---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Mead (Mike Sharp)
  Easymash, Decoction, British brewing, Yeast (Desmond Mottram)
  Silver Solder (Tom Dimock)
  Kettle building - Part 2 (Tom Dimock)
  Going all-grain. (joshua.grosse)
  just starting out (TCMN000)
  Club Coors Party Line (Arthur Delano)
  New American Wheat? (Mike Zentner)
  Getting Bottles (Arthur Delano)
  Whitbread ale yeast (mcnally)
  Microbrews by mail (Bill Crisafulli)
  Multiple Regulators ("Rad Equipment")
  Multiple Regulators                   Time:10:38 AM    Date:12/2/91
  Reusing yeast (Bryan Gros)
  To Rob Orr (Jay Hersh)
  Lace (Jay Hersh)
  Bottling Draft Beer ("Rad Equipment")
  Bottling Draft Beer                   Time:12:47 PM    Date:12/2/91
  Grain mill rehabilitation (Mahan_Stephen)
  Re: Galvanized Mesh (korz)
  Culturing yeast (Peter Glen Berger)
  Webbing/Belgian Lace (korz)
  Re: Casks (korz)
  Cutting Stainless Kegs (C.R. Saikley)
  Calcium Chloride (David Pike)
  Sparging bags (BAUGHMANKR)
  2-row vs. 6-row (BAUGHMANKR)
  ...of sealing wax and casks... (Dieter Muller)


Send submissions to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues!]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Dec 91 6:32:38 EST
From: Mike Sharp <msharp at cs.ulowell.edu>
Subject: Mead

Dieter Muller (dworking at habitrail.Solbourne.com) writes: 
> I've been looking for small wooden casks to put my mead into.
> I've even (finally!) found a source for them.  However, it turns out I
> have to make a decision: do I want paraffin-lined, charred, or
> unlined?

You don't want a charred one for mead.  An unlined cask will take you
at least 3-4 batches to 'break in'.  That is, your mead will have an extreme
oak flavor for the first few batches.  A lined cask would most likely be the
best way to go, although then you're just using it for effect.  You might
as well use a paraffin-lined trash can.

I use a 15gal unlined white American oak barrel for making beer (lambic!).
They do seal (either that or my downstairs neighbor is _very_ tollerant),
but most places wont guarantee them to do so.  You should contact me in
about two weeks and we can discuss this process in detail.  Anyway, to
me, using anything but an unlined cask is pointless.  Its a lot of money to
spend for just an image.  The paraffin linning negates a number of the
interesting qualities of a good cask (it breathes just a _little_, it
will lend character and color to its contents, etc).

The Dieter describes his mead as being undrinkable:
> Months pass (about four, actually).
Here is the problem.  Most long mead tastes like gassoline for at least
the first six months, sometimes the first year or two.  Put your
bottles away and be patient.

> After reflection on recent notes to the list and private e-mail, some
> courses of action I'm going to try are (in no particular order):
> 	- use glass fermenters
> 	- use a non-plastic storage after fermentation (hence my
> 	  questions about wooden casks)
> 	- use a less-attenuative yeast

None are bad suggestions. However, none of these will get around the problem
of hainvg to age a mead.  Since most people have no idea that it takes a 
*long* time to make a good mead most have the problem you describe.
(here I'm assuming you're making a long mead, BTW.  It is possible to make
a 'quick' mead, but this is much more like making soda -- a quick ferment,
bottle it at ~1.040-1.050 and keep it *cold* so it doesn't explode.  Don't
try this at home kids -- its *dangerous*.)

Finally, just to throw a wrench into your works, I believe long meads
were less common in the majority of the 'period'.  Why?  A history by
Lt. Col. Robet Gayre pulished as _Brewing_Mead:_Wassail!_In Mazers_Of_Mead_
(available from the AHA) is quite well researched and it suggests that
mead was consumed on what would be today the sweet side.  Its me belief
that the majority was more likely a quick mead due to the 1) popularity
2) cost of cellaring 3) general impatience (would 1,000,000 bud drinkers
be willing to wait 1-2yrs for their product?).  There is some mention
in Gayre about mead being consumed straight from the fermenters, etc.
I don't have any had primary source for any of this, but should you wish
to track some down this book has a rather large biobliography.

How do I know this?  My first 30 batches were meads.  Then I got hooked
on lambics...   Now Dawn (S.O.) makes the mead.  FWIW, someone will be
seeing an entry from me in the AHA nationals.  The mead is about 2 years
old now & was only really drinkable after about a year.

	--Mike Sharp

I bet you guys didn't know I was in the SCA too, did ya'.  Heres the .sig:
    | |  Wallace the Brewer         |                        | "A watched pot
    | |  of the house Merhdad       |  Michael D. Sharp      | never ferments."
   / M \ Canton of the Towers<      |  Computer Science Dept.|    -me  
   | e | Carolingia<EK              |  University of Lowell  |    2/8/90
   | a |                            |  Lowell, MA            |
   | d | ---------------------------+------------------------+-----------------
   -----          

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Date: Mon, 2 Dec 91 12:46:12 GMT
From: des at swindon.swindon.ingr.com (Desmond Mottram)
Subject: Easymash, Decoction, British brewing, Yeast

Re Easymash: I also use one vessel for both mash and boil. It's plastic with 
an immersion heater controlled by a simmerstat. These are obtainable in the UK
through homebrew retailers. There are several drawbacks which incline me to
getting a 35l Burco boiler sometime.

 - It's slow to get up to boil, up to three hours for 5 galls. Once boiling it 
   rolls well while the simmerstat is on, but goes off the boil about every 20
   secs.
 - It's not large enough to prepare the volume of water required for a 5 
   gall brew beforehand (I boil first to precipitate bicarbonate).
 - You can't use it to heat sparge water, as it's tied up with mashing. You 
   can't start boiling with it until you have finished sparging and washed 
   it out.

Re Decoction : Mike McNally writes:
> Though it is true that undermodified lager malt is better handled by
> decoction, much modern American malt and certainly British ale-style
> malt is quite well modified.  The single-step infusion spurned by Jack
> is in fact used by most British brewers and many commercial brewers of
> lagers in America and on the continent.  If, however, Jack uses very
> hot sparge water, he probably is better served by decoction.

Yes, most British beer is brewed without decoction. I've been told that 
decoction is required to digest protein before saccharification begins. 
This is more likely to be necessary with less-modified, high-nitrogen  
malt, but many modern malts are high-nitrogen.

Does decoction affect taste at all? I got the impression it was 
done to prevent protein haze, not to improve flavour. An alternative to 
boiling a portion of the mash, following the decoction rest, is to raise 
the temperature gently of the whole mash. This means none of the diastase
enzymes gets destroyed and enables a faster, more complete mash.

Re Yeast: I've been impressed by the range of yeasts mentioned on HBD. In 
the UK many yeasts are available for wine-making but I've found only three 
for beer-making: real-ale, cheap and lager. How much difference does the 
yeast strain make to the flavour of the beer? I'd suspect a lot, but havn't 
got the variety to experiment with.

Rgds, Desmond Mottram
des at swindon.swindon.ingr.com
 ..uunet!ingr!nijmeg!swindon!d_mottram

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Date:         Mon, 02 Dec 91 09:58:09 EST
From: Tom Dimock <RGG at CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:      Silver Solder

I am reading my way through the HBD archive, and came across a post in
HBD 512 stating that silver solder is 97% lead and 3% silver.  Do any
of our metalurgists (or materials scientists) out there know what the
story is on this?  If silver solder can result in free lead, I'd like
to know so that I can deal with that in my construction article.

Tom Dimock  -  "Flame your kettle, not the net!"

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Date:         Mon, 02 Dec 91 10:17:56 EST
From: Tom Dimock <RGG at CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:      Kettle building - Part 2


Building a Modern Elektrikal Brew Kettle - Part 2

I chose to heat my kettle electrically so that I would be able to
brew indoors in my shop.  This lets me stay out of the Ithaca
weather (which is usually bad) and out of the kitchen, which
makes my wife happy.  It does require a pretty heavy duty electric
supply - mine is a 50 amp 240 volt outlet that normally powers my
monster welder.  Because I have this heavy duty power source, I
configured the kettle with a high setting that will boil 6 gallons
of water in less than 20 minutes, and a low setting which is
used for the actual boil and which won't scorch my wort.

In order to prepare the kettle for electric heat, we need to mount
two 1" pipe fittings into the side of the keg.  These can be standard
pipe couplings from the hardware store, or if you have a friend who
owns a large machine shop (as I do - thanks, Charlie!) you can have
custom fittings machined from 304 stainless steel.  You need to cut
two holes for these fittings fairly low on the side of the keg
(about 1" above the seam where the bottom support ring is
welded on) so that the elements will be near the bottom of your
wort.  The holes should be about 6" apart, and slightly elliptical
so that the fittings are parallel.  I cut these holes using the "lots
of little holes and then filing to fit" technique.  This was surprisingly
easy to do.  You can also let the welder cut the holes with his
fusion torch, if you're sure he understands what you want.

While we're cutting holes, we also need one dead center in the
bottom of the keg to make our drain.  This one can be a 3/4" fitting,
although if you have a pile of 1" SS fittings (gloat, gloat) you can
use one of those.

Now comes the fun part, attaching the fittings to the keg.  They can be
silver-soldered in (normal solder won't bond to the keg), or they can
be welded.  Silver solder and the special flux it requires are quite
expensive - if you're going to buy them just for this, you might come
out cheaper to have them welded in professionally.  Twenty-five dollars
seems to be the canonical number for the job.  If you have someone else
weld them in, make sure they are not using welding rods containing
Cadmium, as this can make your beer poisonous.  TIG welding is the best,
and is how mine was done. The two heater fittings should be welded in
with their axis parallel to each other and to the floor.  The bottom
fitting should be welded so that it does not extend into the inside of
the keg, so that you can drain the keg completely.

Nou you'll notice that the keg won't sit flat on the floor anymore,
because of the drain fitting.  Don't worry, we're going to give the keg
legs.  Ah, yes, the legs.  I wanted the keg to be up high enough that
I could drain from the bottom of the keg directly into a counter-flow
chiller and then straight into the carboy.  For a five gallon carboy
and the chiller I had in mind, this meant that the top of the keg
needed to be five feet off the floor.  The legs are made out of three
2x4's five feet long (my 2x4's are cherry, but that's another
story :-)).  The legs get cut as shown in the crude diagram, so that
the leg supports the keg and touches it at the top and bottom rings,
but is cut back away from the sides of the actual keg.  Holes are
drilled through the legs and the top and bottom rings of the keg to
take 5/16" carraige bolts. These rings make the keg material look
like butter - I mean they are TOUGH metal.  A cobalt drill bit is
highly recommended.  The three legs are spaced evenly around the keg,
with one being centered between the two heater fixtures (this will be
the back of the finished boiler.
                                                  notches for chiller
    ___ keg goes here ____________________           |   |   |
   |                                      V          V   V   V
   V                                       _________   _   _   _   _
    ____                             _____|         |_| |_| |_| |_|
 t |    |___________________________|
 o |                                                       floor ->
 p |__________________________________________________________________


The chiller will be a six-turn coil of 1/2" copper tubing encased in
1" i.d. plastic tubing, and for that we need six notches into the
inside of each leg.  The notches should be 1 1/4" wide and deep,
and 1/2" apart. Don't cut them yet - in a future installment I'll have
some more detail on them.

Next installment - Heating elements and power.

P.S.  Since writing this installment, I have wondered about silver solder
(see separate post), so that becomes an un-recommendation until I find out
a little more.

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Date: Monday, 2 December 1991 10:14am ET
From: joshua.grosse at amail.amdahl.com
Subject: Going all-grain.


I went all-grain for the first time yesterday.  I used a blend of Miller and
Papazian methods, made some mistakes, infuriated my wife by consuming the
kitchen for a good six hours, and had a mixture of stress and relaxation
during the process.  I'm looking for advice from experienced all-grain brewers
on both technique and, in a couple of cases, product availability.

EQUIPMENT

I went with a Thorne Electrim brand "bin" for mashing/boiling.  This is a 220
volt thermostatically controlled 7 gallon plastic bucket; a Bruheat clone.  I
made a Zapap lauter tun, using 6.5 gallon buckets, with a slightly leaky tap
at the bottom from a rather rough cut hole.  I also purchased a Burch
immersion chiller.

GRAIN

I was unable to obtain or use a grain-mill.  I used a Braun coffee grinder, as
there seemed nothing else in the house that would work.  I've got a blender,
and a Cuisinart with lots of attachements, but I thought the coffee grinder
would be the least abominable.  I ground 8 lbs of German 2-row (lager/vienna)
a 1/4 cup at a time in the thing.  Going in very short bursts, I thought I'd
be able to crack the grains without making too much flour.

For those of you without grain mills; what do YOU use?  What kind of extract
rates do you get?  I got a lot less than I'd hoped.  It seemed I made a
mixture of flour and uncracked whole grains.  For those with mills; how much
do they cost?

MASH

I used two left-over PH tests from my old salt-water fish tank to adjust PH
during the mash.  They were a little TOO wide range (from 5 to 9) but I could
tell that I needed to add some gypsum to the mash, and that 1 tsp got me
between 5 and 6, anyway.

I couldn't obtain PH papers.  Where do you find them?  I know the brand name
that Miller recommends, but my local homebrew supply and one pharmacy I
checked with didn't carry 'em.

I used 2 quarts of water per pound, so 4 gallons of water with the 8 pound
mash.  Miller, and other brewers, recommend thin mashes with Bruheat (or my
clone) systems.  This worked fine, no scorching or burning.

I used the old Iodine test that Miller doesn't like.  As Papazian predicts,
the mash was done in less than 40 minutes.  Miller likes to mash for an hour
and a half without testing.  I preferred to test.

SPARGE

A 4 gallon mash didn't all fit in the lauter-tun at the same time!  I ended up
taking a lot of run-off out right away in order to stop leakage from between
the two buckets!  Miller recommended a 5-minute rest for settling; I couldn't.
This made the sparging get a little more complicated.  I'd forgotten about
that gallon of acidified foundation (underlet) water at the bottom of the
lauter tun.

I used a total of 3.5 gallons of acitified sparge water; one for the
foundation, the rest for rinsing after an hour of recirculating.  My wort
never went clear; I never saw particulate matter, instead it seemed to remain
the same level of cloudiness throughout the recirculation.  I tried it both
Papazian's way, with the liquid above the grain level, and Miller's, with the
liquid just below the grain level -- I believe my coffee grinder may have been
at fault.

BOIL

The electric boiler never got a really good high ruckus boil.  All to the
good, because I didn't have to watch for a boil over, yet it was "rolling"
gently all through the 90 minute boil.  I kept the lid 3/4 on, which seemed to
help the rolling, but that obstructed my boiloff.  I started with about 6.5
gallons and ended up at about 6, not the 5 I was hoping for.

CHILL

The immersion chiller only has a small leak on the input side connections,
which I'll fix with teflon tape.  It chilled my 6 gallons from boiling to cold
in 20 minutes, with some gentle stirring every 5 minutes.

EXTRACT

I kept 5 gallons of the 6 gallons for fermenting.  Guess what?  Starting
Gravity was 1.030.  Had I had a better method for grinding, and a 5 gallon
finish, I would have had 1.047.  Papazian says, when you get an extract that's
different than what you expect, relax and ferment it.  That's what I'm doing.

- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Josh Grosse                                jdg00 at amail.amdahl.com
Amdahl Corp.                               313-358-4440
Southfield, Michigan

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Date:        Mon, 02 Dec 91 09:37:40 CST
From: TCMN000 <TCMN%MUSIC.TCS.TULANE.EDU at VM.TCS.Tulane.EDU>
Subject: just starting out


Alright, I have been reading the HBD for 3 weeks and learned a
great deal.  I am convinced that brewing your own is the way to
go.  Where is the best place for an absolute novice to start?  Any
bibles that are a must read for home brewing (aimed directly at
the novice).  Where to get supplies (I live in New Orleans)?

Any help would be greatly enjoyed and put to use.   Contact me either
via the digest or personally.


Mark Davidson (tcmn000 at music.tcs.tulane.edu)
chemical engineering student


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Date: Mon, 2 Dec 91 12:03:40 EST
From: Arthur Delano <ajd at itl.itd.umich.edu>
Subject: Club Coors Party Line


Chris Shenton <chris at endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov> says:
] Saw this number on a co-worker's whiteboard:
] I just called up 1-800-627-5888: it's a Coors Club survey -- answer two
questions by hitting buttons on your touch-tone phone, then speak your name
and address into a recording. Then, supposedly, they send you a coupon good
for a case or something of free beer. Guess which one :-)

Very supposedly.  I just called and the recording iterates and reiterates that
they wish they could give out free beer, but can't, that it's illegal, etc.
   The questions are:  What is your age?  How many beers a week do you drink?
What brand of beer do you buy?  (The possible answers are: Coors, Coors Light,
Budweiser, Miller, and Other).  They then ask for your name and address.

ObBrew:  When I moved from Boston to Ann Arbor, I discovered that my plastic
bottling bucket had been used to carry tools and cans of extract.  I went at
it with a sponge and B-Brite, and again with a carboy brush and more B-Brite.
It's clean and white to the eye, but I can feel scratches, although nothing
deep.  Should I worry, or just have a homebrew?  (note that I may have loaded
that bucket myself in a fit of stupid haste.)
         AjD                  ajd at itl.itd.umich.edu

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Date: Mon, 2 Dec 91 12:26:13 -0500
From: zentner at ecn.purdue.edu (Mike Zentner)
Subject: New American Wheat?


While visiting relatives over the holiday, I chanced upon a case of the
Xmas Sam Adams combination (although it sounds like most people are not
happy with it, I haven't tried any yet).

More importantly, though, I happened across something called
"Heartland Weiss" from Chicago Brewing Company.  I liked it better
than the Sam Adams wheat because it did not have as strong of a
"wheat beer" flavour.  The correct flavour was evident, but so were
the rest of the body and flavour elements of beers like Paulaner
(although certainly not as good as Paulaner).  The head did not 
linger as long (or as firmly) as the German counterparts, but I'd
say this beer is worth a try, anyway.  Anyone else tried this?

Or am I completely wrong and this is a really crappy beer?  :-)

Now, sorry to revisit this, but here goes, no flames intended:

Jack Schmidling writes:
> Re: COUNTERFLOW vs TUBE-THROUGH-BUCKET-OF-ICE-WATER
>
> >In the bucket of ice- wort through tubing method, the initial wort is REAL
> cold, and after the ice melts and you are using a bucket of chilled water,
> the wort is warmer.
>
> I am not sure why the creative process must stop with one bag of ice.

Jack, the process doesn't stop, but if you'd have read my post, you'd
have seen that I want something that will chill wort to exactly pitching
temperature so I can get some sleep and not rush the following morning.
If I kept adding ice, I'd get something say near 40 F, which I would
want to let warm up before pitching.  If you want to do this, fine, there
are no problems with it.  It just doesn't fit into my schedule.  I
repeat, this is not a flame, just a clarification to anyone who was
confused by my original post.

Mike Zentner    zentner at ecn.purdue.edu

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Date: Mon, 2 Dec 91 12:30:58 EST
From: Arthur Delano <ajd at itl.itd.umich.edu>
Subject: Getting Bottles


When I needed enough bottles for my first batch of beer, I took all the old
beer bottles lying around that were not good (green, screw-top, etc.) to the
local drinks store (at the time, Wine & Cheese Cask in Somerville -- Gosh, I
miss that place), and traded one-for-one for bottles that fit the bill.  I've
since bought bottles for the price of deposit from beer stores, and discovered
a wonderful thing -- some places will thank you profusely for taking their
bottles.  Apparently, beer stores which are somewhat indiscriminate about the
bottles they refund deposits on will accumulate a large collection of bottles
they can't get rid of.  If it doesn't bother you and doesn't bother the shop
clerk, ask to root around his collection of deposit returns.  In my last
bottle run, I collected a half case of brown pint bottles for German beers
that haven't been sold here for three years.  Now they're storing a batch of
#4 FrankHaven Red Bitters.
    AjD                   ajd at itl.itd.umich.edu

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Date: Mon, 02 Dec 91 10:41:15 -0800
From: mcnally at Pa.dec.com
Subject: Whitbread ale yeast


What the heck is the deal with Whitbread yeast?  I pitched a packet into
a 1/2 liter of starter wort, and in about an hour there was a big krausen
and the stuff was working its way toward the airlock.  Dang.

There was a very pleasant floral/fruit aroma to the starter when it went
into the wort this morning.

_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
Mike McNally                                           mcnally at wsl.dec.com
Digital Equipment Corporation
Western Software Lab

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Date: 02 Dec 91 13:34:51 EST
From: Bill Crisafulli <73750.2427 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Microbrews by mail

Hi all.  Been lurking here via my second hand copies (thanks John DeCarlo!)
for months.  Learned a lot.  Thanks.
 
A friend of mine has started a little business sending microbrewed beers
monthly to members of "Beer Across America".  They ship via UPS in Illinois,
and through some private company to Indiana, Wisconsin, Michigan, Kentucky,
Iowa, and Missouri.  Right now that's the only states he can ship to, but
that may change.  Details are two six packs (different breweries) per month,
cost averages $14 plus shipping/handling.  First shipment will be in January.
 
For all the details call (800)-854-2337.  I'm personally very psyched about
this, because I'll be able to buy cases of beer not distributed in Illinois
from him!  I have no commercial connection here, just thought this croud
would be interested in this.
 
Bill Crisafulli
       


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Date: 2 Dec 91 10:54:46 U
From: "Rad Equipment" <rad_equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Multiple Regulators

Subject:  Multiple Regulators                   Time:10:38 AM    Date:12/2/91

>2) I've seen those nifty manifolds in the Foxx catalog and they
>seem pretty cheap way to have multiple beers on tap if one thing
>is true:  Do you need a regulator per/keg or would having a single
>regulator between the manifold and the CO2 sufficient (i.e, do you
>find you have to futzz with the pressures on a per keg basis?)

Depende on the beer!  I am set up to dispense 3 kegs (via one of those
manifolds from Foxx).  If they are all homebrew I can get by with one pressure
across all three (normally about 7-10 lbs).  However when I put a keg of
Anchor's Liberty on line, I had lots of foaming problems which I was unable to
correct until I spoke with Mark Carpenter at the brewery.  Seems Anchor
dispenses Liberty at 18-20 lbs!  It is a pretty lively beer.  Also they advise
a minimum of 10'-12' of 3/16" id hose between the keg and the faucet (my brews
have about 4' of 1/4" hose) or some sort of in-line flow control device.  So I
bought a secondary or in-line regulator (range 0-30 lbs) and 15' of 3/16"
beverage hose.  The gase comes out of the tank at 20 lbs into the manifold
where it is split between the Liberty and the in-line reg.  The in-line is set
for my beers (of which I can dispense 2).  Now I have no problem with the
Liberty.  The cost involved the in-line reg. and a 2-line splitter which came
to about $40.

RW...

      Russ Wigglesworth              CI$:      72300,61
|~~|  UCSF Medical Center            Internet: Rad Equipment at RadMac1.ucsf.edu
|HB|\ Dept. of Radiology, Rm. C-324  Voice:    415-476-3668 / 474-8126 (H)
|__|/ San Francisco, CA 94143-0628


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Date: Mon, 2 Dec 91 11:02:34 PST
From: bgros at sensitivity.berkeley.edu (Bryan Gros)
Subject: Reusing yeast

Glad to see the distinct lack of bitching in the last couple of HBDs.

Last week I made an extract brown ale (short on time these days) and
added it to the carboy from which I had just removed a porter.  I was
a little worried that the stuff on the bottom, presumably containing
some of the Wyeast English Brewery Ale yeast, would be damaged by
the ~90F wort, but it was almost 2AM, so I siphoned it in anyway.

I was amazed to see bubbles in 10 minutes and a full fermentation
in 30 minutes.  I had never seen it take off so fast.  Unfortunately,
I don't drink my beer fast enough to do this often, but I'd like
to save some of this yeast.

Would it work to just take some of the trub left after bottling the
brown ale, add it to some boiled and cooled extract in a bottle,
put an airlock on, and when done, cap it and refrigerate it?  Then
I just let this warm up and add it to my next batch?  or maybe
make a starter in a wine bottle?   And if this works, how many times
can I do this?

Thanks for the help.  
                                  - Bryan




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Date: Mon, 02 Dec 91 14:54:30 EST
From: Jay Hersh <hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu>
Subject: To Rob Orr



Sorry to suck up bandwidth, but Rob's return address is incomplete.

Rob, unsubscribe requests go to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
had you sent your first one there I think you'd be off by now.
Sending repeated requests here doesn't do any good as the adminsitrator
doesn't always read the digest. Of course now you'll have to be patient
as the administrator is away for 2-3 weeks and no unsubscribe requests
are being handled currently. In the meantime please be patient and
stop posting unsubscribe requests to the digest itself.

Thank you.
	JaH

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopfen und Malz, Gott erhalts


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Date: Mon, 02 Dec 91 14:57:42 EST
From: Jay Hersh <hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu>
Subject: Lace



Hmmm.

I get Lace in almost very beer I brew, even ones that are exclusively extract.
I think it is more related to yeast health, though I don't have any specifics
to back this perception. Though perhaps I have been using an extract brand
that has sufficient protein content.

 - JaH

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Hopfen und Malz, Gott erhalts


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Date: 2 Dec 91 12:57:54 U
From: "Rad Equipment" <rad_equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Bottling Draft Beer

Subject:  Bottling Draft Beer                   Time:12:47 PM    Date:12/2/91
Jack talks about bottling brew from a keg for Thanksgiving.

>Early in the week, I chilled down the beer till ice was visible
>and decanted this into a chilled bottle. 

The "till ice was visible" caught my eye.  Where was the ice?  In the beer? 
That's too cold, Jack.  You begin to isolate the alcohol from the beer when you
freeze the brew.  Perhaps what you bottled was more alcohol than beer and so
tasted very strange.  Yes you want the draft to be cold, to retain as much CO2
as it can, but you shouldn't see any ice!

RW...

      Russ Wigglesworth              CI$:      72300,61
|~~|  UCSF Medical Center            Internet: Rad Equipment at RadMac1.ucsf.edu
|HB|\ Dept. of Radiology, Rm. C-324  Voice:    415-476-3668 / 474-8126 (H)
|__|/ San Francisco, CA 94143-0628


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Date: Mon, 2 Dec 91 15:17:00 CST
From: Mahan_Stephen at lanmail.ncsc.navy.mil
Subject: Grain mill rehabilitation


     Peripherally on the topic of brewing, I have a query.  Last weekend
at the flea market I picked up an old grain mill.  It looks almost
exactly like a friend's Corona.  However, it is missing the feed hopper 
and the grinding plates are coated with rust.  I can rig something to 
act as a hopper (cut out 2-liter/3-liter pop bottle, etc...) but am 
wondering about how to best clean and preserve the grinding plates.

How about it?  Wire brush?  Chemicals (Naval Jelly?)  Steel wool?
Here in Panama City the humidity is extreme (usually 90 % +) and the 
rust problem is severe.  Obviously any type of machine oil is out.  I 
would think that vegetable oils would present problems later in the 
process, leading to lack of head retention.  Also, it would seem that 
the act of crushing the grains would erode any type of coating quite 
rapidly, introducing contaminents (horrors) into my wort.

    Ah, what we won't do to save a few bucks.  Can't beat the prices, 
though.  Grain mill $7, lever type bench cappers $5.  Surplus copper 
tubing and brass fittings are pretty cheap, too.


     On another topic (galvanized pipe and proportion of zinc) it was 
stated that brass has far more zinc content than galvanized steel.  This 
is true, but galvanizing is a fancy name for coating the steel 
(iron) with zinc.  The hot dip galvanizing process involves immersing 
the steel in a bath of molten zinc.  Effectively, from the liquid's 
point of view, the vessel (pipe) is solid zinc. 

steve

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Date: Mon, 2 Dec 91 16:00 CST
From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
Subject: Re: Galvanized Mesh

Jack writes (quoting Larry - now in >>):
>>SS or copper/brass would be a much better choice for long term health.
 
>No doubt but let's not lose sight of the fact that a vast majority of our 
>drinking water moves through galvanized iron pipes.  I am the last one to 

Yes, but, the insides of the pipes invariably get coated with mineral
deposits which isolate the water from the zinc.
>
>BTW, brass has far more zink in it than galvanized iron.

Let's not equate plating with alloys.  Galvanized steel is steel plated
with zinc (plus a few other minor metals as mentioned by others).  Brass
is an alloy and alloys are completely different from their constituent
metals (hey, there's mercury in "silver" dental fillings).  I'm not
a chemist (help! chemists), but this was explained to me quite some
time ago by my brewing partner who is a dentist.  To the best of my
recollection, the binding of the metals in an alloy is not exactly chemical 
but is quite a bit more than simply mechanical.  In most alloys (lead
solder being a notable exception) the consituent metals lose many of
the properties they had as elements.  I don't know if the zinc in brass
can enter into beer being boiled in contact with it.  Again, help from
chemists & metallurgists, is needed for a more definitive answer to this
issue.

As mentioned by someone (sorry) a few days ago, copper is a safe bet
since at this very moment, there are millions of gallons of beer boiling
in copper kettles throughout the world.  SS, albeit more expensive, is
another good choice and less reactive than copper.

Al.

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Date: Mon,  2 Dec 1991 17:48:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Peter Glen Berger <pb1p+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Culturing yeast

Hi.

Can anyone provide me with quick and dirty instructions on how to
culture the yeast from a Sierra Nevada bottle?  Or am I just getting
myself into something endlessly complex?  Thanks.



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Pete Berger		       ||  ARPA:     peterb at cs.cmu.edu
Professional Student	       ||            Pete.Berger at andrew.cmu.edu
Univ. Pittsburgh School of Law ||  BITNET:   R746PB1P at CMCCVB
Attend this school, not CMU    ||  UUCP: ...!harvard!andrew.cmu.edu!pb1p
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"Goldilocks is about property rights.  Little Red Riding Hood is a tale
 of seduction, rape, murder, and cannibalism."  -Bernard J. Hibbits
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Date: Mon, 2 Dec 91 16:36 CST
From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
Subject: Webbing/Belgian Lace

I've also read Brussels Lace.
Al.

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Date: Mon, 2 Dec 91 17:06 CST
From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
Subject: Re: Casks

Dworkin asks whether to buy unlined, charred, or parafin-lined casks.
I would go with the paraffin-lined casks.  I believe paraffin is related
to wax (or IS wax) and I don't think it would be affected by alcohol.
I don't know about the charred casks other than they are used by whiskey
 -makers and possibly Pilsner Urquell (I have a faint recollection of
charring of casks from the Beer Hunter -- was that PU?  Darryl, did you
see the Coopers at work?), but I suspect the flavor produced may not go
with mead.  I know that Mike Sharp has brewed a pseudo-Lambic in unlined
oak, and he said the first batch came out much too "oaky."  Subsequent
batches were more reasonable, as I recall from Mike's writings.  The
oaky flavor may or may not be compatible with the mead, but you first
need to "run a sacraficial batch through" to lose some of the "oakiness."
Another think I recall from Mike's observations, is that until the
wood swells, it will leak, and thus you want to keep the cask full of
some liquid between batches.

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Date: Mon, 2 Dec 91 16:04:00 PST
From: grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: Cutting Stainless Kegs


>From: Tom Dimock <RGG at CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu>

>I will describe the construction of my brewkettle and chiller.

>1)  Drill a couple of holes in the top and then saw between them
>    with a Sawz-All (a heavy duty version of a hand jig saw, for
>    those of you who are not tool freaks).  The stainless steel
>    that the kegs are made of is very tough, so you will need to
>    use carbide blades - the SS will just round off the teeth on
>    a normal hacksaw blade.  This is a noisy and expensive way to
>    do it, as you'll probably chew up several blades.

Other methods for cutting kegs deleted.........

Overall, I thought Tom's description of keg cutting was very
well done. I concur that a plasma cutter is the way to go if
you can get access to one.

OTOH, I've made a couple of boilers using the Sawz-All, and it
wasn't too difficult or costly. I used high speed steel blades 
(at about 80 cents each), and went through 2-3 blades per keg. 
You can put quite a bit of force on the saw if the blade speed 
is kept low. "Feed but no speed" in machinists' lingo. 

Drilling the holes was actually harder than cutting, but requires
only persistence. If the keg is empty (or nearly), it's not 
necessary to relieve the pressure before drilling. As soon as 
the drill breaks thru, the keg will vent and fill the room with
the smell of stale Budmilob, but no showers.

I had absolutely no experience working with metal prior to tackling
my first keg, and in spite of that it seemed easy enough. It was, 
however, the second noisiest thing I've ever done!

Building a brewery can be as fun as brewing.

CR

 -ps- While I'm at it, I think I'll test my new .sig. Whataya think??

*************************************************************************
*									*
*		If it's good enough for Martin : 			*
*		Druid fluids that cause fartin,				*
*		Then I say we should be startin				*
*		On another batch o' brew!				*
*									*
*************************************************************************

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Date: Mon, 2 Dec 91 12:18:27 PST
From: davep at cirrus.com (David Pike)
Subject: Calcium Chloride


To: homebrew forum
From: David Pike	davep at cirrus.com

Some recipes and books, most notably the 91 Special Zymurgy, and the 
continental pilsener book from Miller, call for the use of calcium chloride
to provide the needed calcium instead of the usual calcium sulfate used 
and sold by hb'ers everywhere.

But the local HB store doesn't carry any calcium chloride, neither do 
MOST of the advertizers in Zymurgy. Anybody know of a good source for 
calcium chloride?

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Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1991 22:01 EDT
From: BAUGHMANKR at CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU
Subject: Sparging bags

>To Kinney Baughman: Why is the capillary action in the bucket to 
>bucket lauter tun any more a problem there than any other system? 

It's the water action between the grain mass and the side of the 
bucket that is the concern.  The water in the middle of the bucket 
makes its way through the bed, rinsing out the sugars with no problem.  
But the capillary action on the sides allows that portion of the water 
to slip down the sides missing the grain mass.  The coarseness of the 
sides of the bag reduces capillary action, or so the argument goes.  

>My experience with a grain bag was not salutory, as the bag failed to 
>hold the weight of the wet grain and kept falling into the bucket. 

That's why I usually put a stainless steel vegetable steamer in the 
bottom of my lauter tun to support the bag.  The vegetable steamer 
makes a nice false bottom.

Kinney Baughman                      |   Beer is my business and
baughmankr at conrad.appstate.edu       |   I'm late for work


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Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1991 22:01 EDT
From: BAUGHMANKR at CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU
Subject: 2-row vs. 6-row

Jack posted the outline for his EASYMASH method and then asked for 
ways to make it easier.  During his discussion of decoction mashing
I realized that...

 ...we haven't had a discussion of the relative merits of single-stage 
mashing vs upward infusion/decoction mashing in these electronic pages 
in a while, if ever.  To get the ball rolling, I take the position 
that upward infusion mashing is a waste of time for homebrewers.  A 
single-temperature mash of two-row malt at 150 degrees is simpler and 
yields a 'better' tasting beer.   Decoction mashing is interesting as 
an exercise in getting back to basics but I wonder, in the end, if 
it's really worth the extra trouble.

My appeal is to the principle of parsimony, Ockham's Razor:  Entities 
are not to be multiplied beyond necessity.  :-)

Commercial brewers find it necessary to perform an upward infusion 
mash to convert the high levels of adjuncts added to the mash.  I've 
always argued that since homebrewers are not the least bit concerned 
with adding adjuncts to the mash, why bother with upward infusion 
mashing?  A single stage mash of two-row malt is a heckuvalot easier.  
The grain is more modified and to my mind that means the malt 
character is more fully developed and therefore tastes 'better'. 

Why make life more difficult than it needs to be?  Brother Ockham 
would be displeased. 

Another point of discussion here relates to whether an upward infusion 
mash is essential to the lager beer style (since that's the style its 
usually associated with).  Why couldn't a single-stage mash of two-row 
malt yield wort which would be characteristic of the lager style?  
Isn't the lager/ale distinction one based more on fermentation 
conditions than mashing conditions?

OK, you guys.  The ball's in your court...

Kinney Baughman                      |    Beer is my business and
baughmankr at conrad.appstate.edu       |    I'm late for work.


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Date: Mon, 2 Dec 91 21:53:05 MST
From: dworkin at habitrail.Solbourne.COM (Dieter Muller)
Subject: ...of sealing wax and casks...

The most succinct answer to the question of paraffin-lined casks came
from Bruce Mueller, mueller at sdd.hp.com:

bruce:  Mead, even a strong one at 15% EtOH, won't dissolve paraffin.  The
bruce:  stuff is SLIGHTLY soluble in HOT EtOH.  Not to worry!

An obvious point that I never thought of was made by Drew Lawson,
lawson at bdcd102.nrl.navy.mil:

drew:  Suggestion for a test:  Do you have one of those wax lined leather
drew:  mugs?  If so, you could try filling it with mead, covering it, and
drew:  letting it sit for a day or so.  Then taste the results.

Since these mugs come with a guarantee of proofness against any
potable fluid (or at least, mine did), that answers the question also.

Tom Denny, dennyt at prism.CS.ORST.EDU, asks:

tom:  I'm sorry, but I don't have the answers to your questions raised in this
tom:  letter.  However, I would love, if your willing, to have the address
tom:  of your source for the wooden casks!  It sounds like a neat idea!

I don't have the immediate address at hand, but the merchant in
question is The Cumberland General Store.  I got their catalog by
filling out one of those send-us-money-and-we'll-send-you-a-bunch-of-
different-catalogs offers.  If there's demand, I can look up their
street address some evening and send it on.

Their casks come in, I believe, 2, 5, and 10 gallon volumes.  Prices
for the 2 gallon casks are on the order of $60.  This is all from
(vague) memory, but reasonably close.

	Dworkin

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #773, 12/03/91
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