Any of you chemistry/biology
guys care to comment?
 -David


Return to table of contents


Date: 	Fri, 20 Sep 1991 16:40:00 -0400
From: MIKE LIGAS <LIGAS at SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA>
Subject: Request for "Cat's Meow" Recipe Book

Since I do not have access to a Unix machine I am unable to decompress the
recipe book "Cat's Meow" from the mthvax.miami.edu archives. Would one of you
kind souls out there in electronic beerland please forward me an uncompressed
copy? Many thanks in advance.

Mike Ligas
ligas at sscvax.cis.mcmaster.ca

PS: If anyone else is interested E-mail me directly and I'll forward you a copy
    as soon as mine arrives.

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 20 Sep 91 16:39:27 -0500
From: dbreiden at mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Subject: Malto-dextrin

Hey all--

I've heard malto-dextrin mentioned as a way to increase body in a light
colored beer.  I'm not so sure how on earth to approach and use the
stuff.

I am an extract brewer -- so anyone with experience on how to use
malto-dextrin, and just what it does for you in extract brewing,
would you be so kind as to enlighten those of us who are confused?

Thanks,

Danny

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 20 Sep 91 16:45:44 EDT
From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West)
Subject: Yet more hops questions

I got my rizhomes late in the season, put 'em in anyway, and got four 
relatively short hop plants. Just the other day I harvested all twenty 
cones off the Bullion (the only one that produced). 

Now I'm thinking that there is a better place to have put the plants. 
Im not much of a gardener so:
Do I want to dig them up now and move them? 
Wait till spring? (seems wrong) 
Wait till the end of next season and move rizhomes? 
Or wait till the spring after next and move rizhomes? 
BTW I live in southern Massachussetts for whatever difference that might make.

Meanwhile I've rooted some clippings and they're starting to take off, 
has anyone grown hops as a house or office plant through the winter? 
I'm gonna try.

Carl

When I stop learning. Bury me.

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 21 Sep 91 08:39:36 MDT
From: abirenbo at isis.cs.du.edu (Aaron Birenboim)
Subject: priming with honey

>From: bgros at sensitivity.berkeley.edu (Bryan Gros)
>
>   if instead of priming with the usual 3/4 cup of corn sugar, I want
>to prime with honey, how much do I use?  3/4 cup?

   I primed an x-mas beer with about 1 cup of honey.  The carbonation
ended up slightly high, but no exploding bottles.  A word of warning:
the beer tased awfull for about 2 months.  In fact i threw some
out when i needed botles.  big mistake.  I now consider it
my best brew yet, but when fermenting honey BE PATIENT.  It
has an awful, vomit like, taste until it has aged a bit.  I'd
plan on bottle conditioning for at least 2 or 3 months.

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 21 Sep 91 10:47 CDT
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: SNRATIO

 
 
 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling
 
 RE: rsd at silk.udev.cdc.com
 
 >I appologize to everyone if this is the fourteenth Jack Schmidling
 flame that you've waded through today.  It is a huge credit to the
 digest and its subscribers that the SN ratio is consistently so
 high, and that the contributions so consistently valuable (at least
 to me).
 
 >In this vein, If you do not wish to be further persueded that Jack
 is probably not qualified to produce the video "BREW IT AT HOME", go
 on to the next article.
 
 Jack says:
 
 I am not sure just what affect flames have on SN ratio but in spite of your 
 attempt to reduce my efforts to an evil conspiracy to extort money from 
 unwitting neophytes, I would like to point out that I am capable of learning 
 as I go and do modify my thinking as I learn.  How bout you?
 
 
 >Jack asks:
 
  >>  1.  The amount of surface area exposed to air in the narrow
    column of falling beer is trivial and steadily shrinking.
 
 >Initially there will be no CO2 and lots of splashing.  This initial
 phase alone will probably damage the beer.  Furthermore,
 The question presumes that air is being transported into the
 beer only by diffusion into the falling column of beer.  This
 is not, in fact, the case.  The falling beer molecules are.......
 
 Jack says:
 
 A very excellent argument which I will take under advisement. 
 
 However, yesterday I taped a segment at the Baderbrau brewery (Jackson's 
 favorite American beer) and saw something that seems to blow your whole 
 argument to hell.
 
 Just before the caps go on, a very thin, high pressure stream of sterile 
 water is squirted into the bottle.  The result is immediate foaming and 
 frothing, up and out of the bottle.  This fills the headspace with CO2 and 
 drives out the air.
 
 
   >> 2.  The CO2 blanket keeps rising to cover more and more of
    the column making exposure to air, near zero near the end.
 
 >The CO2 blanket is only helping to keep air from diffusing in
 through the surface of the beer in the priming bucket.  Diffusion
 is slower than molasses anyway.  The problem this solves
 is not nearly as great a problem as the others you have created.
 
 Jack Says:
 
 You are ignoring the point I made and pursuing your own with vigor.  As the 
 beer rises the collumn gets shorter, blanket or no.
 
 
 >>    3.  If the pros inject oxygen while pitching yeast and
     homebrewers are supposed to splash it around to oxygenate at
     pitching time, what harm can a little oxygen do when we want
     to re-invigorate the fermentation at bottling time?
 
 >This is the question I found most infuriating.  It would not be
 infuriating if asked by a novice home brewer.  It's a good question.
 The problem I have with Jack asking it is that it means he has
 zero familiarity with the yeast life cycle.  This means he
 has done essentially no reading on the subject of home brewing.  He
 is making this video without trying to understand his subject.
 
 Jack says:
 
 And you are making personal attacks without trying to understand the person 
 you are attacking.
 
 As anyone knows, who HAS read the literature over the years, it is replete 
 with errors, myths and contradictions.  I just finished reading Noonan's $20 
 tome and find it not only full of hard to find "facts" but just as full of 
 "momilies" as this digest and every other book I have read.
 
 My main objective in "BREW IT AT HOME" is to demonstrate a process that works 
 every time and produces an acceptable beer, at minimum expense in energy and 
 dollars.  The secondary objective is to whet the appetite for more advanced 
 procedures and better beer.
 
 What I refuse to do is repeat and perpetuate unproven myths and discussions 
 such as this help me to sort them out.
 
 
 >Jack has demonstrated that he is making this video without making
 a good faith effort to understand his subject matter.  It seems
 to me that Jack plans to deceive people into thinking that his video
 is a useful guide to home brewing.  It also seems to me that Jack
 plans to profit from sales of the video that arise from this
 deception.  In Minnesota, this combination of deception and profit
 is what constitutes the legal definition of fraud.
 
 >It probably won't matter.  I imagine that most reputable homebrew
 outlets will quickly recognize the amateurishness of Jack's
 technique and refuse to carry it.
 
 >Sorry for raving.
 
 Jack says:
 
 I left your "raving" in tact, just to make my point.  It requires no further 
 comment than to mention that I do not plan on selling it to the choir.  The 
 market I am targetting are the masses who never dreamed that decent beer 
 could be made at home.
 
 I am not quite sure of your motivation but I appreciate the opportunity to 
 exchange ideas and squash momilies.
 
 BTW, you remind me a bit of the guy who did a scathing review of "THE ROTTEN 
 WORLD OF FUNGUS", in an obscure little mushroom hunters journal.  He took the 
 opportunity to play big time movie critic and played it to the hilt.  Most of 
 comments were technically correct, but totally irrelevant to the objective of 
 my film.
 
 Jack 
 
 
 
 
p.s. An experiment occured to me that I will try the next time I prime a
batch.  I will hold a lighted batch in the priming bucket.  If it goes out,
I win.

js
ZZ

Return to table of contents


Date: 22 Sep 91 10:40:31
From: Rad Equipment <Rad_Equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Ice Chest Mash/Lauter-tuns

Subject:  Ice Chest Mash/Lauter-tuns            Time:10:30 AM    Date:9/22/91
I recently began mashing in a 48 quart Igloo Legend cooler ustng the slotted
copper pipe method.  After the third mash I notice some deformation in the
bottom of the chest and some blistering in the corners.  I really like the
Igloos because they have so many replaceable parts, however if the interior
can't stand the heat I guess I'll have to replace it.  What are your
experiences with such coolers and other brands.  What sort of life span should
I expect?

       Russ Wigglesworth              CI$:      72300,61
 |~~|  UCSF Medical Center            Internet: Rad Equipment at RadMac1.ucsf.edu
 |HB|\ Dept. of Radiology, Rm. C-324  Voice:    415-476-3668 / 474-8126 (H)
 |__|/ San Francisco, CA 94143-0628


Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 22 Sep 91 18:16:47 EDT
From: Paul Dodd <pdodd at tetons.eecs.umich.edu>
Subject: Avoiding a wort-chiller


I'm a newcomer to brewing, and I just started my second batch last
night.  My first batch took too long to cool (overnight) so I thought
I'd try to get the wort to cool faster this time.  I'd like to see
what others think of this:

I used 5 1/2 gallons of bottled (in plastic) water for my brew, since Ann
Arbor water sucks.  What I did was put 1 1/2 gallons into the boiling
pot and the other 4 to the back of the fridge, and I cranked the
fridge cooling way up.  The result was a semi-slushy mix of ice and
water.  When I added the hot wort and cold water-slush in my
fermenter, the resulting temperature was 62 degrees F!  Who needs a
wort chiller?  Any potential problems?

- ----                     We are young, wandering the face of the earth,
Paul Dodd                Wondering what are dreams might be worth,
pdodd at eecs.umich.edu     Learning that we're only immortal for a limited time.
                                                                       - Rush

Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 22 Sep 91 20:59:52 PDT
From: polstra!norm at uunet.UU.NET (Norm Hardy)
Subject: Sex and Beer

While watching the Seahawks lose another game (ah, but those Huskies of
Wash!), I was drawn to 2 beer advertisements; by Coors and Old Milwaukee (it
doesn't get any better...).  The two companies are REALLY pushing the skinny
ladies with big busts and come-on faces with a lot of skin in an effort to 
sell their product.

Yeah, it is nothing new, but somehow I am tired of the notion that if I
drink their product good things will happen to me.  Good food, good company,
good sex, and bad beer.  The Silver Bullet sure comes UP nicely at the end
and finishes with a nice explosion of apparent pleasure.  Hey, I'm not for
censureship, but sometimes I wonder....

Like, how many skinny homebrewers do you know?  Okay, so how many stay that
way?  Not me.


Return to table of contents



End of HOMEBREW Digest #729, 09/23/91
*************************************
-------

---