HOMEBREW Digest #785 Thu 19 December 1991

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		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Holiday Ale Recipe (Bob Jones)
  Homebrew Competition (2nd post) (Bob Jones)
  re Kraeusening  (Chip Hitchcock)
  BJCP upcoming exams (homer)
  Add my name to the list. (Chris Nitsopoulos)
  Seattle Blue Moon erratum (beng)
  Re: Kraeusening  (Chris Shenton)
  instructors and stuff (bryanny the curious)
  Blitz-Weinhard, Schmidling, et caet (Richard Childers)
  Unsubscribeing from HBD during moderator absence (Scott Knowles                       )
  Please cancel my subscription (Adam Ashby)
  Of Skimming and Cold Breaks.... (Jim White)
  hops in starter, water content (Jonathan A. Rodin)
  Re: Sam Adams Breweries (wegeng.henr801c)
  Re: Liquid Starters ( Brian Kelley )
  Jim Koch on the radio (gkushmer)
  Another Bottle Filling Technique (John Otten)
  Cuisinart pasta machine (joshua.grosse)
  Big time bitter (Russ Gelinas)
  More on Chillers ("William F. Pemberton")
  Immersion wort cooler (Daniel Roman)
  Re: Be gyled  (steve)
  Chicago beers (Robert Bradley)
  wet roller mill (krweiss)
  Hops and bacteria (Peter Glen Berger)
  Bottle Fillers (BREIN)
  Re: Kraeusening  (Dave Coombs)
  Re: distilled water and beer (bill)
  Christmas Beer (Tom Dimock)
  Contract Sam Adams (Jeff Frane)
  bottling wands (Michael Zentner)
  Comments on The Video Review (Jay Hersh)
  Auto Mash (Tun) ("John Cotterill")
  Yeast propagation forever?? (John Pierce)
  life-jackets and snorkels (DOBRES)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #784 (December 18, 1991) (CRAIGP%H2VX1)
  cancellation (michael gregg)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1991 13:16 PDT From: Bob Jones <BJONES at NOVA.llnl.gov> Subject: Holiday Ale Recipe Here is a Pale Ale Recipe I brewed for the Xmas holidays. It is in the style of American Pale Ale very similar to SN Celebration ale of about 1988. This is a big, hoppy brew, loaded with aromatic cascade hop fragrance, It has that front of the mouth bitterness that can only be achieved with dry hoping, so don't skip it if you really want to duplicate this flavor profile. Crying Goat Ale Batch size 11 gals. 19 lb - 2 row klages 3 lb - Munich malt 2 lb - 40l crystal malt 1.5 lb - Home toasted 2 row klages (350 deg for 40 min). Age a couple weeks before use. 2 lb - wheat malt 2 oz - N. Brewer hops (AA 6.9) 6 oz - Cascade hops (AA 5.1) 1 t - Gypsum (in mash) 2 t - Irish moss (last 30 min of boil) Chico Ale yeast (wyeast 1056, keep temp at about 65-68 for primary fermentation) 1.5 Cups corn sugar to prime Brewing specifics : 90 min boil 2 oz N. Brewer for 80 min 2 oz Cascade at end of boil for 10 min steep 4 oz Cascade dry hop (after 1 weeks, rack and add to secondary) Mash specifics : Single temp infusion mash for 90 at 155 deg 170 deg mash out for 10 min sparge 11 gals at 168 deg OG:1070 FG:1020 Happy Holidays Bob Jones Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1991 13:20 PDT From: Bob Jones <BJONES at NOVA.llnl.gov> Subject: Homebrew Competition (2nd post) Dear Fellow Homebrewer: You are invited to participate in the 1992 Bay Area Brew-off homebrew competition. This years competition is hosted by The Draught Board homebrew club. The competition will be held at Lyons Brewery Depot in Dublin, Ca. on Jan 25, 1992. Entries will be received the week of Jan. 10-17 at Lyons Brewery. Entry dead- line is Jan. 17, 1992. Mail or deliver your entries to Lyons Brewery Depot, 7294 San Ramon Road, Dublin, Ca. 94568. Entries consist of 2 - 12 oz. bottles. Entry fee is $5.00 per entry. One entry per category. Label each entry with category and sub cat- egory if needed, your name, address, phone number and club affil- iation. The catagories for this years competition will be as follows: Dry Stout Porter Pale Ale - Sub Cat. are Classic Pale Ale, India Pale Ale, American Pale Ale Amber Lager - Steam style Barley Wine Mead - Sub Cat. are Traditional, Melomel, Cyser, Metheglin (all still and sparkling) Holiday Beer - Spiced, herbed or other special beer brewed for the Christmas holidays. This is always a fun get together for homebrewers. I look forward to seeing you all there. If you want additional details on the catagory definitions or have general questions about the competition call Bob Jones (510)743-9519 or email to BJONES at NOVA.LLNL.GOV See you at the competition, Bob Jones Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 91 15:45:02 EST From: cjh at vallance.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock) Subject: re Kraeusening The numbers quoted from Burch seem to me to be high. Consider (numbers from various sources): 1. 1# extract/gallon yields 45 points (average). 2. extract is 15% water, so 1# spray/gallon yields 53 points. 3. a cup of spray or cornsugar is .4#. 4. common recommendation for a 5-gallon batch is 3/4 cup cornsugar 5. This is .06#/gallon. multiply by 53 (points/#spray/gallon) gives 3.2 points (assuming cornsugar gives the same SG/weight as malt sugars, which seems reasonable). malts vary somewhat in their %fermentables, and yeasts vary widely in %attenuation, but if we take 70% as a mean, 3.2 points of corn sugar have the same amount of fermentables as 4.5 points of malt sugars. You might juggle the above figures to get up to needing 5 points from malt, but 6 seems unlikely. (I'm doing this from memory, so I'm not sure about the above ]constant[s---but the one I'm most unsure of is #1, and I'm sure it's not low---if it's high Burch's figures are even further off). For a completed batch, we already know the attenuation in points. This gives, for instance ( change in SG ) * ( quarts of gyle ) 3.2 = ---------------------------------------- 20 + (quarts of gyle ) (assuming a 5-gallon (== 20 quarts) batch and an attempt at the canonical amount of priming). This becomes quarts of gyle = 64 / ( (change in SG) - 3.2 ) If your SG dropped 28 points (~70%), you should put in 2.6 quarts of gyle. Note that this formula uses the \change/ in SG---not sure what P uses. I'd have expected a physics teacher produce a correct formula (the one I used to date certainly would have).... Note also that Miller, who doesn't think much of krauesening (probably because it affects the flavor more in lagers, which he admits to preferring), suggests two quarts of gyle in a batch. On the other hand, I have been krauesening ESB (which should have low carbonation) with ~16 oz gyle in a 1/2-batch and getting results--- sometimes much too much carbonation for the style. I've found that carbonation is very sensitive to factors like the type of yeast and the amount that remains suspended, even when you prime with corn sugar; I once used Polyclar (to get a blanket of CO2) when racking a stout, and it took several months to get any head at all. I would look at other factors (temperature during the first few weeks after priming, time since priming, etc.) before substantially increasing the priming. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 91 14:53 MST From: homer at drutx.att.com Subject: BJCP upcoming exams I had a question on BJCP exams, so I though I would post a list of upcoming exams. If there are no objections I will continue to do so on a regular basis. Chicago January 12, 1992 Randy Mosher (312) 973-0240 Vancouver BC Feb 9, 1992 Betty Ann Sather (604) 524-9463 Lenexa KS Feb. 23, 1992 Jackie Rager (913) 469-9393 894-9131 Westport Mass March 1, 1992 Leslie Reilly (508) 636-5154 Montreal PQ March 1992 Tom Robson (514) 287-7529 Rochester, New York April 25, 1992 Stephen Hodos (716) 272-1108 272-3465 Full details on the Beer Judge Certification Program are contained in a booklet that can be requested by writing to: AHA PO Box 287 Boulder, CO 80306 Attn: BJCP Administrator Jim Homer BJCP Co-Director att!drutx!homer Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 91 14:58:51 EST From: rubble!chris at inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com (Chris Nitsopoulos) Subject: Add my name to the list. add chris at rubble.uucp - -- Chris Nitsopoulos chris at rubble.uucp ..!uunet!mnetor!rubble!chris - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 91 14:46:20 PST From: beng at microsoft.com Subject: Seattle Blue Moon erratum You know what I hate? When somebody self-importantly corrects another's posting, but introduces his own errors. Dead Night at the Moon is SUNDAY night - not Thursday - as several kind correspondents reminded me. Sorry, Katy. Sorry, y'all. - -- Ben Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 91 19:24:26 EST From: Chris Shenton <chris at endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov> Subject: Re: Kraeusening On Fri, 13 Dec 91 17:14:05 PST, hays at voodoo.physics.ucsb.edu said: Andy> I have a question regarding Kraeusening my medium to heavy bodied Andy> ales. I It is only verY Slightly Carbonated . According to Burch, I Andy> should raise the S.G. by .005-.006 which I believe makes Charlie's Andy> formula low by a factor of two. In any case, I need some help from Andy> you Kraeuseners. The Details: Extract/Mash recipe with I.G.=1.040 , Andy> ... bottled with 1.4 quarts of gyle. I typically use a gallon of saved wort for a 10 gallon batch, so that's 2 quarts for a 5 gallon batch. I keg, but prefer natural carbonation to forced. Seems about the right level of fizz to me. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 91 19:43:50 EST From: bryanny the curious <QXN132 at URIACC.URI.EDU> Subject: instructors and stuff errrrr i don' think i'm doing this right, but... (i'm posting through a setup that catches this discussion (called telec) and posting to it is different than posting to a regular electronic mailing list - if you know what i'm talking about, please tell me how to do it RIGHT!) anyway, i also am in the S.C.A. i am part of an amature brewing guild in Trollhaven in Barony of the Bridge in the Knigdom of the East. (that's the University of Rhode Island for the uninitiated) we would like very much to talk in person to experienced homebrewers. if you are willing to treck to us, or to have us descend on your home (about 10-15 people) please contact me with a snail-mail address or a phone number. Also, i have heard mention that there is a list that specializes in wines and meads (and maybe cordials?), could any- one that knows the address please send it to me. qxn132 at uriacc (i hope that is all of it...) thanks for you patience, -bryanny the curious (mundanely victoria north) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 91 16:54:32 PST From: Richard Childers <rchilder at us.oracle.com> Subject: Blitz-Weinhard, Schmidling, et caet Well, first off, while I've been reading this for about a year or so now, I've never had anything useful to say, until now, but wished to thank all those whom have made their experience, knowledge, and conjecture freely available to all whom cared to partake. I was up in Portland, attending classes at Sequent, and had the opportunity to tour the Blitz-Weinhard Brewery. It was a waste of time, alas. I wish to save anyone else so inclined, from wasting their time. First off, the tour is _totally isolated_ from the brewery. OK, maybe that's necessary to maintain sterility ... but I think the whole tour exists, not for the benefit of the tourists, but for the benefit of Blitz-Weinhard. The tour takes place in an isolated and out-of-use corner of the brewery, and said corner is quite sealed off from the brewery proper. You are allowed to gaze at some shiny metal vats that aren't particularly well-labeled as to their functional relationship to the process, including the original brewery vat, or one of them - which, incidentally, looked much like a large water heater, making me wonder if it might be possible to start up a microbrewery with a few well-sanitized, yet discarded, water heaters. That's about the most valuable factoid I carried away from the tour. Better than half of the time allotted to the tour was spent in the panelled office of Henry Weinhard, Senior, watching a movie that didn't spend a second in fifteen minutes discussing _how_ beer was made, preferring to replay old advertisements, many of which relied heavily upon the antagonism that exists between California and Oregon to promote their brew as a local product. Which is amusing, as I recall all too clearly how Henry Weinhard's Private Reserve was, um, ladelled down the throats of California consumers as the choice beer of Real Beer Drinkers Everywhere, a few years back, when it came out. Divide and conquer is not only a political strategy - it is a marketing gimmick, too. The film did mention that a large percentage of their product relied upon the inclusion of the finest rice and corn, along with choice hops and barley. My interpretation of this is that, while they malt their own grains, they have also found it convenient to manufacture their own corn starch onsite, but find it sells better if they refer to such as 'grains' instead of 'starches'. From my understanding of the brewing process, while a small amount of corn starch may prove beneficial immediately before bottling, it is not a major ingedient of beers in general. At Blitz-Weinhard, corn and rice starch are fillers, not pre-bottling additives. If they made that corner into a beer-making museum, dedicated to the history of brewing in the Pacific Northwest, self-guided tours, everything neatly labelled, lots of colored flowcharts detailing things, maybe a few photographs of microscopic yeast doing their thing and some chemical formulae for those so inclined, it would be great. They have some fine equipment in there. Alas, nobody seems to regard it as of any importance except as props for Blitz PR. It's really too bad. That corner of the building lies empty and unseen almost all day, every day, 365 days a year, except for three half-hour slots a day. Summary : don't waste your time unless you like to drink cheap beer and tour empty buildings. You'll learn more brewing one batch and messing it up. )-: Now that I've said that, I wish to address one other small issue ... Date: Mon, 9 Dec 91 14:04 CST From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: STUFF From: simmon at eeel.nist.gov (Eric Simmon) Subject: Re: GRAINMILL >Since this forum is a place for sharing (knowledge, ideas, experience...) why don't you just tell us how you made it. Past experience says that a long posting would have been received with little enthusiasm, by enough readers, that the whole objective would have been lost in endless flames. If you took the trouble to send for the information offered through email, you would now know how it was made. Gee, Jack, that's funny. I sent you private mail in response to this ad - oh, I'm sorry, it wasn't an ad, you were _sharing information_ - suggesting that you do the very same thing that about half a hundred others must have asked, in my absence - that you cease and desist your commerce, but that you really ought to post a diagram of the Damned Thing - and I didn't get any diagrams. All I got were some comments about how there were 'no laws here, just hallway monitors.' Remember ? However, as I happen to have a foundry and machine shop in my basement, it is a little like asking a brain surgeon how he fixed that tumor. If you can't explain it to a five-year-old, you don't understand it. Maybe in subsequent issues of HDB yet to be perused I will see the plans, but I doubt it. My grandfather was one of the finest machinists in Texas during the 1930s, rumor has it, and while I'm no machinist, I know how to draft plans, read blueprints and schematics, and quite a bit else. Most everyone else reading this is similarly highly qualified to pursue a wide range of occupations. Don't you think it's about time you quit pretending you were a brain surgeon amongst natives from farthest Borneo ? And, yes, I _can_ explain network administration and multiprocessing to a five-year-old. I apologize for publicizing this, but I tried private email and it didn't make a dent. If you don't stop, I'll probably just page past your name as I see it, and ignore you as yet another marginally intelligent poltroon with more text than sense or courtesy, better ignored as a bandwastroid. It's unfortunate that you can't freely share of your designs and ideas without trying to make a buck, but I don't pay people to change my tires and I don't buy things I can make - from you or anyone else. This is a noncommercial channel. Please respect it or leave. - -- richard ===== - -- richard childers rchilder at us.oracle.com 1 415 506 2411 oracle data center -- unix systems & network administration Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 91 23:42 EST From: Scott Knowles <NECHO%NCSUMVS.BITNET at ncsuvm.cc.ncsu.edu> Subject: Unsubscribeing from HBD during moderator absence Regarding recent comments about how to UNSUB from HBD... Depending on what mailer sends you your HBD, you may be able to unsub by telling the mailer directly, rather than telling our moderator at homebrew-request. For example, I get HBD from UA1VM.BITNET. So I can send the following message to LISTSERV at UA1VM.BITNET : UnSub Beer-L Unsubscription is immediate. Determine your own mailer by checking the first couple of lines of the HBD header. Remember to address your message to LISTSERV at yourmailer. Scott Knowles (unsub'd for holidays, so I'll not see this note!) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 91 09:58:02 GMT From: ashbya%zeus.swindon.rtsg.mot.com at zeus.swindon.rtsg.mot.com (Adam Ashby) Subject: Please cancel my subscription Please cancel my subscription - I shall be out of touch for a couple of weeks. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 91 08:14:36 EST From: Jim White <JWHITE at maine.maine.edu> Subject: Of Skimming and Cold Breaks.... As a result of some dicussion, in this forum re: boilovers, I decided to skim the thick brown mass that forms on the top of the (beginning to boil) wort. Also, as a result of recent Miller readings, I decided to REALLY chill the wort to cause a massive cold break to settle out. After running the wort through my chiller, (25 ft of coiled copper sitting amidst a bucket of snow). I then transferred the wort to my auxiliary chiller ..... December. The pot sat outside (properly covered) overnight with the air temp around 11 F. In the morning I brought it back inside, (though I didn't open the pot, I could hear/feel sloshing so it wasn't completely frozen). That evening I siphoned into my primary and pitched the yeast. I expected a huge mass of cold break material to have settled out with the quick chilling and prolonged intense cooling. Though I'm not absolutely positive I can identify cold break material, there was little mass of yuch at the bottom of the bucket. What gives? Could this be because of the skimming? Is the thick mass of foam that forms at the beginning of the boil the same material that forms the cold break? Jim White On New Years Day, I'm getting a new (auxiliary) Wort Chiller ! Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 91 08:47:47 -0500 From: rodin at ftp.com (Jonathan A. Rodin) Subject: hops in starter, water content John DeCarlo (m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org) writes: > No mention is made of hops, though. I don't know of any > good reason to put hops in your starter, but there might be some. Hops contain a natural anti-bacterial agent. Putting hops in your starter will help prevent infection. John writes: >What exactly should I ask my water dept.? Should I call or write? Is >there a law that says they have to supply this info at no cost? If you don't have public water (I have private well water), there are usually plenty of labs around which do water analysis, but you have to know what to ask them to test for. There's an article in the Winter Zymurgy, _Beer from Water_, which discusses how the water mineral content effects your beer. The following books have good material on water content: D.E. Briggs, J.S. Hough, R. Stephens, T.W. Wong, _Malting and Brewing Science, Volume 1, Malt and Sweet Wort_, Second Edition, Chapman and Hall, New York, 1981. Dave Miller, _The Complete Handbook of Home Brewing_, Garden Way Publishing, Pownal, Vermont, 1988. Gregory Noonan, _Brewing Lager Beer_, Brewers Publications, American Homebrewers Association, Boulder, CO, 1986. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Rodin ftp Software, Inc. voice: (617) 224-6261 rodin at ftp.com 26 Princess Street fax: (617) 245-7943 Wakefield, MA 01880 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1991 06:02:38 PST From: wegeng.henr801c at xerox.com Subject: Re: Sam Adams Breweries To build on Jim Jedrey`s message: According to a reliable source, much of the Sam Adams Ale is brewed by FX Matt in Utica, NY (home of Matt`s, Utica Club, Saranac 1888, etc). FX Matt brews contract beer for several microbreweries. Me thinks that they may be shipping from Utica as well, since much of the keg ale that we get here in Rochester tastes very fresh. There is also the Sam Adams brew pub in Philadelphia, which was brewing ales for on site consumption last time I was there. I can`t say for sure that the Philly brew pub is owned by Jim Koch, but it displays the familiar Sam Adams logo. /Don Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 91 09:21:21 EST From: bkelley at pms001.pms.ford.com ( Brian Kelley ) Subject: Re: Liquid Starters John DecCarlo (m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org) writes: >The Wyeast liquid yeast packets recommend a starter of 1.020 SG >wort. No mention is made of hops, though. I don't know of any >good reason to put hops in your starter, but there might be some. Papazian suggests bittering hops to help inhibit bacterial growth. I don't know how much it really helps though. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 91 9:17:36 EST From: gkushmer at Jade.Tufts.EDU Subject: Jim Koch on the radio This morning as I was driving in (details of which might find their way to alt.peeves at some point) WFNX in Lynn had Jim Koch on the radio. For the past several days, FNX has been "giving away" slots for this tour they will be taking of the Jamaica Plain brewery, so having Koch in was part of the big promo and hype. I wish I could tell you that this was an interview laden with introspective, detailed questions. But it wasn't. A few points of interest (and don't flame the messenger please): Koch says that Sam Adams is still technically a micro-brewery but that it is the "biggest pygmy" in the forest. Koch says he is the 6th oldest son in a row (through the generations) to be a brewer. When describing the taste of Sam Adams, he said some people might find it too heavy but that everyone "grows up" eventually. He also said that the worst that could happen is that ifthe brewery failed and went broke he'd wind up with having free beer for the rest of his life. I'd like to know how that works out. And, the last thing I remember, is that he says Sam Adams brews in three locations: Boston for the East, Pittsburgh for the Midwest, and Oregon for the West. He does this so that the beer may be fresh - he wants it to be delivered no more than 24 hours after it's finished. If this is true, I wonder how he gets it to Japan (where he says it is sold over TV)? - --gk ============================================================================== We're not hitchiking anymore - we're riding! -Commander Hoeke - ---------------------------- gkushmer at jade.tufts.edu - ---------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 91 10:21:14 EST From: otten at cs.wm.edu (John Otten) Subject: Another Bottle Filling Technique With all of the various methods of bottle filling discussed lately, I have yet to see the method that I use. So, here is another one... I do both the primary and secondary fermentations in the plastic bucket (i.e. I pitch the yeast and let it sit for a week or two). When it comes time to bottle, I boil up some water with priming sugar (about a pint of water with 3/4 sugar) and then add another pint of water to cool it a bit. I pour this solution into a 5 gallon plastic water bag (like we used to carry water in on camping trips) -Sanitized of course- and then siphon the beer in after it. It seems that the siphon action mixes the priming solution with the rest of the wort ok. Then, I attach a spigot to the opening in the bag (it usually comes with one), and fill the bottles. Every now and then (every three or four batches) I need to add some air to the bag as I get towards the end to help with the flow, but not every time I bottle. I do this by tilting the bag so the wort is away from the spigot and then just opening it. I didn't come up with this idea. It was suggested to me by the store that sold my first beer making kit. As the bag and spigot were only about $3.00, I went for it. It works well for me... John otten at cs.wm.edu or otten at icase.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wednesday, 18 December 1991 10:21am ET From: joshua.grosse at amail.amdahl.com Subject: Cuisinart pasta machine With all the discussion of using pasta makers for grain mills, and the latest discussion of Corona and other mills instigated by my attempts at using a coffee grinder, I thought I'd add in my own comments. I've got a Cuisinart pasta extruder attachment. It uses the food processor motor to drive a feed screw, like the Corona, to force the pasta through extrusion plates. The thing came with six plates to make a wide variety of pasta. All I need is a way to fabricate the business end of a grain mill that could be fastened to the pasta machine. The hopper could hold about 1.5 lbs of malt. Any suggestions? - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Josh Grosse jdg00 at amail.amdahl.com Amdahl Corp. 313-358-4440 Southfield, Michigan Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1991 10:51:39 -0500 (EST) From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas) Subject: Big time bitter I've got a brew that has such a bitter finish that it's virtually undrinkable, and I *like* bitter. It has one 3.3 lb. can of hopped extract, and about 15AAU of whole hops, with 1.5 oz of 9.6 AAU hops steeped for 3 minutes. So it should be somewhat bitter, but this is something else! The beer smells somewhat young, but not "off". It starts somewhat sweet, has normal carbonation, tastes fine, but then WHAM! you get his intense bitter flavor that sticks on your tongue for hours! It's not really like a normal hops bitter flavor either; it's not crisp, it's heavy. One odd thing is that it's taken a month for the bottles to clear; usually they clear in a week or so. Clearing hasn't had any effect on the bitterness. The hops were not really fresh, but they didn't seem bad either. The ferment with Whitbread dry yeast went normally. There are no indications of any infection, unless that's what this bitterness is all about. So what gives? Russ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed Dec 18 10:57:07 1991 From: "William F. Pemberton" <wfp5p at euclid.acc.Virginia.EDU> Subject: More on Chillers With the different designs for chillers showing up, I figured I'd share my experiences for another data point. The counterflow chiller that I use is made from 3/8" OD copper tubing inside a 3/4" ID garden hose. There is about 20 feet of copper tubing in this thing. I have never had a problem with clogging and this thing is FAST. The way I currently brew involves transferring the hot wort from the first floor down to basement level. The drop is about 10 feet, so the flow rate is very high. This chiller has no problems dropping the wort from boil to less then 70 degrees. The total transfer time is usually in the 10-15 minute range. Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 91 10:51:21 EST From: tix!roman at uunet.UU.NET (Daniel Roman) Subject: Immersion wort cooler I'm in the process of aquiring parts to make an immersion wort chiller and wanted to get some opinions on materials for the coil. I plan on using garden hose compatible fittings on entry and exit but have been pondering whether to use copper or brass tubing. Brass should be easier to keep clean but will be more expensive. Any opinions? (Silly question to ask from this group! :-) _____________________________________________________________________ Dan Roman | /// Internet: roman_d at timplex.com Timeplex Inc. | \\\/// GEnie: D.ROMAN1 Woodcliff Lake, NJ | \XX/ Only AMIGA! Homebrew is better brew. ===================================================================== Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 91 11:17:35 -0500 From: steve at endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov Subject: Re: Be gyled C.R. Saikley sez... > >From: hays at voodoo.physics.ucsb.edu > > >I have a question regarding Kraeusening my medium to heavy bodied ales. I > >tried this on my last batch using the formula outlined in Papazian. [snip] > > I've been using this method for 4-5 years now, and have found that > although CP's formula has its limitations, it's pretty good. [ snip snip ] > Now, what this formula fails to account for, is that not all 1.040 > worts are created equal. The ratio of fermentables to nonfermentables > varies considerably, and thus the amount of carbonation varies also. > > If one were so inclined, a formula could be developed based on both > OG (original gravity) and TG (terminal gravity), which gets around > this problem, but has some of its own. To determine the amount of gyle A while back I made a "graphic aid" which allowed me to select the proper ammount of wort to save based on desired CO2 pressure and O.G. without having to crank through the math every time I wanted to brew. I didn't make any allowance for % fermentables (that would take another axis :-), but I suppose that it wouldn't be hard to include such data and make a nomograph, sort of like: % fermentables | | | | | / / / | | / / / | Atm. | / / / | Orig. Gravity pressure | / / / | | / / / | (quantity along the lines) I'll tinker with it sometime over the coming week or two, and if I can come up with a really nice looking graph, I'll make the PostScript available somehow. I derived my "numbers" from Noonan, BTW, and although I don't have them handy to make a comparison, they seem pretty much in agreement with what other people have been reporting. [read that: " I did it right" :-) ] My latest batch of 80-weight only needed 1 pint/five gallons, but I "keg" so the required pressure is lower. Steve Rezsutek Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 91 11:31:12 -0500 From: bradley at adx.adelphi.edu (Robert Bradley) Subject: Chicago beers Talk about Chicago beers in #784: Berghoff's is a big and boistrous German restaurant in the Loop. No trip to Chicago would be complete without a lunch at the Berghoff before or after a visit to the Art Institute (two blocks away). They have their "own" beer, brewed under licence by Heilemann's to the north in Wisconsin. It's available on draught in the restaurant and in the bottle at many local stores. I recall regular and dark...maybe bock is seasonal, maybe a synonym for dark. At any rate, Norm is correct, and perhaps a trifle too generous, wehn he describes it as "good, but not great". Like Augsburger (also from Wisconsin) and the Lowenbrau brewed under licence by you-know-who, Berghoff beers claim to be old-world style but are actually a compromise, having more body than North American beers but neither the bitterness nor the purity of German lagers. And yes, they do taste mass produced. Save your money. Baderbrau [umlaut over the second 'a'], to my limited knowledge, was the first micro in the Chicago area. They seem to have opened up shortly before I moved there in Sept. 1989. Their basic lager is pretty damn good. I would compare it to Sam Adams lager (it seems it's once again OK to admit that I drink the stuff from time to time). Probably better than Sam Adams, IMHO, when it's fresh. Full-bodied, all grain, penty of hallertuaer hops. Cheers, Rob (bradley at adx.adelphi.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1991 08:37:29 -0800 From: krweiss at ucdavis.edu Subject: wet roller mill Kinney Baughman writes: >Your allusion to 'wetware' caused me to think about the possibility of >using the pasta machine as a wet-mill roller. Wet-mills are touted as >the best possible solution to the mill problem. They crush the >grains while generating absolutely no powder. Conjecture tells me >that the wet grains would be 'tackier' and would pass through the >smoother rollers of the pasta machine. That could save roughing up >the rollers so that the machine could still serve that function. It's >probably easier on the machine anyway. I don't think you could still use the pasta machine for pasta if you did this. You'd have to clean up with water. Apparently, if you get a pasta machine wet the noodle dough will stick to it for years after. I dunno why, but you're supposed to clean those things by just waiting for the bits of dough to harden, and brushing them clean. - ------------------------------------------- Ken Weiss krweiss at ucdavis.edu Computing Services 916/752-5554 U.C. Davis 916/752-9154 (fax) Davis, CA 95616 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1991 11:46:49 -0500 (EST) From: Peter Glen Berger <pb1p+ at andrew.cmu.edu> Subject: Hops and bacteria I tend to use mostly hop plugs, but these can be inconvenient for things like making starters. Question: Do hop *pellets* have the same bacteria inhibiting effects as fresh hops? Thanks. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Pete Berger || ARPA: peterb at cs.cmu.edu Professional Student || Pete.Berger at andrew.cmu.edu Univ. Pittsburgh School of Law || BITNET: R746PB1P at CMCCVB Attend this school, not CMU || UUCP: ...!harvard!andrew.cmu.edu!pb1p - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Goldilocks is about property rights. Little Red Riding Hood is a tale of seduction, rape, murder, and cannibalism." -Bernard J. Hibbits - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1991 8:54:18 PST From: BREIN at dsfvax.jpl.nasa.gov Subject: Bottle Fillers When siphoning into bottles I merely hold the flexible vinyl tubing with a pair of needle-nosed pliers. These serve to hold the tube and modulate the flow. The only improvement I can think of would be to add a foot or so of rigid tube to the end of the vinyl. This would make it easier to transfer the tube between bottles. Barry Rein BREIN at gpvax.jpl.nasa.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 91 12:32:45 +0000 From: Dave Coombs <coombs at bashful.cup.hp.com> Subject: Re: Kraeusening >> The Details: Extract/Mash recipe with I.G.=1.040 , Edme ale yeast, >> two weeks in closed plastic fermenter, racked and bottled with 1.4 quarts >> of gyle. I can't speak directly about kraeusening with gyle. I have primed cider and cyser with sweet cider, and your numbers are approx in line with what I calculated to achieve the same weight sugar as 3/4 C corn sugar (5 oz I think) assuming that all weight in excess of the weight of water was due to sugar. I used 5 C of 1.045 cider (modulo memory lapse) for 5 gals. It worked reasonably well, though it was a wee bit less carbonated than I had hoped, but this is exacerbated by the lack of body remaining after Champ. yeast have done their worst. The assumption of all excess weight being fermentable is generally less reasonable for wort. I prime beers with dry malt extract rather than corn sugar (due to allergic friends) and I usually use about 1-1.5 C for ales, and they seem to carbonate more slowly. Others have said here that gyle works better than dry malt ext. dave Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 91 10:49:32 MST From: bill at baku.eece.unm.edu Subject: Re: distilled water and beer Rick writes: >I can get a glass carboy from my local water distributer for $7. >The carboy comes filled with distilled water. Can I use this water >for making beer? I am an extract/specialty grain brewer (ales, stouts...). Then korz at ihlpl.att.com writes: >Yes. Plain and simple. Since you aren't mashing, you don't have to >worry about pH, minerals, etc. .... The bottom line is, you can use >distilled water for extract brewing, but you may want to >optionally add minerals to taste. I both agree and disagree with this comment. I used distilled water for a long time, and I found that I was consistantly ending up with high final gravities. For example, for an O.G. of 1.040, I'd finish at 1.022! When I switched to tap water, this problem went away... thus I am assuming the distilled water was the problem. I figure there just isn't enough nutrients in distilled water to keep the yeast going for very long. Whether or not there are suffient nutrients in your extract I suppose depends on the extract. Apparently the extracts I used were not sufficient (I don't recall what those brands were right now...). So, I'm convinced that if you are going to use distilled water you should add nutrients --- not just for taste, but for proper fermentation. -Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 91 14:15:33 EST From: Tom Dimock <RGG at CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu> Subject: Christmas Beer The Living Section of the 12/18/91 New York Times has an article about seasonal beers, including short reviews of the more commonly available offerings. Return to table of contents
Date: 18 Dec 91 14:27:58 EST From: Jeff Frane <70670.2067 at compuserve.com> Subject: Contract Sam Adams To CR Saikley: Your experience with Blitz-Weinhard is pretty typical, I think, of conctract brewing in general. BW in fact makes a lot of beers that don't have BW's name on them, including Tuborg and a bunch of cheapos. They don't talk about those either, although the Brewmaster told our club tour about them. I got the same blank looks you did years ago at the Olympia brewery when I asked about Smith & Reilly, which they contract-brewed. I guess their attitude is that it's not really *their* beer. Who knows, they might have an inferiority complex about their own beer. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 91 14:49:46 EST From: marc julian <CMSMARC at uga.cc.uga.edu> Greetings and salutations... FREE BEER!!!!!!!! now that I have your attention... I just received my first brew kit in the mail today... I'm looking for advice, support, warnings.. etc... It seems that much of the discussion on this list is about advanced topics... (eg. yeast culturing, counterflow chiller).... how much of this should I be concerned with... I received all malt kits for a pale ale and a dark beer.... any advice on which to start with... thank you in advanced for any response.. - you can reply directly to me at: CMSMARC at uga or respond via the list... I'm going to lock myself in a room and read all my available literature about brewing... marc julian Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 91 15:04:41 -0500 From: zentner at ecn.purdue.edu (Michael Zentner) Subject: bottling wands The topic is back, and I'd thought I'd cast one opinion of dissent. I don't think these are a miracle tool. I don't like using a spigoted bucket for bottling because of sanitation hassles incurred by always having to take the spigot off. I don't even like using a plastic bucket for bottling because of sanitation worries. My bottling wand does not form a perfect seal when it's supposed to be "off". There is as much, if not more aeration with the use of the wand by the initial rush into the bottle than there is with my siphoning technique. I simply like to have a spare carboy around where I can combine the wort and priming solution and siphon from there into the bottles. This way, the only plastic used is the siphon, which I am much less apt to scratch than the bucket or spigot. The speed for bottling is about the same either way. I used the wand for 3 or 4 batches before I decided to nix the idea. That said, I'm not saying that because you use a wand your're doing anything wrong. I'm just saying that not everyone thinks it's such a great idea, and bottling by both methods can be equally as efficient. Mike Zentner zentner at ecn.purdue.edu PS- Maybe I feel this way because I never have lost a siphon. PPS- If anyone wants directions on how I built my garden hose chiller, email me and I'll send you details...free of charge :-) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 91 15:05:21 EST From: Jay Hersh <hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu> Subject: Comments on The Video Review Haven't seem the video myself. Jack wouldn't send me or our club one :-( >I don't know about other brewers, but I stay away from wooden spoons, as is >seen in the video. A stainless steel spoon, or even plastic would be better. >Who knows what is hiding in the porous wood! What difference does it make if the spoon only touches boiling wort?? I always use a wooden spoon to stir my wort, never a problem. Of course once the boil ends the spoon never touches the beer again. - JaH Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 91 13:03:22 PST From: "John Cotterill" <johnc at hprpcd.rose.hp.com> Subject: Auto Mash (Tun) Full-Name: "John Cotterill" Has anyone ever used the 'Auto Mash' mashtun advertised in Zymurgy? I would be interested in any experiences you would care to share. It seems to me that Zymurgy did a product review (I don't remember when, and can't find the issue). I think they gave it a pretty good review, although I think it was quite expensive to purchase. Thanks, JC johnc at hprpcd.rose.hp.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 91 11:59:12 PST From: pierce at chips.com (John Pierce) Subject: Yeast propagation forever?? I was talking to the chief assistant brewer at my local brewpub the other night, and he told me that they have been re-pitching their yeast directly from one batch to the next for well over 200 batches now. They brew 217 gallon batches, using open primary fermentors (brewing a range of lagers) and "just throw a bucketload of yeast from the last batch into the next. I have NEVER had a contaminated or otherwise off-tasting beer in this establishment in the 5 years they've been brewing. (couple of times a couple of years ago, their beer was under-carbonated, but thats the ONLY flaw I've ever noticed). They are brewing continuously, I guess that helps keep the strain consistant. Also, he said they only use the yeast from their regular amber and lager's, and not anything from any of the specialty's (stouts, barleywines, etc). john r pierce Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 91 16:44:07 EDT From: DOBRES%DUVM at pucc.PRINCETON.EDU Subject: life-jackets and snorkels Greg Roody writes that top fermenting yeast wear yellow life-jackets and bottom fermenting yeast have wet suits with snorkels. Snorkels! I find this surprisin g - Fermentation does not require the presence of oxygen. Besides, at that dept h I would have thought scuba-tanks or mini-subs would have been more appropriat e. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 91 16:03 PDT From: CRAIGP%H2VX1 < at relay.hp.com, at ada3.ca.boeing.com:CRAIGP at H2VX1.boeing.com> Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #784 (December 18, 1991) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 91 12:37:25 EST From: gregg at maddog.anu.edu.au (michael gregg) Subject: cancellation Please remove my name from the mailing list. Michael Gregg Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #785, 12/19/91 ************************************* -------
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