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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

Contents:
  What is 'rec.food.drink' ("HQEIS::KEISTER")
  Wanted: malt extract recipies (J. Wayne Boyer)
  High terminal SG also ("MISVX1::HABERMAND")
  Re: Wyeast #2042 (Danish lager) (lbr)
  re: What is your extract efficiency? (lbr)
  dry hopping (jhersh)
  kegs, canisters, and first time brewing  (Michael L. Farkas)
  apple cider disaster (Andre Trudel)

Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com


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Date: 13 Feb 89 08:32:00 EST
From: "HQEIS::KEISTER" <keister%hqeis.decnet at hqafsc-vax.ARPA>
Subject: What is 'rec.food.drink'

Occaisionally, I see referrences to recipies, etc. that were posted on
'rec.food.drink'.  What is rec.food.drink and is it available to ARPAnet nodes? 

- Alan 
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Date: Mon, 13 Feb 89 09:40:17 -0500
From: jwb at mentor.cc.purdue.edu (J. Wayne Boyer)
Subject: Wanted: malt extract recipies

Hello,
   
    I am looking for some good malt extract recipies.  Specifically,
recipies for porters, sweet stouts (like Mackeson) and Barley Wines
(like Old Nick).  I have Papazian's book on home brewing, but the
recipies are a bit limited.  There are no recipies for barley wine
style ales in his book.  So, if you have any favorite recipies that
you would be willing to share, they would be appreciated. 

Thanks,
	Wayne Boyer (jwb at mentor.cc.purdue.edu)

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Date: 13 Feb 89 08:37:00 PST
From: "MISVX1::HABERMAND" <habermand%misvx1.decnet at afrpl-vax.ARPA>
Subject: High terminal SG also

It seems that I am having the same problem with a high terminal gravity that
Len Reed mentions in Digest #72.

I started with 6 lbs. dark Australian DME, 1 lb. carmel crystal malt, and 3 oz.
hops.  The initial gravity was 1.055.  I pitched with Wyeast 1098 (British
Ale).  It took about a day to get going since I just used the starter in the
foil pouch that it came with.  After 4 more days, it seemed like the
fermentation had stopped. I checked the SG and it was 1.021.  The directions I
was following said to bottle after fermentation stopped.  Other instructions I
have seen, say to let the brew rest for 5 days after fermentation stops before
bottling.  I racked it into a secondary fermentation container and decided to
wait another couple of weeks to see what would happen.  After 3 weeks the SG
is now 1.019 which I think is a little high.  I topped it off with about 1/2
gal. of water to make 5 gallons.  The SG is now 1.017 and I am waiting another
week to bottle.  I really like the aroma and flavor the way it is now. 

My question is:  The recipe calls for 1 cup priming sugar at bottling.  Should 
I add the whole cup with this high gravity or would a half cup be better?

Thanks,

David
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Date: Mon, 13 Feb 89 11:42:38 EST
From: lbr at gatech.edu
Subject: Re: Wyeast #2042 (Danish lager)

> Len Reed writes about a high terminal gravity with his beer made
> with Wyeast Danish lager yeast. I have had a similar experience.
> With a steam beer recipe that I've made about 6 times with very
> little variation, switching from #2035 (don't remember it's name)
> to #2042 with no other changes gave me a terminal gravity of 1.018
> instead of 1.013. I think of this batch as "Danish Steam Syrup".
> The data I have from Wyeast claims attenuation of 4-5% less with
> 2042 as compared to 2035 but I didn't realize the implication of
> this at the time. Since then my supplier has confirmed that 2042
> just doesn't munch as much of the sugars.

I think that it also doesn't like really cold temperatures.  It seems
to quit working when the temperature falls much below 50 degF.  I
also probably managed to acclimate the yeast to a high temperature in
the first week of fermentation.  (We had a real warm spell and I don't
have a beer fridge.)  The temperature in my fermentataion shed went
into the mid 50s yesterday and the stuff is fermenting again.  Another
batch--started two weeks later and thus missing the severe warm spell--
fermented fine at lower temperatures, but still couldn't deal well
with 45.

BTW, I got a fine Pilsner using #2402.  Fermentation and aging took
place at about 50.  Attenuation was fine.  It has a softer flavor
the the standard (P.U.), but I'd call this a difference rather than
a flaw.  It is by far the current house favorite.

> So it is possible the 160 degree mash is another red herring, although I
> realize that all the popular literature says 160 should give a large
> fraction of dextrins. Perhaps an experiment with a starter and some
> dry malt extract with known characteristics might clear things up.

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Date: Mon, 13 Feb 89 11:59:01 EST
From: lbr at gatech.edu
Subject: re: What is your extract efficiency?

Darryl Richman <darryl at ism780c.isc.com> wrote:

> Yes, well, Noonan is not a complete handbook, but I do like the sharp
> focus he has....
> [Miller's] book is more frustrating than Noonan because you aren't as certain
> about his biases.

Well, my complaint about the formulas was a nit-pick.  I like Noonan's
book a lot.  His book would be troublesome for a beginning grain
brewer, though, because it lacks the low-level how-to information.  That's
fine--it's not his focus, and I was happy not to have to wade through that.

I wish Noonan had given me some idea about what compromising certain
things would do to the result.  My biggest compromise right now is
fermentation temperature:  I trust to luck.  But look at what he
suggests: gradually lower the temperature, then raise
it briefly to get the yeast to absorb diacitals (sp?), then lower it.
The lager at very low temperature.  Then slighly higher after bottling.

To do this and overlap batches I'd need a row of refridgerators.  How
much can I compromise this, and what effect will it have on the beer?
It's nice to know what a pro would do, but I'd like to know if corner-
cutting is going to have a marked or a minor effect.

Some of his recommendations seem like labor for no benefit.  I've never
had a defective hot or cold break.  I can't imagine withdrawing boiling
wort and force cooling it to 50 degF to check for the break.  He doesn't
say that you might want to do this; he says you should do this.  This
implies that failure to do this (or, say the iodine test) may ruin
the beer.  Nonsense.

He also says you should dough in at 60 degF and then boost to 120.  I
toss the grain into 135 degF water, which gives me 120.  His method
seems like extra work.  (Will it give a higher extract?  If that's
*all* it will do the hell with it.)

" I (Len Reed == gatech!holos0!lbr) wrote that I do the iodine test, but
" consider it near-worthless.

> Then you and [Miller] will get along here well.  I find that the iodine check is
> very interesting to watch as conversion nears completion.  The time it takes
> for the iodine to produce a reaction indicates the starch level left and
> as it asymptotically approaches 0, I get an idea of how much further to go.

Do you then use the idoine test data to determine how much longer (past
100% conversion) to leave the mash to get the proper dextrin/maltose
balance?  Or do you merely use the test to estimate how long until
the test will be negative?  I get a negative reaction in 1-20 minutes,
but leave the mash 30-60 minutes total.  Knowing after 5 minutes that the
test will be negative after 15 rather than 20 minutes seems of no real value;
knowing how long to leave the mash to get the balance by some means
other than the traditional one (wait until you measure the final gravity)
would be useful.

" [I said I get 65-70% extract.]

> You are looking at Noonan's decoction number, for infusion he quotes
> 70%.  (Are you doing decoction?)

Yes.  I haven't noted a great deal of difference in extract between infusion
mashing British pale malt and decoction mashing N. American malt.  The latter
makes far more trub.  I've not tried decoction vs. infusion for the same
malt.  Infusion mashing lager malt is a poor idea, isn't it?

> Anyway, to get back to the original issue, getting 1.030 sg/lb./gal.
> seems to be above average in homebrewing circles and is nothing to
> be worried about.

Fine.  It's fermentation temperatures that are bugging me now that I'm
trying to make lager beer.  I've made satisfactory ales in the easily
attained range of high 50's to middle 70s.  I'll probably spring
for a used fridge if I can't be assured that *one* will get me through
the summer months when light lagers (a la Carlsberg) are so nice.

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Date: Mon, 13 Feb 89 11:35:11 est
From: jhersh at rdrc.rpi.edu
Subject: dry hopping

Some of the people dicussing the subject seem to be missing the point of dry
hopping (though others understand). Dry hopping is not done for bittering,
but for aromatics. It is the oils, and not the alpha acids one seeks here.
I saw a suggested technique in Vol 1-5 of Best of Beer and Brewing for
sterilizing the hops prior to dry hopping. The suggestion was to flash 
pasteurize them by steeping them or bioling them in 180F plus water for
just one minute, then adding the hops and sterile water to the fermenter.
I haven't tried this yet but it seems reasonable. Doing this should both 
kill bacteria and not drive off too many aromatics. If somebody tries this
before I do (probably a few weeks as all my carboys are currently in use)
give a shout back

- jay h

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Date: Mon, 13 Feb 89 10:49 PST
From: Michael L. Farkas <Farkas at GODZILLA.SCH.Symbolics.COM>
Subject: kegs, canisters, and first time brewing 

Well guys, I've finally decided to take the plunge.
I'm getting ready to make my first batch of beer.
I'm going for a lager (seems like the easiest for a
first time brewer).  But it seems like such a pain
putting the stuff in bottles, so I want to go with a 
tapping system. Now for the questions...

 1)  I only have the resources to make it in five
     gallon batches.  am I better off doing it in
     one of those five gallon soda syrup cannisters,
     or is it okay to brew only five gallons in
     a 1/4 or 1/2 keg?

 2)  If i do it in a five gallon soda cannister, 
     am I brain damaged thinking that I can
     easily adapt the setup so I can use either
     the five gallon cannister or a keg, so I can
     buy commercial stuff when I don't have the
     time to make my own?

 3)  If I am brain damaged, is it going to cost me
     a fortune to buy a setup with two taps so
     I can keep both on tap?

 4)  Where in the Los Angeles area can I buy
     the tapping/cooling setup that won't cost
     me my life savings?

 5)  Is there anything I should know about Los Angeles
     water, as far as conditioning it so my beer tastes
     GREAT?

(I hope I'm not boring you)
	
   See ya around...
      Mike Farkas

"This is a stick up...Your life, or your beer"

"Can I have a few minutes to think about it?"

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Date: Mon, 13 Feb 89 23:00:59 EST
From: Andre Trudel <anatrudel at watdragon.waterloo.edu>
Subject: apple cider disaster

Back in early november i bought 5 gallons of apple juice (no preservatives).
I threw in a packet of champagne yeast and let it ferment until xmas
(nothing else was added). Before bottling at xmas, i added 1 1/4 cup of
sugar. I now have 60 bottles of flat almost tasteless liquid.

Anybody know what i did wrong? Is there anything that can be done with
the stuff now?

Andre

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