FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Re: Homebrew Digest #875 (May 04, 1992) (Ege Serim)
  RE Mitch Gelly's post (S94WELKE)
  Recycling Yeast (Brian Smithey)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #875 (May 04, 1992) (ZAPPULLA)
  Uncompressibility/Mead (Dances with Workstations)
  Yeast Und Gas (Jeff Frane)
  draft systems
  Cat's meow 2 ("David E. Husk")
  Reusing yeast  (MEHTA01)
  thanks to all who helped. (MEHTA01)
  Brewing Yeast Rumours (Darren Evans-Young)
  NA Beer - the Schmidling Method ("Jean B. Hunter")


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Date:         Mon, 04 May 92 15:51:41 GMT
From: Ege Serim <S901322%EMUNIVM1.BITNET at pucc.Princeton.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Homebrew Digest #875 (May 04, 1992)

 Dear Brewers;
I subscribed to this list quite recently when I saw it on the listservs
list... I have always wondered about fermentation and making home-brews...
Im am currently studying in the wonderfull island of Cyprus (actually doing
my BSc on Electronic Eng.) A corner of earth touched by heaven... Anyway let
me come back to the point I tried a little experiment a week ago. Mixing
5 litres of grape juice into 3 table spoons full yeast boiled in 2 cups of
water and about two full cups of sugar... And put the whole mixture in a
plastic sealed container with a airlock lid| I know the whole thing soudns
silly and I already knew about wine turning into vinegar when in contact
with air but to smell it I lifted up the airlock lid as i did so because
of the preasure inside the whole thing blew up in my face....
NOW since my knowledge on fermentation is no more than I learnt in biology
in high school please someone guide me on how to make my first dry wine?
I know that I need a proper airlock| and maybe some other stuff too...
SO PLEASEEEE HELLPPP

             Ege Serim.... <S901322 at EMUNIVM1> Keen beer/wine enthusiast|

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Date:     Mon, 4 May 92 09:41 EST
From: <S94WELKE%USUHSB.bitnet at VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:  RE Mitch Gelly's post

Hear hear.
- --Scott Welker

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Date: Mon, 4 May 92 09:59:23 MDT
From: smithey at rmtc.Central.Sun.COM (Brian Smithey)
Subject: Recycling Yeast

>>>>> In HBD #875, mccamljv at ldpfi.dnet.dupont.com writes:

Joel> 	I am looking for a less maintenance intensive yeast 'culturing'
Joel> 	method.

	[ ... ]

Joel> 	I have seen numerous mention of people re-using the yeast slurry
Joel> 	from the primary or secondary. Would anyone care to post a
Joel> 	procedure/process/primer on how to get 2-3 batches from one
Joel> 	packet of yeast (liquid or otherwise).


Joel,

Try saving the slurry from primary in sanitized jars in your
refrigerator.  I haven't done this myself, as I rarely use the
same yeast for two consecutive batches of beer, but I was reading
through the Zymurgy yeast special last night (again), and this
method was mentioned as a good first step towards home yeast
maintenance.  Try to use the yeast as soon as possible, I
think the article said a week was ok.  There was also some
information on pitching volume that you might find useful,
you want to get 40 billion cells pitched into 5 gallons of
wort, and 1 cup of slurry from primary should do it.  So should
10 puffed up Wyeast packages :-)

Speaking of yeast, a follow-up on my Red Tail Ale yeast query
of a week ago:  I went ahead and pitched the dregs from two
bottles of unknown age into an 8 oz starter and attached an
air-lock.  I finally saw some activity about 4 or 5 days later,
which wasn't a quick enough start for me to be confident about
brewing with it.  Anyway, the yeast is viable; I'd suspect that
it's very similar to Sierra Nevada's yeast, as it sticks very
well to the bottom of the bottle (as does SN), and the Mendicino
Brewing Co. in Hopland, CA (brewers of Red Tail Ale) is fairly
close to Chico.  By the way, they also make a seasonal (Winter)
ale called Eye of the Hawk, a strong ale whose yeast sediment
looks very Chimay like; those of you who can find this beer
may have better luck reusing this yeast rather than Chimay, as
it will probably be fresher (in the Winter, anyway) and will
probably have seen less rough handling than a beer that has
been imported from Belgium.


Joel>  -Joel McCamley	"Constantly Relaxing, Not Worrying and
Joel> 			Having a Homebrew!"


Brian
- --
Brian Smithey / Sun Microsystems / Colorado Springs, CO
smithey at rmtc.Central.Sun.COM

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Date: Mon, 4 May 1992 13:18 EST
From: ZAPPULLA%MIDD.BITNET at mitvma.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #875 (May 04, 1992)


        Please remove me from this list ASAP...I do not want this mail and
I never asked for it.

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Date: Mon, 4 May 92 13:41:30 EDT
From: Dances with Workstations <buchman at marva2.ENET.dec.com>
Subject: Uncompressibility/Mead

> Here's an example of one other thing not to worry about.
> Water (and presumably beer) is essentially an incompressible
> fluid. That means that if you push on the top of it harder
> basically nothing happens.

(this has nothing to do with beer, but...)
my brother got a very good illustration of this incompressibility when a
friend of his went four-wheeling in a stream with his Ford Bronco. Water
shot up the air intake and into the cylinders. When the pistons came down
on the cylinders for the next cycle, they encountered water, which does
not compress, instead of air, which does. The resulting force on the pistons
bent the cam shafts into fairly severe angles (and cam shafts are very
thick, strong pieces of metal) and the engine had to be rebuilt.

Come to think of it, this does have to do with beer, since they probably
had a few before going out on this ride. BUT it wasn't homebrew... that
must have been their error :)

On a beer-related topic:  our last mead fermented down to .997, and was
so dry that it tasted like champagne. We're not complaining, (it was/is
fabulous) but what is the approved way of achieving a sweeter mead?
Two alternatives I've heard are:
	- use a less attenuative yeast than Champagne.
	- spike the batch with grain alcohol to inhibit the yeast at the
level of sweetness desired. This prevents you from then carbonating the
mead, though.
			Thanks,
				Jim Buchman

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Date: Mon, 4 May 92 10:05:28 PDT
From: gummitch at techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Yeast Und Gas

> 
> Date: Fri, 1 May 92 09:46:14 -0400
> From: mccamljv at ldpfi.dnet.dupont.com
> Subject: Recycling Yeast
to:  Joel McCamley	

Re-using yeast slurry is quite simple, especially if you are going to
use it immediately.  If you're going to store it for a few weeks, you
need to wash it. (see below)  To recover the yeast, simply leave a small
amount of beer in the secondary when you bottle or keg -- just enough
liquid to dissolve the yeast pack.  Flame the neck of the carboy and
then pour the slurry into a sterile jar (I like peanut butter jars
because they have a wide mouth)and refrigerate.  Because you're not
plating out the yeast to check for purity, the general rule is that you
should only re-pitch once (but then, you have a LOT of slurry in that
jar and don't need to use it all when you pitch the next batch).  Dave
has recommended to me that if something needs to be stored for more than
a couple of weeks, it be re-started with some fresh wort before
pitching, just to get everything lively.

Yeast Washing for the Homebrewer

The following notes were taken from a demonstration given
to the Oregon Brew Crew by Dave Logsdon of WYeast Labs, 
on September 12th. According to Dave, it was important 
for healthy yeast to be washed free of trub and hop 
residue so that it could be stored for future use. 
Dave said that the problem with simply storing the 
mixed contents from a carboy after fermentation was 
that the unwanted particulates would suffocate the 
yeast over a period of time. Most breweries, Dave 
stressed, use an acid wash; the sterile water wash 
is much more practical for homebrewers.
	
	Objective: To recover yeast from a finished batch 
	of beer for repitching or storage for future brewing.
	
	Materials: One primary fermenter after beer has 
	been siphoned off or otherwise removed.
	
	Three sanitized 1-quart Mason jars with lids, 
	half full of sterile or boiled water. They 
	should be cooled down, then chilled to refrigerator 
	temperature (ca. 38^F).
	
	Procedures:
	
	
        1) Sanitize the opening of the carboy (flame or 
	wipe with chlorine or alcohol)

	2) Pour the water from one of the quart jars 
	into the carboy. Swirl the water to agitate the 
	yeast, hop residue and trub from the bottom.

	3) Pour contents from the carboy back into the 
	empty jar and replace the cover.

	4) Agitate the jar to allow separation of the 
	components. Continue to agitate periodically 
	until obvious separation is noticeable.


	5) While the viable yeast remains in suspension, 
	pour off this portion into the second jar. Be 
	careful to leave as much of the hops and trub 
	behind as possible.

	6) Agitate the second container to again get as 
	much separation of yeast from particulate matter 
	as possible. Allow contents to rest (about 1/2 
	hour to 1 hour) then pour off any excess water--
	and floating hop particles--from the surface.

	7) Pour off yeast fraction which suspends above 
	the particulate into the third container.* 
	Store this container up to 1 month refrigerated. 
	Pour off liquid and add wort 2 days before brewing 
	or repitch into a new brew straight away.



*It should be noted that in the actual demonstration, 
Dave eliminated the final step; the yeast in the 
second jar was essentially clean at this stage and 
seemingly fine for storage.



To: Nick Zentena 
Subject: draft systems
>         Hi,
>                 I just invested in a draft system. Does
>                 anybody have any helpfull hints for the new
>                 kegger?
>                 Thanks
>                 Nick


I find I get the best results by letting the beer clear very thoroughly
in the carboy before I keg.  Then I sterilize everything thoroughly and
had priming sugar to the keg, and rack on top of it.  (Usually I also
throw in a bag full of hops, but that's just because I love hops!)  Then
I tighten down the valves thoroughly, put on the top and hook up the
gas.  I pump CO2 on top of the beer, then bleed it out, pump it in,
bleed it out, etc. until I'm pretty sure I've flushed out any O2; then
bleed off the CO2 so the beer can carbonate by itself.  >>>Make sure the
beer is finished before it goes into the keg or be prepared to bleed the
CO2 daily.  As someone else has pointed out, an excess of CO2 will
severely inhibit the fermentation and may interfere with flocculation.

Some people like to cut off the bottom 3/4" or so of the flow tube so
that the first draw leaves behind any yeast.  I prefer to suck the yeast
out completely so it won't get stirred up if the keg gets bumped.  One
of the reasons I let it clear in the carboy is so that little yeast is
left: the beers clears more quickly and there's less in the bottom of
the keg.

I tried using finings once but have found it to be completely
unnecessary, particularly with a good flocculator like 1056/Sierra N.  I
can usually start drinking the beer within a week after it's kegged,
although the conditioning and the flavor (especially with dry-hopping)
improve if I hold off another week or two.

With proper conditioning you shouldn't have to add any CO2, even during
the use of the keg.  If you do, just pump in about 10 psi and then turn
off the gas.  If you leave it on you can easily over-carbonate the beer.
On the other hand, of course, if you _do_ over-carbonate, you can also
bleed gas off with the release valve.

If you're going to dry-hop, don't use naked hop pellets.  This is the
voice of experience, believe me.  They will glue themselves back
together and plug up your Out valve.  No beer will get into your glass.
This is BAD.  And when you bleed of the gas and open it up, and take off
the valve, beer will shoot straight up and hit your basement ceiling.
This is also BAD.  Trust me.

- --Jeff





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Date:     Mon May  4 17:03:30 1992
From: "David E. Husk" <deh7g at newton.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Subject:  Cat's meow 2


	I've been busy lately and missed the info on the new Cat's meow 2
book.  Could someone mail me a copy or tell me where to ftp a copy
in PageMaker format?

Thanks

    >>>>>>>    Freedom times security is a constant.   <<<<<<<


Husk at virginia.edu                       David Husk
Physics Bldg/UVA                        804 924 6799
McCormick Rd
Charlottesvile, Va 22901




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Date:    Mon, 4 May 1992 19:34:45 -0500 (CDT)
From: MEHTA01 at SWMED.UTEXAS.EDU
Subject: Reusing yeast 


	Here's what i do (from reading previous HBDs and asking around):

After bottling fermented homebrew (and taking ample samples to ensure the 
quality of the fermentation :-))  ), shake up the slurry from the almost
empty SECONDARY fermentor and bottle (fill 1/3 of bottle) in 3-4 bottles. Put 
in fridge until ready to use. i make sure the bottles are clean (dishwasher) 
and that's it!!
	i use Glosch-type bottles, and when i need yeast for my next batch, i
simply open bottle and pour half into starter (or even into wort) and it 
works (:^)) !!  

	Of course i have never really done a second passage reuse (i.e. resuse
the slurry from this second generatoin of yeast), but it should be ok!!

	The yeast have stayed in the fridge as long as 4-6 months before use, 
and they start up happily and ferment very smoothly.

Good luck.

Shreefal Mehta

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Date:    Mon, 4 May 1992 19:42:22 -0500 (CDT)
From: MEHTA01 at SWMED.UTEXAS.EDU
Subject: thanks to all who helped.


A few months ago, i posted some questions on procedure with problems of
persistent cloudiness in beer. Well, thanks to some very patient and kind 
replies and suggestions, i have now got two all-extract batches that are my
best ever!! and CLEAR!! 
	Errors i corrected: i thought conversoin wasn't occurring as i was
iodine-testing the husk residue. After letting the haze settle during mashing, 
i now test in the more clear supernantant and the magic works!!
	i was boiling for too short a time: i now boil for one hour (SBT std.
boiling time) and this probably helped a lot too. 
	

	Now just one more quickie: After boiling, as i am letting the wort cool
a little on the stove, how do most people get the wort off the hot break 
leafy coudlets precipitate? Is there some trick? Do you just wait a while? It
seems a shame, after boiling to get this sexy hot break, to just throw it all
(well, most of it) in to the primary while pouring... 
	i pour onto ice-cold water through a bed of ice; this cools it fast enough.

Thanks again for the wonderful support group ;-)  

Happy brewing
Shreefal

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Date:         Mon, 04 May 92 19:51:58 CDT
From: Darren Evans-Young <DARREN at ua1vm.ua.edu>
Subject:      Brewing Yeast Rumours

Can someone verify whether Red Star and Whitbread have stopped
producing their dry brewing yeast?  I know I've read this somewhere
but I cannot find it in my archives.  Thanks.

Darren

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Date:         Mon, 04 May 92 23:51:18 EDT
From: "Jean B. Hunter" <MS3Y at CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:      NA Beer - the Schmidling Method

Howdy fellow brewers -
    My first post on this having apparently been lost into the bit bucket
of the Internet, here goes again:
     HPLC results on alcohol content of Jack's beers are in!  The method
appears to remove 60 to 70% of the alcohol from the beer, based on
an estimate that an ordinary homebrewed ale will run 4% to 4.5% alcohol
by weight. Jack sent me samples from two batches of NA beer which I
analyzed against Labatt's 50 and Freeport NA Brew as controls.
     Labatt's 50:           3.51% alcohol by weight
     Jack's batch 1:        1.51%
     Jack's batch 2:        1.76%
     Freeport NA Brew       0.00%
The bottle that Jack sent me for tasting developed a small mold colony
at the meniscus during storage; so did the other glass bottle which was
not carbonated.  The Batch 2 sample in the plastic bottle did not develop
mold.  A lesson here is that low alcohol beers are probAbly more prone to
infection than full-alcohol beers.
    I apologize to Jack for the surprise posting of a review of the taste
of his NA beer that had become contaminated with mold.  At the end of a
workshop on beer faults and off-flavors, I served several homebrewed and
commercial beers with distinctive flavor profiles -= including Molson,
Yuengling Porter, Rodenbach, and Freeport NA Brew.  Jack's brew was served
as a comparison to the commercial NA brew, but unfortunately the subtle
"low ethanol" attribute was masked by the various intense herbal flavors
in the beer.
    Bottom line on batch flash distillation to remove ethanol:  Using Jack's
method of a slow heat to 170C and a slow cool to room temp, you can remove
over half the the alcohol in homebrew.  A valid review of the effects of
the "Schmidling method" on flavor is not possible at this point.  Any more
experimenters out there?
    Thanks, Jack, for sending your beer for analysis, and again, sorry for
the delays.
    Cheers and beers -- Jean

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #876, 05/05/92