FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Re:  Kvas a recipe (Ronald Leenes)
  Camra Guides (Jim Grady)
  The Spelling of Wort (trwagner)
  re: Shipping alcohol through UPS (Richard.E.Brown)
  Thanks  (gkushmer)
  re: kvass (hpfcla!darrylri)
  How much chlorine? (joshua.grosse)
  Cleaning Copper (wbt)
  Re: Jack's NA beer (larryba)
  UPS and Homebrew (Sterling Udell)
  Yeast Disaster ("John Cotterill")
  Mail Order (Daniel S Robins)
  Beer Across America ("Ihor W. Slabicky")
  Beer Across America ("Rad Equipment")
  Beer Across America                   Time:9:51 AM     Date:2/6/92
  CO2 tanks, pressure, etc ("John Cotterill")
  NA Beer (Jack Schmidling)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #817 (February 05, 1992) (319)395-8220"
  BABO, modesty and infamy (C.R. Saikley)
  kvass,kumiss ("KATMAN.WNETS385")
  Call for Midwest Judges (stevie)
  Pre-crushed Grain M**ily? (Walter H. Gude)
  WYeast Book (Jeff Frane)
  Wire top bottles (Scott Welker) (S94WELKE)
  Brew Club E-Mail Database (Stephen Russell)
  Yeast Re-use (Sterling Udell)
  mail failed, returning to sender (lsuc.on.ca!cchtor!lsuc.on.ca!cchtor!cai.lsuc.on.ca!MAILER-DAEMON)
  Homebrew Digest #806 (January 21, 1992)
  mail failed, returning to sender (lsuc.on.ca!cchtor!lsuc.on.ca!cchtor!cai.lsuc.on.ca!MAILER-DAEMON)
  Homebrew Digest #807 (January 22, 1992)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 92 09:07:25 GMT
From: romix at bsk.utwente.nl (Ronald Leenes)
Subject: Re:  Kvas a recipe

Kvas

I got this recipe from a book called 'dinerparty a la perestrojka'. I tried it once, it tasted
terrible, but that was probably due to the fact that the rye-bread was almost burned.

Ingredients:
500 gr. Rye-bread 
8 l water 
25 gr yeast (the book mentions yeast to make bread) 
225 gr sugar
4 spoons of luke warm water
1 lemon
2 spoons of raisins
2 branches of peppermint

1. Put the slices of rye-bread in the oven (200 degrees Celsius) for about 45 mins, until they're
dried.
2. Boil the 8 liters of water. Crumble the dried rye-bread, put it in the boiling water for about
5 mins.
3. Let it the water, and rye-bread rest for 4 hours, covered with a tea-cloth.
4. Crumble the yeast, 15 mins before the 4 hours are over. Mix the crumbled yeast with some sugar
and the luke warm water. Let it rest for 15 mins. 
5. Filter the water-rye-bread mix in a kitchensieve. Carefully extract all water from the rye-
bread.
6. Wash, and peel the lemon. Add the lemon-peel, the sugar, the yeast and the pepermint. Stirr the
solution, and let it rest (covered) for 8 hours.
7. Sieve the solution (tea-cloth).
8. Bottle it.
9. Put some raisins, a bit of lemon-peel, and a fresh leaf of peppermint in every bottle, close
the bottles, and keep them in a cool place.
10. Ready when the raisins start floating.
11. Sieve the stuff one more time in a tea-cloth.
12. Put the Kvas in the fridge 4 hours before drinking.

This is more or less the description the book gives. Remember this is a recipe for non-brewers. It
is a cookbook after all.

Happy brewing!

 ______________________________________________________________________
/ Ronald E. Leenes                     University of Twente            \
|                                      Dept. of Public Administration  | 
| Internet: leenes at bsk.utwente.nl      and Public Policy               |
|           romix at bsk.utwente.nl       P.O. Box 217                    |
| Phone:    X-31 53 892616             7500 AE Enschede                |
| Fax:      X-31 53 356695             the Netherlands                 |
\______________________________________________________________________/  

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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 92 8:42:44 EST
From: Jim Grady <jimg at hpwald.wal.hp.com>
Subject: Camra Guides

Fellow brewers & imbibers,

I was glancing through the latest catalog from Barnes & Noble (insert usual
disclaimer about having no commercial interest in this post) and I noticed
that they have two Camra pub guides for sale.
The pertinent info is:

CLASSIC COUNTRY PUBS............1776095
CLASSIC TOWN PUBS...............1776103

By Neil Hanson, color and b&w photos, 192 pp ea.  $9.95 ea.
	Barnes & Noble
	126 Fifth Avenue
	New York, NY 10011
	1-201-767-7079 (yup, we gotta pay for the call)

BTW, they say that the publisher's price is $16.95 in which case it could be
a pretty good deal.
- --
Jim Grady		   |"Freedom of the press is limited to
Internet: jimg at wal.hp.com  | those who own one."
Phone: (617) 290-3409	   | 			A. J. Liebling

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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1992 08:49:38 -0500
From: trwagner at unixpop.ucs.indiana.edu
Subject: The Spelling of Wort

        I have some books from the 60's and 70's on brewing.  While 
reading through these, I noticed that they almost always spelled wort
as WYRT.  However, when I pick up Papazian's book and others from 
these "modern" times, wort is spelled WORT.  What gives?  Was there
an agreed apon change in the 70's and 80's?

Ted


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Date: 6 Feb 92 09:01:30 EST
From: Richard.E.Brown at Dartmouth.EDU
Subject: re: Shipping alcohol through UPS

I had the same experience (counter person stated that UPS policy forbids
shipping alcohol) in the Wilder (VT) UPS office.  I wrapped it up well, and
UPS'd it from work.  Got there just fine.

Rich Brown                    E-Mail: richard.e.brown at dartmouth.edu
Manager of Special Projects   Preferred AppleLink address:
Dartmouth College                richard.e.brown at dartmouth.edu at internet#
Kiewit Computer Center        Alternate AppleLink address:  A0183
Hanover, NH 03755 USA         Telephone: 603/646-3648

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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 92 8:48:18 EST
From: gkushmer at Jade.Tufts.EDU
Subject: Thanks 


I've received a few responses to my cane sugar query (nobody has had trouble
using it as a primer). 

I tried responding to "Judy" via email, but my mailer couldn't get it out -
thanks for the info Judy!

- --gk


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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 92 06:10:58 PST
From: hpfcmr.fc.hp.com!hpfcla!darrylri%microsoft.com
Subject: re: kvass

There was an article in Zymurgy a few years back on kvass (88 or 87
perhaps?  sigh, all my back issues are in storage).  It claimed that
kvass was mildly alcoholic, in the 2% range.  But I spoke with a Russian
emmigrant not too long after that issue came out and he claimed that it
was non-alcoholic.  Further, he told me that one could buy kvass
extract in some of the Russian shops along Fairfax in the LA area
(Jewish enclave, although that is changing).  Sadly, I never had the
opportunity to follow up on it.

It sounds to me, however, that kvass is a generic name for a drink
made from dark rye, and that when it gets a bit old, it gets hard --
not unlike cider.  Charlie P. has described a number of indiginous
drinks that are good for only a short while, and European beer certainly
used to belong to that list.  I think that kvass may also.

		--Darryl Richman


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Date: Thursday, 6 February 1992 10:35am ET
From: joshua.grosse at amail.amdahl.com
Subject: How much chlorine?


Bob Jones gave some calculations for chlorox bleach solutions and recommends
50-200 ppm levels of the bleach solution for sanitation.  I come up with
different numbers and use much lower amounts.

As I understand it, Chlorox bleach is 5.25% Sodium Hypochlorite (NaOCl) in
solution.  I know that inorganic chlorine compounds are inherently unstable,
and the age of the bottle will effect its strength, as it forms Hypochlorous
Acid and otherwise outgases, etc.  But, for these calculations, lets assume
the 5.25% NaOCl is the starting point.

NaOCl is dissolved in the water as Na(+) and ClO(-) ions, and it is the ClO
which I know from swimming pool maintenance as "Free Available Chlorine."
This ion is a strong oxidizer: by shoving the oxygen molecule where it
otherwise wouldn't go, and then either outgassing as CL2 or combining with
free molecules from what it just oxidized to form chloramines, chlorphenols,
chloroform, etc.  This is my understanding of how chlorine work.

If I grab my trusty dictionary that includes atomic weights, and look up the
weights for Na, O, and Cl, I get:

       Cl  35.453
       O   15.9994
       Na  22.9898

Using these weights, I calculate that the ClO ion is 69.12% of the NaOCl, so
that in a 5.25% NaOCl solution I have 3.63% "Free Available Chlorine" when
fresh from the factory.  This means that chlorox bleach is approximately
36,300 ppm F.A.C.

With 128 oz per gallon, 2 Tbls per oz, 3 tsp per Tbls, I get about 3.5
Tablespoons of bleach to 5 gallons of water to make 100 ppm FAC solution.

Given all that, and given that I keep my swimming pool in the 1-3 ppm range,
I use 1 teaspoon of bleach to 5 gallons of water, and I don't rinse.  This 1
teaspoon gives me around 8-10 ppm, which is about the level I use in the
swimming pool to "superchlorinate" it.  Superchlorination breaks down
chloramine compounds and also breaks up oils (sun tan, skin oil) in the pool.
I find this level of sanitation just fine for soaking, running through
hoses, whatever, and I never fear damaging my yeast or producing chlorphenols
from grain materials. This 10 ppm level in 5 gallons gets my chlorine way down
into the low ppb just by draining carboys and shaking off hoses, wine theifs,
stoppers, funnels, and stuff.  I sanitize bottles in a dishwasher.

- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Josh Grosse                                jdg00 at amail.amdahl.com
Amdahl Corp.                               313-358-4440
Southfield, Michigan

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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 92 10:51:00 EST
From: wbt at cbemf.att.com
Subject: Cleaning Copper


A few weeks ago I asked for suggestions on cleaning new copper tubing for a
wort chiller.  This is a summary of the email replies I received.

eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West) suggested:

> I haven't done this but... it seems that you should be able to run a string 
> through the copper tube using a funnel and a stream of water and then use the 
> string to pull a wad of something or other through to scrub the inside of the 
> tubing. This should work well if the tubing is straight, there'll be more 
> friction the tighter it's coiled, maybe a flow of water would help. 
 
 
"Rad Equipment" <rad_equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.EDU> aka Russ Wigglesworth
said:

> To "cure" my chiller prior to first use, I made up an acidic batch of rinse
> water (4 gallons of water at 180+ degrees and 1 cup of white vinegar) and
> followed that with a 4 gallon rinse of boiling water.

larryba at microsoft.com (Larry Barello)
 
> As for the initial cleaning: oops, I forgot.  I just ran hot wort through
> it.  Come on, this stuff is sold for drinking water.  Any nasties can't be
> that bad.

I'd like to once again thank these folks, as well as all who sent their
suggestions directly to the Digest.

 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Bill Thacker       AT&T Network Systems - Columbus            cbemf!wbt
Quality Engineer      Network Wireless Systems        wbt at cbemf.att.com

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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 92 08:30:59 PST
From: larryba at microsoft.com
Subject: Re: Jack's NA beer

At 170f, jack is not only driving off alcohol, but pasturizing
his beer. One issue that has not been discussed is the flavor
changes that might occur.  It is a Homebrew/beer aficianado's
assertion (momily?) that pasturized beer has a cooked flavor to
it.  The "fresh flavor" of draft beer being the prefered commodity.

Another issue is oxidation.  There is going to be some amount of
it for not other reason than all the extra handling.
In addition, the  hot wort is going to absorb some O2
and react while cooling down.

So, Jack, what is (IYHO) the effects on the flavor of your
beers?  None? Not objectionable?  Have you gotten feedback from
your beer judge buddies in Chicago?  Is the beer a light beer
or a robust IPA?  The latter might mask minor oxidation type
defects.  Naturally if the defects can't be detected, then they
are not a problem!

I look forward to giving this a try with a future spring wheaten
ale.

    - Larry Barello


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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 92 11:11:58 EST
From: sterling at glorfindel.umcs.maine.edu (Sterling Udell)
Subject: UPS and Homebrew

Why don't we try to actually settle the whole UPS debate instead of just
swapping stories about it?

What I'm saying is this:  We homebrewers need access to some official UPS
documentation that says, flat out, "UPS will ship alcohol provided _____."
If we can get a copy of such a document, we can take it with us when we go
to ship homebrew, and show it to any UPS flunky who tries to object. 
Heck, maybe even paste a photocopy of the relevant passage to the outside
of the box . . .

Jeanne Sova talks about a couple of friends high up in UPS.  Can you get
their policy _in_writing_?  Someone else mentioned UPS' Big Book of Regs;
sounds like that would be perfect.  If I had a UPS center anywhere close,
I'd try to track it down myself, but since I'm a couple of hours away from
the closest, this really isn`t practical.  That's why I'm appealing to the
HBD for someone, anyone, to get the straight $#!+ from UPS and put this
thing to rest once and for all.

Sterling Udell
Big Dog Brewing Cooperative - Eastern Division
"Specially brewed with the look of crude."
				- Big Dog Alaska North Slope Oatmeal Stout

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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 92 9:49:33 PST
From: "John Cotterill" <johnc at hprpcd.rose.hp.com>
Subject: Yeast Disaster
Full-Name: "John Cotterill"

With the high cost of using liquid cultures, I decided to start culturing my
own yeast from pure liquid cultures.  My agar slants were ready, my Wyeast 1056
package was swollen, and I had a disinfected area to do the inoculation.  When
I cut the Wyeast package open, a rank odor came out.  I decided to inoculate
anyway since the longer I stalled, the greater the chance of infection to
my now open yeast package, and my agar slants.  After completing the 
inoculation, I smelled the gas in package again.  Definitely foul.  Not wanting
to believe that my yeast was bad and my slants were now garbage, I tasted the
contents of the package.  WOOOOOOOOOOOO!  The stuff was N-A-S-T-Y!!  I was
bummed, but not for long as the keg of IPA I had in the garage salvaged my
evening.  Has anyone had any similar experiences with liquid cultures?  Is
there any reason to worry that I may get sick since I tasted the stuff??
(food poisoning is out since I feel fine today)
JC
johnc at hprpcd.rose.hp.com

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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 92 13:03:16 EST
From: Daniel S Robins <dsrobins at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Mail Order

Hello Homebrewers!

For a year now I have simply gone half a mile to purchase my
brewing supplies.  Recently I have taken up the idea of purchasing
products by mail order.  Specifically, I am looking at Alternative
Beverage in NC.  They have a ton of kits that look pretty good.

I would welcome any comments on Alternative Beverage and perhaps
other mail order companies that offer a good selection at great
prices.  Right now one of my fears is this shipping business, both
price and effect on liquid yeast. 

Thanks....and thanks to all who shared with me Chicago brewpub
suggestions.  Happy homebrewing.

Daniel S. Robins                                    |LUCK OF
Department of Chemistry, The Ohio State University  |THE IRISH
E-MAIL:  dsrobins at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu         |TO YA!
VOICE:  614-292-0426                                |SUDS UP!

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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 92 12:23:17 -0500
From: "Ihor W. Slabicky" <iws at sgfb.ssd.ray.com>
Subject: Beer Across America


I think I must have missed the original posting about this...
Could some repost soem info on them and what they are doing
and to join - or at least an address...


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Date: 6 Feb 92 10:26:26 U
From: "Rad Equipment" <rad_equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Beer Across America

Subject:  Beer Across America                   Time:9:51 AM     Date:2/6/92
**NOT A COMMERCIAL ENDORSEMENT**

I have the BAA brochure in front of me.  I'll give the vital stats.

1-800-854-BEER (2337)

Charges made to Visa/AE/MC

(2) 6 packs of micro brew per month (one from each of two breweries) plus a
newsletter of information on the month's selections and "...discounted prices
on previous selections."

No obligation, quit whenever you want.

Costs:  In the flyer: "You'll be billed aproximately $13.95 plus tax, shipping
and handling." (per month)  On the registration form: "My total monthly average
cost will be aproximately $13.95 plus tax, shipping and handling."  And further
on: "Deliver to my: __Office ($3.25) __Home ($3.75)  (The above price includes
shipping and handling, Illinois residents only.  Outside Illinois shipping and
handling will be $1.00 to $4.00 higher.)"

There are no restrictions mentioned as far as where they will ship to.

Worst case is $7.75 S&H plus the aprox. $13.95 for the beer = $21.70 a month,
or $10.85 per 6 pack.  I have done a lot of shipping of commercial beers to
people and this is about the cost I incur.  And I don't make anything off of my
shipments!  Sounds pretty reasonable to me.  As long as the beer is well cared
for (which Bill Crisafulli says is the case) I think this will be worth the $$.

Let's hear from those of you who belong as to the condition of the brews.

RW...

      Russ Wigglesworth              CI$:      72300,61
|~~|  UCSF Medical Center            Internet: Rad Equipment at RadMac1.ucsf.edu
|HB|\ Dept. of Radiology, Rm. C-324  Voice:    415-476-3668 / 474-8126 (H)
|__|/ San Francisco, CA 94143-0628


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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 92 10:35:30 PST
From: "John Cotterill" <johnc at hprpcd.rose.hp.com>
Subject: CO2 tanks, pressure, etc
Full-Name: "John Cotterill"


Al (korz at ihlpl.att.com) writes:

>I use a 20# CO2 tank and 5gallon Cornelius Kegs (soda).  The last
>two tanks of CO2 lasted me about 8 batches each -- but I may have
>had a leak.  I use a LOT of CO2 for non-dispensing and about half
>those batches were primed and naturally carbonated, half force

You definitely have a leak!  I used to use a 5 lb bottle (15 lb now for
convenience).  I too use my CO2 for dispensing, transfering, purging air,
carbonation, etc.  My last 5 lb bottle lasted about 30 batches!  The difference
in our set-up (I suspect) is that I do not leave my CO2 connected to the
kegs of beer.  I simply set the keg to 15 psi, then disconnect the CO2.
When I want to drink the beer, I drop the pressure to 5 psi, hook up the
CO2 and dispense at 5 psi.  When I'm done drinking, I jack up the CO2 to
15 psi again and disconnect it from the keg.  Occasionally, a small leak will   
develop in a keg, and I'll lose carbonation.  No problem, I just re-     
carbonate it.  This is generally not a problem, however.

I performed an experiment once where I left my CO2 connected.  I used a leak
detector solution to see if there were any leaks.  I could not find any.
The CO2 tank was about half full.  After a week it was empty.  I was 
fairly surprised!  No leaks, and it leaked!  I then added some CO2 from
another bottle, to the same keg, and then disconnected the CO2 hose.  The keg
was still at pressure a week later.  

I am pretty sure that some of the CO2 leaked from the flare fittings on the
soda connector/CO2 line interface.  I have been told by people in the soda
industry that this type of connection is notorious for leaking.  A few days 
ago, I was looking in the Foxx catalog and noticed these little nylon washers
that sit between the male and female flare.  I have ordered some and will
see if they help prevent leaks while the system is all connected.

JC
johnc at hprpcd.rose.hp.com

- --
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~       John Cotterill  (916) 785-4138          ~
~       Systems Technology Division             ~
~       8010 Foothills Blvd.                    ~
~       Roseville, CA 95678                     ~
~       HPDesk: John (hprpcd) /HP5200/UX        ~
~       Unix to Unix: johnc at hprpcd.rose.hp      ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 92 08:39 CST
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject:  NA Beer

 
 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling
 
 From: Jean Hunter <MS3Y at CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu>
 Subject:      NA Beer - the Schmidling Method
 
 >Jack and I have been corresponding off-net about NA beer; he now has my
 mailing address but has suggested that I repeat his experiment with a 1-gal
 batch and analyze my own samples rather than analyzing his samples. 
 
 I believe I suggested using one bottle of beer for the test.  My exact words 
 were...
 
 I suggest that anyone who has the capability of measuring alcohol in beer 
 take a bottle of their own and pour half of it into a beaker.  Heat this to 
 170F (uncovered) and let it cool (uncovered) and make the tests on this and 
 the other half of the bottle.
 
 Then, tell us it DOESN'T work.  "Can't" work, simply is not good enough.
 
 The only caution I inject is that a Bunsen burner, full blast on a 100 ml 
 beaker may not simulate the heating rate of gas stove on a gallon.  I think 
 the total time is irrelevant because it is proportional to volume but heating 
 rate might affect the results.
 
 .............
 
 Clearly, you do not need a gallon of beer and the effort it takes to process 
 one bottle just doesn't justify the trouble and expense of sending mine to 
 you unless you get results significantly different from what I published.  I 
 also explained (in email) that I do not, at the moment, have any available to 
 ship, that was made in precisely the prescribed manner.
 
 < On the digest, on the subject of my lab analyzing his samples, he writes:
 
 >  However, upon further consideration, it seems not only a waste of energy
 >  but hardly in the true "scientific tradition".  After all, what is to
 >  prevent me from re-bottling a can each, of Old Style and Kingsbury?
 
 <Nothing, Jack, except that in a scientific collaboration like the one I
 proposed, one of the traditions is that I trust you and you trust me.  As a
 professional researcher and research mentor, I take scientific integrity
 very seriously, and I can't <g> or RDW when the joke is about the possibility
 of anybody's research fraud taking place in my lab.
  
 As a scientist you MUST trust NOBODY.
 
 <Now if Jack doesn't trust the HPLC, that is perfectly understandable, and
 we should definitely run the Old Style and Kingsbury's as experimental
 controls along with some Schmidling Method NA Beer.
 
 You missed the point entirely.
 
 Egos are terrible things.  I have been raked over the coals in this forum and 
 accused of everything from being a fraud to a Nazi.  Some people with tender 
 feelings, just might resort to dishonesty to redeem themselves.
 
 That is why I suggested you (all) conduct the experiment independantly and 
 whether you believe it or not, that is the way science works.  Otherwise, I 
 could also include a battery I charged using my cold fusion process.  If it 
 is fully charged when you get it, that would prove my cold fusion prosess, by 
 your standards.
 
 js
 


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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1992 12:36 CDT
From: "TERRY O'DEA ROCKWELL INTERNATIONAL (319)395-8220"
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #817 (February 05, 1992)


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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 92 11:00:32 PST
From: grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: BABO, modesty and infamy


Micah Millspaw writes:

>>        I would like to metion that the Bay area brewoff on January
>>25th went nicely. There were over 150 entries. 

And Richard Stueven responds:

>Micah is too modest.  He neglects to mention that he won one of those
>great prizes himself, as did another (in)famous HBD contributor,
>CR Saikley.

>From Webster's :

	famous - adj 1. a : widely known b : honored for achievement
		     2. EXCELLENT, FIRST RATE

	infamous - adj 1. having a reputation of the worst kind
		       2. DISGRACEFUL

Hmmmm. I guess there's a fine line.......:-) :-)

All seriousness aside, this year's BABO was a smashing success. HBDer's
Bob Jones, Russ Wigglesworth, Tom Altenbach, Micah Millspaw and myself 
were in attendance. This is a really fun event, and I'd recommend it
to anyone near the Bay Area.

The event took place at Lyon's Brewery of Dublin, which is a pub - not
a brewery. Not only was lunch provided, but Judy, publican at Lyon's,
supplied two rounds of beers for all of the judges (and stewards??).
The Brewer's Brass, an all brass band of very talented musicians and
homebrewers, performed during lunch and during the truly infamous Brew 
Dude Fashion Show. Then the Rolling Boil Blues Band (sometimes known as 
the Flocculating TRUBadours) dazzled the audience with their musical 
ineptitude ;-) All in all it was a good time.

I have a good reason for being modest about the awards I garnered that day.
I didn't get any! In fact, I had no entries. However, I was fortunate enough 
to judge the holiday ale category, and there were some tasty brews indeed. 
It was a very difficult category to judge as few objective criteria exist. 
We decided to use commercial examples (such as Anchor and Sierra) as rough 
guidelines, although it is necessarily a loosely defined style. It turned 
out to be a very popular category, with 36 or so entries. Fortunately, there 
was a preliminary judging that winnowed the number of entries down to a 
manageable 13.

Has anyone else out there judged holiday beers or specialty brews?? I'd be 
interested in hearing of your experiences in judging these tough styles.

Yours in Infamy,
CR

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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 92 19:19 GMT
From: "KATMAN.WNETS385" <6790753%356_WEST_58TH_5TH_FL%NEW_YORK_NY%WNET_6790753 at mcimail.com>
Subject: kvass,kumiss



     Date: 06-Feb-92      Time: 02:18 PM       Msg: EXT02802

Hi folks,
I have recipes for both kvass (fermented bread drink) and kumiss (fermented
mare's milk drink) at home (also lots of other non-beer fermenting recipes).
I'll post them along with some interesting historical/sociological discussions
by the author tomorrow or Monday.

Onion Wine, anyone?
Lee (I'm female :) Katman == Thirteen/WNET == New York, NY

=Do not= use REPLY or ANSWERBACK, I can not receive mail in that fashion.
Please send all mail to
INTERNET katman.wnets385%wnet_6790753 at mcimail.com
OR
MCIMAIL EMS: wnet 6790753  MBX: katman.wnets385



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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 92 18:49:48 CST
From: stevie at spss.com
Subject: Call for Midwest Judges

This year, the AHA National Homebrew Competition has expanded to include 
another regional first-round judging site -- Chicago (finals will be at the
AHA National Conference in June in Milwaukee).  The deadline for entries is
April 1, with judging scheduled for the weekend of April 10-12 at Goose Island
Brewing Co.

While the Chicago-area beer geeks are a hearty bunch, the expected number of
entries will likely exhaust the palates (and bladders) of our BJCP-certified
judges.  So, the call goes out!  If you are a BJCP beer judge interested in
working the first round, please let me (stevie at spss.com) know.  You don't even
have to be from the Midwest to joint us.  Wherever you're from, if you expect to
be in Chicago over April 10-12, we want you.

Planning is now underway for a solid weekend of beer events, including a tour
of Chicago Brewing Company (home of Legacy Lager and others) and visits to 
other local brewpubs and beer bars.  Housing will also be available to those
who need it.  More detailed info to follow.

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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 92 14:51:57 CST
From: whg at tellab5.tellabs.com (Walter H. Gude)
Subject: Pre-crushed Grain M**ily?


There's that work again :-).

Seriously,  I've asked this question and I've seen it asked by others at
least twice with no reply.

1) How long can one keep crushed grains?    

Everyone says you can't keep them "very long".  Would someone care to 
quantify "very long".  Is it a month? a week? a day?

2) What are the effects?

Decreased effectiveness? Stale taste?  Mold?  

3) Can you quantitatively tell the grain has gone bad? How?


While I don't like to keep crushed grain around myself, I'm beginning
to wonder how much folk lore is involved here.  

Somebody (anybody) have comments?

Walter Gude



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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 92 14:16:28 PST
From: gummitch at techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: WYeast Book

Brian Smithey (hey! looks like your address changed; didn't you used to
have a .gov attached to your name?)

I note in the most recent Homebrew Digest your question about WYeast's
book on yeast.  And, yes, it's supposed to be out now . . . but it
isn't.  Dave has been too busy, apparently, to write much on it or to
bug me for my share.  When we had our last conference on the book he had
arrived at a much more ambitious outline than we'd originally developed.
When completed, the book will have a great deal of useful information on
general usage and specifically on the strains WYeast is carrying.

The truth is, I've been ducking Dave -- or anyway, not calling him --
because I've got to get cracking on my pages.  I'm sure Dave is, as
usual, swamped out at the Yeast Farm, and I know he's been working hard
trying to resolve packaging problems with the manufacturer back east.

Incidentally, I peeked in to the CompuServe beer forum today for the
first time in a long time and noticed a thread about WYeast's monopoly
of the homebrewer's yeast biz. !!  Someone there has a confused idea of
capitalism; I know for a fact that Dave and his wife, Jenny, have busted
their asses to make WYeast a successful business.  They provided a
breakthrough package and exquisitely high quality control (they come by
it honestly; both of them were Food Science students under my pa!) and
created an economic niche that didn't exist previously.  A brief look at
the recipes of winning beers in the last few years' AHA competitions is
enough, I think, to convince anyone of the quality of their product.
What isn't obvious is the number of microbreweries and brewpubs who rely
on WYeast to maintain their yeast bank or supply.

Ooog, what a diatribe!

- --Jeff Frane



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Date:     Thu, 6 Feb 92 21:57 EST
From: <S94WELKE%USUHSB.bitnet at VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:  Wire top bottles (Scott Welker)

Here's a question for my fellow homebrewers: I am considering brewing a fine
dark ale as a gift for various occasions.  But bottles are my worry; I was
hoping to use 1 liter glass wire top bottles, which can be bought at food
specialty and gourmet shops.  They look far less sturdy than the standard
homebrewing wiretop, Grolsch empties.  Has anyone out there ever successfully
brewed in the department store variety?  Looking forward to your direct (or on
the HBD) replies.
- --Scott Welker, Lt, USAF
USUHS School of Medicine

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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 92 22:49:08 EST
From: srussell at msc2.msc.cornell.edu (Stephen Russell)
Subject: Brew Club E-Mail Database

Homebrew club members (and potential members) on the digest:


I am compiling a database of the e-mail addresses of members of homebrew
clubs that are willing to have them available to both other clubs and 
potential members.

This is a reposting.  Sorry to take up the bandwidth BUT I really do think
that having a database of e-mail addresses of members of Canadian, U.S.
and other homebrew clubs would be of great value.

For one, it would provide easy reference for persons interested in joining 
your club.  This would help boost membership, enthusiasm, etc.

For another, it would enable you to publicize interclub events such as
homebrewing competitions and the like directly.

So far, I have received responses from 55 brewers representing 36 clubs in 
24 states and provinces.  Which is not a bad start, but I hope to do better,
considering that in the U.S. alone there are more than 170 clubs.

With that in mind, I'll call for responses one more time:

*IF* you are a member of a homebrew club *AND* are willing to be listed in 
such a database, please send me e-mail with your state/province and club 
name in the subject header (as in NY/Ithaca Brewers' Union) and your name 
and e-mail address(es) on one line in the body of your message text.  
Please, no .sigs.

Send information to me at <srussell at msc2.msc.cornell.edu> on internet or at
<srussell at crnlmsc2> on bitnet.  

Administrative/questions/advice/grief should be sent to my 'regular' address, 
<srussell at snoopy.msc.cornell.edu> or <srussell at crnlmsc3>.  Yes, I do plan to 
send this on to the archives and hope to update it somewhat regularly.

If you know of fellow homebrewers who have access to e-mail but do *not*
subscribe to this digest, please ask them if they would be interested in
this database and explain how they can respond.

By the way, I have no commercial connections whatsoever.  I am just a member
of a homebrew club that has utilized intraclub e-mail communication extremely
effectively (some 40 of our 85-90 members are on e-mail), and I think that
the concept could be extended to the interclub level without much difficulty.

I look forward to hearing from you.  And 'thank you' to the 55 respondents.

Cheers and beers, skol, mud in your eye, prosit, sante, slainte,

STEVE


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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 92 23:00:02 EST
From: sterling at gandalf.umcs.maine.edu (Sterling Udell)
Subject: Yeast Re-use

I'm planning to try the Father Barleywine yeast cake re-use trick this weekend,
and I have a quick question for those of you who have successfully done this
technique before.

Do you need to oxygenate the wort with this method?  Kinda seems like the yeast
won't really need to go through much of a reproductive phase (since they're all
there from the last batch), so oxygenation will be unnecessary.

Please e-mail responses to me directly, and I'll hopefully get them before I
start the brew.  Thanks!

Sterling Udell
Big Dog Brewing Cooperative - Eastern Division
"Specially brewed with the look of crude"
			- Big Dog Alaska North Slope Oatmeal Stout

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Date: 	Sat, 1 Feb 1992 21:53:00 -0500
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #819, 02/07/92