FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Electric stoves (dbreiden)
  Thanks, and a pump question ("DRCV06::GRAHAM")
  Re: boiling on electric stove (wegeng.henr801c)
  Invert sugar et al (Desmond Mottram)
  Summary of Responses re: Single v. TwoStage Methods, etc. (ZLPAJGN)
  Jasper's HB Supply, NH - minor address correction (donmoyer)
  Re: Lemon Beer (Bruce A Macwilliams)
  Alcohol, bottling, inconsistencies, etc... (RANDY OLINGER)
  starch ferments (Carl West)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #829 (February 21, 1992) (Kent Dinkel)
  Brewing in San Fran (hplabs!hp-pcd.cv.hp.com!lotus!"CRD!Chris_Fitch)
  Brewing in San Fran
  re rare ingredients in Line's recipes (Chip Hitchcock)
  Yeasty Ramblings (C.R. Saikley)
  Some answers (Jeff Frane)
  Where did I get my hops rhizomes? (Carl West)
  Outdoor cooker question (b11!mspe5!guy)
  BEER BREAD PUDDING, Roasted Grain (Jack Schmidling)
  file inquiry (richard barrett)
  Re: Blowoff vs. trub removal (Michael Charlton)
  Electric Stoves (John A. Palkovic)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #828 (February 20, 1992 ("walt)
  Results of Hazel-Nuts in Beer (Lee J. Slezak)


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[Please do not send me requests for back issues!]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Feb 92 07:09:15 -0500
From: dbreiden at mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Subject: Electric stoves

In response to one person's query about boiling 5 gal of wort on an
electric stove, we've seen lots of people saying "sure, I do it a lot..."
with applicable caveats.

Seems to me, the REAL question isn't electric vs. gas vs. butane vs.
open fire; the REAL question is how many BTUs does it take to bring 5 gal
of wort to a boil in less than an hour?

- --Danny

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Date: 21 Feb 92 07:56:00 EDT
From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <graham%drcv06.decnet at drcvax.af.mil>
Subject: Thanks, and a pump question

First off, thank you very much to all who sent me copies of number 825.  I 
did receive many, but that is much, mmuch better than not having it, so I 
sincerely appreciate all transmissions, regardless of duplication.

I'm still looking for a pump for beer.  A friend to whom I pass on this 
digest spotted something interesting at his workplace.  There is a bottle 
of generic bottled water, a 5 gallon plastic type, with a small, battery 
powered pump on top of it.  It doesn't have much info on it, just the 
English letters MK on to p, and the note that it delivers 5.5 gallons per 
minute.  There is also some Japanese writing.  Seems like this might be the 
perfect way to get beer out of the carboy if it didn't oxidize things too 
much.  Does anyone know what on earth this is?  Is MK a brand name?  
Beer-sodden minds want to know...

Dan



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Date: 	Fri, 21 Feb 1992 06:29:32 PST
From: wegeng.henr801c at xerox.com
Subject: Re: boiling on electric stove

I missed the original question about boiling on an electric stove, but since
I`ve been doing this for several years I`ll make some comments.  It takes me
about 30 minutes to bring 5 gallons of cold water to a rolling boil (covered
lobster pot).  One way to shorten this time is to start with hot water instead
of cold.

I like the suggestion of using some sort of insulation around the pot, but
would caution that newsprint is flamable, so be very careful that it doesn`t
come in contact with the electric burner.  I`m sure that there are better
readily available materials that one could use (cotton, for example).

/Don
wegeng.henr801c at xerox.com

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 92 14:50:24 GMT
From: des at pandora.swindon.ingr.com (Desmond Mottram)
Subject: Invert sugar et al


> Date: Thu, 20 Feb 92 18:03 CST
> >From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
> Subject: 160 British Beers
> 
> Des--
> Although I don't own Line or Harrison, I've read that Line's recipes
> include many ingredients that we here in the states have great difficulty
> in purchasing, for example Golden Syrup, Demerara Sugar and Invert Sugar.

I read somewhere that invert sugar is not really necessary as ordinary 
sugar gets inverted anyway as part of the brewing process. Can a chemist 
elucildate? 

Golden Syrup? Don't you have *any* form of sugar syrup or cane syrup in 
the States? What about Maple syrup, has anyone tried that? It won't taste 
the same, but nor do different brands of golden syrup here. 

As for Demarara Sugar: molasses is *much* stronger flavoured, so you would 
only want tiny amounts, 4oz or less, plus white sugar to make up the weight. 
We have several varieties of brown sugar here, ranging from very light and 
mild to very dark and strong flavoured. Line does not make it clear which 
to use so experimentation is necessary, but that's part of the fun :-)

> Line's book *is* available in the states.  There are ways around the shortage
> of certain ingredients, but they take some experimentation (how much Blackstrap
> Molasses should be substituted for the Demerara?, etc.)  I just wanted to 
> warn newcomers, that it's not as easy as it sounds.  There is another
> wrinkle in Line's books: he used very attenuative yeast, therefore, his
> sweet recipes call for saccharine tablets, for example.  Another variable
> to work out.

I agree here, saccarine is horrid, don't use it unless you have to.

  I plan to buy Line's book, but based upon what I've read
> over the years in the HBD, I think that a U.S. "translation" would be a
> big improvement -- a noble undertaking, indeed!
> Al.

Perhaps a supplement explaining what ingredients to substitute, unless 
someone *wants* to try to re-duplicate all known British beers - could be 
fun trying.

Rgds, Des.


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Date:    Fri, 21 Feb 92 08:57 CST
From: ZLPAJGN%LUCCPUA.bitnet at UICVM.UIC.EDU
Subject: Summary of Responses re: Single v. TwoStage Methods, etc.

Dear HBD Readers,

I received a lot of responses with regard to my last batch of questions
concerning fermentation methodology, syphons, and hydrometer readings.
Here's a summary of the responses so far:

I got mixed responses with regards to the Burton (not "Barton" as I had
written earlier) Union System, the single-staged system with a blow-off
hose afixed at the top of the carboy during the initial stages of
fermentation.  Although this system is not regarded highly by Burch, it
seems to work well for those who use it properly.  Remember to replace
the blow-off hose with the fermentation lock after the initial
fermentation subsides (usually 2-3 days, being careful not to replace
lock too soon).  Some of the benefits of this particular method
are that the risks of infection are decreased and hydrometer readings
can be saved until bottling time, usually 2-3 weeks (?).  The drawbacks,
however, are that this might lend itself to a cloudier product, as it
is not separated from the sediment.  I must reiterate that I am still
quite the novice at this, but I suspect that this system would be
inappropriate for more complex recipies.  For example, Tony Babinec
suggests that a two-staged method facilitates clarity of the beer,
and is the place to try dry-hopping, a technique I'll have to try
after I've gained a little more experience.

The strongest response in favor of the two-staged method came from
John DeCarlo.  His suggestion that those of us who are thinking
about such a system invest in a 7 g. carboy as a primary is well taken.
With the "headroom" in such a container, one can attach a fermentation
lock directly, without the concerns of clogging a blow-off hose.
Further, glass is less likely to get scratched, and therefore ruined.

As for syphons, many who replied relied on the old "fill the hose with
water" method.  Invariably, each emphasized the importance of a
sanitized syphon hose, as well as hands.  (Sorry, Tony, but my printer
neglected to print out your more elaborate syphoning instructions, and
I didn't catch the problem until after I cleared out my mailbox of old
e-mail.  Maybe you could resumbit?)

Further, it seems that there's an overwhelming preference for sanitized
turkey basters for drawing off samples for hydrometer readings. (That's
three "for"'s in one sentense!!)

Finally, it seems that aligator clamps enjoy a good reputation for
stopping the flow through a syphon when bottling.  I'm not yet at that
stage, but I'll give it a shot when I am.  What's the scoop on buckets
with spiggots?  It sounds easier, but wont that lend itself to splashing
the beer?

My racking to a secondary carboy went well enough, though I still had
about a half gallon's worth of space between the surface of the brew
and the air lock.  I called a local home brew supply shop who said
that, though this was not desirable in the future, to add that much
water at this stage might damage the beer.  Secondly, since the
fermentation seemed to still be in full swing - co2 is coursing through
the lock - concerns of oxydation are lessened.  My question now is, if
infections were introduced, would that be visable, or left to taste?
In other words, what are the visible signs of infection at this stage,
if there are any?  My last question is, when the water in the lock
begins to level out - when co2 slows or ceases - is this bottling
time, or can I let my brew age right there in the fermenter?


Thanks for the responses, and I'll stay in touch.

John Norton
5305 N. Glenwood Ave., #3
Chicago, Il  60640

P.S. -  I saw the listing of Brew clubs in the last HBD and saw one
here in the Windy City.  Any info about how I can get involved (and
*really* throw off my academic career!!)?

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 92 09:59:13 -0500
From: donmoyer at ypanic.mko.dec.com
Subject: Jasper's HB Supply, NH - minor address correction


I recently submitted a notice that Jasper's HB Supply was moving from
their current location. I miss read the street number it should be 11 D
not 110. So the correct address is Nottingham Plaza, 11 D Tracy Lane,
Hudson, NH 03051.  800-FOR-BREW, 603-881-3052. They will be open for
business at the new location March 4,1992. Standard business hours until
then.  Sorry for the repeat message and BW usage.

Dave

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 92 10:03:46 EST
From: bmac at wpi.WPI.EDU (Bruce A Macwilliams)
Subject: Re: Lemon Beer


A few years back I tried a lime beer. I grated the rinds of
five small limes added them to the boil along with all the
the juice I could squeeze. I don't remember the exact recipe,
but it was relatively light on both malt and hops. The early 
results were way too limey, but it seemed to mellow some with 
age. I had no trouble getting rid of the stuff, so it was
certainly a success in that regard. I guess I would suggest
trying the rinds and juice from three medium lemons for a 
5 gallon batch. Good Luck!


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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 92 09:33:03 CST
From: RANDY OLINGER <"MOL104::ROLINGER" at est780.decnet>
Subject: Alcohol, bottling, inconsistencies, etc...

Here's my best attempt at answering a gentlemans questions.  I'm 
a relatively new brewer, but believe all should contribute to the
wealth of info on HBD.

1.  My first batch of beer (pale ale) came out pretty good...  except it  has
    a rather weak alcohol content - 2.5%  Is this normal..?? 

Aloclhol content is controlled by how many fermentable sugars are in the wort.  
To increase alcohol, use more malt extract syrup or dried malt extract 
(DME).  If you try to go too high, the yeast may not be able to stand it 
and die, so shoot for no more than 5-7 percent.  Some add sugar to boost 
alcohol, but the savings in cost is  not worth it IMHO.

2   This same batch of beer is inconsistent... I have a couple bottles that
    ......
How did you prime?  Some people recommend adding 1/2 tsp to each bottle and 
then filling with wort.  In addition to being a pain in the ass (as if 
bottling is not already) there will be inconsistencies.  Use 3/4 to 1 cup 
CORN (or other non-refined) sugar mixed evenly with the entire batch.  
Some unclean bottles could also be to blame.

Regarding cleaning, I soaked my bottles overnight in a mild bleach solution 
after cleaning out the gunk with a bottle washer.  I then rinsed (which is 
constantly under debate here on HBD  :*) ) and then stuck them in the 
dishwasher on HIGH HEAT (no detergent or anything) for a cycle.  Took them 
out and immediately bottled.  System worked great.  For cleaning other 
utensils, soak in mild bleach solution for 30-60 minutes and it should be 
OK.  Kind of depends on the quality of your water I would think.

3   bottling seems like a giant pain in the ass.. 
    with the beer kit I  received
    a bottling wand was included...  I do not understand the advantage of

I just recently learned that the tip on the end should be used thusly...
Stick the long bottling wand through the carboy stopper and put the plastic 
thing on the end.  Then submerge the whole thing it the carboy using the 
plastic thing to keep the end away from the dead yeast sediment on the 
bottom.  This makes it easy to do transferring to a bottling bucket.  We 
used the tube as a measure of when the bottle was full.  Start each bottle 
with the tube at the bottom (to reduce aeration) and gradually puul it 
higher until the bottom of the wand is about at the bottle's halfway point. 
Now fill the bottle to the brim, and when you remove the wand there will be 
the 1-1.5 inch space.  This takes a bit of practice.....  I bought 2 tubes 
and use them both during bottling.  One on each end of a 3/8" hose.

4   use of hops... during boil... end of boil...  or both..  why...
Good question.  A matter of taste.  Most extracts are available hopped.  At 
the end of boil, adding hops will add some aroma to the beer, but at that 
point my whole house already smells like a brewery, so it is kind of hard 
to notice the hop aroma.  (Not that I'm complaining, I like that smell.)   
Maybe my olfactory senses leave a bit to be desired.  

5   Stout...
Sorry, out of my league.   :-)  I did get a kick out of the way you 
referred to the brewing procedure as an algorithm.  We computer people are 
surely a unique breed.

Good luck.
Randy Olinger

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 92 10:46:33 EST
From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West)
Subject: starch ferments

In (what I believe is) the first Foxfire book there is a long article 
on moonshining. The description of the process implies to me that the 
sour fermentation and the mash happen at the same time. 

Interesting reading.

Carl 
WISL,BM.


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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 92 10:20:37 -0700
From: Kent Dinkel <dinkel at hpmtaa.lvld.hp.com>
Subject: Re:  Homebrew Digest #829 (February 21, 1992)
Full-Name: Kent Dinkel

Kawano-san,

> How was the video show?

Once we show it, I'll let you know.  Once every couple of months ALL of MTD
(production, marketing, and the lab) gets together to be updated on the
latest developments.  We're planning to show the YHP video at our next
meeting.  I believe that this wonderful short documentary will be nominated
for an Academy Award.

Sayonara (I probably didn't spell this right),

Kent

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Date:          Fri, 21 Feb 92 09:24:06 PST
From: "Emily Breed" <embreed at vnet.ibm.com>

Re:  160 British Beers

Lyle's Golden Syrup and Demerara sugar are available from Great Fermentations
of Santa Rosa (sorry, I don't have a catalog to check for their phone number,
but they advertise in most issues of *zymurgy*).  I'm very happy with the
supplies I've gotten from GFoSR - they're friendly, knowledgable, helpful,
and fast.

Standard disclaimer, I have no interest, financial or otherwise, in GFoSR...

Emily Breed                                              (embreed at vnet.ibm.com)

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 92 11:16:09 EST
From: hpfcla.fc.hp.com!hplabs!hp-pcd.cv.hp.com!lotus!"CRD!Chris_Fitch at LOTUS"
Subject: Brewing in San Fran

~~inner_header~~
To: UNIXML::"hp-pcd!hplabs!hpfcla!rdg%hpfcmi.fc.hp.com"
Cc: CRD::"Mary Bonner"
Subject: Brewing in San Fran

I will be relocating to the San Fran area and need to know a few things about 
the city!

1.) Where in San Fran can I get home brewing supplies?

2.) Where are the best breweries in town?

I am currently in Boston and brew quite a bit so I know the Boston Area, any 
help will be greatly appreciated...

Thanks
Chris Fitch


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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 92 14:25:27 EST
From: cjh at vallance.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: re rare ingredients in Line's recipes

   I was in Beer and Wine Hobby a few months ago and noticed Demerara sugar
among several shelves of assorted interesting-looking adjuncts; I didn't
check _Brewing_Beers_Like_Those_You_Buy_ against their stock, but they
might be worth a call for anyone trying to use the recipes in Line's book.
B&WH may have more of an English influence from the area (our first brewpub
specifically produces English bitters and stouts, initially overseen by a
brewer imported from Burton), but other large homebrew shops may also be
carrying more out-of-the-mainstream supplies (and if you ask and they
don't, maybe they'll start). I don't know how B&WH compares on prices or
quality as I don't normally go there (just not as convenient as two other
places). They're at 180 New Boston St., Woburn MA 01801, phone
617-933-8818, fax 617-662-0872, orders 800-523-5423.

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 92 13:29:56 PST
From: grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: Yeasty Ramblings


>From: mvalent at calstatela.edu

>S. cerevisiae is the genus species classification of the yeast.  Nearly all of
>the yeast used for fermentation is this species.  When you use a "different" 
>yeast for your beer, it's a differnt strain of S. cerevisiae and not a 
>different species of yeast.  

While it's true that there are many strains of S. cerevisiae available
to us, it doesn't stop there. S. cerevisiae is what we commonly refer
to as "ale yeast". Lager yeast on the other hand is S. uvarum. It is
often referred to as S. carlsbergensis, a name which speaks of the 
pioneering work done by the brewmaster at a certain Danish brewery.
The name S. uvarum seems to be preferred.

Bavarian wheat beers are made with S. delbruckii, often in conjunction
with S. cerevisiae. There are other yeasts that are sometimes used in
the production of wine (S. bayunus me thinks). Then there is the microbial 
zoo of Belgian brewing, though many of these critters aren't yeasts.

On a related note, Conn Copas asks about fermentation of starches. There
are super attenuating yeasts (S. diastaticus, etc.), which are capable 
of fermenting the "unfermentable". I remember reading somewhere that these 
yeasts produce their own diastatic enzymes, and then metabolize the 
resulting sugars.

Happy Fermenting,
CR

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 92 10:35:43 PST
From: gummitch at techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Some answers

> 
> Date:         Thu, 20 Feb 92 08:52:37 EST
> From: marc julian <CMSMARC at uga.cc.uga.edu>
> Subject:      questions
> 
> 
> I have some basic questions for any who choose to answer me...
> 
> 1.  My first batch of beer (pale ale) came out pretty good...  except it has
>     a rather weak alcohol content - 2.5%  Is this normal..??  if this is weak
>     ...why...??
> 
No, I'd say it wasn't at all normal. How did you arrive at the figure,
and what was your OG? Did you measure the specific gravity at the
beginning and end of fermentation?


> 2   This same batch of beer is inconsistent... I have a couple bottles that
>     are just great... and then one with a strange aftertaste..
>     I'm sure I just need to be more sanitary in the bottling process... but
>     what does that mean...  how compulsive are you in your sanitization
>     process..??  what lengths does/should one go to..
> 
> 3   bottling seems like a giant pain in the ass.. with the beer kit I received
If the batch is inconsistent in the bottle, then you probably have a
problem with your bottling sanitation. You *should* be compulsive, if
you want consistently good beer.  There are a lot of ways to sanitize
bottles; my own preference is to put clean bottles in the oven, raise
temp to 350, and leave them for 1-1/2 hours. If I'm not going to use
them the next morning, I put little aluminum foil caps on them before
they go in the oven.


>     a bottling wand was included...  I do not understand the advantage of
>     this tool over a plain tube...  I didn't have time to play around with it
>     because I was too busy bottling...  so what's the use of this thing..
>     why is this orange cap on the end of the wand... ??  is it just for
>     transferring beer from the fermenter to a secondary...??
> 
The wand is really helpful; the problem with a simple tube is that it
tends to leak and drip. The bottling wand should have a spring-loaded
tip that only opens when pressed against the bottom of the bottle. On
the other end of the apparatus is a little orange foot (maybe this is
what you're referring to) that keeps the in-flow end of the tube about
the level of sedimented yeast and trub. This helps keep the beer clear.


> 4   use of hops... during boil... end of boil...  or both..  why...
> 
> 5   stout...  I would like my next beer to be a stout...  I'd appreciate any
Well, yes. Hops are added early in the boil for bittering, but the
flavor and aroma compounds are very volatile and boil away. To get lots
of hop flavor and aroma, you need to add hops again late in the boil, or
at the end of the boil, or after the boil (in the fermenter). The later
you add them, the more aroma you will get. 



> From: Brian Davis <brian%mbf.uucp at ics.uci.edu>
> Subject: Re: Berliner Weisse tasting results
> 
> In HBD 828, Aaron Birenboim said...
> 
> 	>One other interesting part of the brewery was that they put
> 	>the hops in the MASH!  This allows them to use more wheat.
> 
> How does hopping the mash effect the amount of wheat which can be used?
> 
The hops added are either spent (from previous use) or aged. What they
do is provide a replacement for the barley husks that would ordinarily
build the filter bed in the lauter tun.  Anchor apparently uses spent
hops this way in its wheat beer.


- --Jeff Frane




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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 92 17:54:14 EST
From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West)
Subject: Where did I get my hops rhizomes?

Wow! Ask a few hard questions about hops and people assume I know the 
answers to all the easier ones. Instant authority! :) Wrongo.

What I know about growing hops is this: 
I got mine in too late last year and ended up with four vines from 
3' to 7' tall. I harvested 20 cones off the tall vine (Bullion) and 
that's it. I took cuttings before the frost (pretty much) and now have 
a 3' hallertaur growing about an inch a day in my kitchen, and 
some short sickly looking Saaz plants that may never go anywhere*. 

The book I have is _Homegrown Hops_, I forget the author's name. 
I have seen this book in every homebrewing shop I've been to.

I got my rhizomes from Dave Wills at:

  Freshhops
  36180 Kings Valley
  Philomath, Oregon  97370
  (503) 929 2736

He'll take orders on his answering machine, he takes credit cards.

 *I suspect my Saaz rhizome has a virus, anyone know what to do about it? 

Carl
WISL,BM.


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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 92 14:17:35 CST
From: ingr!b11!mspe5!guy at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Outdoor cooker question

    I've seen references to using an old gas water heater burner to construct
a beer cooker.  Well, my dad recently replaced his gas water heater because it
was leaking and it is now sitting outside at his house.  My question is, how
would one go about constructing a cooker out of this?  I know I'd have to cut
the thing open to get the burner and change the gas ports for LP instead of
natural gas but what else should I know?  Is it worthwhile vs. buying one of
the many pre-built units on the market?  I'm ahead of the game on the price of
the burner but welding on a support for the pot, etc. might make it more 
trouble than it's worth.  What think ye?  My dad might even have an extra LP
tank in his garage...  Thanks!

- --
Guy McConnell
"Red Mountain Ale, made in the shadow of the Vulcan's butt"



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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 92 08:53 CST
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: BEER BREAD PUDDING, Roasted Grain

 
 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling
 ------------------------------
 
 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 92 19:34 GMT
 From: "KATMAN.WNETS385"
 
 Subject: KWAS
 
 >      Now that we have Jack's bread recipe (which I plan to try next time I
        brew), we have to make beer, make bread with the grains, take any
        leftover bread and make kwas, and take the kwas leavings to make bread
        pudding.
 
 However,  we need a recipe for bread pudding.
 ..........
 
 I took my spent grain reprocessing one step further on the last batch.
 
 I dried about 5 pounds and then ran it through the blender and produced 
 something with a texture very much like wheat bran.  As it is dry, it can be 
 stored more easily and used in the same ways as bran.  I tried it with 
 oatmeal and it is delicious but the amount used must be reduced from what one 
 would use with bran.  One part grain to 3 parts oatmeal seems to be about 
 right.
 
 To cook it, add double the amount of water and a dash of salt.  Nuke it for 
 two min then stir and nuke it for another one min.   Top with brown sugar, 
 syrup or honey.  Your colon will love you.
 
 I used to use bran in my bread but I now use the spent grain instead an like 
 it a lot better..
 
 For those who saw my video, I used the same set up to dry the spent grain as 
 I used in the video to dry the sprouted barley in the malt making segment.  
 For those who have not had the pleasure, I made a frame out of wood and 
 window screen that sits on top of a box fan which sits on two by fours, which 
 sit on a table, to allow air to be drawn through the grain and out the 
 bottom.
 
 Overnight and then some on medium speed, dried it nicely.
 
 From: abirenbo at rigel.hac.com (Aaron Birenboim)
 Subject: roasted grains
 
 >  Can i make a reasonable choclate or black patent malt by roasting
 my pale malt in the oven?  If so... what temps... what times.
 
   Does anybody know how to make roasted barley?  What kind of barley?
 (un-husked?? pearled??) roastin time, temp?
 
 
 Don't know what to officially call what I make but I have three batches going 
 now (one almost gone) that I made with kitchen roasted grain.
 
 
 1.  The first one used a pound of barley, roasted at 450F for 40 min.
 
 The barley was left over from the malt making demo in the video.  It is 
 viable seed barley from a feed store.  For roasting, I would think you could 
 use any form of barley.
 
 It is as hard as stone until some critical point around 30 min, when it 
 becomes crunchy.  More roasting time, increases the "coffee" taste and 
 darkens the color.
 
 The resulting beer initially had a definite roasted grain taste but it 
 eventually mellowed into just a general, overall heavier taste.  
 
 
 
 2.  The second one used a pound of Klages, roasted at 450F for 15 min.
 
 Malt takes much less time/temp to roast and I just continued till I got a 
 roasted flavor.  It is also a very convenient way to darken the color 
 naturally.
 
 This batch is waiting for an empty keg and I can't comment on the taste.
 
 
 3.  The third batch used a pound of each.  
 
 It just went into secondary so, again, no comment on taste.
 
 All used a total of 9 lbs grain to yield 7 gal wort.
 
 
 I was going to ask about the same question you did and I hope someone comes 
 up with the "facts".  It seems to me that, aside from crystal malt and 
 inherent differences in barley, one should be able to simulate most 
 speciality malts by further kilning of a basic malt.
 
 From: <S94WELKE%USUHSB.bitnet at VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
 Subject:  Aluminum and Alzheimer's Disease
 
 >The brain lesions found in AD do indeed contain Al, but the same levels of 
 Al are found in normal peoples' brains.
 
 That sounds like something the "tobacco lady" might say on Crossfire.
 
 How could the controversy ever have arisen if that were true?
 
 arf
 
 

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Date:         Sat, 22 Feb 92 14:44:39 EST
From: richard barrett <RBARRETT at uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      file inquiry

G'day all:

I was trying to get some files the other day from GARBO.UWASA.FI and I changed
into the CAT'S MEOW directory; I noticed some recipe files there with a name li
ke "recipe.part.01.Z".  My question is what is the deal with the 'Z' extension.
 ..is there some program that I need to convert these files?  If anyone can give
 me some information I really would appreciate it.

                               Thanks,
                               Richard T. Barrett

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 92 00:24:51 CST
From: Michael Charlton <charlto at ccu.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Re: Blowoff vs. trub removal

Al makes some very good comments about my previous points.

>> All I know
>>is that after I started doing this, my beer has improved immensly (the
>>improvement was better than going to all grain, or switching to liquid
>>yeast).  I will go as far as to say that if you do not use blowoff and
>>do not make an effort to get rid of a significant quantity trub BEFORE you
>>pitch the yeast, you will almost certainly have a fusel alcohol problem.
>
>I'm not going to flame, rather I'd like to learn more about this.  Why do
>you propose this correlation?  Do you have a reference?

In general, my comments come directly from my experience.  I have tried
to dig up information on the subject, but it is hard to come by.
I know I'm going to get into trouble here, but this is my understanding.
When yeast is in it's respiration mode, it takes some time off from
reproducing to build and repair its cell walls.  It can do this by
manufacturing the materials it needs using oxygen.  However, it so happens
that trub contains exactly the right material to rebuild cell walls with.
The yeast will, in fact, use this material *in preference to* oxygen
when rebuilding its walls.  However, using this material produces fusel
alcohols.  Note that I am not saying that respiration is bypassed altogether.
The yeast still uses oxygen.  It's just that it does not use it to rebuild
its cell walls.  As far as a reference is concerned, I'm afraid I can't
be much help.  I honestly can't remember where I read this.  Likely places
to look are Dave Miller's article on "Yeast Bite" in one of the transcripts
of the AHA conference (1987 probably), and George Fix's book.  I also looked
up this subject in a textbook on yeast that had a whole section devoted
to brewers yeast, and another on brewing (perhaps Malting and Brewing Science?)
Unfotunately, this was all a few years ago and I didn't take any notes,
thus I can't be more specific.  If I get some time, I'll try to track down
the info.  I do remember that the information I got was vague and often
contradictory (I was really confused by Dave Miller's article since yeast
bite has nothing to do with fusel alcohols (according to that textbook on
yeast whose name I can't remember...)).  Also, Dave Miller recommends
racking just after high krausen to eliminate fusel alcohol production.
Unfortunately, if what I am saying is correct, the damage will already
be done (to a significant degree) by then.  I have tried racking just after
high krausen, with very little improvement in flavour compared to not
racking at all.  I have been very interested in this topic for quite
some time.  When I took a tour of Samuel Smith's brewery last summer,
I asked one of the brewers whether they remove the trub before they
pitch the yeast.  His answer was, yes, they used a whirlpool to separate
the spent hops and trub from the cooled wort before they pitch the yeast.
They are careful to get all of it out, and aren't worried about wastage
because they put the remaining wort (mixed with the hops and trub) into
the lauter tun for the next batch and remove the rest of the stuff when they
sparge.  I find this significant, because Samuel Smith's uses a Yorkshire
stone system which is the commercial equivalent to a blowoff system crossed
with a yeast recirculation system.  On the other hand, I attended
a seminar given by a former head brewmaster of Molson's brewery.  He
gave a few bits of advice to homebrewers, one of which was to ferment
at low temperatures.  He claimed that you can't make good beer fermenting
at high temperatures, because the fusel alcohol production was too high.
Given this remark, I found it hard to believe this guy was from Liverpool.
However, I asked him whether removing trub before you pitched the yeast
would reduce the amount of fusel alcohols and he looked at me as if I had
rocks in my head.  He claimed that no major Canadian brewery removed the
trub from the wort before fermentation.  He also said that German breweries
routinely do it, but that he didn't know why.

As far as doing some good scientific work on this subject, I'm with you.
I'll be the first to admit that my notion of the idea is very vague,
and though I'm getting a significant improvement in my beers using the
trub removal technique, I can't claim to understand why.  As luck would
have it, though, my dad is a professor of chemistry at the University
of Manitoba and has offered to analyze beer samples for fusel alcohol
and ester content as a matter of interest.  We've been discussing how
best to approach the problem.  Unfortunately, the best approach would be
to split a 20 gallon batch of beer in to 4 fermentors, each pitched with
the same yeast and fermented at the same temperature.  I don't have
the resources to make such a large amount of beer (I might be able to
manage 10 gallons, if it were fairly low gravity, but this would require
2 2.5 gallon fermentors and 2 3 gallon fermentors, which I don't currently
have).  Compounded with all these problems, is the fact that I have no
time to do this until about May or June... 

Anyway, I hope the length of this message doesn't put you off.  I find
this area intensly interesting and would like to hear comments from
anyone (especially if you actually know about this stuff).  I sometimes
find that people who know the answers to questions are the last people
to open their mouth (the inverse also seems to be true...).  I should
probably put in a disclaimer that the above message is only my understanding
of the topic.  I might be spouting pure garbage, and the fact that I
haven't given a clear refernce to my impressions should make people
suspicious that I don't know what I'm talking about.  Having said that,
I hope the above was not just a collosal waste of bandwidth.

         Mike

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 92 20:56:11 -0600
From: john at warped.phc.org (John A. Palkovic)
Subject: Electric Stoves

In HBD # 829,  Darren Evans-Young <DARREN at UA1VM.UA.EDU> sez:

>Because the pot is so big (diameter), heat dissipation on the
>stove surface is a problem. I often smell burnt paint while I'm
>boiling.  I just wonder how long my stove is going to last.  I'm
>usually relaxing and enjoying homebrew instead of worrying about it.

Indeed. I just replaced two bakelite insulator plugs and two heating
elements on my electric stove (a Tappan) to the tune of $79. The stove
is about eight years old. The bakelite parts were just oxidized and
crumbled into bits! The insulators at the ends of the heating elements
were also damaged. The gentleman at the "U-Fix-It" store where I bought
the parts said it is a common failure.  It is clear that with a big
wide 33 qt brewpot sitting on the stove and the element cranked up to
high the stove parts are getting quite hot. The hot bakelite has a very
noticeable odor. I have thought of modifying the stove to increase air
cooling on the affected parts. Of course, this may only be a problem
with Tappan stoves. I think gas stoves are much better for cooking beer.

John

- ---
I joined the League for Programming Freedom -- Send mail to john at phc.org
work: john_palkovic at ssc.gov

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Date:         Sun, 23 Feb 92 22:51:50 EST
From: "walt <ST101656 at BROWNVM>" <ST101656 at BROWNVM>
Subject:      Re: Homebrew Digest #828 (February 20, 1992

my first attempt at home brewing was taken from AMATEUR WINE MAKING by  S.M.
Tritton pp. 152-58.  we used 3lb. in a gallon of water and a sedimentary wine
yeast.  it seems to be progressing well but the fermentation appears to have
 stopped while it is still quite sweet and its specific gravity is about 1.10.
 the yeast may not have been activated imediately because i forgot to add
citric acid.  i may also have been a bit excessive with the addition of campden
 tablets (ie. four to the gallon).  what to do?  add more yeast and try to get
fermentation started again or wait and let it clarify?

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 92 21:35:50 -0800
From: Lee J. Slezak <slezakl at atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Results of Hazel-Nuts in Beer

Well the results are in.. I have tapped into my supply of Hazel-Nut
Amber Ale that was brewed using crushed roasted hazel-nuts.  I did an
experiment and put a hazel-nut in a few bottles.  Most people seemed
to think that due to the oils in the nuts that I would have a problem
with head retention.  Well I had no problem with head retention, but
there was very little if any of a hazel-nut like taste.  There was basically
no difference in taste between the bottles with nuts compared to those
without.  It is a great amber ale, medium bodied,  with a nice amber
color.  But not much of a nutty taste.  I really like the ale but not much
of a nut taste.  I think maybe next time, if I try it again, I will use a cup
of the nuts in the boil and possibly putting some in the carboy.  I almost
used a heading agent which basically consisted of dextrose and gum
arabic.  But after hearing that gum arabic is used to make the gum that
seals envelopes I decided to skip that one and take my chances with the
head.  Well, I guess this little experiment basically says, if you use a
little bit of nuts, like 1/4 cup, it really will not effect the beer at all.  I
will keep you all posted if I try it again, and thank you very much to all
those who were nice enough to respond to my previous posts with all of
your helpful advice and suggestions.

Happy Brewing-

Lee J. Slezak

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #830, 02/24/92