---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Baderbrau Bottling Fining (Jack Schmidling)
  Anchor Date Code ("Rad Equipment")
  Anchor Date Code                      Time:4:03 PM     Date:12/19/91
  Scrubber + Pellets = Trubble, Cold Break (John Hartman)
  King Gambrinus? (Bob Devine  19-Dec-1991 1730)
  fillers (chip upsal)
  Pre-crushed grain (Walter H. Gude)
  Re: distilled water and beer (Walter H. Gude)
  Immersion Chiller... (Walter H. Gude)
  RE: Homebrew Digest #786 (December 20, 1991) (GFT_JAMES)
  bitter brew (Russ Gelinas)
  BORNEO (Paul Yatrou)
  burst Wyeast (Frank Tutzauer)
  chicago-area homebrewers monthly get together (Tony Babinec)
  Re: Russ Pencin's mash procedure (Aaron Birenboim)
  Phil's Philler
  Austin, Texas homebrew supply (Donald Oconnor)
  Santa Fe?? (BAUGHMANKR)
  Pasta machines, wet milling (Mark J. Easter)
  Re: bottling wands (korz)
  Percise bottling, Xmas beers. ("DRCV06::GRAHAM")
  umlauts, bottle fillers, dried malt and SS pots (Arthur Delano)
  Berghoff (Michael Benveniste)
  Conveyor mill (korz)
  STUFF and undercarbonation (Brian Bliss)
  SS POT ON ELECTRIC STOVE (ALTENBACH)
  amylase (Brian Bliss)
  How Did You Know, Stephen? (Martin A. Lodahl)
  Winning Blue Ribbons  ( bad beer of old) (Robb Holmes)
  Lager temps? ("N. Zentena")


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Dec 91 12:06 CST
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Baderbrau Bottling Fining


 mailx -s "Baderbraw Bottling Conditioning" homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com arf
 
 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling
 
 From: bradley at adx.adelphi.edu (Robert Bradley)
 Subject: Chicago beers
 
 >Baderbrau [umlaut over the second 'a'], to my limited knowledge, was the
 first micro in the Chicago area..... Probably better than Sam Adams, IMHO, 
 when it's fresh.  Full-bodied, all grain, penty of hallertuaer hops.
 
 For what it is worth, Ken Pavechevich, founder and CEO makes a big issue out 
 of claiming the use of only Saaz hops.
 
 Also for what it is worth, I added 1/2 oz of Saaz to my last batch at the end 
 of the boil.  This is addition to the "standard" 1 oz of Chinook.  It will be 
 interesting to see I can tell the difference.
 
 From: zentner at ecn.purdue.edu (Michael Zentner)
 Subject: bottling wands
 
 
 > There is as much, if not more aeration with the use of
 the wand by the initial rush into the bottle than there is with my
 siphoning technique.
 
 After the drubbing I got over aeration and oxidation, I noticed this 
 immediately.  The simple cure is to lift the bottle to reduce the "head" and 
 tilt it till the end is covered.  You can then put it back down and continue 
 the process in the normal fashion.
 
 It's a little extra work, but if one is an oxidation freak, it beats the 
 other tricks I have seen so far.
 
 ........
 
 Fining.
 
 I gave up on waiting for my beer to clear and have fined 4 batches with 
 gelatin.  The speed with which this stuff works is mind boggling.  After 30 
 days, my all grain generic beer, is still so hazy that about all I can see 
 through it is a flash light.  Three days after fining, it is sparklingly 
 clear.  This was even true on one batch, only a week after pitching.
 
 I rationalize that my beer is still Reinheightgbot because the gelatin is 
 only a temporary resident.
 
 According to Noonan, gelatin will only work at temperatures below 55 degs.  
 It happens to be almost that cold in my basement these days but can anyone 
 refute this seeming momily?
 
 I would also be interested in any comments on taste/flavor or other effects 
 of fining with gelatin.  Yeh, I know, it ain't Kosher.  Or is it if you leave 
 it behind by racking?
 
 js
 
 
 
ZZ

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Date: 19 Dec 91 16:05:32 U
From: "Rad Equipment" <rad_equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Anchor Date Code

Subject:  Anchor Date Code                      Time:4:03 PM     Date:12/19/91
New Anchor Bottling Date Code

Jim Homer requested I investigate this for you all...

I spoke with Mark Carpenter, brewmaster at Anchor Brewing Company, about the
new date code that they are using since they changed their label to a dual
design, putting the government warning on the back of the bottle.  If you are
still getting bottles with single labels, the beer is older than October, 1991.

The new date code replaces the clock-face which used to show the bottling month
as one of 12 small notches around the main label.  A three character code is
now included on the new back label of the bottle.  The code works like this:

The first character is always numeric and represents the last digit of the
year.  Currently you are seeing a "1" in this spot.

The second character is always alpha and represents the month by using the
first letter in a month which has not previously been used.  So:

	January	= J
	February	= F
	March	= M
	April	= A
	May		= Y
	June		= U
	July		= L
	August	= G
	September	= S
	October	= 0
	November	= N
	December	= D

The third character in the code is either alpha or numeric and tells the day of
the month.  The first 26 days are represented by the alphabet with the
remaining days listed as:

	27th thru 29th	= 7 thru 9
	30th			= 3
	31st			= 1

They didn't use 0 (zero) for the 30th because the labeler makes it's "O's"
(letter O) the same way it makes it's "0's" (zeros).

So today's (12/19/91) bottling reads: 1DS 

This code was originally created by Fritz Maytag for use on his PC to identify
file dates with 3 characters.

Happy Holidays to all!

RW...


      Russ Wigglesworth              CI$:      72300,61
|~~|  UCSF Medical Center            Internet: Rad Equipment at RadMac1.ucsf.edu
|HB|\ Dept. of Radiology, Rm. C-324  Voice:    415-476-3668 / 474-8126 (H)
|__|/ San Francisco, CA 94143-0628


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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 91 11:11:43 -0500
From: hartman at varian.varian.com (John Hartman)
Subject: Scrubber + Pellets = Trubble, Cold Break

- --Copper Scrubbers revisited--
This is a follow-up to a post regarding the use of copper scrubbers in HBD
#776.  In that post I pointed out that the use of cheese cloth over a copper
pot scrubber at the end of my siphon had caused severe blockages.  I have
since learned that the real problem is not the cheese cloth but the combination
of the pot scrubber and pellet hops.  The last batch I made I used up some
old pellet hops for the boil.  I usually use whole hops from Freshops.  I
experienced blockage once again but without any cheese cloth.  I conclude that
using pellet hops is incompatible with the use of the scrubber as a filter.

On the other hand, using the scrubber with whole hops does work quite well.

- --Whither Coldbreak--
I'd like to solicit opinions on cold break.  I've never really seen the
phenonmenon in over 20 batches.  Mind you I always see the dramatic formation
of hot break as the brew approaches boiling.  Upon cooling though I see no
precipitation.  When I switched to a counter-flow chiller, part of the
movitation was to improve my beers by producing the alleged cold break.
While the chiller has improved my beers, I only see the slightest clouding of
the once hot, clear wort as it exits the chiller.  Originally I was racking 
into a temporary container so that I could rack off this 'cold break' before
fermentation.  But there was no cold break, so I now counter-flow/siphon
directly into the fermenter, which is actually a lot less work.  The output
of the chiller is typically 60F.  So what gives?  Where is the cold break
I hear so much about?  Any insight here would be greatly appreciated.

By the way, for the longest time I would siphon into my fermenter in the
Brewing Room (read kitchen) and then carry it to the Fermentation Room ( read
Basement).  One day after a few home brews I finally decided to just go ahead a
drill a hole right through the floor and on into the basement.  I installed
a racking tube and have since been siphoning directly to the basement.  Well
fellow brewers, this technique has worked quite well.  It has had the added
benefits of improving the strength/speed of the siphon and of allowing me to
brew up to 15 gallons conveniently.  I would recommend this to others with the
caveat that one should be prepared to explain to non-brewers just why one
would do such a thing.  My girlfriend seems to enjoy pointing it out to
her friends as if to confirm her suspicions of what I'm not sure.  Well
I guess I've wasted too much bandwidth already, so I'll close by simply
wishing all happy holidays.

John

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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 91 16:49:39 PST
From: Bob Devine 19-Dec-1991 1730 <devine at cookie.enet.dec.com>
Subject: King Gambrinus?

Who was King Gambrinus?

There have been many beer-related pictures of a person wearing a crown.

Somehow Gambrinus has become a sort of "patron saint" of brewers.
Many breweries have taken their name from him or put up statues
claiming to be in his likeness.

I've heard/read several proported explanations about who this, possibly
mythical, person was.   The stories say King Gambrinus was one of:
	1) a real {English, Dutch} king
	2) a mythical {English, Dutch} king
	3) a corruption of a Dutch brewer's name (Jan Primus)
	4) a distant relative of Charlie Papazian ;-)

Does anyone have a better/truer story?  Who was this guy?!?

Bob "not a king" Devine

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Date: 19 Dec 91 21:26:10 EST
From: chip upsal <70731.3556 at compuserve.com>
Subject: fillers

John Decarlo writes:

>Now if there was a bottle filler with a manual switch controlled
>from the top, so I could fill the bottle as much as I wanted, it
>would have the advantages of both systems.

Try Phils Filler.  It is a simple filler made of brass and is easly
sanatized.  Best of all when you lift the filler, the beer level in the
bottle stays constant.  I got mine from the Home Brewery in Ozark MO


Chip


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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 91 16:29:19 CST
From: whg at tellab5.tellabs.com (Walter H. Gude)
Subject: Pre-crushed grain


With all the talk about grain mills and the many references to grain not
keeping well after crushing, I've been wondering how you can tell when
pre-crushed grain has been around too long?  What tastes will "stale grain"
impart to my beer.  For instance, I have a half of a pound of crystal that 
I milled at the brew store about a month ago. It's been in a closed (hopefully
sealed) zip-lock bag in my vegtable crisper since I used the first half. How
can I tell if its "bad"?   It still tatses ok. Will crushed grain get moldy?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Walter Gude


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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 91 17:52:11 CST
From: whg at tellab5.tellabs.com (Walter H. Gude)
Subject: Re: distilled water and beer


Chances are that most 5 gallon carboys come filled with "drinking" water and  
not distilled water.  The difference being the drinking water has minerals added 
back in or never completely flushed out.  When I used to get well water from the
tap I'd just pop the $3 for 6gallons of drinking water to brew with.

Walter


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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 91 17:33:15 CST
From: whg at tellab5.tellabs.com (Walter H. Gude)
Subject: Immersion Chiller...



Someone asked about the Immersion Chiller from the Home Brewery, whether it was
big enough to do the job.  I just bought it for $29.95.  The first thing I'll 
is its much bigger than it looked in the ad.  From the picture, it looked to be
about six inches in diameter.  As it came it was about 8 loops each about 10"
in diameter.  That works out to about 50 feet of tubing.  This just barely fit
in my brewpot so I play around with it to make it 10 coils of 9" diameter. I
boiled three gallons of water just to test it.  It took the water from 100C to
about 32C in five minutes at a very slow flow rate from the faucet before I got
bored and put it away.  

For the tinkers among you you may be able to get the 50' of tubing and the
connectors for less.  But if your like me and your time budget has more constraints
than your monetary one, I'd say this is a deal.

I'm in no way connected with the Home Brewery, just a satisfied customer.


Walter Gude
Tellabs, Chicago


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Date:    Fri, 20 Dec 1991 4:54:11 -0600 (CST)
From: GFT_JAMES at gsbvxb.uchicago.edu
Subject: RE: Homebrew Digest #786 (December 20, 1991)

Please remove me from this list.  Thanks.
  -James-

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Date:    Fri, 20 Dec 1991 9:47:38 -0500 (EST)
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: bitter brew

  I guess I wasn't exactly clear wrt. my undrinkable bitter brew. I said
it had a can of hopped extract and 15 AAU of hops, which by itself, would
make for too bitter a brew.  But it also had 4+ lbs. of amber dried malt, 
and a lb. of crystal.  So that's 7.3+ lbs of malt and 1 lb of crystal,
with 15 AAU plus whatever was in the extract worth of hops.  The extract was
an amber, so I doubt it had more than 10 AAU in it, more likely closer
to 5.  Still a hoppy batch, but I've made them that hoppy before, and they
were fine.  This one is lousy, if I do say so myself.  It doesn't taste like
hops, that's what's confusing my. Centennial hops, fwiw. I'm starting to 
wonder if that can of extract was bad......it seemed ok.  I'm stumped.

Russ

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Date:    Fri, 20 Dec 1991 9:55:49 -0500 (EST)
From: YATROU at INRS-TELECOM.UQUEBEC.CA (Paul Yatrou)
Subject: BORNEO

(This post is not really beer related)

Richard Childers writes (to JS):

>Don't you think it's about time you quit pretending you were
>a brain surgeon amongst natives from farthest Borneo ?

I object. There are many things natives from Borneo could teach
us about living off the land without destroying it at the same
time. My wife and I lived for a week with a native tribe on
Siberut, an island off the W. coast of Sumatra. These people
are very similar to the native tribes of Borneo (they are both
proto-Malay people). They have managed to survive on a tiny island
for thousands of years by cultivating sago (a tropical root) and
hunting tiny tree monkeys for food. They have *NOT* hunted these
animals to extinction as our ancestors have on occasion - just enough
to survive.

The sad thing is that both the Mentawais people of Siberut and the people
of Borneo are threatened by Indonesia's indescriminate logging
and transmigration policies. It won't be long before the lifestyle
of these people change forever (for the worse).

BTW, they also happen to ferment some pretty wild fluids too ;-)

My last day at work, so I won't be readin' HBD until 92. So,
Merry Xmas, Hoppy New Year, and enjoy those Christmas batches...

PY

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Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1991 10:55 EST
From: Frank Tutzauer <COMFRANK at ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu>
Subject: burst Wyeast

In HBD 786, Steve Russell bemoans his burst Wyeast package.  Moments before I
read his post, UPS delivered my latest batch of ingredients from Alternative
Beverages.  Moments after I read his post, I called Alt. Bev. because they had
left out a package of hops.  The guy on the other end of the phone noticed
that I had ordered Wyeast and told me a few things about burst outer seals. 
The beer gods must read the HBD because I didn't bring up the subject, he did. 
Anyway, he told me the following tidbits:  First, he's had a lot of complaints
about just this problem.  Second, he spoke to Wyeast, and they told him that
they are redesigning the package and rewriting the directions.  Finally, he
said that the reason they break is because when you slap the package your hand
puts too much force on too big an area.  He suggests using the bottom of a
beer bottle to break the inner seal.  The beer bottle is about the same size
as the inner packet, so force is applied at just the right points.  Also, the
concavity of the bottle helps.  Now this guy's not a physicist, but he does
work for a homebrew supplier, and his advice seems reasonable.  I'll try it on
my next batch.

- --frank


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Date: Fri, 20 Dec 91 10:23:35 CST
From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec)
Subject: chicago-area homebrewers monthly get together

Next year, we continue the tradition of getting together on the first
Thursday of the month at the Goose Island Brewery at 1800 N Clybourn
(north of North Ave., west of Halsted, easily accessible from downtown
or expressway system).  We meet in the secondary barroom, which is
midway between the main bar you enter and the restaurant in the back.
We're there from 7-ish to 11-ish.  Bring homebrew or commercial beers.
The great thing about Goose Island is that its own beers are good to
excellent, and it has no objection to us bringing in our own as well as
commercial beers.  If my calendar is correct, upcoming first Thursdays
are:

January 2
February 6
March 5
April 2
etc.

Bring your homebrew.  All experience levels welcome.  Meet the
original "free beer" guys.

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Date: Fri, 20 Dec 91 10:14:26 MST
From: abirenbo at rigel.hac.com (Aaron Birenboim)
Subject: Re: Russ Pencin's mash procedure

>Date: 18 December 1991 1:14:14 pm
>From: pencin at parcplace.com (Russ Pencin)
>Subject: Infusion, Mash-out, Sparge Efficiency

in this post Russ describes a single step mash procedure produced
after listening to lectures by Dr. Lewis at UCDavis.
He now uses a 1-step mash at 153F.

  I believe that this may be a very good procedure, but I'd like more
detail about how to deal with adjuncts/specialty grains.

Here is Russ's mash-out specialty grain procedure:
>  What I now do is mash my base grains to conversion.  At conversion
>I add the Crystal and any other specialty grains ( all finely ground) 
>to the mash and start my mash-out temperature rise ( 1 degree a minute to 170
>degrees ),  allowing the mash to mash-out at 170 for 10 minutes.  I the ladle
>the grains into my picnic cooler/ slotted pipe sparger and take ALL of the
>initial run-off after recycling about two quarts to get clarity.  Once the
>initial run-off is collected I add ~4 gallons of 170 degree water to the tun
>and stir the H--- out of it for three minutes. Let is settle for 5 mins, 
>recycle about two quarts to set the bed again and take the run-off to the
>boiler.

   Can I use this single step infusion with fermentable adjunct like
barley flakes, wheat flakes, cracked wheat or oats (cooked) ?
If so... how much adjunct might i get away with?

   How about roasted barley....  I do not even know if it is really
fermentable.

   I can see that unfermentable specialty grains like
crystal or choclate malt would be better added before mash out.

                  aaron

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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 91 17:37 PST
From: alm at brewery.intel.com (Al Marshall)

To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Subject: Phil's Philler


A follow up to Arthur Delano's review of Phil's Philler:

The sticking of the shutoff mechanism is a *big* problem.
This sticking has a lot to do with putting a little bit of horizontal
force on the lower brass tube (the one that bottoms out in the bottle).
If you could carefully suspend the filler in space without hitting
the lip of the bottle as you pulled up, the problem would be less acute.
In the heat and mess of bottling, this is not a very practical suggestion...
but it does explain why the user thinks the filler works great when
he "plays" with it, and then has trouble using it on real bottles.

A problem not mentioned by A.D.: BY THE VERY NATURE OF ITS DESIGN
THE DEVICE APPEARS TO AERATE THE *&#$ OUT OF THE FINISHED BEER. 

I cannot accuse Phil of false 
advertising, because all he claims is that the filler fills bottles
right up to the lip and shuts off by pulling it out of the bottle.
The downsides are "in between the lines".  

I tried Phil's as an alternative to the red-tipped
plastic bottling wand.  The wands are  prone to leaking due
to seating problems between the spring-loaded rod enclosed by 
the tip and the tip.  Phil gives you a different kind of leakage 
problem and aerates the beer more in the bargain.  I am back to
kegging when I can and bottling with the wand when I must.

================================================================
                                    |
R. Al Marshall                      | Insert clever aphorism here.
Intel Corporation                   | 
alm at brewery.intel.com		    |
                                    |
================================================================


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Date: Fri, 20 Dec 91 10:06:43 PST
From: Donald Oconnor <oconnor at chemistry.UCSC.EDU>
Subject: Austin, Texas homebrew supply

There will be a new brewers supply opening in Austin, Texas around January
3 or 4.
	St. Patrick's of Texas Brewers Supply
	12911 Staton Drive
	Austin, Texas 78727
	512-832-9045
The owner is Lynne O'Connor and she'd be happy to send a catalog to people in 
that area of the country upon request.  She's a very nice lady who promised
to sleep with me if I posted this.

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Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1991 13:11 EDT
From: BAUGHMANKR at CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU
Subject: Santa Fe??

Is anyone reading the Digest from Santa Fe, NM?  Please email me if you
are.  I have a question.

Kinney Baughman                     |  Beer is my business and
baughmankr at conrad.appstate.edu      |  I'm late for work.

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Date: Fri, 20 Dec 91 10:22:55 PDT
From: Mark J. Easter <easterm at ccmail.orst.edu>
Subject: Pasta machines, wet milling

Feliz Navidad, Ya'll;

          In HBD #785 (Dec 19, 1991), on the subject of "wet milling"
          malted grains in a pasta machine prior to mashing, Ken Weiss
          writes:

          >I don't think you could still use the pasta machine for
          >pasta if you did this. You'd have to clean up with water.
          >Apparently, if you get a pasta machine wet the noodle
          >dough will stick to it for years after. I dunno why, but
          >you're supposed to clean those things by just waiting for
          >the bits of dough to harden, and brushing them clean.

          This has been my experience with pasta machines.  The first
          time I used mine I did not read the directions
          thoroughly...and washed the thing off with hot water and
          detergent.  The problem I had was *rust* on some of the
          visible mechanisms (I'm afraid of what happened to the
          internal, invisible parts of the machine).  Anyway, we dried
          the machine thoroughly by setting it near the woodstove and
          then cranked it liberally.  The machine works fine, now,
          however we had real problems with pasta sticking to the
          rollers for the first several batches after that experience.
          After reading the instruction manual (who would have thought
          of this?), we found that one should *never* wash the machine
          in water, just let the leftover pasta dry out and brush it
          loose.  One is supposed to heat the machine (with rubber
          feet removed) to temperatures above 140 dF if one is
          concerned about bacterial contamination.

          I tried my machine on *dry* malted barley and wheat.  It
          worked relatively well on the barley- it seemed to provide a
          good "crush" while leaving the hulls intact, however the
          wheat kernals just tended to break into two pieces.  I
          suppose a second grind at finer setting might help crush the
          pieces.  Quite a lot of flour was evident in the grind.  I'm
          a real amateur when it comes to evaluating a quality grind,
          so I'm not a good final authority on the subject.  The
          grind was also extremely slow.  One might need to "rough up"
          the rollers (I recall somebody else mentioning this in the
          HBD) to facilitate passage of the malt through the rollers,
          a procedure that would probably render the machine useless
          for pasta.  As somebody who loves homemade pasta as much as
          homebrewed beer, this would be a heartbreaking exercise.

          Joyeux Noel- I'll be enjoying "Cherry Fever Stout" ala
          Papazian this season and I'll raise a glass to my fellow
          homebrewers.

          Mark Easter

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Date: Fri, 20 Dec 91 13:43 CST
From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
Subject: Re: bottling wands

Mike writes:
>The topic is back, and I'd thought I'd cast one opinion of dissent.
>I don't think these are a miracle tool.  I don't like using a
>spigoted bucket for bottling because of sanitation hassles incurred
>by always having to take the spigot off.  I don't even like using
>a plastic bucket for bottling because of sanitation worries.  My
>bottling wand does not form a perfect seal when it's supposed to
>be "off".  There is as much, if not more aeration with the use of
>the wand by the initial rush into the bottle than there is with my
>siphoning technique.

I used to (and soon again will for my (late) Christmas Ale) use a
bottling wand attached to the end of my siphon hose.  After very
few batches, my orange plastic gizmo also had leakage in the "off"
position, but it was a drop every few seconds and I would normally
put the wand in the next bottle while capping the current one.  The
initial rush can be reduced by raising the bottle and wand closer
(not above!) the level of the beer in the priming vessel.  As I'm
sure you're aware, the rate of the transfer is dependent on the
difference in the height of the liquid levels.  One the end of the
wand is submerged in beer, I lowered it to fill faster.
>
>I simply like to have a spare carboy around where I can combine the
>wort and priming solution and siphon from there into the bottles.

Agreed.  I used a spare carboy for a priming vessel also.
>
>That said, I'm not saying that because you use a wand your're doing
>anything wrong.  I'm just saying that not everyone thinks it's such
>a great idea, and bottling by both methods can be equally as efficient.

Agreed again.  It's not so much that I strongly disagree with you Mike,
it's just an opportunity for me to mention the "level differential vs.
flow rate" hint and to mention that I had the same leakage problem.  Maybe
a better wand is the answer.  "Phil's Philler" mentioned recently sounds
like a step in the right direction, but I think I would like it better if
they put a return spring into it (currently "off" is a result of gravity as
I understand it).  I'll probably buy one anyway.
Al.

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Date: 20 Dec 91 14:38:00 EDT
From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <graham%drcv06.decnet at drcvax.af.mil>
Subject: Percise bottling, Xmas beers.

Many thanks to Ms. Katman for her reproducing that NY times article on 
Christmas brews.  The Catamount Christmas Ale is certainly a delicious 
brew, as is the Sam Adams Winter Lager and, dare I say it, the Coors 
Winterfest.  Sure wish the Red Hook stuff was available on the East coast.


On Bottling,

Since I can't see, I have been constantly plagued with the problem of how 
to tell when the bottle is full enough.  Usually, I just fill until 
overflowing, (on the dishwasher front, in its down position), and then pour 
a little out.  Not especially precise, you will admit.  If my wife is so 
inclided, (one in ten batches), shw helps me and the bottles are all filled 
just right.  I got an idea today and called Cole-Parmer.  I spoke with a 
product specialist and found that they have just what I need.  I can 
connect a batch controller to a peristoltic pump.  It will measure to 
within a quarter milliliter or so.  I can tell it to put exactly 282.5 
mills in a bottle, touch a foot pedal, and the pump will do just that.  No 
spilling, no guessing, no hassle ... except for the price.  (Damn, did he 
have to mention THAT!)  The setup would cost $1750.  That's right, no 
decimal point after the 7, or even the 5.

But what the heck.  Hobbies are money sinks anyway.  Just another thing to 
save for.  Now, does anyone have an idea for the same basic thing that 
might cost just a little less?

I know, I could keg, but that's not possible now.  The price isn't bad, but 
the space for the extra icebox is.  I wonder if I could find a used, 
repairable commercial bottle filler?

Thanks for any thoughts.  Dan Graham


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Date: Fri, 20 Dec 91 14:03:12 EST
From: Arthur Delano <ajd at itl.itd.umich.edu>
Subject: umlauts, bottle fillers, dried malt and SS pots


Re: "Baderbrau [umlaut over the second 'a']"
German typographic convention allows one to type an "e" next to a letter that
normally has an umlaut over it: "Fuehrer" for example.  On the other hand,
American typographic convention allows one to drip all diacriticals entirely
with no apologies.  I don't know from German myself, but learned how to type
in German this summer when working with a visiting German professor.  This
is entirely FYI, of course.

Re: Richard.Stueven at Corp.Sun.COM
> I bottle right out of the spigot.
You're not the first person to point out that this can be done.  I got so
used to using Papazian at his word that I never thought beer could simply be
poured in very carefully.  (P, by the way, prescribes a pinched-hose technique
which I reported worked poorly).

Re: otten at cs.wm.edu (John Otten)
> [About using a thin-walled pot]
We've had little problem with scorched wort, but have had some, using a thin-
bottomed steel pot.  I may use a metal spacer (available in some kitchen
stores) between the electric burner and the pot next time.
  When I was shopping for a pot, I found that the stores often had no markings
on the pots, indicating that they were steel or aluminum.  Had I planned
ahead, I would've brought a magnet with me.  I settled for tapping on the
pot; if it rang well, it was probably steel; if it thudded or rang mutely,
it was probably aluminum.  "Probably" is important; has anybody else had this
problem when they were bargain-pot-shopping?

> ALSO... I noticed 1 lb bags of dried malt for $1.95. My brewing supply store
> charges $12.00 for a 3 lb bag. Is this the same sort of malt!??!!?!
Where do you live? (!?)

AjD              ajd at itl.itd.umich.edu

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Date: 20 Dec 91 16:47:07 EST
From: JPJ at B30.Prime.COM

To Bruce Buck,

Jim Koch's name is pronounced "Cook".

Jim


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Date: Fri, 20 Dec 91 11:56:56 PST
From: mcallist at netcom.com (Ron Mc Allister)


Greetings, and Happy holidays!


	I am in the process of designing an automated masher, using a PC for
process control, statistical and recipes.    This is a  very exciting project,
as it allows me to roll my electronic,programming and beer making into a REAL
worthwile system.   

	Here's my latest plan:

1.)  	55Gal Steel drum, cut along its axis, kinda like those BBQ's folks
	make for BIG picnics, but not to be cut in the center, more twoards
	one side. 
2.)     This will make foom for:
	A SS 15Gal Keg , straight sided type to be suspended in the drum
	(a keg within a drum).   
3.)	The SS keg sits on 4 wheels, and is slowly rotated by a motor 
	arrangement on top driving a rubber wheel bearing down on the Keg
4.)     The Drum is filled with enough water to cover the keg 3/4.
5.)	Water heater elements on either end of the drum, controlled by the
	computer.   

Why this plan ?

	After looking at Zymurgy and ads for the "Auto-Masher", and reading
	Miller's excellent book (The complete handbook of home brewing) to
	find out that he recommends 1.33 qt of water /# malt, I realized that
	a system like auto-mash would have a hard time stirring the mash.  I
	will be doing step mashing, making many mashes and varying very
	exactly time, temperature, ph etc.. to provide optimum control.  
	Someday, it will be incoroprated into my "mini-micro-pilot-brewer"
	wherein total automation will be employed.

The Q (finally)

	The rotating barrel idea is a bit more work, but AM I ON THE RIGHT 
	TRACK ?   Any suggestions would be helpful.  Thankyou.

Merry Xmas!
Ronan (The Barbarian)   "Barbaric Brew".
	





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Date: Fri, 20 Dec 91 14:57:17 EST
From: michael at intdata.com (Michael Benveniste)
Subject: Berghoff


I was at the Berghoff for lunch the day after Thanksgiving.  While they were
selling the Wisconsin brewed beer you mentioned, they were also selling
brewpub like products, presumably from their newly opened brewpub.  I had
the weizen, which appeared to be unfiltered.  Others at my table had an
Alt and a Winter Warmer type beer.  They were also offering a porter.

While an ale brew-pub combined with German food is a little odd, the beers
were certainly of better quality than the contract brewed (Huber?) lagers
you mention.


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Date: Fri, 20 Dec 91 13:07 CST
From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
Subject: Conveyor mill

I just spoke with my friend who works for a company that engineers
custom conveyors for industry.  It seems that, yes, they do use
off-the-shelf parts and then piece them together.  I asked if there's
any possiblity that we (brewers) could use parts from his company's
suppliers for making a grain mill.  It turns out that he has had
some experience in this area also (he worked for a company that made
coal crushing equipment).  He said that there's no way the parts they
use could build a mill for the $100-200 I suggested -- often just
the bearings they use are $100 each.  Oh, well... back to the old
drawing board.:^(
Al.

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Date: Fri, 20 Dec 91 16:04:31 CST
From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)
Subject: STUFF and undercarbonation


I finally got around to reading a weeks worth of hbd's
(the week before last's - I've still got a week's worth
to read an need the disk space)...

> my mailer only allows a one word subject

hey - it used to be that fortran identifiers
were limited to 6 characters, and that didn't
stop the the early NA hacker from giving their
library routines meaningful names (sarcasm intended).
Take, for instance dmxv(), which translates to 
double-precision, matrix times vector.  Now
if you adopt the convention that R stands for
response, G is for all-grain, T is for temperature,
and Y for yeast, then "RG>TY1007" could be construed
as "response concerning a batch of all-grain ale
fermented at a high temperature with wyeast 1007
german ale..."

> Three weeks after bottling, there is still ver little
> carbonation in the beer...

At the risk of oxidizing it somewhat, try shaking
the whole case of bottles.  It should carbonate in
another week.

bb


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Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1991 14:31 PDT
From: ALTENBACH at CHERRY.llnl.gov
Subject: SS POT ON ELECTRIC STOVE

In HBD 786 John Otten is considering brewing with a stainless steel pot on
his electric stove. I have a thin cheap SS pot and a heavy duty restuarant
grade pot (Volrath) and recommend the latter if you can afford it. The cheapo
works ok, but is easily dented and will scorch somewhat. The heavy duty pot
is a fine piece of equipment that should last as long as you still like beer
(lifetime). But BEWARE: using a shiny SS pot for extended boiling on a
conventional electric stove can easily damage the stove. The heat reflected
off the pot and back to the stove is so great as to warp the burners and rings,
especially if you use two burners simultaneously. You can also scorch the 
stove surface very easily. I had to replace the main burner on my electric
stove and my wife will never forget how I violated her domain. Fortunately
she kicked me out of the kitchen into a dedicated brewing area (formerly
laundry room). When upgrading your equipment to stainless steel, leave the
stove behind and also get yourself a blast furnace (or at least a propane
burner).
           TOM ALTENBACH

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Date: Sat, 21 Dec 91 11:24:41 PST
From: mcallist at netcom.com (Ron Mc Allister)


Greetings.   Has anyone ever devised a hydrometer that floats in the secondary
vessel continuously - mabye with a DC voltage proportional to the SG?  Any 
Ideas would be appreciated.  Also, can one accurately measure the weight of
a wort with a triple-beam scale to determine SG?  

	I left a posting yesterday giving sketchy details of an automated
mash project I am working on.   This hydrometer will eventually be interfaced
to the sparger to obtain "real-time" readings of degrees of extract, etc.

	Also, anyone have any experiences with a PH sensor that is rugged, 
low-cost, accurate?   only a transducer is nessecary.... I will also integrate
this into the control loop.


Cheerio, Ronan (The Barbarian)
Barbaric Brews
"Electronic-Compu Nut and automation tinkerer"



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Date: Sat, 21 Dec 91 14:53:50 CST
From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)
Subject: amylase


For the last few mashes I've been adding a tablespoon or two
of amylase enzyme to my mashes, half at the start, and the
rest halfway through.  Will this make a difference, or is
it just a drop in the bucket compared to the amount of amylase
already in the barley malt?  How much of it is alpha-amylase,
and how much is beta-amylase, and is this proportion different
from that in the barley malt?

Dad told me that he is now raising specialy corn (for which he
gets a premium) from which they make this stuff.  How many
bushels were sacrificed for this little 1 oz. bottle?  is
$1.95 way too expensive for it?

Someone recommended adding a little to the wort after picthing
to get a drier beer.  well, I found out that this works.
In fact, it works too well for my taste.  My guinea-pig
batch of extract stout is way to dry, overcarbonated for the
amount of primiing sugar used (I guess becase some extra sugars
were formed after bottling), and gives me a slight stomach ache
when I drink it.

bb


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Date: Sat, 21 Dec 91 19:46:39 PST
From: Martin A. Lodahl <malodah%pbmoss%PacBell.COM at hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: How Did You Know, Stephen?


In HOMEBREW Digest #786, Stephen (Darryl?) Russell was caught wort-handed:

>I just popped a package of WYeast (#2308 -- Munich Lager -- dated 4/91) and
>at the same time that the inner seal popped, the *outer* seal ruptured as well,
>shooting out some of the precious yeastily fluids ...
>        Anyone ever have this happen to them before (I would suspect the ever-
>luckless Martin Lodahl :-) ??  

OUCH!  Direct hit ... 8-0   Yeast everywhere ...

	Yes, as a matter of fact, I did have this happen,
about a year and a half or so ago.  Quite a few people had the same
experience at the same time, and after noting a couple of postings to
that effect, Pete Soper (from whom we haven't heard in too long;  Pete,
you're greatly missed!) began collecting stats and contacted WYeast.
They responded very quickly, immediately dumping the packaging that was
the source of the trouble.  My retailer unhesitatingly replaced my burst
packet, and while I was there making the exchange, another patron told
how he'd started a packet and left for work, finding yeast sprayed all
over his kitchen when he returned.

When my packet burst, I didn't handle it with as much aplomb as Steve
did.  Fearing contamination, I just dumped the stuff and resorted to
the packet of dry yeast I keep on hand for such exigencies.  Then it
was Edme, now it's Whitbread.  And the beer turned out fine, but not
as tasty as it would have been, I'd like to think ...
- -- 
= Martin A. Lodahl   			Pacific*Bell Systems Analyst =
= malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM       Sacramento, CA       916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =


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Date: Sun, 22 Dec 91 11:01:51 PST
From: mcallist at netcom.com (Ron Mc Allister)


A possible water saving idea:

An effective wort chiller may be constructed for those who are 
concerned about water conservation.  For those "do-it-yer selfers".
This is a forced air system and might be overkill, but we are on our
6th yr. of drought here (sheesh) and trying to minimize waste.
I used what I had available.  Improvise, Improvise, Improve !

1. Coil 15' of copper tubing around a section of 6" stovepipe used as 
   a form, then slip a piece of 8" stovepipe around the whole arrangement
   and wrap another 20 or so feet of tubing back up the other direction
   twoards the start of the tube.

2. Remove the stovepipe forms.

3. Obtain a length of 10" galvanized stovepipe 1' longer than the coils 
   and slide the coils inside. 

4. Secure the coils to the inside of the 8" stovepipe with straps and 
   rivets or screws. (Plumbers tape works fine).

5. Mount a circular piece of 1/2" plywood to the end opposite tubing 
   connections to act as a mounting plate for the blower.  Use 4 little
   "L" brackets.	

6. Find a powerfull fan or impeller type blower and mount on plywood.
   An ideal type is one of those 110VAC leaf blowers, or something with
   that kind of force.  (Use ear plugs when using).

7. Add connections to complete.   Store filled with sanitizing solution.

8. Use only food-safe solder for connections if solder used.   	


Ronan McAllister (The Barbarian)
131 Norvin Wy
Grass Valley, Ca. 95949
Barbaric Brews

- --- "Hey! ... Where did the leaf blower go ? " -- (Ronans wife, Trish)


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Date:         Sun, 22 Dec 91 01:20:20 EST
From: Robb Holmes <RHOLMES at uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Winning Blue Ribbons  ( bad beer of old)

Back in the mid-70's, I drank a lot of --uh-- beer, I suppose, since
it tasted too bad to be water.  It cost about seven cents a bottle,
using one can (2.2 lb.) of Blue Ribbon malt syrup and, if memory serves,
about four pounds of sugar, stretching the wort to about seven gallons.
Of course, it was awful, but I drank it anyway.

I got back into brewing last March, and I'm still not a great brewer,
but I've been amazed to discover that, using good ingredients and
reasonable attention to sanitation, it's possible to brew a very tasty
ale or stout.

I recently found one grocery store that still carries Premier Malt
Syrup, which appears to be the same as the old Blue Ribbon.
I immediately whipped a batch for old times' sake: three cans of Premier
hopped light and no sugar (except one cup Dextrose for priming).
I noticed this batch fermented faster than any other I've seen, and this
in November, with reasonably cool weathr.

This batch does not taste infected, and it's not overly cidery, so
it's a big improvement over the crimes I used to commit with Blue Ribbon.
Still, there's a certain flavor about the beer that I don't like
(although my wife prefers it to the very hoppy ales I usually brew).
Sorry, I don't know how to describe the flavor, other than to say it
was what was left when you took away the cideriness and infection that
were typical of beer made with Blue Ribbon way back them.

Has anyone ever undertaken a study of Blue Ribbon/Premier?  I'm curious
how others describe the flavor of beer made with this malt syrup, and if
anyone knows why it produces the same, consistent off flavors.

Any replies/opinions on this subject will be appreciaed.


- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Robb Holmes                       |      WUGA, the Classic 91.7 FM
bitnet: rholmes at uga               |  Georgia Center for Continuing Ed.
internet: rholmes at uga.cc.uga.edu  |      The University of Georgia
- --------------------------Is this thing on?----------------------------

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Date: 	Sun, 22 Dec 1991 19:53:36 -0500
From: "N. Zentena" <zen at utcs.utoronto.ca>
Subject: Lager temps?

	Hi,
	With the cold temps we have been having I'd like to make a lager.
I'll be able to maintain about 50F for fermention that should be fine right?
But I'll only be able to drop it down to about 40F for lagering is this a 
problem?

	Thanks
		Nick

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #787, 12/23/91
*************************************
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