---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Coffee beer (dbreiden)
  Oops: raspberry mead and pectin ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Grapes in beer (Ted Manahan)
  Bartender's Guide (Michael L. Hall)
  Re: Chrishmash (hic!) Ale, corrected recipe (homer)
  Yeast at bottling (csswingley)
  DIGEST SUBMISSION (John_D._Sullivan.wbst311)
  Re: Father Barleywine's yeast reuse trick -- first attempt (Marc Rouleau)
  NJ homebrew laws (GC Woods)
  Headless Christmas Ale (larryba)
  pot handles, groats&egges, cranberry clouds, sanitation (Carl West)
  I suck (Carl West)
  Bucket 'o flame (Chad Epifanio)
  Looking for Brew clubs in Philadelphia (anderson)
  Yeast Repitching's Risks (Martin A. Lodahl)
  Lagering - Carboy vs. Bottles (Mike Zulauf)
  Notes on Recent Digests (Jeff Frane)
  Saaz alpha acid content (Mark Sandrock)
  Report on Number 23 (John S. Watson - FSC)


Send submissions to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues!]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 91 09:32:53 -0500
From: dbreiden at mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Subject: Coffee beer

I know that posting untested recipes is kind of wishy-washy, but I gleaned
the following coffee beer recipes from this very forum a long time ago.  
I've attributed the recipes wherever possible.  From this point forward,
all uses of the pronoun 'I' and 'me' and such are by the original authors.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>From Tom Hotchkiss trh at hpestrh.hp.com

Colorado Crankcase Stout
3.3lb   EDME SFX Dark Malt Extract
3.3lb   John Bull Dark ME
2.0lb   Amber Dry ME
1.0lb   Xtal Malt
1.0lb   Roasted Barley
1.0lb   Chocolate Malt
0.75lb  Black Malt
1/2 stick brewers licorice (60 min)
1 oz Brewers Gold (60 min)
1 oz Brewers Gold (60 min)
1 oz Fuggles (30 min)
1 oz Fuggles (Dry hop in primary)
1/2 lb French Roast Coffee Beans unground
Wyeast #1028 British Ale Yeast

Steep Grains prior to boil.
OG = 1.065
Add coffee and Fuggles to primary fermenter.  After 24 hours, skim off
crud, coffee beans, and hops.
FG = 1.026

Toms Comments:
   Too much coffee unless you're a real coffee fanatic.  Lots of caffeine.

- ---------------------------------

Black Cat Stout

6.6lb  M&F Dark Syrup
1 lb   M&F Dark DME
1/2lb  Black Patent
3/4lb  Xtal Malt
1/2lb  Roasted Barley
1/2 cup Dark Molasses
3/4 oz Willamette
3/4 oz Cascades
1 tsp vanilla
1/2 cup French roast coffee beans
Edme Ale Yeast   (yuck!)

Steep grains prior to boil.  Boiled all hops for 60 min.  Made a pot
of coffee out of the ground coffee and added it to the primary.
This guy also boiled the vanilla for the full time, which I think would
be a no no.  I'd add the molasses and vanilla sometime during the last
5 minutes as well as some finishing hops, maybe some flavour hops 
during the last 20 mins.  I like the idea of making coffee and just
adding it more than either boiling beans or "dry coffeeing".  I haven't
brewed this yet either, but suspect I'll try a hybrid of the two.
I really like the idea of a little vanilla.
BTW - I don't remember who sent this recipe in.
- ----------------------------------------
Here is a recipe that I have used several times now with excelent results.
It's an extract with adjuncts brew but I don't let that bother me.  The
Sierra Nevada yeast culture is not terribly attenuative and the last batch
was a bit sweeter than I'd prefer.  Next time I'll use Wyeast's Irish
Stout Yeast that Florian and others have recommended.

This is based fairly on and is still very close to "Baer's Stout" from
Dave Baer of Sun.COM.  I call it "Speedball Stout".

	4oz Flaked Barley
	4oz Medium Crystal malt

	6# Dark Australian malt extract
	1/2# Dark Australian dry

	4oz black patent malt
	4oz molasses

	2oz   cascade (bittering) at 4.7 AAU
	0.6oz northern brewers (aromatic) ? AAU
	1/3lb Coffee, whole bean (I use Peet's Costa Rican, a fairly dark roast)

	We've been using a Sierra Nevada yeast culture for the last few
	batches and it's been a very nice brew.  Prestarted Wyeast
	British Ale yeast has worked well also.

	OG: 49 - 51
	FG: 17 - 20
	Fermentation temp: 55 degF though I've done it much hotter.

	Steep 50 minutes at 153 degF: flaked barley and crystal malt

	Boil 90 minutes.
	Add black patent and molasses at 45 min.
	Bittering in thirds each 30 min.

	Fill a hops bag with the coffee and aromatic hops and add to the
	hot wort just before chilling.  If you don't have a wort chiller
	you'd better wait until pitching.  Remove the bag after about
	24 hours or when the fermentation is going strong, whichever is
	longer.  Rack to secondary once initial fermentation has died
	down, about 5 to 6 days.  The last couple of times I've left the
        bag of coffee beans and hops until racking without over doing the
        coffee flavor.  This cuts down on the potential for contamination.

Stephen Hansen

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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 91 10:22:57 EDT
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu>
Subject: Oops: raspberry mead and pectin

Re the message I sent a couple days ago about raspberry mead, I just
remembered another step.  He added something (an enzyme of some sort)
to the raspberries to degrade the pectin.  This is why they had to sit
around for 24 hours before pouring the honey "wort" over them.  This
would probably also solve the problem doug at bitstream.com reports with his
cranberry beer.  Does anyone know what this substance might be?

=Spencer W. Thomas 		HSITN, U of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 48109
spencer at med.umich.edu		313-747-2778


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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 91 08:28:24 pdt
From: Ted Manahan <tedm at hpcvcbp.cv.hp.com>
Subject: Grapes in beer
Full-Name: Ted Manahan

Chuck Coronella <CORONELLRJDS at CHE.UTAH.EDU> asks:
>       Has anyone ever made a beer with grapes as an ingredient?

I am very interested in this too. My neighbor has a lot of wine grapes
that will not be used this year. I was thinking of putting some juice
into my next batch of pale ale...

Just wondering what you all think,

Ted Manahan
tedm at hp-pcd.cv.hp.com
503/750-2856

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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 91 10:32:30 MDT
From: mlh at cygnus.ta52.lanl.gov (Michael L. Hall)
Subject: Bartender's Guide

First of all, I got the guide from mthvax.cs.miami.edu, not where I said
I got it before (I was doing a lot of ftp'ing and I got mixed up as to what
I got where). Apologies to all involved.

I still can't get the bartender's guide from mthvax to work, but I got a 
better version of the same guide in PostScript from someone else on the net (gcw at garage.att.com). It seems to have been based on the guide from mthvax,
but some additional work has been done on it and it looks really nice. 

I'm putting it on cygnus.ta52.lanl.gov (128.165.144.121) under anonymous ftp.
I'm not planning on leaving it there for long (it's not work-related, you 
know), so please get it ASAP. Actually, it would be great if the administrator
from mthvax would put it on the anonymous ftp there.

+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Michael L. Hall    There are times, sir, when men of good conscience |
| hall at lanl.gov      cannot blindly follow orders. - Jean-Luc Picard   |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+


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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 91 10:36 MDT
From: homer at drutx.att.com
Subject: Re: Chrishmash (hic!) Ale, corrected recipe

>3     pounds Munton and Fison amber dry malt extract }  ?? Typo ??

I checked with Phil Fleming, this is the correct recipe:

Ingredients for 5 gallons

3.3   pounds Munton and Fison Stout Kit
3.3   pounds Munton and Fison amber malt extract syrup
3     pounds Munton and Fison light dry malt extract
1/2   ounce Hallertauer hops (60 minutes)
1/2   ounce Hallertauer hops (5 minutes)
3/4   pound honey
5     3-inch cinnamon sticks
2     teaspoons allspice
1     teaspoon cloves
6     ounces ginger root
6     rinds from medium size oranges (scrape the white insides of the 
                                      rind away)
      Wyeast No. 1007 German ale liquid yeast
7     ounces corn sugar for priming

*O.G.:  1.069
*T.G.:  1.030
*Primary fermentation: 14 days  at  61 degrees F.
*Age when judged: six months

BREWER'S SPECIFICS
     Simmer spices and honey (45 minutes). Boil malt and hops (50 minutes).
Add finishing hops and boil (5 minutes). Cool, strain and pitch yeast.
[Note: It's not made clear, but the honey/spice mix is added to the wort
just before cooling, they're not boiled together.]

 - ---



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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 91 09:46:41 -0700
From: csswingley at ucdavis.edu
Subject: Yeast at bottling


A quick question relating to adding yeast before bottling.
Three and a half weeks ago I brewed an all-grain porter based on some
of the past winners in Zymergy.  Now three and a half weeks later (or
three weeks in the secondary fermentor at 70-75 degrees F) it is still\
bubbling.  This doesn't really concern me as I've had beer sit that
long before.  But what I've also had happen with long times in the
secondary fermentor is the beer once primed and bottled, doesn't get
carbonated.  It's a real drag having two cases of pale ale that
have no carbonation, let me tell you.

To my question:  Miller advises against adding yeast with the priming
sugar because that would increase the amount of yeast at the bottom
of the bottle which could lyse.  He says that even if you let your beer
clarify quite a bit in the fermentor there will still be enough yeast
in the beer to carbonate it upon adding more sugar.  Is he right?  And
has anyone else experienced this no-carbonation phenomenon?  The
only explaination I can come up with to explain why my pale ale remains
uncarbonated to this day is that I killed the yeast somehow--or that
it all settled out before bottling.

Anyhow, in the next couple weeks I'm sure my all-grain porter (which
took 8 hours to brew) will stop bubbling.  Let me know what you
all think about adding yeast before bottling.  

Thanks in advance.

Christopher Swingley            csswingley at ucdavis.edu
Grad Group in Ecology
University of California, Davis

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Date: 	Wed, 23 Oct 1991 10:06:04 -0700
From: John_D._Sullivan.wbst311 at xerox.com
Subject: DIGEST SUBMISSION


Reply to David Ballard (beer ball kegging)- my dad has been using 5 gallon beer
balls for some time now, and has had very good luck. The tap uses a CO2
cartridge similar to a pellet gun (good or bad idea? The beer tastes
excellent.) You have to replace it once, when the keg is half full.

Reply to Dave Resch (saaz hops) - As with all hops there are variables . I have
some whole compressed saaz hops packaged right from Czeckoslavakia (sp?) with
an alpha of 3.2.  By the way, they are heavenly finishing hops.

Reply to Pat Patterson (Papazian's Rocky Raccoon Crystal Honey Lager) - I agree
this is an excellent, easy to make beer. I tried honey in an amber beer, and
would recommend sticking with lights. My next  Honey Lager I will prime with
1/2 cup honey, should be good.

John

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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1991 13:23:25 EDT
From: Marc Rouleau <mer6g at fuggles.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Subject: Re: Father Barleywine's yeast reuse trick -- first attempt

On Oct 21, 10:24am, Chris Shenton wrote:
> Only one place I can see problems cropping up: the siphon hose from the
> cooled wort to the keg. Unless perhaps you use a counter-flow rather than
> immersion chiller. Any comments, Marc?

I assume you meant "cooled wort to the CARBOY"?

I immersion-chill in the boiler (usually emptying all the icecube trays
in the freezer into the boiler as well!) and then strain the 70 degree
wort into a big plastic bucket (recently washed with dish soap) with a
plastic spigot near the bottom.

I strain by fitting a fine-mesh nylon straining bag into one of those
handled stainless steel colanders.  The straining end of the colander
has two inch-long metal loops protruding from the edge.  I rest the
strainer atop the bucket on the handle and the two protruding spurs.
Then I ladle the cool wort into the strainer.  Trub quickly slows the
process to a trickle.  If I'm in a hurry I can complete the process in
five minutes by squeezing the straining bag and emptying the trub once
or twice, but that results in a less clear wort.

Then I just drain the wort into the carboy, which already has a pile of
happy yeast at the bottom waiting to make beer!

Or do you mean "BEER to the keg"?  I just run warm tap water through
the siphon hose for a minute or two before and after each time I use it.

Regarding my abandonment of commonly accepted sanitary practices and my
ongoing experiment in carrying repitching *way* too far :-), I'm no
microbiologist, but I am a beer drinker.  My beer pleases me and my
friends (and sometimes even my wife :-) ), and that's all I'm after.

I'm sure there's all sorts of bacteria in that carboy and that there
are subtle things going on in those unwashed bottles too (I run used
bottles through the dishwasher and reuse them as-is during the next
bottling session), but I've had no mold in the carboy or gushing bottles
or anything obviously wrong with any of my batches.

I homebrew for the fun of it.  Aspects of it as it is commonly practiced
are unpleasant to me.  I don't like worrying about stuff I can't see,
and I especially don't enjoy getting bleach water all over my skin.
Rinsing 50+ bottles or baking them or whatever everyone else does turns
an already noxious task into a grueling ordeal.

I also don't like paying $4 a pop for yeast -- I don't use extracts for
exactly the same reason -- $25 a batch is way too much to pay when I
can brew from grain for $8.  Besides, of all brewing tasks, mashing is
definitely the most fun for me.  Turning dry grain into sweet wort is
magic!

I'm not suggesting that any of you do anything different.  I'm just
sharing my personal experience.  Take what you like and leave the rest.

    -- Marc Rouleau

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Date: 23 Oct 91 11:38:54 EDT (Wed)
From: GC Woods <gcw at garage.att.com>
Subject: NJ homebrew laws

>From: Bob Hettmansperger <Bob_Hettmansperger at klondike.bellcore.com>
>A) I understand that brewpubs are currently illegal in New Jersey (as is 
>homebrewing apparently).  Is there any effort currently underway to make them
>legal?  Anyone know who to write to?  Anyone have any information on micros?
>I know that ther is one in Vernon, but that's all I know about.  Are micro
>licences hard to come by?

There is presently a bill (A-114) currently before the NJ legislature to
make homebrewing legal and to remove the permit ($3) for making wine.
This saga however has been going on since 1986 and every pervious bill
was never voted on, so it dies and must be reintroduced during the next
meeting of the NJ Legislature (every 2 years).

The current bill (like the old ones) is sponsored by Art Albohn (NJ
State Assembly representative - if anyone is in his region please vote
for him!) who is a friend of my brewclub president (Ed Busch MASH). One of
the problems is the head of the ABC (Alcoholic Beverage Control) has
been replaced and the new person amended the bill adding permit
requirements (must be a democrat). Ed has testified many times now and
the bill has also now picked up support from the Libertarian party
because it "enhances personal freedom", but they do not agree with the
permits. Anyway the bill passed the state senate (36-0) , so now goes
back to the assembly for another vote. The problem is that another vote
is not scheduled in the assembly, but hopefully they will vote on it
before it is left to die again.

My person opinion is that they are out of their minds if they think I am
going to pay for a permit in the Peoples Republic of NJ!! 

Now for the big laugh - the current law defines wine as "any fermented
vegetable". So if they consider grapes to be a vegetable why not barley
and hops. The only problem is that none of us want to be the test case,
so our brewclub keeps a low profile.

I do not know why there is only the one micro in NJ. Should have asked
when I was there for a tour. By the way the micro is now called Clements
and they now make good beer (unlike vernon valley) - in fact the blond
dopplebock was excellent. The micro uses antique equipment imported from
Germany, in fact the beer is still fermented in open oak barrels.

When if ever Homebrewing becomes legal in NJ, then the next plan of
attack will be for brewpubs. Micros and brewpubs are much harder to get
through state legislatures because the big mega brewerys will lobby to
prevent this from happening. It is hard for the little guy to fight this
kind of vote buying!

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Date: Wed Oct 23 09:46:31 1991
From: microsoft!larryba at cs.washington.edu
Subject: Headless Christmas Ale

A month ago I brewed a Christmas ale based upon the recipe
passing around this digest last summer.  I converted the extract
into an all grain (sorta a porter with honey + spices, lightly
hopped)

Anyway it is GREAT.  The only problem is that it has a nice creamy head that
collapses pretty fast.  Even though it is pretty well carbonated it takes
vigorous pouring to get a head to rise.  Why?

My guess is that the problem is the oils from the Orange Zest
and possibly the cinamon/cloves/allspice.

Anyone else notice this with their spiced beers?



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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 91 12:42:18 EDT
From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West)
Subject: pot handles, groats&egges, cranberry clouds, sanitation


Pot handles

Sorry Lee, if the handles come off they *can* be welded back on, but it 
won't be an enameled pot anymore, the enamel will spall off because of the 
heat from the welding. Oh well, save up for that $tainless $teel.

Groats &c.

Length is generally the measure of the greatest dimension of an object, 
breadth is the measure of the next largest dimension, 
thickness is generally the measure of the least dimension. 
Digby says specifically,"the breadth of a groat". Do not confuse breadth for thickness. 
The medievalist cooks I know are also known for their research and in 
their estimation, according to paintings where they have found egges 
rendered next to objects of known size, the medieval egge is about the 
size of our medium hen's egg. To make a strong mead, boil it until a medium 
egg floats with a 28mm circular area exposed. Seems like a VERY high gravity 
to me. I wonder if groats were still 28mm in 1669?

Cranberry Clouds

If the berries were in the boil, that would be the root of the haze problem. 
The volcanism? doesn't sound like overpriming. Maybe premature bottling? 
otherwise benign infection?

Sanitation

Well, I've tried the less anal route to sanitation and it isn't working for me. 
Anybody want some Relief Owl Beer? I think my problem is that my town's water 
is untreated local well water, no chlorine. From here on in I'm boiling it all.


Carl West

I'm still learning, don't bury me yet.


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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 91 12:57:07 EDT
From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West)
Subject: I suck

When I start a siphon, I suck on it, when the beer or wort arrives, 
I double pinch the tube (kink it into a `Z' shape and squeeze it flat), 
remove the mouthpiece from the tubing and siphon away secure in knowing 
that the beer or wort is not picking up cooties from my mouth.

Works for me.

Carl West

Berry me.


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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 91 13:01:06 PDT
From: chad at mpl.UCSD.EDU (Chad Epifanio)
Subject: Bucket 'o flame

Concerning Bob Jones' remark about carboys:

I've never truely flamed before, but Mr. Jones is just plain wrong.
How can you make that absolute comment about carboys over plastic?
I personally started with both 6.5 gal and 5 gal fermenters in a 
two stage setup.  I personally thought these things were a pain in 
the ass.  They take so long to fill and rinse, and if you get a 
stain, kiss goodbye to several hours and say hello to a pain in the
back. 

>I would ask you how many awards have you won with your beers?

To be honest, I'm 0 for 0.  I entered none, since I brewed all
my previous batches hours from any club or competition.  Upon
moving to San Diego, I met a man by the name of Bob Writner who
convinced me of the merits of plastic primarys.  Yes, he has won
a few medals.  They filled up an entire wall.  The ones that 
wouldn't fit on the wall, he put in boxes in the basement.  He
is also consulting brewmeister to Temecula Brewing Company.  I 
would drag him in here to defend plastic, but he is away on a 
research experiment.  Like all of us, he has a real job on the
side :>  

Plastic is so much easier to use.  They are lighter, and you can 
haul them around easily by the handle.  After the boil, just
dump the wort through a strainer, reserving some of the cold
break matter in the kettle.  It airates fine as it spashes into
the bucket.  To sanitize, just fill with a bleach solution and
rinse with the garden hose.  If you want to save some yeast, just
stick your hand down there and grab a cup.  I even converted my
priming bucket so it can be used as a fermenter in those emergencies
when I have to make more than 10 gal at a time.

I would recommend a beginner use a glass carboy, just for the
sheer enjoyment and amazement of watching the process.  Also, the 
beginner can clearly see the yeast sediment and activity stop.
The bad part about plastic is that you can't see any of this going
on.

Relax.  Use what you feel most comfortable with.  I like the plastic,
and save the glass for the lagering.

Chad Epifanio--> chad%mpl at ucsd.edu  |  "There are no bad brews.
Scripps Institution of Oceanography |   However, some are better
Marine Physics Laboratory           |   than others."
================================================================
"All words and ideas are my own, etc., etc..."

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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 91 17:06:50 EDT
From: anderson at optical.bms.com
Subject: Looking for Brew clubs in Philadelphia

If someone knows of any clubs in the Philadelphia area, could they
send me contact information?

Thanks,

Jay

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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 91 14:20:20 PDT
From: Martin A. Lodahl <hpfcmr.fc.hp.com!hplabs!pbmoss!malodah>
Subject: Yeast Repitching's Risks

I was interested to see Bob Jones and Jay Hersh address so well the
risk of bacterial infection in repitched yeast, and I'd like to toss
in my groat's worth.  Reading the standard references and discussing
the question with brewing microbiologists has convinced me that even
if a brewer is able to keep the bacteria under control, there is a
limit to how many times a culture can be repitched, if large pitching
rates are used.  The reason is respiratory-deficient (petite)
mutants.  This is apparently a heritable mutation:  daughter cells
budding from a respiratory-deficient mutant seem themselves to be
respiratory-deficient.  In fact, the name (given by Pasteur) arises
from his observation that certain single-cell cultures on a streak 
plate were smaller than others, due to their inability to exploit 
an aerobic environment.  It spontaneously occurs at a more-or-less
constant rate (which I've forgotten) in non-mutant cells, so as you
can see, the long-term trend under anaerobic conditions is toward
the mutants becoming an increasing fraction of the population. 
The result is slowed and stuck fermentations, incomplete attenuation, 
and increased production of diacetyl and other usually-avoided products.
Commercial practice seems to be to periodically regenerate the
culture by growing several successive generations under aerobic
conditions, allowing the non-mutants to use their substantial
reproductive advantage under aerobic conditions to "regain the upper
hand" in the culture.  We just buy another packet of Wyeast ...

Yes, continually examining our process and testing "heresies" is a
very good thing, but I think it's a mistake for us to automatically
reject what the "pros" do, because we don't much care for their
beer.  I assure you, it doesn't taste that way by accident
(malicious intent?).  For them, it's _critical_ that every batch 
be saleable, so they've developed very elegant means of assuring 
such a result.  Our question then becomes one of whether a specific 
technique is appropriate to the specific results we desire, rather 
than whether it's a conceptual breakthrough or a colossal blunder.
I'll step down off the soapbox, now ...

= Martin A. Lodahl   			Pacific*Bell Systems Analyst =
= malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM       Sacramento, CA       916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =


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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 91 15:47:13 -0600
From: Mike Zulauf <zulauf at orbit.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: Lagering - Carboy vs. Bottles

Hi everybody!

     I've got a simple question that I hope someone can give me a
simple answer to.  I was wondering if there is any major difference
between lagering your beer while still in the carboy, as opposed to
lagering it after it has already been bottled.  I have always done
it with the beer in the carboy, but am interested in bottling, then
lagering, if there are no drawbacks.

     As always, any insight is greatly appreciated!

                                                    - Mike

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Date: 23 Oct 91 19:38:18 EDT
From: Jeff Frane <70670.2067 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Notes on Recent Digests

I've been out of town, and came back to a nice big stack of Homebrew Digests.
(Although I can't seem to find one numbered 744; anyone got a spare?) As others
commented, the time it was missing was not unlike an unasked-for withdrawal from
a happy addiction.

On the question of beginner brewers and books, etc. and more specifically, on
Dave Miller: I don't have a copy of Miller's book in front of me, and it's been
several years since I sat down with it. My specific objections which leap
immediately to mind have to do with his advice for new brewers and a general
distrust of his--to my mind--entirely too facile recipes. In spite of Martin
Lodahl's apparent success with starting a siphon with his mouth, I think it's a
very poor idea. Much prefer Lee Katman's suggestion of pre-filling the siphon;
myself, I use a turkey baster to suck on the hose for most siphons and the
pre-filling method to start the flow through the wort chiller. Miller also
offers as his beginning recipe an American light lager (with rice syrup? as I
remember, or anyway rice), which strikes me as patently ridiculous. I have
always tried to get brewers started on a very straightforward and flavorful ale,
not only because it's easy but because it's fairly opaque to error.

I will say that I thought some of his more technical information was very well
presented. JaH recommends Byron Burch's book. I haven't looked at that in quite
a long time but remember not being particularly impressed, in spite of Byron's
expertise. I included a list of brewing texts in my beginning brewing class and
at that time, several years ago, wrote this: Although Byron knows a lot about
homebrewing, the book isn't very well organized; Bryon has trouble knowing what
a brewer needs to know and when he or she needs to know it. He does touch on all
the important parts, though, and the book has the virtue of being very
inexpensive.

I recommend Papazian's book to new brewers, mostly because of the organization:
a very simple beer, followed by more information and a more complex brew, and
finally, all-grain brewing. It seems most logical to me, and the simplest, in
spite of a few problems.

One of those problems, which didn't get corrected in the latest edition, is the
blowoff tube. ^^James Smith^^ ran into this problem, I think, in his spruce
beer. "My blowoff hose plugged with hop bits, and foam hit the ceiling..." I
know of one fellow who blew his carboy all over the kitchen when the hop bits
plugged the blowoff hose. The illustration in the new edition still shows a
small diameter hose pushed into a drilled rubber plug. James, is this what you
used? If so, throw it out and get a 1" o.d. hose about 4' long. As far as I can
tell, this is impossible to plug and will not cause explosions from vigorous
fermentation.

Eric Allen asks about Bass Ale: I think your friends are on the right trail, but
too far past the fork in the road. 50% brown sugar is **WAY** too much. Martin
Lodahl seems to have a handle on using sugar to achieve a cidery effect, but I
don't think that's what's called for in Bass. My feeling from reading British
brewing texts is that they only use enough to substitute for the more expensive
malt while remaining undetectable in the finished beer. I definitely wouldn't
wander above 5-10% and would add plenty of crystal malt and a touch of roast
malt (chocolate) to help disguise the sugar.

Martin Lodahl: I tried adding turbinado sugar to a Scotch ale, myself, and
wasn't pleased with the result. In fact, I've yet to have a convincing
homebrewed Scotch ale, and suspect the wily northerners use a very aromatic malt
I haven't been able to track down. Your idea of using peat-smoked crystal malt
is an interesting one; I'd love to taste your beer.

Thomas Manteufel posted some early recipes including one that was mostly
molasses. I had the (?)fortune of tasting a similar beer that Fred Eckhardt
brewed from a George Washington recipe. I would imagine that vulcanized rubber
has a similar flavor. It was about five years old at the time, and Fred said it
had improved considerably over the years.

Thanks to George Fix for the usual amazingly informed words on wort oxidation.
At times, it embarrasses me to open my mouth around him (figuratively, of
course) because I'm sure I'll say something stupid. But George, how come there
are no spaces after your sentences?

There's a good deal of talk about repitching yeast. In a praiseworthy comment on
the importance of good sanitation, Bob Jones suggests that homebrewers lack the
capacity to wash yeast. In mid-September I posted some notes from WYeast's Dave
Logsdon on how to wash and store recaptured yeast; I hope everyone has gotten
that because its very simplicity makes it extremely useful.

Dave Resch mentions previous discussions about the use of Cara-pils or dextrine
malt and the conversion of the contained dextrins to simple sugars. My
understanding is that this is the whole point of dextrine malt--that mashing did
NOT affect this conversion. My experience has been that dextrine malts make a
significant difference in beers, heightening the malt flavor and increasing
mouthfeel considerably. Could we hear something authoritative, perhaps from
George Fix? Hint, hint.

Rick Hapanowicz asked about his fermentation problem. It's difficult to say what
happened, without more information about yeast, but I would imagine that the
initial problem had to do with either underpitching or a lack of oxygen in the
wort at the time of pitching. I don't think simple repitching would help, nor
that adding oxygen at this stage would be a good idea. My own suggestion would
be to brew another batch of beer, aerate the hell out of it, pitch with a
vigorous yeast starter, and then blend the two when fermentation in batch #2 was
at high krausen. Worth a try, anyway.

I follow with interest the discussions of coffee/beer. Liz has been after me to
make a coffee beer for awhile now, and we've been exploring the wonders of fine
coffee and espresso together.  Mostly, Liz does the drinking, since I'm a tea
man (but a cafe mocha, hmmm) but I'm fascinated by the process of making good
coffee and the differences in styles between the East and West. I shall root
around in the documentation I've found and see what they say about cold- and
hot-water extraction. Interesting that Rad Equipment's retailer offers a
cold-water "Turkish Extract"--since the Turkish method is to *boil* the coffee
grounds *with the sugar*! What do the coffee oils do to head retention in the
beer? ??


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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 91 21:32:25 CDT
From: Mark Sandrock <sandrock at aries.scs.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Saaz alpha acid content

> From: resch at craycos.com (David Resch)
> 
> >Saaz hops are fairly low alpha acid hops in the 3.5-4.0 percent range.  
> 
> Without having any information with me at work, I made this incorrect 
> statement in a digest reply yesterday.  When I got home, I looked up the alpha
> acid content of Saaz hops and found that it was a little higher than I thought.
> One reference listed Saaz as being in the 4-6% alpha acid range and a second 
> reference listed them as being about 5% alpha acid.

No, you were doing fine. I just bought Saaz "whole hop plugs" from Great
Fermentations of Marin, and they were labelled as 3.1 % alpha acid.  BTW,
the degree of compression obtained in these plugs is unbelievable! From
a package about the size of a pack of cigarettes (ugh!) I ended up with
a heaping colander full of whole hop blossoms!  The aroma was very good,
but I won't taste the results for several weeks yet.  (Czech Pilsner).

Cheers,
Mark Sandrock

- -- 
UIUC Chemical Sciences Computer Center	"Not every apple has a worm, but
505 S. Matthews Ave., Urbana, IL 61801	every worm has an apple!"
Voice:  217-244-0561
Internet:  sandrock at aries.scs.uiuc.edu

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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 91 22:37:35 -0700
From: John S. Watson - FSC <watson at pioneer.arc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Report on Number 23


This a report on my second use of "maltose" (a cheap rice malt
available from most Oriental Markets).   In the previous attempt
("Number 17", see HBD #541 or The Cat's Meow: p 36) there were
a few problems.  It was also my first attempt at 
culturing yeast (from a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale), and for various
reasons, it didn't work very well.  The other problem was
I used to much maltose, about 40%, which made the result
a little to light.

This time I decided to use about 20% maltose, which IMHO,
is just about right.  I've also since perfected yeast culturing.

The result is a nice thirst quenching, summer ale, 
which, with my favorite pizza, is heaven*2.

                 *    *    *

Ingredients for 5 gallons:

4.0 pounds plain light malt extract syrup  
1.1 (750 grams)  Maltose                  

0.66 oz Chinook Hops, flower, ( boil: 1/2 for 60 minutes, 1/2 for 30 minutes)
0.33 oz Cascade Hops, flower, ( finish: last 2 minutes of boil)
0.50 oz Cascade Hops, pellets, ( dry hopped: when transfered  to secondary )
Ale Yeast, cultured from Sierra Nevada Pale Ale,
Corn sugar (3/4 cup)  at bottling


Aug. 4, 1991   ... Culturing.
   Started  SNPA yeast culture (from 2 bottles) and about 4 tablespoons
   of plain light malt extract syrup and a couple hop pellets.

Aug. 11, 1991 ... Boil.
   Boiled major ingredients, ala "Complete Joy of Home Brewing",
   in 2 gallons of water.  Then combined with 3 gallons 
   of ice cold tap water (which was boiled the previous night,  
   and cooled in the freezer) in a 7 gallon carboy.
   Initial gravity: 
                     1.036 at 74 degrees F

   Since the temperature was cool enough, I pitched the yeast immediately.

Aug. 18, 1991 ... Secondary.  
   Vigorous fermentation over the week.
   Placed 0.5 oz of Cascade pellets at bottom of secondary,
   before I siphon in the beer.

Sept. 8, 1991 ... Bottling.  
   Final gravity:
          1.006  at  69 degrees F.
   Taste: Excellent!

   Yield = 49 12oz bottles 
         = 588 oz 

   Percentage Yield = 588/640 x 100% 
                    = 91.2%



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End of HOMEBREW Digest #747, 10/24/91
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