FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  first try at bottling with DME (Kenneth Haney)
  Spent grain (chip upsal)
  Belgian ale (SOCHA THOMAS M)
  Weizen yeast (Stephen Hall)
  MALTMILL Motor (Mike Harris)
  re: the Beer Game (mcnally)
  fermenters and seals (Chip Hitchcock)
  Romulan Ale (Dennis J. Templeton)
  spent grain (Jay Hersh)
  Can CO2 be Useful? (John DeCarlo)
  REQUEST INDEX (gnagelsm)
  Posting recipes (S94WELKE)
  Kegging Equipment Prices (Chris McDermott)
  Re: Evening Brewing, Morning Racking - When to pitch? (Dale Veeneman)
  Irish Red Ale (Eileen Anderson)
  Re: irish moss (korz)
  Evening brewers, morning rackers (Tom Nolan)
  Hops as food (Ed Westemeier)


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Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 07:45:07 MDT
From: haney at soul.ampex.com (Kenneth Haney)
Subject: first try at bottling with DME


Hi all,

    Well I got to try my first beer bottled with DME instead of sugar.
I think it does taste a little better. I would like to thank the three
people that sent or posted suggestions to me.

Jeff Gale
John DeCarlo
gkushmer

>From their suggestions I used 1 1/4 cups of DME. The only thing is, it
doesn't have the nice head my last batch did(same recipe). Of course
it's only been a week in the bottle.

Oh one more thing, out garage saleing this weekend I came up with a
Cornelius keg, 20# CO2 cylinder and a regulator....all for $8.50. That's
right $8.50 total.

Happy brewing
Ken
haney at ampex.com

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Date: 15 Apr 92 06:49:16 EDT
From: chip upsal <70731.3556 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Spent grain

Just to add to the spent grain discssion.  I have been to the big AB plant
in St. Louis.  They hall their grain to farmers by the train load.

I have given my spent grain to my fowl and they show little inerest in it.

According to Malting and Brewing Science the grain has little food value
for farm critters and should only be used for a suppliment.


Chip


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Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 08:31:01 -0400
From: tmsocha at vela.acs.oakland.edu (SOCHA THOMAS M)
Subject: Belgian ale

  I recently masde a batch of ale.  Using a the best of two recipes, one bock
and the other trappist ale.  Then adding yeast culture from a bottle of Chimay
 Can I enter this under AHA rules as a belgian ale?

Thank You,
tom

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Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 10:52:17 EDT
From: Stephen Hall <shall at polar.bowdoin.edu>
Subject: Weizen yeast

I am brewing a Weizenbier, using my own starter with the Wyeast as currently packaged.
Are there any Bavarian wheat-beers available in this country
that I could have used to make up a starter? Miller says that most of them
have the t-f yeast filtered out and replaced with a b-f variety at bottling.

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Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 11:08:35 -0400
From: harrism at dg-rtp.dg.com (Mike Harris)
Subject: MALTMILL Motor

|>  >Also by by stepping up to 1/2 hp, one could start the mill with grains in 
|>  the hopper. 
|>  
|>  I have been told that as little as 1/6 hp will do the trick.  I put the 1/2 
|>  hp motor from my belt sander on one and it scared the hell out of me.

	If the initial load is the problem, and 1/6 hp will sustain operation
	then a capacitor start motor may do the trick. They're designed
	for high torque start up. Perhaps a small one from a dead fridge
	or other suitable donor could be used.

	regards, 

Mike Harris - KM4UL                      harrism at dg-rtp.dg.com
Data General Corporation                 {world}!mcnc!rti!dg-rtp!harrism
Research Triangle Park, NC

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Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 08:28:34 -0700
From: mcnally at wsl.dec.com
Subject: re: the Beer Game


The Beer Game is all about the human tendency towards blindness to 
systemic factors, and not really at all about beer.  Check out Peter
Senge's excellent book, "The Fifth Discipline" (Doubleday/Currency, New
York, 1990) for a discussion of the Beer Game in context.

_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
Mike McNally                                           mcnally at wsl.dec.com
Digital Equipment Corporation
Western Software Lab

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Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 10:44:55 EDT
From: cjh at diaspar.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: fermenters and seals

   A number of people have sent in saying they had problems with sealing
plastic buckets. Is it possible they're not locking the lid all the way
down? The plastic buckets I've seen have a \very/ \strong/ locking rim
(this may be a legal requirement for so-called "food grade" buckets, but
some supply shops may be selling something else); prying it off carelessly
is a good way to lose a fingernail. I also wouldn't automatically endorse
the sealing properties of carboys. I have several 3-gallon carboys (I've
been doing tweaking on half batches) with the standard orange soft-plastic
caps and have found most cap/carboy combinations don't seal tightly enough
to force exhaust CO2 through the fermentation lock; I've used various
gimmicks, including props, string around the outside, and plastic washers
(made from the seals on 5-gallon water jugs) inside to make a tighter seal,
but haven't figured out whether I've run into a bad line of caps or the
neck of the 3-gallon carboy is just a hair smaller/shorter.

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Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 12:23:42 -0400
From: djt2 at po.CWRU.Edu (Dennis J. Templeton)
Subject: Romulan Ale


Micah asks about coloring for Romulan Ale.  What comes to mind is Blueberries.
Sometimes Blueberries turn red in food, and sometimes stay bluish purple 
(not as blue as in the movies)  I think it's a pH thing.  Try it and let us
know, it sounds fun.  BTW is Romulan ale hopped?

There is a commercial beer that is made with blueberries that I had in
Seattle.  It was quite good but not enough to make me remember the name. 
As I recall the color was not very dramatic, and my host told me that they
use *green* berries.  The flavor was nice, and not overpowering.

dennis

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Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 12:47:48 EDT
From: Jay Hersh <hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu>
Subject: spent grain




a lot of micros and brewpubs simply flush their spent grains. 
>From what I understand as long as the sewage system can handle
them (i.e. it is not ancient and dilapadated) many communities
are actually happy to have them in the sewage system (I have read
this in articles and been told this by some pub brewers) since
it provides a source of nutrient in the sewage treatment plants,
many of which are based on microbial decomposition, in which they
have to add a certain level of nutrient to insure proper health
of the microbes. The spent grains supplement this in some systems...

 -JaH

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Date: Wednesday, 15 Apr 1992 14:33:10 EDT
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Can CO2 be Useful?

Radical question #1:     Are air-locks really useful?

Is there any harm in having CO2 in solution, carbonating the fermenting
beer?  Why not keep all the CO2 in the fermenter, instead of wastefully
letting it out in the environment?

Disadvantages:  1)  You could exceed the pressure holding capability of
the fermenter, causing an explosion or other catastrophic failure.   2)
Increased pressure could affect the fermentation adversely.  3) No more
listening to "glub, glub".

Advantages:  The more CO2 in solution, the less likelihood of oxidizing
the liquid when racking (to secondary, bottling bucket, bottles).

So, does any of this make any sense?  As background, I use an S-shaped
air lock, that came with a little red cap.  When I started, I jammed the
cap on tight, thinking that was what it was for.  But no "glub, glub",
so I stopped doing that.  But maybe it would be useful after all?

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 92  15:48:41 EST
From: <gnagelsm%sedofis%sed.bitnet at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:      REQUEST INDEX


INDEX


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Date:     Wed, 15 Apr 92 15:57 EST
From: <S94WELKE%USUHSB.bitnet at VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:  Posting recipes

Steve Davis sez:
> Obviously, I'd rather not
> post all of these to the list...

One of my favorite things about the digest is the recipes.  By all means,
post them!  Break the recipes into groups of three or four if you aren't
comfortable posting them all at once.  LBNL, add them to the archives
and/or cat's meow.

- --Scott Welker

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Date: 15 Apr 1992 16:32:34 -0500
From: Chris McDermott <mcdermott at draper.com>
Subject: Kegging Equipment Prices

 Kegging Equipment Prices
Just got a new Superior Products sale catalog today.  Here are the prices of a
few keeging equipment items that may be relative to the recent discussion on
the same topic.

Twing Gauge Regulator                    $34.00
Single Gauge Regulator                   $28.00
Single Valve Tap                         $21.90
Hoff-Stevens 2-Probe Tap                 $13.90
2.5lb cap. Aluminum C02 Cylinder         $43.00
5lb   cap. Aluminum C02 Cylinder         $49.00
10lb  cap. Aluminum C02 Cylinder         $64.00
20lb  cap. Aluminum C02 Cylinder         $90.00


Superior Products is a natiomal wholeseller of resturant/bar equipment who will
sell directly to the public and accepts credit cards for payment.  They can be
reached at 1-800-328-9800.  Standard discaimers apply (i.e. I don't have
anything to do with them and don't give a rat's ass whether you do business
with them or not.)

On an other note, thanks to all how gave me advice on where to go for beer in
and around Munich.  I'll write up a beer related summary of the trip and post
it soon.

 Chris McDermott, <mcdermott at draper.com>


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Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 16:37:06 EST
From: Dale Veeneman <dev1 at gte.com>
Subject: Re: Evening Brewing, Morning Racking - When to pitch?

I received three mailed responses (thanks guys) to the above
question.  One said pitch after cooling (evening), one
said after racking (morning), and one quoted both Miller (pitch
in the evening - the trub's oxygen is good for the yeast), and
Fix (pitch in the morning after racking off the trub - yes the
yeast will use the trub's oxygen, but you won't like what's left
over).  So the score is 1.5 to 1.5.

I'm off for a week and a half, so I won't be able to follow this
until after I'm back, but I've seen arguments both ways and I'm 
wondering if a consensus is possible (assuming infection is not
an issue - which, of course, it can be).

Dale

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Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 92  16:41:33 EST
From: Eileen Anderson <EANDERS2%ALB9370%SED.bitnet at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:      Irish Red Ale


I have two questions: Is there such a thing as an Irish Red Ale beer style?
Secondly, if there is can anyone give me a good recipe for one? I had an
excellent one at the Vermont Pub and Brewery, but I'm beginning to lose faith.
Whenever I ask the owners of the local Homebrew stores they just give me a
blank look and talk about how to achieve the color. I know that there has to
be more to it than that, but then again if it doesn't really exist per se....I
did peek into Michael Jackson's beer guide and saw Irish Red Ale on his family
tree of beers so I'm not quite willing to give up yet. Am I missing something
I should knowabout? If you do have a recipe for me, please keep in mind that
I'm still brewing with extracts. Thanks for any help you can give me.

Eileen Anderson <EANDERS2%ALB9370 at SED.BITNET>


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Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 16:00 CDT
From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
Subject: Re: irish moss

Wanpus asks about irish moss and clarity.

I'd like to point out that if your beer is cloudy, it does not
necessarily mean protein-tannin (chill) haze or yeast haze.
Finings will take out either the protein or the tannin (depending
on the type of finings) and chilling for a week will usually help
drop out the yeast.  If you're using finings and chilling your
beer in advance of drinking it (or waiting for gravity to drop
the yeast out) and still are drinking cloudy beer, then either you've
added a ton of protein (e.g. wheat malt has a lot, so does unmalted
barley) or you've got an infection.  That's right, certain wild yeasts
will never come out of suspension and a bacterial infection can also
make your beer cloudy.  Check your sanitation.

Al.

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Date:    Wed, 15 Apr 1992 18:15:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: NOLAN at LHEAVX.GSFC.NASA.GOV (Tom Nolan)
Subject: Evening brewers, morning rackers

In response to Dale Veeneman's post, I've been doing this
(letting the cold break stuff settle out, then racking
to primary) for the last couple of batches. I have a strong
feeling, backed up by two no-ferments, that if you pitch
the yeast before settling and racking, you may be throwing
away much of the yeast when you rack. It's tempting to
want to get that yeast in as soon as possible, but for
the best pitching rate I think you want to pitch after you
rack to the primary. The risk of infection in the meantime
can be reduced if you can chill the wort way down before
the settling period. 

Tom

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Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 19:36:08 EDT
From: homebrew at tso.uc.EDU (Ed Westemeier)
Subject: Hops as food

The hops I planted last Spring did OK for their first year, but now they
are sending up lots of new shoots, and I can see that the second year 
will be a fantastic increase in yield over the first.
 
I went out this evening and culled all but the three strongest shoots 
from each rhizome, tool the culls (all between one and four inches 
long) in the house and sauteed them gently in a little butter, just 
barely long enough so they were completely wilted and beginning to 
soften (I like my pasta al dente, too).
 
Took them out of the pan, blotted the excess butter with a paper 
towel, put them on a plate and dug in.  WOW!!! All the stories are 
true!  Absolutely DELICIOUS!  I would describe the flavor as slightly 
sweet, slightly salty, definitely nutty.  Slightly reminiscent of 
asparagus, but far superior.
 
I didn't notice any difference between the blanched ones that had 
been covered with mulch, and the deep green ones that have been 
in full sun, so I'm a bit skeptical of the value of "mounding" them.
 
In short, if you have any room to grow hops around your house, 
this Springtime treat alone could make it worth your while.  Well, 
no, actually it's probably a much bigger thrill (at least for this 
brewer) just to be able to say you used your own hops in a 
particular batch.  My experience last year indicated that the 
fines that got the most sunlight produced the best yields, but 
that could also be coincidence -- we'll see this year.

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #865, 04/16/92