FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  NA Beers (Tom Dimock)
  Whitbread (1098), brewery investments ("Dr. John")
  re: publicly traded breweries (darrylri)
  re: Toffee notes (Carl West)
  re: Agar substitutes  (Carl West)
  Wetting grain for grain mill crushing (Carl West)
  Wort Chillers (Frosty D. Snowman)
  Mineral Content in Hot H2O (Drew Lawson)
  re THM (Chip Hitchcock)
  Re: Autoclaving carboys e (Chris Thompson)
  Re: ss ferment (Tom Quinn 5-4291)
  Yeast Starters / Faucet Adapters (Rich Lenihan)
  Hydrometer Reading (Alan Mayman)
  re: CO2 volumes/temp/pressure chart for kegging (key) (John Hartman)
  Coriander (Ed Westemeier)
  Are Eckhardt's formulae correct? (Stephen Russell)


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Date:         Tue, 21 Jan 92 09:00:40 EST
From: Tom Dimock <RGG at CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:      NA Beers

For those interested in home brewing NA beers - write to Great
Fermentations of Santa Rosa (address in Zymurgy, I don't have
it here) and ask for their latest newsletter.  It has an
excellent article on brewing NA beers using a boil - ferment -
boil process.  The author claims his NA beers are just as good
as his A beers...

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Date:         Tue, 21 Jan 92 09:50:45 EST
From: "Dr. John" <JELJ at CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:      Whitbread (1098), brewery investments

Greetings,
  I read with interest, as always, George Fix's excellent post in today's
HBD (#806).  There is one point which I am a little unclear on though, is
the 3-strain culture only the dried stuff, or is Wyeast 1098 the same
combination in "liquid" (pure?) form?  And if this is indeed the case,
am I maintaining all 3 strains when I cook up slants in my kitchen "lab"
and innoculate them directly from a freshly opened Wyeast packet?

  Chuck Cox, I beleive that the Capital Brewery in Middleton, WI made a
public offering of some sort a few years ago.  I don't know if their
securities are listed or traded anywhere, perhaps someone in
the Mad City has some information they could share with us.
Ooogy wawa,
Dr. John

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Date: Tue Jan 21 06:54:50 1992
From: darrylri at microsoft.com
Subject: re: publicly traded breweries

Chuck, I'd like to supply you with the info you're looking for, but alas,
I don't have it.  CAMRA has a trading club for UK breweries.  However, I
believe that they are losing their collective shirts right now.  (I seem
to recall reading that the fund is worth 89% of its original investment.)

My former motorcycle dealer was a home brewer.  Unless someone else was
buying, however, he only bought Bud.  To show his support of A-B, he
bought a single share in order to frame and hang up.  This was a number
of years ago, and in the 70s, A-B stock value rose enough that they
split 3 for 1.  A-B has ever since been trying to get him to turn in
his share certificate for a new one for three shares, but he doesn't
feel the need to do that.

		--Darryl Richman


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Date: Tue, 21 Jan 92 12:00:21 EST
From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West)
Subject: re: Toffee notes


If your `toffee' flavor is anything like the `brown sugar' flavor 
I got in my last good batch, I would suspect that a caramel additive 
is what you're after. The batch in question was made with a can of 
American Eagle un-hopped light and a can of John Bull hopped amber 
(which has caramel listed as one of it's ingredients) and there was 
a bit of scorching in the kettle (more caramel?).

Your idea (b) may well be a way of getting what you're after.

Carl
WISL,BM.


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Date: Tue, 21 Jan 92 12:08:55 EST
From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West)
Subject: re: Agar substitutes 


I recently made up some `solidified wort' using one package of Knox (tm) 
unflavored gelatine to one cup of wort.I pressure cooked it in it's jars 
for 10 min  at  15 psi and it set up just fine. I used screw-top jars and put 
a little of the wort-gel in each, cooked 'em, tightened their lids and laid 
them on their sides to cool. I haven't had a chance to try putting any yeast 
on them yet so I don't know if they will work in that regard, 
but they *look* like they might work.

Mmmmm! malt Knox Blox! :-}

Carl
WISL,BM.


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Date: Tue, 21 Jan 92 11:06:12 EST
From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West)
Subject: Wetting grain for grain mill crushing


A Dietz's question brought to mind one of my own:

When I ground/crushed malt for the first time I found that 
I was getting a fair bit of flour if I was breaking up grains 
at all, that is, to avoid getting flour, I had to avoid crushing grain :-/ 

Perhaps the grain was too dry? I'm sure it hadn't been stored well. 
Any good suggestions for re-hydrating it? How about running soaked 
grain through a Corona-type mill? Anyone with experience in this?

Carl West

WISL,BM.


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Date: Tue, 21 Jan 92 12:31:10 -0500
From: frosty at mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Frosty D. Snowman)
Subject: Wort Chillers




Hi all.  I have a question.  (Imagine that huh?)

I am still an extract brewer, and when I sparge to my fermenter, I do it
via papazian (ie.  into cold water)   I do not run it through a wort 
chiller.  It does take a certain amount of time to strain the hops and
such.  Does this small amount of time make a difference.  What is the
big advantage to using a wort chiller.

I know that in all grain brewing, temperature considerations are very 
important, but is this also true with extract?

Lastly, if someone has some good ideas for making a wort chiller, I would
love to see them (via email is fine).  I read a little about it in Miller
and Papazian.

Thanks for the time,
Frosty


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Date: Tue, 21 Jan 92 12:45:28 -0500
From: lawson at BDCD102.nrl.navy.mil (Drew Lawson)
Subject: Mineral Content in Hot H2O

There has been a lot of traffic recently on the "hot or cold water"
issue (one of the standard recurrant threads).  There was an extensive
discussion of this a couple months back on Compuserve, of which I only
caught the tail end. :-(

There was one point from that, hovever, that I would like to
contribute.  The water you get from your hot water tap may be
significantly different in mineral content from that you get from the
cold.  The problem in this case is that the iron level may be
significantly elevated.  Of course, this depends on the construction of
your heater, as well as its age.

+------------------------------+--------------------------------------+
| Drew Lawson                  |  If you're not part of the solution, |
| lawson at bdcd102.nrl.navy.mil  |  you're part of the precipitate      |
| 71141.1660 at CompuServe.COM    |                                      |
+------------------------------+--------------------------------------+

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Date: Fri, 17 Jan 92 12:29:33 EST
From: cjh at vallance.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: re THM

richard at pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) says (referencing Miller's CHHB):
> He also says that chloroform is another name for THM.

IFF Miller says that, he blows much of his credibility as a chemist. THM
("trihalomethane[s]") is a generic term including fluoroform (very rare),
chloroform, bromoform, and iodoform. (Fluorine, chlorine, bromine, and
iodine are all halogens(*); -form is an old suffix meaning a molecule
consisting 3 of the named halogen and one hydrogen all attached to one
carbon.) THM also includes all permutations of the above (e.g., 2 chlorine
+ 1 each bromine, hydrogen, carbon).
   Most of the THM in ]typical[ water is probably chloroform, but the
analysis doesn't distinguish---THM's are similar enough chemically that
distinguishing at low levels is (a) difficult and (b) unnecessary---you
don't particularly want \any/ of them in your water.

  (*)My memory of the bottom of the periodic table is fuzzy---I think the
heaviest halogen is astatine, which is radioactive and \very/ rare.

Actually, the previous quote doesn't help Miller look good either:
>				``I draw my brewing and sparge water
> from the hot water tap at about 150'F; at this temperature, chloroform
> boils and chlorine gasses out in a few minutes.''

65C sounds a little low for the boiling point of chloroform, but I don't
have a reference with me. However, the boiling point of a pure liquid has
nothing to do with the temperature to which you have to heat a mixture in
which that liquid is the lowest-boiling compound in order to drive off the
last bit of it. At any temperature, vapor from water with a few ppm of
chloroform in it will be mostly water---the concentration of chloroform
will be higher in the vapor than in the underlying liquid, but not much.
I wouldn't even bet on boiling to remove the last few ppm, as it's an
asymptotic process---the lower the concentration, the less you can get
out.

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Date: Tue, 21 Jan 92 13:30:01 -0500
From: Chris Thompson <christ at sci.ccny.cuny.edu>
Subject: Re: Autoclaving carboys e

Someone asked if anyone had access to large lab equipment, and if so, have
they tried autoclaving carboys.  He was worried about the glass cracking.

	We do, we did, it did.  Scratch one carboy.

Chris
 
- -- 

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Date: Tue, 21 Jan 92 12:26:38 CST
From: quinnt at turing.med.ge.com (Tom Quinn 5-4291)
Subject: Re: ss ferment

Al says

   Date: Mon, 20 Jan 92 14:22 CST
   From: korz at ihlpl.att.com

   Curt asks where the trub would end up after swirling the chilled
   wort.  It should result in something like this:


	 |            |
	 |------------|
	 |            |
	 |            |
	 |            |
	 |            |
	 |     tt     |
	 |    tttt    |
	 |___tttttt___|

   Where the "t's" represent the trub.  Siphon from the edge of the pot.
   Al.

I tried the above approach on my last two batches (which are still
fermenting).  It certainly was faster and easier than my previous
pour-through-the-strainer method, which took a _long_ time through my small
strainer.  However, this implies skipping the sparge-the-hops step as
described in TCJOHB and other places.  Or am I wrong?  Do folks scoop the
trub from pot after the siphon and sparge?  Or is the trub just tossed?

Tom

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Date: Tue, 21 Jan 92 13:57:59 EST
From: rich at bedford.progress.COM (Rich Lenihan)
Subject: Yeast Starters / Faucet Adapters

2 questions:

Yeast Starters:  I've recently started using liquid yeast (Wyeast)
   and while I'm sold on their value for brewing, I've twice had
   trouble getting the yeast started.  In each instance, I popped
   the seal, the package swelled within 24 hours and then I added
   the yeast to my prepared starters (once a dilute dextrose solution,
   once a dilute wort solution).  Both times the yeast died in the 
   starter.  Is there a *simple* sure-fire no-miss method for preparing 
   yeast starters.  Note that I don't currently have access to an
   auto-clave or pressure cooker.

Faucet Adapters:  I recently purchased an immersion chiller and
   was very excited about using it the first time.  Tested it out
   at home and it worked fine.  Brewing time: different story.
   Somehow, in my haste or excitement, I managed to strip the
   threads on my faucet adapter.  So, not only couldn't I get
   the hose to the chiller in straight, I can no longer get the
   aerator back in place.  My wife is not too thrilled (nor would my
   landlord be if he knew).  I figure a trip to the hardware store
   and some $ will fix the faucet.  What I'd like in the future is
   some sort of adapter that would allow me to put the hose onto
   the faucet without removing the aerator.  Ideally, this device
   would allow the hose to snap onto the faucet without screwing.
   Does anyone know of such a gizmo?

Thanks,

 -Rich

Rich Lenihan                 UUCP: mit-eddie!progress!rich
Progress Software Corp.      Internet: rich at progress.com
"Beer is a mellow drink, but it keeps you on the run..." 
                                      - The Bartender's Bounce

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Date: Tue, 21 Jan 92 16:12:42 -0500
From: Alan Mayman <maymanal at scvoting.fvo.osd.mil>
Subject: Hydrometer Reading

Howdy,

I recently aquired a hydrometer for my extract brewing edification, and have been getting what seems to be really low readings.  I have checked my thermometer against a fever thermometer and checked the hydromter in tap water and everything checks out at 60 deg.

But this weekend I brewed a batch with 9.6 pounds (3.3 dark, 3.3 amber, 3 dark DME) and my triple checked hydromter reading was only 1.042.  Does this seem low to you vetrans and if so, what might I be doing wrong?


my new motto:

   "When In Doubt, Drink A Homebrew"

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Date: Tue, 21 Jan 92 08:31:43 -0500
From: hartman at varian.varian.com (John Hartman)
Subject: re: CO2 volumes/temp/pressure chart for kegging (key)

In HBD 805, Ken Key writes:

>Folks were curious about the chart I got for finding the
>pressure to use to artifically carbonate beer.  I entered it
>in and it can be anon. FTP'ed from cs.utk.edu in the
>/pub/key/ directory as co2-chart.  The chart is approx.
>154 char wide by 44 lines long of text.  It was printed from the

If someone with access to the internet could kindly email it to me at
hartman at varian.com this brewer would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks
John

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Date: Tue, 21 Jan 92 21:45:53 EST
From: homebrew at tso.uc.EDU (Ed Westemeier)
Subject: Coriander

Danny Breiden asks about crushing coriander.
 
Ray Spangler (who should know) says that your 2-3 year old coriander will 
be OK to use (R,DW,HAH).  Crush it slightly (just run it through the
grain mill like your malt).  A Half to one teaspoon in the boil is
normally quite enough.  Dry-"hopping" (dry-seeding) with it is at least
three times more effective per unit quantity used.
Coriander should be used very sparingly -- just enough to give a slight
twist to the brew.  When you drink it, you should not be able to
recognize the flavor, unless you know what you are tasting for.  It should
just be "some kind of slightly unusual twist" to the brew.  Note that
this is extremely effective in a sour mash beer.

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Date: Tue, 21 Jan 92 23:18:54 EST
From: srussell at snoopy.msc.cornell.edu (Stephen Russell)
Subject: Are Eckhardt's formulae correct?

WARNING:  HIGHLY NERDLY QUESTION IMMINENT!!

Ok, you were warned...:-)

In Fred Eckhardt's book, _The_Essentials_of_Beer_Style_, he quotes the
following formulae on p. 29:

(1)	AE = RE + .46(ALC)

and on p. 31:

(2)	ALC = .4167(OG - AE)

where:

ALC = weight percent alcohol (3.5% goes in as 3.5)
AE  = apparent extract, in degrees Plato, which is just the final gravity
RE  = real extract, in degrees Plato, which is the final gravity of the
	'wort' you'd get if you boiled off the alcohol
OG  = original gravity, in degrees Plato

with degrees Plato = .25(G - 1), G = specific gravity in g/cc,
and the density of alcohol = .796 g/cc at 60F.

I attempted to derive these, using reasonable (IMHO) approximations and
taking it as only to first-order.  Although the relationships I got were 
similar, the numbers weren't.  If anyone else has done this, did you get
Eckhardt's numbers?  Anyone else interested in trying?

Please e-mail to me directly; I am sure this is not of general interest.

Yes, I know, I have nothing better to do with my time 8-)

Yours in Nerdly Bliss and Heavenly Suds,

STEVE
===============================================================================
Stephen Russell
Graduate Student, Department of Materials Science and Engineering

Internet:  srussell at snoopy.msc.cornell.edu    	work:  607-255-4648
Bitnet:	   srussell at crnlmsc3		        home:  607-273-7306
===============================================================================




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End of HOMEBREW Digest #807, 01/22/92