FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Wanted: used regulator for kegging setup (J.David Ruggiero)
  Double mashing (Conn Copas)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #885 (May 20, 1992) (JJANSSEN)
  beechwood (matth)
  RE: Homebrew Digest #886 (May 21, 1992) (Dick Schoeller - ZKO2-2/M21 - DTN 381-2965  21-May-1992 0922)
  Bulk Hops (Dennis McNally)
  Subscription (Jeff Musser)
  Rogue Brewing (Bryan Gros)
  Re: Beechwood (Richard Akerboom)
  Spargeing, hop storage and yeast culturing (Bob Jones)
  Bush Keg (boubez)
  re boiling temps (Chip Hitchcock)
  Wort Transport (fjdobner)
  BBC vs. BBW (C.R. Saikley)
  Mega-Brewers in Illinois? (fjdobner)
  David Arnold's Visit to Germany ("Roger Deschner  ")
  Mazer Cup Mead Competition (Josh Grosse)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 May 92 23:35:18 PDT
From: osiris at polari.com (J.David Ruggiero)
Subject: Wanted: used regulator for kegging setup

I recently managed to acquire an old scuba tank, which I was lucky enough
to be able to trade to a local gas supplier for a 15lb C02 tank...now, all
I need to be in business is a regulator. I know this has been asked before,
but...anyone know good sources for a used single or dual C02 regulator?
Better, does anyone have one lying about they'd like to sell?

PS: Is the digest still being posted to r.c.b, or is it just my system
that's not getting it?

David  (reply to osiris%polari at uunet.uu.net)


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Date: Thu, 21 May 92 12:47:32 BST
From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas%lut.ac.uk at hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Double mashing

I recently saw a recipe that involved the following steps (a) mash the goods
(b) run-off (c) add more water and mash for a further period (d) run-off,
then sparge. The object was to extract both a high gravity wort and a small
beer from the same mash, in the familiar barley wine fashion. The brew
consisted of
large proportions of unmalted cereal in a loosely Belgian ale style. I am
wondering what the purpose of the second mash would be ? Presumably, this
would allow one to alter grist:liquor ratios and temperatures, and thus alter
the dextrin character of the second wort. On the other hand, one would think
that the character was largely fixed by the original mash, and that prolonging
the mash in an environment where many of the enzymes had been drained off would
have little effect ?  

- -- 
Loughborough University of Technology          tel : (0509)263171  ext 4164
Computer-Human Interaction Research Centre     fax : (0509)610815      
Leicestershire  LE11 3TU           e-mail - (Janet):C.V.Copas at uk.ac.lut   
G Britain                 (Internet):C.V.Copas%lut.ac.uk at nsfnet-relay.ac.uk


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Date: Thu, 21 May 1992 14:43 +0100
From: JJANSSEN at KUB.NL
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #885 (May 20, 1992)

Please somebody get me off this list. I am getting sick of all
the messages about homebrew digest. I do not even like beer!!!!
My address is JJANSSEN at HTIKUB5.bitnet. I am also not fond of the
one-sentence messages popping up on my screen everytime I try to
send mail messages.
Thanks a lot.

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Date: Thu, 21 May 92 08:54:52 -0400
From: matth at bedford.progress.COM
Subject: beechwood


 In HBD #886 florianb at chip.cna.tek.com writes:

>Yesterday, we get the message from jay marshall:
 
>?The A-B Asst. Brewmeister that came to our brewclub meeting told us
>>that the beechwood chips are used to provide more surface area for
>>the yeast.  He didn't mention anything about fining.  We are going on
 
>Surface area for the yeast? The yeast are in suspension! And I suppose
>that if you ferment in a closed container with cracked corn you will
>get mice by spontaneous generation!
 
>Was this guy an assistant brewmeister or an assistant public relations rep? 

  I almost replied yesterday, but just didn't get time.  Now I have time.

  Yes, the yeast are in suspension.  However, the beechwood aging is done in
the secondary when the intent is to get the yeast *out* of suspension.  I 
believe (not %100 certain) that the big advantage here is indeed the surface 
area of the beechwood that acts as a fining agent.  The yeasties collect more
on the beechwood than they would just settling to the bottom of the 
fermentation vessel.  It's similiar to the way (some) super-saturated solutions 
percipitate out if some foregn object is present in the solution.  Kinda' acts
like a yeast magnet, if you wish to think of it that way.

  by the way, if you ferment in a closed container with cracked corn you won't
get mice, you'll get a thin cheap tasting brew like Budweiser!-)

 -Matth

          Matthew J. Harper ! Progress Software Corp. ! {disclaimer.i}         
   God created heaven and earth to grow barley and hops. Now he homebrews !-)  


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Date: Thu, 21 May 92 06:27:00 PDT
From: Dick Schoeller - ZKO2-2/M21 - DTN 381-2965 21-May-1992 0922 <"gooey::schoeller" at 4gl.enet.dec.com>
Subject: RE: Homebrew Digest #886 (May 21, 1992)

David,

I can't say much about Regensburg and Germany is much too extensive to cover
in a short note.  However, I can make a recommendation of a book and I can
second one the recommendations in it.  Tell your friend to get _The Simon &
Schuster Pocket Guide to Beer_, by Michael Jackson and to carry it with him
everywhere.  In there, is a recommendation for a pub in Amsterdam, Het Laatste
Oordeel.  It is on Rathuisstraat near Herrengracht (I think I have the right
canal, I know I have the right street).

Dick
Ready to go back NOW!

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Date: Thu, 21 May 92 08:16:03 MDT
From: bones!dem at csn.org (Dennis McNally)
Subject: Bulk Hops

A few recent postings about "Mega" batches have been lamenting the problem
of getting bulk hops.   The most recent Freshops price list lists the
following varieties and prices:

             VARIETIES                                PRICES
           Cascade                                Lbs.      Cost/lb. 
           Centennial (CFJ 90)                    3/4        12.50
           Chinook                                1          12.00 
           Hallertauer                            2          11.00
           Northern Brewer                        3          10.50     
           Perle                                  4          10.00  
           Tettnanger                             5-10        9.50
           Willamette                             11+         9.00

All hops are alpha analyzed and prices include shipping except to Alaska,
Hawaii and Canada.

I have never purchased hop cones from these folks but have ordered rhizomes
and have been very satisfied.

The Address and Phone
        Freshops
        36180 Kings Valley Hwy.
        Philomath, OR  97370
        (503) 929-2736

Enjoy !

- -----------

Dennis McNally             Numerical Solutions 
dem at ns.com                 16225 W. 74th Dr.
                           Golden, CO 80403     (303) 421-2211
           

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Date: Thu, 21 May 92 11:10:39 EST
From: Jeff Musser <musserj at GVSU.EDU>
Subject: Subscription

          homebrew-request%hpfcmr at HPLABS.HP.COM


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Date: Thu, 21 May 92 08:16:17 PDT
From: bgros at sensitivity.berkeley.edu (Bryan Gros)
Subject: Rogue Brewing

Anyone got the phone number for Rogue?  Anyone know if they sell
the tap handles with the grains in them?  the one in Ashland?
I may be there saturday or sunday evening.

                                       - Thanks.

And any comments on Lost Coast in Eureka?

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Date: Thu, 21 May 92 09:12:44 EST
From: boomer at sylsoft.com (Richard Akerboom)
Subject: Re: Beechwood

Regarding the beechwood used by A-B, I heard the following related
by Jim Koch of Samuel Adams:

The beechwood 'chips' are apparently more like the size of cedar house
shingles. They are first washed to extract the sap or whatever, and are 
then added to the secondary fermenter. They settle to the bottom (note that 
once they are washed, they will sink when wet) and form a matrix. The yeast 
settle on this matrix-they are lager yeast and settle. The matrix
allows more beer to yeast contact than if the yeast just settled to
the bottom of some tank. Supposedly A-B's yeast(s) have mutated over
history and sink more rapidly than your average lager yeast, so the
beechwood chips are important to the secondary fermentation.

So, from what I've heard, the guy Jay Marshall talked to was on target,
and this A-B rep was not just blowing hot air. By the way, note that
I've said nothing about beechwood affecting the flavor.

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Akerboom       Domain: boomer at sylsoft.com or akerboom at dartmouth.edu
Sylvan Software          uucp: decvax!dartvax!sylsoft!boomer
Mechanic St.            Phone: 802-649-2231
P. O. Box 566             FAX: 802-649-2238
Norwich, VT 05055 USA 

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Date: Thu, 21 May 1992 08:42 PDT
From: Bob Jones <BJONES at NOVA.llnl.gov>
Subject: Spargeing, hop storage and yeast culturing

A few random comments :

Sparging - its desirable to minimize the hydostatic pressure across the grain
bed at all times. This can be achieved (if you are a gravity run off sparger)
by raising your outflow line from your vessel to a few inches below the water
level inside the vessel. Something like this :

                       |        |
                       |--------|
                       |        |   -- outflow
                       | liquid |   |
                       |        |----
                       |--------|

Hop storage - I have been using one of those vacuum sealing gadgets for hop
storage for several years now. I have had great success with it. I have used
hops that have been stored for a 1 1/2 years in the freezer that seem as fresh
as the day I packaged them. I just open bag, remove what I need and reseal the
bag (vacuum reseal) and store in freezer. I even use the sealer gadget for food
stuff too.

Yeast culturing - I think it is a good idea to reculture yeast for our own use.
However if we all did it and never bought from our suppliers occassionally they
yeast cultures would go away. I personally have got my brewing costs to the
point where beer is almost free. I have stopped culturing and buy all new yeast
about 2-3 times a year. I guess I feel I'm helping to keep this segment of the
supply business alive, while moderately increasing my brew costs.

See ya'll at the conference,

Bob Jones



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Date: Thu, 21 May 92 11:51:10 EDT
From: boubez at tastesgreat.RUTGERS.EDU
Subject: Bush Keg


This is a repost of my posting on r.c.b, along with some clarifications.

It looks like I've inherited a Busch keg from a roommate from a previous
party (don't blame me, I don't drink that stuff :-)). It's the kind you get
when you pay a deposit, with a tap dispenser and a hand pump (no CO2 tank).
I can't describe it better than that, but I think you know which one. I'm
looking at it in my basement and wondering, Can I use it? I don't
necessarily want to ferment my next batch in it, just use it to prime and
dispense the beer. Any responses would be greately appreciated. Thanks.

toufic

PS As a response to some people who have already sent me mail telling me to
return it, please understand that I don't know where my roommate got it
from, and that it's been sitting in the basement for over a year now.

            R 2 4      Toufic Boubez
            |_|_|      boubez at cesl.rutgers.edu
            | | |      Computational Engineering Systems Lab
            1 3 5      CAIP Center, Rutgers University, NJ

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Date: Thu, 21 May 92 11:27:54 EDT
From: cjh at diaspar.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: re boiling temps

   It's true that altitude lowers boiling temperature (variation in
barometric pressure makes only a trivial difference unless you're at the
eye of a hurricane). However, dissolved solids \\RAISE// the boiling
temperature---get a candy thermometer and notice the correspondence
between boiling temp. and sugar concentration, expressed somewhat
poetically as the approximate hardness of a drop of solution cooled to
room temperature. The increase in boiling temperature isn't a lot
(for non-concentrated worts I'd \guess/ it to be around 1 centigrade
degree---I don't remember the molal boiling-point elevation for water
exactly) but it should be measurable.
   It sounds like I should take issue with the use of "homebrewers" rather
than "sterilize/sanitize", because commercial breweries don't boil the wort
for 12-14 hours either.
   And as long as we're being precise, how common are these thermophiles in
wort? (i.e., does sterilize not mean "destruction of everything there"
rather than "destruction of everything that \could/ \be/ there"?). BTW,
how fast does TDT drop as the temperature is raised---what's the typical
temperature in an autoclave, how long does it run, and how effective is it
according to Bigelow?

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Date: Thu, 21 May 92 12:57 CDT
From: fjdobner at ihlpb.att.com
Subject: Wort Transport


All,

It appears from the response that I received on alternatives to carrying
hot liquid from my kitchen to the basement that a direct siphon line from
the kitchen through an opening in the floor to the place of fermentation is the
choice option. I do still have a few questions that I have some answers for 
but would like to hear your input before I go off buying reels of vinyl
hose.

1. Since the liquid is just about boiling hot when it gets siphoned, is it 
necessary to sanitize it (the hose)? I am sure to be thorough my own answer 
would be "YES" but if I can keep from having to sterilize one more thing that 
has a lower probability of infection it would be worth the thought beforehand.

2. To keep the hose from kinking at the top of the brewpot (due to such a
severe temperature of the wort) I plan on using a racking tube. Does anyone
know if these racking tubes (you know the ones of clear hard plastics with
bend at one end) will be affected negatively by the heat (like melting for
instance)?

3. Any practical recommendations as to how this operation can be simplified
to a one man routine?


Frank Dobner


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Date: Thu, 21 May 92 12:35:53 PDT
From: grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: BBC vs. BBW


I read JaH's posting about the friction between the BBC and the BBW,
and decided that this required some investigation. Tom Dalldorf,
editor of the Celebrator Beer News, just spoke with Jim Koch minutes
ago about this very topic. This is his side of the story.

Mr. Koch claims that he knew of a brewpub opening near Fenway Park,
but learned of its name only when he drove by and saw the sign. He
stopped to try negotiating with them at that time, but the BBW folks
were steadfast in their choice of names. Apparently one of the owners
of the BBW is a lawyer from NYC, who has decided that they should
dig in their heals on this. It's likely to get uglier.

Meanwhile Mr. Koch also says that BBC has received hundreds of calls
about their new brewpub, which of course doesn't exist. Furthermore,
some of these calls are from BBC's accounts, who are irate because 
they believe they are now competing with their supplier. Consequently,
JK feels that there is a real issue of consumer confusion here, and 
that the BBW is trying to capitalize on the success of the BBC to the 
BBC's detriment. Businesses copyright names for a reason, and JK now
feels compelled to protect his copyrights.

As beer afficionados, we are all very sensitive to cases of the big
guy picking on the little guy, but in this case, who is the bad guy?

Tom is planning on getting the other side of things from the folks at
BBW. We'll see what they have to say.

CR

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Date: Thu, 21 May 92 15:36 CDT
From: fjdobner at ihlpb.att.com
Subject: Mega-Brewers in Illinois?

	This may be a stab in the dark but if there is anyone in the Chicago 
area or in at least northern Illinois that is currently brewing in large 
quantities (perhaps in the thirty gallons or more range) and wouldn't mind 
assistance in your next batch, I sure would jump at the chance to be around for
the experience of one of these large brews. There are probably a thousand
things I would like to know. I have a strong interest in micro-brewing and this
is a nice transition step for me in pursuing that. All heavy labor is expected.
Any takers?

Frank Dobner


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Date: 21 May 1992 23:16:18 CDT
From: "Roger Deschner " <U52983 at UICVM.UIC.EDU>
Subject: David Arnold's Visit to Germany

Do not miss Dusseldorf! This city is home to the true ALTBIER style, and
it is made far better here than anywhere else. My favorite stop is ZUM
URIEGE brewpub, in the Altstadt, which makes a stupefyingly great
altbier. Michael Jackson gives it four stars, and his description of Zum
Uriege in his "Pocket Guide to Beer" is mouthwatering.

I used the Jackson pocket guide as a beer tourguide to Germany - it
contains addresses and phone numbers of breweries, brew-pubs, and best of
all, brewery-hotels.

The best brewery-hotel I encountered was Hotel Hirsch in Ottoburen, which
has a swimming pool heated by the brew kettle. There are many others;
they are members of a brewery-hotel association, and you can get
a guidebook to their member establishments at any one of them.

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Date: Thu, 21 May 92 23:06:05 EDT
From: jdg at grex.ann-arbor.mi.us (Josh Grosse)
Subject: Mazer Cup Mead Competition

              1992 Mazer Cup Mead Competition
                              
     Sanctioned by the American Homebrewers Association
          Presented by the Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
                              
Eligibility:

     o    This competition is open to all brewers of Mead.
     
     o    The fee is $5.00 per entry.
     
     o    All entries must be received between Monday, June
          22, and Friday, July 3, 1992.
     
     o    First round judging will be the weekend of July
          12.
     
     o    Final round judging the weekend of July 19, 1992.
     
Categories:

     1.   Traditional Mead

     Flavored Meads:

     2.   Melomel: fruit, other than apples or grapes

     3.   Cyser: Apples
     
     4.   Pyment: Grapes
     
     5.   Hippocras: spiced pyment
     
     6.   Metheglin: herbs, spices
     
     7.   Braggot: malted barley
     
Awards and prizes:

     First place mead in each category will receive a
     certificate and a mazer cup.
     
     Second place mead in each category will receive a
     ribbon and a mazer cup.
     
     Third place mead in each category will receive a ribbon
     and a mazer cup.
     
     BEST OF SHOW will receive the Best of Show ribbon and
     the coveted, hand-crafted communal mazer.
     
Sponsers:

     o    American Mead Association, Ostrander, Ohio
     
     o    G.W. Kent, Inc., Ann Arbor, Michigan
     
     o    Home Winery Supply, Dundee, Michigan
     
For more information:

     Ken Schramm, Competition Director       313-291-6694
     Dan McConnell, Judge Director           313-663-4845
     Mike O'Brien, Competition Registrar     313-482-8565
                                        FAX  313-485-BREW


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #887, 05/22/92