FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Re: outdoor burners (wegeng.henr801c)
  Extract vs. All-Grain (John DeCarlo)
  Homegrow hops vs quality control (Dave Wiley)
  Disposing of spent grains (nnieuwej)
  Stuck (no start) fermentation (ZLPAJGN)
  Stuck ferment? (Matthias Blumrich)
  HB856,Sources for honey (JLAWRENCE)
  Propane Burners... (stevie)
  Kegging the inexpensive way. ("DRCV06::GRAHAM")
  Locust Beer (Sterling Udell)
  Pale Ale (Steve Davis)
  Boulevard Beer ("Ken Schriner" )
  Re: Killer head! (korz)
  RE: Homebrew Digest #854 (April 01, 1992) ("If you hurl,and she bolts it was never meant to be")
  Foaming sourdough brews (Jeff Frane)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 	Mon, 13 Apr 1992 06:07:09 PDT
From: wegeng.henr801c at xerox.com
Subject: Re: outdoor burners

Several of the Rochester, NY area discount stores are carrying a "fish cooker",
which is basically a propane burner attached to a sturdy metal stand.  The
stand elevates the burner up to waist height.  According to the printing on the
box, the burner puts out 160,000 BTUs!  Cost range is US$59-69, and includes
the burner, stand, hose, regulator, a couple gallon aluminum pot, and a
strainer.  I saw this product this past weekend at KMart, WalMart, and Sam`s
Wholesale Club (which had the lowest price), so there`s a good chance that
readers can find it locally.

/Don
wegeng.henr801c at xerox.com

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Date: Monday, 13 Apr 1992 09:30:32 EDT
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject:  Extract vs. All-Grain

Well, I usually compare cooking and brewing using something like
the following:

Extract brewing can be anywhere from using a cake mix to which
you add water and bake (simple kits or brewbags) to buying the
flour, eggs, etc. separately and mixing them up to bake (using
unhopped extracts of specific types to which you add hops and
all the other ingredients you need).

All-grain brewing can be anywhere from simply grinding your own
flour to growing and making your own flour and raising your own
eggs, etc.

In essence, the usual "making a cake from scratch" is still more
like extract brewing than all-grain, if your "scratch" is
store-bought flour, eggs, butter, etc.

Oh, and BTW, those interested in the environment and in growing
plants, but live in apartments, can get indoor composters that
don't smell for composting your grains.

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 9:54:16 CDT
From: wiley at wiley.b11.ingr.com (Dave Wiley)
Subject: Homegrow hops vs quality control

A little philosophical math for you:

	  growing my own hops for the first time  (Yay!)
	+ an article by Quentin B. Smith - "Matching Hops with Beer Styles"
	+ a temporary shortage of homebrew
	  -------------------------------
	= an epiphany
	

One passage in the article read as follows:

	"All suppliers should provide this [alpha acid % of hops]
	to you as as a standard practice.  You cannot consistently
	brew duplicate or award-winning beers without it."

For the record, I agree, but this particular passage left me with a
dilemma.  I am growing my own hops to improve the flavor of my beer,
but by doing so I am drastically limitting my ability to finely
control hopping levels.  Of what value is better beer if I shall
never see my name in lights above the AHA?

I needed to think.  I needed a homebrew.  I had none.  My gaze
wandered over to where four entries for The National Homebrew
competition lay securely trussed for shipment.  Hmmm.  Ah, what the
hell.  I ripped open the "Club Porter" and commenced to drink it on
the spot.  This was satisfaction.  Pure black manna.  Isn't this why I
brew?  Do I really care to match what someone else's opinion on what
perfect porterness is?

The answer is astonishingly simple.  Yes and no.  Yes, I would like
to be able to approximate the canonical beer styles.  Yes, I
appreciate having a nomenclature so that we can discuss flavor
somewhat objectively, and so I have an idea of what to expect before
I open a beer.  Yes, I enjoy and appreciate the fine feedback I've
gotten from judges over the years.  In the final analysis, however, I
would much rather concentrate on making beers that taste good rather
nailing particular styles consistently.  If choosing to grow my own
hops means diminishing my chances for national accolades, so be it. 
On this occasion I choose to relax.

Whee!  I'm free!

I think I'll celebrate by buying some oak chips.  :-)

- -- 
david wiley               "I met my latest girl friend in a department store.
Intergraph Corporation     She was looking at clothes, and I was putting
205-730-6390               Slinkys on the escalators."
wiley at wiley.b11.ingr.com   			              - Steven Wright

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Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 11:24:33 -0400
From: nnieuwej at pooh.bowdoin.edu
Subject: Disposing of spent grains

	Last friday I had the exquisite pleasure of touring the
D.L. Geary Brewing Company in Portland (Maine, not the other one :),
producers of such nectars as Geary's Pale Ale and Hampshire Ale.
I don't have time today for a complete review, but one will be
following shortly.
	Anyway, to get to the nub of my gist: they brew almost every day
and each brew uses 1000 lbs of 2-row barley (I'm getting goosebumps
just thinking about it :).  I asked the guide/ass't brewmaster what
they did with all their spent grains.  He said that a local farmer comes
by every brewing day in his pickup truck and takes it home to his
cattle.

Just adding a data point.

 -Nils

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Date:    Mon, 13 Apr 92 11:08 CDT
From: ZLPAJGN%LUCCPUA.bitnet at UICVM.UIC.EDU
Subject: Stuck (no start) fermentation


Dear Homebrewers,

First of all, thanks to all for their experience and advise regarding
my latest batch of "Propensity Lager."  I bottled the batch last Thurs.
and all went relatively well.  Many suggested that, because I was using
honey (as called for in the recipe) I might wait the full 2 weeks before
bottling, if not a little longer.  But I just couldn't wait, so I
bottled...  And, to make a long story short, my impatience got the best
of me again on Sunday and I snuck a peek!  Peoples, let me tell y'all
it was great!  Beautiful, even!  The head was delicate and golden, with
persistant retention.  Yes it was a bit premature and not quite cleared,
but if what I tasted was any indication greater things to come...  Well,
sufice to say I may never buy commercial beer again... Well, OK, maybe
a rare import now and again...  Once or twice a week... Three times at
most...  on the weekends...  or on an odd Thursday... But never at dusk!

Anyway, onto the subject at hand.

I brewed up another batch the day after bottling the Lager (Hey! I don't
want to be caught empty handed). I forgot to bring in the recipe, but
it's something like this:
           1 lb pale malt extract (dry)
           1 lb corn sugar
           2 oz freshly grated ginger root
           1 oz spruce essence (approx.)
           1 Tbs lemon juice
           1/4 oz Tett. hops (boil)   (they were leftovers)
           1/4 oz Tett. hops (finishing)
I boiled first three ingredients with Tett hops for 1/2 hour, added the
spruce, lemon, and finishing hops for the last 2 mins.  Cooled and then
strained into carboy and pitched 1 pkg dry Doric Lager yeast.  Oh, yeah,
the total volumn of this brew is approx. 2 1/2 gals., and it's been
sitting in my pantry since Friday.  And, herein lies the problem: it's
just sitting there!  There's been NO activity whatsoever - no kreausen,
no bubbles through the lock... All's quiet on the yeastern front, so to
speak.  Well, almost.  This morning (Mon.) there was slooowww activity
through the lock, but no Kreausen forming, nor bubbles in the wort.

Now, when I pitched, I had just cooled the wort, and strained it into
the carboy.  There was a LOT of splashing, and a subsequent foam at the
surface.  I pitched on top of the foam, then carefully swirrled the brew
to distribute the yeast, but I think this is where the problem is.  Also
the temperature's been a constant 65 F, and I've sinse *gently* agitated
the wort a few times to wake up the yeast.  This seemed to work, if the
activity this morning (if it can be called this) is any indication.

So, knowledgible illuminati, PLEASE help!!  I'm as stuck for direction
as my fermentation is.  Plus, it's going on three days, with only
MINIMAL fermentation.  As time is of the essence, please e-mail me
directly, or even call me at home {(312) 275-5929}; I'm nearing panic!
(Then again, maybe it's time for another sneak preview of the Propensity
Lager and not worry :-)  )

Thanks,

John

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Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 12:23:11 -0400
From: Matthias Blumrich <mb at Princeton.EDU>
Subject: Stuck ferment?

I brewed a pale ale using M&F extra light extract and Whitbread ale
yeast Saturday night and have it in a 7 gallon plastic primary with a
blowoff tube.  By last night the ferment appeared to be stuck because
there was no more bubbling in the blowoff.  When I opened it this
morning there was about a 1 inch head of krausen (sp?) on top.  A few
minutes after closing it, I heard the plastic lid flex and then it
started bubbling away again for a few minutes before stopping.  Could
it be that the pressure flexes the lid and breaks the seal, and the CO2
is escaping from the sides?  Note that there is a lot of pressure
inside because if I just press down lightly anywhere I get bubbles.
Could it be that I didn't aerate it enough?  If so, what can I do?  Any
help is appreciated.

 - Matt -

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Date: 13 Apr 1992 11:20:15 -0600 (MDT)
From: JLAWRENCE at UH01.Colorado.EDU
Subject: HB856,Sources for honey

   Brian Smithey asked about sources for quantities of honey.

   The National Honey Board is located in Longmont, CO, 421
21st Ave, (303)776-2337, and may be able to give you some
information.  Also, look in your yellow pages under "Honey".
There's retail/wholesale distributor listed in the Longmont
phone book (Madhava Honey, 4689 Ute Hwy, (303)823-5116), and
you may be able to find one closer to you.

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Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 12:25:48 CDT
From: stevie at spss.com
Subject: Propane Burners...

The 125K BTU "rocket" burner described by Tony Babinec (he and I ordered them 
from Alternative Beverage at the same time) and Chris Campanelli is also known
comercially as a "Cajun Cooker."  If you've ever seen this name used, now you
know they are one and the same.

As Tony mentioned, this burner really produces a fast, rolling boil.  It has
easily cut at least an hour off my brewing time.  Some use it strictly for the
boil, but I have had great results using it during mashing as well.  You have
to make sure to use the baffle and be careful about the intensity of the flame,
or you risk some burning and caramelizing.  A vigorous mixing of the mash to 
spread the heat seems to prevent this, however.

Also, for some reason, the burner is painted black.  I recommend that you try
to burn off much of the paint before using it, or else you'll have a very 
messy clean-up, even with stainless.

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Date: 13 Apr 92 12:34:00 EDT
From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <graham%drcv06.decnet at drcvax.af.mil>
Subject: Kegging the inexpensive way.

I just got my catalog from St. Patrick's of Texas and saw their kegging 
system was only $155.  I called to make sure it wasn't a misprint and 
found out that not only was it correct, but If I would settle for a 
reconditioned regulator, it was only $140!

This is outrageous.  I'm saying goodbye to my bottles, right now!  (Anyone 
want six dozen Grolsch bottles, not quite free?)

I notice St. Patrick's other prices are very good, too.  This one, however, 
was too good not to share.  They're at 512 532-9045.

I'm not going to join the stampede to make sure you realize I'm not 
connected with them.  It doesn't make any difference.  The deal is real and 
mentioning is of benefit to all.  So what if I get $175 for each system 
they sell. [grin]

Dan


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Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 14:12:40 EDT
From: sterling at bifur.umcs.maine.edu (Sterling Udell)
Subject: Locust Beer

Just wait'll mid-June in Illinois.  You'll have more locusts than you
know what to do with.

:)	:)	:)

String
- --
Sterling Udell (sterling at gandalf.umcs.maine.edu, sterling at gandalf.bitnet)
Big Dog Brewing Cooperative - Eastern Division
"In the Fine Tradition of Armageddon . . ."
					- Big Dog Ragnarok Oatmeal Bock




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Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 15:17:56 GMT-0500
From: sdavis at laforge.ksc.nasa.gov (Steve Davis)
Subject: Pale Ale


Greetings...

  A friend and I have recently started brewing again (yesterday, in  
fact!); we haven't done a batch since college.  (In our case, that's  
only a couple of years, but that's beside the point...)

  Anyway, we were wondering if anyone had a good recipe for a Pale  
Ale, such as Bass.  We have the "Complete Joy of Homebrewing," which  
includes a recipe for "India Pale Ale," but have never tried it.  Has  
anyone had any success with this?  Is there anything better out  
there?

  Keep in mind that we are still at the novice stage... most of our  
brews have been made from a combination of canned and dry malt  
extract, adding some grain now and then with some success.

  Please respond directly, if possible; I'll post a summary to the  
list later.

Regards,

Steve Davis
Kennedy Space Center, FL
internet:  sdavis at laforge.ksc.nasa.gov

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Date:     13 Apr 92 14:37:52 CST
From: "Ken Schriner" <KENS at saturn.uark.edu>
Subject:  Boulevard Beer

I spent Friday in Kansas City, Kansas.  I had visited boulevard
brewery several years ago when the only beer they made was the pale
ale, and only in kegs.  They are now up to at least four different
types.  (That's how many the liquor store I was in had.) I of course
bought a six pack of each.  For the low price of $5.79 a six pack.

The six packs were actually little boxes that completely enclosed the
six dark brown bottles.  They are using screwtop caps.  Boxes to keep
out the light, brown bottles for the same, screwtop caps.  Are they
trying to make me like this beer before I even open it?

Pale Ale.  Just like I remember it.  A little fruity.  Three types of
hops.  Cascade for aroma.  Can't remember the other two.  Good
maltiness and good mouth feel.  Was great with shrimp.  Dark golden
color.  Very nice.

Irish Ale.  Fruitier.  Tangier.  Darker (a little.)  It seemed like a
variation of the Pale Ale.  I wouldn't give this to non-home brew
friends, its taste is a little farther from their palatte path than
they be willing to accept, or appreciate.  Was great after a pale ale.
A little drier than the pale ale.

Wheat Beer.  Why does every brewery in Kansas feel compelled to brew
a wheat beer?  Unlike Free State Brewing in Lawrence KS., boulevard
brew actually has an enjoyable wheat brew.  Very clear, very light.
Less carbonated than either of the ales.  The six-box said it is
brewed with 25% soft red winter wheat grown locally.  Also mentioned
that it used two types of yeast in the fermenting process.  Do they
do things right or what?

Bully Porter.  Stupid name, but another great beer.  A little light
colored for a porter (I thought).  It was light brown to amber in
color.  Very smooth.  could easily taste the chocolate malt
written about on the six box.  The taste was not overpowering though.
Great with a few peanuts.  It had a strong enough hop nose to balance
the stronger malt taste.  Overall, it was great also.

All of the above are shipped with a label that has Best If Comsumed
By:.  The lady at the liquor store said that they wouldn't let them
have the beer past the date either.  What a class brewing
establishment.  $5.79 a sixer?  That seems a ridiculously low price
for such quality beer.

Are there other folks out there from the KC area that have experience
with Boulevard Beer?






















Ken Schriner                            BITNET  ks06054 at uafsysb
University of Arkansas                Internet  kens at saturn.uark.edu

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Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 14:34 CDT
From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
Subject: Re: Killer head!

Jake asks about a beer which overcarbonates after a while.

There are three common causes for beer to overcarbonate:

1. bottling too soon,
2. infection, and
3. too much priming sugar.

If the beer is only correctly carbonated during weeks 2, 3 and 4
after bottling, then I suspect either reason #1 or #3.  I wait
till my airlock bubbles less than once every 3 minutes before I
bottle.  [Note that there are many additional variables such as
stuck fermentation due to big, sudden temparature changes, etc.,
but I won't address them here.]  If you are using corn sugar for
priming, you should probably not use more than 1 cup.

If the beer is correctly carbonated two weeks after bottling and
not overcarbonated for three months, but then begins to overcarbonate,
then it's probably reason #2.  Reassess all your sanitation.

Al.

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Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 14:05:02 PDT
From: "If you hurl,and she bolts it was never meant to be" <b_turnbaugh at csc32.enet.dec.com>
Subject: RE: Homebrew Digest #854 (April 01, 1992)

Does anyone out there know where I can order Kent Golding hop rhizomes???
I would really appreciate any leads!!!  Thanks Bob T.

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Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 10:58:26 PDT
From: hpupora.nsr.hp.com!tessi!nosun!techbook.com!gummitch at hp-pcd.cv.hp.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Foaming sourdough brews

> Date: 10 Apr 1992  13:13 EDT
> From: dab at dasher.cc.bellcore.com (dave ballard)
> Subject: using sourdough culture in brew
> 
> Okay, someone tell me if this is sick or something.  A friend of mine
> (actually, the great Oz of the exploding carboy) has a sourdough
> culture that he's had in the fridge for about 4 years.  He just scoops 
> out what he needs whenever he wants to do a loaf of sourdough bread.
> The stuff is pretty scary looking, in fact if you stare at it long
> enough it starts to breathe.  Anyway, I was thinking about doing
> a small batch (~1g) of ale and throwing in a handful of the sourdough
> stuff to try to make some sort of bizarre lambic.
> 
> So what do you think?  Should I have my brewing toys taken away from 
> me?  Am I onto something great?  Will it grow hair on my tongue?  
> Will it make me a REAL HOMEBREWER? I saw someone on r.c.b mention the 
> idea today, so at least I'm not alone...
> 
Dave,

I can't get you the reference on this since it's in a cookbook at my
ex-wife's (Yaaaaaah!), but apparently the Alaskan goldminers
(sourdoughs) use to take great care of their cultures, keeping them in
their shirts on really cold nights.  They also occasionally used them to
make beer (?) although I don't know what they used for malt (syrup?. At
any rate, even the miners rated this stuff pretty low; one anecdote
had a bunch brewing some sourdough beer up in a barrel and drinking it
out of the same barrel.  One fellow toppled in while trying to dipper
out the last bit; his buddies were too befuddled to haul him out and he
died.  Better stick to small batches!  Seems to me sourdough culture
includes one or more yeasts and an array of bacteria; if it made good
beer then you could achieve "lambics" in places like Alaska, San
Francisco and Poland, where the sourdough combination exists in the
atmosphere.


> From: Jacob Galley <gal2 at midway.uchicago.edu>
> Subject: Killer head!
> 
> Another question:
> 
> Have noticed a tendency for my beers to produce a rediculous amount of
> foam as they mature. My latest example is a light ginger lager which
> I bottled about three months ago. At this point, if I pour it (out of
> the fridge) into a glass at room temperature, *ALL* of it turns to
> foam! Into a chilled glass, and I get less than an inch of beer and the
> rest is foam. I resorted to drinking out of the bottle, but as soon as
> it hits my palate it turns to FOAM. The CO2 flies out of solution so
> fast I can barely hold it in my mouth! Also, if I simply wait
> patiently for beer to collect underneath the foam in the glass, it is
> quite flat. And this used to be my best batch!
> 
> So let me describe my technique. I am still a lowly extract brewer.
> In all my beers so far I have added a third of a stick of brewer's
> licorice (30 minute boil or so). I boil about two gallons of wort for
> a five gallon batch, and pour it into a carboy with two gallons
> of cold water, and then fill it to the top with cold water. I let the
> trub fall out over night, rack, and pitch.
> 
> I know there's lots of room for improvement in my procedure, and when
> I have the time, energy and money all at once, I will improve. Until
> then I am asking you-all out there "Are there any specific
> adjustments I can make that will prevent this weird heading behavior?"
> 
> Thanks,
> Jake.
> 
The one thing you don't talk about is your fermentation and bottling
procedure, and this is probably where the problem lies.  Sounds to me
like your beer is simply overcarbonated from (a) too much priming sugar;
or (b) bottling too soon.  Trying racking the beer when the primary
fermentation is done and letting it clear somewhat in the secondary
before bottling.  When I was having trouble with overcarbonation, this
latter step helped tremendously and also resulted in a lot less sediment
in the bottle.

The problem might have something to do with the brewer's licorice you're
adding as well, but never having used it I don't know for sure.  Why do
you add this?  Quite frankly, I don't know _any_ brewers, amateur or
professional who use licorice.  You might try leaving it out entirely.

> From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
> Subject: BREWING, SPENT GRAIN
> 
>  
>  To: Homebrew Digest
>  Fm: Jack Schmidling
>  
>  >From: bgros at sensitivity.berkeley.edu (Bryan Gros)
>  >Subject: brewing definition
>  
>  >Why is making tea usually called "brewing"?  no fermentation involved.
>  
>  Fundamental to the brewing process is STEEPING and that is how tea is 
>  prepared and how mashing extracts sugar from malt.
>  
>  Fermentation is NOT integral to brewing, it is an optional additional step.
>  
> 
> without boiling & had no problems or dissapointments.  Has anyone done a side

Well, one of the marvelous things about the English language is the way
we can bend it.  It's pretty clear from the complete definition given in
Webster's that it all depends on which part you choose: "to prepare (as
beer or ale) by steeping, boiling and fermentation or by infusion and
fermentation."  It's clear that _here_ the common denominator is
_fermentation_, not steeping.  The fact that the same word is used to
describe the process of makin tea doesn't mean that "steeping" is the
root of brewing.  Let's not scramble around trying to find the
connection, for instance, between "posting" a letter, "posting" a new
lieutenant, and "posting" on a horse.  


- --Jeff Frane






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End of HOMEBREW Digest #863, 04/14/92