FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Homebrew Digest #804 (January 17, 1992) (Michael Mahler)
  Yeast is Yeast (MIKE LIGAS)
  Whither Rotokeg (Greg Neill)
  fluff (Carl West)
  Botulism (Greg Beary)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #804 (January 17, 1992) (Jeff Roberts)
  Re: esters (korz)
  Priming w/malt extract (korz)
  B-Brite longevity (Curt Freeman)
  Carboy-in-a-crate (JW Smith)
  Milk Crates & Carboy Draining (C.R. Saikley)
  Bottling vs. Kegging question (The Rider)
  Foghorn (George Fix)
  Random thoughts on carboy handles, grain mill rollers (Dan Feldman)
  CO2 volumes/temp/pressure chart for kegging. (key)
  Georgia needs support for Homebrew Bill (Ken Dobson MD)
  Ale Atlanta beer ratings (Robb Holmes)
  sterile aerator, fixong keg (Bill Crick)
  Plate Streaking (Mike Lelivelt)
  Multi-strain yeasts (Mike Lelivelt)
  Non-Alcoholic Homebrew (Jack Schmidling)
  Dioxins ("George R. Flentke")
  That Looney-Tune Noonan (Frank Tutzauer)
  Now that's a hot break (also agar,canning wort) (Frank Tutzauer)
  Historical Homebrew  ( part 3) (Robb Holmes)
  Using coriander (dbreiden)


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[Please do not send me requests for back issues!]
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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Jan 92 10:42:26 EST
From: mm at lectroid.sw.stratus.com (Michael Mahler)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #804 (January 17, 1992)


	About chlorinated water:

	Carbon filters are extremely effective at removing this.  I find
	NO smell of cholorine at all from my tap.

	Alos, those of you using HOT tap water for brew and sparge might
	like to consider that in older water heaters there is considerable
	mineral buildup in the water heater which might be in your beer.
	However, this might be a "good" thing.


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Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1992 10:43 EDT
From: MIKE LIGAS <LIGAS at SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA>
Subject: Yeast is Yeast

    There was a farmer who had a horse that had a very long
    mane. Every morning the farmer would go out and plow his
    fields and everything was fine until one day a flock of
    birds flew over and built a nest in the horse's mane.
    This was bad enough, however, the birds would tweet and
    tweet all morning so that the farmer could not get his
    plowing done! One day while the farmer was in town he
    ran into Gus, the local know-it-all. "Gus", the farmer
    said, "this flock of birds have built their nest in my
    horse's mane and all morning they tweet and tweet and I
    can't get my plowing done! What should I do?". "I've got
    the perfect solution", said Gus, "go home and put some
    yeast into the horse's mane and all your troubles will
    be over!". "Yeast!", the farmer exclaimed, "what good will
    that do?". "Just try it", said Gus! So the farmer went home
    and put some yeast into the horse's mane. Next morning
    the nest was gone, the birds were gone, and no more incessant
    tweeting! The farmer was overjoyed! The next time he was
    in town and ran into Gus, he asked Gus how did he know
    that putting yeast in my horse's mane would get rid of
    the birds, the nest, and the tweeting? Gus replied:
    "Yeast is yeast, and nest is nest, and never the mane
    shall tweet!".

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Date: Fri, 17 Jan 92 16:25:22 GMT
From: Greg Neill <ynecgan at cid.aes.doe.CA>
Subject: Whither Rotokeg
Full-Name: Greg Neill

Does anyone have an address and fax number for Rotokeg in England?  I
tried the number I got with my keg documents several years ago, but it
would appear that they have since moved or closed up shop.

Thanks.

- -- 
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Greg Neill,                      |  "A fanatic is one who cannot change
  HNSX Supercomputers   Inc.       |   his mind, nor the subject" 
  ynecgan at cid.aes.doe.ca           |     -- Sir Winston Churchill
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Date: Fri, 17 Jan 92 11:24:38 EST
From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West)
Subject: fluff


Al Korz says:

> If your carboy says Hinkley & Schmitt, you can bet it's not quartz...

I like to work a bit larger than that, all my carboys are gallonz 

Carl


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Date: Fri, 17 Jan 92 09:57:54 MST
From: Greg Beary <gbeary at advtech.uswest.com>
Subject: Botulism


While laying awake last night, I started to worry. I have a batch
of Montmellick (sp?) Stout in my secondary. My worry concerns the
state of one of the cans I used to make it. 

I purchased one can roughly +year ago. A second can came my way 
via England, where my brother bought it for me in a British Home
Brew shop. I had asked that he bring back a few bottle conditioned
beers, so that I could "steal" their yeast. He unfortunately got
the message confused. The woman in the store sold him "this great
product that produced stout just like Guiness". He was rather disappointed
when I told him it was the same brand I normally use (though in 
a different outer packaging). 

Anyway, I decided rather than use one can of extract and one can 
or bag of  malt extract, I'd use two cans of extract (one US, one
Brit). The problem was that when I went to open the US one (about
14 months sitting on my shelf) it was a bit swollen. The ends
of the can bulged out. When I opened it, it gave off a bit of 
pressure, but smelled normal. I figured at the time, what the 
heck I'll be boiling it real well, it can't do any harm. So,
I prepared as normal, racked onto the trub left from a Brown
Ale (done with "stolen" Sierra Nevada yeast) and left it to 
ferment. I had chilled it very well, down to about 45F, and 
I wasn't suprised that it took a day to come to temp and get
fermenting. Anyway, three weeks later everything looks to 
have gone normally.

My real question is if anyone else has had problems with 
Extract cans swelling? Also, while laying awake, I thought
that I remembered reading somewhere that Botulism is a toxin. 
That is, if you have a can with the big "B", you can boil the
contents and kill the critters that manufacture "B", but that
doesn't remove what they have already produced. 

Why this didn't occur to me when I was brewing, I have no idea.
Perhaps I was working too hard at not worrying. 

Anyone have any insight on this issue?

Thanks,
Greg

 


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Date: Fri, 17 Jan 92 09:28:56 PST
From: Jeff.Roberts at Eng.Sun.COM (Jeff Roberts)
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #804 (January 17, 1992)

Please remove me from this alias.

Jeff

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Date: Fri, 17 Jan 92 11:44 CST
From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
Subject: Re: esters

Stever asks:
>        Sipping a bottle of my brew the other day, I noticed a hint of banana.
>I wonder if somehow esters were formed.  Being something of a novice, I don't
>doubt that my lousy technique is at fault.  Does anyone know which parameter(s)
>the beer considered when deciding to ester or not to ester?

Esters are produced by your yeast.  There are primarily three factors that
affect ester production: the strain of yeast, the fermentation temperature,
and the pitching rate.  Some yeasts are more likely than others to produce
esters (try a bottle of St. Louis Gueze -- WOW! -- unfortunately it is
filtered -- RATS!).  Red Star Yeast is widely known to produce banana
esters.  Higher fermentation temperatures increase the production of esters
and higher pitching rates increase ester production.  In the Troubleshooting
Issue of Zymurgy, David Logsdon also mentions that high-gravity beers generally
have more esters, but I have not found this correlation in my beers.

One other related piece of info, the Troubleshooting Guide notes that
in time, esters tend to be converted to higher (fusel) alcohols and give
the beer a solvent-like flavor.  I have not noticed this in my beers.

Al.

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Date: Fri, 17 Jan 92 11:51 CST
From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
Subject: Priming w/malt extract

Jack responds to Caitrin:
>>How does one prime with malt?
>
>Boil about a cup in a little water and use just like sugar.
>
>According to a recent posting though, sugar won the taste test between malt 
>and sugar.

Not exactly.  Dextrose (corn sugar) is 100% fermentable but malt extract is
only 75-80% fermentable (by weight).  Therefore, if you are happy with
your carbonation when using 3/4 cup dextrose, which weighs 4.5 oz, just
weigh out 5.4 to 5.7 oz of dry malt extract, boil that and prime.  Since
each brand of malt extract has a different fermentable/unfermentable
profile, you will have to experiment a little and adjust accordingly.
Al.

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Date: Fri, 17 Jan 92 13:17:06 EST
From: Curt Freeman <curtf at hpwart.wal.hp.com>
Subject: B-Brite longevity
Full-Name: Curt Freeman

On occasion, I have kept a quantity of B-Brite solution around and used it
at a later date. Recently I was told that B-Brite solutions are not like
Metabisulfite solutions; they should be used immediately and then
discarded. However, the person who told me this was the same person who
sells me it. Is B-Brite a free oxygen scavenger or something that loses
effectiveness over time. I can verify that old B-Brite solutions remain
effective cleaners, etc, but maybe they don't remain effective sterilants.

On another issue: the swirling technique of aiding separation of trub from
wort should result in something like:


       |                |
       |*              *|
       |**     A      **|
       |***          ***|
       |****        ****|
       |*****      *****|
       |* B ***  *** B *|
       |****************|
       ------------------
            Brew pot

So where is the high concentration of trub supposed to be, in A or B?
"Trolling" around the pot with my siphon wand didn't provide an obvious
answer. Guess I have to work on my swirling.
- --
 Curt Freeman         | INTERNET curtf at hpwala.wal.hp.com
 Hewlett-Packard      | FON: (617) 290-3406  FAX: (617) 890-5451



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Date: Fri, 17 Jan 92 12:57 CST
From: jws3 at engr.uark.edu (JW Smith)
Subject: Carboy-in-a-crate


tomm at pet.med.ge.com writes:

> I have a
plastic milk crate and it does work well.  The carboy is a little smaller
than the crate, so there is room to slid my fingers into the handles.[...]
To be fair, carboy handles may be better when holding a full wet carboy
sideways to dump out the sanitizing water.  I can rest the carboy on the
side of the laundry tub (still in the handy crate) when I empty it, so
supporting it is no problem.
>

One idea that springs to mind here is to weave some rope around the carboy
neck and down through the holes in the milk crate.  Say, 3/16" sisal would
keep even a full carboy steady in the crate when emptying.  I would also
use cutouts from an old tire to brace the carboy in the crate, so that it
doesn't slide around.  I will make one of these setups the next time I find
a milk crate, as my carboy scares me every time I pick it up full.  Thanks
for the good idea, folks!


|  James W. Smith, University of Arkansas  |        jws3 at engr.uark.edu       |
|    I'm so depressed.  If I didn't have so much to do, I'd be a nihilist.   |
|  Neither NASA nor the U of Ark. is responsible for what I say. Mea culpa.  | 

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Date: Fri, 17 Jan 92 11:34:40 PST
From: grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: Milk Crates & Carboy Draining


From: tomm at pet.med.ge.com (Thomas Manteufel 5-4257)

>Someone, I don't remember who, and it was a long time ago, posted the
>suggestion to use a plastic milk crate to hold the carboy.  I have a

With two milk crates per carboy, you can set up a little stand that 
makes draining carboys a breeze and frees you up to do other things 
while they're draining. It works like this :

Cut a diamond shaped hole in the bottom of one crate. Make the hole 
sufficiently large so that enough of the carboy's neck fits in to 
make it stable, but small enough that the entire carboy doesn't slip
through. It should like something like this, but square instead of
rectangular.

			________
			|  /\  |	
			| /  \ |
			|/    \|
			|\    /|
			| \  / |
			|  \/  |
			--------

Stack the cut crate on top of the uncut crate, bottoms down. You can
then invert the carboy and place it inside the upper crate, where it
will happily glug away until empty. The conservation conscious can place
the stack inside a drum, and collect the water for later use.

CR

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Date:    Fri, 17 Jan 92 19:52:53 GMT
From: fetzerm at Sdsc.Edu (The Rider)
Subject: Bottling vs. Kegging question

From: "The Rider" <mfetzer at ucsd.edu> 
Date sent:  17-JAN-1992 19:44:57 CUT 

As many of you know, it takes a while for beer to carbonate in bottles.  
After about a week or so, there's enough CO2 to make it drinkable, but the 
taste is just not quite right yet.  I have personally found that our beers 
are at their peek 6 weeks or more after bottling, and some that were 
unaccptable after 2 weeks were great after 6.  These are mostly india pale 
ales I'm talking about, usually partial mashes.

Enter a friend with a story of Hales brewery, in Kirkland WA.  They brew in 
large vats, that are completely open to the air.  They rely soley on CO2 to 
keep nasties out of their beer.  To do that, you have to of course pitch a 
large amount of yeast.  So, after a batch has fermented 3 or 4 days (I 
forget which, seems like it was 3!)  they skim the floating yeast off the 
top, pitch it into a new batch of beer and off it goes.  Now, they 
immediately cold filter the first batch, and keg it!  It goes out to 
breweries on a truck the same day, and is drunk within a week.  Excellent 
beer.

So my friend decides to try the kegging at home, and he claims it works.  
He does a two stage ferment, still, but then he keggs and can drink it 
immediatly.  No weird taste that takes 6 weeks to go away.  What gives?  

Is it the conditioning in the bottle?  The yeast thats suspended in the 
process?  Why does everyone say beer needs to age several weeks?

Take care,

Mike
 ................................................................................
Michael Fetzer
Internet:     MFETZER at UCSD.EDU      UUCP:	...!ucsd!mfetzer
BITnet:       MFETZER at UCSD          (use FETZERM at SDSC for BITnet SEND)
HEPnet/SPAN:  SDSC::FETZERM         or  27.1::FETZERM

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Date: Fri, 17 Jan 92 13:41:49 CST
From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)

Subject: Foghorn (George Fix)

Chris Sheldon mentions tasting a tart Foghorn on draft, and asks about
the origin of this flavor. This is not a normal characteristic of this
beer, and is likely due to an infection (possibly lactos). Given Anchor's
standards and rigorous microbiological tests, it is likely that the
infection was picked up in the beer lines of the establishment where
the beer was served. This does not happen that often, but it unfortunately
does sometimes.

This type of flavor defect is totally different from the ones I described
in an earlier post. The latter where found in bottled beer, purchased and
consumed thousands of miles from the brewery. I believe (perhaps incorrectly)
that they are due to indirect oxidation originating in the brewhouse procedures
used by Anchor.



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Date: Fri, 17 Jan 92 12:28 PST
From: Dan Feldman <Feldman at GODZILLA.SCH.Symbolics.COM>
Subject: Random thoughts on carboy handles, grain mill rollers

    Date: Thu, 16 Jan 92 08:01:08 CST
    From: tomm at pet.med.ge.com (Thomas Manteufel 5-4257)

    All this talk of knurling and scoring grain mill rollers to grab the grain
    has me wondering:  Why not coat the rollers with some sort of rubber, like
    a stick-on sheet, or hot dipping, to grip the grain.  If the rubber is
    thin enough, or hard enough, the grain should get crushed just fine.  Has
    anyone ever done this?  Or is a silly idea for some reason I haven't
    thought of?

It is much more cost effective to knurl or score the rollers.
Rubber compounds hard enough to do the job are expensive,
difficult to apply, and expensive to apply.  I would hate to
try to apply sheet stock to any roller; cutting the length
would be very difficult at its easiest.

Dan

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Date: Fri, 17 Jan 92 15:36:01 EST
From: key at cs.utk.edu
Subject: CO2 volumes/temp/pressure chart for kegging.

Folks were curious about the chart I got for finding the
pressure to use to artifically carbonate beer.  I entered it
in and it can be anon. FTP'ed from cs.utk.edu in the
/pub/key/ directory as co2-chart.  The chart is approx.
154 char wide by 44 lines long of text.  It was printed from the
program co2-volume.c that's also in the directory.  It has
the original data so you can modify it's printing to get a 
different layout.  Please let me know if you catch typos,
the relationships are fairly linear.

Ken Key  (key at cs.utk.edu)
Univ. of Tennessee, Knoxville - CS Dept.


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Date:         Fri, 17 Jan 1992 19:05 EST
From: Ken Dobson MD <MEDKGD%EMUVM1.bitnet at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:      Georgia needs support for Homebrew Bill

Georgia needs the help of homebrewers everywhere!!!  Georgia is one of
the three states in which homebrewing is still illegal.  However, due to
the efforts of the Atlanta homebrewing club, the Covert Hops Society, a
legalization bill has passed the House and is now about to be considered
by the Senate Consumer Affairs Committee.  We ask that homebrewers
***everywhere*** write the committee Chairman and recommend that his com-
mittee support passage of ***HB-62***.  His address is:
      Senator Arthur Langford, Jr.
      Chairman, Senate Consumer Affairs Committee
      320 LOB
      Atlanta, GA 30334
      (404) 656-0049.
Thank you for your support.
                          Ken Dobson, M.D
                          Propagandist
                          Covert Hops Society

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Date:         Fri, 17 Jan 92 19:21:32 EST
From: Robb Holmes <RHOLMES at uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Ale Atlanta beer ratings

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, in its Thursday, January 16, 1992
edition, published an article (in the food section) on beer ratings
by a local club called Ale Atlanta.  The article says the club has
about 30 members, with about 20 attending most tasting sessions.
According to the article, 101 beers were considered, divided into
12 categories.  In each category a winner and runner-up was selected,
or two runners-up if the 2nd and 3rd place finishers were separated
by only one point.

Here are their ratings.  I won't reproduce the comments that accompanied
all the first-place winners, but will provide them on request.

Amber: Wild Boar, John Courage Amber
Ale: Pete's Wicked Ale, Whitbread
Import Pilsner: Tsingtao, Pacifico Clara
Import Dark: Spaten Dark, Augusteiner Maximator, San Miguel Dark
Wheat: Paulaner, Hacker-Pschorr
Dry: Pete's Pacific, Iron City
Light (low calorie): Watney's London, Iron Ciry
Specialty: Samuel Adams Cranberry Lambic, Lindeman's Framboise,
                       Lindeman's Kriek
Non-alcoholic: Coors Cutter, Kalibur
Special Ale: Young's Special London, Young's Ram Rod
Stout & Porter: Mackeson, Sam Smith's Imperial
Domestic Pilsner: Samuel Adams Boston Lager, Cold Spring Export

More than an entire page of newsprint was devoted to beer-related items
(getting ready for the superbowl), but there was only one mention of
homebrewing.  One of the homebrewers, it was said, "knew what to look
for -- or smell for.  /He/ is a home brewer who experiments with
his own recipes."

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Robb Holmes                       |      WUGA, the Classic 91.7 FM
bitnet: rholmes at uga               |  Georgia Center for Continuing Ed.
internet: rholmes at uga.cc.uga.edu  |      The University of Georgia
- --------------------------Is this thing on?----------------------------

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Date: 	Fri, 17 Jan 1992 10:58:59 -0500
From: hpfcmr.fc.hp.com!hplabs!uunet!bnr-vpa!bnr-rsc!crick (Bill Crick)
Subject: sterile aerator, fixong keg

Regarding the aquarium pump to aereate wort. A local company
sells a "beer machine", whoss main claim to fame is that they
aereate the wort, which causes endless wonderful things to happen blah blah 
blah......... Their aerator is an aquarium pump. They use a little 
1" diameter filter holder (which is also very extra special...........
Looks like typical lab supply stuff), which holds an extra special blah blah
blah ......... filter disk which I suspect is a standard 1um, or 1/2um
filter paper. This filters out the nasty biological stuff from the air.
You should be able to get a filter holder, and filter papers from any
good lab supply, or medical lab supply house. Check your yellow pages, 
or call your local hospital lab, and ask them where yo might be able to get 
some.

Rergarding patching your plastic keg? Depends what it is made from.
If polyethylene, which is likely, it can be thermally welded (melted).
If it is ABS, or polyvinyl cloride (unlikely for a pressure vessel as they are
too brittle) then solvent based repairs are possible.

How to get it fixed? One possibilty is locate someone who fixes sailboards, 
which are commonly made from these materials. Contact local sailboard shops,
they may be able to point you to help. Chance of success is pretty good.
Note: Don't mention that it is a pressure vessel!!! IF you do, then the guy 
    will likely refuse to fix it if he has half a brain due to possible 
   liability (ain't 'Merica Wunnerful?)problems.
Also note that Windsurfer brand boards are polyethene which is what I believe
both my plastic kegs are/were made from.


Bill Crick Brewius, Ergo Sailing!



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Date:         Sat, 18 Jan 92 09:58:20 EST
From: Mike Lelivelt <UTB at CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:      Plate Streaking

How to steak a yeast sample to isolate single colonies
This needs to be done on a petri plate, thus the reason why most
homebrewers don't bother with it.  Should you have access to them, make
the usual malt extract culture media and add 1.5 or 2.0 grams of agar
per 100 ml of culture media.  Of course, autoclave the media and plates.
Pour the plates.  Allow to cool and solidify. Now, in your mind divide
the plate into thirds like a pie.  Get your inoculating loop and flame
it.  Allow it to cool and dip into your favorite yeast sample.  Run the
inoculated loop in a zig zag manner over one third of the plate.  Flame
the loop again. _DO_NOT_ reinoculate it, that means don't put it back
into your yeast sample.  Instead streak the second third of the plate by
running the cooled loop through one or two streaks made in the first
third.  Flame the loop and do the same to the final third by picking up
cells from the second third.  Your goal is to streak out fewer and fewer
cells each time.  Now when these cells begin to grow, the streak in the
final third will only have cells growing every so often rather than a
smear of cells as in the first and second thirds.  Now you have a colony
of cells produced from a single cell all with exactly similar genetic
properties.  A good source to consult on the above procedure is any
laboratory manual to microbiology, which you can find in any academic
library, or write me.

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Date:         Sat, 18 Jan 92 10:08:21 EST
From: Mike Lelivelt <UTB at CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:      Multi-strain yeasts


According to Fix's article on Wild Yeast in Zymurgy's Yeast Issue,
Whitbread culture (
1098) consists on three strains of yeast.  In the same issue Burch in
"Yeast and Beer Styles" says
3056 is composed of two strains.  Does anyone know of other Wyeast
cultures being multi-strain in nature?  I ask because these strains are
incompatable with the isolation techniques presented above.  A friend
(Hi Veg) isolated both species of the 3056 culture due to differences in
colony morphology.  This techniques cannot be applied to 1098 culture as
all three are Saccaromyces cerevisiae derivatives and possess similar
colony morphology.  Please don't tell me to run protein gels, I'm
already anal enough.  My current solution is just not to attempt to
isolate.  Come on big brains, any answers?

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Date: Sat, 18 Jan 92 08:06 CST
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Non-Alcoholic Homebrew

 
 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling
          
                        NA HOMEBREW
 
 Everytime I mention NA beer, people give me funny looks and ask questions 
 like, "why would anyone want to do that to homebrew?"
 
 Having been a victim of my hobby some years ago, I drank nothing but 
 Kingsbury for almost 10 years.  The thought of going back to that is all the 
 motivation I need.  I have been limiting myself to one 16 oz glass of beer, 
 per day for a couple of years and I no longer consider myself a recovering 
 alcoholic.
 
 However, making beer is so much fun and hombrew tastes so good that rather 
 then cheat, I have been experimenting with making NA homebrew.
 
 Y'all will no doubt remember when I started asking questions about measuring 
 alcohol in beer.  That was about the time I started.  I have made six batches 
 and think the process works well enough to publish.  
 
 So far, I have only produced one gallon batches but I have 7 gals clearing 
 now, that will be my first full scale batch, five gallons of which will be 
 kegged for NA on draft.  Here is the process......
 
                          ................
 
 When you have your next batch ready to bottle, syphon off one gallon before 
 priming.  Put this in a kettle with (2) tablespoons of sugar and bring the 
 temp up to 170 F with the lid off.  Let it cool, uncovered until the temp 
 gets below 150 F.  Then cover it and cool it to room temp as quickly as 
 possible.  I put it in a sink with running water.
 
 When room temp, add 1/8 tsp Champaign yeast.  I have been using Red Star.  
 Let it sit for a while to disolve and disperse, then stir well with a 
 sanitized spoon.
 
 Pour the brew into your favorite bottles and cap.  I always include at least 
 one plastic bottle to monitor cabonation.  When the plastic bottle is hard, 
 refrigerate them all.  This usually takes no more than a few days at room 
 temp.  I have no idea how long this stuff will keep in or out of the fridge 
 but time will tell.
 
 What does it taste like?  You'll have to try it yourself to find out.
 
 Just for drill, I took an early version down to a Chicago Beer Club meeting 
 and had it judged blind.  I then gave them a bottle of the beer it was made 
 from as a comparison.
 
 What did the judges have to say:
 
 In general, "lousy beer" but they could not tell the difference between the 
 original and the NA nor had they the slightest clue, that one had no alcohol.
 
 Unfortunately, that batch was the one I have previously described as clovey 
 (they said bananas) and you can't make bad beer, good by taking out the 
 alcohol.
 
 I was toying with the idea of sending NA as my entry in the Usenet Brewoff 
 Challenge just for fun but decided that it was too much trouble for a 
 practical joke.
 
 js
 
 P.S.  Had two bottles with pizza last night and noted the clovey taste again. 
 They were from two different batches.  As the original beer does not exhibit 
 this bonus, I attribute it to the Red Star champaign yeast.  I think it is 
 now safe to roundly condemn ALL Red Star yeast.  On the next batch I will 
 re-inocculate with EDME which is what I am using in the original 
 fermentation.
 
 jss
 
 
 

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Date: Sat, 18 Jan 92 16:42 CST
From: "George R. Flentke" <GRFLENTK at macc.wisc.edu>
Subject: Dioxins

In homebrew, you potentially have the ingredients for dioxin when mixed with
chlorinated water.  Any lignins present can serve as the source for the phenolic
portion.  These can react the the halomethanes to give dioxin compounds.
Whether there is enough heat to do the job, I'm not to sure about.
 
George R. Flentke
Dept. of Pharmacy; UW-Madison
Internet: grflentk at macc.wisc.edu
Bitnet: grflentk at wiscmacc
 

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Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1992 22:41 EST
From: Frank Tutzauer <COMFRANK at ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu>
Subject: That Looney-Tune Noonan

Well, I've finally finished reading Noonan.  Wow.  Lots more biochem than I
expected.  Also, his writing style is terse and what I can only describe as
"dogmatic"--but still, there's lots of good stuff in the book.  I do have one
question, however.  At several points, he says that beer samples should be
"black."  For example, on p. 200, he talks about post-kraeusen beer, and says,
"Remove a sample glassful, agitate it, and examine it.  The beer at this point
should be clear, bright, and black."  What does he mean, black beer?  Maybe if
your brewing a stout or something, but I think he means it in a different
sense here.  Anybody know what he's talking about?  I'm sure clue-free.

- --frank


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Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1992 22:42 EST
From: Frank Tutzauer <COMFRANK at ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu>
Subject: Now that's a hot break (also agar,canning wort)

I've finally gotten around to canning some wort, basically following the
procedure outlined by Rog Leistad in Yeast Culturing for the Homebrewer (G.W.
Kent, 1983).  When I brought the jars out of the pressure cooker, there was
the most tremendous hot break I had ever seen--like an inch of crud at the
bottom of the jars.  I'm assuming that this is normal and that I should decant
off of the break before using.  If not, let me know.

Also, about this agar stuff.  In most Chinese grocery stores, they sell a
product called agar, or sometimes agar-agar.  It's some kind of seaweed
something or other that comes dried in long, thin, white, almost colorless
strips.  When you rehydrate it, it turns gelatinous and is used in salads,
aspics, jellies, and stuff like that.  It tastes pretty flavorless.  I also
understand that you can get agar powder that works similarly, but I've never
used it, so I can't describe it like the other stuff, which I have used.  Well
anyway:  Is this the same thing as the agar in all the yeast culturing
literature?  Can I use it, or do I need some fancy schmancy biochemical-rated
USP UL super-special agar?  The Chinese agar is food quality (you eat it
afterall), and Leistad processes at 15 psi for 15 minutes anyway.  And I'm
sure it's a darn sight cheaper than getting it from a lab supply house.   
So, whaddya think?

- --frank


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Date:         Sun, 19 Jan 92 10:34:23 EST
From: Robb Holmes <RHOLMES at uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Historical Homebrew  ( part 3)


This is the third and final installment of traditional "Prohibition
Pilsner" recipes received anonymously, presumably from the makers of Blue
Ribbon malt syrup, in the mid-1970's.  Previous installments of Historical
Homebrew appeared in Homebrew Digest # 795 and # 800.  This is posted here
purely for historical interest, and not as a recommended recipe, although
the techniques called for here seem to be much closer to currently
recommended procedures for beginning brewers, than in the earlier
historical postings.  The format of the original is retained as much as
possible.
If anyone is interested in having the original copy of these recipes for a
collection of beer memorabilia, please contact me by E-mail.
- ------------------

FOR 5 GALLONS -- One can hop flavored malt syrup -- 3/4 pound
granulated sugar -- one cake compressed* yeast.  Dissolve syrup
and sugar in boiling hot water -- pour into cold water to make
five gallons -- allow to further cool for two hours, then add
one cake yeast.  Cover crock or other fermenting vessel with
clean cloth.  Keep in a cool, dark place.  Watch carefully and
when bubbles of gas cease coming to surface fermentation has
been completed and liquor should be quite clear (approximately
four days).

Now siphon off clear liquid to another clean crock, leaving the
thick sediment behind.  To the liquor in the second crock add
1/4 pound granulated sugar and stir until dissolved.  Fill into
bottle by siphoning or pouring.  Cap and immediately store in a
cool dark place.  The beverage will be ready for use when clear --
requires one to two weeks.

One crock can be eliminated if the liquid is siphoned directly
into the bottles from the fermented crock.  In this case, place
1/2 teaspoon sugar in each pint or one teaspoon in each quart
bottle.  Best consistent results can be obtained if a five gallon
bottle is used instead of a crock for the fermenting vessel, using
a water seal.  All vessels and tubing should be entirely clear
and sanitary before use.  A 2-3% warm lye solution is an excellent
one for the purpose.  Rinse with water after the use of lye solution.
Use of Hydrometer is not necessary if the above directions are
followed.  The specific gravity at the time of bottling will
however, be 1.012 - 1.016.


*or Dehydrated Vierka Lager Yeast.

- -----------------------end-------------------
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Robb Holmes                       |      WUGA, the Classic 91.7 FM
bitnet: rholmes at uga               |  Georgia Center for Continuing Ed.
internet: rholmes at uga.cc.uga.edu  |      The University of Georgia
- --------------------------Is this thing on?----------------------------

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Date: Sun, 19 Jan 92 13:06:34 -0500
From: dbreiden at mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Subject: Using coriander

For all of you folks out there who have brewed using coriander, I have
two quick questions:

1. How concerned should I be about freshness of the seed?  I have some
   coriander seed that is about 2-3 yrs old.  Any guesses as to whether
   it's fit to use?

2. Should I use the seed whole, or should I crush it a little?  Seems
   like in brewing I've gotten accustomed to crushing everything to
   get the yummies free.  I suppose I'm really asking if anyone can
   imagine any ill effect of crushing.

Thanks,
 -Danny

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #805, 01/20/92