FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  steam beer help (Bryan Gros)
  raspberry ale (Anthony Rossini)
  14th Annual Homebrewing Competition (Tom Kaltenbach)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #855 (April 02, 1992) (tom mueller)
  chiller (Russ Gelinas)
  mead honey recommendations? (Brian Smithey)
  Leinenkugel Tours ("Roger Deschner  ")
  Re: Can Liquid Yeast Pkgs Explode? YES!!! ("Roger Deschner  ")
  Leftover Grain from Hell? (brians)
  Negative Pressurein the Blow Off (ZLPAJGN)
  Jack (Ken Johnson)
  brown sugar & molasses (Brian Bliss)
  Brewpubs in the Albuquerque Area (James S Durham)
  Homemade Seltzer (GEOFF REEVES)
  Re: thermometers/hydrometers ("Emily Breed")
  Ales and Lagers (GEOFF REEVES)
  Y'all come from Micah Millspaw (Bob Jones)
  Only nose knows (Bob Jones)
  list (SOCHA THOMAS M)
  forced carbonation (Michael Biondo)
  Stinks & a question (Jacob Galley)
  Beer Expo in D.C. (Mark Stevens)
  san fran (marc julian)
  Using Pale Extracts in Stouts (C.R. Saikley)
  AHA Conference Milwaukee (homer)
  Thermo/Hydro/Micro (Kathleen T Moore)


Send submissions to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues!]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Apr 92 23:36:33 PST
From: bgros at sensitivity.berkeley.edu (Bryan Gros)
Subject: steam beer help

I want to make a reasonable approximation to Anchor Steam.  I
have the new cat's meow (which has few steam beer recipes), but
I'd like any hints anyone can offer on making the brew.

Any specific tips on the mash?  I've heard N. Brewer hops is
the thing, but any special hopping rates?  HBUs?  I'll be
trying the Wyeast California Lager.  What about adjuncts?
Fermentation time and temps?

thanks.
                                    - Bryan

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Date: Thu, 2 Apr 92 07:42:47 EST
From: rossini%biosun2 at harvard.harvard.edu (Anthony Rossini)
Subject: raspberry ale


Does anyone have suggestions for an extract-based raspberry ale (amounts of
raspberries, hops, adjunct grains, even a recipe?)?  I'm thinking about
something like:
	5 lbs amber malt syrup
	1-2 pkgs frozen raspberries
	2 oz Cascade hops (boiling)
	1 oz ?? (finishing)
	1/2 lb crystal malt...

for a 5 gallon batch.  The primary goal is something like a bitter with
raspberry flavor, and maybe even a red-ish tinge. 

If I don't care about clearing (the taste is the main important point with
me) , is there any problems with pectin in the beer (or should I not add the
crushed berries until the wort starts to cool on general principle?)


Advice, ideas welcome, flames (seems like there is still too much
intolerance on here -- USE PERSONAL EMAIL, FOLKS!  I read the same stuff as
the rest of you HBD'ers, and if you are hot under the collar because someone
sounds arrogant or annoying, don't tell me, since I don't care) send 'em to
/dev/null... 

And keep them there.

But about those raspberries... No stout recipes, please.  As much as I'm
interested in trying CP's Cherries in the Snow or his Rasp Stout, I've got
anxious roommates to please (taste-bud and time-wise)...

thanks,
 -tony

- --
Anthony Rossini       -       rossini at biostat.harvard.edu
Department of Biostatistics, Harvard School of Public Health
677 Huntington Ave, Boston MA 02115  617-432-1056

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Date: Thu, 2 Apr 92 7:01 EST
From: tom at kalten.bach1.sai.com (Tom Kaltenbach)
Subject: 14th Annual Homebrewing Competition


                  UPSTATE NEW YORK HOMEBREWERS ASSOCIATION

                14th Annual Contest & 3rd Empire State Open
                          Saturday, April 25, 1992
                                     at
          Clancy's Pub -- 534 West Ridge Road, Rochester, New York

                                ADMISSION $5
                          Doors open at 6:00 p.m.
 
                     Public judging starts at 7:00 p.m.

     COME AND JOIN THE FUN AT NEW YORK STATE'S OLDEST HOMEBREW CONTEST!

                      *** FREE SAMPLES OF HOMEBREW ***

        Contest sanctioned by the American Homebrewers Association.

 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

THERE WILL BE 10 CATEGORIES:

   1) British Ale               4) Light Lager          7) Porter   
   2) North American Ale        5) Amber Lager          8) Stout    
   3) Brown Ale                 6) Dark Lager           9) Specialty

                           10) Looks Like SARANAC

No entries will be accepted after April 11.
Beers can be entered at shops in:  Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, Ithaca, 
Albany, Binghamton, and the Hudson Valley, or they can be shipped.

For further information about prizes, entering the contest, etc., send an 
email request to "tom at kalten.bach1.sai.com".

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Date:         Thu, 02 Apr 92 09:02:29 EST
From: tom mueller <MUELLER at VM.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Homebrew Digest #855 (April 02, 1992)

Please end my subscription to homebrew.  mueller at vm.cc.purdue.edu

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Date:    Thu, 2 Apr 1992 9:47:15 -0500 (EST)
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: chiller

   Something I'd like to add about using an immersion wort chiller:  the
water that exits the chiller is *extremely* hot.  I use it rinse off my
already sanitized stainless spoon, which I then use to gently stir the 
cooling wort into a vortex.

   Someone was confused about the order of chilling/pitching steps.  Here's
what I do.
  (1) Chill (and stir, as above)
  (2) Remove chiller when wort is cooled
  (3) Pitch yeast
  (4) Stir into vortex again (make sure the spoon (and your arm) is sanitized!
     This is the step most likely to introduce bacteria/mold/etc.)
  (5) Let sit for 1-2 hours
  (6) Transfer to carboy

Russ

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Date: Thu, 2 Apr 92 08:12:02 MST
From: smithey at rmtc.Central.Sun.COM (Brian Smithey)
Subject: mead honey recommendations?

Mead makers,

I'm getting ready to brew a mead, and was hoping that the experienced
mead-makers out there could post a summary of the flavor characteristics
of some of the different honeys available.  Just looking at the shelf in
the grocery store last evening I saw alfalfa, clover, wildflower, and a
couple of others.

Also, anybody in the area (Denver/Boulder/CoSprings) feel free to recommend
a supplier, I'm sure that Safeway isn't the cheapest place to buy large
volumes of honey.

Thanks,
Brian
- --
Brian Smithey / Sun Microsystems / Colorado Springs, CO
smithey at rmtc.Central.Sun.COM

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Date: 2 April 1992 09:20:55 CST
From: "Roger Deschner " <U52983 at UICVM.UIC.EDU>
Subject: Leinenkugel Tours

I have been on the tour, and the brewery is truly a museum piece - with
twisty passages, the aforementioned steep stairways, climbing over pipes
and hoses, and wonderful classic huge mysterious pieces of America's
Industrial Past going "hiss hiss hiss" as levers move up and down and
whirlygigs whirl. Bring your camera, especially if you're into industrial
history.

However, the best part of Chippewa Falls must be its bars. All small,
friendly, places that treat tourists same as locals, and proudly sell a
10 oz glass of the local product for $.25. At happy hour it's $.20! And
it is, of course, VERY fresh, so while Leinenkugel's is not exactly a
four-star beer, it is one of the better representatives of the American
Pale Pilsner Style, so despite my beer-geekdom, I found fresh
Leinenkugel's very enjoyable on a hot July afternoon after all those
stairs on the brewery tour.

Whoda' thought such an environment would give birth to the world's
fastest computers.

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Date: 2 April 1992 09:43:27 CST
From: "Roger Deschner " <U52983 at UICVM.UIC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Can Liquid Yeast Pkgs Explode? YES!!!

After several years of reliable performance from Wyeast's packaging,
they changed something early in 1992, and a number of people have
reported bursting packages. Not only is this a waste of very good yeast,
it is a mess. Wyeast's quality control people are said to be VERY
concerned, and we all hope they fix this problem soon.

What to do since you can't brew right away: Make a starter, as per the
instructions on the Wyeast package or in many books. The Wyeast package
is itself a starter, and so you're simply enlarging the starter. This
is a good idea even without the fear of bursting, since the quantity of
wort in the package gives just barely a high enough pitching rate to
insure rapid commencement of fermentation and the protection from
infection and worry which that will give you.

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Date: Thu, 2 Apr 92 15:30 GMT
From: brians <brians_+a_neripo_+lbrians+r%NERI at mcimail.com>
Subject: Leftover Grain from Hell?

MHS:   Source date is:      2-Apr-92 10:07 EDT

  To Mike Sharp, re the Mash Tun From H*ll:

  >Yesterday's alpha test recipe was fairly generic (a shock to many who
  >know me!):
  >     30lb 6-row pale
  >      5lb 40L crystal

  Just curious--what do you do with 35lb of waterlogged grain after the
  mash?

  Brian Schuth

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Date:    Thu, 02 Apr 92 11:52 CST
From: ZLPAJGN%LUCCPUA.bitnet at UICVM.UIC.EDU
Subject: Negative Pressurein the Blow Off

Dear Brewers

First, I want to thank all who responded to my post re: "milky-caramel"
appearance to my wort.  I'd like to thank in particular Steve Hamburg
and Mark Easter for their insights and experience.  Thanks all... I'm
not worrying...  At least I wasn't until this morning...

When I got up this morning to check on how well my wort was clearing -
it had progressed to about half way into the wort - I noticed that the
blowoff tube had filled with clear water, obviously sucked in from the
catch recepticle!  (Maybe *that's* why Pap. suggests replacing the blow
off tube with a fermentation lock!!)

I suspect that, because of the temperature drop last night - I've got
the carboy out on the back porch - the wort condensed a bit and the
negative pressure sucked up the chloronated water in the recepticle.
Now, the tube is quite long (about 6' or so), so I suspect that if any
of the water did get into the wort, it was minimal.

Still, I replaced the tube with a lock, but now I've got yet another set
of questions for the Illuminati:
     1) Will the small amount of HCl-ated water that was sucked into the
     wort do any damage?
     2) Will the exposure to the air (when I switched from the blowoff
     tube to the lock) effect the wort?
     3) Is there now a possibility that, having replaced the blowoff
     with a lock, any further fluxuation in temperature/pressure will
     suck in (contaminating) air through the lock?

Thanks for the responses

John

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Date: Thu, 2 Apr 92 09:55:33 PST
From: kjohnson at argon.berkeley.edu (Ken Johnson)
Subject: Jack

Hey Jack, my mail server doesn't recognize you host machine.  So how am I
supposed to get in touch with you to ask you about your mill?

kj

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Date: Thu, 2 Apr 92 12:41:06 CST
From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)
Subject: brown sugar & molasses


> ... brown sugar == molasses & cane sugar

well, I for one can taste the difference between beers made with
brown sugar and those made with molasses, and beleive me, brown sugar
is prefereable, being quite appropriate in an english ale.
molasses leaves a much more distinctive taste, very sweet, and
objectionable in excess.  I've used 2 lbs of brown sugar in a 1.075 OG,
1.020 FG ale before and it was yummy.  My brewing partner used 1/4
cup molasses in 4 separate batches - It was quite at home in
the english ales, budefinitely a different flavor from brown
sugar.  It was not at home in a lager.  After the 4th batch,
we're both sick of molasses.  I've also used an entire 16 oz.
bottle of molasses before in a 1.088 OG 1.033 FG dark cherry ale,
and it worked wonderfully - the residual sweetness balanced the
acidic cherries nicely.  I was thinking about adding some molasses
to make a sweet cherry mead, but I'll stick with brown sugar
for the most part, from now on.

bb


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Date: Thu, 2 Apr 92 09:03 PST
From: James S Durham <js_durham at pnlg.pnl.gov>
Subject: Brewpubs in the Albuquerque Area


          Can anyone give me information on the existance of any
          brewpubs (or pubs with microbrewed beer on tap) in the Los
          Alamos / Sante Fe / Albuquerque area?  I plan on making a
          short visit to that area April 11 - 13.  I would also be
          interested in speaking to someone from the Los Alamos area
          brew club.  Replies can be sent to JS_Durham at PNL.GOV.
          Thanks in advance!

          Jim Durham

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Date: Thu, 2 Apr 92 11:53:19 -0700
From: 105277 at essdp2.lanl.gov (GEOFF REEVES)
Subject: Homemade Seltzer


My recipe is water + carbon dioxide.

Seriously. I tried carbonating water by fermenting a little sugar and
never had any luck. It carbonated but tasted terrible. Since getting
a CO_2 canister I just pressurize a keg of water to about 25psi and serve.

Of course, an alternative is to buy a seltzer bottle and some of those
CO_2 cartridges. It's a little more expensive but not much. Besides,
you can also buy NO_2 cartridges and make whip cream (or something ;-)

Geoff
Atomic City Ales

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Date:          Thu, 2 Apr 92 11:23:18 PST
From: "Emily Breed" <embreed at vnet.ibm.com>
Subject:       Re: thermometers/hydrometers

The catalog I got yesterday from Williams' Brewing Company included a combinatio
thermometer/hydrometer.  (Standard disclaimer inserted here....)

- -- Emily

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Date: Thu, 2 Apr 92 13:21:20 -0700
From: 105277 at essdp1.lanl.gov (GEOFF REEVES)
Subject: Ales and Lagers


Concerning the difference between using Ale and Lager yeast:

> The bottom line is that all beers have some esters...

Let's not forget that Jack S. makes non-alcoholic beers. Therefore I
would expect that NONE of his beers would have any esters in them.

Geoff

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Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1992 12:43 PDT
From: Bob Jones <BJONES at NOVA.llnl.gov>
Subject: Y'all come from Micah Millspaw

        With the AHA conference coming up in June, I have a suggestion.
I know that many of the contributors to the digest will be attending
and it might be nice all get together at some arranged time and place.
Sort of a put faces with names thing. Of course homebrews would be
sampled. Anyone else interested?
                                    Micah Millspaw  3/1/92

ps. Since Jack Schmidling lives in the area of the conference I hope he
can attend I would like to meet him. I am certain that interesting
conversation would insue.

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Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1992 12:55 PDT
From: Bob Jones <BJONES at NOVA.llnl.gov>
Subject: Only nose knows

I read the ongoing thread about ales vs lagers and can't help but wonder
how many brewers that have difficulty differentiating subtle aromatic and
taste differences in beers are smokers? Most smokers would be hard pressed to
identify gross differences in smells between ANY two items (I'm really trying
to be nice and general here) much less the subtle differences in beer aromas.
I remember the Mr. Wizard test where he closes a kids eyes and holds thier
nose and ask them what they are biting into. When they bite into an onion
they think they are biting into an apple. Once he lets the kid smell, the kid
immediately knows its an onion. I would suggest a smoker has a partial nose
clip on at all times :-).

Bob Jones

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Date: Thu, 2 Apr 92 16:19:40 -0500
From: tmsocha at vela.acs.oakland.edu (SOCHA THOMAS M)
Subject: list

does anyone have a list of AHA or other competitions?

Tom

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Date: Thu, 2 Apr 92 15:49:14 CST
From: michael at wupsych.wustl.edu (Michael Biondo)
Subject: forced carbonation

Hello All...

I have a few questions regarding Forced Carbonation.  I have gone
through past HBD and have downloaded the CO2 chart from the
archives so I think I've got somewhat of an idea of the general
process.  But, there are still a few grey areas...

What I've got so far is this:
  Rack to the keg; pressurize to about 30psi and shake real well;
  lower pressure to that specified on the CO2 chart based on
  temperature and desired carbonation level.

Now for the questions:
  First of all, does the above pretty well describe the process
  or am I all wet from the get-go?

  Is it necessary to chill the beer down as much as possible to
  aid the CO2 going into solution?  If yes, what are the effects
  when the beer is warmed back up to serving temperature?

  After initial pressurization to 30psi, how long is it recommended
  to keep the beer at that pressure before lowering it to the chart
  pressure?

  Is it sufficient to pressurize the keg and then remove the gas, 
  or should the gas be left on for the entire rest.

  After the 30psi pressurization I assume the keg must be vented and
  then re-pressurized to the chart pressure.  After which, how long
  is the recommended chart pressure rest?

  Should the chart pressure rest be done at serving temperature or
  as cold as possible?

  Lastly, (whew!) do you all think that there would be any benefit
  in connecting the gas line to the *output* of the keg so that the
  gas would have to actually bubble through the beer while 
  pressurizing?

Thanks in advance for any light you all may be able shed on the
above...

     Mike Biondo
     michael at wupsych.wustl.edu


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Date: Thu, 2 Apr 92 19:21:15 CST
From: Jacob Galley <gal2 at midway.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Stinks & a question

Walter Gude adds:

>The only times I've ever gotten a rotten egg smell is when I've fermented with
>more than 75% wheat malt. [ . . . ] The German Ale
>yeast had the sulfur smell for about a day and then its gone. Two weeks in the
>bottle and this beer is smooth clean and wonderful, better than the RS batch.

I currently have a Koelsch-esque brew fermenting with a rather stinky
air about it. That's roughly 15% wheat and German Ale Wyeast. I
mustered up the courage to taste it, nose held, and it's seems fine.
I'm not worried. I also used the slurry from the Koelsch for my Fine
Line Barleywine (aka Sleepout Imperative Stout), and this brew smells
fine -- good, even.

That reminds me . . .

Said barleywine is based on the Empirical Stout recipe in Meow I
(sorry, but I don't remember the creator off-hand). This recipe calls
for a primary ferment using some Ale Wyeast or other, and then, when
this yeast has passed on (so to speak), a secondary ferment using
champagne yeast. Does anyone have any comments on this technique? How
would it work on a mead?

Cheers,
Jake.

Reinheitsgebot <-- "Keep your laws off my beer!" <-- gal2 at midway.uchicago.edu

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Date: Thu, 2 Apr 92 20:58:27 EST
From: Mark Stevens <stevens at stsci.edu>
Subject: Beer Expo in D.C.

Hi folks...this was sent to me via e-mail but I think it would interest
others in this forum. Usual disclaimer applies....I have nothing to do
with the people running this expo and in no way profit from telling
people about it... :-)
- ---Mark


                 THE 1992 EAST COAST BEER AND AND WINE EXPO !
                        ( from DNA Productions, Inc. )

                                Date: May 31, 1992           
  -------->>>      at the Washington Plaza Hotel       <<<-------------
                on Thomas Circle in Washington D.C.

                    Microbreweries, Beer, Brew Supplies,
                         Food, Crafts, and more...

** Get your tickets early to be sure you don't miss this big event!! **
If you have an idea for a seminar, or panel discussion, call now!   
Check out the exhibits from Brew Clubs, Breweries, and Vendors!

Tickets:  $8.50 in advance               $10.00 at the door
Tickets available at Brew Masters in Rockville, MD  (301) 984-9557
and directly from DNA Productions - call or write for details.
        Send Check or Money Order to:  DNA Productions, Inc.
                                       12537 N. Lake Court
                                       Fairfax, Virginia  22033
            ==>   24 hour DNA Hotline - (703) 222-8486   <==


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Date:         Thu, 02 Apr 92 22:21:28 EST
From: marc julian <CMSMARC at uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      san fran

help !!!  I will be in San Francisco for a conference from 4/18 to 4/25. What
brewing establishments are located in San Fran ??  Any information would
be greatly appreciated..

thanks - cmsmarc at uga

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Date: Thu, 2 Apr 92 14:20:35 PST
From: grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: Using Pale Extracts in Stouts


From: Frank Tutzauer <COMFRANK at ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu>

>Since I am currently an
>extract brewer, I understand that I am somewhat at the mercy of the companies
>that manufacture my malt extract.  Nonetheless, I would like to know what
>determines the color of my beer's head in stouts and porters, and what I can
>do to influence that color.

Before I made the move to all grain, I too wanted to have more influence
over my beers. Not just head color, but in every respect possible. Short 
going all grain, there are things one can do.

Try using the palest extract available, regardless of whether you're
making a light lager or a stout. Starting from this point, you can
then adjust the color and malt character by adding specialty malts
(crystal, chocolate, etc.) as desired. Especially in darker brews, the
color and flavor contributions of the extract become less significant,
giving the extract brewer greater control over the outcome.

CR

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Date: Thu, 2 Apr 92 20:48 MST
From: homer at drutx.att.com
Subject: AHA Conference Milwaukee

The AHA conference will be June 9 to 13 at the Marc Plaza Hotel
Milwaukee.

For full details contact:
AHA Conference
PO Box 1679
Boulder CO 80306
(303) 447-0816
(303) 447-2825 fax

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Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1992 00:00:57 -0600
From: Kathleen T Moore <ktmg8824 at uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Thermo/Hydro/Micro

Someone wanted to know about a combination thermometer-hydrometer.
Well, I use one sold by Crosby & Baker, catalog # 3103.
It has a thermometer range of approx. 0-215F and a standard 3-scale hydrometer.
I don't know if C & B sells retail. (I buy the hydrometers for my brewery!)
The price in their wholesale catalog is $8.10, so you might expect to pay
$15.00 for it at a homebrew shop.  Their address is:

		Crosby & Baker
		999 Main Road
		P.O. Box 3409
		Westport, Massachusetts 02790

		(800) 992-0141
		(508) 636-5154


(Insert standard disclaimer here.)





Since I recieved only one or two responses to my question about brewing
microbiology, I will restate it more specifically:


	Where can I find, or who can provide me with specific info
	on detection and identification of beer spoiling organisms?
	Specifically, I'm interested in preparing selective and
	differential media for the culture of :

		1.  Obesumbacterium proteus
		2.  Escherichia spp.
		3.  Lactobacillus spp.
		4.  Pediococcus spp.
		5.  Acetobacter spp.
		6.  Acetomonas spp.
		7.  Zymomonas spp.
		8.  Aerobacter spp.

	Of course, I am particularly interested with techniques commonly
	employed by breweries.  I have access to incubators and autoclaves,
	and I also have basic streaking-plating-culturing experience.

	Perhaps someone who has attended the Siebel Institute's Course
	on Microbiology could point me in the right direction or even
	sell me a copy of their notebooks.

	Also, related yeast handling techniques would be appreciated.

	Does anyone know the cost of a Difco Manual?


Finally, what exactly is the difference between Hallertau mittelfreuh and
Hallertau hersbrucker?  I know the mittelfreuh is regarded as the nobler of 
the two, but what else?  Are mittelfreuhs available to homebrewers in
the U.S.?  Can we get mittelfreuh rhizomes?  Do the suppliers know the
difference?  Etc.
 
Perhaps Dr. Farnsworth could help me with my microbio question as I know
that he at one time sold culturing equipment to homebrewers.

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #856, 04/03/92