---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Infusion, Mash-out, Sparge Efficiency (Russ Pencin)
  mashing and sparging in a BruHeat (Robert Bradley)
  Recycling Yeast (GEOFF REEVES)
  water quality (lg562)
  pasta machines/Video critique (Ed Kesicki)
  Lactobacilus (sour mash) (Aaron Birenboim)
  Busted WYeast Packet (Stephen Russell)
  State fairs? (TSAMSEL)
  AUTOMATED SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE (MIKE LIGAS)
  Berghoff (Tony Babinec)
  Jim Koch (Bruce Buck)
  Re: Blitz-Weinhard (Fritz Keinert)
  russ gelinas brews very bitter beer  (Tony Babinec)
  Cold break (BAUGHMANKR)
  re Be Gyled (Chip Hitchcock)
  re: Re: Liquid Starters (Carl West)
  Re: Phil's Philler -- review (Richard Stueven)
  Great Deal on SS pot??? (John Otten)
  HBD785 (PANDUIT CORP)" <PERSCHAU at MDCBBS.COM>
  holiday beers ("KATMAN.WNETS385")
  Immersion vs. Counter Flow Chillers (Mike Lelivet)
  industrial beer tours (was: Blitz-Weinhard) (Bob Devine  19-Dec-1991 1712)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 18 December 1991 1:14:14 pm
From: pencin at parcplace.com (Russ Pencin)
Subject: Infusion, Mash-out, Sparge Efficiency

I had been out of town for several weeks, so I am posting several observations
that may or may not be relavent at this time.  If so, please ignore them.

1). INFUSION
	I attended the Advance Brewing Science class at UC Davis in September.  Dr.
Lewis is an amazing individual to say the least.  The key word in the
description of this class was "SCIENCE".  The class was aimed at personel of
major breweries who need to understand the process and procedures used to
produce consistant product.  The main point of the mashing lecture was to
scientifically explain why a single step infusion accomplished at 153 degrees
in fact produced a more consistant product than one produced via a step
infusion starting at 122 degrees rising to 155 degrees.  The chemistry of this
process was presented in excruciating detail.  The bottom line was that because
current malting tecniques produce a malt that is highly convertible and that
the protein molecules are locked in a matix that is only broken by protease
enzymes, that a single-step infusion at 153 degrees will produce the optimum
starch conversion without releasing the protein from its matrix. The absolute
requirement here was that the grain be "struck" so that all the grain ended at
exactly the strike temperature expected and stayed there for the entire mash. 
He gave several formulas for calculating the temperature of the strike and
several "techniques" of providing consistant mix of strike water and grain. (
i.e. don't just dump the water onto the grains, instead create two even flows
of materials such that every grain gets hit and mixed with an equivalent stream
of hot water. Not easily accomplished at home alone, but quite simple if
brewing with a friend.  He/she pours the grain in a fine stream,  you pour the
water to meet just above the water line in the mash tun) 
	I have used this technique for the last 5 batches of brew using 3 different
grain types. 2 row Klages,  2 row Muton/Fison English,  and American Munich
malt.  In each case I use my Auto-Mash(tm) preheated to 153 degrees and strike
with 158 degree water.  The advantage to the Auto-Mash(tm) is that it provides
both a stirrer and a +-1 degree water jacketed temperature control.  The
resulting wort has been nothing short of spectacular!.  The Klages and English
complete conversion between 45 and 55 minutes,  the Munich is done in 40-45
minutes.  The "efficiencies" I have obtained consistantly are Klages 1.034, 
M/S English 1.032,  Munich 1.032.  The beers from these mashes do have a slight
chill haze,  but this disipates in less that a week in the fridge ( I only
bottle ).  I will never do a step infusion again,  even if it is dead simple
with the Auto-Mash(tm) because the results from the single-step process are
quicker, clearer, and easier to sparge ( no, I don't know why,  the run-off
just seems to clear quicker and run more smoothly).
2) Mash-out, Sparge Efficiency
	I couldn't help but grin at the "non-use" of the mash-out by many HB's.  I in
fact never used a mash-out (170 degree temp rise) until after the UC class. 
After hearing the lecture on conversion and all of the chemistry involved,  I
had a discussion with Dr. Lewis about the degradation of crystal malts at mash
temperatures.  What I now do is mash my base grains to conversion.  At
conversion I add the Crystal and any other specialty grains ( all finely ground
) to the mash and start my mash-out temperature rise ( 1 degree a minute to 170
degrees ),  allowing the mash to mash-out at 170 for 10 minutes.  I the ladle
the grains into my picnic cooler/ slotted pipe sparger and take ALL of the
initial run-off after recycling about two quarts to get clarity.  Once the
initial run-off is collected I add ~4 gallons of 170 degree water to the tun
and stir the H--- out of it for three minutes. Let is settle for 5 mins, 
recycle about two quarts to set the bed again and take the run-off to the
boiler.  This proceedure has boosted my "efficiency" on an average by 1.005 per
pound of grain.
	My real point here is that adding the Specialty grains during mash-out temp
rise has added a whole new dimension to the flavor/aroma profile of my beers. 
I don't know about you, but one of the constant comments on my score sheets
from competion since I went to all grain has been: 'Needs more malt,  not much
malt aroma".  I now get that heavenly crystal aroma and that pleasing residual
sweetness that I so loved from the extract brews that added "steeped crystal"
liquid to the boil.   I haven't had an opportunity to enter these new beers in
competition yet,  the Lyons Bay Area Brew-off Competion will be the first. 
I'll post my results.

Russ Pencin
Overpaid tool freak and brewer
pencin at parcplace.com
(415) 691-6701

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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 91 17:21:17 -0500
From: bradley at adx.adelphi.edu (Robert Bradley)
Subject: mashing and sparging in a BruHeat

What follows is a copy of some info I shared with a fellow HBDer who
is the proud owner of a new BruHeat bucket.  I actually own an "Electrim
Bin".  As near as I know it's identical to a BruHeat, except that mine is
110 volts (and therefore slower in getting liquids to boil).

I use a hanging grain bag with the trade-name Brewbits.  If you want to try
to make one:  it's cylindrical, with a nylon(?) mesh on the bottom which is
fairly fine and an impervious material making up the side.  The diameter
is perhaps an inch or two less than the interior diameter of the bruheat.
There are four loops at the mouth, and you hang the thing by passing a
string through the loops and tying it around the mouth of the bucket.
On my bucket, there is a rim right at the top, and another a couple of
inches down, so I have two positions for the bag: "down", with the
string at the lip of the bucket, and "up" with the string futher down
pulling the loops up higher.  (I hope this all makes sense :-)

To make average strength beer with a single stage infusion mash:

To make an 8 lb. batch: set the bag to down, add 3 gal. water, raise temp
to about 162 (72 C), add grain.  Temperature outside the bag  should be
good, add a little boiling water to get inside temp to 150-155 range.
Hold 60-90 min.  Raise temp to 175.  Heat off.  Raise bag to up position. 
Drain the wort below the bag and pass it all back through, then 2 1/2
gal sparge water, also at 175.  (As you have already realized, you can't
do _everything_ in the bruheat...my compromise is to heat sparge water
in the pot I used to use for extract brewing).  When sparging is done,
get rid of the bag and spent grains, and perform boil in the bruheat.
I just throw the hops in loose, and I therefore have to pour the contents
out.  If you use a hop bag, you could just drain the wort through the tap.

Further details added the next day:

The Brewbits was purchased at a Wine-Art store in Toronto; sorry I can't
be more helpful than that...mail order across the border is a bit of a
hassle, though not out of the question.  Wine-Art is a national chain,
based in Vancouver.....perhaps they do mail order.  I've not seen it
anywhere else, but a similar item without that trade-name may well be
available somewhere.
    **** If any of you HBDers know where such a bag can be found,
    please tell Jay Marshall (marshall at sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov) ****

As I said yesterday, the bag can be hung in one of two positions.
When "down", there's room for about 1 gallon of liquid below the bag;
just enough to keep it safely above the heating element.  This leaves
approx 2 gal (sure, 2.25 if you like) to combine with the grian in the
bag.  When "up", there's room for maybe 2 gallons below the grain.  So
you have to let wort out of the tap a couple of times during the sparge.
I sometimes boil the first 2 gallons in the same pot I heated the sparge
water in, so as to save some time on the boil (i.e. I combine it with
the rest of the wort in the bruheat once the sparging's done).

Happy sparging!

Rob (bradley at adx.adelphi.edu)

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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 91 15:54:40 -0700
From: 105277 at essdp2.lanl.gov (GEOFF REEVES)
Subject: Recycling Yeast



> What about culturing yeast from your own bottles?
> This is regularly done with Chimays and other imported beers...
> This would allow you weeks/months before starting a new batch.
> Also you have the benefit of "tasting" the results of the yeast
> before you use it.
> 
> Has anyone tried this?
> 


In a word, yes. I brewed up a batch of beer a few years ago only
to find that I had no yeast in the house to pitch into it. What to 
do? Following the Golden Rule of Homebrewing I immediately
tried to relax and poured myself a homebrew. It wasn't until
then that I realized that the stuff at the bottom of the bottle
that I didn't want in my glass was just the stuff I wanted in my
ready-to-ferment beer so I poured it into the carboy. Granted
this isn't the optimal way to start a batch of beer. I didn't
sanatize the bottle neck and I didn't make a starter culture.
But - it worked! It took a while to get started but the beer came
out fine with no contamination or yeast-related problems.
In fact the only problem was that an uninspired recipie made
an uninspiring beer.

See Ya
Geoff

Atomic City Ales
Los Alamos New Mexico
- ------------------------------

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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 91 16:25:52 PST
From: lg562 at koshland.pnl.gov
Subject: water quality

   Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1991 14:18:34 -0600
   >From: "John A. Palkovic" <scientist at lupulus.ssc.gov>

   In his book, Papazian says (p. 79)

      ... information about the contents of your drinking water supply is
      available at no cost from your local water department

   What exactly should I ask my water dept.? Should I call or write? Is
   there a law that says they have to supply this info at no cost?

I called the City of Richland (WA) and after three iterations with the
city's central switchboard, I finally talked to someone who knew the
answers.  He supplied me with photocopies of the mineral content as
well as the halocarbon report (doesn't have anything to do with
homebrewing, but I was curious!).  You might want to be a little more
specific about which minerals you want to know about.  The report I
got told me all about minerals like Cd, Pb, Hg, etc.  It did state
what the hardness was (as CaCO3), but didn't include anything about
either Mg or SO4.  The gentleman I spoke with was a little apologetic
about the hardness of the city water -- medium hard, until I told him
that to a homebrewer this is just fine.  After looking at the report,
and comparing to the latest Zymurgy article, I would need to add a
little gypsum to duplicate the hard waters used by major European
brewers (Pils Urquell excepted).

As for cost, I just asked for the report and it was sent.  No one
mentioned any costs.  Perhaps your city will be as nice.

Michael Bass
Molecular Science Research Center, K2-18
Battelle - Pacific Northwest Laboratory
Richland, Washington  99352
lg562 at pnl.gov


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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 91 17:37:00 PST
From: ek at chem.UCSD.EDU (Ed Kesicki)
Subject: pasta machines/Video critique


Let me tell you a story about an experience I had with a hand-cranked
pasta maker.  My Italian-American mother has had one of these since I
can remember; one day in the 1970's, my friend and I thought it would
be fun to put little army men through the rollers.  Well, it *was* fun--
really flattened those guys.  However, it also broke the machine; 
somehow the rollers got pulled apart permanently.  And my mother was 
really P.O'd (she still mentions it from time to time). 

Anyway, I don't
mean to say that crushing little plastic army men is the same as crushing
malt, but I just thought I'd warn you that these pasta makers are not
indestructible.  I think, however, that you will know if you are using
too much force to crank the thing; we really had to use a lot of force to
get those guys to go thru.

About the Jack S. video:  I saw it, and I liked it.  It seemed to give all
the basic info for a beginning extract brew.  My roommate and I have
brewed 13 batches since April, so the video was a little too basic for
our needs.  I found nothing too offensive in it, however, except the guy from
Baderbrau Brewery who said "malt, hops, water, and yeast" about a thousand
times--very annoying. And oh yes--the fruit flies--I had forgotten about
them--thanks, Robert.

One minor point for you amateur geographers: The city where a lot of Sam
Adams is brewed is called
Pittsburgh, not Pittsburg--I know, I grew up there.

Ed Kesicki
San Diego, CA



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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 91 19:02:57 MST
From: abirenbo at rigel.hac.com (Aaron Birenboim)
Subject: Lactobacilus (sour mash)



   Well, I'm giving sour mashing another try.  My first attempt produced
a nasty infection, but NOT lactic acid producing bacteria.  I am going
to give it another try, but this time i plan to try to give the
lactic acid producers a boost.

   I do not have culturing equipment (yet!), and i have found
"buttermilk starter" hard to find.  I do have a plentiful supply
of "acidopholis".  This is commonly found in stores to help people
with digestion problems.

  All acidopholis products mention "Lactobacillus acidopholis" on the label,
but many are mentioning strains.  Here is a partial list of the beasties i saw
mentioned, and product name where i remember it.

   Solgar multi-acidopholis
      L. Bifidus
      L. Bulgaricus

  bio-flora
      L. Acidopholis 49
                     SF77
           do these numbers mean anthing?  This is the product i bought
           since the inactive ingredient is barley malt.  I assume malt
           was the culturing media... hence these beasties should be able
           to metabolize beer wort.

    Natures Life : Lactobacillis Acidopholis strain #3208
          once again, does this number really mean something in the real world?

  Natrin Digesta-lac
         L.  Bulgaricus

   other brands listed :
         L. Casei
         L. Bifidus

One bottle mentioned that L. Bulgaricus is synonimous with
L delbreuickii.  yes...  delbreuickii (sp?) as in hefe-weizen
yeast.  I wonder how and if Lactobacillus delbreuickii and
Sacranemonicus (sp?) delbreuickii are related?

   Could a person who knows a bit about microbiology shed some light
on the subject?

   I plan to run my mash thursday night, and boil fri night or sat morning.
I need to brew soon, since my Wyeast starter has already fermented out, and is
in the fridge.  I will need a new starter friday.

        aaron
        abirenbo%rigel.cel.scg.hac.com at hac2arpa.hac.com

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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 91 0:56:01 EST
From: srussell at snoopy.msc.cornell.edu (Stephen Russell)
Subject: Busted WYeast Packet

Hey all,

	My brewing partner (Tom Strasser -- strasser at raj3.tn.cornell.edu) and 
I just popped a package of WYeast (#2308 -- Munich Lager -- dated 4/91) and
at the same time that the inner seal popped, the *outer* seal ruptured as well,
shooting out some of the precious yeastily fluids.  Well, we were unsure of 
what to do but decided that whatever it was, we should probably do it right
away.  We made a real dilute starter (like 1.010-1.015) and dumped in what
remained.
	First of all:  what would *you* do?   We couldn't get more 2308 as the
brewshop in town doesn't carry it.  Is it hopelessly naive to think that it's
salvageable?  Secondly, how should we assess the starter before committing it
to a whole 5 gallon batch?  This is a tough one, since we plan to brew several
batches from it.  Our plan is to go with it, as long as it appears to be a 
normal starter:  looks, smells and tastes OK.
	Anyone ever have this happen to them before (I would suspect the ever-
luckless Martin Lodahl :-) ??  Just in case, watch out for 2308s of that lot,
i.e., have a spare handy. 
	
Yours in the Suds,

STEVE

ps by the way, the fluids that _did_ shoot out tasted sweet.  So either the
inner and outer packets mixed right away or else the sugar solution is the
outer one.  (despite previous net statements to the contrary)

- -- 
===============================================================================
Stephen Russell
Graduate Student, Department of Materials Science and Engineering

Internet:  srussell at snoopy.msc.cornell.edu    work:  607-255-4648
Bitnet:	   srussell at crnlmsc3.bitnet           home:  607-273-7306
===============================================================================




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Date:    Thu, 19 Dec 1991 7:45:57 -0500 (EST)
From: TSAMSEL at ISDRES.ER.USGS.GOV
Subject: State fairs?

Our brew club is in the process of organizing the first Virginia Home Brewing
competition. I know that each state is idiosyncratic re: the
organization of fairs, but if anyone has any insight or
experience in this vein, we'd like to hear it.
  Since I can't edit on this furshlugginer demon box, I meant to
say that the competition was to be part of the Virginia State Fair
activities. (You know, best hawg, best cheese,.... the local
wineries have a competition..commercial that is..)
   I think this will be club entries, but I'm not totally sure of
that.
   Feliz navidad you all, Ted

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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1991 09:57 EDT
From: MIKE LIGAS <LIGAS at SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA>
Subject: AUTOMATED SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE

The subscription and unsubscription process to HD is automated. Send letters to:
			homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com

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	Send a letter to the above address which is entitled: SUBSCRIBE
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If you unsubscribe you will receive no confirmation but you will not receive
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				- Mike -

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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 91 9:21:15 CST
From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec)
Subject: Berghoff

At the turn of the century, Berghoff was brewed in Fort Wayne,
Indiana.  I don't know what all happened to that brewery, but through
the years it changed hands.  Until recently, they brewed Ballantine's
India Pale Ale (yum!) there and other beers such as Falstaff.
To my knowledge, the Fort Wayne brewery is now closed.  See the old
Berghoff can amongst Oldenberg's breweriana collection in Ft.
Mitchell, Kentucky, outside Cincinnati.

Meanwhile, the Berghoff restaurant in downtown Chicago is a thriving
establishment popular with both locals and out-of-towners.  On the
premises is the Berghoff stand-up bar, with both a beautiful bar and
inlaid woodwork behind the bar.  The stand-up bar was, like McSorley's
in New York, an all-male club until circa 1970, and of course now is
open to the general public.

In the time I've been drinking its beer, it has served a light
(Dortmund) and a dark (American Dark).  In local stores, you'd find a
seasonal bottled bock (American Bock), which cannot be compared in
gravity or flavor to the great German bocks or doppelbocks.  Berghoff
beer served on tap on the premises, and found regionally in bottles,
is brewed at the Berghoff-Huber brewery in Monroe, Wisconsin, formerly
the Huber brewery.  Huber brewed a coupled dozen regional beers, and
is perhaps best regarded for launching Augsberger, since sold to
Strohs.  Berghoff-Huber is the source of such collector beers as
Harley-Davidson Heavy beer and Foecking (get it?) beer.

The news for the general beer public is that Berghoff has bought and
refurbished the defunct Siebens brewery in the River North area of
Chicago on west Ontario.  Siebens was selling a reasonable quantity
of its brewpub beer, which was generally okay, but it sunk for a number
of business reasons (the board got rid of the founder, the restaurant
concept varied, was pricy, and indifferently executed, etc.).  Berghoff
bought the place, refurbished the inside, and is brewing there.  On
tap on recent visits were:  light lager, dark lager, Maerzen, as well as
several ales, including an amber ale, a porter, and a stout.  The beer
is brewed on premise; the kettles are visible just behind the great
bar.  I can't comment on the restaurant operation, as I haven't eaten
there yet.  But, Berghoff is to be congratulated for running what so far
appears to be a good beer operation.

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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 91 10:35:10 EST
From: ptsys1!beb at uu.psi.com (Bruce Buck)
Subject: Jim Koch


Is he related to the Kochs of Dunkirk, NY who ran the Fred Koch Brewery until
Genessee bought them out a few years back?

Is his name pronounced Cook, Kotch or Coke?

Speaking of Fred Koch, did anyone try the porter he came out with shortly before
the brewery closed?  It was intended to commemorate the fiftieth anniversary of
Repeal and in my mind fairly good stuff.

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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 91 09:50:49 CST
From: Fritz Keinert <keinert at iastate.edu>
Subject: Re: Blitz-Weinhard

In HBD #785, Richard Childers writes

> I was up in Portland, attending classes at Sequent, and had the
> opportunity to tour the Blitz-Weinhard Brewery. It was a waste of
> time, alas. I wish to save anyone else so inclined, from wasting their
> time.
> ...  
> My interpretation of this is that, while they malt their own grains,
> they have also found it convenient to manufacture their own corn
> starch onsite, but find it sells better if they refer to such as
> 'grains' instead of 'starches'.

I toured Blitz-Weinhard a couple of years ago, with similar
experiences. After the tour, I asked the guide where they made their
malt, since I had not seen anything like that anywhere. He had no clue
what I was talking about. Sort of like "Malt? What is that?". Another
guide that he asked for help told us that their malt was made by an
independent malting company in Vancouver, WA, across the river.

Maybe that has changed, but more likely it is a case of different tour
guides telling different stories.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fritz Keinert                             phone:  (515) 294-5128
Department of Mathematics                 fax:    (515) 294-5454
Iowa State University                     e-mail: keinert at iastate.edu
Ames, IA 50011


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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 91 9:55:26 CST
From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec)
Subject: russ gelinas brews very bitter beer 

In a recent HBD, Russ Gelinas describes a batch of beer from:  one can
of hopped (!) extract, an addition of 15 AAU of bittering hops, and
1.5 ounces of late hops.  Assuming the usual 5 gallon batch, and a
boil of at least 45 minutes to 1 hour, that's a lot of hops, even for a
hophead!

One can of extract in a 5 gallon batch will produce a beer of starting
gravity of about 1025-30.  By comparison, English ordinary bitters come
in at about 1035-1038.  However, the English bitter will have 20-25
BUs bitterness, which translated to AAUs is somewhere around 6-8 AAUs.
So, Russ's beer has somewhat less SG than a bitter, but twice the
hops, the effect of which is too much bitterness.  So, an obvious
adjustment in the next batch is to lessen the hops.  Also, why use
hopped extract?  Use unhopped extract and perform the hopping
yourself, which affords you more control.  

There isn't much you can do about the current hoppy batch, other than
age and refrigerate it.  Some hoppiness might go away, but the older
the beer, the more likely oxidation will take place, which makes the
beer less drinkable. 

At the expense of a second can of extract, you can brew a beer of
greater gravity, which will enable you to add more hops without such a
dramatic effect on malt-hop balance.  Don't substitute too much sugar
for malt, as sugar will completely ferment out, giving rise to
thinness, a cidery flavor, and perhaps too much alcohol for the
style.

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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1991 11:55 EDT
From: BAUGHMANKR at CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU
Subject: Cold break

Jim White writes concerning cold breaks:

>I expected a huge mass of cold break material to have settled out with the
>quick chilling and prolonged intense cooling. Though I'm not absolutely
>positive I can identify cold break material, there was little mass of yuch
>at the bottom of the bucket. What gives? Could this be because of the skimming?
>Is the thick mass of foam that forms at the beginning of the boil the
>same material that forms the cold break?

I read a study in a technical brewing journal that concluded that 
"quick chilling" is defined by shocking the wort cool, as in a few 
seconds, not chilling the entire mass quickly, as in ten minutes.  
This is one of the technical reasons why I like counter-flow chillers, 
BTW.  Taking the wort temp down close to freezing probably had little 
effect on the break.  But if you do this after bottling, it will have 
an effect on the clearing of chill haze (also the result of proteins).  
It takes a couple of weeks though. 

The thick mass of foam forming at the beginning of the boil is 
predominantly proteinaceous material, the same stuff that forms the 
cold break.  That being the case, I think skimming does lessen the 
amount of cold break. 

Kinney Baughman                   |   Beer is my business and
baughmankr at conrad.appstate.edu    |   I'm late for work.
 


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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 91 11:41:57 EST
From: cjh at vallance.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: re Be Gyled

>From: grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
>
>this problem, but has some of its own. To determine the amount of gyle
>to hold back for priming, you'd have to be able to predict the TG
>beforehand (difficult, especially if it's a new recipe), or hold back
>extra and only use what's called for after measuring the TG (read
>wasted beer!).

Not if you rack away from the trub before pitching! I've found that I have
to leave some liquid behind after what I consider a safe settling time
(given temperature and equipment) to avoid picking up lightly-settled trub.
After racking, I pour off everything remaining that will pour easily into a
sterile container, refrigerate, and decant after a few days (sometimes more
than once). This is wort that couldn't be salvaged otherwise, it's being
kept a short enough time that it's not likely to pick up an infection at
~2C (if I think it might, I can always measure what I need and boil it),
and the trub settles much more thoroughly in a few days and is unlikely
(from all comments I've seen) to affect the flavor in the absence of yeast.
I've been short of gyle for bitter, which I've tried to make
less-carbonated; for a standard batch you might have to save a little more
(look at what you poured off and estimate amount needed versus amount on
hand * % liquid).

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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 91 11:55:21 EST
From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West)
Subject: re: Re: Liquid Starters

John DeCarlo stated:
>I don't know of any
>good reason to put hops in your starter, but there might be some.

The reason that leaps to mind is to take advantage of the anti-bacterial 
properties of hops. It should help to keep those non-yeast beasties down.

I hope someone will check me on this, I think that while the bitterness 
and aroma of the hops decrease with age, their anti-bacterial-ness remains 
relatively intact. If so, it seems like a good use for old hops.

Carl

WISL,BM.


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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 91 10:08:30 PST
From: Richard.Stueven at Corp.Sun.COM (Richard Stueven)
Subject: Re: Phil's Philler -- review

In HBD# 784, Arthur Delano <ajd at itl.itd.umich.edu> mentions:

>I've always bottled with a bottling bucket, with a spigot attached (no
>stopped siphonings for me!) and a length of 3/8" dia. tubing leading to the
>bottles.  After two batches of this setup, having to pinch the hose and
>dribble beer all over the floor between bottles was getting to me, and I
>wanted a filler.

I used to do it this way, but after mopping up spilled - no, WASTED -
beer one too many times, I got rid of the tubing.  I bottle right out
of the spigot.  If you watch the flow rate, you won't get any foaming
in the bottles.  I haven't had any oxidation problems like I thought I
might.  Give it a go!

I also agree with those who say that the traditional bottling wand
leaves too much headspace in the bottle.  On the other hand, I've been
accused of leaving too *little* headspace (<=0.5") in my bottles, so go
figure.

Richard Stueven       AHA# 22584 |----------|
Internet:       gak at Corp.Sun.COM |----GO----| Disclaimer: I'm not allowed to
ATTMAIL:         ...!attmail!gak |---SHARX--|             have opinions.
Cow Palace: Sec 107 Row F Seat 8 |----------|

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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 91 13:35:40 EST
From: otten at cs.wm.edu (John Otten)
Subject: Great Deal on SS pot???

I was poking around one of the local Oriental Markets last night, and I
noticed some large stainless steel pots they were selling. There was
the number 27 followed by a Korean symbol (which I guess was the word for
liter or quart), and the handle looped from one side to the other (like
on a bucket). The thing that caught my eye the most though was the price--
$45!!!.  And that included the lid, and a whole bunch of accessories that
looked like steaming racks & stuff. I guess the whole thing was a kind of
all purpose food steamer/kettle/(and hopefully brewpot).

However... The metal was thin. It looked sturdy enough, but when I read about
others and their SS brewpots, I figure they are talking about the pots
that are about 3/16" thick. The thickness of the pots I saw was about the
same as one of those spun aluminum pots & pans that you can get at K-mart
for about $3.50 (about 1/32" ?). I think that the pot is plenty durable enough
to hold 5 gallons of wort, but I would be concerned about scorching the bottom
of the pot while boiling. I use my electric stove for the boiling (not a blast
furnace like several other readers :-), so I am not too worried about this.

ANYWAY, I am wondering if others have seen/used pots with metal this thin, and
whether they had (or didn't have) problems. I will probably go buy it anyway,
as right now I use a 4 gallon enamel pot to brew, and that doesn't seem to be
much thicker...

ALSO... I noticed 1 lb bags of dried malt for $1.95. My brewing supply store
charges $12.00 for a 3 lb bag. Is this the same sort of malt!??!!?!

If this is good news for SS pot hunters, remember, you heard it here first! :-)

John
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
otten at cs.wm.edu         |          If I don't like they way someone makes
or			|	   their Homebrew, I don't argue with them,
otten at icase.edu		|	   I just don't drink their beer....
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------



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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1991 11:11 PST
From: "BOB PERSCHAU (PANDUIT CORP)" <PERSCHAU at MDCBBS.COM>
Subject: HBD785


>From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
>Subject: Big time bitter
>
>   I've got a brew that has such a bitter finish that it's virtually
>undrinkable, and I *like* bitter.

    SNIP SNIP

>it's heavy.  One odd thing is that it's taken a month for the bottles
>to clear; usually they clear in a week or so.  Clearing hasn't had any
>effect on the bitterness.

    SNIP SNIP

 I had the same story with my Holiday brew.  In fact I've named this batch
 "HOPPY HOLIDAYS"  It starts out with a real good malt taste... but then
 WHAMM!  The bitterness even covers up the spices I added.

>Date: Wed, 18 Dec 91 11:31:12 -0500
>From: bradley at adx.adelphi.edu (Robert Bradley)
>Subject: Chicago beers
>
>Talk about Chicago beers in #784:

    SNIP SNIP

>Baderbrau [umlaut over the second 'a'], to my limited knowledge, was the
>first micro in the Chicago area.  They seem to have opened up shortly
>before I moved there in Sept. 1989.  Their basic lager is pretty damn
>good.  I would compare it to Sam Adams lager (it seems it's once again
>OK to admit that I drink the stuff from time to time).  Probably better
>than Sam Adams, IMHO, when it's fresh.  Full-bodied, all grain, penty
>of hallertuaer hops.
>
>Cheers,
>Rob (bradley at adx.adelphi.edu)

 When Midway airlines was still around, I used my frequent flier miles to get
 first class upgrades.  All the Baderbrau you could handle!

 Good brewing,
 Bob
 perschau at mdcbbs.com


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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 91 20:28 GMT
From: "KATMAN.WNETS385" <6790753%356_WEST_58TH_5TH_FL%NEW_YORK_NY%WNET_6790753 at mcimail.com>
Subject: holiday beers



     Date: 19-Dec-91      Time: 03:25 PM       Msg: EXT02440

Hi there brew folks,
this was taken directly from the Wednesday, December 18, 1991 NY Times. It's
an article (mentioned yesterday in the HBD) about seasonal holiday beers.
Enjoy.

FOR CHRISTMAS TOASTING TIME, HAVE A BEER, BUT NOT JUST ANY

By Florence Fabricant

For that holiday spirit, this may be the year for beer. With Champagne prices
through the roof (and eggnog full of fat), beer certainly suits leaner times.

But not just any beer. And certainly not an ordinary six-pack of something
industrial -- suitable when your team has won, perhaps, but not for Yuletide
toasting. For the holidays, there are other, more appropriate choices: the
seasonal Christmas brews. If you consider the special Christmas bottles of
Coca-Cola, the special Christmas blend from Starbuck's Coffee -- even the
Christmas brandy made by Germain-Robin in California -- it makes sense that
brewers are also cashing in on Christmas.

Still, these beers represent something more than a marketer's dreams. They're
part of a venerable beer-making tradition that is being revived around the
country with great success.

"Beers for the season are a staple in Europe and even some of the big
breweries in America used to make them," said Paul Shipman, the president of
the Red Hook Ale Brewery, a micro brewery in Seattle, which has been making
Winterhook, a rich, full-bodied seasonal ale, since 1986. "This year, we
increased our production by 50 percent and probably could have sold even
more," Mr. Shipman said.

Like all of the Christmas beers, Winterhook goes on sale in November; by
Christmas, the stores are usually sold out. Traditionally, before beer making
became industrialized, these were the first beers brewed in the fall.

Holiday beers and ales are typically dark, rich and full bodied -- the better
to complement heavier, spicier holiday and winter food. And brewers often use
special yeasts, hops and malts for these products.
"All the malt in Winterhook came from one farmer who malted the barley
especially for us," Mr. Shipman said.
Another characteristic of these brews is a higher alcohol content, usually 5
to 7 percent, than the beers and ales made the rest of the year. One Christmas
beer, Samichlaus (Santa Claus) from Switzerland, is made with 14 percent, bet-
ter to sip by the fire than at the beach.

Many of the American micro breweries that now make these seasonal beers are
inspired by English-style ales like Samuel Smith's Winter Welcome. D. L.
Geary's Hampshire Special Ale, made in Portland, Me., is one such ale, with a
robust flavor and an alcohol content of 7 percent.

>From Mexico comes the dark Noche Buena, made by Moctezuma, the company better
known for Dos Equis and Superior. There are also entries from Norway, the
Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark and Germany. The Swiss Samichlaus is made once a
year on Dec. 6 (St. Nicholas Day), then not released for sale until the
following November.

At his Eureka Brewery in Los Angeles, Wolfgang Puck, a co-owner, made a
Christmas lager for the first time this year. "It's the kind of malty amber
beer I remember," he said. "It goes with the heavier food like venison we tend
to serve at this time of year." Eureka's Christmas beer is only served on tap
in the restaurant and is not bottled for retail sale.

Beyond just showing holly on the six-pack, what sets all these beers apart is
their limited availability. It's partly marketing, to be sure, but these beers
are definitely different from the regular lines. "It's fun for our customers
to have something different, and it helps keep people interested in a season
when things are slower," said Marcia King, the president of the New England
Brewing Company in Norwalk, Conn., which makes Holiday Ale.

At the Adolph Coors Brewing Company (a company not usually known for
distinctive-tasting brews), the brewmaster had concocted a special beer just
for the owners to have at Christmas. "Then, at one point," said Gina Freize, a
spokeswoman for the company, "they began sharing it with the employees. Six
years ago, we began making enough to share with the whole state of Colorado."

For the last four years, Coors Winterfest has been sold nationally. With
production now up to around 4.5 million bottles, it dwarfs the quantities of
most of the winter beers made by the micro breweries. For some breweries both
large, like Coors and small like D. L. Geary, a winter beer is the only
seasonal beer they make.

But in the centuries before yeasts were understood, temperatures controlled
and pasteurization a standard practice, beer making was strictly a seasonal
activity, with various beers made for different times.

No beer was made during the summer, as the hot weather could spoil the beer
because there was no refrigeration. Beer making would get under way in the
fall, after the harvest when the heat had faded.

"These customs are at the root of brewing," said Michael Jackson, the author
of "The New World Guide to Beer" (Running Press, 1988). "The fact that you're
not constrained by the seasons doesn't mean you can't celebrate them."



BREWS FROM NEAR AND FAR

Here are just a few of the Christmas beers out now. Many, the fruits of
micro-breweries, are sold only in specific parts of the country. Most are
available until the end of the year or through mid-January.

Anchor Brewing Special Ale -- Anchor Brewing Company, San Francisco, Calif.
This medium-amber ale makes a good head and has a toasty aroma and rich,
mellow slightly winey flavor. Available nationally.

Catamount Christmas Ale -- Catamount Brewing Company, White River Junction,
Vt. This medium-amber ale combines the bitter flavor of hops with hints of
walnuts and coffee. Available in the Northeast.

Hampshire Special Ale -- D. L. Geary Brewing Company, Portland Me. With a
tealike aroma, this medium amber ale has a bitter flavor mellowed by malty
sweetness. Available in the Northeast.

New England Holiday Ale -- New England Brewing Company Norwalk, Conn. This ale
is a deep, reddish amber with a spicy bouquet and slightly bitter taste with
cinnamon and nutmeg seasoning. Available in Connecticut and Massachusetts.

Samichlaus Bier -- Brauerei Hurlimann, Zurich. This dark, strong (14 percent
alcohol), rich and malty-sweet lager is excellent to drink with chocolate
desserts. Available nationwide in major cities.

Samuel Adams Winter Lager -- Boston Beer Company, Boston. This medium amber
beer is full-bodied and mellow with a pleasantly bitter finish. Available
nationally in major cities.

Samuel Smith Winter Welcome Ale -- Samuel Smith Brewery, Tadcaster, Yorkshire,
England. A medium amber ale with a rich, malty aroma and a full bodied, tangy
flavor. Available nationally.

Seasons Best -- F. X. Matt Brewing Company, Utica, N.Y. This light amber beer
has a malty aroma and a fairly bland flavor. Available in New York and New
Jersey.

Sierra Nevada Celebration Ale -- Sierra Nevada Brewing Company Chico, Calif.
This is a medium amber ale with a fruity aroma and an excellently balanced
flavor that combines the bitterness of hops with the sweetness of malted
barley. Available nationally.

Winterfest Beer -- Coors Brewing Company, Golden, Colo. A relatively
light-bodied medium amber beer with a moderately rich flavor and a nice,
bitter hoppy finish. Available nationally.

Winterhook Christmas Ale -- Red Hook Ale Brewery, Seattle, Wash. This
fullbodied, medium amber ale keeps a good, creamy head, has a toasty coffee
aroma and a rich flavor. Available in the Rockies and Pacific Northwest.

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lee Katman == Thirteen/WNET == New York, NY

=Do not= use REPLY or ANSWERBACK, I can not receive mail in that fashion.
Please send all mail to
INTERNET katman.wnets385%wnet_6790753 at mcimail.com
OR
MCIMAIL EMS: wnet 6790753  MBX: katman.wnets385



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Date:         Thu, 19 Dec 91 18:31:09 EST
From: Mike Lelivet <UTB at CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:      Immersion vs. Counter Flow Chillers


With all of the talk around of diameter of counterflow copper tubing,
this beginner must pose the question of the advantages of counterflow
chilling to an immersion chiller.  To me sanitation, which would be my
primary overlying concern, would be easier with an immersion style
chiller.  Please enlighten the ignorant!

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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 91 16:29:14 PST
From: Bob Devine 19-Dec-1991 1712 <devine at cookie.enet.dec.com>
Subject: industrial beer tours (was: Blitz-Weinhard)

Richard Childers writes:
> I [...] had the opportunity to tour the Blitz-Weinhard Brewery.
> Summary: don't waster your time.  You'll learn more brewing one batch[...]

Ahh yes, the joys of industrial beer tours!  It is part chemical factory
and part make-the-world-safe-for-stupid-tourists.  The average tour
is definitely NOT for the knowledgable brewer.

I've toured Pabst (before they were bought); A-B plants in Colorado and
New Hampshire; Schiltz; Miller; and Coors.  Plus a dozen brewpubs.

The guiding principles of industrial beer tours are:
  1) the guide knows less than you do
  2) the tours never go to the interesting areas (culture lab, granaries, etc)
  3) you will have to listen to company sales propoganda
  4) a recent addition is listening to the "safe drinking" lecture
  5) you will be herded from site to site quickly
  6) you only get 2 beers at the end :-(


I've set up an in-depth tour at Coors for the Colorado Springs homebrew club
for early February.  I'll report back if this non-standard tour goes well.

Bob Devine

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #786, 12/20/91
*************************************
-------

---