FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  re:KVASS (TSAMSEL)
  EXPLODING KEG LINE (Mike Zentner)
  Homebrew Digest ("Maximillian D. Robbins")
  How to Read HBD on your Macintosh, read on! (KIERAN O'CONNOR)
  The Yeast Book (Brian Smithey)
  Coffee (L M Stuntz)
  shipping via UPS (Jeanne Sova ASQNC-TAB-IS 5320)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #817 (February 05, 1992) (Dan Hahn)
  YASSS (Yet Another Siphon Starting Suggestion) (Douglas DeMers)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #815 (February 03, 1992) (319)395-8220"
  Kvass, BavariaREAD/NEW (radavfs)
  Bleach sanitizing revisited (Bob Jones)
  CO2 milage (korz)
  Re: Kvass, anyone? (korz)
  Re: B.A.B.O. & NA Beer from Micah Millsapw (Richard Stueven)
  Pressure in CO2 Tanks (Mike Fertsch)
  Barlywine Questions (A Nelligan)
  sanitazation (A Nelligan)
  banana esters (Brett Shorten)
  NA Beer - the Schmidling Method (Jean Hunter)


Send submissions to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues!]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date:    Wed, 5 Feb 1992 7:03:25 -0500 (EST)
From: TSAMSEL at ISDRES.ER.USGS.GOV
Subject: re:KVASS

  I thought kvass (or kumiss) was made of fermented mare's milk. How
would one get alcohol from that?
  Ted

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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 92 09:13:17 -0500
From: zentner at ecn.purdue.edu (Mike Zentner)
Subject: EXPLODING KEG LINE


This got me to remembering something.  I had wondered how long will it be
before some frat guys try this trick I saw on an episode of MacGyver.
Anyone know what I'm talking about?  He made a long tube, put a keg
of beer at one end.  The keg had a bung on the bottom.  He lit a fire 
at the bottom of the keg, causing the thing to get hot, shoot the bung,
then go firing out the other end of the big tube to shoot down a door.
I have doubts about this working as fast or as violently as it did on
tv, but an interesting experiment I'd think.

MIke Zentner
zentner at ecn.purdue.edu

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Date:         Wed, 5 Feb 92  09:20:18 EST
From: "Maximillian D. Robbins" <ROBBINSM%GUVM.bitnet at VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Homebrew Digest

      Information Systems
Can anyone give me a recipe for Chimmay Trappiste ale?
Please send a note to me at
Robbinsm at guvm.georgetown.edu
Thanks in advance.

In-Reply-To:  note of 02/05/92 03:37

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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1992 10:14 EDT
From: KIERAN O'CONNOR <OCONNOR%SNYCORVA.bitnet at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: How to Read HBD on your Macintosh, read on!

Hi folks,

I fellow I met through the 'net has created a HyperCard stack for
those who read the HBD and would like to read it on their Mac instead
on on their mainframe.  A few detailsd as to how this works:

1) You download as many HBD's as you want to your Mac.
2) You run the "Homebrew Browser" and import as many HBD's into the
stack
3) You then will be presented with 2 screens, a left one with message
headers, and a right one with the messages.
4) You can scroll on either side, but the cool part is that if you
scroll through the message headers and click on one in the left
window, the right window will pull up the associated message.
5) If you hold down the option key while selecting a message
header--you will move to the message, and copy the message to a black
card (for replying).
6) If you prefer to look throught a month's worth of HBD's, this will
save a ton of time.
7) It's only $5.

OK.  I'm just the point man on this, I didn't write it, nor am I
getting anything out of it--it will be ready within the week, and as
soon as I can figure it out, I'll put it into the HBD archives.  For
now, if you want a copy, send me a message with the message header "I
want a brew browser", with your e-mail address included.  Ill set up a
distribution file, and Ill send you one.  Ill also re-post to HBD when
I send out.

Any questions, e-mail me.

Kieran O'Connor

oconnor at snycorva.bitnet

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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 92 08:23:37 MST
From: smithey at rmtc.Central.Sun.COM (Brian Smithey)
Subject: The Yeast Book

My latest Wyeast package (dated Jan 7 '92) has a new package design,
and on the back it mentions "The Yeast Book" from Wyeast.  Has anybody
seen this book yet?  Didn't Jeff Frane mention a while back that he was
working on a book with Dave Logsdon?  Jeff, is this the book, and is it
finished/available?  If anybody has seen this book I'd appreciate seeing
a short review or table-of-contents-like report posted here.

Thanks,
Brian
- --
Brian Smithey / Sun Microsystems / Colorado Springs, CO
smithey at rmtc.Central.Sun.COM

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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 92 08:54:45 -0800
From: lms at iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (L M Stuntz)
Subject: Coffee

About adding coffee to stout:

For Xmas my wife got me a "Coffee Toddy" - it makes coffee with 
cold water and claims no boiling means no oil/acid released from
the coffee.  Basically it's a bucket with a hole in the
bottom that you put a cork in from the outside. A filter fits over the
hole inside - the filter is a half inch thick fiberous thing. 
You add about a pound of ground coffee to a gallon of cold water 
and let it sit for a day.  Pull the cork out over a container 
and voila! Liquid instant coffee.  This stuff is VERY strong - you 
add water like 4:1 to make drinkable coffee. I don't know the chemistry
behind it but I believe there is less acid in this than regular coffee
it doesn't upset my stomach at all. And it tastes smoother - not always
what I want in coffee but I would like it in beer.

Seems like this would be perfect for adding to a stout.
I haven't tried it yet but I'm going to.

Larry

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Date:     Wed, 29 Jan 92 11:20:50 EST
From: Jeanne Sova ASQNC-TAB-IS 5320 <jsova at APG-9.APG.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:  shipping via UPS


    from John Freeman:

    Well, I hate to do bring this up again, but how does one ship beer?
    
    I just came from my unfriendly local UPS Center where I was told "We
    don't ship alcohol of any kind".  The manager gave me the same story.
    First, they tried to tell me it was a law.  When I pointed out that it
    wasn't a law, and asked him to show me a written policy, then he said he
    could refuse my package for any reason.  After more BS, he said he was
    sorry he couldn't help me.  I doubt his sincerity.

sorry if this has been addressed and finished already, but i'm kinda 
behind in my reading.  i hate it when i don't have time for my fun stuff
at work!  anyway, i was going to bring this up during the last thread of
this, but everyone seemed to answer the questions, but this time i'm
really curious.  john, could you tell me where it was you were told this,
such as which store?  my best friend and another really good friend both
work in upper level UPS.  i asked them what UPS's policy was on shipping
beer/alcohol/homebrew.  they both assured me UPS would ship it.  it is
NOT illegal.  they said the only thing to worry about would be wrapping
it properly to make sure it doesn't break and you might want to send it
as a perishable item to prevent spoilage.  they were a little concerned
that UPS people were refusing to send it.  interesting.


jeanne

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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 92 12:58:33 -0500
From: danhahn at ecn.purdue.edu (Dan Hahn)
Subject: Re:  Homebrew Digest #817 (February 05, 1992)


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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 92 11:03 PST
From: dougd at uts.amdahl.com (Douglas DeMers)
Subject: YASSS (Yet Another Siphon Starting Suggestion)

(Mea culpa!  I first sent this to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com -
hope it doesn't appear twice...)

Recently, there have been many interesting and creative :-) as well as
practical suggestions for starting siphons, but nobody has mentioned
the technique I now use.  Now that I have the 1.5(?)" blowoff tube, I
no longer need my 3/8" blowoff tube as a blowoff tube.  I sanitize the
blowoff tube (and tip that used to go into the stopper) the same time I
sanitize the rest of the siphon tubing.  When I need to start my
siphon, I stick the blowoff tube tip inside the end of the siphon hose
 - also conveniently 3/8" - and suck on the end of the blowoff tube.
Once the siphon is started, I clamp off the tube above the blowoff tube
coupling and disconnect the two pieces of tubing.

Since the "first flow" through the siphon clears the residual chlorine
bleach, I would have discarded it anyway.  I can use this sample for
gravity readings and taste-check.

With this method, my mouth never touches the "real" siphon hose.  If,
perchance, the siphon doesn't start the first time - no big deal.  Suck
on the end again.  I never disconnect the two hoses until I'm sure the
siphon is going.  It works for me.  Your mileage may vary.

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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1992 14:35 CDT
From: "TERRY O'DEA ROCKWELL INTERNATIONAL (319)395-8220"
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #815 (February 03, 1992)

info beer-l
info ?
list beer

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Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1992 16:31:23 EST
From: radavfs at ube.ub.umd.edu
Subject: Kvass, BavariaREAD/NEW

>John B writes:

   That's not quite it.  Back some 170 years plus when the brewery was founded,
this part of Germany belonged to the Kingdom of Bavaria.  They tried to change
the name to something more regional in the early 1980's, but the locals were
aghast that their beer heritage was being tampered with (that and sales dropped
dramatically :-).

>I would suggest to any student of German history that they take a
>look at a map of Germany in the 18th century to illustrate the strange sprawl
>of the hundreds of German states - it really is a mosaic!  Thanks for the
>info, John! :)  

Then, Fritz Keinert <keinert at iastate.edu> writes:

>A friend of mine of Lithuanian descent told me about a drink they make
>there for special occasions, based on fermented rye bread. Some time
>later, I checked out a Russian cookbook from the library, and they
>also mentioned a drink called "kvass" based on fermented bread. I
>assume they were talking about the same thing. The cookbook did not
>give any details.

>Does anybody know more about this?
Only that this drink is immensely popular in the summertime in Russia!
I visited Moscow in the summer of 1984, and was surprised to see people
lined up at (sometimes horse-drawn) tank-cars, similar to those used
to transport water on farms.  The cars said KBAC (i.e. Kvass in Cyrillic)
and I didn't find out until later what it was - it is indeed some sort of
fermented bread drink.  One person tried it and was underwhelmed.  I'll
have to wait until I get back there...:)  Best, Volker Stewart 
RADAVFS at UBE.UB.UMD.EDU


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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1992 15:33 PDT
From: Bob Jones <BJONES at NOVA.llnl.gov>
Subject: Bleach sanitizing revisited

After a private email conversation with George Fix concerning my bleach 
sanitizing concentrations I made another call to my contact at Clorox. The 
microbiologist there reconfirmed that 50-200ppm of chlorine was the best 
concentration for sanitizing. The key word here is "CHLORINE". She said 
contact time on the order of a few minutes was adequate for a good kill if 
the vessel was cleaned first with a good detergent.  My original post on 
bleach concentrations was based on using the stock bleach solution and 
then diluting to the working concentrations. No one ever said if the 
recommended concentrations were stock bleach or the free available 
chlorine in the bleach. When one takes the standard stock bleach solution 
which is 25000ppm chlorine and then dilutes it in 5 gals of water to obtain 
the proper concentration for sanitizing, the quantities are quite different 
from my original post. The new values look like this...

Bleach                    Chlorine in                         Residue in final
added                   5 gal of water                              beer
_____                   _____________                        _____________
2T                          40ppm                                 .01ppm
1/2C                    160ppm                                 .04ppm
5 oz                     200ppm                                 .05ppm
1C                        320ppm                                 .08ppm

The above residues were calculated based on 1t of sanitizing solution 
being diluted with 5 gals of beer. The dilution factor is 3855. The figures 
look even better now.
    So 1/2C or 5 oz. of stock bleach solution seems about right to me for 
sanitizing in 5 gals. of water. 2T or 1 oz. of bleach in 1 gal of water will 
give 200ppm chlorine.
    I also ask about dumping these concentrations into septic tanks and 
she didn't seem to think it would be a problem.

Bob Jones


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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 92 17:54 CST
From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
Subject: CO2 milage

I use a 20# CO2 tank and 5gallon Cornelius Kegs (soda).  The last
two tanks of CO2 lasted me about 8 batches each -- but I may have
had a leak.  I use a LOT of CO2 for non-dispensing and about half
those batches were primed and naturally carbonated, half force
carbonated.  When I say a LOT of CO2 for non-dispensing, I mean:
forcing sanitizing solution out of the keg, forcing out rinse
water and/or rinse industrial beer (several of the batches), purging
kegs of air before siphoning into them, etc.  I suspected a leak
and tightened everything down again (I have a 4-product setup --
LOTS of fittings, hoses, clamps, etc.).  After that, I checked
all the possible leak locations with a little dishwashing liquid
in water -- no leaks.  Too bad I did not check before tightening.

I think Ken's approximation of 60 kegs for a 5 lb tank may be high,
though.  It depends on how much of a leak I had -- I hope Ken's right.

Al.

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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 92 18:19 CST
From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
Subject: Re: Kvass, anyone?

Fritz writes:
>A friend of mine of Lithuanian descent told me about a drink they make
>there for special occasions, based on fermented rye bread. Some time
>later, I checked out a Russian cookbook from the library, and they
>also mentioned a drink called "kvass" based on fermented bread.

There are two Lithuanian drinks that I know of, but I'm not sure about
whether they are both fermented or not.  I've been meaning to ask my
grandmother about this, but keep putting it off.  One is called
"gira," which I know is made from rye bread, but I don't know if
it is fermented -- my grandmother used to give us kids some, but if
it sat around longer it... hmmm?  Another is called "pieninis," which
is (I believe) made from milk (pienas == milk)! I know pieninis is
fermented.  I've got to get these recipes -- if they are truly brews,
how could a homebrewer of 100% Lithuanian descent let their family
recipes be lost?!

Al (Algis).

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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 92 17:29:01 PST
From: Richard.Stueven at Corp.Sun.COM (Richard Stueven)
Subject: Re: B.A.B.O. & NA Beer from Micah Millsapw

Micah Millspaw writes:

>        I would like to metion that the Bay area brewoff on January
>25th went nicely. There were over 150 entries. there also were some
>great prizes,ribbons ,cash,hops etc. The judges ( myself included)
>were provided with some great food and beer after the event. In all
>it was a lot of fun.

Micah is too modest.  He neglects to mention that he won one of those
great prizes himself, as did another (in)famous HBD contributor,
CR Saikley.

I wish I could remember their categories...maybe they'll enlighten us?

gak

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Date: Tue, 4 Feb 92 15:06 EST
From: Mike Fertsch <FERTSCH at adc1.adc.ray.com>
Subject: Pressure in CO2 Tanks

Key Key makes some calculations about keg pressure, and extrapolates
to amount of gas in the tank:

>My 5lb tank has gone from 800PSIg to 760PSIg.  It is grossly 
>unfair to say that each keg cost 20PSI but using that as another outside 
>approximation shows the tank's good for 35-40 kegs

The problem with these calculations is that CO2 tanks are filled with
liquid CO2, not gas.  The gauge simply measures the pressure of the gas
above the liquid, not the quanity of CO2 in the tank.

As gas is compressed, it reaches a point where the the gas starts
condensing into a liquid.  As more an more gas is put in the tank, the
pressure stays the same, but more liquid 'gas' collects.  The gauge
measures the pressure where the gas condenses, which is a function of
temperature.  The gauge is a good measure of tank temperature, rather than
the quantity of gas.  As a tank is emptied, the pressure stays the same
until all the liquid CO2 evaporates, then the pressure drops quickly. 

Mike Fertsch
reply to mikef at synchro.com

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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 92 09:13:22 EST
From: anelliga at hamlet.Prime.COM (A Nelligan)
Subject: Barlywine Questions


In answer to Greg's Barlywine issue:

We also made concocted a barleywine out of TCJOHB.
Our recipe looked something like this:

2 cans Munton & Fison Light Malt Extract
2 lbs Munton a& Fison light dried malt extract
1/4 lb domino light brown sugar
3 1/2 ox fuggles  hops
another 1/2 oz fuggles for finishing
2 pkg Munton & Fison ale yeast.

We did a single stage fermentation, so I can't answer your
question about how long to age in secondary.

We gave the finishing hops 10 minutes.

As far as conditioning in bottles--
well, it's been 14 months now and it keeps getting better.
At 2 months it was OK, but cloudy enough that we thought
we should have used gypsum.  It was also VERY sweet, but
also very hoppy and quite smooth.
By 9 months it was clear, but quite heavy and we thought 
maybe less sugar.
Last week it had gotten considerably drier and VERY clear.
It's really good now, so I don't know if it'll last long
enough for me to give you an update later.

Good luck,
Ann

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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 92 08:59:09 EST
From: anelliga at hamlet.Prime.COM (A Nelligan)
Subject: sanitazation


Hi Volker--
I'm new to the digest too, so if this has been disucssed I missed
it just as you did.  So I'll dive right in.

I use B-Brite to sanitize my bottles.  I mix it up by the gallon
and use and re-use and re-use it.  All that siphoning back
into the storage bottles is a handy way to sanitize hoses.
So far I haven't had any problems.

I also use tap water to rinse.  I live in greater Boston
and have Quabbin Reservoir water-I have no idea of the 
bacterial content of the water but I've had no problems with
that either.  

Ann

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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 92 16:52:15 EST
From: Brett Shorten <s05bas at wampyr.cc.uow.edu.au>
Subject: banana esters

I noted with interest the brief recent thread on banana aromas
during fermentation, as I recently experienced the same thing
with a batch of brown ale (extract) fermented with Wyeast
1098 London ale yeast. It seems as though high fermentation
temperatures (75-80f) were probably the cause in this case.
What the recent thread did not seem to indicate, however,
is what effect this is likely to have on the taste of my
ale. I am not even sure whether it is likely to be positive
or negative. Could someone enlighten me on this point, please?

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Date:         Thu, 06 Feb 92 00:56:49 EST
From: Jean Hunter <MS3Y at CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:      NA Beer - the Schmidling Method

Jack and I have been corresponding off-net about NA beer; he now has my
mailing address but has suggested that I repeat his experiment with a 1-gal
batch and analyze my own samples rather than analyzing his samples.  On the
digest, on the subject of my lab analyzing his samples, he writes:
>  However, upon further consideration, it seems not only a waste of energy
>  but hardly in the true "scientific tradition".  After all, what is to
>  prevent me from re-bottling a can each, of Old Style and Kingsbury?
Nothing, Jack, except that in a scientific collaboration like the one I
proposed, one of the traditions is that I trust you and you trust me.  As a
professional researcher and research mentor, I take scientific integrity
very seriously, and I can't <g> or RDW when the joke is about the possibility
of anybody's research fraud taking place in my lab.
   Now if Jack doesn't trust the HPLC, that is perfectly understandable, and
we should definitely run the Old Style and Kingsbury's as experimental
controls along with some Schmidling Method NA Beer.
  Thanks also to other HBD'ers for helpful comments via e-mail.  Cheers - Jean

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #818, 02/06/92