FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Yeast Culture (Jack Schmidling)
  Re: Bottles (Rob Winters)
  Where can I get hop rhizomes from? (J.N.) Avery <JAVERY at BNR.CA>
  Cat's Meow for VMS (Progress Through Tradition  24-Mar-1992 0936)
  Sparge Water Temp, Dry Hopping (Larry Barello)
  Pacifico Uses STRONG Bottles (David William Bell)
  uncompressing compressed files on VMS (FWALTER)
  George and Laurie Fix's "Vienna" book is out (Tony Babinec)
  All-grain with bags? (Eric Rose)
  Yeast propogating (Conn Copas)
  Malt Longevity (David William Bell)
  Uncompressing in VMS ("MR. DAVID HABERMAN")
  Re: straining the wort (Dances with Workstations)
  Growing hops (Daniel Roman)
  Haze (DAVID KLEIN)
  Decompressing netlib .z flies on VMS. ("DRCV06::GRAHAM")
  Liquid vs. DME (Duncan Moore)
  cloudy beer!!! (MEHTA01)
  wort chiller (Bryan Gros)
  dry hopping alternative (chris campanelli)
  Blended beer (jmaessen)
  Selling homebrew, NA, Hops (Jack Schmidling)


Send submissions to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
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[Please do not send me requests for back issues!]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 92 12:49 CST
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Yeast Culture

 
 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling
 
 Several readers have asked, both here and on usenet, for info on yeast 
 culturing.  No one has responded thus far so, although I know only enough to 
 be dangerous, I will share what I do know.
 
 For openers, I called Yeast Culture Kit as suggested by someone and got 
 nothing but a price list in the mail.  I poured through my library and dusted 
 off some glassware and made a few starts to get the feel.
 
                          Objective
 
 The objective is to isolate a single cell from a beer or culture that has the 
 characteristics desired and encourage this cell to reproduce enough offspring 
 to start a new batch of beer.
 
 This is easier said than done but with reasonable care, luck and modest 
 investment, can be accomplished by the serious home brewer.
 
                           General Program
 
 The general program is to dilute the original culture and spread it over the 
 surface of a growth medium in a petri dish so that individual cells are far 
 enough apart to allow them to grow into visible colonies without touching 
 each other.
 
 A sample from one of these typical colonies is transferred to a test tube 
 containing a growth medium.  When this colony is actively growing, it is 
 considered a pure culture and can be refrigerated for later use or started by 
 covering with beer wort.  When this starter is actively fermenting, it is 
 poured into a larger amount of wort which, when active, is pitched into the 
 beer.
 
                           Basic Assumptions
                
 The procedure makes a number of assumptions which are correct, often enough 
 to allow it to work well enough, to satisfy most requirements.
 
 The first assumption is that one can select the desired strain by looking at 
 colonies on a petri dish.  This is more or less true because the overwhelming 
 majority will be the same, i.e. the dominant strain.  Bacteria, molds and 
 many wild yeasts are obvious and recognizable.
 
 The second assumption is that, while still very small, all round colonies are 
 the progeny of single cells.
 
 The third assumption is that all such colonies, at least in the center are 
 mono clonal or at least mono-cultures and otherwise sterile.
 
 To do the job right, one would have to study the original diluted culture 
 under high magnification and do a presort at that level.  This is revealing 
 and fun.  It also gives an indication of any bacterial contamination in the 
 culture but the rub is marking individual cells and finding them later when 
 they grow into colonies. I currently have no way of doing that.  However, 
 neither do I believe that it is really necessary for the home brewer, 
 although a must for the lab selling selected strains.
 
                             Details
 
 There are many growth media available for the purpose and no doubt someone 
 can recommend a source or recipe for the ideal but for my experiments, I 
 mixed two packets (16 gr) of Knox gelatin with one cup of wort.  After 
 heating and disolving, this is poured into petri dishes and test tubes and 
 sterilized in a pressure cooker for 15 min at 15 lb.
 
 The petri dishes are turned upside down after solidifying and cultured this 
 way to prevent water of condensation from falling on the medium.  The test 
 tubes are cooled on a slant to allow the water to settle on the bottom.  They 
 are also stuffed with cotton before going into the pc.
 
                      Isolating Cells
 
 The first step is to inoculate the petri dish with as diluted a mixture as 
 possible.  The books are full of procedures for doing this but I find the 
 simplest is just as good.  Take a copper wire or thin glass rod and heat 
 several inches in a flame to sterilize.  Dip this, when cool, into a working 
 beer or yeast culture.  Gently drag this across the gelatin in the petri 
 dish, trying not to break the surface.  Next, draw the wire across this line 
 at several points, to further dilute the sample.  Turn the dish over onto the 
 cover and "incubate" at room temp for several days.  Do this on several 
 dishes just for insurance.  As gelatin melts just above room temp, any 
 attempts to rush the process by increasing the temp will prove disasterous.  
 If in a hurry, substitute agar for the gelatin and incubate at 80F.
 
                       Pure Culture
 
 The next step is to visually inspect the surface of the petri dish under low 
 magnification to pick out a "typical" colony that appears to have come from a 
 single cell.  All colonies should be rejected that are any shape other than 
 perfectly round and differ in any way from the majority.
 
 Flame your wire again and after cooling, remove a small sample from the 
 center of the selected colony and rub this on the surface of the medium in a 
 "slant" test tube.  You can do this to several slants, with the same sample, 
 to assure all slants are the same or flame the wire and take a new sample 
 from a different colony.  You can make as many slants as you will need for 
 several months and throw away the petri culture.
 
 You now incubate the slants until most of the surface is covered with the 
 pure colony and then refrigerate them till needed.
 
                                Starting
 
 When needed for use, cover the slant with sterile wort and pitch when ready, 
 i.e fermenting.  For best results, this starter should be used to pitch about 
 a quart of wort, a day or so before brew day.
 
 This process can be used on anything from a packet of Red Star to a bottle of 
 your favorite beer and will produce a pure culture.  There is no guarantee 
 however, that the strain will remain the same for ever because of natural 
 mutation.   As it is my experience that the most common and objectionable 
 contaminents of dry yeast are bacteria and mold, this process will guarantee 
 at least, to eliminate these most serious problems.
 
 I was intrigued by the recent posting on the quality of beer made from Red 
 Star that was re-cultured.  I was also "impressed" by the number of contest 
 winners who use Wyeast and now rise to the challenge of winning the "World's 
 Greatest Brewer" trophy using re-cultured Red Star instead of just joining 
 the Wyeast bandwaggon.
 
 js
 
 
 

Return to table of contents


Date:    Tue, 24 Mar 1992 8:59:11 -0500 (EST)
From: RWINTERS at nhqvax.hq.nasa.gov (Rob Winters)
Subject: Re: Bottles

In HBD #848, dbreiden at mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Danny) writes:

>Back to the nonreturnable bottle issue: Over in r.c.b., I asked for
>stories from people who've had problems using nonreturnable bottles.
>No one has given me any horror stories yet.  Let's just think about it for
>a minute: beer, soda pop, champagne--they're all carbonated, so the bottles
>in which they are sold are meant to handle carbonated beverages. 

I started out with non-deposit bottles, but after a couple of breakages,
I've switched to returnables. (Actually, I'm sick of bottles altogether,
but I digress.) My favorite was the perfect stress fracture where the 
side of the bottle met the bottom. Sure wish I hadn't set *that* case on
top of the humidifier! Commercial beers are fermented out and then charged
with a precise amount of CO2. Therefore, the brewery can make the bottle
just thick enough to handle that amount of stress and not much more. 
HB'ers fermenting in the bottle don't have anywhere near that kind of 
precision (at least, apparently, I don't). Also the no-deposits aren't
very rugged. I was worried about a bottle "on the edge" ending up as a 
handful of glass when someone was trying open it. Since I didn't want to 
be doing that "w" word, I'm collecting other sorts of bottles.

Champagne bottles are something else again. Decent champagne is fermented
in the bottle, and is subjected to higher pressures than beer, thus the 
bottles make good murder weapons. Many a ship's bow has succumbed to the
bottle that was trying to christen it, instead of the other way around!
Skip the Andre' bottles, but the others are keepers. I especially like
Cordon Negro bottles, because they let no light in. Of course, when you
bottle beer in champagne bottles, you are committing yourself to drinking
two beers at a sitting, ... but SACRIFICES MUST BE MADE!!!  ;-)

Rob

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Date:       24 Mar 92 09:24:00 EST
From: Joel (J.N.) Avery <JAVERY at BNR.CA>
Subject:    Where can I get hop rhizomes from?

I posted an article a couple of weeks ago, asking about rhizome
sources in Canada, and advice about growing hops in Canada.
Judging from my responses (zero), I'd guess that there are
not that many hop growers in my part of the country, and there
are no sources of hop rhizomes either.

So, I'll expand my search, and consider hop sources from the
US.  Do any Canadians know what kind of restrictions there are
on bringing rhizomes into the country?  And where can I get
them in the States?

Our growing season here is usually mid May to late September,
with a good amount of rain.  Is this what hops require to grow?

I was planning on planting them on the south side of my house
where they can grow about 10 or 12 feet high.  Is this enough?

I assume that the wild rabbits around my house would eat them
in a flash (just like the rest of my garden).

All advice will be appreciated.

Thanks,
Joel

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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 92 06:36:07 PST
From: Progress Through Tradition 24-Mar-1992 0936 <donham at browny.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Cat's Meow for VMS


>Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1992 18:14 EST
>From: Frank Tutzauer <COMFRANK at ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu>
>Subject: VMS decompression of Z files--help!
>
>Ok, great.  The Cats Meow 2 is out.  But somebody needs to help us VMS
>folks.  I know, I know, the rest of the world is UNIX.  But I (and some
>other folks I'm sure) are stuck on VMS.  We can ftp to mthvax just fine.
>We can grab the files just fine.  BUT WE CAN'T DECOMPRESS THEM.  We don't
>have the UNIX utilities, and even if we did I wouldn't be surprised if 
>some glitches didn't arise.  UUDECODE doesn't work.  Trying to grab the
>files sans the Z extenstion doesn't work.  Praying, chanting, and cussing
>doesn't work.............  In the months and months I've been reading
>the HBD and using USENET, I've seen the question of how does a VMS user
>decompress the UNIX files arise several times.  But I've never never never
>seen an answer.  Somebody help.  And POST your answer, so all of us VMS types
>can profit from it.
>
>thanks,
>- --frank

'Tis indeed a pain to talk to those heathen U*X sites. I guess we
can't all attain enlightenment in this world... :^)

Here's how I pulled the CAT2 files from the archive:

	o FTP the .PS.Z.UUE files from the archive. We can't do 'real'
	  FTP from inside the company, so I used FTPMAIL.

	o Assemble and decode the UUENCODEd files. I think I grabbed
	  my decoder from DECWRL::"/pub/VMS". I'll send you the C source
	  code in a following message (it's short).

	o Untar the decoded file using COMPRESS_VMS.EXE, available for
	  FTP from:

		DECWRL::"/pub/VMS/compress_vms.exe"
                        164  10-MAY-1990 18:58:06.00  (RWED,R,R,R)

	o Massage the resultant PostScript files a bit to get rid of
	  any 'letter' commands. These cause our LPS20s to barf.

Let me know if you have any trouble grabbing the files from DECWRL. I
believe that the site is available for anonymous ftp from outside DEC.
If it isn't, I'll put together a VMS SHARE kit of COMPRESS_VMS.EXE and
mail it to you.




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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 92 07:12:38 PST
From: polstra!larryba at uunet.UU.NET (Larry Barello)
Subject: Sparge Water Temp, Dry Hopping

I think that the ideal sparge water temp needs to be determined
by experimentation.  I use 185f water and my final runoff is around
150-155f.  Just for yuks, I stuffed a thermometer into the top of my mash
near the end of sparging the last batch.  The temp was around 160 or so.
Since the idea is to have as hot a water as possible to leach out the
sugars but not so hot as to leach out the tannins in the husk.  Something
between 130-170f seems Ok.

I dry hop by dumping pellets into the secondary.  Usually that starts 
fermentation up again (yeast stick to the hop particles and float around
keeping themselves naturally "aroused" (pant pant...)).  When all the hops 
stuff finally sinks to the bottom I *know* that fermentation is completed.
Racking the beer off the hops/sediment is no big deal at that point.

 - Larry Barello

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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 92 9:56:42 CST
From: David William Bell <bell at convex.csd.uwm.edu>
Subject: Pacifico Uses STRONG Bottles


Hi All,
I just wanted to put in $0.02 worth on bottle choice.  I
used Pacifico bottles (Mexican Import) last weekend and
noticed they were easily as strong as returnables.  In 
Wisconsin we have no problem finding returnables, but
Pacifico tastes better than typical domestic at around
$4.25 per six-pack.

For the sake of the debate, IMHO, I wouldn't use screw caps
because someone earlier mentioned that the little screw guides
can come off in your beer.  No Refill bottles (i.e. Pacifico)
seem perfectly reasonable to use.

Cheers,
___________________________________________________________
|                                                          |
|    David Bell - bell at convex.csd.uwm.edu                  |
|    Department of Political Science                       |
|    University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee		   |
|						           |
| Some, loth to be espi'd, Some start in at the back side, |
| Over the hedge and pale, And all for the good ale.       |
|				- John Skelton		   |
|__________________________________________________________|

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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1992 11:21 EST
From: FWALTER at astro.sunysb.edu
Subject: uncompressing compressed files on VMS

Greetings, fellow VMS users,

The folks at Kitt Peak National Observatory have developed a VMS executable to
uncompress compressed UNIX files. You can get it via anonymous FTP from
TUCANA.TUC.NOAO.EDU. Log on in the usual manner. 
 - cd util
 - binary
 - get compress_vms.exe
 - exit

You need to define the following VMS symbol:
   UNCOMPRESS :== $[yourdirectory]COMPRESS_VMS.EXE UNCOMPRESS
   - you need to specify the directory unless you write it into SYSEXE 

The extension of the file to be uncompressed should be .ps_z

I do not know any more about the utility, but I have used it successfully.

"UNIX is as elegant and intuitive as IBM JCL" - A. Warnock

Fred

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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 92 10:35:59 CST
From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec)
Subject: George and Laurie Fix's "Vienna" book is out

The book is out and it's good!  Maybe we can get George or Laurie to
comment on a number of things here.  

One question, if you are reading:  can you comment on what Lovibond
ratings your "light" and "dark" German crystal malts are in your
recipes?  

Thanks.

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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 92 12:04:30 EST
From: Eric Rose <rose at aecom.yu.edu>
Subject: All-grain with bags?

> > Hi everyone,
> > 
> > I'm a happy beginner/intermediate homebrewer--just bottle my fourth batch.
> > I've read the section in the NCJOHB on all-grain techniques and heck, it
> > doesn't seem to hard at all!  But I have a question for you more sage and
> > experienced folks.
> > 
> > It seems to me that a lot of the complication of all-grain brewing, namely
> > complicated lautering procedures, could be avoided by simply putting the
> > milled grains in grain bags during mashing.  After completion of mashing,
> > the bags could simply be lifted out of the mash-tun (which could just be your
> > brewpot).  Sparging could be done through the bags, perhaps suspended in a
> > strainer, one at a time, a portion of the sparge water for each of the five or
> > six grain bags it might take to hold a batch's worth of wet grain.  So, you
> > could mash in your brewpot and then proceed straight through with such a sparge
> > process to the boil without ever transferring your wort into another container!
> > 
> > I can thing of two possible problems with this-
> > 
> > 1. Mashing with the grain in grain bags might not allow adequate mixing of
> > water with grain--maybe this would affect the mash process (grains in interior
> > might not convert as fast as those in exterior portion of bag?)
> > 
> > 2. Other solid products of mashing, e.g. trub, would not be removed from the
> > wort as they would in the standard lautering process.  However, if the wort is
> > strained from the brewpot to the fermenter, it will be removed then.  It's not
> > going to affect the boil, right?
> > 
> > 
> > My hunch is that these two possible complications would not occur or would
> > not affect the beer significantly.  However, maybe there are other things
> > I'm not taking into account.  Is this a bright idea that will cushion my
> > entry into the daunting world of all-grain brewing, or will the gods punish
> > me for my arrogance should I attempt this technique.  Perhaps most importantly,
> > has anyone tried it?
          ***************************************
          *                                     *
          * Eric Rose                           *
          * Albert Einstein College of Medicine *
          * 1300 Morris Park Avenue             *
          * Bronx, NY 10461 USA                 *
          *                                     *
          * INTERNET:  rose at aecom.yu.edu        *
          *                                     *
          ***************************************

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Date: Mon, 23 Mar 92 11:46:28 GMT
From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas at loughborough.ac.uk>
Subject: Yeast propogating

I read with interest the description of Leistad's book. Could someone give
me a better idea of how technical it is before I order it ? I'm basically
looking for something which goes beyond the Zymurgy yeast issue and discussions
of how to streak out cultures. For example, use of diagnostic media to assess
the identity of contaminants. Microscopy. Media for maintenance as opposed to
growth. etc.

- -- 
Loughborough University of Technology          tel : (0509)263171  ext 4164
Computer-Human Interaction Research Centre     fax : (0509)610815      
Leicestershire  LE11 3TU           e-mail - (Janet):C.V.Copas at uk.ac.lut   
G Britain                 (Internet):C.V.Copas%lut.ac.uk at nsfnet-relay.ac.uk


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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 92 11:52:52 -0600
From: David William Bell <bell at convex.csd.uwm.edu>
Subject: Malt Longevity


   Hi everyone.
   I finished brewing a batch of beer and have a couple cups of malt 
leftover.  How long will this last?  Ive got it in the bag it came in.
this bag is inside a tupperware type container. The container is in 
the freezer.
   
   I see several recipes calling for small amounts of fermentables and
assume there must be a practical, standard way of keeping ingredients
fresh.  Just a curious thought.

David Bell
bell at convex.csd.uwm.edu

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Date: 24 Mar 92 09:59:00 PST
From: "MR. DAVID HABERMAN" <HABERMAND at scivx1>
Subject: Uncompressing in VMS

I found a source for VMS utilities such as ZOO, ARC, UUENCODE, COMPRESS, etc. 
You can FTP anonymously to OAK.OAKLAND.EDU and change to the pub/misc/vaxvms
directory.  The compress/decompress program is called:  lzcompress.share.  It
is a COM file which you then run to unpackage all the parts including the C
source.  It comes with procedures for compiling and linking the code.  If you
have any problems, let me know.  I had to remove the ",clib/opt" part of the
link command.  It seems to work OK.  I will not be able to respond to any mail
until 01APR but my mailbox will still be here.  There is a chance I could
login Thur. or Fri. this week.

 -
David A. Haberman     <habermand at pl-edwards.af.mil>

Well they worked their will on John Barleycorn, but he lived to tell the tale.
For they pour him out of an old brown jug, and they call him home brewed ale!


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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 92 13:09:52 EST
From: Dances with Workstations <buchman at marva2.ENET.dec.com>
Subject: Re: straining the wort

> I`ve had good luck straining wort while it`s still in the brewpot.  I use a
> medium size food strainer, which has about an eight inch handle.  I simply run
> it back and forth through the wort, dumping it out as necessary.  I have found
> that I can remove most of the hops/whatever in a couple minutes.  Then I
> continue boiling the wort for a few more minutes to kill any beasties that may
> have been on the strainer.

Unfortunately, boiling a few more minutes will probably drive off all finishing
hops aroma and much of the hops flavor. Just sanitize the strainer ahead of
time like everything else. The straining spoon we use to stir the wort is
also good for scooping out spent grains and hops leaves.
			Jim Buchman

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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 92 13:10:55 EST
From: tix!roman at uunet.UU.NET (Daniel Roman)
Subject: Growing hops

About a half dozen digests ago I posted about my hop failures when I
ordered hops from the west coast (Oregon).  I'm on the east coast.
Well, my replacement hops which I received for free from the same place
as last year because of their failure to grow arrived last friday and
there was a big difference in their condition when I opened the box.
Last year the roots were very dry and the package was very light.  This
year the box was heavier because the moss that the roots (and they roots
themselves) was moist still.  Temperatures are a lot lower this year
than last and I guess last years hops did not survive the trip by truck.

Of course I can't plant them yet because this year we have about 6
inches of snow still on the ground and the ground is frozen so I've got
them in the fridge.  Should I keep them moist by sprinkling a little
water on them every few days?  They are wrapped in moss, surrounded by
paper, in the shipping box, in the fridge.  With the crazy weather we've
been having in NJ I don't know when it is going to be safe to plant
them.
______________________________________________________________________
Dan Roman                              Internet:  roman_d at timeplex.com

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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1992 11:17 MST
From: DAVID KLEIN <PAKLEIN at CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Haze


  In my last two batches (pale ales) I have had a problem with a haze in
the bottle that takes up to 2 months to settle out. This is a recent
problem and in the past my beers have become clear within a couple of weeks.
The haze does taste like yeast, and thus gives an off flavor 'til its gone.

   SO, I plan to try geletin in my next batch, which is new for my beer.
What I don't understand though, is if I add it before botteling, and if it
removes yeast and other heavy organic types, will there be enough yeast left
around for bottle conditioning? Has anyong tried this before, and how has it
worked for them?

   Also, if anyone has any other ideas for the source of the haze your input
is welcome. For what it matters, the yeast for the cloudy beers has been
london ale (wyeast) and I don't recall the other. Both have been all grain,
though I have brewed all grain without this haze before. The only conditioning
has been a bit 'o irish moss in the boiler. The cloudiness has a combo yeasty,
baking soda taste to it.

  Thanx
 Dave

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Date: 24 Mar 92 14:14:00 EDT
From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <graham%drcv06.decnet at drcvax.af.mil>
Subject: Decompressing netlib .z flies on VMS.

Any DECUS tape for the past several years, in the [VAX000.work] directory 
has a set of programs beginning with LZxxx.

Both the executables and sources are there for two forms of the compress 
and decompress program.  I have successfully used the executables directly 
off the tape to decompress all of the .z files I have copied from the 
Netlib.  (That includes ALL of the archives.)

There are two decompressers, like I said.  lzdcmp.exe and lzdcm.exe.  I 
find that the lzdcm.exe works, it did for the Cat-2.    The other one 
errors out.  

The sources involve about nine files, so I can't really offer to send them, 
wish I could.  Decus tapes are pretty easy to come by, especially old ones.

Dan


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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1992 17:19:04 -0500
From: ukcy at sunyit.edu (Kevin Yager)

On Mar 18, 16:17, tim at MTNET2.WVNET.EDU wrote:
} Subject: Distilling
} I am in search of information about distilling, other that the book Lore of 
} Still Building.
} Will beer kegs do for a cooker ?

I suppose that a beer keg might work.  The problem would be cleaning it after
you have cooked a batch in it.  Keep in mind that there will be stuff cooked to
the inside of it.  It seems like the keg would be a pain unless you modified
it so that it had a lid you could remove and then put back on when you started
cooking.  This would allow for quick filling and emptying and easy cleaning.

} What is the ideal temp. ?

I'm not clear if you have the book "Lore of Still Building" or if you are
looking for it.  If you have the book it gives the boiling point of alcohol
( around 175 or so degrees fa)  keep above this temp but as close to it as 
possible.  If you are looking for the book send me your address and I'll have my
local homebrew shop send you a catalog.  He stocks them.

} What about a thump keg  or a dry keg ?

A thumper will give you a little higher concentration and may help to 
condense out fusil oils before it gets to your final product.

} What should be done to insure the purity of the distillate  ?

The distillate may contain concentrations of all of the stuff that was in 
the wort.  A good rule is not to distill anything that
you would be afraid to drink.  Stay away from using lead or solder when
constucting your still.  It's best to stick to copper, stainless steel and
glass.  Make sure your copper isn't green.  The green stuff is poison.

A kind of yucky trick but a totaly functional one is to seal any cracks,
joints, or leaks that your still may have with bread dough.  That's right!

Just take a slice of bread and run a little water on it and mush it up.  
Stick this stuff over any joints or cracks ( like were your pipe goes in and
out of your thumper).  This stuff will dry and make a seal.  It also gives
you some flexibility.  You won't have to solder anything together.  And
if you screw up and some presure builds up someplace the dough will start
leaking instead of your still  blowing up!!

}-- End of excerpt from tim at MTNET2.WVNET.EDU

Of course this is all purely hypothetical. ;)

                            Kevin

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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1992 17:20:49 -0500
From: ukcy at sunyit.edu (Kevin Yager)

On Mar 18, 16:17, tim at MTNET2.WVNET.EDU wrote:
} Subject: Distilling
} I am in search of information about distilling, other that the book Lore of 
} Still Building.
} Will beer kegs do for a cooker ?

I suppose that a beer keg might work.  The problem would be cleaning it after
you have cooked a batch in it.  Keep in mind that there will be stuff cooked to
the inside of it.  It seems like the keg would be a pain unless you modified
it so that it had a lid you could remove and then put back on when you started
cooking.  This would allow for quick filling and emptying and easy cleaning.

} What is the ideal temp. ?

I'm not clear if you have the book "Lore of Still Building" or if you are
looking for it.  If you have the book it gives the boiling point of alcohol
( around 175 or so degrees fa)  keep above this temp but as close to it as 
possible.  If you are looking for the book send me your address and I'll have my
local homebrew shop send you a catalog.  He stocks them.

} What about a thump keg  or a dry keg ?

A thumper will give you a little higher concentration and may help to 
condense out fusil oils before it gets to your final product.

} What should be done to insure the purity of the distillate  ?

The distillate may contain concentrations of all of the stuff that was in 
the wort.  A good rule is not to distill anything that
you would be afraid to drink.  Stay away from using lead or solder when
constucting your still.  It's best to stick to copper, stainless steel and
glass.  Make sure your copper isn't green.  The green stuff is poison.

A kind of yucky trick but a totaly functional one is to seal any cracks,
joints, or leaks that your still may have with bread dough.  That's right!

Just take a slice of bread and run a little water on it and mush it up.  
Stick this stuff over any joints or cracks ( like were your pipe goes in and
out of your thumper).  This stuff will dry and make a seal.  It also gives
you some flexibility.  You won't have to solder anything together.  And
if you screw up and some presure builds up someplace the dough will start
leaking instead of your still  blowing up!!

}-- End of excerpt from tim at MTNET2.WVNET.EDU

Of course this is all purely hypothetical. ;)

                            Kevin

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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 92 13:13:57 PST
From: duncan at informix.com (Duncan Moore)
Subject: Liquid vs. DME

Hello,
Excuse my ignorance one again, yet another begining question.

Many of the recipes in the Cats Meow and other sources reference
Extract, without specifying whether it is DME or Syrup.  Are 
Syrups and drys equivalent pound for pound? Is it assumed all
extract recipes call for one or the other when it isn't specified?

Ex. Brittish Bitter from meow I:  5 to 6 # Alexander's pale malt
	extract...

	Thanks,

	Duncan



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Date:    Tue, 24 Mar 1992 17:52:00 -0600 (CST)
From: MEHTA01 at SWMED.UTEXAS.EDU
Subject: cloudy beer!!!


	Hello. i've made 5-6 all-grain beers now, and while they all come
out tasting OK, (some even WOW!! 8-) ) i have two major problems that may
be associated. 
	1) The mashing process 1-5 hrs. at 68 C almost never (except for the
		very first time) has gone to complete conversion. i have to 
		usually give up out of sheer exhasution (from drinking too
		much Homebrew waiting for conversion). i stir every 5-10 
		minutes and have at least 5 lbs. 2-row Klages with the 
		other grains (Black, Roasted, Crystal, flaked etc..) to 
		ensure a good amount of enzymes. Some times i even ended up
		adding 2 spoons of amylase, with no effect. i use about 1
		quart of water per lb. of grain. 

		Please let me know of similar experiences or solutions...

	2) My beer is often very cloudy untiul bottling and only clears up
		in the bottle. Bubbling has usually ceased (almost) before
		bottling. 
		After mashing i sparge (2 gallons for 6-8 lbs grain) at about 70		-80 C, rerunning the sparge water over the bed 5-6 times..
		After 30 mins of boiling i cool and pitch. Fermentation is 
		quite standard, but tends to proceed slowly for a long time 
		(which is not unusual, i think). But even when fermentation is
		complete (SG 1.01-1.02) the beer does not clear.

	3) Thought i could slip in a third one since you are this far...
		WHat exactly is the hot break and the cold break. i mean, 
\		physically what do you see? 

		Thank./

Thanks to all who spare a moment to answer. 
Shreefal Mehta
mehta01 at utsw.swmed.utexas.edu

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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 92 16:12:17 PST
From: bgros at sensitivity.berkeley.edu (Bryan Gros)
Subject: wort chiller

I just bought 50 feet of 3/8 in O.D. copper tubing at the hardware
store for $20.  I plan to coil it for a wort chiller, but what do I
do with the ends?  Right now I think I'll put the coil in a bucket of
ice water and run the hot wort through it into another bucket.

So what do I do?  do I just get some 3/8 in I.D. plastic tubing to put
on both ends?  If so, how do I start the siphon?  If I attached some
sort of mini-funnel to the start of the chiller, I could fill the 
plastic tube with water and stick one end in the boiling wort and one
end in the funnel.

Also, do I do anything special before I use it the first time?
Thanks.
                                          - Bryan

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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 92 16:02 CST
From: akcs.chrisc at vpnet.chi.il.us (chris campanelli)
Subject: dry hopping alternative

     An alternative to dry hopping for aroma is using a hop tea.  When
you boil your water and priming sugar, remove from heat, add your
aromatic hops and let them steep for afew minutes.  Use a small gravy
strainer to remove the hop matter and bottle/keg as normal.  Allowing the
hop aromatics to bypass the fermentation stage is another way of
ensureing a strong hop aroma without the worry of plugging and stopping
of your fermenter.  I have used this method quite afew times and have
been quite satisfied.  There is one catch.  You will notice that your
beer has become cloudy once in the bottle.  Not to worry, the beer will
clear up within the usual aging period.  

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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 92 20:04:35 EST
From: jmaessen at Athena.MIT.EDU
Subject: Blended beer

In HBD #848, abirenbo at rigel.hac.com (Aaron Birenboim) writes:
>   In his trippel he uses multiple yeast strains.  For consistency,
> he splits the batch for fermentation, and blends at bottling.

I've heard that this blending technique is used for most really good
wines; this is the first time I've ever heard of beer being blended,
however.  Does anyone know of others who have tried this/tried it
themselves/know of other blended brands of beer?  What effect is being
strived for, and how does blending achieve that effect?  This has piqued
my interest...
						Jan-Willem Maessen
						jmaessen at athena.mit.edu

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Date: Tue, 24 Mar 92 21:43 CST
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Selling homebrew, NA, Hops

 
 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling
 
 >From: abirenbo at rigel.hac.com (Aaron Birenboim)
 
 > He makes several Belgian style ales in his basement, and sells them in 
 liter bottles at several Ft. Collins and Boulder liquor stores.
 
 >His beer is priced competituvely with other u-breweries,
 and a great bargain for that price.
 
 As one who enjoys brewing to the extent that I give most of my stuff away to 
 make room for the next batch, this idea has intrigued me.  I can see how one 
 could recover the costs of materials but I can't see any reasonable price 
 that would cover the labor involved, particularly on a wholesale level.
 
 Doesn't one need something like a liquor license to sell beer?  They are 
 impossible to get in places like Chicago.  How about the liquor tax?  How 
 much is he getting for a liter and what is the liquor store selling them for?
 
 >From: "John Cotterill" <johnc at hprpcd.rose.hp.com>
 >Does anyone out there have a summary of the non alcohol beer thread from a
 couple of months ago?
 
 Here is the original article.  I will up date it as soon as I hear from Jean 
 Hunter who is running some tests on samples I sent to her.
 
 
                NON-ALCOHOLIC BEER
 
 Everytime I mention NA beer, people give me funny looks and ask questions 
 like, "why would anyone want to do that to homebrew?"
 
 Having been a victim of my hobby some years ago, I drank nothing but 
 Kingsbury for almost 10 years.  The thought of going back to that is all the 
 motivation I need.  I have been limiting myself to one 16 oz glass of beer, 
 per day for a couple of years and I no longer consider myself a recovering 
 alcoholic.
 
 However, making beer is so much fun and hombrew tastes so good that rather 
 then cheat, I have been experimenting with making NA homebrew.
 
 Y'all will no doubt remember when I started asking questions about measuring 
 alcohol in beer.  That was about the time I started.  I have made six batches 
 and think the process works well enough to publish.  
 
 So far, I have only produced one gallon batches but I have 7 gals clearing 
 now that will be my first full scale batch.  Here is the process......
 
 When you have your next batch ready to bottle, syphon off one gallon before 
 priming.  Put this in a kettle with (2) tablespoons of sugar and bring the 
 temp up to 170 F with the lid off.  Let it cool, uncovered until the temp 
 gets below 150 F.  Then cover it and cool it to room temp as quickly as 
 possible.  I put it in a sink with running water.
 
 When room temp, add 1/8 tsp Champaign yeast.  Let it sit for a while to 
 disolve and disperse, then stir well with a sanitized spoon.
 
 Pour the brew into you favorite bottles and cap.  I always include at least 
 one plastic bottle to monitor cabonation.  When the plastic bottle is hard, 
 refrigerate them all.  This usually take no more than a few days at room 
 temp.  I have no idea how long this stuff will keep in or out of the fridge 
 but time will tell.
 
 What does it taste like?  You'll have to try it youself to find out.
 
 Just for drill, I took an early version down to a Chicago Beer Club meeting 
 and had it judged blind.  I then gave them a bottle of the beer it was made 
 from as a comparison.
 
 What did the judges have to say:
 
 In general, "lousy beer" but they could not tell the difference and had not 
 the slightest clue that one had no alcohol.
 
 Unfortunately, that batch was the one I have previously described as clovey 
 (they said bananas) and you can't make bad beer, good by taking out the 
 alcohol.
 
 I was toying with the idea of sending NA as my entry in the Usenet Brewoff 
 Challenge just for fun but decided that it was too much trouble for a 
 practical joke.
 
 >From: Jay Hersh <hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu>
 >Jack said>
  >>It is obvious from reading the many and varied responses to my question, 
 that the tastes are highly variable, to the point that ale can be made to 
 taste like lager and vice versa.
 
 >I think I'm missing something, please explain...
 
 I don't know what you are missing other than the rest of the thread and the 
 email I received but someone made the claim that to find out the difference 
 between ale and lager, one should go out an d buy a few bottles of each to 
 taste the difference.
 
 The rest of the thread pointed to the fact that there is such variability in 
 each style that the experiment would be useless.
 
 >From: STROUD <STROUD%GAIA at leia.polaroid.com>
 
 >Jack, what do you sparge in?  
 
 I sparge in the same kettle that I mash in.  A 32 qt enamel canner with a 
 spiggot and screen as described in "EASYMASH".  (email to arf for details)
 
 >And do you do a mashout?
 
 Yes.  15 min at 175F.
 
 >Lots of homebrewers use insulated igloo coolers that are very efficient in
 retaining heat.
 
 I understand but it should be obvious by now that I am on a crusade to 
 abolish plastic breweries.
 
 >From: mccamljv at ldpfi.dnet.dupont.com
  
  >       I just received my first HOP rhizomes in the mail yesterday
         (3/19). I bought three types; Saaz, Eroica, and Hersbrucker from
         AGS in IL. (800) 444-2837 in case anyone wants it.
 
 
 
 I hope you plan to keep them well separated or you will never know which is 
 which after they start sending out their own rhizomes.
 
 >        My question is this, What (qty. wise) can I expect to harvest off
         of these vines in the first season??
 
 Not much.  Enough for one batch if you are real lucky.
 
      >   Also, has anyone out there successfully nurtured hop plants in
         an indoor setting, not a greenhouse but an apt.?? I am not
         planning on being at my current address for very long and I had
         in mind a big pot with a trimmed down trellis setup. Any tips??
 
 
 I bought two plants from the same source and spent the winter turning them 
 into six by rooting cuttings from the plants.
 
 If you mean growing them indors for flower production, forget it.  They need 
 full sunlight and lots of room.
 
 js
 

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #849, 03/25/92