FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Grolsch bottles are gone, here come de keg. ("DRCV06::GRAHAM")
  Re: Homebrew Digest #869 (April 22, 1992) ("Karl F. Lutzen" )
  Competition Question  (Carl West)
  Clarification on Jack's NA Beer (Scott Bickham)
  Stainless Steel (Jim Larsen)
  Warning about BAA (radavfs)
  mash control  (Eric Mintz)
  Fermenting Steam beer (Bryan Gros)
  re: Wyeast 1028 kreausen question (Jon Binkley)
  Re: Sierra Nevada Ale yeast (Jerome Rainey)
  Clear bottles (pmiller)
  Request:  Scotch Ale Recipes (Thomas Manteufel 5-4257)
  Low mash pH (Darren Evans-Young)
  Spent grain & Romulan Ale from Micah Millspaw (Bob Jones)
  HBUs and IBUs??? (Bryan Gros)
  None ("Brett Lindenbach")


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Date: 22 Apr 92 08:51:00 EDT
From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <graham%drcv06.decnet at drcvax.af.mil>
Subject: Grolsch bottles are gone, here come de keg.

Thanks to all who showed interest in the Grolsch bottles.  I cannot respond 
to all personally, so thank you, and I'm sorry I didn't have enough to go 
around.

Kegging, here I come.  Since I'm attempting this 'blind' so to speak, I'll 
keep y'all posted as to how to keg without being aboe to see.

Dan ... Beer made with the Derry air.


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Date:     22 Apr 92 07:59:41 CST
From: "Karl F. Lutzen" <SUPERVISOR at novell.physics.umr.edu>
Subject:  Re: Homebrew Digest #869 (April 22, 1992)

I must hang my head in shame and ask all owners of The Cat's Meow 2 to turn
to the Dos Equis recipe, take their pen in hand and change the amount of
Munich Malt from 1/3 pound to 4 pounds 5 ounces.  It is a very terrible
error, and I apologize for allowing it to get through.  Please don't hold
this against Mark Stevens as it was my fault.  Please don't flog me...

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Karl Lutzen                    |   lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu
University of Missouri - Rolla |
Physics Department             |          (314) 341-6317
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Wed, 22 Apr 92 11:03:49 EDT
From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West)
Subject: Competition Question 

OK, lets pretend that I've entered a homebrewing competition and sent
my three bottles to the appropriate place. 

What happens to them?

Who opens them?

When and where do they get opened?

etc.

Carl

Hey, don't bury me! I'm trying to learn something!


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Date: Wed, 22 Apr 92 11:50:50 EDT
From: bickham at msc2.msc.cornell.edu (Scott Bickham)
Subject: Clarification on Jack's NA Beer

>From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
>Subject: Itsa Conspiracy

> There were four different samples, produced in different ways and none of 
> them were intended to represent anything other than samples for chemical 
> analysis.   There was only one that I would even consider drinkable.  One was> 
> boiled to reduce the volume by 50% another was a blend of 4 different beers, 
> one was in a plastic bottle and none were aged or cleared prior to sending.
> 
> In the future, I will have a hard time taking criticism of my articles 
> seriously.  
> 
> Now that you have all had your fun, is it asking to much to answer the only 
> question the samples were sent to address.
> 
> What is the alcohol content?

Jack,
	This was not made clear to the other participants in the seminar or me,
so maybe Jean misunderstood the nature of the samples.  I got the impression
from your HBD digest postings that you wanted an evaluation of your beers, as
well as an estimate of how effective your distillation process is.  In either
aspect, lack of sanitation (albeit intentional) will destroy any accurate
measurement.  For example, depending on the amount of oxygen available, lactic
acid bacteria will either metabolize ethanol or fermentable carbohydrates.
Acetic acid bacteria, which is common in beer dispense lines, uses ethanol
as its source of carbon.  Thus the apparent alcohol content may or may not be 
representative of the original, sterile beer.
	Jean has not been intentionally procrastinating on the HPLC measurement
of the alcohol content; she is up for tenure at Cornell next month, so I'm
sure she will get back to this matter after that hellish procedure is finished.
And by the way, judging a beer that scored in the low 20's is not my idea of
fun.  But thanks for pointing out that the taste and alcohol content was not
representative of your homebrews.

Cheers,
	Scott

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Date: Wed, 22 Apr 92 6:47:10 PDT
From: jal at techbook.com (Jim Larsen)
Subject: Stainless Steel



Greetings:

I am in recent receipt of a Cornelius kegging system and I have a 
few questions regarding its care and feeding.

1. How does one ferment in steel? I know of brewers who split the 
primary into two five-gallon vessels, relieving the pressure at 
regular intervals, and counter-pressure transfer to a single 
secondary. Others remove the fittings and tubes and replace them 
with blowoff tubes for primary and counter-pressure transfer to 
primary as well.

2. What are the preferred cleaners/sanitizers for stainless? I 
know of those who swear by between TSP or Iodophor, and one who 
even uses bleach with minimum exposure.

3. My current Cornelius inventory consists of one five-gallon and 
one three-gallon. In addition, I have a Firestone I acquired from 
a generous Coca-Cola driver. I there a simple means to incorporate 
this into my system, or should I seek to replace it with another 
Cornelius?

Thanks,

jal




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Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1992 13:22:53 EDT
From: radavfs at ube.ub.umd.edu
Subject: Warning about BAA

Well, brewers, I was one of those remarkably excited about BAA when
I heard about it, but when I called I was sorely disappointed - not
about the company, which sounds magnificent, but about the factthat
that they only ship to IL and surrounding states (WI,MN,IA,IN,KY
or wherever, but definiftely not to MD!).  So I am a bit surprised
that they would tell others that they air freight it...or have they
expanded?  Any explanation would be appreciated.  Send personal email
or to the list, and if you do, could you include the 1-800 #?  Any
input is vastly appreciated!  Volker Stewart  U. of Baltimore Library
radavfs at ube.ub.umd.edu
PS Recently made an attempt at an Altbier that had a strong raspberry/
grapefruit flavor.  I remember a discussion of this effect, but have
forgotten what its cause was.  Forgive my inexperience (I used extract,BTW!)
:=) ;=)...Prost!

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Date: Wed, 22 Apr 92 11:42:39 MDT
From: Eric Mintz <ericm at bach.ftcollinsco.NCR.COM>
Subject: mash control 

Mashers (and I mean that in the nicest way :-),

I am in the process of developing metrics to improve my brewing process
in general and my mashing in particular.  Does anyone have a way to
measure the amount of fermentable versus non-fermentable sugars in the
sweet wort?

- --Eric

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Date: Wed, 22 Apr 92 10:42:30 PDT
From: bgros at sensitivity.berkeley.edu (Bryan Gros)
Subject: Fermenting Steam beer

I'm fermenting a steam beer right now.  For various reasons,
my primary fermenter is an open plastic bucket.  The beer is
bubbling away, and in a couple of days I will rack off the 
trub into my glass carboy.  (This is the first time I'm using
a secondary fermenter.  Too bad I don't have the fridge space
to lager).  

My question is, since the Wyest cal. lager yeast is bottom
fermenting, and I rack into the carboy leaving the stuff on
the bottom behind, will I leave all my yeast behind?  Or will
I get enough to finish the fermentation?  Thanks.

                                    - Bryan

BTW, should I be skimming the foam out of the bucket?  Or was
this the topic with no consensus?

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Date: Wed, 22 Apr 92 13:05:54 -0600
From: Jon Binkley <binkley at beagle.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: re: Wyeast 1028 kreausen question


Eric Mintz says:

>I've just used Wyeast for the second time.  The first time, I brewed a
>stout with 1007.  It had a wonderfully high kreausen (>3" !).  This
>time, I'm brewing a Pale Ale with 1028.  It's producing CO2 like a
>banshee but the kreausen is less than 1" high.  Is this characteristic
>of the yeast or my wort (or is it common for the kreausen height to
>vary)?

I'd say that 1007 is unusually vigorous, not that the others are
lethargic.

When my brew partner and I first acquired some 7 gallon carboys
we stopped using a blow-off hose.  For most of the yeast strains
we used- 1028, 1056, 1098- this was no problem.  Then we tried
1007 for the first time.  Yeast sludge all over the basement.
Beer tasted great, though.

Jon Binkley



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Date: Wed, 22 Apr 92 12:14:43 -0700
From: jpr at gene.com (Jerome Rainey)
Subject: Re: Sierra Nevada Ale yeast


Ken Giles writes (about SNPA yeast):

> [A SN brewery worker] said that [the bottling yeast] was a different [from the
> brewing yeast], more flocculant strain which stuck well to the bottom of the
> bottle.

Keith Winter writes:

> The only information I have to the contrary is the information I got when I
> took the toor of SN.  The guide, when I asked this very same question,
> defferred
> to one of the other workers (who seemed to be intimately involved in the
> brewing
> process but I didn't get a chance to iquire further) who said that they used
> only
> one yeast type (except for the Bigfoot Barley Wine) for primary, secondary
> and bottle conditioning.

Hmm, I hope we can resolve this issue: I used yeast cultured
from a bottle of SNPA for my latest pale ale, which is still
in secondary.  The thing I noticed about the yeast was that
there was very little sediment on the bottom when I racked to
secondary, and that the cap of foam on top (it never
collapsed) was _very_ thick and sticky, like peanut butter
in consistency.  That would make sense if I used a specially
sticky bottling strain to ferment with.  Still, the hydrometer
sample tasted fine.

Let's hear it for Sierra Nevada Pale Ale!  Hop hop hooray!

Jerome Rainey (jpr at gene.com)

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Date: Wed, 22 Apr 92 14:19:13 CDT
From: pmiller at mmm.com
Subject: Clear bottles

I agree with Geoff Sherwood.  My beer looks a lot better in clear
Newcastle Brown Ale bottles than any brown long neck bottles.  I
also store my bottles in long neck cardboard cases and have never
had a problem with light-struck beer.  (Of course, the original
Newcastle Brown Ale that had been sitting for who knows how long
under the fluorescent lights in the liquor store is another story :)

Phil Miller

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Date: Wed, 22 Apr 92 14:34:46 CDT
From: tomm at pet.med.ge.com (Thomas Manteufel 5-4257)
Subject: Request:  Scotch Ale Recipes

Does anyone out there have any recipes for Scotch Ale they care to share?
I think I have a handle on the malts, but have no idea what hops to use.
Is there a Scotch Ale yeast, or would English Ale do?

Thank You,


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Date:         Wed, 22 Apr 92 14:58:32 CDT
From: Darren Evans-Young <DARREN at ua1vm.ua.edu>
Subject:      Low mash pH

I've recently gone all-grain and have a sort of problem.
All my water is preboiled and cooled to remove chlorine.
Tuscaloosa, AL water is moderately soft.

I heat my mash water to the correct strike temperature, dump
in my grains and stir well for 5 minutes. Then I remove a
sample of the liquid and test the pH. According to my
battery operated pH meter (properly calibrated), my pH is
4.8. I have verified this with pH papers too.  I've added
as much as 2 tsp of CaCO3 to bring the pH up to the recommended
5.2-5.4 range, but it doesnt budge.  I do make sure to stir
in the CaCO3 well before taking another reading. My question,
what is the effect on the mash with a pH that low? Benificial or not?
Should I continue to add more CaCO3?  Should I not worry and
be happy with a 4.8 pH?

Darren

Darren Evans-Young                                  darren at ua1vm.ua.edu
Seebeck Computer Center                             70651.2605 at CompuServe.COM
The University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa               (205)348-3988

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Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1992 13:17 PDT
From: Bob Jones <BJONES at NOVA.llnl.gov>
Subject: Spent grain & Romulan Ale from Micah Millspaw

	What to do with spent grains? I brew 15 gallon batches and
often end up with 30-40 pounds of spent grain, not to mention used
hops covered with clumps of protein from the boil(yuk). I used to trade
the grain for eggs with a friend who had chickens. Unfortunately the
birds stopped laying (to old) and I can get free eggs anyway. So, one
of the guys I ride to work with raises llamhas(sp?) and they seem to
eat everything, I don't get any thing out of this but it is conveinent
and my kids like to watch the llamhas eat. And the llamhas really like 
the used hops!
                                                Micah Millspaw  4/16/92





The Romulan ale has been brewed! I call it S'harien, it is an all
grain wheatwine, 50% wheat, OG 1104  with 65 IBU's. On the colour end
of it, I'm going with food colouring but am adding it to the bottles
just before I counter-pressure fill them. No draft Romulan ale for me.
This stuff should be ready by conference time, I intend to bring some.
Thanks for the many suggestions HBDers.
                                                 Micah Millspaw 4/21/92

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Date: Wed, 22 Apr 92 14:20:04 PDT
From: bgros at sensitivity.berkeley.edu (Bryan Gros)
Subject: HBUs and IBUs???

I  was designing my recipe for my steam beer (see post above) and
bought some Northern Brewer hops.  The store said 8.5% AA.  I
noticed most recipes for an Anchor-type beer said 13 or 14 HBUs.
This means about 1.5oz in my 5-gallon batch.

I checked Eckhardt and he said steam beer:  35-40 IBUs.  I decided
to take the plunge and figure out IBUs.  If I use the formula in
Papazian or the Zymurgy issue, I get something like 1/2 oz for 60min.
(Don't have the formula with me).  So how can these two different
measurements be off by so much?  Is this why all my beers so far
have been pretty darn hoppy?
Should I just switch to IBU calculations and go by experience? 
 I ended up comprimising and using 3/4 oz for 60min, 1/4 oz for
30 min, and 1/3oz for flavoring.  I have no idea what it will taste
like.  (I'm considering dry-hopping slightly, but I'm not sure
how much I would add.)
      
Any advice would be helpful. 
                                  - Bryan

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Date: 22 Apr 1992 21:07:06 -0600
From: "Brett Lindenbach" <Brett_Lindenbach at qms1.life.uiuc.edu>
Subject: None

                       Subject:                               Time:8:39
PM
  OFFICE MEMO          None                                  
Date:4/22/92
sorry about the format of my last post. anyways, about the carboy
kegging. i use 19 liter carboys from my lab. they are made of thick
pyrex (great for autoclaving), with a wide (57 mm) mouth and large lip.
i have only seen them in scientific catalogs (thomas scientific, p.135,
1-800-345-2100), and they are a little pricey ($113.26). my suggestion
is that anyone who has access to some of these suckers, *use them*, but
they may be a little out of the price range of most homebrewers.
anyways, they take a size 12 stopper. so i drilled two holes in a
stopper, of appropriate diameter for two glass tubes, one short one for
pressure, one for drawing off the bottom. the connections (CO2, tap)
were made with sterilizable nalgene tubing held tight with clamps, and
sealed with dow/corning high vacuum grease. now, the most important
piece: the stopper clamp. this consists of a *large* washer-like piece
of steel of about 57 mm o.d., 50 mm i.d., which fits over the stopper,
and has four equidistant holes drilled in it, each about 3 mm. picture
that? ok, these holes are for bolts to go through, which are being held
in place under the lip by a pair of hemicircular steel bands, which are
in turn screwed together around the neck, tight enough so that the lip
cannot pass through. thus, with a few twists with a wing nut, the
stopper is absolutely clamped into place. this device was designed for
the fermentation of a strictly anaerobic methanogenic bacteria, but it
serves my purpose well. anyways, i have used a commercial CO2 regulator
and tap mounted in a friend's fridge (keg-o-lator style). i prime in
this device, and keep it under 5 psi while it is carbonating. in 2
weeks, it is ready to pull. best of all, it didn't cost any more than
bottling. good luck to any i have inspired. i will comment on yeast
culturing soon. -brett lindenbach



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End of HOMEBREW Digest #870, 04/23/92