FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  hops, water (Russ Gelinas)
  Hop Cuttings (fjdobner)
  Info about AHA championship (Lars Nilsson)
  beechwood use by A-B (chris campanelli)
  growing hops (Michael Gildner)
  yeast culture (DAMON_NOEL/HP0800_01)
  Growing hops in sunny Cleveland, OH (Subbakrishna Shankar)
  Re: hops (korz)
  Re: hoses (korz)
  Pumpernickel Porter Recipe (Mark J. Easter)
  cats meow I & II (Tom Haley)
  Re: Hops (Tim Tessin)
  Re: Keg fitting removal from Micah Millspaw (Steve Dempsey)
  lager questions answered (florianb)
  pin lock vs. ball lock kegs (Brian Davis)
  Strawberry Mead (LEONH001)
  Grain Storage (fjdobner)
  Quantifying Hop Aromatics (Jon Binkley)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 May 1992 9:39:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: hops, water

  Re. a question on hops: The first year will not yield any hops to speak
of; it takes at least 2 years before you get any measurable harvest, and it
is also dependent on the type of hops.  Cascade grows faster in general than
Hallertauer, for example.  For fertilizing, I've heard than cow manure works
well, but I use Miracle Grow instead, with good results.

  My cellar gets damp and musty in the summer, so I have a constant supply
of water produced from the de-humidifier.  Would this be good water to
brew with?  Seems like it should be pure unadulterated water....

Russ

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Date: Mon, 25 May 92 09:06 CDT
From: fjdobner at ihlpb.att.com
Subject: Hop Cuttings

Hop Growers,

I have been granted access to a colleague's flourishing Cascade hop plants
to take whatever cuttings I wish. Two days ago I showed up at his house and 
began to dig down to the root level only top find a huge "mother ship" root
system from which almost all the shoots propagated. I cut off a few shoots
and was told by my wife to stick the new cuttings in water to allow rootlets
to emerge prior to planting in soil. Unfortunately, the cuttings died right 
there in the drinking glass, an unheroic death.

My question to you is what is the proper way to do this whole thing: cutting,
rooting, planting...? If anyone has any information by which I can improve, it
would be very generous and welcomed. Thanks

Frank Dobner

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Date: Mon, 25 May 92 20:14:52 MET DST
From: etxsral at hal.ericsson.se (Lars Nilsson)
Subject: Info about AHA championship


How can I get info about the winners in the AHA
championship ?
( We have some swedes in the game )

Someone here read something about real-time info in
Compuserve but I don't have access to that.

( But I can telnet. )

/Lars Nilsson

(For the Swedish HomeBrew Association) 
- -- 
Lars Nilsson                                |
Senior Specialist - Data Communication      |
Ericsson Telecom AB , Stockholm - Sweden    |
Phone: +46 8 719 7308 , Fax: +46 8 645 6076 |
E-mail: etxsral at hal.ericsson.se             |

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Date: Mon, 25 May 92 12:32 CDT
From: akcs.chrisc at vpnet.chi.il.us (chris campanelli)
Subject: beechwood use by A-B

     The following excerpts are taken from The Practical Brewer by the
Master Brewers Association of the Americas:

 . . .The old traditional European process involved adding beechwood chips
(40cm x 2cm) to the fermenters claiming improved fermentation rate,
better settling of yeast and colloidal substances, adding special and
desirable flavor characteristics to the beer and also improving the
physical stability of the final beer.  Since the application of such a
process is extremely labor-intensive and requires the strictest
sanitation, this method is not in wide use.  It should be noted, however,
that one of the world's largest brewers uses this technique in its
Kraeusening process. . . .

 . . . Beechwood chips are added to the kraeusen tank by at least one
brewer.  The chips are about two feet long, four inches wide and 1/4 inch
thick when new.  The are manually placed in the kraeusen tank to a depth
of three or four feet.  They must be removed after each tank drop, washed
and sterilized prior to installation in another tank.  The chips increase
the surface area, thereby allowing more complete fermentation with
flocculent yeasts.  They also slow the mixing of the kraeusen beer with
the fermented beer, which results in more complete end fermentation and
certain flavor effects.  There is no flavor extracted from the wood into
the beer. . . .

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Date: Tue, 26 May 92 08:21:31 EDT
From: mmlai!lucy!gildner at uunet.UU.NET (Michael Gildner)
Subject: growing hops


Hello folks,

I've just got a couple of comments about the hops I planted
earlier this spring.  I've got three plants with three main
vines coming off each plant.  The vines on one plant are nearly
six feet tall however the other two have only inched along to 
about 3 feet.  The only difference I could see is that the 6' vines 
are climbing up natural jute line and the 3' vines are climbing up
poly-nylon string.  Could the nylon string slow the growth of the
vines?

Anyway, I replaced the nylon string with natural jute so we will
if this makes any difference.

Mike Gildner

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Date: Tue, 26 May 92 07:51:29 -0600
From: DAMON_NOEL/HP0800_01%mailhub.cs.itc.hp.com at cs.itc.hp.com
Subject: yeast culture

As a novice, a disgusted one, in yeast culture I have a couple of questions
for the experienced.  I have been working up a recipe in which I have used
Wyeast Irish Ale.  First from a foil pouch, secondly from a slant given to
me which was purportedly cultured from a pouch, and thirdly from a liquid
culture also given to me from the same source.  The first two batches fermented
out rapidly to the static state with good results.  The third (current)
batch of identical constituents is on its 3rd week of fermentation and still
chugging.  A taste test was not good.  Unfortunately there is an added
variable, the last batch was made in a new mash/lauter tun in which I used
a 1" circular copper slotted tube as the filter element.  This was its first
use, and although I cleaned the copper well, when the mash was done, the
tube was a much brighter uniform color than when I started.  Is it possible that
copper salts were generated which did a number on some of the yeasties, or am
I left to conclude a yeast problem?
Second question...I note from the special yeast edition of Zymurgy that
Whitbread is a combination of 3 yeast strains, no one of which is a self-
sufficient one for brewing.  Can one conclude from this that propagation
from a single colony from a slant would only pick up a single strain and
therefore not work?
Not worried, it's too late for that...the batch goes down the tubes.

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Date: Tue, 26 May 92 10:34:52 -0400
From: sxs32 at po.CWRU.Edu (Subbakrishna Shankar)
Subject: Growing hops in sunny Cleveland, OH



I recently purchased (Freshhops) and planted 3 rhizome varieties (Cascade,
Nugget, and Willamette, 2 each) in my backyard.  Despite my best efforts at
soil preparation (peat moss, topsoil, fertilizer) and frequent watering
only one rhizome has sent up shoots (a Cascade).  Another rhizome that I
planted in a clay pot in potting soil (a Willamette) has been cooking along
and has reached 6-7" tall.  Is it normal for rhizomes to remain dormant for
a month after planting?  Am I doing something wrong?  Should I dig up the
ones that show no activity and restart them in pots?  We have had fairly
warm weather for the past few weeks and I assume that should be sufficient
to get the buggers going.  Thanks in advance for your advice and
experience.




- --
Subba Shankar
E-mail: sxs32 at po.cwru.edu (Internet)    U.S. Snail: Dept. of Neurosciences
Voice:  (216)368-2195                               Case Western Reserve U.
FAX:    (216)368-4650                               Cleveland, OH 44106

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Date: Tue, 26 May 92 12:16 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Re: hops

Frank asks about hops in Illinois.

I live in Palos Hills "Star Trek XIII: Spock Plays Right Wing for the
Hawks" Illinois, and actually began writing this directly to Frank, but
then decided to post instead.

This year, your yield will be zero.  Next year you can begin to expect
some yield.  You will have to spray with Malathion, Diazanon or
(what I use this year) Sevin to keep the aphids at bay.  Something else,
maybe slugs, are eating some of my leaves at night.  I had considered 
using Ladybugs to get the aphids, but that "something else" would have
eaten the leaves as they did last year, so I (regrettably) chose to go
the Chemistry route.  Rabbits love hops too, the deer don't seem to
bother with them, but then the rabbit fencing I used may have kept them
away till the daylily leaves got tall enough for them to eat.  You will
need to put some rabbit fencing around them.

They prefer to grow on string.  I've given them 12.5 feet and some of the
shoots are already nearing the top.  I may consider giving them more, but
I don't know how yet (I have some oaks in the way and the oaks get preferential
treatment.)  This is only their second season.  [By the way, John Bull Beer
makes a good slug bait -- the slugs like it a lot more than I do.  If I
ever must drown in something, please let it be Kriek.]

Next spring, they hops will know when it's time for them to start.  On
really cold nights (frost warning), I wrapped the hills, rabbit fencing
and all, with plastic sheets.  Listen closely to the weather in the
spring.  If the hops are just a few inches tall or so, just pour some
compost on them to keep them warm.

You say, "making sure the sun does not scortch..."  I don't understand.
As long as you give them enough water, they will use all the sun you give
them.  I give each plant about 6.25 gallons of water every morning via a
timer-controlled soaker hose.  Water makes a big difference.  Initially,
I gave each hill (4: Hallertauer, Hersbrucker, Nugget and Willamette)
three 1 foot coils of soaker hose for 15 minutes per day.  I soon noticed
that the Willamette was doing much better than the Nugget, which was doing
better than the Hersbrucker, etc.  I noticed that the soaker hose was
spewing more at the near end than at the far end (I should have known).
After re-arranging the hose to give the far-end hills more hose, the
growth rate seems to have evened out.

I use Ortho plant food (15-5-5, I believe), but some of the lower leaves
are developing yellow spots.  I had planned to check my copy of Beecher
tonight to check what they are missing (Potassium, maybe?).  I've been
using the vegetable rate, but maybe hops need more than carrots.

Al.

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Date: Tue, 26 May 92 12:30 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Re: hoses

I have two comments on hoses.

Several posters suggested using vinyl hose for siphoning hot wort.
Don't do it!  PVC hose gets much too soft even at 150F, let alone
212F.  My Ace Hardware carries two types of hose.  Clear PVC and
a translucent white, firmer hose.  I used the soft, clear PVC for
the cold side of my immersion chiller and the firmer white plastic
hose for the hot side.  Works great.  I think it may be some kind of
PolyEthyline (PE) so it should be okay for siphoning wort.  I
suggest using that.

Regarding John's question on blowoff hoses:  Don't use the 5/16"
siphon hose!  It's too small!  Eventually, it will clog!  I use
1/2" ID -- 5/8" OD PVC hoses.  I've stuffed a short length of
1/2" OD firm, white plastic hose (see above) into the stopper and
then slipped the 3 feet of PVC over the end of that.  You can
also use a 1.125" OD PVC hose simply stuffed into the neck of the
carboy.  If your hardware store doesn't have it, virtually any
homebrew supply store can get it for you.

Al.

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Date: Tue, 26 May 92 09:14:36 PDT
From: Mark J. Easter <easterm at ccmail.orst.edu>
Subject: Pumpernickel Porter Recipe

          Last night I tasted a batch of porter that was inspired by a
          russian pumpernickel raisin bread baked in a local bakery.
          Thought I'd share the recipe and my observations with ya'll
          and solicit your advice for improvements.

                               PUMPERNICKEL PORTER
          Ingredients for 5 gallons:

          5 lbs 2-row Pale Malt           o.g.  1.043
          12 oz crystal (40L)             s.g.  1.011
          8 oz chocolate malt
          1 lb. flaked Rye
          4 oz cocoa powder
          4 oz freshly ground coffee (Costa Rican)
          1 cup unsulphered blackstrap mollases
          8 HBU's Willamette Hops
          Wyeast (Steinbart's)

          Temperatures are in degrees F.  Cook flaked rye for 5
          minutes in 1 quart water.  Mash-in the grist at 132 deg with
          10 cups water.  Adjust pH.  Raise temperature to 150 deg.,
          put into oven set at 150 deg. (my oven will allow this).
          Starch conversion rest for 90 minutes at 150 deg.  Sparge
          with 4 gallons 180 deg. water.  Add Molasses, Boil 90
          minutes, one hop addition at 60 minutes before end of boil.
          After boil, shut off heat, let temperature drop to 195 deg.
          and add cocoa powder and coffee.  Let sit for 10 minutes,
          then cool the wort (I put the covered pot into a tub of cold
          water.  It cools off within 45 minutes to about 80 deg.)
          Racked into a carboy, primed with a starter batch of yeast.
          Fermented in the primary 10 days, secondary for 1 week.
          Bottled with 2/3 cup dextrose.  It's been aging for 5 weeks.

          My Analysis:

          The beer is "complex", to say the least... It has a
          substantial malt-molasses-and-cocoa nose and my palate was
          satiated (almost overwhelmed) after one bottle.  There are
          obvious molasses, coffee, and cocoa overtones, but the hop
          bitterness and flavor are too subtle.  The color is a
          marvelous chocolate-reddish brown, with a beautiful
          creamy brown head (ala Guinness) which subsides quickly
          (unfortunately).  I think the beer would be improved by
          cutting the molasses, coffee, and cocoa in half and increase
          the HBU's to 11-12.  Adding some hops toward the end of the
          boil for flavor might be a nice addition, although the
          malt/molasses/cocoa nose is interesting and nice so I would
          not add aroma hops.  The beer is still "green".  Another
          month in the bottle should improve it.

          Has anybody out there brewed a similar batch or used these
          ingredients in combination?  Any ideas on how to use cocoa
          and coffee?  A friend of mine suggested "dry-hopping" the
          coffee and cocoa (to cut down the bitterness and still
          contribute flavor) by adding it to the secondary and let it
          sit 2 weeks or so.  Another friend, who has tasted the bread
          that inspired the beer, suggested adding raisins to the
          boil.  Anybody ever tried "raisin beer"?  Looking forward to
          your input!

          Mark Easter
          Corvallis, OR


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Date: 26 May 92 10:08:00 PST
From: Tom Haley <tah at ccgate.SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM>
Subject: cats meow I & II

I finally got a copy of catsmeow I AND II.  I am ready
to print them out, but after looking at them, it looks
like catsmeow II has all of catsmeow I included.  Is this
true?

Thanks for the help!

tom


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Date: Tue, 26 May 92 11:05:36 PDT
From: tjt at cirrus.com (Tim Tessin)
Subject: Re: Hops

>From: fjdobner at ihlpb.att.com
>Subject: Hops

>My question is, what kind
>of yield may I expect this year and will plants be able to survive the
>harsh winters we get here during its first calendar year in northern
>Illinois soil?

New York used to be a hop growing region, so I presume a freeze isn't
fatal.  I have just this week made some cuttings for my friends and I'll
see if they root and grow.  (They seem to be)  My first year yielded
about 1oz total hops per vine (I was happy).

Another question:  I have Fuggles and Hallertauer growing (No. Cal) and
my Fuggles is about 15 ft and has cones on it already.  Some are starting
to turn a bit brown on the edges (just like in fall harvest).  Should I
pluck the cones as they ripen?  They seem to be wonderfully fragrant and
there is good lupulin production.  I am just a bit surprised that 
there are mature cones already.  Will it flower all summer requiring me
to harvest once per week or so?  This is the 2nd year for this plant, it
sprouted in mid March, lots of sun and gets watered every day.  

Thanx 
Tim Tessin - Livermore Carboys
tjt at cirrus.com
uunet!cirrus.com!tjt

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Date: Tue, 26 May 92 14:37:55 MST
From: Steve Dempsey <steved at longs.lance.colostate.edu>
Subject: Re: Keg fitting removal from Micah Millspaw


> 	For those with pin lock kegs, I have a solution to the problem
> of removing the pin fitting from the kegs. ...
> it can be ordered from Benjamin Machine Products 1121 Doker Unit 7
> Modesto, CA. 95351  phone or fax 209-523-8874. The cost is $15 plus shipping,
> and tax if in CA. By the way it fits on 3\8 drive rachets. 

This tool is easy to make.  Find a cheap 13/16" spark plug socket for under
$5 at any hardware store.  These are not hardened like most tools because
they don't have to take as much torque; look for the warning that it should
not be used for anything except spark plugs.  Use a metal-cutting band saw
or grinder (or even a hack saw will do) to cut notches in the end of the
socket at the points of the hexagon, about 1/4" wide and 3/8" deep.  The
notches will allow the socket to come down over pins and reach the body
of the fitting.  Now you're ready to jam a pipe or other lever through
the handle holds on the keg and crank those fittings off or on.


             Steve Dempsey,  Engineering Network Services
  Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523    +1 303 491 0630
INET: steved at longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu, dempsey at handel.CS.ColoState.Edu
UUCP: boulder!ccncsu!longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu!steved, ...!ncar!handel!dempsey


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Date: Tue, 26 May 92 12:32:48 PDT
From: florianb at chip.cna.tek.com
Subject: lager questions answered

Yesterday, Peter Karlson asked some lager questions, which I will try to
answer as best I can.

>This is my first attempt at a lager, the primary fermenter is a 5 gal.
>glass carboy with a tube/bucket blow-by for 4-6 days  at  45-50 degrees.  The
>secondary fermentation will be in another glass carboy with a
>fermentation lock at 38 degrees.

>Question 1: Does it even have to be moved from the primary to the
>secondary or should I just leave it in the same carboy and lager it at 38
>degrees (a closed system).

You should rack it off the trub as soon as the primary fermentation is
over, which is roughly when the head falls. 50 F is a good temperature for
the primary fermentation. After racking, you should maintain the 50 F for
about a week to allow the beer to come out of shock. Then you should notice 
bubbles once more beginning to rise in the brew. At this point, you can
start lowering the temperature down to the 38 degrees at the rate of about
one or two degrees per day. This is important in order to not shock the 
yeast. After the temp is down to your lager point, you can leave it there
until your patience runs out.

Actually, you can do the secondary fermentation at 50 F for several weeks
before beginning the lager phase, if you want.

>Question 2: After lagering at 38 degrees, what do I do at bottling time, do I
>need to keep the bottled beer refrigerated?

After bottling, you will want the brew to carbonate. So you can raise the
temperature of the bottled beer to 45 or so. The carbonation step can be
as long as 1-2 weeks. Then you should again lower the temperature to
38 or lower in steps of 5 degrees. I find the sequence to be fairly arbitrary
at this time. However, the actual bottle aging can be carried out at 32 F for
a very clean lager. Taste a bottle occasionally to determine when it's right.

>Question 3: About dry-hopping, the recipe was originally for a pilsner but
>it seemed too hoppy, so I didn't dry-hop.  What is the advantage/result of
>dry hopping (bitterness, flavor, aroma).  How do you dry hop?  When do you
>add the hops to the fermenter (primary/secondary), I'm using pellet hops,
>should I throw them in loose or in a cheese cloth bag.  If you do move the
>beer to a secondary fermenter, how do you/do you filter out the hops.
>Any help on this subject would be greatly appreciated.

I personally don't see how a pilsener can be too hoppy. The advantage of 
dry hopping is to put hop aroma into the beer. But with pilsener, the
delicate aroma can be obtained by putting the aroma hops in during the
last 5 minutes of boil with the lid on. If you put hop pellets in the
secondary fermenter, you will risk clouding the beer and putting funky
tastes into it (I think). I've never done it. If you are kegging, dry
hopping becomes trivial with good fresh cone hops and a cheesecloth bag.
In any case, I can't recommend dry hopping a pilsener. Dry hopping is a good
way to get tremendous aroma for an ale. For example, if you use CFJ-90
(Centennial) in a keg of pale ale, you will get an incredible aroma that
is nearly impossible by hopping in the kettle (NPI).

Hope this helps.
Florian

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Date: Tue, 26 May 92 10:58:44 pdt
From: Brian Davis <brian%mbf.uucp at ics.uci.edu>
Subject: pin lock vs. ball lock kegs

In HBD 886, Richard Dale <rsd at silk.udev.cdc.com> said:

	>I find that the ball lock is much easier to dismantle than the pin
	>lock.  The ball lock fittings can be easily removed/installed from 
	>your kegs using an ordinary deep socket.  (Some require a 12 pt
	>socket)  It's fast and you have good control over torque, etc...

	>There may be a special tool you can get for removing/installing 
	>pin-lock fittings from/on your kegs but I don't own one or know
	>where to order one.  I do it by working with an open-end wrench
	>through a handle slot,  doing the "turn your open-end wrench over
	>every 30 degress" technique, with the wrench wedged in at kind of
	>a funny angle. Not as good.  Maybe I'm doing this wrong, someone
	>tell me.

I just bought some pin lock kegs yesterday.  Their previous owner made his
own pin lock removal tool.  It was a 13/16 ( I think ) deep socket with
slots cut in the side to match up with the pins on the fittings.  It looked
MUCH easier than wrench flipping.

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Date: Tue, 26 May 1992 11:31 EDT
From: LEONH001 at mc.duke.edu
Subject: Strawberry Mead

Hi Youall,
  This is my first post so I hope I'm doing this right.
Awhile back, someone asked for a recipe for strawberry mead.  Did it
get any replies?  I've been gone for a week and had my mail turned
off.  Any and all recipes would be appreciated, the 15# of berries in
the freezer are ready and willing to be turned into a beautiful mead.
                                            Thanks!
                                            Dave from Duke (Please
try not to hold that against me)

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Date: Tue, 26 May 92 20:30 CDT
From: fjdobner at ihlpb.att.com
Subject: Grain Storage


I have recently been fortunate enough to have come across two little metal 
barrels with removable lids. Each one holds a volume of about 8-9 gallons
liquid which is about the perfect size for the two types of grain that
I store: two row pale and wheat malt. The problem that I have encountered 
is that on the label it says "Sumitomo Metal Mining Co. Ltd: Nd-Fe-B Alloy
Powder." Not being particularly aware of my chemical compounds, I am
very hesitant to store anything in there (even in a plastic bag) since
it could be toxic.

My questions are 1) is this stuff dangerous or am I making a big deal out
of this? 2) How might I go about making these barrels suitable for storing
grain? Your responses as always are valued.


Frank Dobner

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Date: Tue, 26 May 92 20:49:19 -0600
From: Jon Binkley <binkley at beagle.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: Quantifying Hop Aromatics


Has anyone come up with a formula for calculating
hop flavor and aroma?

Jon Binkley


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #889, 05/27/92