FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Anderson Valley brewpub visit (Jerome Rainey - consult)
  Clearing, Leaker, KUDOS, Ale (Jack Schmidling)
  Lienenkuegal brewery tours? (Greg Roody - DTN 237-7122 - MaBell 508-841-7122)
  Beer Color Prediction Algorithm (darrylri)
  Liquid crystal thermometers ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Aquarium thermometers/hydrometers -- NOT! (wkb)
  Rehydrating Yeast (Jack Schmidling)
  VMS conversion of UNIX files--summary (Frank Tutzauer)
  Fish fryers and gauges (matth)
  Plastic Carboys (yoost)
  Riverdale, MD supplier address request. (CSGARDNER)
  Propensity Lager Difficulties (brians)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #853 (March 31, 1992) (Tim Rushing)
  protein rest a necessity? (mcnally)
  bottling question (Kenneth Haney)
  re: John's Monster, brewing w/sugar  (Carl West)
  Mail order prices (Bryan Gros)
  wort chilling (Bryan Gros)
  no-alcohol beer factoids (Tony Babinec)
  Re: Off to Deuchtland. (The Rider)
  What kind of hops do I want? (J.N.) Avery <JAVERY at BNR.CA>
  Jack's Grain Mill (George Fix)
  Esters and typos (George Fix)
  Bottle Fermenting Temps (A.D. Williams)
  kettles and other (Nick Zentena)
  re: chimay white (DBA-CRI)"


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[Please do not send me requests for back issues!]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 30 Mar 92 15:44:21 -0800
From: jpr at gene.com (Jerome Rainey - consult)
Subject: Anderson Valley brewpub visit


I visited the Anderson Valley Brewery in Booneville, California, this Sunday
(3/29/92). Here is a review and a description of their brewing process, as
described on a tour of the brewery.

The brewpub is excellent, serving their beers (natch) and terrific food.  They
had all the ingredients for their brews posted on the wall next to the bar. I
can provide a list for anyone who's interested.

They store their 2-row pale malt in the 25 K-gal tank out front, and funnel it
in for brewing as needed.  A batch is either 310 or 620 gallons.  Their brew
kettles and fermentation vessels are 400 and 900 gallons, for single and double
batches, respectively.

They begin mashing at 5 PM, and allow the mash to sit at temperature all night.
The next morning, the brewer begins the drain/sparge, which takes about 90
minutes.  The sweet wort is transferred to the brew kettle, where it takes about
30 minutes to bring 310 gallons of wort to a boil, using a propane burner that
provides 880 KBTU per hour.  The hops are added every 30 minutes, and the boil
itself lasts 90 minutes.  They filter off the whole hops as the wort comes out
of the kettle.  The wort is cooled with a fancy counter-current heat
exchanger and oxygenated with bottled oxygen.

They use Whitbread ale yeast to ferment all their beers. They buy it in 1-kg
foil-wrapped blocks, use it for 15-17 generations (5 batches per generation),
then buy fresh again.  Fermentation takes place in a cool room with
freon-jacketed fermenters.  They are roughly cylindrical, with cone-shaped
bases and a valve at the bottom to drain off the trub/yeast sediment.  Primary
fermentation is at 65F, then the sediment is drained and a 55F secondary begins.
They use blow-off tubes which lead to 5-gallon buckets of bleach water.  All
four fermenters were going full blast while we we were shown around, and one
even had thick brown foam surging all over the floor from the blow-off bucket.
After the secondary, the beer is chilled to 2F and run through a
horizontal-plate diatomaceous earth filter to reduce chill haze.  The tour
guide stressed that they do not sterile-filter, which they feel would remove
too much color and flavor.

   The filtered beer is transferred to a refrigerated room into conditioning and
maturation tanks, where it is carbonated under pressure with CO2 tanks.  They
use a neat device called a "Zahm-meter" (sp?) to test for proper carbonation
level.  It's a little canister with a pressure gauge on the side that you fill
up with beer and then shake for 5 minutes.  You check the thermometer and the
pressure and compare the readings to a chart to see how well-carbonated the beer
is.

The beer for the pub is fed directly from the cold room to the taps upstairs.
They bottle using a 1946 vintage 12-head counter-pressure filler, which one of
the owners picked up while visiting Milwaukee for a brewing convention.  He
saw it sitting outside one of the big breweries and bought it for a song.  It
has allowed them to go from bottling 56 cases per day to a max of 215 cases per
day, although they still use a hand labeler, so to label 215 cases takes two
more days .

Their beer is distributed to most of CA, and also NC, RI, VA, NH, NY, DC and
recently, CO, NV, and WA.  They just shipped their first 750 cases to Colorado
in a refrigerated truck from...Coors!  It had just dropped off a load of Silver
Bullet in the Bay Area and took back 26 pallets of Anderson Valley brew.  Hmm,
I think Colorado got the better deal, somehow.

The gift shop sells t-shirts and stuff, but also a couple of books on brewpubs:
"On Tap: The guide to US brewpubs," by Steve Johnson (WBR Publications,
Clemson) and "Brewery Adventures in the Wild West," by Jack Erickson (Redbrick
Press, Reston, VA).  You can also get a copy of "Boontling: An American lingo,"
by Charles C. Addams (U. of Texas Press).  This book will help you figure
out what the weird names of AV brews mean.  "Boontling" is a peculiar local
jargon which the locals have used in the past to confuse outsiders and now use
as tourist material.  For example, their "Barney Flats" oatmeal stout refers to
the Hendy Woods Redwood state park nearby, and "Poleeko Gold" pale ale is
named after Philo, the next town down the road ("Poleeko" == Philo in "Boont").

 -Jerome Rainey (jpr at gene.com)


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Date: Mon, 30 Mar 92 18:51 CST
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Clearing, Leaker, KUDOS, Ale

 
 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling
   
 >From: mcnally at wsl.dec.com
 
 >In HBD 851, Jack Schmidling writes:
 
  >>     They can argue all they want but gelatine works like magic.  I have
         never made a batch without secondary fermentation and I never had a
         clearing problem till I turned to all grain.
 
 >Perhaps there IS a problem with your sparge technique, Jack.  I always
 brew all-grain, and I've never had a haze problem (except for the one
 time I used Irish Moss, ironically). 
 
 You will note that I said nothing about "haze".  I said a clearing problem.  
 Simply put, it takes longer to clear all-grain beer than extract beer.  
 Extract beer clears within a few days in the secondary and all-grain takes up 
 to a month.
 
 > You might, just in the interest of science, try lowering your sparge water 
 temperature on a batch and see if that helps the clarity.
 
 I am not opposed to trying anything, particularly if it makes life easier.  
 However, from my previous posting it would be suspected that if I lowered the 
 sprage water temp to the recommended 170F, the grain would be only luke warm 
 and it is hard to see how this would help.
 
 >From: kjohnson at argon.berkeley.edu (Ken Johnson)
 
 >I just hooked up the old tap to the keg and beer line to the faucet.  After
 pressurizing the keg, I noticed that my faucet leaks.  Does anyone know
 how to fix a leaky faucet (standard industrial beer dispenser (brass))?
 
 If you are referring to Hoff Stevens, they are easy to take apart and clean 
 or replace the faulty part.  It is just a ball in socket affair that is 
 pretty obvious.  I had a leaker recently and sadly it was the old brass one.  
 The newer ones have plastic parts inside and probably never leak.
 
 >From: Fred Condo <CONDOF at CGSVAX.CLAREMONT.EDU>
 
 >This was my first attempt at all-grain brewing. All the books say you need
 at least 8 to 10 gallons of boiling capacity, but I am limited to my
 6-gallon kettle. So, I just compensated by using extra grain. From 10
 pounds of Klages malt, I got about 5 1/2 gallons of 1050 wort.
 
 There is no law that says you have to boil it all at once.  You can keep 
 adding wort as it boils down and boil a zillion gallons in a 6 gal kettle.
 If you boil for the minimum recommended time, you evaporate at least a gallon 
 of liquid.  If you don't evaporate any liquid, you are not boiling long 
 enough to extract the hops and do all the other chemestry required of the 
 brew.
 
 >To those extract brewers who are scared of all-grain brewing (as I was), I
 say: FEAR NOT! It is *MUCH* easier than I thought it would be, and it adds
 only a couple of hours to the brewing process. I have two batches of
 all-grain pale ale in the other room happily fermenting away. I can harldy
 wait to taste and compare with my extract brews!
 
 Congratulations!  Welcome to the club of real homebrewers.   Let us know how 
 they compare.  I suspect you will never go back again.  It's a one way 
 street.
 
 >It was an almost magical feeling to see and taste the mash turn from bland
 and starchy to golden and sweet.
 
 It's better than going to church.
 
 >From: mfetzer at ucsd.edu (The Rider)
 
 > >The section on malting was not necessary.....
 >
 > That is a strange comment, considering that the poster was looking for
 > information on doing his own malting.
 
 <I'm speaking of the video in general, as an intro to homebrewing for
 newbies. Generally, people don't want to start by malting. And since
 there's no discussion of mashing, there's no point in showing people how to
 malt.
 
 The intent is not to show people how to do it but to explain what malt is.  
 By actually makeing some, what it is, becomes very clear.  I have run into a 
 great many brewers who have no idea what is in a can of malt.
 
 >From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
 
 >Personally, I'm not sure if I could tell the difference in a blind tasting
 of Ales versus Lagers.  I'm also not sure if many "experts" could.....I don't 
 think even Michael Jackson would be able to tell if it was a Lager or an Ale 
 in a blind tasting.
 
 Thank you.  Just for a refreser, although this thread turned into a sales 
 pitch for Wyeast, my original intent was to understand why commercial 
 brewers, who are so terribly cost conscious, would spend so much money to 
 produce lager when their typical customer could not possibly tell the 
 difference.
 
 The only reasonable answer I picked out of the mess was that refrigerating 
 the process makes it less likely that something will go wrong or change.  The 
 rest is pure hype.
 
 >From: UNDERWOOD at INTEL7.intel.com
 
 >        Secondly, I tried using hop pellets in my last batch for the
         first time.  As the green slimy foam came to the top of my
         brew kettle, i skimmed it off.  Was this bad?
 
 I suspect you skimmed off most the hops you just put in. 
 
 >From: homer at drutx.att.com
 Subject: BJCP upcoming exams
 
 Milwaukee, WI
 June 13, 1992
 Karen Barela, AHA, (303) 447-0816
 
 I heard a rumor that there is going to be a convention in Milwaukee in June 
 and I asume this is connected with it.
 
 Would someone be so kind as to post the details and/or schedule for this 
 convention.
 
 js
 

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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 92 05:35:12 PST
From: Greg Roody - DTN 237-7122 - MaBell 508-841-7122 <roody at necsc.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Lienenkuegal brewery tours?

I'll be in Chipawah Falls WI for a month starting next week, and I am 
wondering if the "Lieney" brewery gives tours; does anyone know?  Also, 
if you know the area, is there anything to do out there?

Thanks,  and feel free to respond directly if the info isn't beer related.

/greg



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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 92 05:35:32 PST
From: darrylri at microsoft.com
Subject: Beer Color Prediction Algorithm

(I sent this reply on Friday last, but it seems to have been 
lost in the bowels of someone's mail system.  I appologize in 
advance if it should eventually repeat.) 

smithey at rmtc.Central.Sun.COM (Brian Smithey) writes:
> >>>>> On Wed, 25 Mar 92 19:10:02 CST, gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix) said:
> George> After the book was off to Brewers Publ., Darryl Richman sent me
> George> a remarkable new formula for the a priori prediction of wort
> George> color.
> [...]
> George> We sure hope Darryl makes his new software available (it includes
> George> a new hop bitter estimation scheme as well).
> 
> Any chance that these will be made available for public consumption,
> Darryl?  Those of us who write our own software or (shudder) calculate
> by hand can use all the help we can get.

George was far more generous with the credit than necessary.  I 
was rereading his article in the Fall 88 Zymurgy about measuring 
beer color.  In that article, there is a graph presented showing 
the color of a Michelob Dark (MD) as it is gradually diluted 
with distilled water.  MD is known to be 17 SRM.  The idea in 
George's article is that by diluting MD until it matches the 
color of your beer, you can determine your beer's actual color. 
Sort of a homemade set of Lovibond cells. 

Also, in the article, George comments on the common color 
prediction algorithm of beer color = grain color * pounds of 
grain / gallons of beer. He says that this works for very pale 
beers in the 2-4 SRM range, but becomes dramatically incorrect 
as the color gets darker. 

My approach is to take the grist and determine how big a batch 
would be required to produce a beer with 2 SRM.  Then, take the 
difference from this volume and the actual batch size and use 
that to move back on the curve and predict a color. 

I ran this on several batches of beer from my logs and it seemed 
reasonable. Until, however, the beer is darker than MD.  A stout 
that I had made, which was very dark but not completely opaque, 
came up at about 600 SRM. The fault here is entirely my own 
since I naively extrapolated the curve in a straight line.  
Obviously, the curve flattens out dramatically somewhere above 
17 SRM.  I haven't had the opportunity to look at the data 
beyond 17 SRM, so I can only advise:  Beware the dark side of 
the curve, Luke. 

		--Darryl Richman


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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1992 09:02:06 -0500 (EST)
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu>
Subject: Liquid crystal thermometers

I am looking for a source for "stick-on" liquid crystal thermometers for my
fermeters (carboys).  I have found some aquarium thermometers that cover 70-90
(good to determine when to pitch), but I'd like one that goes lower (down into
the lager fermentation range).  Has anyone seen such a thing?  (At a reasonable
price?  My aquarium thermometers cost less than $2 each.  I don't really expect
to find a wider range for that price, but $20 would certainly be out of the
question.

=Spencer W. Thomas 		HSITN, U of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 48109
spencer.thomas at med.umich.edu	313-747-2778

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Date: 31 Mar 1992   9:09 EST
From: wkb at cblph.att.com
Subject: Aquarium thermometers/hydrometers -- NOT!

    sterling at glorfindel.umcs.maine.edu (Sterling Udell) writes:
    > 
    > ... One other thing.  While in Key West I saw a number of
    > salt-water aquariums, and a common piece of equipment for them was a
    > combination thermometer/hydrometer.  Didn't measure in degrees Balling
    > or potential alcohol %age, of course - just specific gravity - but
    > that's good enough for me.  The convenience of both hydrometer and
    > thermometer in one handy package is quite enticing; this _is_
    > something I think I'll go out and buy as soon as I have a chance to
    > scour the pet stores, but I'd like to ask the HBD again: has anyone
    > used one before?

    The normal range of specific gravities for marine aquaria is about 1.020
    to 1.024, so I doubt the hydrometer you saw will have a range useful for
    brewing.  I also don't think the thermometer would have a range much
    more than 65 to 95 degrees fahrenheit (typical fish-keeping temps).

    -- Keith

    | W. Keith Brummett          (614) 860-3187           AT&T, Room 3B202 |
    | att!cblph!wkb  or,      FAX: (614) 868-4021        6200 E. Broad St. |
    | wkb at cblph.att.com            R,DW,HAHB!           Columbus, OH 43213 |
    `----------------------------------------------------------------------'


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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 92 07:48 CST
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Rehydrating Yeast

 
 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling
   
 
                 Another MOMILY bites the dust?
 
 I had routinely rehydrated yeast with a small amount of wort for years but 
 recently switched to water on the advice of "experts".   Not one to take 
 advice without a pinch of salt, I tried it and was so impressed with the 
 vigorous foaming of EDME in water that I assumed that the dryed product must 
 contain a nutrient and henceforth, rehydrated in water.
 
 In my current life as a yeast culturing microbiologist, I noted that when I 
 started a culture of EDME in water, the cells in a water solution showed no 
 signs of reproduction even 24 hours later, in spite of the successful growth 
 on the petri medium and slant.
 
 I then started a culture in wort and found that at least 50% of the cells 
 were in bud 24 hours later.  It was now 48 hrs for the water culture and I 
 was able to find only a few random cells that looked like they might be 
 budding.
 
 I do not know what the logic or reason is for rehydrating in water but it is 
 clear that the time spent in this condition is not producing new yeast and it 
 is hard to believe that yeast treated in this way is somehow capapable of 
 producing better beer than yeast that is encouraged to actively reproduce.   
 It's sort of like drinking tea and singing hymns at a bachelor party.
 
 js
 
 

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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1992 09:53 EST
From: Frank Tutzauer <COMFRANK at ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu>
Subject: VMS conversion of UNIX files--summary

Well, thanks to everyone who responded to my post about vms conversion
of unix files in general and the Cat's Meow II in particular.  There
were far too many helpful responses for me to respond invidually, but
I really do appreciate everyone's helpfulness.  Just so we'll have it
written down in one place, and also because I've noticed a few more
people asking how, I'll post this summary of the responses I received.

First, it is possible to get plain ASCII files and uncompressed postscript
files.  Many kind souls offered to send them to me, but they are also 
available via ftp from  NETLIB at MTHVAX.CS.MIAMI.EDU and from 
GARBO.UWASA.FI (128.214.87.1).  I haven't tried GARBO, but NETLIB has
an upper limit on what they'll send you and I must have exceeded it
because it chokes when I try to get CAT II (which, afterall, is a pretty
big file).  I got CAT I a long time ago (in pieces).

Second, some VMS's will recognize a thing called DECOMP which will
decompress UNIX files straight away or will put them in a form that
they can be UUDECODED.  I couldn't get my system to recognize the
command (but it's probably my fault).

Third, there is a utility called LZCOMPRESS.SHARE available from
OAK.OAKLAND.EDU in the pub/misc/vaxvms directory.  There are other
vms goodies there too.  Also, a range of LZxx utilities are hanging
around on DECUS tapes, whatever they are.

Fourth, for Mac users, you can get MacCompress and UUdecode from
SUMEX-AIM.STANFORD.EDU.

Finally, COMPRESS_VMS.EXE is available from TUCANA.TUC.NOAO.EDU and
from DECWRL.  I lost (never had?) the internet for DECWRL, but I
think it's something like DECWRL.ENET.DEC.COM.  Anyway, COMPRESS_VMS.EXE
is the route I went, and I got it from TUCANA.  Worked like a charm.
Just make sure you set up the symbol:
    UNCOMPRESS :== $[your dir]compress_vms.exe uncompress
and make sure that the file you are uncompressing has the extension
xx_z, where xx is, I believe, anything as long as it doesn't make the
extension illegal.  The important part is the _z, or uncompress won't
recognize the file.

Again thanks to everyone for making it easier for a VMS user to get along
in a UNIX world.



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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 92 09:58:14 EST
From: matth at bedford.progress.COM
Subject: Fish fryers and gauges


Reply to message from sterling at gandalf.umcs.maine.edu

  First, let me say I like the idea of the burner setup.

  Second, I don't think the fish thermometer/hydrometer will be able to do what
you need.  Of all the ones I've seen, the temperature scale does not go high
enough.  I think the highest I've seen is ~ 95 degress F.  Hell, it doesn't
need to be any higher, unless you want to have a fish fry without the nice
burner apperatus!-)

 -Matth

          Matthew J. Harper ! Progress Software Corp. ! {disclaimer.i}         
   God created heaven and earth to grow barley and hops. Now he homebrews !-)  




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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 92 10:10:07 -0500
From: yoost at judy.indstate.edu
Subject: Plastic Carboys


Has anyone ever tried them for a secondary ?

when using Crystal Malt to "flavor" and "color" an extract brew should
one add at the beginning of the boil ?

 -John Yoost

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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1992 10:44 EST
From: CSGARDNER%GALLUA.bitnet at VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
Subject: Riverdale, MD supplier address request.


Greetings all! I am a neophyte brewer (2 successful batches - so far, so good!),
   benefiting tremendously from the wealth of information and experience here on

the net. After having been walked through the process by an old high school pal
and homebrewer and reading the info here, I think I'm ready for my first solo
batch. I read earlier this year of a supplier of brewing supplies located in
Riverdale, MD. As I am living in Washington, DC and am only 10 mins from there,
   I would like to first get to peruse what a brewstore offers before I settle i
   ntoplacing my orders by phone/mail and waiting for my goodies to arrive. If a
   nyone
still has or if the original poster wouldn't mind mailing me this supplier's
address, I'd be grateful. As a beginner, my needs are pretty simple, your basic
kit and prepared malts, etc. will do while I am still absorbing the basic
principles of brewing. With that in mind if anyone can suggest any good catalogs
   for the beginner and how to get them? For that too, Thanks in advance!

Cherisse Gardner
csgardner at gallua

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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 92 15:31 GMT
From: brians <brians_+a_neripo_+lbrians+r%NERI at mcimail.com>
Subject: Propensity Lager Difficulties

MHS:   Source date is:      31-Mar-92 09:34 EDT

          ZLPAJGN%LUCCPUA.bitnet at UICVM.UIC.EDU wrote about an attempt
          at Propensity Lager:


          >When it was cool enough, I strained out as much on the
          >hops as I could (Pap.'s recipe calls for straining or
          >sparging the hops straight after the boil :-? ), and that
          >proved to be a long and tedious process.  I had thought,
          >given the nature of pelletized hops, that I'd have to use a
          >COFFEE strainer, but the kitchen strainer proved to be
          >enough of a trial!!  I had to pour a bit, spoon
          >through the strainer to let the wort pass, spoon out the
          >spent hops,then start again.  The whole process took about
          >half an hour!!

          Yep, from my experience that's about par for the course for
          straining hops.  As you no doubt noticed, pellet hops break
          up into myriad hop leaves and powder that clog like nobody's
          business.  Look around for a hop bag--I use a nylon bag in
          my beers, it keeps the hops all in one place, removes the
          need for filtering, and despite the fact they don't get to
          swim through the wort, seems to give me all the bitterness
          and aroma I want.

          >When I finished, the wort in the fermenter looked like
          >thick, milky caramel!

          This seems perhaps a little odd; I'd never describe any of
          my wort as "thick, milky caramel."  However, you might just
          be seeing the effect of trub--hot and cold break material
          that might not have been terribly well filtered given your
          necessary multiple-step filtration technique.  In general,
          unless you've been given foul, spoiled extract, there's
          almost nothing you can do wrong in the boiling stage that
          you'll be able to actually see that soon, so I would advise
          not worrying.

          >Fermentation began vigorously within 24 hrs and is
          >continuing still...The wort is STILL a milky-caramel in
          >color!  Is this normal?  Will it clear eventually?  If not,
          >do I need to rack to a secondary?

          Milky colors in fermentation are normal--you've got billions
          of little living specks of yeast tearing through your wort
          sugars, and their population can make the beer look kinda
          milky.  I expect it'll clear on you.  Racking to a secondary
          is a good idea if you're concerned about clarity--I always
          get a decent amount of "extra" yeast to fall out in a
          secondary--but since your post suggests you'd have to use
          the same container for secondary and the transfer would make
          you worry, I'd suggest not bothering.  Drink the stuff out
          of a porcelain mug if clarity bothers you!  Let us know how
          it looks in a week or so; if it still looks like milky
          caramel (geez, I'm gonna have to go buy a candy bar after
          this post!), you might want to try racking just to see what
          it would do.

          Brian Schuth



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Date:         Tue, 31 Mar 92 08:17:55 PLT
From: Tim Rushing <RUSHING at WSUVM1.CSC.WSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Homebrew Digest #853 (March 31, 1992)

tell listserv beer-l uns

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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 92 08:31:18 -0800
From: mcnally at wsl.dec.com
Subject: protein rest a necessity?


In HBD 853 Al Korzonis writes:

    2. You should point out that this is a single-step infusion mash and
    thus requires well-modified malt (Pale malt).  Using less-modified 
    malt (such as Lager malt) would require a protein rest.

Well, I used to believe this, but now I wonder.  According to many 
sources, most commercial breweries use a single-step infusion.  I've
done this myself, and have had no problems at all.  No haze, no excessive
trub, nothing.

_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
Mike McNally                                           mcnally at wsl.dec.com
Digital Equipment Corporation
Western Software Lab

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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 92 07:52:25 MST
From: haney at soul.ampex.com (Kenneth Haney)
Subject: bottling question


  Hi all,

I was wanting to know if anyone could tell me how much dry malt extract
I need to use at bottling? I wanted to try it instead of sugar to see
if there is a difference.

Thanks in advance,
Ken
haney at ampex.com

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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 92 12:02:00 EST
From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West)
Subject: re: John's Monster, brewing w/sugar 

>...70% pale malt, 20% dark brown sugar...smelled strongly of rotten eggs...

Hmm.. Brown sugar? Sulfur smell?

There might be something here.

(In the US at least) Brown sugar is made by adding some molasses back into 
refined white sugar. Lots of molasses has some sulfur compound or other in 
it leftover from the refining process (if it doesn't say `unsulfured'...). 
Perhaps making your own `brown sugar' with what you know to be unsulfured 
molasses would ease the stink?


Carl

WISL,BM.

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Date:         Tue, 31 Mar 92 13:13:45 ECT
From: KIMMARIE McGOLDRICK <BG5564%BINGVMB.bitnet at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Please remove me from the mailing list.

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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 92 10:33:34 PST
From: bgros at sensitivity.berkeley.edu (Bryan Gros)
Subject: Mail order prices

 Here is a price selection from the homebrew suppliers I have
catalogs for.  Some of the catalogs are from last year, so
prices may have changed.  Most of these places are on the
West coast.  I have only ordered things from one place, so
I have no comment on stock or service.  If there is a good
place I don't have listed, let me know.
Also, buying in bulk will lower these prices.

Place   Cascade pellets 2-row    bulk pale    wyeast  choc. malt   corn
          2 oz          barley   malt extr.             (1 #)     sugar(5#)
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
GFSR      2.50          .75     13.95/5lb      3.75     .99       4.75

GRM       2.50          .79     2.00/lb        4.00     1.25      5.00

JPB       1.98          .89     2.00/lb        3.95     1.25      3.50

ABev      2.00          .55    11.65/6lb       3.45     1.30      3.30

B&W       1.75          .95     1.90/lb        3.90     1.29      3.95

HBr       1.95          .90     3.00/lb*       3.75     1.50      4.50

Will      2.00         1.39    12.90/3lb       3.90     1.45      6.25

BrM       2.50          .80     8.50/3lb*      3.50     1.50      3.50

GrWM                    .70                             1.00


* - dried malt extract (all others are syrup)
GFSR - Great Fermentations of Santa Rosa   GFM - Great Ferment. of Marin
JPB - James Page Brewing Co.               ABev - Alternative Beverage
B&W - Barley and Wine                      HBr  - Home Brewery
Will - Williams Brewing                    BrM - Brewmaster
GrWM - Great Western Malting

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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 92 10:52:17 PST
From: bgros at sensitivity.berkeley.edu (Bryan Gros)
Subject: wort chilling

I asked last week on how to make a wort chiller and got many
useful replies.  Thanks a lot.

Here is what I did.  It took a couple of hours on Saturday, mostly
sitting there and thinking too much before I actually decided to
bend the copper.

I had 50' of tubing, and used a plant pot to coil it into about a 
ten inch coil.  The coiling went well, and I coiled about three
quarters of the copper.  I decided to make a smaller, inner coil
with the remaining tubing, since the big coil so far was pretty 
tall.  I then realized that I shoula made the small coil first.
Oh well.  I used a wine bottle to make the inner coil, and left
the bare ends rising out of the pot.  The outer coil flexes a lot,
like a slinky, but the inner coil is pretty rigid. 
 I decided I didn't want hose fitting on my kitchen sink, and since
the plastic racking tube i had was 3/8" I.D., it fit right on the
copper ends.  I went to the hardware store and put about four
fitting together to go from a sink to a 3/8" hose fitting ($6),I 
got two clamps to keep the plastic on the copper($1.50), and
a short piece of tougher plastic tubing ($1.40) for the hot
outflow.  I used it to cool 3.5 gallons of boiling water and it
was down to 25C in ten minutes.

So how do I use it on wort?  I cool the wort after boiling, and 
let the cold break settle, right?  So do I pitch the yeast starter,
wait an hour or so for the settling, and then rack to the carboy?
Do I just wait and don't pitch till the wort is in the carboy?

                                 - Bryan

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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 92 14:14:09 CST
From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec)
Subject: no-alcohol beer factoids

Some tidbits gleened from an article on no-alcohol brews in 
the Monday, March 30, Wall Street Journal, written by Marj
Charlier:

 - Brewers don't pay federal excise tax on no-alcohol beer, which 
boosts profit margins by $18 per barrel.

 - The California Highway Patrol recently instructed its officers
not to arrest anyone for drinking no-alcohol beers while driving.
This, despite language in the state Vehicle Code that says a 
beverage with any amount of alcohol is considered alcoholic and
therefore isn't compatible with driving motor vehicles.

 - Domestic no-alcohol brews have 65 to 76 calories.

 - The Big 3 employ different processes.  Miller cooks Sharp's at a 
low temperature, thereby avoiding production of alcohol.  Anheuser-
Busch makes a regular beer and then removes the alcohol.  Coors uses
a special yeast and brewing process that together produce less alcohol.

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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1992 12:19:05 -0800
From: mfetzer at ucsd.edu (The Rider)
Subject: Re: Off to Deuchtland.


>Date: 27 Mar 1992 13:57:04 -0500
>From: Chris McDermott <mcdermott at draper.com>
>Subject: Off to Deuchtland.
>
> Off to Deuchtland.
>I am going to Munich for a week soon, and I was wondering if anyone could gives
>some suggestions as to some beir related places to check out.  Of course I mean
>besides the obvious places like the Haufbrauhouse.  Thanks in advance.
>
> Chris McDermott, [homebrew, not just for breakfast anymore]
> <mcdermott at draper.com>

Oh, Chris, Chris, Chris, I'm crying... for one, they may give you an exam
before they let you enter the country, and that'll be to spell it.
Deutschland. But worse than that, you'll be sorely disappointed when you
hit that obvious place, the Hofbr*aeu*haus. You'll find no Germans inside.
Mostly American and Japanese tourists, by the busload, and Italian,
Turkish, what have you waiters. Can you say *touristtrap*?

My recommendation is to hit small pubs in small towns. Sample the local
breweries, you can get Paulaner in all of southern Germany, so try
something local. Be aware that northern German beers are hoppy, bitter.
Southern German malty, sweet. Tons of small breweries in towns are still
independent and brew according to local styles. Try a 'Radler' sometime. :)

Michael

- --
Michael Fetzer
Internet:      mfetzer at ucsd.edu        uucp:           ...!ucsd!mfetzer
Bitnet:        FETZERM at SDSC            
HEPnet/SPAN:   SDSC::FETZERM           or  27.1::FETZERM


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Date:       31 Mar 92 16:00:00 EST
From: Joel (J.N.) Avery <JAVERY at BNR.CA>
Subject:    What kind of hops do I want?

First of all, I want to thank everyone who sent me information
about where I can get hop rhizomes from.  It turns out a store
right here in Ottawa is ordering rhizomes from Washington, and
is doing all of the paperwork importing them.  So all I need to
do now is select a couple of kinds.  I figure (being stupid) that
I'll only order two - one for bittering, and one for aroma.  I
use extract kits exclusively (because of time), and I mostly make
dark beer (pale ale, bitters, and browns) - is two kinds of hops
enough to get by?

What I would like the net to do for me now is help me select the
kind of hops I should order.  I can get the Alpha acid content
and stability of some of the hops from Papazian, but not all, and
he does not mention the yield from the different types.  I know that
the net contains all of this information.

The kinds of rhizomes available are:  cascade, centennial, chinook
hallertauer, herzbruker, mount hood, nuggett, perle, tettnanger,
williamette, bullion, kent goldings, and northern brewer.

Thanks in advance,
Joel


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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 92 17:05:43 CST
From: pf at harlan.ls.utsa.edu (Paul Farnsworth)


Please add me to your mailing list.

pf at harlan.ls.utsa.edu

Dr. Paul Farnsworth
Division of Life Sciences
6900 N. Loop 1604 W
San Antonio, TX 78249

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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 92 17:54:06 CST
From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)

 
Subject: Jack's Grain Mill (George Fix)

I have been meaning to do a review of Jack's mill for some time,
but have been putting off doing it. It seems that every time I
would start the review, Jack would send a post to HBD insulting
someone I liked and respected. That plus a heavy workload made
procrastination easy. In recent weeks the tone has greatly improved,
and in fact his experiments with NA formulations have been quite
interesting. Thus I decided to make the time to do the review.

To get to the main point, Jack has built a first rate mill that is
worth every penny  he is asking for it. The metal work, the
heart of any mill, is extremely impressive. When the mill first
arrived, the first thing we did was to compare the quality of the
crush with that obtained from the commercial mill at the Dallas
Brewing. For the record the latter cost between $5000 and $6000. 
There was absolutely no difference between the two.

Shortly after getting the mill, I joined the staff at the Brewers
Research and Development Co. (BRD) as a senior consultant. This
firm makes brewing equipment and provides technical services for
brewpubs and micros. With that job came a 1/2 bbl. BRD prototype to
be used as a part of our customer service. Out went my old system including
Jack's mill. The new owner of this system bought it primarily to get
the mill, and is very happy with it. He promised a review which I will
communicate to HBD.

Two very small additional points. Jack has gone overboard with respect to
safety. He seems to be very worried he will be sued. (Folks, we have flamed 
him too often in the past!) This has lead to features in the mill which
hurt its throughput, but not the very high quality of the crush. First, as
noted in an earlier review, it is underpowered especially considering the
quality of the rollers. This is of course easy to fix, and a motor which
works in the 900-1200 rpm range seems well suited. Also by by stepping up
to 1/2 hp, one could start the mill with grains in the hopper. One can not
do this with the motor Jack has on the mill.

Second, the pulley driving the rollers is not rigidly attached to the rollers,
but rather to a slip disc on the roller shaft. Jack did this obiously with 
safety in mind. We took the mill to a local machine shop and they extended 
the screw hole in the pulley through the slip disc, and then threaded it.
With this change the pulley could be rigidly attached to the rollers with
a hex nut. The throughput went up by a factor of ten after this was done.

Congratulations Jack. You have every right to be proud of your mill.



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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 92 17:55:01 CST
From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)

Subject: Esters and typos (George Fix)

From:Korz at ihlpl.att.com
 >I also assume that the yeast does more than create the alcohol,
 >rather the reaction between the alcohol and acid takes in the
 >yeast cell wall (George? Help?)

Al, you need very little help from me. Your comments about esters
seemed both accurate and informative. I presented data from HPLC
studies a few years ago in a AHA national meeting which confirms
your comments. This data was published in Vol. 7 of BEER and BREWING.

Micah is right about the typos in the book with my wife. Fortunately
the numerical entries in the recipes are ok, as are the hop calculations.
There is one major screemer in Chapter 3. It occurs at the bottom of page 45.
It reads


       6 1/3 
      --------  = 3 1/3 barrels
        2 

It should read


     6 2/3
    -------- = 3 1/3 gallons
      2

There are a number of mangled words. Contrary to what is seen on page vii,
Laurie does not execute people for a living. There will be a second printing
so we would be gratiful for any comments and corrections.


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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 92 18:43:33 -0500
From: adw3345 at ultb.isc.rit.edu (A.D. Williams)
Subject: Bottle Fermenting Temps


 Last Saturday a friend and I brewed some beer, and it's fermenting
away in a bucket in the kitchen. Next Saturday we will bottle it and
let it ferment some more. Since this is my second batch of beer (everyone
say 'ooooh'! :-) ) I've still got a few questions:

 1) What tempurature should I store the bottles when the beer is fermenting
    in them? Last time I put some in the fridge, some in a closet (room
    tempurature). The ones in the fridge tasted better, but on the other
    hand I made quite a few mistakes with the last batch (boiled for only
    15 minutes, put way too much corn sugar in it - 1 and 1/2 cups), so
    perhaps putting it in the fridge gave it some saving grace.

 2) Since this was the first time I boiled the mixure for a whole hour,
    I noticed that at the last fifteen minutes or so, the mixure changed
    composition and foamed up a bit. Is this the usual thing to happen?


 My recipie was simple, 1 can of amber light extract, 3 pounds - 1 cup
of light malt extract, and 1/2 ounce of fuggles at 60, 15, and 5 minutes
of boil time. I plan to use the 1 cup of malt extract for priming.

 Thanks all for any help. This newsgroup is the best thing that happened
to my new found hobby!

                                                             Derrick

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Date: 	Tue, 31 Mar 1992 19:00:00 -0500
From: Nick Zentena <nick.zentena at canrem.com>
Subject: kettles and other


        Hi,
                Lost a handle on my canning pot last week
                -(. I've since ordered one of the Rapid
                60+qt kettles. Would anybody want to comment
                on the handles on these things?

                Secondly how long can I keep my yeast
                starter going? I've fed it again but I won't
                have the pot until probably next week.

                When I was reading Fosters Pale ale book he
                mentions keeping carbonation low enough with
                a keg system is nearly impossible.  So has
                anybody tried pure Nitrogen instead of CO2?

                Thanks

                Nick
- ---
 ~ DeLuxe} 1.21 #9621 ~ nick.zentena at canrem.com
- --
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044

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Date:    Wed, 01 Apr 92 09:16 CET
From: "R.P.M. Tebarts (DBA-CRI)"
Subject: re: chimay white

The chimay cinq cents is indeed the 750 cl version of the chimay
white cap.

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #854, 04/01/92