FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  The German Beer Market (Fritz Keinert)
  Re: HB virgin, Recipe: Honey Ginger Beer (Don Veino - Sun ECOPS Product Assurance/New Products)
  starters (Alan Mayman)
  Kathy Ireland (Mike Tavis)
  Beer Judge List elitist bastards (chuck)
  Using whole leaf hops (Jeff J. Miller)
  Whitbred Ale Yeast(s) (Michael T. Daly)
  yeast debate (donald oconnor)
  Jack Who?? (ZLPAJGN)
  Flavor profiles of roasted malts and barley (Mark J. Easter)
  HANDS OFF Chezch Budvar!! (Desmond Mottram)
  Lager, Wyeast, (Jack Schmidling)
  dry vs liquid yeast; debunking the RS Ale Momily (STROUD)
  Hunter Energy Monitor prices? (KIERAN O'CONNOR)
  Re: Lager, Wyeast (Jim Grady)
  Pub Draught Guinness for the rest of us (Jim Grady)
  Re: Lemon Beer (David Christian Homan)
  Yeast, Truth and the American Way (Jeff Frane)


Send submissions to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues!]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Mar 92 08:43:00 CST
From: Fritz Keinert <keinert at iastate.edu>
Subject: The German Beer Market

Chuck Cox' posting about A-B's activities in Czechoslovakia was very
interesting. In the same vein, here is a brief summary of an article
from "DIE ZEIT", a weekly German newspaper. (I get the overseas
edition).

About a month ago, in the business section, they talked about the
effects of opening the German beer market a few years back.

The fear was that cheaply produced foreign beers would flood the
market and crowd out German beers. In reality, nothing happened for a
long time.

Now, several years later, a foreign beer is taking over a noticeable
share of the market for the first time. The winner is ... Corona.
Apparently, this has nothing to do with flavor, but goes hand in hand
with a current boom in Mexican restaurants and vacations in Mexico.
Corona did not even advertise in Germany.

At the same time, foreign breweries are entering the German market
from an unexpected direction: several large breweries have either
bought or subcontracted with existing German breweries. These German
subsidiaries produce versions of their parent companies' beers
according to the Reinheitsgebot, for sale in Germany. The breweries
mentioned in the article that have done this so far are Foster
(Australia), Carlsberg-Tuborg (Denmark), Grolsch (Holland), and
Guinness (Ireland).

The world's largest two breweries are about to do the same:
Anheuser-Busch (USA) and Heineken (Holland). From what Chuck says, A-B
might be taking the Czechoslovakian road instead, but as big as they
are, I would not be surprised if they also bought a German brewery (or
two or three).

>From what I understand, Bud and other brands vary from state to state
here, too, and between the USA and Canada, so this approach is really
nothing new. Still, a Bud with actual flavor, brewed according to the
Reinheitsgebot...? 
- -----------
Fritz Keinert
keinert at iastate.edu

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Date: Mon, 9 Mar 92 09:44:49 EST
From: Don.Veino at East.Sun.COM (Don Veino - Sun ECOPS Product Assurance/New Products)
Subject: Re: HB virgin, Recipe: Honey Ginger Beer

In HBD # 839, jack.stclair at amail.amdahl.com ("HB virgin") writes:

"4.  What's a carboy?" 		-- finally, a question I can answer!

The _American Heritage_ dictionary defines it as "A large glass or
plastic bottle [...] often used to hold corrosive liquids."  Of course,
we homebrewers hope our beer isn't considered a corrosive liquid!  A
good example of a carboy is a glass or plastic water cooler bottle
(don't get caught "borrowing" one ;-)

Jack, seeing as you are just starting out, you might want to try the
following recipe.  This is also a good basic beer for those ready to
move up from a "kit"...  easy to make but much more rewarding!


HONEY GINGER BEER -- from BEER & WINE HOBBY'S RECIPE OF THE MONTH, MAY 1991

Ingredients Listing (US Measurements)
===================
1 Can John Bull Malt, Light-Plain (Unhopped)	3 Oz Diced Ginger
1 Oz Hallertaur Hop Plugs			Liquid Finings
3 Lbs Honey					1 Cup Priming Sugar
Glenbrew Yeast

Their Directions
================

"Boil malt and hop plugs for 30 minutes at very low simmer.  Be sure to
tie hops into straining bag so it can be easily removed.  After 15
minutes of boil add diced ginger root.  Continue to boil for the
balance of 15 more minutes.  Remove ginger.  In primary fermenter or
single stage fermenter add 3 lbs. of honey and pour hot liquid over
it.  Make up balance to yield 5 gallons.  When cooled add Glenbrew
yeast (this yeast is made for a specially dry fermenting brew).
Starting SG 1040 finish SG 1004.  24 hour prior to bottling add 1
Tablespoon of liquid finings per gallon.  Proceed with bottling as
usual.

"This makes a most delightful summer beer, with a slight ginger taste,
and a wonderful mellow ginger aftertaste.  Chill and enjoy!!"

My Preparation Notes
====================

Started with 1.5 gals cold filtered water in stockpot.  Added malt
extract and began heating.  At steaming, added hops in straining bag.
After 15 minutes, added diced ginger (actually, slices about as thick
as a nickel -- I wanted the surface area increase).  Continued simmer
for 15 minutes.  Meanwhile, added 3 lbs honey to fermenter (using some
known weights, a fulcrum and a bit of mechanics, then measuring the
results, I figure this is about 40 Oz liquid measure).  When simmer
completed, removed ginger and hops bag, and poured hot wort into
fermenter (7 gal glass carboy).  Added cold filtered water to make 5
gals.  Pitched yeast at about 80 deg F (I needed to go to bed, this
took about 7 hours -- next project: wort chiller!).  Forgot to take
initial SG reading.

Fermentation Notes
==================

Used closed fermentation with blowby tube.  Fermentation took ~7 days.
Light (0.5 inch) top foam layer initally, tailing off to zilch in about
1 day. Good fermentation activity... added 5 pkgs VINBRITE liquid
clearing agent (they were out of liquid finings when I bought
everything) 1 day before bottling.  Terminal SG 1008 (pretty close!)

Bottling
========

Racked to plastic (Nalgene) container... boiled 1 cup corn sugar in 3
cups water and added to container, stirring well to mix.  Bottled into
54 std "long necks".  Aged in the good old cellar... dark and cool!

Reviews/Comments
================

Taste good/light.  Very clear, with a golden brown to red color.
Slight "apple" smell upon opening, but no fruity taste... just a clean
ginger flavor.  Good head and strong carbonation (I think I'll back off
a bit on the priming sugar next time).  Improved with age, 5+ weeks
later it was great, still getting better 4 months later (but only 4 btls left!).  No chill haze.  Medium alcohol content.  GREAT with asian foods
(tasted similar to Tsing Tao, but better).

I wanted to make something that would be well received by my "light
beer" drinking friends, without having to do all the work of a lager.
You know the type -- you brew a great english bitter, they bug you for
a glass, you let 'em taste it and then they ask you for a Bud... this
has been my fastest moving batch to date, due to the populist appeal.
And no one's asked for a Bud yet!

I think I'm going to experiment a little with some fresh rosemary in the
next batch, in place of some/all of the ginger... we'll see how it goes!

Recognition
===========

Original recipe from a 'recipe of the month' postcard from:
Beer & Wine Hobby, 180 New Boston St; Rear, Woburn, MA 01801-6206
(617) 933-8818 - (800) 523-5423 - Fax (617) 662-0772

No, I don't own stock, etc... but I figure I owe them something ;-)

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Date: Mon, 9 Mar 92 10:06:12 -0500
From: Alan Mayman <maymanal at scvoting.fvo.osd.mil>
Subject: starters

Howdy,

My question is, why are starters necessary & what benefits do they provide?

If the medium in a starter is wort, I don't understand what is different about the smaller quantity in a  
starter that is preferable over 5 gallons in a carboy?  Is this only something to do when you are trying to
increase the amount of yeast before pitching?

TCJOH recommends re-hydrating dried yeast to improve performance, and John Decarlo mentioned "a strain on 
yeast cell walls" when pitching directly into the wort.  What does re-hydrating in sterile water do that 
your wort wont?

				Thanks,

				   Alan

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Date: Mon, 9 Mar 92 10:23:38 est
From: mtavis at saturn.hyperdesk.com (Mike Tavis)
Subject: Kathy Ireland

This weekend I saw Kathy Ireland doing a Bud commercial.  At least I
think it was Bud.  It may have been Miller or Michelob.  I was so
shocked at the sight that the details elude me.  Anyway, how can she
go from the cover of Zymurgy to the this?  Has she no shame?  I guess
this is just another sad example of selling out to commercialism.  The
real question is who's next?  Will we see Charlie Papazian doing Pabst
promos?  Or Michael Jackson marketing Miller (the beer)?

- -- Mike






  o o|  Michael Tavis, HyperDesk Corporation
  o o|  Suite 300, 2000 West Park Dr., Westboro, MA  01581
  ---+  E-mail: mike_t at hyperdesk.com        (508) 366-5050


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Date: Mon Mar  9 10:14:30 1992
From: synchro!chuck at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Beer Judge List elitist bastards

The Beer Judge Mailing List (JudgeNet) is an Internet mailing list dedicated 
to the discussion of issues of interest to beer judges and competition 
organizers.  Membership in the list is open to anyone with an interest in 
judging or organizing beer competitions.  It is a low-volume mailing list with 
an excellent signal-to-noise ratio.

To join the mailing list, send your email address, name, and BJCP rank (use 
'apprentice' if not ranked) to judge-request@ synchro.com.  Use this address 
for information requests too.  

=====
Chuck Cox
Hopped/Up Racing Team
chuck at synchro.com


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Date: Mon, 9 Mar 92 10:00:22 CST
From: jmiller at anubis.network.com (Jeff J. Miller)
Subject: Using whole leaf hops


As my frozen harvest of hops from last year nears its end, I had
noticed that it was taking more to get an equal bittering.  After
disecting the spent hops from a previous brew I noticed that many
of the glands were still untouched by the wort (this after a greater
then 1 hour boil!).

So this weekend I took more hops out of the freezer and put them in
the food processor.  Great smell and it put the zest back into the
hops.

Now all this might seem obvious, but sometimes its easy to overlook
the obvious.  For all of you thinking about growing hops this summer,
you may want to remember to chop them up (just) before using them.

- -- 
Jeff Miller                 Network Systems Corporation
Internetwork Group          7600 Boone Avenue North
jmiller at network.com         Minneapolis MN 55428   (612)424-4888

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Date: Mon, 9 Mar 92 10:15:48 CST
From: ssi!mtd at uunet.UU.NET (Michael T. Daly)
Subject: Whitbred Ale Yeast(s)

Some time ago, there was a discussion that noted that the Whitbread
ale yeast was actually 3 different yeasts.

If I repitch the wort on the yeast cake from the secondary, I would be
selecting against the first variety.  Anyone have any long term 
experience on this?  (Is this the yeast Fr. B uses?)

Mike
	(Black Swan femto-brewery, Eau Claire, Wi.)


 Mike Daly (uunet!ssi!mtd)  --  (715) 839-8484 
 Supercomputer Systems Inc.  1414 W. Hamilton Ave.  Eau Claire, WI 54701
 There are two kinds of people in this world.....Cannibals and Lunch.

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Date: Mon, 9 Mar 92 10:42:57 -0600
From: oconnor at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (donald oconnor)
Subject: yeast debate

from today's posts on the digest, i gather that most people now
accept the merits of liquid yeast vs dry.  there are a diminishing few
such as jack who are still burning the torch for dry.  most of his
posting today was of the  "Is too!  Is not!" variety.  There was
one argument he made though that I've heard quite often that i'll
address.  Jack points out that home bread makers and some bakeries
use dry bread yeast.  this is true.  however, the best bakeries (e.g.
those fancy-pants french places) do not. well-trained pastry chefs
do not use dry yeast from the store.  they buy and culture their own
yeast for the same reasons that we use liquid yeasts, quality.

jeff franes flame of jack last week was a bit much and i wrote him
privately to express that.  however, the spanking he took on the 
digest the following day seemed a bit much and at the risk of offending
some, a bit sanctimonious.  to many referress will slow the game to a 
crawl.

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Date:    Mon, 09 Mar 92 11:17 CST
From: ZLPAJGN%LUCCPUA.bitnet at UICVM.UIC.EDU
Subject: Jack Who??

Dear Fellow Brewers,

Pardon my ignorance (I'm still very new to homebrewing having only
just bottled my first batch last Saturday) but who is Jack Schmidling
and why is there such a controversy surrounding him?  (He's not running
for public office, is he?)

I think it is important to keep in mind what this digest is all about.

Happy Brewing!  (Isn't that what it's all about, Charley?)

John Norton  (Due date for my firstborn: St. Patrick's Day!!)

P.S. - My appologies to the Chicago Beer Society for missing last
Thursday's meeting at Goose Island.  Perhapse after I've migrated from
"starving student" status to that of a gainfully employed, contributing
member of society I'll be able to attend.  That stewardship idea for
April sounds good...                                Cheers!

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Date: Mon, 09 Mar 92 09:38:44 PDT
From: Mark J. Easter <easterm at ccmail.orst.edu>
Subject: Flavor profiles of roasted malts and barley

          Greetings;

          Last week I brewed an all-grain scottish ale.  The recipe
          called for 2 oz of roasted barley and 3 oz of chocolate
          malt.  While waiting for the mash to complete starch
          conversion I flipped through Papazian's and Miller's books
          to find out what the relative contributions of these two
          ingredients would be in the beer.  Both books made
          references to color (roasted barley contributes to a reddish
          color and chocolate malt contributes a brown) however
          neither discussed flavors much, other than adding bitterness
          to the beer to complement the hop bitterness I have heard
          from other HB'ers and through the HBD that roasted barley
          adds a "dryness" to the beer, hence its use in dry stouts. 
          Can any of you enlighten me on the relative flavor profiles
          of the various kilned malts and roasted barleys?

          The beer I was brewing is supposed to mimic the Eugene,
          Oregon Steelhead brewery's excellent Steelhead Amber ale, a
          fine Scottish ale with a deep brown-amber color, lightly
          hopped, with a biscuit nose and clean finish.  If any of you
          are in Eugene anytime soon you owe it to yourself to try
          this ale!

          Second question:  Can anybody recommend a good
          non-attenuative ale yeast for brewing English brown ales
          and Scottish ales?  I substituted Wy'east British
          Ale yeast in the recipe as I was unable to get any detailed
          information from my supplier on the subject.

          I'll summarize the responses I get in a future version of
          the HBD and let you know how the batch turns out.  Please
          send your responses directly to me.  Thanks and I look
          forward to the information.


          Mark Easter
          easter at fsl.orst.edu
          easterm at ccmail.orst.edu


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Date: Mon, 9 Mar 92 18:29:07 GMT
From: des at pandora.swindon.ingr.com (Desmond Mottram)
Subject: HANDS OFF Chezch Budvar!!

> >From: synchro!chuck at uunet.UU.NET
> Subject: Budvar
> 
[Reprint of Camra article about AB buying shares in Czech Budvar deleted]
> 
> Elsewhere in What's Brewing, they editorialize that the tone of the offer 
> sounds more like A-B wants 100% of Budvar, not just 30% as they claim.  
> Certainly some of the promises that A-B is making require more than 30% 
> control to guarantee.  As you might expect, CAMRA is not in favor of a small 
> traditional brewery like Budvar being absorbed by a giant like A-B.  
> 
> While I agree on principle, I must admit that the idea of getting Budvar over
> here is attractive.

Take great care!! The whole point is that, time and time again, bitter 
experience shows that when a small traditional brewery gets absorbed by a
giant, within a very short time there is no small brewery, and you can kiss
goodbye to getting Czech Budvar anywhere - ever. If the small brewery made 
bad beer, perhaps no-one would mind too much, but in this case the beer they
make is one of the finest in the world - it's a real aristocrat.

Promises mean nothing to these people, they will make them to keep others 
quiet and then break them, weeping crocodile tears of remorse, wringing 
their hands and pleading "economic necessity", "brewery surplus to 
requirements" or whatever cynical euphamism is the trend at the time.

Many of us [in Camra] believe their real aim is to kill off a competitor. 
One who brews far better beer and who, rubbing salt into the wound, has in 
many countries the right to the Budwieser name (for the simple reason that 
the Czech brewery is older than the US one). If you think the AB has an 
altruistic wish to bring better beer to a wider audience, then you have had 
no experience of the ruthless practices of big breweries in this country 
and elsewhere. Your naaivity would be touching if it were not tragic. Far 
from supporting it, you should be backing a vociferous campaign to stop it.

Think about it, if AB really cared for quality beer they would make it 
themselves, wouldn't they?

> 
> =====
> Chuck Cox
> Hopped/Up Racing Team
> chuck at synchro.com

Desmond Mottram
d_mottram at swindon.ingr.com

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Date: Mon, 9 Mar 92 11:31 CST
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Lager, Wyeast,

 
 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling
 
 >From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
 
   >The liquid yeasts available are specific strains with known
    behavior.  If you really want something specific from your
    yeast, you have a much larger selection to choose from when
    choosing liquid yeasts.
 
 
 This may just be a semantic point but the dry yeast producers probably know 
 with as much exactness the specific strain and behavior they use as the 
 liquid producers.  One assumes that they maintian a culture lab to monitor 
 and maintain their process just like the liquid producers.
 
 What may or may not be unknown is what else is in the dry packet besides the 
 desired strain.
 
 No argument about available choices except that if one liked the taste of 
 beer made with EDME, for example, Wyeast could not satisfy him either.
 
 
 >From: oconnor at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (donald oconnor)
 
 >Not a single winning beer at the 1991 AHA national used dry beer yeast.
 
 Please realize that this statment at face falue is nothing but a 
 self-fulfilling phophesy.  When anyone who is seriously interested in 
 competing reads this, he will no doubt switch to liquid yeast for the next 
 contest.
 
 It is also quite posible that judges are so tuned to the taste of Wyeast that 
 they look for it and reject others.  If it is used as a standard for judging, 
 the results will be skewed.
 
 It is also quite possible that liquid yeast does indeed produce a better beer 
 but that is not necessarily the only conclusion one should draw from your 
 statement.
 
 
 >From: richard at pegasus.com (Richard Foulk)
 Subject: malting?
 
 >Has anyone here done any malting?  The local feed store sells whole barley
 for $.30 per pound and it looks okay to me.
 
 It's great fun, very rewarding and easy to do in small quantities.  I 
 demonstrate the process and how to make the necessary equipment in my video.  
 Perhaps one of the "reviewers" out there, who received a free copy would be 
 kind enough to send it on to you.
 
 BTW, I suggest you try sprouting a sample before you plunge into this.  I was 
 unable to get better that about 50% germination from feedstore barley and of 
 course, you have no idea what kind of barley it is.
 
 The ungerminated barley will rot and contaminate the entire batch.
 
 From an economic standpoint, you will have to get your barley for a lot less 
 than 30 cents a pound to come out ahead.  
 
 js
 

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Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1992 14:54 EST
From: STROUD <STROUD%GAIA at leia.polaroid.com>
Subject: dry vs liquid yeast; debunking the RS Ale Momily


I know where I stand on the issue of dry vs liquid yeasts: I changed to single
cell cultures a long time ago and haven't looked back.  Today, I would rather
not brew then throw a pack of dry yeast into my wort.  I feel that strongly
about it.  It's not that good beer can't be made with dry yeast, it's just that
it's a roll of the dice when you use it, and I'd rather not gamble with hours of
my work.

On the other hand, it's a free country and I figure that everyone can use
whatever makes them happy.   Dry yeast is cheap and easy to use, just like corn
sugar.  You can make beer with both and learn to like it.  Just don't expect
everyone else to.

But on to the main reason for this post:

Hidden in the midst of the on-going dry vs liquid (single cell culture) yeast
debate is what appears to be a universal condemnation of Red Star Ale yeast.
Well, I'm here to come to the defense of Red Star Ale yeast and to break a
momily:  

Red Star ale is actually a nice, clean somewhat unattenuative yeast.  It's the
other crap inside the yeast packet that causes all of the problems.  

I base this statement on an experiment that I performed for my homebrew club,
the Boston Wort Processors, about two years ago.  The following excerpt is from
Vol. III, # 5 of our newsletter:

To quote:

**************
"Red Star Ale yeast has a very bad reputation among homebrewers.  It usually
produces a unique banana-y phenolic-clove taste in any beer made with it.  This
may be desirable in certain wheat and Belgian brews, but is not generally
regarded as a positive element in most beers.

Are these characteristics due to the particular yeast strain in Red Star yeast,
or are they due to some bacterial or wild yeast contaminant?

THE EXPERIMENT
To answer this question, Sheri Almeda cultured Red Star Ale yeast on agar plates
and isolated four single cell yeast cultures.  I brewed a batch of beer and
split it into 5 one-gallon jugs.  The 5 jugs were fermented with the four yeast
cultures and dry Red Star Ale yeast.

THE RECIPE
1 can (3.3 lb) M&F Lager kit (contains 7.5 AAU's)
1.5 lb M&F hopped dry malt (3.8 AAU's)
1 cup firmly packed brown sugar
1 tsp gypsum

The above ingredients were boiled in 3.5 gallon water for 30 minutes, then 0.5 
oz of Fuggles leaf hops were added, the wort was removed from the heat, and 
quickly force cooled.

The hops were strained off and enough boiled/cooled water was added to yield
~4.5 gallons final volume.  The bitter wort was racked into 5 one-gallon
sanitized jugs, filling each ~3/4 full.  The yeasts were pitched (the cultured
yeasts had previously been started to give 125 ml of actively fermenting starter
and the dry yeast was rehydrated and active) and the airlocks were attached.

S.G. 1.042

The fermentations were single stage for 2 weeks at room temperature.

THE RESULTS
The dry yeast showed signs of fermentation within 3 hours.  All of the cultured
yeasts showed signs of fermentation within 6 hours.

The dry yeast finished fermentation in ~4 days, the cultured yeasts finished in
~6 days.  The dry yeast's ferment looked very opaque, while the cultured 
yeasts' ferments were very clear with suspended particles.

Approximate final gravities at bottling:
Red Star Dry:  1.008
Culture #1:  1.017
Culture #2:  1.017
Culture #3:  1.020
Culture #4:  1.022

THE TASTING:
The five beers were served blind in random order.  Everyone picked out the Red
Star dry yeast fermented beer with no problem, calling it smelly, cidery, thin,
and phenolic.  The other brews were mostly indistinguishable, but were described
as clean, sweet, tea-like, full bodied, and 'it doesn't taste like Red Star.'

THE CONCLUSION
I concluded that there is a contaminant of some kind in dry Red Star Ale yeast
that is responsible for its aroma/taste reputation.  The cultured yeasts'
ferments were very clean, and showed none of the phenolic tendencies of the dry
yeast.  The final gravities of the cultured yeasts were uniformly high, and it
leads one to wonder if this is a very unattenuative yeast.  

This experiment also points out the problem with using dry yeast.  You just
never know what's going to come out of that little packet.  Even though the
dried yeast was very viable and got off to a fast start, the final product had 
a contamination problem."

Addendum:  It was suggested that a newly cultured yeast is not as active as one
that has already been through several fermentation cycles.  To test this, I took
the slurry from the beer brewed with yeast culture #4 and brewed the same recipe
again.  This beer fermented from 1.042 down to ~ 1.015, an improvement, but
still fairly unattenuative.

**********************

So there you have it.  The problem isn't RS ale yeast, it's the _purity_ of the
yeast.  In my opinion, that's also the problem with most dry yeasts.  In and of
themselves they are good beer yeasts, but they are produced in such a manner
that their purity is compr _may_ (aThis may (and often does) cause defects to 
arise in the final product.

Any comments???

Steve Stroud


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Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1992 14:56 EDT
From: KIERAN O'CONNOR <OCONNOR%SNYCORVA.bitnet at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Hunter Energy Monitor prices?

Could someone please tell me the best place to mail order a Hunter
Energy monitor--including price for the monitor and shipping?

Thanks,

Kieran O'Connor

oconnor at snycorva.bitnet

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Date: Mon, 9 Mar 92 15:24:04 EST
From: Jim Grady <jimg at hpwald.wal.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Lager, Wyeast

In HBD #837 Al writes:
> ...  If there's a bacterial infection, I blame
> environment (dusty basement, etc.) or technique (sanitizing the racking tube
> and then putting it on top of the drier, etc.).  This brings up a point I
> haven't noticed in HBD: I transfer from kettle to primary and primary to
> secondary in my laundry room -- I make it a point to NOT USE THE DRIER
> FOR AT LEAST TWO DAYS BEFORE DOING BEER TRANSFER.  The dust that gets

I made a batch last summer in a rather dirty basement because it was cooler
than the rest of the apartment.  In order to keep dust & such out of my
beer when I was racking, I plugged the air intake and output openings of the
two carboys with a wad of sterile cotton balls.  There was no control for
this experiment but no infection was detected - at least not by the time it
was all gone :-)
- --
Jim Grady	Internet: jimg at wal.hp.com       Phone: (617) 290-3409

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Date: Mon, 9 Mar 92 15:27:02 EST
From: Jim Grady <jimg at hpwald.wal.hp.com>
Subject: Pub Draught Guinness for the rest of us

A friend of mine was back at home in Ireland for Christmas and he said
that there was a bit of ballyhoo about Guinness distributing its Pub
Draught Guinness across the U.S. this June.  If this be true, those of
us who do not regularly travel to San Francisco, Chicago or Baltimore
can get some then.
- --
Jim Grady	Internet: jimg at wal.hp.com  	Phone: (617) 290-3409

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Date: Mon,  9 Mar 1992 19:15:15 -0500 (EST)
From: David Christian Homan <dh10+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Lemon Beer

Excerpts From Captions of internet.homebrew-beer:
 6-Mar-92  Lemon Beer ???????             STROUD at leia.polaroid.com (946)    
> 
>According to "Reliable Receipts", an 1889 compilation of recipes from the
>Ladies of the Central Congregational Church in Newtonville, MA, when it comes
>to beverages, the lemon "surpasses all other fruits."  The following fizzy
>concoction is "reminiscent of a light beer (to keep the gentlemen happy)
>without containing any demon alcohol."
> 
>LEMON BEER
> 
>2 large lemons (about 12 oz total)
>1 gallon water
>2 cups sugar
>1 cake fresh yeast
> 

I had a bad experience with this stuff called "Lemon n Lager" once.  

Let the Brewer Beware.


 - Dave.



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Date: Mon, 9 Mar 92 11:31:11 PST
From: gummitch at techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Yeast, Truth and the American Way

Several people have complained to me about the tone of my recent
comments to Jack Schmidling. I find it a wee bit ironic to be criticized
for flaming Arf, of all people, but I admit to losing my temper. Someone
commented that there was a person on the other end of that flame, a fact
of which I'm well aware. My disagreements with Mr Schmidling range far
and wide, and if one was to read my comments without being aware of
discussions in other newsgroups, I suppose they might seem pretty harsh.

So, I will endeavor to keep my temper under control.

Specifically, in the question of my credibility in re: WYeast and liquid
yeast in general. As Mr Schmidling should be completely aware, from my
earliest postings in HBD I've made no bones about my connection with
Dave Logsdon and his company. Other than my earliest posting (which was
in aid of Schmidling's "research" on nitrosamines), I started out by
asking for requests for inclusions in the WYeast Book of Yeast. I have
repeatedly forwarded questions to and answers from WYeast, and I have
endeavored to keep people on the Digest and in rcb up-to-date on
packaging problems, etc.

Mr Schmidling has previously made a similar accusation: that my boosting
of liquid yeasts was a product of this connection and that I had led
some sort of bandwagon against his stand on dry yeast. I would challenge
Mr. Schmidling to provide some evidence of this, as I have no memory of
ever having such a discussion with him, although I've disagreed with him
on a number of other topics. I was, in fact, only recently aware that
Arf was still using dry yeast. 


As far as Mr Schmidling's opinions on the best way to package yeast, I
would suggest that having the yeast and nutrient in one package was the
whole point! and in fact largely responsible for the success of WYeast.
I am also very aware of the huge amount of effort that Dave is putting
into correcting the problem with his packaging, a problem that was
neither inherent in the design nor of his own doing. He is responding as
any good businessman should, repairing the damage as quickly and
thoroughly as possible.

Basically, the proof is in fact in the pudding. As someone else has
pointed out, virtually every winning beer at the AHA National
Competitions was brewed with a liquid yeast culture. This is partly due,
I think, to the fact that more experienced brewers are more likely to
use liquid cultures, but also to the self-evident fact that liquid
cultures are unlikely to be contaminated.  It is entirely possible that
in a few cases, people's packages from WYeast have been contaminated
(although no one ever seems to be willing to concede that they have
problems with sanitation in their brewery).  This small company ships
out thousands of packages a week, and if one or two people mention
contamination problems, I would think that was a pretty remarkable
record. People who have taken the time to plate out various dry brewing
yeasts have reported various, usually high levels of contamination by
wild yeasts and bacteria. Which is likely to be better in your beer?

On another, related note:

A number of brewers responded to my query about problems with slow
fermentation of WYeast 1056. I spoke with David about this, having had
the same problem myself, and he has done some research. Apparently, 1056
(and one other strain) have a propensity to mutation and some batches of
the yeast have gone out with about 20% mutated yeast cells, which has
weakened the strain. WYeast has added another level of testing to ensure
that such mutated cells don't get into the outgoing product again, and
they are attempting to determine the environmental causes of the
mutation.

On still another, also related note:

WYeast is considering adding some new strains of yeast to their existing
line. These would sell for less money than the current package, and
would NOT include a starter. I reiterate: these strains would be in
addition to the regular line. I told David I believe there was an
interest in such additions, but would like to hear from other brewers.
Are their particular types of yeast that would be of interest (I think
it's safe to say that lambic mixtures would probably not be on the
list)?

- --Jeff Frane (hopefully flameless this time)




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End of HOMEBREW Digest #840, 03/10/92