FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Re: Help no brewery (Desmond Mottram)
  krausening (Aaron Birenboim)
  Baltimore micros (radavfs)
  Brewing At Room Temperature (Jon Binkley)
  Re: Nutritional Value of Homebrew (Brian Capouch)
  natural CO2 vs forced (donald oconnor)
  WYEAST package breakage/recipes (Glenn A. Tremblay DTN 297-7168)
  Re: Help!! I'm trapped in a non-brewery!  (David Van Iderstine)
  mashing in a microwave? (Tom Haley)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #825 (February 17, 1992) (Richard Childers)
  Nutrition,
  non-brewery  (Eric Mintz)
  Re: First-Timer (korz)
  Wissenschaftliche #338 (korz)
  Wyeast Monopoly (Jay Hersh)
  Storing Yeast (Jay Hersh)
  Beer gone bad? (N E N Strangelove)
  Keg relief valve leaking (Jim Griggers)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Feb 92 9:35:47 GMT
From: des at pandora.swindon.ingr.com (Desmond Mottram)
Subject: Re: Help no brewery

Eric writes:

> Subject: Help!! I'm trapped in a non-brewery! 
> 
> Dear fellow brewers,
> 
> It's finally happened: I had to move and my new house doesn't have a
> basement or any other room that is cooler than 65F.  I live in Colorado
> so brewing outside is out of the question (Brrr!).  Should I just go for
> a warmer fermentation temp or does anyone out there have a more clever
> solution to my dilema?  Please respond quickly -- I only have 1/2 case
> of homebrew left!!

The answer is simple: brew Britsh beers. 65F is just about spot on for the 
top fermenting yeasts used for these. I know of two books which between 
them contain recipies for about 200 different British beers, including 
medieval ales from before the days of hops. Don't regard this as a disaster: 
a whole new world of beer has just opened up for you!

Rgds, Desmond Mottram
d_mottram at swindon.ingr.com

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 92 08:40:29 MST
From: abirenbo at rigel.hac.com (Aaron Birenboim)
Subject: krausening


  I worry about Papazians formula for krauesening.  It uses O.G.,
but i think that the change in S.G. would be more
appropriate.  Somebody once posted this formula to krausen a 
5 gallon batch :

                      change_in_SG * (quarts_of_gyle)
              3.2  = -----------------------------------
                      20 + quarts_of_gyle

  which simplifies to :

                                64
         quarts_of_gyle = ---------------------
                           change_in_SG - 3.2


  I do not have papazians formula with me, but i do know it
gave a MUCH smaller answer.  BTW... i am assuming that
change_in_SG is acuually change_in_SG * 1000.  like for my
current brew, i expect to go from 1.063 to about 1.013,
hence quarts_of_gyle = 1.37 qts.  i think papazians number
came out to be less than 1.  

         Does the above formula seem OK?

                aaron

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1992 10:12:58 EST
From: radavfs at ube.ub.umd.edu
Subject: Baltimore micros

Hello - there are two micros in Baltimore City, both of which produce a pretty 
decent brew.
A) Baltimore Brewing Company - just a short walk from the Inner Harbor, this
joint serves it's own (Pilsner, Dark,, Amber and one monthly "specialty")
along with some good, medium-priced, pub-food-'n'-burgers type fare.  It's
located at 104 Albemarle street, between Pratt and Lombard.

B)Sisson's - the site of the local homebrew club's meetings (none of which I 
have attended yet).  Sisson's has pretty good deals ($6.50/pitcher) and some
fare similar to BBC's, but it also features a posh Cajun restaurant as an 
adjunct.  The food is good as is the beer.  One of the only micros I know
that serves beers fro around the world in addition to its own!  Can be
very crowded.  Address: 36 E Cross St, right across the street from the
Cross St Market, between Light and Charles.

Hope this helps!  Best  Volker Stewart  Langsdale Libr., U. of Balto.,
			RADAVFS at UBE.UB.UMD.EDU

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 92 09:45:18 -0700
From: Jon Binkley <binkley at beagle.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: Brewing At Room Temperature


In HBD #825, Eric Mintz <ericm at bach.ftcollinsco.NCR.COM> wrote:

>It's finally happened: I had to move and my new house doesn't have a
>basement or any other room that is cooler than 65F.  I live in Colorado
>so brewing outside is out of the question (Brrr!).  Should I just go for
>a warmer fermentation temp or does anyone out there have a more clever
>solution to my dilema?  Please respond quickly -- I only have 1/2 case
>of homebrew left!!

I brewed in my apartment in Boulder from January to May of
last year, and didn't have any problems until May.  During
winter and early spring the temp. stayed between 60 and 70
degrees, fine for most ales.  Some of the lighter ales had
a mild diacetyl taste, probably due to the warmer temperatures,
but I like that.

When May rolled around it became impossible to keep the temp
below 70 without paying exorbitant air conditioning bills.
The beers began tasting a little too funky even for me, and
we moved the brewery to my friend's basement in Denver, where
the temp never got above 70 all summer (eat your hearts out,
flat-landers!).

So, my advice is to go for it, but line up a good basement
or spare refrigerator for this summer.
 
Jon Binkley
binkley at boulder.colorado.edu


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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 92 11:10:47 -0600 (CST)
From: Brian Capouch <brianc at zeta.saintjoe.EDU>
Subject: Re: Nutritional Value of Homebrew

Excerpts from homebrew: 17-Feb-92 Homebrew Digest #825 (Febru.. Verify
a. b. sending at hpf (43221)

> So, my question is: how nutritious can a homebrew be?  or a good stout
> for that matter?  how would one go about making a "healthy" beer?

I'm no nutritionist, but I've been reading Steinkraus' "Handbook of
Indigenous Fermented Foods" pretty assiduously.  From what I can gather,
the most nutritious "beers" of the third world are those in which the
*entire mash* is fermented out.  The resulting product would resemble
alcoholic oatmeal more than what we have come to call beer.  There does,
indeed, seem to be ample evidence that the nutritional quality of the
grains fermented in this way does actually increase.  

I think it would be iffy to do barley beers this way, since the
percentage of husks in the mash would be more than a bit unpalatable. 
Using wheat malt, or perhaps better, maize malt, would result in a gruel
of greater "organoleptic" quality. 

I'm hoping to do some "thick" beers here in a few weeks, using
techniques similar to those reported in this book.  If anyone's
interested, I'll be glad to keep you posted.

Brian Capouch
Saint Joseph's College for Children
brianc at saintjoe.edu


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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 92 11:17:24 -0600
From: oconnor at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (donald oconnor)
Subject: natural CO2 vs forced

jim busch contends that the source of CO2 determines the size of the bubbles
formed in the beer.  i will emphasize again that the co2 molecules do not
float around with little signs saying "i came from a sugar" or "i came from
a 5 gallon gas tank".  The head formation and retention are effected by a 
number of factors in beer but one of them is not the source of c02.  the 
size of the co2 bubbles depends on a number of factors but one of them is not
the source of the gas.  if you would like to know more about what determines
bubble size and such, i would recommend an article that appeared in 
Physics Today about 4-5 months ago by a Stanford chemist and one of his 
post-docs.  

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 92 10:18:43 PST
From: Glenn A. Tremblay DTN 297-7168 <tremblay at vino.enet.dec.com>
Subject: WYEAST package breakage/recipes

Hi!
	I'm new to this this conference...so hello. I am just getting
into homebrewing. I bought a pre-package ingredients kit at my local
supplier. It contained a package of WYEAST Danish Lager yeast. I followed
the directions, that is, broke the inner bag with the palm of my hand and
place it for one day in a warm place. The inner contain broke without any
trouble, I kneaded it gently and kept it at about 72 degrees F over night.
The next morning (about 18 hours later) I found the package had broken
at the seam and the mixture was leaking from the package. Is this the failure
scenario people have been talking about? Or did I do something wrong (which
there really isn't must to screw up here!). I will request a replacement,
but was curious if I happen to just get an older package or if this type
of thing should be expected on occaision? Thanx for any input.

Also, I'd be interested in any "online" recipes that anyone would be
kind enough to forward me directly...or any other useful information 
to assist me in the wonderful new hobby. 

Thanx all,

/Glenn Tremblay

tremblay at vino.enet.dec.com

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 92 13:19:53 EST
From: orgasm!davevi at uunet.UU.NET (David Van Iderstine)
Subject: Re: Help!! I'm trapped in a non-brewery! 

In HBD #825, Eric Mintz writes:

|> It's finally happened: I had to move and my new house doesn't have a
|> basement or any other room that is cooler than 65F.  I live in Colorado
|> so brewing outside is out of the question (Brrr!).  Should I just go for
|> a warmer fermentation temp or does anyone out there have a more clever
|> solution to my dilema?  Please respond quickly -- I only have 1/2 case
|> of homebrew left!!


Geez, Eric, relax (don't worry, etc.). I've been brewing at "room" temperature
(69->71 deg. F) for 2 years now, and everything is fine! Granted, I'm not making
lagers, strictly ales, but they taste great. I do keep the carboys covered with
a T shirt or two to keep light off them, and also keep them away from the heat
registers, but that's the extent of my caution.

If you REALLY want the lower fermentation temp, why not buy a used refrigerator
and crank it up as high as it wll go?


===========================================================================
== Dave Van Iderstine                           Senior Software Engineer ==
==                   Xerox Imaging Systems, Inc.                         ==
== UUCP: uunet!pharlap!orgasm!davevi        davevi at pharlap.com :INTERNET ==
==-----------------------------------------------------------------------==
== "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate." ==
===========================================================================

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Date: 17 Feb 92 09:15:00 PST
From: Tom Haley <tah at ccgate.SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM>
Subject: mashing in a microwave?


A question for the grain mashers.

Mashing involves raising the grain and water to a certain temp. and letting
it sit there for a specified lenght of time.  Some technics call for this to
be done in stages. ie one temp for an hour then raise it to the next temp
etc.  

My question is can this be done in the microwave oven?  My micro is programable
to allow this staged approach using the built in timer and probe.  Anyone
have any experience with this?  Comments?

Post or reply and I will summarize.

Thanks

tom
Tom.Haley at SanDiegoCA.NCR.com


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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 92 11:17:51 PST
From: Richard Childers <rchilder at us.oracle.com>
Subject: Re:  Homebrew Digest #825 (February 17, 1992)


"Date: Fri, 14 Feb 92 12:35:59 -0800
 From: ktk at nas.nasa.gov (Katy T. Kislitzin)
 Subject: Nutritional Value of Homebrew

"I was reading a recent (jan or feb) issue of nat'l geo over the
 weekend.  The main topic for that issue was "Alchohol -- the legal
 drug".  It contained some speculation that beer was one of the
 earliest fermented beverages, and may have been the first reason
 people had to cultivate grain.  the article went on to claim that it
 is likely that "primitive" beer was highly nutrious, in fact, in all
 likelyhood brewing barley made more of the nutrients in it available
 than baking bread with it.  They implied this for all grains, but
 barley was mentioned by name.  The article then says that given today's
 very light brews, modern beer has virtually no nutritive value.

"So, my question is: how nutritious can a homebrew be?  or a good stout
 for that matter?  how would one go about making a "healthy" beer?
 given the emphasis that current nutritionists put on grain
 consumption, and given the comments of nat'l geo, it seems that one
 could concoct a brew that would be a very enjoyable way of "having
 one's daily bread" as it were ;-)"

I've thought about that, also. One of my brothers has pointed out to me that
the malt I put into proto-beer is identical to that added to 'malted' milks,
and suggests that the complex of sugars and proteins are very good for you.

Of course, the yeastie-beasties eat a lot of it up, but I'd guess that a
fair amount remains.

This would also explain how some of my barfly friends remain alive despite
never appearing to eat much of anything ...	(-:

"Least my question be interpreted as anti-bread, let me state for the
 record that i enjoy baking and eating bread at least as much as
 brewing and drinking beer!"

I've been experimenting with making pizza, myself ... and thanks for the
beer bread recipe, Jack ...

An interesting variation on a recipe has occurred to me recently. I was in
Chinatown recently, contemplating ginger root and wondering what it would
do to my beer ... or ginseng, for that matter.

Yesterday, I was in a health food store in Santa Cruz, pondering a wide array
of herbs, and wondering what orange peel might do to a brew.

I tell you, the possibilities are infinite ...

- -- richard

=====
- -- richard childers		rchilder at us.oracle.com		1 415 506 2411
	oracle data center  --  unix systems & network administration
"Anything is possible, if you don't care who gets the credit." -- Harry Truman

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 92 15:46 CST
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)


To: ------------------------------, -0800, .........., 12:35:59, 14, 2, 263,
    3911, 55009, 7th, 918, 92, >, >Least, >So, Although, Alzheimer's, Aside,
    BEER, BREAD, Bob, Breis, Cannon, Considering, DIRECTLY, Date:, Digest,
    Falls, Feb, Fm:, For, Fri, From:, Homebrew, I, If, It, Jack, Jensen,
    MM...., MN, Malting, Malting., Minnesota, N, Nutritional, One, RECIPE,
    Reinheightsgbot, Roll, Schmidling, Several, St, Subject:, The, They, This,
    To:, Value, a, about, about., all, aluminum, an, and, anti-bread, anyone,
    anything, anywhere, as, aspects, avoid, avoided, baking, bandaided, bars,
    be, be?, been, beer, beer!, beer?, before, boil, bread, bread at least,
    brewing, but, buy, by, can, chlorine, circle., companies, compleated,
    contact, crystal, cured, detail....., diameter, dough, drinking, eating,
    else, enjoy, even, except, factor., feel, few, fired, first, food, for,
    free, from, gets, glossed, go, good, grain, grown, has, have, healthy,
    homebrew, homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, homemade, hour, how, i, if, important,
    in, indirectly, industry, information, interested, interpreted, into, is,
    is:, issue, it, jury, just, kilning., kilns, ktk at nas.nasa.gov, largest,
    leave, left, length, let, like, made, making, malt, malt., matter?, me,
    mine, most, much, my, near, next, nitrosamine, nitrosamines., nothing,
    nutritionists., nutritious, of, on, one, only, or, organic, organically,
    others., otherwise, out, over, phone, plague., process., produce, produced,
    producers, provide, question, record, remove, seem, should, some, spent,
    squeeze, state, step, stick, still, stout, such, talk, that, the, them.,
    there, thing, things, this, those, to, took, totally, unhealthy, use, use.,
    uses, using, water, will, with, wonderful, would, you, your
Subject: Nutrition,

 > sheets or form loaves for bread pans.
 
           LET RISE AGAIN FOR ABOUT AN HOUR IN WARM PLACE
 
  >Bake at 375 F for 25 min.
 
 js
 

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 92 15:48:49 MST
From: Eric Mintz <ericm at bach.ftcollinsco.NCR.COM>
Subject: non-brewery 

I received some vary good ideas in response to my recent plea for help.
I had asked what to do about brewing in a house where there was no
basement or other cool room.  For those of you with similar problems,
here are the responses:

1) Place your fermenter in a shallow pan whose diameter is greater than
   that of the fermenter.  Fill the pan with water.  Drape some cloth
   (e.g.  a t-shirt) over and around your fermenter so that the cloth
   comes in contact with the water in the shallow pan.  The water wicks
   up from the pan into the cloth.  The water evaporates from the cloth
   and cools the fermenter.  You can cool the fermenter even more by
   blowing air past the system with a fan.
2) Get a freezer that no longer works (to save money).  Buy a Hunter
   airstat for about $25.00 to cool the freezer.  The Hunter airstat can
   maintain temperatures in the required range (e.g. 60F).

The moral?  When it comes to brewing, you have to be cool.

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 92 17:36 CST
From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
Subject: Re: First-Timer

John writes:
>     For example, is it possible to kill your wort by burning it before
>it boils?  Initially, my wort showed little activity, then only a
>weak boil.  Shortly after, I stirred it.  Then all hell broke loose,
>over the pot, and onto the stove.  Is this bad for the wort?

Only if you try to scrape the burnt wort off the stove and put it back
into the kettle.

>     Secondly, after painstakingly following the directions for
>sanitizing the utensils, fermentation chambers, etc., I'm worried that
>if I muck around in it AT ALL, I'll ruin it.  So is it possible to get
>TOO caught up in cleanliness in the search for godliness??

I'm not clear on what you mean by "muck around in it AT ALL."  Sanitation
is the most important factor in making good beer.  (Avoiding excessive
amounts of cane or corn sugar is #2 and good yeast is #3.)  You should
sanitize everything that will come in contact with your wort, preferably,
just before you use it, so it doesn't get contaminated by airborne bacteria
or wild yeast or pick up the same by contact with unsanitized surfaces
in your brewing area.  Once you get a routine down, sanitation will not
be such a big pain anymore -- but no less important.

>      Finally, just how much protection from the light do I need to
>worry about?  While I don't want a skunky ale, nor do I want to deprive
>the yeast of any light necessary for their healthy little lives.

Protect your wort/beer from all light, if you can, especially fluorescent
and daylight.  Yeast don't need any light at all, and you're right:
light struck beer smells skunky.

> Right
>now I've got my primary fermenter sitting covered by a large box in the
>corner of my pantry.

Great.  Leave it under the box.

>As of this letter, I haven't see any signs of
>fermentation yet, but I suspect it's still too early.

Could be.  Depending on the yeast, the temperature, how much you aerated
your wort, if you used a starter or not, etc. etc., it can take anywhere
from 4 to 48 hours to see activity.  I may have recently killed a starter.
My basement is about 10 degrees colder than my kitchen.  I culture yeast
in my kitchen.  I recently made a 500ml starter from a package of Wyeast
#1028 (London Ale).  It was going well as I poured 100ml of that starter
into another 500ml of wort the morning I was going to brew.  In the
evening, that starter was going well.  While chilling the wort to pitching
temperature, I had the starter in the basement with me.  After a few minutes,
I glanced over and noticed that the airlock was going in the wrong direction.
The cooler temperature was contracting the starter and the air in the
starter bottle!  Not that it was a big deal or anything, I decided to put
the starter in the warmest place in the basement -- the heater room:
*on top of the heat plant* (DUH!) for 30 minutes.  Well I pitched the
yeast and had no activity for 36 hours.  It was still too early to worry,
so I leisurely poured 100ml more from the first starter into the primary.
8 hours later, fermentation was active -- after 8 more hours, blowoff
had begun.  There's no way of telling if the original 600ml starter took
48 hours to start or if the 100ml starter did.  In any event, the moral
of the story: don't let the temperature of the yeast change too dramatically
or get too high and don't worry.
Al.

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 92 18:04 CST
From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
Subject: Wissenschaftliche #338

Wyeast #1338 (European Ale), aka Wissenschaftliche #338, is a
German Altbier yeast.  I have not tried it, but according to Miller
it tends to produce a lot of 4-vinyl guaiacol which tends to taste
and smell like cloves.  Miller suggests using Wissenschaftliche #338
for a Muenchener Weizen.
Al.

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 92 19:50:06 EST
From: Jay Hersh <hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu>
Subject: Wyeast Monopoly


Hmmm MeV going out of business leaves Wyeast as sole suppklier,
but this isn't a classic monopoly, it's not like they used predatory
pricing or other agressive business tactics, just good service, good
quality, and a good product (though pricey). Too bad more American firms
don;'t have the Wyeast ethic.

On a related note a local homebrew shop owner has gotten hold of commercial
yeast culturing equipment and is considering doing limited production runs
I have been lucky enough to get some test batches and the quality so far
has been good. Perhaps if other local industrious types take up this approach
fresher, less expensive yeast can be had. This will of course cut into
Wyeast business, but that's capitalism...

 -JaH

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 92 20:13:26 EST
From: Jay Hersh <hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu>
Subject: Storing Yeast


Well here's a little sacrilege. I take slurry off the bottom of the primary,
put it up in bottles that previously held alcohol and have been sterilized with
vodka or ethanol. I then  cover these and pop them in the fridge.

When I want to brew I add 1-2 cups of the slurry to a pint or so of starter.
I have kept yeast this way i  a refrdigerator for over a yearand had
no problems restarting them. YMMV...

 -JaH

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1992 01:21:19 GMT
From: mstrange at alfred.ccs.carleton.ca (N E N Strangelove)
Subject: Beer gone bad?

To all on homebrew,

I need your assistance.  I'm a beginning brewer, with my first batch
in its second stage of fermentation.  Today, I noticed a thin scum on
the top, it isn't covering the whole top.  The beer has kept an
average temperature of 78 degrees, and other  than the scum seems
fine.  Should I worry at this point?  Is my beer ruined?  Can I do
*anything* to salvage it?

Awaiting your guidance...Thanks in advance,

N. Strangelove


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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 92 23:23:10 EST
From: ncrcae!brew at devine.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Jim Griggers)
Subject: Keg relief valve leaking

Has anyone experienced the problem of a leaking relief valve on a Firestone
soda keg?  If so, how did you fix it?  The valve has a removable assembly,
and the rubber seal has a surface that looks sort of like a raisin.  I hope
that the assembly can be found at some homebrew supply store.  One thing
I noticed is that there are many different types of relief valves.  I have
four Pepsi kegs, and have three different types of valves.

PS. I posted an article a while back about a homemade pH meter.  I got one
    request to post the plans.  I am not very good at ascii graphics, and
    I don't want to take up Digest space with it.  If anyone wants a
    schematic and circuit description, send me a Self Addressed Stamped
    Envelope.

     Jim Griggers                    * * * * * 
     brew at devine.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM   *     *
     408 Timber Ridge Dr.              *   *
     West Columbia, SC                * * *
     29169                           *   * 


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #826, 02/18/92