FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Re: Extract Brewing (Daniel Roman)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #861 (April 10, 1992) (Daniel Paul Checkman)
  kudos to HBD appends/burners (Tony Babinec)
  Disposing of 10 pounds of spent grain (matth)
  outdoor burners (chris campanelli)
  Vienna ("Olzenak,Craig")
  using sourdough culture in brew (dave ballard)
  Grain mill (J. Michael Burgeson)
  Re: reusing yeast (Jacob Galley)
  Killer head! (Jacob Galley)
  subscribing to list ("Mark Alfino, Dept. of Philosophy")
  Steam Beer Recipee (Subhash Chandra Roy)
  BREWING, SPENT GRAIN (Jack Schmidling)
  I'm Dirt! (Rob Nelson)
  Cherry Pie Filling (Kevin Yager)
  cats meow & mead (Heather Godsey)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 9:36:29 EDT
From: tix!roman at uunet.UU.NET (Daniel Roman)
Subject: Re: Extract Brewing

Definition:  (from American Heritage)

Brew (brewed, brewing, brewer)- 1. To make (ale or beer) from malt and
hops by infusion, boiling, and fermentation.  2. To make (a beverage) by
boiling, steeping, *or* mixing various ingredients.

Beer- A fermented alcoholic beverage brewed from malt and flavored with
hops.

(asterisks are my additions for emphasis)

>From the above definitions I contend that extract brewers can refer to
themselves as brewers and so can somebody who puts a tea bag into a cup
of hot water.  The AHA refers to extract brewers as "brewers", that's 
more important to me than a dictionary definition.  According to the
dictionary, if you take the alcohol out of beer, it's no longer beer!
If you extract brew and want to be dictionary legit, just add some hop
pellets and then you pass the "infusion" or "steep" requirement.  After
all, you WILL be extracting flavor from the hops and that'll satisfy the
dictionary (if you care).  

Just wanted to point out that the dictionary is too narrow minded (?).
I extract brew and all-grain brew.  Extract brewing is commonly refered
to as "extract brewing" even by Jack on this thread.  If you are brewing
you are a brewer.  Even the dictionary lumps these terms brewing and
brewer together in the same definition.

Relax, don't worry, have a homebrew and proudly call yourself a brewer,
*I* consider you one.
- -- 
______________________________________________________________________
Dan Roman           |     ///          Internet:  roman_d at timeplex.com
Timeplex Inc.       | \\\///              GEnie:  D.ROMAN1
Woodcliff Lake, NJ  |  \XX/ Only AMIGA!      Homebrew is better brew.
======================================================================

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Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 09:19:12 -0500
From: Daniel Paul Checkman <dpc47852 at uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #861 (April 10, 1992)

I once saw a recipe for locust beer, but being in California, it was difficult
to find any locust trees; however, they are all over Illinois, so I would like o try making some locust beer here.  The only problem is that I can't find the
recipe, and I was wondering if anyone had it.  It was on a handout I got in a
high school Brit. Lit. class with recipes of mead and sack mead as well.  If 
anyone knows the source for the handout, I'd love that, too.

 -Dan <dpc47852 at uxa.cso.uiuc.edu

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Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 9:31:19 CDT
From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec)
Subject: kudos to HBD appends/burners

Recent postings on mead, yeast technology, Wisconsin breweries, and
recipes have all been great!

Paul Sherrill asks about burners.  Alternative Beverage of Charlotte,
North Carolina, carries a propane cooker with baffle.  Full tilt, it
produces 125K BTUs of heat.  It'll bring the collected sparged wort to
a boil in 10 minutes, at which point you have to turn it down to control
the boil.  But, talk about getting a rolling boil!  The cooker includes
6 feet of gas hose and a high pressure regulator and needle valve.  The
list price in the current catalog is $59.95, and shipping weight is 
13 pounds.  You'll also need a propane tank, like you see in people's
back yards or on their campers.  Tanks go for $20-30.  Propane refills
cost around $7-8, and last for numbers of boils.  ABs phone number is
1-800-365-BREW.  For safety, among other reasons, I recommend using
this setup outdoors.

I've noticed that Service Merchandise carries "back yard" propane 
gas grills.  One of the least pricy ones had 4 legs and stood like a
table, and was priced around $80. 

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Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 09:58:53 -0400
From: matth at bedford.progress.COM
Subject: Disposing of 10 pounds of spent grain


In HOMEBREW Digest #861 Jask S. States:

 In the interests of insulting no one in particular, I have eliminated citing 
 the source of this particular insanity.  HOWEVER, the idea of dumping 10 
 pounds of spent grain into a garbage disposal is an act of personal 
 irresponsibility that staggers me.  I find it hard to put my outrage into 
 words.  Instead of just being outraged, let me suggest a few alternatives.
 
 Put it in your garbage can.
 
 Find a friend with a garden.
 
 Find an empty lot.
 
 Make lots of beer bread.
 
 Go back to extract brewing.


I'd like to make a personal observation here

  While putting the garins into the disposal might seem like a bad idea, in 
*most* places it's not a bad idea.  The drain pipe from the sink goes to the 
same place as the rest of the house, meaning a treatment plant.  It's far better
for the environment (since that appears to be the issue here) to have it go
there than to:

  1) Put it in a garbage can
     Where it will most likely end up in a landfill where it could take years to
     decompose.  Going through the treatment plant will take days, not years.

  2) Find a friend with a garden.
     I like this idea, but 10 pounds is an awful lot when you consider that it
     should be mixed with other stuff (grass cuttings, peat moss)...  You get
    a fairly large pile.  But, This is *my* favorite anyway.  Composting

  3) Find an empty lot.
     I'm going to just pretend this isn't on the list

  4) Make lots of beer bread.
     A good idea for some, but not for others.  

  5) Go back to extract brewing.
     But is this *reallY* brewing?  !-) !-) !-) !-)


 -Matth

          Matthew J. Harper ! Progress Software Corp. ! {disclaimer.i}         
   God created heaven and earth to grow barley and hops. Now he homebrews !-)  

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Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 09:32 CDT
From: akcs.chrisc at vpnet.chi.il.us (chris campanelli)
Subject: outdoor burners

     I'm aware of three types of portable propane burners currently on
the market, although I'm sure there are more:

     Metal Fusion, Inc.
     623 Maria St.
     Kenner, LA  70062
     (504) 469-6431

     - This company makes a burner that is best described as a rocked
engine in disquise.  It is a 125,000 BTU monster that I once saw bring 6
gallons of wort to a boil in under 10 minutes!  I have seen this burner
listed in Alternative Beverage's (of North Carolina) catalog for $59.95. 
Their price includes a regulator with a six foot hose.  This burner was
also the subject of the product review article in the Zymurgy Summer 1991
issue and appears on the cover of same.

     Superb Gas Products Co.
     423 S. Church St.
     PO Box 99
     Belleville, IL  62222
     (618) 234-6169

     - This company makes a wide variety of outdoor burners and cookers. 
I have purchased two burners from them.  The burners in question are
Model 16-20E.  This type is 35,000 BTU and they sell for $59.95.  The
price includes a regulator with a four foot hose and shipping & handling.
 They mail free brochures.

     Great Fermentations of Santa Rosa
     PO Box 428 
     Fulton, CA  95439
     1-800-544-1867

     - This homebrewing supply store does not make burners but sells a
31,000 BTU burner.  The burner is pictured in their catalog and sells for
$64.95.  The price includes a regulator with a five foot hose.  They mail
free catalogs as well.

     With all types listed above, you will need a fuel source.  Some
people like to tap into their existing natural gas line, others prefer
the "Weber Grill" type of tanks.  I will not get into the pros or cons of
which is better.  Ask around and judge for yourself.  I will say that the
tanks can be purchased at places like Sears, Kmart, etc. for around
$20.00.  

     I have been using my burners in the basement without any problems
regarding fumes or vapors.  As my house is rather old and drafty, this
may or may not be the reason.  I will point out that water vapor will be
a BIG problem and the resulting condensation on the walls, doors, floors
and windows gets to be a real mop up job.

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Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 12:04:51 cdt
From: "Olzenak,Craig" <OLZENAK at AC.GRIN.EDU>
Subject: Vienna

Greetings All!

Many thanks to Laurie Fix for the recent list of corrections to their 
fantastic book.  I remember well George's AHA Nationals talk in Denver back 
in June '87.  Now there's someone EXCITED about beer!  I happened to be 
judging the Vienna style that year and (as many of you know), we awarded 1st 
place to - you guessed it! - George.  A marvelous beer!

One quick question to yo two, as I didn't see it listed on the errata posting 
 - What jumped out at me as possible errors were the L. listing of the English 
caramel malt on pages 56 and 57.  In the previous recipes you list 120 L. 
(I'm very fond of dark crystal malt!).  Do you really mean 20 L. for the 
Modern Viennese Mild and Traditional Oktoberfest/Maerzan?

Many thanks!

And, looking forward to Milwaukee!

Craig Olzenak
Heartland Homebrew Club
Grinnell, Iowa

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Date: 10 Apr 1992  13:13 EDT
From: dab at dasher.cc.bellcore.com (dave ballard)
Subject: using sourdough culture in brew



Okay, someone tell me if this is sick or something.  A friend of mine
(actually, the great Oz of the exploding carboy) has a sourdough
culture that he's had in the fridge for about 4 years.  He just scoops 
out what he needs whenever he wants to do a loaf of sourdough bread.
The stuff is pretty scary looking, in fact if you stare at it long
enough it starts to breathe.  Anyway, I was thinking about doing
a small batch (~1g) of ale and throwing in a handful of the sourdough
stuff to try to make some sort of bizarre lambic.

So what do you think?  Should I have my brewing toys taken away from 
me?  Am I onto something great?  Will it grow hair on my tongue?  
Will it make me a REAL HOMEBREWER? I saw someone on r.c.b mention the 
idea today, so at least I'm not alone...

iko-
dab

=========================================================================
dave ballard			"Life may not be the party we hoped for,
dab at dasher.cc.bellcore.com       but while we're here we should dance."
=========================================================================


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Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 11:37:39 -0700
From: Michael.Burgeson at Eng.Sun.COM (J. Michael Burgeson)
Subject: Grain mill

I just received my Marcato grain mill, and thought I would review
it for the HBD.

First a description: The mill is about 8" high, and 7" wide.  It has
3 rollers arranged in an inverted triangle.  The rollers are about
1" in diameter, and have diagonal grooves from grabbing the grain.
There is an adjustment knob on one side which moves one of the top
rollers (roller "B" in picture) in a circular pattern, which allows 
semi-independent adjustment of the distance from the other two rollers.
The unit comes with a hand crank, a small hopper, and a catching 
container.

           _                _
        '     `         '     `
      /   -->   \     /  <--    \
           A               B  
     |     .     |   |     0     |
                            
      \         /     \         /
       ` . _ . '       ` . _ . '
	           _
		'     `
	      /   -->   \
		   C 
	     |     .     |
	      
	      \         /
	       ` . _ . '

For making flour, "B" is moved close to "C", and far from "A";  "AB" will
crack the grain, and "BC" will grind it to flour.  For our purposes, 
"B" is moved far from both "A" and "C";  "AB" will crack the grain, and
"BC" will do nothing. 

I ran some Munich malt through the Marcato, and compared the results
to malt crushed with Jack's MALTMILL, and the Corona mill.  Crush and
throughput on a scale of 1-10.  All comments are IMHBBHO (in my highly
biased but humble opinion).

Marcato:    The malt looked "squished", with very few small husk particles.
            Left no uncrushed grains.
            Overall, a very good crush: 8.
	    Throughput: 4.
	    Disadvantages:  Hopper is too small.  Kinda slow.  
	    Disclaimer:  Did not test with electric motor, or high RPM.

MALTMILL:   The crush was mostly half-husks with some grain appearing intact,
	    but they would crumble between your fingers.  
	    A very good crush: 9.
	    Throughput (with 1/2" electric drill): 8.
	    Disadvantages:  Did not hold up under excessive RPM.  Adjustment
			    of roller distance is only at one end.

Corona:     Lots of small husk particles.  Powdered husk material.  Lots
	    (~10%) grain uncrushed.
	    OK crush: 5.
	    Throughput: 2.
	    Disadvantages:  Too many small husk particles.  Too slow.


Now the important part;  The Marcato Grain Mill cost me $73.50.  I ordered
it through a local (Redwood City, CA) kitchen supply warehouse (look in
the yellow pages under "Cooking Utensils").  

IMHBBHO, I consider the Marcato mill an excellent alternative to the 
MALTMILL, as long as you are not overly concerned with throughput.  I
am very impressed with the crush, and the price isn't too bad.

I am not associated with any of the products mentioned in this article
in any way, except for being a satisfied owner of a Marcato grain mill.

Michael Burgeson

   ____/   __  _  /  _   _  /
  /       /  _/  /  /  _/  /
______/ _/     _/ _/     _/


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Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 13:17:26 CDT
From: Jacob Galley <gal2 at midway.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Re: reusing yeast

Davis McPherson wonders:

> 	i interesting in learning about reusing yeast now that i'm brewing
> 	with liquid yeast...i have heard that its possible to rack a new
> 	batch of wort onto the yeast cake from a previous batch...anyone
> 	with information on procedures for doing this please e-mail...

I have recently been reading over Father Barleywine's posts from last
September, where I believe he introduces the "yeast cake" concept.
(He does however cite his earlier posts during a spat circa HBD 600,
which I have not had time to sift through yet.) I just want to get
something straight: the term "cake" brings to mind a rather dry, hard
object. I am just assuming that this is not a state which I want to
preserve yeast in. The Father is simply talking about reusing
(uncaked) slurry, which has lots of live yeast in it -- isn't he?

As for Davis's specific question, the method Father Barleywine preaches 
is to start your next batch as soon as you bottle the last one,
without removing the slurry [my interpretation, see above] or cleaning
the carboy at all. This way, you keep lots of the yeast from the last
batch, and if you're really quick, you can start your next batch
before hoards of nasty infections plague your ferementing container.

Jake.

Reinheitsgebot <-- "Keep your laws off my beer!" <-- gal2 at midway.uchicago.edu


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Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 14:10:35 CDT
From: Jacob Galley <gal2 at midway.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Killer head!

Another question:

Have noticed a tendency for my beers to produce a rediculous amount of
foam as they mature. My latest example is a light ginger lager which
I bottled about three months ago. At this point, if I pour it (out of
the fridge) into a glass at room temperature, *ALL* of it turns to
foam! Into a chilled glass, and I get less than an inch of beer and the
rest is foam. I resorted to drinking out of the bottle, but as soon as
it hits my palate it turns to FOAM. The CO2 flies out of solution so
fast I can barely hold it in my mouth! Also, if I simply wait
patiently for beer to collect underneath the foam in the glass, it is
quite flat. And this used to be my best batch!

So let me describe my technique. I am still a lowly extract brewer.
In all my beers so far I have added a third of a stick of brewer's
licorice (30 minute boil or so). I boil about two gallons of wort for
a five gallon batch, and pour it into a carboy with two gallons
of cold water, and then fill it to the top with cold water. I let the
trub fall out over night, rack, and pitch.

I know there's lots of room for improvement in my procedure, and when
I have the time, energy and money all at once, I will improve. Until
then I am asking you-all out there "Are there any specific
adjustments I can make that will prevent this weird heading behavior?"

Thanks,
Jake.

Reinheitsgebot <-- "Keep your laws off my beer!" <-- gal2 at midway.uchicago.edu

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Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 13:21 PST
From: "Mark Alfino, Dept. of Philosophy" <ALFINO%GONZAGA.BITNET at CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject: subscribing to list

Dear Homebrew Moderator;

Please add my name to the distribution list for your discussion group.  I
am an amateur homebrewer in Spokane, WA.

Thanks.

Dr. Mark Alfino
Department of Philosophy
Gonzaga University
Spokane, WA  99258-0001

Bitnet: Alfino at Gonzaga
FAX: (509) 484-2818
Voice: (509) 328-4220 x3353


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Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 17:27:24 -0400
From: Subhash Chandra Roy <roy at mcnc.org>
Subject: Steam Beer Recipee


Here's a recipe for a steam beer, That has finally lagered 
long enough to taste.

6.6 American Classic Light Malt Extract 
1/2 lbs 10L Crystal Malt
1/2 lbs 20L Crystal Malt
1 1/2 oz Tettnanger hops (60 min)
1/4 oz Tettnanger hops (30 min)
3/4 oz Hallertauer hops (30 min)
1/4 oz Tettnanger hops (10 min)
1/4 oz Hattertauer hops (10 min)

1 oz Kent Golding hops (dry hop)

1 teaspoon salt
1 1/2 teaspoons Gypsum

1/2 cup of honey (priming)
Wyeast Steam Beer yeast

Original Gravity 1.049
Terminal Gravity 1.009

Two stage fermentation 
    1st stage -- 10 days  at  72F
    2nd stage -- 26 days  at  50F


Crack the crystal malt and add to 1 gallon of water and bring to a boil
then strain off the wort.  Add the extract and return to a boil.  Add the
hops  at  the given times. Cool wort and pitch yeast.

Subhash 

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Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 23:46 CDT
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: BREWING, SPENT GRAIN

 
 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling
 
 >From: bgros at sensitivity.berkeley.edu (Bryan Gros)
 >Subject: brewing definition
 
 >Why is making tea usually called "brewing"?  no fermentation involved.
 
 Fundamental to the brewing process is STEEPING and that is how tea is 
 prepared and how mashing extracts sugar from malt.
 
 Fermentation is NOT integral to brewing, it is an optional additional step.
 
 >And while we're at it, making wine (and mead i guess) should
 also be referred to as brewing.
 
 Not unless you steep (yuck) the grapes.
 
                           ............
 
 In my never ending quest for new uses for spent grain and to KEEP IT OUT OF 
 GARBAGE DISPOSALS, it gives me great pleasure to announce that MEALS WORMS 
 like spent grain.
 
 I have been raising meal worms for a number of years to supply food for my 
 menagerie ranging from toads to bats.  Two months ago I started a colony on 
 spent grain.  I started the colony with 10 pupae so that they would have to 
 change into adult beetles, mature, have sex, lay eggs and hatch with no other 
 source of food than spent grain.
 
 Well, this morning I found a zillion little worms which seems to prove that 
 there is no end to what one can do with this stuff.  The only problem is that 
 most of the moisture must be removed so it doesn't rot but that is easy 
 enough to do.
 
 So don't be surprised if your local brew pub starts to offer meal worms along 
 with it's beer and beer bread.  Watch for some really creative marketing.  
 Something along the lines of:
 
  "Yuppie Micro-brats, go great with our micro beer, eat 'em by the hundreds 
 and never get that stuffed feeling".
 
 Then, I really get excited thinking about McMicro-brats.....  
 
 Over one million sold, every minute, in fact, on every bun.  To hell with 
 malt mills and videos, my future is in worms..
 
 js

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Date: 11 Apr 92 12:29:19 EDT
From: Rob Nelson <70206.1316 at compuserve.com>
Subject: I'm Dirt!

 
A few posts ago, I mentioned that I was able to jam 10 lbs of spent grain
down the garbage disposal.  This brought about some discussion about the
environmental soundness of this practice.  I checked with our local sewage
treatment plant and was saddened to learn that my practice of flushing 50
pounds a month was responsible for the extinction of the Pacific Sockeye
Salmon run.  Additionally, several of the local dairies have reported three
headed calves.  Elementary IQ test averages have dropped to 41.  Acid rain
has been reported in the Cascades.  I'M DIRT!  I DON'T DESERVE TO LIVE!
KILL ME NOW BEFORE I FLUSH AGAIN!.
 
Seriously, I deeply and sincerely thank those who straightend me out.  My
spent grains will now be adding dietary fiber to some local hogs.
 
On the subject of REAL HOMEBREWING, let me add my own $0,000.02.  I've
developed a system that has won many regional contests that involves neither
extract or mashing.  The tools are ammonia, a bottle capper and a magic
marker.  I soak some fine commercial beer bottles in an ammonia solution,
scrape off the label, re-cap the bottle with a generic cap and write a
cryptic code on the cap.  I'm improving the technique by super-chilling
those beers that come in easily recognized bottles so that I may decant them
into standard long necks.  I sent a McEwans, an Anchor Steam, a Budweiser
and a Sierra Nevada Stout to the AHA nationals this year.  I'll see you in
the winner's circle.
 
Rob Nelson, Seattle Brews Brothers.



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Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 17:12:06 -0400
From: ukcy at sunyit.edu (Kevin Yager)
Subject: Cherry Pie Filling

        I have been given about 20 lbs of cherry pie filling.  I would like to
ferment this stuff.  I was wondering if it will work or if there is something
special I should do?  (besides adding water and yeast)

INGREDIENTS:  red tart pitted charries, water, sugar, corn syrup, starch,
1/10 % benzoate of soda, potassium sorbate, citric acid, certified color.

Thanks in advance.


- -- 
                                    Kevin Yager

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"There are 3 kinds of liars. Liars, damn liars, and statistics." - Mark Twain

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Date:         Sun, 12 Apr 92 18:49:51 EDT
From: Heather Godsey <GODSEYHM%DUVM.BITNET at pucc.Princeton.EDU>
Subject:      cats meow & mead


Two things:
can someone tell me how to get a hold of the cat's meow recipie list?

and about mead-  with all the discussion of mead I'd not seen any mention of
making mead without boiling (ie usng campden tabs).  I've made several batches
without boiling & had no problems or dissapointments.  Has anyone done a side
by side comparison of batches boiling vs not boiling??  It just seems that boil
 -ing drives off the volitles that you're trying to preserve.  Grape wine is not
made by boiling, no?

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #862, 04/13/92