FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Weights & Measures (Jim Grady)
  Re: heat yield (electric stove) ("ROBERT W. HOSTETLER")
  questions (marc julian)
  Re: Dry Hopping Sanitation ("Roger Deschner")
  boiling on electric stove (krweiss)
  Re: Berliner Weisse tasting results (Brian Davis)
  Oregon Homebrew Competition and Festival (Ted Manahan)
  summary of previous thread on dry hopping and sanitation (Tony Babinec)
  S. cerevisiae (mvalent)
  Hop growing question (Carl West)
  Wort Chillers (Jack Hack)
  Artificial carbonation time chart (Keith Winter)
  Two Beers from One Mash (from Micah Millspaw) (Bob Jones)
  Dry hopping infections (Darren Evans-Young)
  Electric Stoves (Darren Evans-Young)
  Blowoff vs. trub removal (korz)
  160 British Beers (korz)
  Dryhopping sanitation (korz)
  boiling on an electric stove  (Eric Mintz)
  Who would have thought... (ingr!b11!mspe5!guy)
  Assorted Things (Eric Webster)
  Lemon beer, why not? (Chuck Coronella)
  Responses to reusing yeast (UNDERWOOD)
  Starch ferments ("Michael Westmore")


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Feb 92 6:57:27 EST
From: Jim Grady <jimg at hpwald.wal.hp.com>
Subject: Weights & Measures

Steven Boege asked about weight to volume conversions for some of his recipes.
I found the following on pages 221-222 of "The Cook's Companion" by Doris
McFerran Townsend.  Any brewing cooks may want to check the book out.
Anyway,

	Flour (all purpose):	1 lb.	= 4 cups
	      (cake):		1 lb.	= 4 + 3/4 cups
	Honey:			1 lb. 	= 1 + 1/3 cups
	Molasses:		12 oz.	= 1 + 1/2 cups
	Sugar(granulated):	1 lb.	= 2 cups
	     (brown):		1 lb.	= 2 + 1/2 packed cups
	     (superfine):	1 lb.	= 2 cups
	     (confectioners):	1 lb.	= 3 + 1/2 cups

My own experience is that the flour measurement is for SIFTED flour.
Flour settles a lot and 4 cups of unsifted flour will be much more than
1 pound.  I bought my kitchen scale so that I could weigh my flour 
(pre-brewing) and now it's great for malt & hops as well!
	
- --
Jim Grady		   |"Freedom of the press is limited to
Internet: jimg at wal.hp.com  | those who own one."
Phone: (617) 290-3409	   | 			A. J. Liebling

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Date: 20 Feb 92 07:55:00 CST
From: "ROBERT W. HOSTETLER" <8220rwh at INDINPLS.NAVY.MIL>
Subject: Re: heat yield (electric stove)


I've brought 5 gallons of water to boil on an electric stove to boil A LOT
of iced down shrimp before. Be very patient, however, it took about half an
hour go go from cold tap temperature to a rolling boil. Hmm, more of that 
shrimp would be a good way to break in my first batch...

Bob Hostetler				8220rwh at indy.navy.mil


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Date:         Thu, 20 Feb 92 08:52:37 EST
From: marc julian <CMSMARC at uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      questions


I have some basic questions for any who choose to answer me...

1.  My first batch of beer (pale ale) came out pretty good...  except it has
    a rather weak alcohol content - 2.5%  Is this normal..??  if this is weak
    ...why...??

2   This same batch of beer is inconsistent... I have a couple bottles that
    are just great... and then one with a strange aftertaste..
    I'm sure I just need to be more sanitary in the bottling process... but
    what does that mean...  how compulsive are you in your sanitization
    process..??  what lengths does/should one go to..

3   bottling seems like a giant pain in the ass.. with the beer kit I received
    a bottling wand was included...  I do not understand the advantage of
    this tool over a plain tube...  I didn't have time to play around with it
    because I was too busy bottling...  so what's the use of this thing..
    why is this orange cap on the end of the wand... ??  is it just for
    transferring beer from the fermenter to a secondary...??

4   use of hops... during boil... end of boil...  or both..  why...

5   stout...  I would like my next beer to be a stout...  I'd appreciate any
    stout algorithms from the homebrewing population...  I'm fairly new at all
    of this... so any/all information would be great..


lastly - thank you in advanced for any answers provided..  you can mail
responses directly to me or send them to the list if you feel so inclined


thank you...    Marc W. Julian    (email - CMSMARC at UGA)

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Date: 20 February 1992 09:37:03 CST
From: "Roger Deschner" <U52983 at UICVM.UIC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dry Hopping Sanitation

Hops have been used for centuries as a disinfectant. This is one reason
they were originally used in beer. RELAX -- this is truly one less thing
to worry about.

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1992 09:08:27 -0800
From: krweiss at ucdavis.edu
Subject: boiling on electric stove

Steve Boege asks about getting big pots to boil on an electric stove.

A looong time ago I recall someone (was it the sorely missed Pete Soper?)
reporting great results by wrapping the pot in a 1/4 - 1/2" blanket of
newspaper. The insulation reduced heat loss through the sides of the pot
and enabled a relatively low-BTU stove to boil a big pot vigorously.

- -------------------------------------------
Ken Weiss               krweiss at ucdavis.edu
Computing Services      916/752-5554
U.C. Davis              916/752-9154 (fax)
Davis, CA 95616


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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 92 08:05:05 pst
From: Brian Davis <brian%mbf.uucp at ics.uci.edu>
Subject: Re: Berliner Weisse tasting results

In HBD 828, Aaron Birenboim said...

	>One other interesting part of the brewery was that they put
	>the hops in the MASH!  This allows them to use more wheat.

How does hopping the mash effect the amount of wheat which can be used?

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 92 10:30:23 pst
From: Ted Manahan <tedm at hpcvcbp.cv.hp.com>
Subject: Oregon Homebrew Competition and Festival
Full-Name: Ted Manahan

			       ANNOUNCING
			    THE TENTH ANNUAL
		OREGON HOMEBREW COMPETITION AND FESTIVAL

On Saturday, May 2, 1992.

The Heart of the Valley Homebrewers ("HVH") invites you to participate
in their TENTH annual homebrew competition and festival, the
longest-running event of its kind in Oregon. The focus of the event will
be a judging of homebrewed beer sanctioned by the Home Wine and Beer
Trade Association (HWBTA). In addition, the Club will host a festival to
promote awareness and knowledge of various beer styles, provide
opportunities to share information about the homebrewing craft, and
encourage interaction of homebrewers in a social atmosphere.

Entries will be received for judging in the nine following categories:

1) Light Lager (includes American and Continental styles)
2) Dark Lager (includes bock)
3) Stout
4) Porter
5) Light Ale (includes Golden)
6) Pale Ale (includes IPA)
7) Dark Ale (includes Brown Ale)
8) Specialty (includes wheat, fruit/herb beers, steam beer)
9) Strong Beer (includes dopplebocks, barleywines, and imperial stouts)

		ENTRY REQUIREMENTS FOR THE COMPETITION:

Please contact Ted Manahan (tedm at hp-pcd.cv.hp.com) for further
information. I will send you email with full entry requirements.

Ted Manahan
tedm at hp-pcd.cv.hp.com
503/750-2856
503/926-6228

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 92 13:31:00 CST
From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec)
Subject: summary of previous thread on dry hopping and sanitation

There was a thread on dry-hopping and sanitizing hops last fall.
Short of looking it all up again, I'll attempt to summarize.

You can:

 - late hop during the boil, say in the last 1-2 minutes before end of
boil.

 - hop right after boil, say steep the hops for 20 minutes before
chilling.

 - hop right after the boil in the manner of some big brewers, namely,
put some hops in a "hop back" and strain the beer through the hops on
the way to the wort chiller.

 - steam cook or pressure cook the hops before adding them to
secondary.  I recall George Fix describing this in some detail.  If I
remember, double the amount of hops you would otherwise use and steam
cook them (as you would some vegetables) for 15 (?) minutes before
adding to the secondary.  (I apologize for not looking up the
original, but that's too much like work right now!).

 - just throw the hops in.

There is no question that hops have some bacterial content.  The
arguments for just throwing the hops in are:

 - if the yeast took off in the beer, and subsequent handling of the
beer is done quietly, the beer is essentially anaerobic.

 - the beer is low ph.

 - the beer has some alcohol in it.

 - the hops themselves have a "preservative" (infection-inhibiting)
property (due to humulone content?).

The above points do not make for a sure thing, but are simply points
in favor of everything working out all right!  Relax, don't worry...

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Date: Thu Feb 20 10:10:11 PST 1992
From: mvalent at calstatela.edu
Subject: S. cerevisiae

First of all, please forgive my inability to refer you back the recent 
postings to which I am about to refer.  The other day, someone was asking 
about Saccharomyces cerevisiae.  Speaking as a grad student in Microbiology, 
S. cerevisiae is the genus species classification of the yeast.  Nearly all of
the yeast used for fermentation is this species.  When you use a "different" 
yeast for your beer, it's a differnt strain of S. cerevisiae and not a 
different species of yeast.  Of course other species of yeast are used for 
fermentation as are some species of bacteria, but the majority of alcohol 
production is due to our little yeasty friend.  By the way, as far as I can 
tell, Saccharomyces cerevisiae means sugar eating beer fungus.
        Now, on an entirely different note...  Somebody else was wondering if 
one could boil 5 gallons of water in a 6 gallon pot on an electric stove.  My 
answer is "yes."  My friend and I do.  It does take quite a long time, though.
 That's OK... We drink while we wait.



                                        New Mike

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 92 15:56:32 EST
From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West)
Subject: Hop growing question

What causes a hop plant to set blossoms?
is it:
the length of the vine?
the height of the plant?
the time of the year?
the length of the day?
the change of temperature?
the phase of the moon?
the Dow?

Nothing I've read addresses this question.

The reason it's a question to me is this: 
I've been growing cuttings from my hop plants through the winter in hopes 
of getting a head start in the spring. I'm wondering if I might manage to 
get a small, early harvest before planting time if I treat my plants right.

Carl

WISL,BM.



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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1992 12:19 PST
From: Jack Hack <JRHINE at HMCVAX.CLAREMONT.EDU>
Subject: Wort Chillers

Could someone explain the operation of a wort chiller?  I'm getting ready to
get into homebrewing, but I'm still waiting for my books to arrive.  At this
point, everything I know has come off r.c.b, HBD and mthvax.  A wort chiller
seems to be a device to chill wort (duh).  Any other operation involved?  I
have a tube run through a bucket of ice that I use for a still; would that
chill the wort satisfactorially?  Why (or is) wort chilling desirable?  Should
the wort be filtered or something before being chilled?

Thanks in advance for any possible responses I might get.

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 92 12:58:34 PST
From: winter at cirrus.com (Keith Winter)
Subject: Artificial carbonation time chart

Some time ago, there was a discussion about artificial carbonation and it
was mentioned that there is a chart somewhere, or was going to be posted, 
showing time vs. pressure to attain proper carbonation.  I don't remember 
where this was file was or, if posted, I missed it.  I'd appreciate it if
someone could point me in the right direction.  Hopefully, it is not only
available somewhere via ftp 'cause I don't have any ftp ability :-(.

Thanks for any help.

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Keith Winter  at  Cirrus Logic, Inc.  (winter at cirrus.com)

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1992 13:08 PDT
From: Bob Jones <BJONES at NOVA.llnl.gov>
Subject: Two Beers from One Mash (from Micah Millspaw)


        This winter I've been brewing some high gravity beers using
the first runnings from the mash only. In the past I did a mash and
then built up the gravity with dry malt extract, but this is very
expensive (and I'm cheap ). What had made me balk at this first
running only method is the waste of grain. So I began making low
gravity beers from the second runnings, low grav beer can also be low
alcohol beer.
        This is what I do. After collecting the first run wort I
restrike the mash. Before I restrike though I add in a pound or so of
specialty grain, I have even added in a couple lbs of corn starch to
make a cream ale. This Monday I brewed a Scotch ale (wee heavy) and
got a stout for the second run with a lb of roast barley added. The
first beer was 1100 OG and the second 1040 OG. Although this makes for
two boils in one day you only have to do one mash. So anyone out there
doing barleywines or dopplebocks give this a try. Use different yeasts
for more variety.
                                       Micah Millspaw   2/20/92




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Date:         Thu, 20 Feb 92 17:37:06 CST
From: Darren Evans-Young <DARREN at UA1VM.UA.EDU>
Subject:      Dry hopping infections

Those of you concerned with infections due to dry hopping should read
an article submitted by George Fix in Homebrew Digest #733. I've got
two batches being dry hopped right now and I'm relaxing. :-)
I have yet to see brewers out there saying "I just dry hopped a batch
of beer and had to dump it due to an infection."  If it was THAT much
of a problem, I expect we would have been hearing about it.

Darren

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Date:         Thu, 20 Feb 92 17:44:02 CST
From: Darren Evans-Young <DARREN at UA1VM.UA.EDU>
Subject:      Electric Stoves

I use a 10 gallon SS pot to boil 5-6 gallons of wort on my electric stove.
I have an older model with the real wide heating coils.  It gives a good
rolling boil, especially when I keep the pot partially covered. Because
the pot is so big (diameter), heat dissipation on the stove surface is
a problem. I often smell burnt paint while I'm boiling.  I just wonder
how long my stove is going to last.  I'm usually relaxing and enjoying
homebrew instead of worrying about it.

Darren

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 92 17:48 CST
From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
Subject: Blowoff vs. trub removal

Mike writes:
>  I've heard rumors that a blowoff method
>negates the need for removing the trub, but I find it hard to believe and
>have not heard of anyone who has done a side by side comparison.

I think the rumor was the other way around: that removing the trub negates
the need for blowoff.  I'm not sure how the two are related.  I faintly
remember something about the yeast using the trub for nourishment if there
isn't enough oxygen in the wort, but I'd like to read *a lot* more about
this before I'm convinced either way.  Biologists, Zymurgists:  Please
comment.

> All I know
>is that after I started doing this, my beer has improved immensly (the
>improvement was better than going to all grain, or switching to liquid
>yeast).  I will go as far as to say that if you do not use blowoff and
>do not make an effort to get rid of a significant quantity trub BEFORE you
>pitch the yeast, you will almost certainly have a fusel alcohol problem.

I'm not going to flame, rather I'd like to learn more about this.  Why do
you propose this correlation?  Do you have a reference?

>  I've never used a blowoff method, so I can't make any
>rational comments on it (though I do find it fascinating that people claim
>that their beer is less harsh using blowoff.  I don't buy the hop resin
>argument, so maybe it does have something to do with trub...). 

I don't see why you should be amazed.  I used to be a die-hard supporter
of the blowoff method, because the smell of the blowoff was so horrid
that I figured there was no way I wanted that gunk in my beer.  Recently,
with the resurgence of this topic (probably it's 10th time around since
1988) I decided to be reasonable and re-evaluate my position.  I've since
been brewing oversized batches and doing side-by-side brewing blowoff/non-
blowoff.  The jury is still out -- the beers are either still fermenting or
still carbonating.  I did, however, take a sniff of a recent blowoff jug
and the smell was not unlike normal beer.  That led me to re-think what
other changes have I made in my technique since those days of bile in the
blowoff jug.  The changes were:

1. Wyeast in stead of dry yeasts			maybe
2. 65F ferments in stead of 70F				doubtful
3. full boils (6gal) in stead of partial (2gal)		doubtful
4. immersion chiller (leaving SOME trub behind)		maybe

Well, 1 and 4 could be the big difference.  Note, I say SOME trub
because I have been experiencing the same phenomenon as Jeorg -- I
leave behind what little trub there is in the kettle after chilling,
but a lot more appears shortly thereafter in the fermentor.  I'll
try waiting an hour or so after chilling and see how much trub remains.

What we need is some science to solve this problem!  Side-by-side
tests: 1. trub/noblowoff, 2. notrub/noblowoff, 3. notrub/blowoff,
and 4. trub/blowoff.  The resulting beers should be chemically analyzed
for higher alcohols and anything else that might be produced.  The
only snag is the cost -- I've already spoken with J.E.Siebels & Sons --
these tests cost BIG BUCKS.  Another sad story of science vs. funding.

Al.

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 92 18:03 CST
From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
Subject: 160 British Beers

Des--
Although I don't own Line or Harrison, I've read that Line's recipes
include many ingredients that we here in the states have great difficulty
in purchasing, for example Golden Syrup, Demerara Sugar and Invert Sugar.
Line's book *is* available in the states.  There are ways around the shortage
of certain ingredients, but they take some experimentation (how much Blackstrap
Molasses should be substituted for the Demerara?, etc.)  I just wanted to 
warn newcomers, that it's not as easy as it sounds.  There is another
wrinkle in Line's books: he used very attenuative yeast, therefore, his
sweet recipes call for saccharine tablets, for example.  Another variable
to work out.  I plan to buy Line's book, but based upon what I've read
over the years in the HBD, I think that a U.S. "translation" would be a
big improvement -- a noble undertaking, indeed!
Al.

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 92 18:20 CST
From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
Subject: Dryhopping sanitation

JC writes:
>When dry hopping, or pouring the wort over beer after chilling, what is the
>best way to sanitize the hops to reduce infections?

The easiest method of hop sanitation is what I do:   NOTHING.
I have not been sanitizing my hops for dryhopping and my beers
have not developed any infections.  I add the whole hops immediately
after the krauesen falls, but the beer is still fermenting actively.
The active yeast, the low pH and the alcohol all add up to an
uninviting environment for infectious beasties.  I think the only
thing you need to worry about might be mold if the hops were dried
improperly.  I've also used pellets, but prefer whole hops because
they float right up to bottling/kegging time -- the pellets eventually
sank and were covered over by pooped-out yeast -- the final effect (the
*WONDERFUL* bouquet) was diminished.
Al.

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 92 17:48:03 MST
From: Eric Mintz <ericm at bach.ftcollinsco.NCR.COM>
Subject: boiling on an electric stove 

You betcha -- *privided* your brewkettle is wide enough to fit over 2
burners.  Even so, It may take as long as 20 minutes for the boil to
start.  On the bright side, because of the slow heating, you are less
likely to have a boil over :-)

- --Eric

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 92 15:40:34 CST
From: ingr!ingr!b11!mspe5!guy at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Who would have thought...

    Indeed, miracles never cease.  This article appeared in this morning's
edition (02-20-92) of the Birmingham Post Herald (reprinted without permission).
It was written by Post Herald reporter Nancy Bereckis:


Roll out the barrel, local brewery's coming back

    Local beer lovers' saddest hour occurred in 1907 when city politicians
made alcohol illegal and forced the Birmingham Brewing Company to pour 300
barrels of beer into the street.
    In the 85 years since, the ban on alcohol was lifted and beer lovers could
have their fill of Budweiser, Miller, and Strohs.
    But if they wanted some home-brew like the Birmingham Brewing Co. produced,
they had to go to Pensacola Fla., where a small brewery is located, or New
Orleans where Abita beer is brewed.
    Until now.
    Lee Nicholson, Birmingham native, musician, and brewmaster, is ready to
usher in a new era of happy hours for beer lovers by reviving the Birmingham
Brewing Co.
   "Beer is always best when it's brewed in your backyard.  And when you've
got one of the best water supplies in the US, like Birmingham has, it should
be outstanding," Nicholson, 43, said yesterday from the office of his attorney,
who is helping him get the brewery off the ground.
    So far, Nicholson, attorney Ben Hogan, and a slew of investors have 
purchased the building where the brewery will be located at 3118 Third Ave.
South.  They've gotten the blessings of the city of Birmingham.  And they
plan to receive the vats and brewery equipment in April.
    Hopefully, Nicholson said, the first bottle of Red Mountain Beer will
debut at the City Stages music festival, which runs from June 19 to June 21.
    Nicholson hopes to distribute Red Mountain at local grocery stores,
restaurants, and bars.  At first, he will brew a red beer, which is like
an ale, and a lighter lager.  The beer will cost slightly more than domestic
varieties and less than imported brews.
    Nicholson, an accordian and banjo musician who recently played in the 
Birmingham-Southern College production of "The Grapes of Wrath" first started
brewing beer about 10 years ago as a hobby.  He operated a store in Homewood
for a while, where he sold brewing equipment.  And in recent years, he opened
a brewery and restaurant in Tampa, Fla.
    When Nicholson opens in Birmingham, he will become part of a new industry
of local beer compaines, called microbreweries.  In the past five years, the 
microbrewery business has grown from around five, which were located in CA, 
to more than 200 nationwide.  Some of the most successful microbreweries are 
the Abita brewery in New Orleans and the Redhook Ale brewery in Seattle. 
    Nicholson is friends with the Abita brewers and will call on them and
other local brewmasters for help.
    "This is the right time to do something like this in Birmingham because
people are starting to realize that beer can be as complex as wine," Nicholson
said.
    To Nicholson, all American domestic beers taste the same because each is 
brewed the same way.  All large breweries make their beer quickly, in large
quantities and often use corn and rice to supplement the traditional barley,
hops, yeast, and water.
    Nicholson will only use the traditional ingredients as well as Birmingham's
pure water to make his beer that will taste like...well, he's not sure.
    "It won't tase like the beer I make on a small scale and since there 
hasn't been a brewery here since 1907, I really don't know exactly what
it will taste like," he said.

- --
Guy McConnell, getting ready for a first-hand sample


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Date: 20 Feb 92 12:51:40 EST
From: Eric Webster <72240.2510 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Assorted Things

Re: Will an electric stove heat 5 gals of wort?

Being cheap, I use two large chili pots (3-4 gals each) to heat my wort,
one on each large burner of my electric stove. I then siphon them both
into the carboy. This works well, and also allows fun hop recipes - you
can mix hop times and varieties by using, say, 1.5 oz Perle (a very
underrated hop, IMHO) in one pot for 60 mins, and 1.5 oz Hallertau for 60
min in the other pot, and then mix. There's enough voodo in me to believe
that that produces different results than dumping them both in one large
pot.

Re: brewpubs

Went to a new Chicagoland brewpub yesterday - Millrose Brewery (really
brewpub) at the intersection of I-90 and Barrington Road north. Excellent
beer; Goose Island fronted them some beer till their pipeline is full. The
northern star (brown ale) is superb. E-mail me for detailed directions.

Query: growing hops

It's about that time - I'm planting hops in every friend's back yard who
has a fence next month. Any reco's on varieties that will work in Chicago?
I grew some Cascades last year, and BOY, were they flowery. Almost too
much so. Yikes! Also, anyone know where one can get alpha analysis on a
homebrewer's budget?


Eric

"Damn it, Jim, I'm just a country doctor"


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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 92 21:21 MTS
From: Chuck Coronella <CORONELLRJDS at CHE.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Lemon beer, why not?

Greetings,

I took a trip down to Phoenix this past 3-day weekend, and was given a 
large box of home-grown lemons.  Hmmm.... lemon beer, anyone?

I've had some success making cherry beer; I've heard of many other fruit
beers; why not lemon?  Mexican beers are commonly served with a wedge of 
lemon or lime; why not add the lemons <before> the fermentation? 

Indeed, why not?

So, what do y'all say?  Has anyone tried this particular abberation?  I'd
be interested in any feedback at all; successful and unsuccessful recipes
and methods, hypotheses, comments, tell me I'm crazy, whatever.  If you'll
send comments directly to me, I'll post a summary if there's interest
and/or enough feedback. 

Thanks,
Chuck     coronellrjds at che.utah.edu

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 92 20:34:54 PST
From: UNDERWOOD at INTEL7.intel.com
Subject: Responses to reusing yeast


	Grettings, 

	Just wanted to say "Thanks" to all who responded to my question
	of reusing yeast.  After going through the responses, and comparing
	them to Papazian, it seems CP goes more into preparing the starter
	than where to get the yeast to put in it!        

	To summarize for those folks who have never reused their yeast:

	1.  Rack your wort into your secondary leaving the slurry behind.
	2.  Pour some boiled water into the primary to slosh around the
	    slurry.
	3   Pour this into a clean, sanitized, mason jar.  Cap and shake.
	4.  Let this settle for 10-30 minutes.  The mixture will separate
	    into layers.  The white milky layer is the yeast.  Spoon or
	    pour off the rest.
	5.  Add more water, cap, shake, settle, pour/spoon.
	6.  Do this until what you have left is mostly yeast.
	7.  Transfer this to another clean sanitized jar and store
	    for up to a month in your refer.

	    Of course, sanitation is important, flaming jar mouths, 
	    boiling your jars, lids, etc.

	    Thanks again, hope this may be of help to others.
	    Any errors are probably mine, if this isn't quite
	    right, please correct me as I haven't tried this yet!
				
				           Cu  

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 92 23:31:59 EST
From: "Michael Westmore" <mwestmor at irus.rri.uwo.ca>
Subject: Starch ferments

In the process of brewing sake, the yeast is not actually fermenting starch.
The starch is being converted by enzymes simultaneously with the fermentation
of sugars by the yeast. The key ingredient in making sake is koji (the mold
aspergillus oryzae) which produces enzymes that break down the starches in the
rice.

                                   Michael Westmore

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #829, 02/21/92