FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  THM, Miller, Missouri (Andy Leith)
  blow-off (Alan Mayman)
  re: CO2 volumes/temp/pressure chart for kegging (key)
  Test re:Wetting Grain to reduce flour (adietz)
  pH Measurement ("John Cotterill")
  Honey Mead (eapu045)
  Old Carboys (Michael Biondo)
  Unglazed containers (korz)
   (John Freeman)
  Re: Yeast starters (korz)
  Re:  Yeast Starters / Faucet Adapters (Brew Free or Die!  22-Jan-1992 1806)
  Re: Trub Separation (larryba)
  faucet adapters, hot water (John)
  DMS and light Lagers (larryba)
  Eisbock? (David Suda)
  zero-g yeastie boys (Frank Tutzauer)


Send submissions to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues!]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jan 92 09:04:54 CST
From: andy at wups.wustl.edu (Andy Leith)
Subject: THM, Miller, Missouri

>From: cjh at vallance.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock)
>Subject: re THM

>richard at pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) says (referencing Miller's CHHB):
>> He also says that chloroform is another name for THM.

>IFF Miller says that, he blows much of his credibility as a chemist.

As a matter of fact he doesn't say that, he says that chloroform is
a THM, and that the water analysis doesn't distinguish between THM's.

I guess Miller's credibility as a chemist remains intact (although he
has never claimed to be one, he's just a guy that likes to homebrew). 
Perhaps you should read the book rather than speculating about it.

On another Miller topic, the brewpub of which he is brewmaster has
recently opened in St. Louis, after a considerable amount of effort 
expended by Dave on getting Missouri's laws changed. We previously
had a three tier system here which forbade brewers from retailing their
wares, there is now a clause exempting producers of less then 2000 bbls
per year (I think that figure is about right). Homebrewing is still
illegal in Missouri though.

Andy Leith

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 22 Jan 92 10:37:23 -0500
From: Alan Mayman <maymanal at scvoting.fvo.osd.mil>
Subject: blow-off

Greetings & Salutations,

Thanks to all who have shared thier knowledge!

For my next question :) I would like to enquire about blow off tubes.  

In Mr. Millers book he views the act as wastefull and possibly unsanitary (where the tube may provide a path for bacteria to travel back into one's fermenter).  However we also have Mr. Papazian, a proponent of the blow off method, who states the process removes fusel oils (?) and other unsavory gack from your bubbling brew.

In my vast experience (3 batches!) I have found that not so much gack (or spooge-gack as we say `round here) comes out of my blow-tube to make the process prohibitively wastefull, so that leaves the possible route for infection as a possible detractor to this method.

What if I just put the end of my blow tube in a container that has some bleach water or something in it, wouldnt that prohibit any nasties from cruising up by tube (so to speak)?.

Also, what about the contents of the stuff being blown out? Is it truly that detrimental to the finished product?


	Thanks for the help

		- Alan

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 22 Jan 92 10:53:39 EST
From: key at cs.utk.edu
Subject: re: CO2 volumes/temp/pressure chart for kegging

In HBD 807 John Hartman writes:
> If someone with access to the internet could kindly email it to me at
> hartman at varian.com this brewer would greatly appreciate it.

I have already done this and am willing to E-mail the chart
to anyone else without Internet access if you can get me a 
reply-able E-mail address.

Ken Key   (key at cs.utk.edu)
Univ. of Tennessee, Knoxville - CS Dept.

Return to table of contents


Date: 22 Jan 1992  12:27 EST
From: afd at hera.cc.bellcore.com (adietz)
Subject: Test re:Wetting Grain to reduce flour


Carl West asks about getting flour when crushing grain.

I was wondering the same thing as I was crushing grain this past
weekend.  So I tried a couple tests.  Well, I never finished that
PhD in rocket science, so this experiment was qualitative only.
I crushed a cup of grain in a variety of ways (wetted, not wetted, adjusting 
roller spacing), then sifted the results through a kitchen strainer.  The 
sifted stuff was then collected and dissolved in a glass of hot water.

The larger husk pieces float, the malt makes the water cloudy & sinks, 
and the smaller husks tend to sink.  It's easy enough to visually compare
the different crushing methods.  The gist of it was expected: much less 
flour and husks and when grain was wetted.

I've got a master's degree in (kitchen) science,
 -A Dietz
Bellcore, Morristown
afd at hera.cc.bellcore.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 22 Jan 92 10:48:30 PST
From: "John Cotterill" <johnc at hprpcd.rose.hp.com>
Subject: pH Measurement
Full-Name: "John Cotterill"

I have read several souces of information regarding when to measure and
adjust pH during the brewing process.  The recommendations range from only
adjusting the water prior to any brewing, to just doing it in the mash, to
adjusting it everywhere (sparge water, mash, wort).  What do you out in
netland do?
Thanks,
John
johnc at hprpcd.rose.hp.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 22 Jan 92 12:42:58 -0800
From: eapu045 at orion.oac.uci.edu
Subject: Honey Mead

I bottled my first batch of mead last final gravity 994!!!!  With this low
of a reading does that indicate my mead has a high alchol content regardless
of the original gravity.  
The taste was not good, the alchol was easily detected.  Will this alchol
flavor be masked with age?

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 22 Jan 92 15:36:34 CST
From: michael at wupsych.wustl.edu (Michael Biondo)
Subject: Old Carboys

Hello All ...
Supposing you came across an old carboy of questionable origin?  How would
you all go about cleaning the thing to make ABSOLUTELY sure there are no
harmful nasties left.  I've heard suggestions about a strong bleach wash
followed by some sort of acid wash, followed by repeated rinses with 
distilled water until a ph of zero is reached.  This sure SOUNDS thorough.
Is it really necessary?  If so, what about the acid wash?  What type of acid?
What dilution?  The other suggestion I got was to just let the thing sit where
has for years and go in search of one elsewhere.  What do you all think?

   Mike Biondo
   michael at wupsych.wustl.edu

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 22 Jan 92 15:49 CST
From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
Subject: Unglazed containers

I've been saving St. Sebastiaan Crock Ale 75cl bottles, in anticipation
of using them for an Abbey Ale.  They are made of some kind of ceramic
material (talk about being anal about light-struck prevention!).  This
weekend, I noticed that the bottles are only glazed on the OUTSIDE.
I've heard of people getting botulism from unglazed pottery (they even
suspect that some civilizations died-out because of this) but the
acidity of the beer in the bottle would keep the botulism bacteria
from taking hold.  However, from a sanitation point of view (lactobacillus,
etc.) isn't the unglazed inside an invitation for problems?  Am I
making more of this than I should?  It seems to me that the semi-porous
surface of the inside of the bottle is equivalent to the "scratched
plastic fermentor" problem.  Am I missing something?  Maybe if I baked
the bottles?  Maybe if I found some pottery expert to glaze the insides?
Al.

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 22 Jan 92 16:46:56 CST
From: jlf at poplar.cray.com (John Freeman)
Subject: 

> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 92 12:25:24 -0700
> From: 105277 at essdp1.lanl.gov (GEOFF REEVES)
> Subject: Lauter Tun Design
> 
> 
> > 
> > I've read that some people don't like the two-plastic-bucket lauter tun
> > design put forth by Papazian, but from what I've read and what I've heard
> > from friends, it's the only way I can go at this point in my life.
> > I once put a hole in a 7 gal bucket in order to install a spigot.  I used
> > a hole saw, but it was tough cutting!  Much harder than I thought it would
> > be.  I'm wondering it putting a bizzilion 1/8" holes in the bottom of one
> > of these things will take me much longer than 3 weeks!!  Any comment on
> > how long it takes??
> > 
> > Secondly, I've seen it suggested that putting slots in the bottom of the
> > bucket -- using a hot knife to cut -- is a "better" way to go.  I'd like
> > to know why, and I'd also like to know if it's any easier to construct.
> > 
> It only took me about an hour to put a bizzilion holes in the bottom of
> one of those buckets. The problem is that you generally drill from the 
> bottom and that little plastic curley-cues are left on the other side
> which, in this case, is the inside of the bucket. The curley-cues tend to
> partly block the holes. I took a single-edged razor blade and trimmed
> them off. Melting holes (or slots) is another alternative which might
> make globs but no curley-cues. I bet it's a lot slower though since you'll
> have to heat the knife for each hole/slot. With a power drill it's just
> bzzzzzt, bzzzzt, bzzzzt, ...

I'm the one who keeps posting about using a hot knife instead of a
drill.  I've done both and I'm completely sold on the hot knife.
You can pierce three or four hole each time you heat the knife.
(I used a propane torch to heat it.) It takes much less than an hour.  
One reason for doing it is do eliminate the curlicues.  You can
pierce holes for a sparge bucket using a hot pin or nail.  Try it
and flame me if you don't like it.

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 22 Jan 92 17:06 CST
From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
Subject: Re: Yeast starters

Rich writes:
>Yeast Starters:  I've recently started using liquid yeast (Wyeast)
>   and while I'm sold on their value for brewing, I've twice had
>   trouble getting the yeast started.  In each instance, I popped
>   the seal, the package swelled within 24 hours and then I added
>   the yeast to my prepared starters (once a dilute dextrose solution,
>   once a dilute wort solution).  Both times the yeast died in the 
>   starter.  Is there a *simple* sure-fire no-miss method for preparing 
>   yeast starters.  Note that I don't currently have access to an
>   auto-clave or pressure cooker.

Two questions: 1) what were the temperatures of the yeast packet and
the starter, and 2) did you aerate the starter?  If the temperature
difference between the packet and the starter is significant (I don't
know really, say, 10 or 20 degrees) then you could shock the yeast.
You won't kill them all, but you could kill enough to look as if you
did.  If you don't aerate the starter, you won't get a large increase
increase in yeast population and could have a really long lag before
the starter begins to look active.  To make a starter, I simply
boil up a 1018 wort (1 oz of DME in 16 oz of water) and simmer for
10 minutes.  Then I cover the pot so the steam sanitizes the lid and
stick the pot in the fridge till it cools.  I aerate the wort as
I pour it into the starter bottle and then jiggle the starter bottle
to aerate some more.
Al.

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 22 Jan 92 15:17:15 PST
From: Brew Free or Die! 22-Jan-1992 1806 <hall at buffa.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Re:  Yeast Starters / Faucet Adapters

Rich Lenihan writes:

>   and some $ will fix the faucet.  What I'd like in the future is
>   some sort of adapter that would allow me to put the hose onto
>   the faucet without removing the aerator.  Ideally, this device
>   would allow the hose to snap onto the faucet without screwing.
>   Does anyone know of such a gizmo?

What you need is a combination quick-disconnect/aerator.  There are two types
of faucet quick disconnects available, for use on washing machines, dishwashers,
etc.  The part screwed on to the faucet has kind of a narrow outlet on one
type, and does not have a built in aerator.  The other type looks very much
like a Pepsi ball-lock disconnect, and is used to provide aeration when used as
a faucet.  When the other end of the QD is attached, it pushes the aeration
screen out of the way.

You can get these at building supply shops, hardware stores, plumbing suppliers.
They cost about $8 for both halves.  One half has faucet-pitch threads (the
aerator half), and the other end has male hose threads (the QD half).  I have a
6 foot washing machine hose with two female QDs on either end.  My sink faucet
has a male QD end, and so does the inlet of my wort chiller.  My jet bottle
washer has a female QD on it.  I can snap the bottle washer on and off the
faucet in a jiffy, connect my wort chiller in two jiffys, or use just the
hose to clean buckets, or fill buckets for tropical fish maintenance.  I've even
gone so far (too far?) as to build a device out of various pieces of plumbing
that quick connects to the faucet and allows me to spray water through my beer
dispensing hose to clean it after I've drawn just a pint or two from a keg.
I love my QDs!

- --
 Dan Hall   Digital Equipment Corporation   MKO1-2/H10   Merrimack, NH   03054
 hall at buffa.enet.dec.com		        ....!decwrl!buffa.dec.com!hall
  
  "Persons intoxicated with wine pass out lying on their faces, while those
          drunk with beer invariably lie on their backs" --Aristotle

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 22 Jan 92 12:13:26 PST
From: larryba at microsoft.com
Subject: Re: Trub Separation

Tom Quinn asks what people do with the trub/hops stuff left
on the bottom of his SS brew pot after whirlpooling and
racking the wort off.

I used to simply toss the stuff.  Recently I purchased a fine
nylon hops bag (something from Crosby & Baker at my local HB
shop).  I strain the trub through the bag, bottle the wort in
qt mason jars and process (boil) for 30 minutes. I use the
recovered wort for krausening and starters, etc.  I usually
recover 1.5- 2 qt of wort this way.  BTW I use pellet hops.

    - Larry Barello



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 22 Jan 92 19:31:28 CST
From: hopduvel!john at linac.fnal.gov (John)
Subject: faucet adapters, hot water


 Drew Lawson writes about Mineral Content in Hot H2O:
 
 >The water you get from your hot water tap may be significantly different in
 >mineral content from that you get from the cold.  The problem in this case is
 >that the iron level may be significantly elevated.  Of course, this depends on
 >the construction of your heater, as well as its age.
 
Another item that can be elevated in hot water is lead.  In older systems
lead bearing solder was used and significant amounts can be leached into the
tap water.  I have seen several health advisories to this effect.
 
 
 Rich Lenihan writes about Faucet Adapters:
 
 >Ideally, this device would allow the hose to snap onto the faucet without
 >screwing. Does anyone know of such a gizmo?
 
 I have a quick disconnect from an old portable dishwasher, the faucet end can
 be purchased at most hardware stores, I use junked dishwasher parts although I
 supposed you could buy new ones from an appliance repair place.
 
 -- 
 John, The Hop Devil                       
 renaissance scientist and AHA/HWBTA certified Beer Judge 


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 22 Jan 92 15:32:25 PST
From: larryba at microsoft.com
Subject: DMS and light Lagers

About two months ago I posted a request for hints on reducing the
DMS smell in a German Pilsner I made. I finally made a second
batch and tried the tips I received.  I didn't change malts for
this experiment. The big one (actually the only one) was to keep
the kettle uncovered while chilling down the wort (Counter flow
chiller).  This was to allow maximum evaporation of DMS precursors.

I made some other changes as well: I used Wyeast Bohemian Lager
yeast instead of Whitbread Lager, Sazz instead of Tettnanger hops
and krausened with 1 qt of gyle rather than force carbonate.

Well, after a week of carbonating at 48f (no lager period), the
beer had a sulfery, buttery nose.  Actually it wasn't too unpleasant.
After another 4 days of conditioning the sulphery notes seem to
have dissapeared and the buttery nose (diacetyl) is much reduced.
I actually like the softness that trace amounts of Diacetyl gives
to the beer.

It appears that the DMS smell is no longer a problem.  It was either
the yeast or the uncovered kettle that did the trick.

I received my copy of "Continental Pilsners" by Dave Miller.
Interestingly he mentions low fermentation temperatures (48f
being low) as a source of DMS smell.  Appearently warmer
ferments (55f) allow the yeast to reduce/use the DMS.  So,
here is one reference telling me that I need to ferment
warmer to get a "clean" lager!

This is the first time I have used Sazz hops.  They have a nice
clean bitterness.  I am sorry I didn't dry hop with them.  Miller
thinks that is the only way to go.  Well, there is the next version
to be made with continental malts - and dry hopping.

    - Larry Barello


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 22 Jan 92 21:16:47 -0700
From: David Suda <suda at barley.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: Eisbock?

   My brewing partner has committed us to brewing an eisbock. Has anyone
else tried this? How did you freeze the beer? Should it be cooled quickly
or slowly? What percentage water is removed by freezing?

   Our current plan is to start with a dopplebock (OG ~1.080) and then put
it through the "ice" process. Is it possible to carbonate the beer, freeze
it, and then bottle the results with an acceptable carbonation level? Or
is forced carbonation after freezing the only alternative?

   If any of you have experience with or references to this process, I'd
appreciate your help. Also, are there any commercial examples available in
the US?

Dave Suda
suda at barley.colorado.edu

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1992 23:51 EST
From: Frank Tutzauer <COMFRANK at ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu>
Subject: zero-g yeastie boys

Well, the shuttle, Discovery, lifted off this morning (Wednesday), and I
heard on the radio that one of their main projects is to do experiments
on plant growth and small-animal behavior.  What I want to know is this:
If you fermented in a free-fall spherical fermenter, how would you tell
the bottom fermenting yeast from the top fermenting yeast.

:-S

- --frank


Return to table of contents



End of HOMEBREW Digest #808, 01/23/92