---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  STUFF (Jack Schmidling)
  RE: Welding Stainless (can)
  Homebrew laws & Best fermentation volume (Marc Tamsky)
  Grolsch-type bottles (Robin Garr)
  Hops (John_D._Sullivan.wbst311)
  Re: Grolsch-oid bottles (John DeCarlo)
  sanitation (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Who has brewed a hot-pepper beer? (Scott Knowles                       )
  jack, grolsch (Russ Gelinas)
  Re: Stovetop burning (not stuffing) (Jay Hersh)
  Re: Grolsch-oid bottles (ingr!b11!mspe5!guy)
  Rotting Garbage?!? (Richard Stueven)
  Re:  Grolsch-oid bottles (Jason Goldman)
  re skunks/worms (Chip Hitchcock)
  "cider"? (Chip Hitchcock)
  Re: SS Fabrication (larryba)
  Amstel taste-alike? ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  off flavor (CCL-L) <wboyle at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
  Applejack (Ted Stefanik)
  Miller's Book (night)
  Re: Where to get a deal on carboys in Chicago?
  Re:  Grolsch-oid bottles (Vijay Vaidyanathan)
  RE: Homebrew Digest #751 (October 30, 1991) (Progress Through Tradition  30-Oct-1991 0850)
  Lack of carbonation? (Richard.E.Brown)
  coriander beer (Scott Murphy)
  Bitter and better... (Tom Dimock)
  RE: Homebrew Digest #751 (October 30, 1991) (Dave Rose)
  Bottles of skunks and cans of worms  (Jay Hersh)
  Glass and UV (wbt)
  Honey Basil Ale (Bryan Gros)
  Re: Grolsch bottles (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Various Topics (John Hartman)
  Light and Bitter (Andy Leith)
  Wanted Fuller's ESB Recipe (Paul Emerson)
  Pumpkin Advice Needed (ASMITH)
  Pumpkin Advice Needed (Albert Smith on Wed, Oct 30, 1991  4:43 PM)


Send submissions to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues!]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Oct 91 22:35 CST
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: STUFF

 
 
 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling
 
 From: Bob Hettmansperger <Bob_Hettmansperger at klondike.bellcore.com>
 Subject:  Re: EASYMASH
 
 <In all seriousness, I'd really be interested in a beginners guide to all 
 grain brewing (with or without momilies).  I'm getting to the point where I'd 
 like to try, but havn't been able to get my ct together yet.
 
 Stand by!  Soon to be released......  "MASH IT AT HOME", by JSP
 
 You will of course have had to absored "BREW IT AT HOME" first.
 
               {AVAILABLE AT LIBRARIES EVERYWHERE}
                   (non-commercial disclaimer)
 
 >Subject: WYeast Bavarian Wheat--No Head Starter
 
 General trivia question....  how does one pronounce WYeast?
 
 From: Jeff Frane <70670.2067 at compuserve.com>
 
 Subject: Naked Ambition
 
   {Read: Naked Aggression}
 
 Naked Aggression that is, Against the Mush Brained Masses that people like 
 you are freightening away from our hobby.
 
 >To Jack Schmidling: The problem with enamel cookpots isn't just the handles
 falling off--which I'd never heard of before discovering this crowd--but the
 fact that enamel is crap, and quickly cracks through to the metal--which 
 rusts.
 
 Perfect example of NAAMBM.  You leave the nervous, tentative beginner with 
 two choices: spend $150 for a SS pot or drink Bud.
 
 For what my numb-tongue opinion is worth, when I dis-interred my enammel pot 
 after ten years of storage, it did indeed have some rust spots.  In fact, 
 some so serious that I check for leaks before boiling.  Needless to say, I 
 will get a new one but I as have boiled hundreds of gallons of maple syrup, 
 hundreds of fish boils and now that it is rusty about a dozen batches of 
 beer, I can't help but chuckle at your comments.
 
 >The main problem with using the kitchen stove for brewing is damage to the
 stove. Pots which overhang the burners or lap between two burners, reflect 
 heat downward onto the enamel surface of the stove--which seems to be very 
 hard on the enamel.
 
 Right!  Now the guy who is hesitant about getting into beer making, must 
 consider a $200 brew stove.
 
 >I think you should also do a little reading about wort chillers; you seem to 
 be under the misapprehension that it has to do with "clearing", by which I 
 presume you're referring to some form of cold break.
 
 Perhaps you should do a little reading of the HBD.  I concluded after reading 
 a number of articles posted by people who seemed to know what they were 
 talking about, that chilling forces various things that tend to stay in 
 suspension without it, to sink during secondary fermentation and promotes 
 better clearing.
 
 If this is incorrect, I will not promote its use, as I have already concluded 
 that worrying about contamination during the cooling period is, if not a 
 momily, at least not worth worrying the beginner with.
 
 >You find plenty of documentation elsewhere about the desirability of boils 
 longer than one hour, and I needn't go into them here.
 
 I said a "minimal one hour boil".  You know, like nominal.  I also said I 
 started with 7 gals and boiled down to 5 at one gal per hour.  That's at 
 least two.
 
 >If I may say so, I feel that your desire to make brewing beer easy and
 inexpensive is commendable, but it seems at times that you are more 
 interested in hastily debunking traditional brewing practices than in 
 achieving this goal.
 
 It's all part of the learning process.  How can I simplify a process without 
 questioning the accepted methodologies?
 
 >(Take note of someone like George Fix, who is applying real scientific
 methodology to homebrewing.) 
 
 As someone once said: Mr Schmidling, you're no George Fix!
 
 >Quick and easy isn't always the answer; sometimes all you get is instant 
 coffee.
 
 You seem to forget that lot's of people like or at least drink instant 
 coffee.  I suspect many homebrewers would have been happy to end up with 
 instant coffee instead of beer that they had to throw away or never even made 
 because of  NAAMB.
 
 >And please note Dick Dunn's comment in re: oxidation and cardboard (not 
 cider) and the excellent commentary from Rad Equipment and JaH.
 
 And just what do I do with the "excellent commentaries" that claim that 
 oxidation produces cidery beer?
 ................
 
 Kudos to Mark Montgomery for info on 10 gal SS kettle.  I phoned in my order 
 and hopefully my next batch will be rust free.
 
 js
 

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 30 Oct 91 07:40:00 -0500
From: can at linus.mitre.org
Subject: RE: Welding Stainless
Full-Name: Christopher A. Nissen


Although Tom Dimock comments in HD750 that you need a MIG welder to weld
stainless, he is presenting the picture that one cannot do it at home
without a MIG.  In fact, it can be done using a couple of propane
torches, a little silver solder, and the proper flux (designed for silver
solder).  I recently used such an arrangement to install a spigot in the
bottom of my 15.5 gallon ss kettle (a.k.a. half-barrel that never made
it back to the Bush factory).  I also supplemented the rivits I use to
hold the stainless rod handles on the kettle with a small application of
silver solder.  I have carried this kettle around the basement with
10 gallons of boiling water and never doubted the strength of the handles.

Likewise, the spigot on the bottom of the kettle has never failed me in
any way.  Granted, a MIG welder is what the "pros" use, and it IS required
for applications where the stainless is thick or has an extremely large
load bearing requirement, but for the small homebrewer, I have found that 
silver solder works fine.

One comment is that you need to get the stainless RED hot with the silver
solder approach, and this is best accomplished using two propane torches; on
both sides of the material (ask a friend to help). 

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 30 Oct 91 04:41:10 PST
From: 2121dtam%ucsbuxa at hub.ucsb.edu (Marc Tamsky)
Subject: Homebrew laws & Best fermentation volume

First Question:

I know there are laws in California governing the amounts that an individual
can produce. (i.e. Head of household 200 gal or individuals 100 per year.)

What are the age requirements to homebrew?  Is it legal to ferment your own
alcoholic beverages under the legal drinking age in your state?

Second Question:

When fermenting in a 5 gal. glass carboy whats the best volume to ferment with?

I want to leave enough room for the head. I fear that the yeast will stop
working because of the high alcohol concentration if I have a low-volume
ferment.

I know this isn't a FAQ but, is this dumb?
Are the alcohol concentrations in a primary ferment not even close to
the max working concentrations for yeast?

BTW I used the ale yeast that came with a Mountmellick Export Ale kit.
I fermented with about 3.5gal and added the rest when racking to the secondary.
After 1.5 weeks in secondary, I primed with 1 cup corn sugar and bottled.
3 weeks later the batch still has a sugary taste but carbonation is ok.

Any ideas?

=  Marc Tamsky    6600dtam at ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu   6600dtam at UCSBUXA (bitnet)  =

Return to table of contents


Date: 30 Oct 91 07:42:15 EST
From: Robin Garr <76702.764 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Grolsch-type bottles

In Digest No. 751, Don Karon asks:
 
>Has anyone experienced any problems using resealable bottles
>like the ones Grolsch comes in?  Before I go out and drink
>40 Grolsch's I wanted to make sure this was indeed a clever
>idea.
 
Sure! Just make sure that the rubber gaskets haven't dried out or cracked.
Inexpensive replacements are widely available from homebrew-supply shops.
 
I use a lot of Fischer Bitter d'Alsace bottles, which are "flip-top"
containers like Grolsch but boast three (3) significant advantages:
 
* The bottles are heavy brown glass.
 
* They hold 22 ounces, enough for me to split the brews with my wife along our
usual 20:2 ratio. :-)
 
* I find the beer marginally more pleasurable to dispose of responsibly than
Grolsch. Avoid the Fischer AMBER d'Alsace, though; it's an unpleasant potion
indeed.
 
Say, Don, I see by your "handle" that you're a CompuServe member. Have you
dropped by the Wine (and Beer) Forum? Check us out at GO BEER.
 
 
Robin Garr        |  "I have enjoyed great health at a great age because
Associate Sysop   |  every day since I can remember I have consumed a bottle
CompuServe        |  of wine except when I have not felt well.  Then I have
Wine/Beer Forum   |  consumed two bottles."  -- A Bishop of Seville
76702.764 at compuserve.com
 



Return to table of contents


Date: 	Wed, 30 Oct 1991 05:27:41 PST
From: John_D._Sullivan.wbst311 at xerox.com
Subject: Hops

I would like some information on where to acquire some hops root cuttings,
particularly Saaz, Cascade, and Fuggles. I realize this is probably an untimely
question but we are getting booted off of your excellent DL soon.

It's been fun while it lasted,
John

Return to table of contents


Date: Wednesday, 30 Oct 1991 08:32:22 EST
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re: Grolsch-oid bottles

>From: don karon <72730.103 at compuserve.com>

>Has anyone experienced any problems using resealable bottles
>like the ones Grolsch comes in?  Before I go out and drink
>40 Grolsch's I wanted to make sure this was indeed a clever
>idea.

I find them easy to bottle in, easy to open, and easy to reseal
when only drinking half a bottle of beer.  Wish I had more, but
am not willing to drink Grolsch to get them.  Also wish the brown
glass bottles were more prevalent.

The only caveat is that the rubber gaskets get worn and dried out
with age, so you need to keep a replacement supply on hand.
Also, be sure to sanitize those gaskets along with the rest of
the bottle.

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
           (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 29 Oct 91 13:47:49 -0800
From: hpcsos.col.hp.com!hplabs!ihlpl!korz at hp-col.col.hp.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: sanitation


Sorry for this being so late a post, but there was a clog somewhere in
the path and I only received 744, 745 and 747 today.

Martin writes:
>> Not to mention the illustration on how to start a siphon!  Aaaagh!  Get
>> your mouth off that, Dave!
>
>I wonder about this.  I've never tried any other way, and the only
>three batches I've ever had with any symptom of infection at all
>have all been directly traceable to the yeast used (dry, in all
>cases).  I personally am not inclined to view it as a problem.
>
Chris writes:
>(The heretic) Marc Rouleau <mer6g at fuggles.acc.Virginia.EDU> writes:
>
>Marc> Last spring I also stopped using bleach.  I don't sanitize anything.
>Marc> Ordinary kitchen cleanliness standards (get the big chunks off!) have
>Marc> been sufficient for me.  I don't keep my beer around for more than a
>Marc> few months though -- I don't know if it would keep for a year or more.
>
>This is fantastic -- it's great to hear all the old myths deflated!
>
>On the sanitation issue itself -- not the idea of iconoclasm -- it makes
>sense that if the wort is boiled, it's clean; the yeast-cake carboy must be
>too, and if you keg in a just-emptied keg, it too is clean (besides, at
>this point the alcohol should help prevent infections).

I think that Marc has hit the nail on the head: "I don't keep my beer
around for more than a few months though..."  I am quite confident that
if you finish your beer in a few months, you can be sloppy in your
sanitation techniques.  I use the "fill the siphon hose with hot water"
method, but have been salivating over the Cole-Palmer catalog in
anticipation of purchasing a peristaltic pump (hose pump).

Since there are a lot of beginners reading this forum, I think that
recommending sloppy sanitation is an invitation to brew lactic acid.
Results like that may turn off a lot of potential brewers.  It's not
that hard to use bleach solution and rinse well (I've taken to rinsing
with hot tapwater and then cheap beer, but that's another story) and
the benefits have been documented numerous times.

Al.
korz at ihlpl.att.com


Return to table of contents


Date:    Wed, 30 Oct 91 10:02 EST
From: Scott Knowles <NECHO%NCSUMVS.BITNET at ncsuvm.cc.ncsu.edu>
Subject: Who has brewed a hot-pepper beer?

Hiya,
   Does anyone have experience brewing spicy beer?  The idea is
not as odd as it might seem; I'm familiar with one commercial brand
called "Cajun Beer" that is quite peppery and very tasty.  To get
a feel for how good the combination can be, trying sipping one of
your own light/medium ales while nibbling on a chili or jalopeno....

   The heat and flavor of peppers varys greatly.  I'm familiar
enough with a halfdozen varieties to use them judiciously in
cooking, but I just can't predict how they might behave in a brew.
Experimentation is obviously in order, but I welcome the advice
of peppermeisters.

  To save bandwidth, plese reply directly to me, and I'll post a
summary of response to BEER-L.

Scott   <nECHO at ncsumvs>

Return to table of contents


Date:    Wed, 30 Oct 1991 10:25:20 -0500 (EST)
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: jack, grolsch

   I'd like to throw in a comment about Jack S. and his video, and then
 maybe we can go on to more interesting stuff.  It seems to me, that
we (and he) are missing an important distinction.  There is a vast difference
between how you brew your *own* beer and how you tell others to brew *their*
beer.  As the beer judges on the list have pointed out, people perceive
flavors (or defects) differently.  You may actually *like* the taste of 
oxidized beer, or may not even be able to notice it, while it may make a 
beer undrinkable to me.  So *you* can go right ahead and not worry about 
introducing O2 into your brew, while *I* should take precautions against it.
The problem, Jack, is that you are making a how-to video, for general
consumption, so to speak, of a wide range of people, with all the inherent 
differences in their tasting perceptions.  Cardboard flavor from oxidation 
is a well documentated fact, even if you have never tasted it.  I'm not sure 
I have, but I don't want to, so I take the precautions against it.  If you're 
not just out to make a quick buck, and you really want to help people make 
good beer, then your *demonstrated* technique should impart a minimum of 
off flavors.  Brew your own beer any way you like.

`Nuff of that.  Grolsch bottles are great, for whoever asked.  You might
need to replace the rubber gasket from time to time.  Fischer bottles are
good too, and they're bigger, although some have said they are too thin and
tend to break. I've never had any problems with them.

I've been drinking my latest, a stout, and I get a headache from it.  I was
going to ask some questions about it, but I just realized that this is the
first batch in a new 7-gallon carboy, and it did not blow-off!  All my other
batches were in 5-gallons c's and blew off crud.  This is the only batch
that has ever given me headaches.  Cause and effect?  Momily?  Or a case
where an individual is susceptible to something (fusel alcohol-induced
headaches) and should use techniques to avoid it, while others who are not
susceptible may not have to worry about it?  You decide......

Longwindedly yours,
Russ Gelinas
OPAL/ESP
UNH

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 30 Oct 91 10:39:50 EST
From: Jay Hersh <hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Stovetop burning (not stuffing)


Hey here's a "momily" from the HBD distant past.
It works real well, so looks like Mom knew something after all.

If you take a wet soapy sponge and wipe down the enamel surface of the stove
before you start to brew, and spills that cook onto the enamel come off A LOT
easier. 

My guess is that the soap creates a film between the enamel and any gunk you
spill on it, but only Mom knows the way this reall works.

 - JaH (staff member of MRL, Mom's Research Lab)


- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopfen und Malz, Gott erhalts


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 30 Oct 91 9:25:33 CST
From: ingr!ingr!b11!mspe5!guy at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Re: Grolsch-oid bottles

In HBD 751, don karon writes:

> Has anyone experienced any problems using resealable bottles
> like the ones Grolsch comes in?  Before I go out and drink
> 40 Grolsch's I wanted to make sure this was indeed a clever
> idea.

    I have 45 of them at this time and I absolutely love them.  They currently
contain my Christmas beer and I use them to bottle stouts in as well.  For me,
16 oz. is a better size serving of my homebrew than 12 oz. and the fact that
I don't have to cap them makes bottling easier.  I have used them 4 or 5 times
without replacing the gaskets.  None of them show signs of wearing out yet.
I got most of mine by drinking Grolsch but a couple of friends contributed 6 or
so.  You could do well by going to a bar where Grolsch is served in the swing
top bottles and ask them to save you some.  A friend of mine went to a local
Irish pub and got a dozen on his first trip this way.  Free.  The only thing
wrong with my Grolsch bottles is that there aren't 45 *more* of them!  I seem
to recall someone mentioning in this forum that there was a place in Canada (I
think) that sold new Grolsch-style bottles that were brown instead of green.
Would someone post the address/phone number of this place, if it exists, along
with pricing information?

- -- 
==============================================================================
 Guy D. McConnell, Systems Engineer |            |"All that is gold does not
 Intergraph Corp.  Mail Stop CR1105 |     My     | glitter, not all those who
 Huntsville, AL. 35894-0001         |  opinions  | wander are lost, the old
 Computer and Storage Technology    |  are just  | that is strong does not
 Evaluation  Group                  |  exactly   | wither, and deep roots are
 uunet!ingr.com!b11!mspe5!guy       |    that.   | not touched by the frost."
 (205)730-6289   FAX (205)730-6011  |            |                   J.R.R.T.
==============================================================================


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 30 Oct 91 07:58:41 PST
From: Richard.Stueven at Corp.Sun.COM (Richard Stueven)
Subject: Rotting Garbage?!?

We brewed a batch of Dave Line's Newcastle Brown recipe on Sunday.
When I got home from work yesterday afternoon, our apartment was filled
with the smell of rotting garbage!  A bit of olfactory detective work
determined that the odor was coming not from the trash can, but from
the bubbling airlock.  Near the fermenter, the smell was strong enough
to make your eyes water.

Not that I'm worried, see, but what might that smell be?  I suspect
it's DMS-related, because there's a big "sulfur dioxide" component.
Any ideas?

thx
gak

Richard Stueven       AHA# 22584 |----------| You talk to me about picking up
Internet:       gak at Corp.Sun.COM |----GO----| the slack, then you turn around
ATTMAIL:         ...!attmail!gak |---SHARX--| and stab me right in the back...
Cow Palace: Sec 107 Row F Seat 8 |----------| Talk Is Cheap.

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 30 Oct 91 09:20:41 -0700
From: Jason Goldman <jason at gibson.sde.hp.com>
Subject: Re:  Grolsch-oid bottles

don karon <72730.103 at compuserve.com> writes:
> Subject: Grolsch-oid bottles

> Has anyone experienced any problems using resealable bottles
> like the ones Grolsch comes in?  Before I go out and drink
> 40 Grolsch's I wanted to make sure this was indeed a clever
> idea.

For the last year or two I have been using swing-top bottles
exclusively for my beer.  You may need to replace the gaskets,
but your homebrew supply shop should have replacement gaskets.
Knowing when to replace them is easy, if the rubber is hardening
and cracking, dump them.

They make bottling easier because they are larger and quicker to
cap.

Jason
jason at gibson.sde.hp.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 30 Oct 91 11:00:21 EST
From: cjh at vallance.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: re skunks/worms

   Your argument that most light-based reactions are driven by UV rather
than visible light \\may// be accurate; I never spent enough time on
photochemistry (when I was a practicing chemist) to have an overall
grasp of the field. Certainly sunburn (the light reaction people are most
likely to be familiar with) is driven by UV.
   HOWEVER, skunkiness in beer has been specifically pinned down to a
photolysis of hop extracts at ~525nm; this is well within visible light
(~450-~750nm). The rap on green glass is that it blocks light at >~550nm,
so it's useless to prevent this reaction.
   Note that this doesn't totally invalidate your sun&fluorescent-vs-
 -incandescent argument. Incandescents give off ~93% of their energy as
heat, and what little comes out as light is mostly the adjacent (longer
visible) wavelengths; the standard filter or coating to make incandescent
light imitate sunlight is a metallic blue, and the converters for shooting
outdoors with indoor film are correspondingly orange. Fluorescent lights
probably don't give off \much/ UV (cheap glass doesn't pass UV very well),
but they do spread further up the range of visible light. So sunlight and
fluorescents will harm beer in green glass faster than incandescent light
will---but I wouldn't assume incandescent is \safe/.

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 30 Oct 91 11:02:28 EST
From: cjh at vallance.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: "cider"?

   At least one state (Connecticut?) used to define juice as being
pressed in a room with a non-dirt (e.g., concrete) floor and screens
on the windows---this from a turnaround in the language that treated
"cider" as vulgar (from usually being alcoholic, cf UK English?) and
"juice" as suitable for [Ss]ociety.

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon Oct 28 13:28:13 1991
From: microsoft!larryba at cs.washington.edu
Subject: Re: SS Fabrication

I asked a buddy of mine how hard it was to weld SS (and more to the point,
could he do it with his TIG welder).  He said the way to go is to silver
solder.  It can be done with a regular blow torch, is food safe and
most important, it is very easy to do and control.  The cost of the silver
solder is nominal compared to the cost of a wire feed TIG welder... or
hiring someone who owns one.

Anyone know of any reason why this wouldn't be a good idea?  The only thing
I can think of is long term galvanic corrosion at the silver/SS interface.



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 30 Oct 91 11:35:00 EDT
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu>
Subject: Amstel taste-alike?

My wife's favorite beer is Amstel Light (I tend to prefer things more
like Sam Adams Boston Lager, Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, and Guinness Stout).
In order to keep her support for my brewing (and to reduce overall beer
costs for the household), I'd like to try brewing something as close to
Amstel as possible.  One caveat: I have never done a lager.  I do have an
extra fridge, but I'm not sure (without buying an AirStat) I can set it
to a good lagering temperature.  Any ideas?

=Spencer W. Thomas 		HSITN, U of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 48109
spencer at med.umich.edu		313-747-2778


Return to table of contents


Date:     Wed, 30 Oct 91 11:31:10 EST
From: William Boyle (CCL-L) <wboyle at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:  off flavor

   I have a slight problem, two of my last three batches have turned out
with a, as my brew partner calls it, "bandaid" flavor, I think it's a
bitter flavor but not a hop bitterness.  The recipe was:

     1 can of yellow dog
     1/2 lb of crystal malt
     1 lb of amber dme
     .75 oz of cascade hops AA=5.7, 1 hour boil
     Wyeast London yeast #1028

   We fermented in my basement which is about 67 to 69 degrees F during
the summer (this was last May).  The beer was in the primary for three
days, at that point it had a strong off smell, two weeks in the
secondary and then we bottled.  I thought it may have been infected but
last week I had a bottle and the flavor and mellowed but was still there.
There were no gushers, it may have been under carbonated if anything.  I
thought the flavor may be due to the low hop rate, so I made some hop tea
and added some to a bottle it seemed to help a little.

   The next batch was made on 10-23 with the recipe as follows:
     1 can of American Eagle unhopped
     1 lb of amber dme
     1.25 oz cascade hops AA=5.7, 1 hour boil
     Wyeast American #1056

   It was in the primary for 5 days and during racking we smelled the
same thing as the other batch.  The temperature was around 69-70 degrees
F.

  Does anybody have any idea were this smell/taste can be coming from
and/or how I can fix this.  Any advise or comments will be greatly
appreciated.

                                        B^2

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 30 Oct 91 11:25:46 -0500
From: ted at evi.com (Ted Stefanik)
Subject: Applejack

My references define applejack differently than the last few to mention it.
Therefore, let me set the record straight.

I'll pick up with Jay Hersh's definitions (USA usage) and complete them:

Juice:        Filtered apple juice
Cider:        Unfiltered apple juice (sometimes called soft cider)
Hard Cider:   Fermented cider
Apple Wine:   Fermented cider or juice with lots of additional sugar added.
Apple Brandy: Distilled hard cider or apple wine.  This is heat distillation.
Applejack:    Hard cider which has been fortified through fractional
              crystalization (freezing out the water).

Applejack and Apple Brandy are supposedly two very different things.  Apple
Brandy contains only the volatile components of the fermentation product,
while Applejack contains the entire result concentrated.  Supposedly it
can give you a hangover much easier.

To quote from Chad Epifanio (who got it right):
     By the way, I am under the impression that "Apple Jack" was an old
     method to condense the cider; i.e. the finished cider is allowed to 
     freeze, a hole is punched in the ice cover, and the underlying contents
     siphoned into a waiting carboy.  This process is repeated until the
     liquid no longer freezes.  A primative distillation perhaps.

By the way, the US government views any sort of purification of alcohol in the
same light, so it is just as illegal to make Applejack as to make Apple Brandy.

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 30 Oct 91 08:46:08 -0800
From: night at mapme7.map.tek.com
Subject: Miller's Book


Jeff Frane writes:

>Miller seems to think that beginning brewers will be most familiar with
>Bud-style beers. My own experience teaching beginning brewing has been that--in
>this area, anyway--new brewers are familiar with microbreweries and imported
>beers and are interested in brewing something like BridgePort or Widmer or ...
>Miller is, I believe, from the St. Louis area and his experiences are no doubt
>different.

I cannot agree with you more.  It seems that Miller's approach is that home-
brewers WANT to brew beer like BUD.  It is also apparent that he enjoys
light lagers himself, and thus puts more effort into the lager sections in 
his books.

	However, just because he likes light lagers doesn't mean he can't
give excellent advice on brewing.  On the other hand, I'm not saying Miller's
books are better than any others either.  My point was that several people
stated blatantly wrong information about Miller's book.  I felt that everyone
who is interested should have the right to know that those things simply
were not true.

Okay, another subject:


Has anyone tried canning wort in jars so to sterilize and preserve it for
future use in making yeast cultures?  How did it work? Does the extreme 
temperatures and pressures of canning effect the taste enough that a starter
would off flavor you next batch?

And... one more subject...

I would agree that Red Star Ale yeast gives a definite estery flavor to a 
batch of beer.  However, I now use the Red Star yeast and brew at 58F.  This
seems to almost completely eliminate the esters produced by the yeast.  So,
with this information... I can brew styles that benefit from esters at a 
warmer temperature... and other styles with no esters at lower temperatures.

Has anyone else experienced this?  How about with other brands of yeast?
Is there any published information on yeast's different fermentation 
characteristics at different temperatures?

Cheers!

Mark Nightingale                       night at tekig7.map.tek.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1991 12:38:30 -0500 (EST)
From: George Gerhard Mueller <gm10+ at andrew.cmu.edu>

>   A desire for Bass Pale Ale led me to the Cat's Meow.  A recipe titled
>   "Bass Ale" (A big zero on the originality index) on page 25 is
>   as follows:
> 
>      6 to 7 lbs pale malt (2-row)
>      1 lb crystal
>      1 pound demarara or dark brown sugar
>      1 ounce Northern Brewer (1 hour boil)
>      1 ounce Fuggles (boil 30 minutes)
>      1/2 ounce Fuggles (steeped 15 minutes)
>      ale yeast
> 
>   Has anyone tried this potion?
> 
>   I'm considering replacing the 1 pound of dark brown sugar with 2 ounces
>   of molasses - comments?
>
This is very similar to one I tried when attempting to replicate Wadworths 
6X with the help of Dave Line's "Brew Beers Like Those You Know"(?). It was 
very good: dark, rich and strong with a brownish head.
The sugar will make a difference, demarara imparts a lighter taste and 
colour to dark brown. I used light brown sugar and it was still noticable. 
If you use molasses I suspect the colour and taste will remain but the beer 
will be weaker, which may be what you want.
I used Fuggles for the copper and Goldings for late; no dry hops. I also 
used too much of them, nearly 3 oz each. But I think the quantities given 
above may be too little, I'd go for 1.5 or even 2 oz each. I take it it's a 
4 gallon batch?
Subject: Re: Where to get a deal on carboys in Chicago?
In-Reply-To: <digest.Ud3FMke00Ukc80hV06 at andrew.cmu.edu>
References: <9110290800.AA06181 at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com>
	<digest.Ud3FMke00Ukc80hV06 at andrew.cmu.edu>

Here Here to another first time post....

I recently called around to find glass carboys and was able to find
several smaller drinking water supply companies that were willing to
sell a few of theirs for 8 to 10 dollars.    My recomendation to anyone
interested in glass carboys is to go through the local yellow pages and
call the companies that sell drinking water....    i.e. look under WATER
 or WATER DISTRIBUTERS.   I found out that the bigger companies such as
Polar use the platic containers so start off by calling the smaller,
less known ones.

 -Bueller

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 30 Oct 91 09:28:22 PST
From: zycad!yoda!vijay at Sun.COM (Vijay Vaidyanathan)
Subject: Re:  Grolsch-oid bottles

When I was in NY I used *only* Grolsch bottles, and have never had
a problem. The only possible problem that may arise is that the
rubber washers wear our, but you can easily get replacement rubber
washers at most homebrew stores - and they are reasonably priced.

They were relatively easy to come by in NY because of the
recycling movement. When I moved to CA, I returned all the Grolsch
bottles at 5 cents a piece, since I assumed that they would be as
easy to get here. Imagine my dismay when I was told that recycling
these bottles were considered *illegal* in CA (in violation of
some recycling guidelines), and therefore impossible to obtain! I
wish I'd hung on to my cases of Grolsch! I honestly believe that
this has put a damper on my brewing.

 - Vijay
- -------
zycad!vijay at sun.com
- -------


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 30 Oct 91 09:49:22 PST
From: Progress Through Tradition 30-Oct-1991 0850 <donham at wheel.enet.dec.com>
Subject: RE: Homebrew Digest #751 (October 30, 1991)


>Date: 30 Oct 91 01:40:25 EST
>From: don karon <72730.103 at compuserve.com>
>Subject: Grolsch-oid bottles
>
>Has anyone experienced any problems using resealable bottles
>like the ones Grolsch comes in?  Before I go out and drink
>40 Grolsch's I wanted to make sure this was indeed a clever
>idea.


I've had mixed results from Grolsch swing-tops. I used about 10 for my last 
batch, and so far have had one under-carbonated and one completely flat. I did 
*not* have new gaskets for them; I used what came on the bottle, though they 
appeared to be in good shape.

I've purchased some new gaskets from my local supplier and will try again with 
the current batch. I think that the new rubber will make a big difference.

Regards,

Perry Donham

Return to table of contents


Date: 30 Oct 91 12:49:58 EST
From: Richard.E.Brown at Dartmouth.EDU
Subject: Lack of carbonation?

I'm fairly new to homebrewing.  I have brewed and sampled three batches of
fairly simple ales from extract.  The first was really good, and had good
carbonation, a good head, etc.  The next two batches were quite tasty, but
lacked the carbonation and head of the first batch.  All have been primed with
3/4 CUP of corn sugar in five gallons.

What factors could cause this less-than-impressive carbonation? Thanks!

Rich Brown

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 30 Oct 91 10:02:02 PST
From: scott at gordian.com (Scott Murphy)
Subject: coriander beer

My roommate and I brewed a coriander beer a couple of months ago.
Initially, it was undrinkable due to an intense bitterness in the 
aftertase.  Being hopelessly optimistic, we decide to wait before
fertilizing our garden.  After a month in the bottle, the bitterness
went away but the coriander was no where to be seen.  I tried a 
bottle during the seventh game of the series and WOW, coriander.  The
beer has a spicey, gingery finish with the tiniest hint of sourness.
Its gotten quite good.

I don't have the recipe but it is an extract of Alexanders pale malt.
We colored the beer by soaking crystal malt and roast barley in
a quart of hot water each, mixing the liquids to get a reddish color.
Now that the beer has cleared, it is a beautiful deep red.

We spiced the beer at bottling time with an extract made from Vodka
and about 1/2 tsp of coarsly crushed coriander seeds.  I let the 
coriander sit in the Vodka for about a week.  

Looking back on it, I would heat the extract before adding it to the
beer in an attempt to drive of the alcohol.  I wonder if this is 
where the bitterness came from...


Slainte'

Return to table of contents


Date:         Wed, 30 Oct 91 13:02:45 EST
From: Tom Dimock <RGG at CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:      Bitter and better...

I'd like to second Caitrin Lynch's request for a Hook Norton Best Bitter
recipe, and would add a request for a recipe for their stronger brew
Old Hooky.  I learned (not hard!) to love both of these beers while
a guest at the Butcher's Arms Inn in Woolhope, England.  A charming
place in a 15th century building where the ceiling beams in the pub
were just about at the level of my nose!  I guess people weren't six
foot two back then!

To Jack: The reason I'm trying to learn to recognize subtle flaws in
beer is not "to learn to dislike them".  What I'm aiming at is to be
able to be able to identify the flaws in a very good beer, so that
next time I can come a little closer to making a GREAT beer.  I have
no idea whether I'll succeeed, but I figure I have a much better chance
at a great beer if know why my current batch isn't great than if I just
keep changing random factors, hoping someday I'll get it right.
Probably an artifact of a scientifically oriented upbringing combined
with a strong perfectionist streak, but that's why I do it.  My fathers
favorite aphorism (he had lots) was:

  Good, better best,
  Never let it rest,
  Till your good is better,
  And your better's best.

Knowing the difference is an essential part of the process (for me at
least).

Return to table of contents


Date:    Wed, 30 Oct 1991 13:30:58 EST
From: CHOLM at HUBIO2.HARVARD.EDU (Dave Rose)
Subject: RE: Homebrew Digest #751 (October 30, 1991)

	Hello.  I have just cultured some Chimay yeast and I am interested
in trying to brew a Trappist-type Belgian Ale.  Miller has one recipe in
his book, but I am interested in hearing about others.  Anyone had any
experience with Chimay yeast or Trappist ales?  Thanks.
						Dave Rose.
					CHOLM at HUBIO at .HARVARD.EDU

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 30 Oct 91 14:37:17 EST
From: Jay Hersh <hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu>
Subject: Bottles of skunks and cans of worms 


Daniel Butler-Ehle sez:

>The large output of UV is the primary distinction between light from
>such sources as fluorescent lights and the Sun and light from weaker
>UV producers like incandesent light.  This is evidenced in the
>phenomena Jay Hersh reported to us a few days ago:  (HBD #749)
>
>  "most if not all green and clear bottled beers get light damaged
>   (this can happen as fast as 45 minutes in sunlight or artifical [sic]
>   light like flourescents [sic] seen in beer coolers worldwide) and the
>   damage is so prevelant [sic] that it is difficult to get non-light
>   damaged beers."


OK you don't have to include the [sic]. I think by now everyone knows my typing
skills suck. Geez it's not like I'm illiterste or omethink... :-)

No if memory serves me correctly it IS a visible wavelength that causes the
damage. I can't recall off the top of my head, but I do know the Zymurgy
Troubleshooting issue discusses this. I think there is also a section in The
Practical Brewer by the Master Brewers Assoc of America. George Fix's book may
also have somethiung on this.

 - JaH

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopfen und Malz, Gott erhalts


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 30 Oct 91 14:37:20 EST
From: wbt at cbema.att.com
Subject: Glass and UV

Daniel Butler-Ehle wrote:
 
> Well the truth to the issue never received much attention.  Sunglasses,
> especially glass ones, naturally reflect most UV.  
 
> What's this got to do with beer?  What's true for glass lenses is true
> for glass bottles.  The color of the bottle affects only the visible
> light. (That's why it has color in the first place.)

Yes and no.  What you're overlooking is that the color comes from
ingredients in the glass; blue from cobalt, for instance, and that the
effect we see in the visible spectrum may only be the tip of the iceberg.
How does cobalt affect the UV spectrum?  I don't know, but it's reasonable
to guess that clear, brown, and green glass have different
reflection/absorption/transmission characteristics in other spectra besides
visible light.

> Glass, regardless of color, stops most UV.

So why do I have to buy a special UV filter for my camera, which has a
glass lens? (I'm not being a smart-ass, either; maybe you're right, in 
which case I'm being ripped off.)  Also, why does the dashboard of my car
become slowly faded and cracked from (I'm told) UV exposure, despite
having the windshield above it?

> Therefore, beer in brown bottles should be no
> more or less susceptible to light damage than beer in green or even clear
> bottles.
> 
> Any comments?  I ain't no physicist, so I'd like to hear from someone who
> knows.  We got any opticians out there?

Who needs those creeps, just ask an engineer!  8-)  Take your favorite
beer, and transfer three bottles worth into one each blue, green, and brown
glass bottles.  Place in bright sun for 45 minutes (with caps on)
then taste.  They'll all be flat, of course, but the skunk odor should be
distinct enough that it won't matter, right?

 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Bill Thacker	AT&T Network Systems - Columbus      wbt at cbnews.att.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 30 Oct 91 12:11:16 PST
From: bgros at sensitivity.berkeley.edu (Bryan Gros)
Subject: Honey Basil Ale

I was in a local brewpub (Bison Brewing) recently and they were
serving a Honey Basil Ale.  It was very good, medium bodied, with
just a lingering hint of Basil after swallowing.  I was considering
trying to reproduce this beer and am soliciting suggestions from
more experienced folks. 

My first recipe might look something like:

   6 lbs pale malt
   1 lb wheat malt
   8 HBU Cascade
   1 cup honey
   ale yeast
   1/8 cup chopped fresh basil, added to fermenter

Any suggestions for :

   how much honey?  when should it be added to the boil?

   what kind of hops?  how much?  beer shouldn't be very bitter.

   how much basil?  when to add it?  to the boil?  the fermenter?

   what kind of yeast?  sierra nevada i guess.

thanks for the help.
                                              - Bryan

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 30 Oct 91 12:11:35 -0800
From: hpfcmr.fc.hp.com!hplabs!hpcsos.col.hp.com!hp-lsd.col.hp.com!hplabs!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Re: Grolsch bottles

Don Karon asks about Grolsch bottles.

I have never used them, but have read (in this forum) that they
work very well if you replace the gaskets before the first re-use
and every so often (2, 3 or 4) re-uses.  The gaskets are available
from many homebrewer's supply shops, but if you can't find them,
I know that Lil' Olde Winemaking Shoppe (708-557-2523) and Winemaker's
(in Elmhurst, IL) have them.  I would also recommend storing them in
the dark (see my previous post) or using Altenmunster bottles (brown
bale-top bottles) instead.  There's an ad in virtually every Zymurgy
for a place that sells empty bale-top bottles -- you might try that
instead.

Al.


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 30 Oct 91 11:01:49 PST
From: hartman at varian.varian.com (John Hartman)
Subject: Various Topics

Maris Otter malt:

A few weeks ago I made queries about torrefied wheat and a type of barley
malt called Maris Otter.  Thank you to those who responded via email and in
the digest.  I purchased some Maris Otter malts from Liberty Malt Co. in
Seattle.  It's a nice store by the way.  I brewed two batches of strong ale
with this grain.  I'm only a judge in the sense that I know what I like and
with that in mind I say that Maris Otter malt does brew a fine beer.  I seems
to have more body and a richer (spicy?) flavor.  Using this grain I was able
to produce my most athentic English ale to date.  Perhaps I'll brew the exact
same recipe with and without this malt to get a better idea of its qualities.
If you're interested in trying it out, you can contact Liberty Malt at
206-622-1880.  Unfortunately it's rather pricy at $1.55/lb...

Torrefied Wheat:

It's still not clear to me whether torrefied wheat is made by popping it,
scorching it, or both.  I guess I'll have to plan a road trip to the Young's
brewery in London.  On the other hand perhaps one of our London readers could
take the tour and ascertain the facts.  I could think of worse duty;-)

Plastic vs. Glass:

I use a 20 plastic primary.  I'm troubled by the AHA statistics and often
wonder what if any off flavors might be attributable to my use of plastic.
I think the statistics *may* be misleading.  Have not glass carboys been around
longer?  Perhaps the more experienced brewers therefore use glass.  Also plastic
is cheaper. Thus new brewers start with plastic, then switch to glass
later in order to eliminate the risk of off flavors, especially when competing.
Those who can afford glass probably have a bigger equipment budget.  I suggest
that the stronger correlation is between years of experience/budget and winning
of awards.

Good source of grain:

A few months ago someone was looking for a good source of grain.  I buy mine
at:
	Brewmaster
	2315 Verna Court
	San Leandro, CA 94577.  
	800-288-8922 or 510-351-8920

They have a huge selection of supplies (no torrefied wheat:-)) for both beer
and wine making.  For bulk orders of 20 lbs. or more domestic two-row pale ale
malt is $.65/lb.  For British two-row pale ale malt is $.64/lb.  Add $.04/lb.
for crushing.

Cheers,
John  hartman at varian.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 30 Oct 91 14:46:11 CST
From: andy at wups.wustl.edu (Andy Leith)
Subject: Light and Bitter

Daniel Butler-Ehle writes that most UV is reflected by glass and
that the colour only effects visible light.
The first part of this statement is partially true, the second
part is wrong.  UV from sunlight that can penetrate the atmosphere
is in the 0.3 to 0.4 micron wavelength range. Depending on the
type of glass some portions of the specrum are indeed not transmitted,
however some wavelengths within this range are transmitted
with a transmisivity of up to 90% and it is these that cause the damage.
Photochemical changes are specific to particular wavelengths, and
if the wavelength in question is transmitted through the bottle the reaction
will occur regardless of how much of the rest of the spectrum is reflected or
absorbed.  Green bottles permit a significantly higher amount of UV light
through than brown bottles. A look through the CRC handbook of Physics and
Chemistry section on Corning and Wratten filters should convince you of this.
Incidentally the handbook lists the wavelengths in the Corning section as
being in nanometres and I think this is a typo and should read microns.

Nick is looking to duplicate an English bitter,
I suggest you get hold of a copy of Dave Line's Brewing Beers Like Those
You Buy, which has many good ideas (remember that the recipes are given in
Imperial units), despite the fact that Bitter is quintessentially a draught
product you CAN make reasonable facsimiles in a bottle, although it is
easier to use a keg.

Andy Leith

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 30 Oct 91 10:43:15 EST
From: praxisti!ratso!paul at uunet.UU.NET (Paul Emerson)
Subject: Wanted Fuller's ESB Recipe


Does anyone have a good recipe for Fuller's ESB?  I have "Brewing Beers
Like you Buy", (or something simlar), but the recipe calls for things 
like sacerin tablets, (a little too un-natural for me).   
Both all grain or extract are welcome. 

- -- 
Paul Emerson                             | Quest Technology Group, Inc. 
Senior Software Engineer                 | 1870 Aloma Ave. Suite 240 
UUCP: uunet!praxisti!ratso!paul          | Winter Park, FL 32789
CIS: 72355,171                           | (407) 644-6556 


Return to table of contents


Date:    Wed, 30 Oct 1991 16:44:28 EST
From: ASMITH at vax.wi.edu
Subject: Pumpkin Advice Needed

- ---- Microsoft Mail "VMS Mail" message ----

From: Albert Smith on Wed, Oct 30, 1991  4:43 PM
Subject: Pumpkin Advice Needed
To: Homebrew Digest
My brewing partner and I were inspired by the delicious Great Pumpkin Ale at the
Cambridge Brewing Company and now we want to make beer featuring the taste of
pumpkin.  Can anyone give advice and/or recipes on how to go about that.

Thanks in advance,
Albert Smith
 -asmith at vax.wi.edu

Return to table of contents



End of HOMEBREW Digest #752, 10/31/91
*************************************
-------

---