HOMEBREW Digest #890 Thu 28 May 1992

Digest #889 Digest #891

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Racking tubes (Hugh R Bynum)
  Re: Grain storage ("ROBERT W. HOSTETLER")
  Beechwood chips (STROUD)
  Hops / Insects / Natural Pesticides (lee_menegoni)
  Summary of blow-off responses, etc. (ZLPAJGN)
  re Hop Cuttings (Carl West)
  dehumidifier water for brewing (John Freeman)
  Dehumidifier water (Arthur Delano)
  Auto_Mash (James Dipalma)
  The NEW mill from MIcah Millspaw (Bob Jones)
  Re: Pumpernickel Porter Recipe (Brian Bliss)
  sugar (Robert Schultz)
  fertilzing hops (Tom McCollough)
  Kriek Lambic and weiss beer (Bill Flowers)
  Wort Chiller (fjdobner)
  Nd-Fe-B Alloy Barrels from Sumitomo Mining Corp (really?) (S94WELKER)
  Re: Pumpernickel Porter Recipe (Pat Lasswell)
  a&q ("Dr. John")
  hops cuttings (Jack Schmidling)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 26 May 92 11:23:10 PST From: Hugh R Bynum <Hugh_R_Bynum at ccm.hf.intel.com> Subject: Racking tubes Several people responded to a query about racking tubes and recommended using copper pipe or tubing. A tip to make the job easier: buy a tube bender along with the tubing when you make the trip to your local hardware or home supply store. This tool is a piece of coil spring, about 6"-7" long, with an inside diameter that matches the outside diameter of the tubing you want to bend. Slip the spring over the tubing where you're going to bend it, then bend the tubing GENTLY inside the spring. The spring keeps the tubing from kinking (as long as you don't try for too small a radius), and can be slipped off over the bend. Tube benders are usually sold on the same rack as fittings and all those other copper goodies you'll get to know and love as a brewer. The $2 or so they cost is well worth the investment. Hugh Bynum Portland, Oregon hugh at littlei.intel.com Return to table of contents
Date: 27 May 92 07:14:00 EST From: "ROBERT W. HOSTETLER" <8220RWH at INDINPLS.NAVY.MIL> Subject: Re: Grain storage The kegs with the Nd-Fe-B markings held a a metal alloy powder used to make magnets. Nd is Neodynium, Fe is Iron, and B is boron. None of them are particularly toxic, in the sense of lead or arsenic. Wash then well and use use them as you intended. If you're extremely paranoid, coat the inside with polyurethane from the local paint store, but let that stuff cure for a good long time so the grain doesn't pick up a strange taste. Another topic: I'm about to start my first batch, and I'd appreciate any hints over and above what's available in TNCJoH or on the Munton and Fison kit I'm using. I think I've got relax and don't worry down, but I don't have the homebrew. Guess that I'll have to settle for a Molson's. Bob Hostetler 8220rwh at indy.navy.mil Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 May 1992 10:03 EST From: STROUD <STROUD%GAIA at leia.polaroid.com> Subject: Beechwood chips About 3 years our club performed an experiment with aging a beer on beechwood. Here is the expt. and results: About the beer: This was a partial mash/partial extract golden ale, 5 gallons total. Starting gravity was 1.050, finishing gravity was 1.010. Wyeast #1084 ale yeast was used and total fermentation time was about 5 weeks, including aging in the secondary (3 weeks). The beer was split at the secondary stage: half was aged on 1 oz of sterilized beechwood biscuits (aka splines, obtainable from many woodworking stores. They were sterilized by boiling), while the other half underwent standard secondary fermentation. Neither batch was fined. The two batches were bottled and allowed to condition, then served to the club in a blind tasting. People made comments before the beers' identities were revealed. Results: About 80% of the tasters preferred (and could pick out) the beechwood aged beer. Most people thought that it was the fuller and rounder of the two, although there was some disagreement. Unlike oak, the beechwood aging didn't appear to add much 'woodiness' to the beer. The clarity of the two batches was excellent in both cases. PS - I have since routinely used beechwood in many of my pale ales and find that it often adds an interesting nuance to their flavor profiles. I have seen no indication that it makes much difference in the final clarity of the beer. I have never used beechwood in a lager, but this discussion has made me wonder what it would do. Perhaps in my next batch.......... Steve Stroud Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 May 92 08:58:23 EDT From: lee_menegoni at ptltd.com Subject: Hops / Insects / Natural Pesticides I use a citrus based soap product marketed under the "SAFER" brand name to keep aphids off my rose bushes with great success. This product has no chemical pesticides and is readily soluble in water. I paid $8 for 16 ozs of concentrate which is mixed 1 tablespoon per quart. My local gardening store has other "natural" pesticides for various insect infestations. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 May 92 10:31 CDT From: ZLPAJGN%LUCCPUA.bitnet at UICVM.UIC.EDU Subject: Summary of blow-off responses, etc. Dear Brewers, First, thanks to all who responded to my questions regarding my stained siphon/blow-off hose. I guess there's little to summarise, as I received almost unanimous responses, i.e.: get another hose for my siphoning, but keep this one for future use with blow-offs. I did get some varience with suggestions for future blow-off methods, especially when I plan to use whole leaf hops in the boil (or even dry hopping). Most of those who responded suggested that I invest in another, wider I/O diameter hose which would fit snugly into the mouth of the carboy thus decreasing the possibilities of clogging. Luckily, there's an Ace Hardware store just down the block from my appartment and I can get both hoses - replacement siphoning hose and the wider blow-off - with relative ease. Thanx again to all, and I'll keep you posted! On a different note, can anyone tell me an accurate (or approximate) way to measure one pound of corn sugar without a scale? My latest batch - which prompted all the questions about blow-off hoses - called for 1 lb. of corn sugar, and I had to guess using a 1 cup measure how much sugar that was (and judging from the low OSG, I guessed lightly). So can anyone answer the question, how many cups of corn sugar equal (approximately) one pound? Thanx in advance. John Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 May 92 10:59:00 EDT From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West) Subject: re Hop Cuttings I've had fair luck rooting cuttings this way: take a cutting with at least 4 pairs of leaves pluck off the bottom pair of leaves dip the bottom inch or so in rooting hormone stick in very wet potting soil (read: thick mud) in a pot with no drainage put the whole mess in a plastic bag (transparency is not vital) seal with a twist tie leave it alone for a week or more in a sunny window I've been getting better than 50% success. Carl WISL,BM. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 May 92 11:06:40 CDT From: jlf at palm.cray.com (John Freeman) Subject: dehumidifier water for brewing > My cellar gets damp and musty in the summer, so I have a constant supply > of water produced from the de-humidifier. Would this be good water to > brew with? Seems like it should be pure unadulterated water.... > I tried it once, believe it or not, 23 years ago. This was my first batch of beer, and aside from all the other things we did wrong, we used dehumidifier water. It had a metallic flavor. I believe the correct word here is "duh". Maybe dehumidifier technology has advanced in the last 23 years, so I would recommend taste the water before you use it. If the ingredients don't taste good, neither will the final product. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 May 92 12:22:54 EDT From: Arthur Delano <ajd at itl.itd.umich.edu> Subject: Dehumidifier water Russ Gelinas asks if dehumidifier water is good to use in homebrew. Well, last fall I made a bitters with dehumidifier water and it turned out all right. The water is pretty soft, similar to distilled water. Before collecting the water for brewing, be certain to wash the catch basin out thoroughly. I'm currently collecting water for another batch, but have to start over because my roommate found most of a spider in the catch basin. Out go five gallons! Before using the collected water, I boiled the amount I was going to add after boiling the wort (I extract brew). Although none of us smoke, I thought it was a good idea to sanitize water left sitting in open air. Then again, I boil the tap water I use for homebrewing too. AjD Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 May 92 13:11:02 EDT From: dipalma at banshee.sw.stratus.com (James Dipalma) Subject: Auto_Mash Hi All, I'm interested in a mashing system called AutoMash, made by Scientific Brewing Systems of Martinez, Calif. Does anyone have any experience/information on this system, how well(if at all) does it work, how easy is it to use, price, etc. Please feel free to send email. Thanks, Jim Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 May 92 14:33:47 -0400 From: bradley at adx.adelphi.edu (Dr. Robert Bradley) Greetings fellow brewers, I recently returned from my first ever visit to Colorado. Nice place; kinda like Alberta, only drier :-) I was quite impressed with the level of micro/brewpub activity. Is it possible that this is the state with the largest # of micro/brewpubs per capita? Being an ale-man, I was particularly impressed with the variety of homegrown ales available in the better beer stores. The only brewery I visited was Breckenridge, a brewpub which also bottles and sells locally (in very dark 22 oz. bottles). My favourites were their oatmeal stout and IPA. I was also impressed by a bottle of their wheat beer (60% wheat, 40% barley), but the glass I had at the pub was ho-hum and lacked the clovey distinctiveness of the (older) bottled sample. There is a notable peculiarity in their brewing process. Their kettle has a 500 gal. capacity, but their fermenters hold 1000 gal. So, they brew up 500 gal., aerate, cool and pitch the yeast, then brew another batch the next day and ADD NEW WORT TO AN ALREADY WORKING BATCH!!!!!! The person I talked to (assistant brewmaster, I think) said that they aerate the second batch to a lesser extent and, because of an earlier start on Day 2, it's somewhat less than 24 hours between additions. Pretty weird, huh? At least, that's what it seemed to me. Still, the results speak for themselves; the beer is good. I was trying to think if a scenario where a home-brewer might find such a system useful, but I couldn't come up with anything that wasn't totally contrived. Does anybody brew this way? How far do you folks think this process could be carried on: to a third addition 48 hours later? A fourth after 72 hours? etc? Rob (bradley at adx.adelphi.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 May 1992 11:20 PDT From: Bob Jones <BJONES at NOVA.llnl.gov> Subject: The NEW mill from MIcah Millspaw Success at last. Bob and myself have been trying to build a malt mill for several months, and this weekend I finaly got mine debugged. This mill provides the BEST crush I have ever seen. It has two 4 inch diametre rollers that are 4 inches wide. They are both in-running driven by 4 inch dia. spur gears. The mill is powered by a 1\2 horsepower washing machine motor with two speeds. The slick part about this mill is the fact that the gap between the rollers is not adjustable. We found that the adjusting mechanism was the weak point in everyone elses grain mill. And so it was eliminated. It seemed that once the mill was adjusted to provide a good crush it was then left alone, hopefully to stay put (gap wise) A formula was found to help determine the proper gap size and the speed at which to turn the rollers, the main problem that we ran into was getting enough torque, but a big motor fixed that. At present the gap is set at .050 inch and the rollers have a fine straight knurl on them. This setup does a excellent job on both barley and wheat and even dextrin malt. The thru feed is about four pounds per minute. radius of roll + 1\2 gap angle of nip cos a = ------------------------------- radius of roll + radius of particle an angle of 12-14 is good. speed - 6-13 surface feet per second is good rpm sfm = ---- * diametre sfs=sfm/60 3.82 5250 * horsepower torque = ------------------- rpm perhaps this info will be of use to some who are building their own equipment. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 May 92 15:09:14 CDT From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss) Subject: Re: Pumpernickel Porter Recipe Mark J. Easter <easterm at ccmail.orst.edu> brews: > PUMPERNICKEL PORTER > Ingredients for 5 gallons: > > 5 lbs 2-row Pale Malt o.g. 1.043 > 12 oz crystal (40L) s.g. 1.011 > 8 oz chocolate malt > 1 lb. flaked Rye > 4 oz cocoa powder > 4 oz freshly ground coffee (Costa Rican) > 1 cup unsulphered blackstrap mollases > 8 HBU's Willamette Hops > Wyeast (Steinbart's) > > Temperatures are in degrees F. Cook flaked rye for 5 > minutes in 1 quart water. Mash-in the grist at 132 deg with > 10 cups water. Adjust pH. Raise temperature to 150 deg., > put into oven set at 150 deg. (my oven will allow this). > Starch conversion rest for 90 minutes at 150 deg. Sparge > with 4 gallons 180 deg. water. Add Molasses, Boil 90 > minutes, one hop addition at 60 minutes before end of boil. > After boil, shut off heat, let temperature drop to 195 deg. > and add cocoa powder and coffee. Let sit for 10 minutes, > then cool the wort (I put the covered pot into a tub of cold > water. It cools off within 45 minutes to about 80 deg.) > Racked into a carboy, primed with a starter batch of yeast. > Fermented in the primary 10 days, secondary for 1 week. > Bottled with 2/3 cup dextrose. It's been aging for 5 weeks. > > Has anybody out there brewed a similar batch or used these > ingredients in combination? Any ideas on how to use cocoa > and coffee? A friend of mine suggested "dry-hopping" the > 1) try putting the coffee in the mash. this will help reduce any astringency from the coffee grounds. an alternative is to brew up a bunch of it separately, and add it to the boil. You do not leave grains of any sort in the boil. 2) With the flaked rye adjunct (or any non-barley malt/adjunct), it is desirable to use a higher enzyme lager malt, and a lower temp (122F) protein rest, according to TCHOHB (Miller). 10 cups H2O for > 6lbs grains seems like it would make for an awfully stiff mash, too. 3) Replace the molasses with brown sugar. Molasses leaves a notorious aftertaste, but this will fade with time (a long time - 6 months to a year or more - depending upon the type of molasses) After it develops a better head, try putting a bottle in the fridge for a month. A taste will give you a better idea what it will mature into. 4) You can always try rye malt instead of flaked rye. I brewed up a batch of "Bock 'n Rye" (I'm trademarking the name :-) a few months ago. After 2 months in the bottle, it had a definite funky whiskey-like flavor, fading into a bitter aftertaste. After 3 months (at 50-60F), the bitter aftertaste had diminished substantially. 5) use real chocolate instead of powdered??? I don't know - I've never put chocolate in my beer... 6) Put a case in your basement and don't bring it out until you're old and gray and don't have anything better to do (by which time, brewing will probably be illegal, along with everything else worthwhile, and you'll have the added satisfaction of making a political statement whilst you inbibe). bb Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 May 1992 14:25 CST From: Robert Schultz <SCHULTZ at admin1.usask.ca> Subject: sugar Can anyone tell me the difference between corn sugar (dextrose) and icing sugar? One of the bulk food stores has large quanities of icing sugar at unbelievable prices, they don't carry dextrose (yet). Rob Schultz ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "I'm going off half-cocked? I'm going off half-cocked? ... Well, Mother was right - You can't argue with a shotgun." - Gary Larson ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 May 92 14:39:08 -0600 From: lager!wtm at hellgate.utah.edu (Tom McCollough) Subject: fertilzing hops After consulting with my local nurseryman I am feeding my new hop starts a mixture of the following: 4 lbs. 0-45-0 5 lbs. 10-10-10 I'm applying this mix in scant amounts on a regular basis. "Dave" (the nurseryman) tells me that I will have no crop to speak of this year. My goals for this season, he says, should be to develop the rhizomes if I want to have a decent crop next season. Boosting the middle number will develop the root system. Next season we will work on boosting the last number. I'm not sure why yet -- I'll find out next season. Tom Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 May 92 15:52:48 EDT From: waflowers at quantum.on.ca (Bill Flowers) Subject: Kriek Lambic and weiss beer Recently while on a business trip I discovered a restaurant (The Full Moon on Main St. in Ann Arbor MI) which had an amazing selection of international beers. For the first time I was able to try Lindeman's Kriek and various German Weiss beers (along with others I've only heard about such as Xingu). I also found a store (The Beer Depot, one block down and turn the corner from The Full Moon) which claimed to have over 200 types of beer (they had all the bottles on display; I believe them) so I was able to buy a few of the better ones and bring them home. My wife sampled the Kriek I brought home (as did my mother-in-law, and brother- and sister-in-law who all loved it) and declared that she could drink gallons of it this summer. The amazing thing about this is that the kindest thing she has ever said about any beer in the past is that it was barely tolerable if she was extremely thirsty (this includes numerous European brews). Personally I am completely hooked on the German Weiss beers I tried (served with yeast and a twist of lemon): Hacker-Pschorr Weiss and Ayinger Brau-Weisse (I brought back a bottle of Ayinger Ur-Weisse which I haven't tried yet). My questions: Has anyone tried the Brewferm Kriek kit (from Belgium)? How close is it to the wonderful Kriek Lambic I tried? It isn't cheap (Cdn$20.59) esp. as it makes only 12L (instead of the normal 19L). I plan on starting it this weekend to generate those "gallons" my wife wants for the hot weather. It calls for some sugar (500g I think), but I was thinking of substituting alfalfa honey. I think it will give me the light body called for (which DME wouldn't) without the off flavours of corn sugar. Comments? Similarly, what is the Brewferm Weiss kit like? Should I substitute wyeast #3056 (Bavarian wheat) for the supplied dry yeast? (I know, always throw away the dry yeast that comes with a kit and substitute ...). Which reminds me, what about the yeast in the Kriek kit? Finally, has anyone had any success duplicating Kriek or a wonder weiss like I tried from recipe? (Extract recipes if possible, I don't mash.) I recall the recipe in the appendix (Sour mash and lambics) in TNCJoHB. The difficulty is obtaining the proper yeast(s) (can it/they be obtained commercially at all?). If I know which Wyeast to order my brew store will special order it for me. They normally only carry 5 strains. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 May 92 18:19:25 -0500 From: Brewing Chemist Walter <walterbj at ernie.cis.uwosh.edu> Howdy Fellow Brewers, I tried posting this last week, but it hasn't made a digest yet. Here it goes again! Brian With all the talk of the local brew fests, I thought I would put in Wisconsin's $0.02 worth. Here's the scoop: What : Wisconsin Microbrewers Beer Fest 1992 Hosted By Rowland's Calumet Brewing Co. Inc. Where : Brant Inn, Chilton Wisconsin When : Sunday May 31st, 1992 from 1:00 - 6:00 pm Who : Nerly every Wisconsin microbrewery will be represented! Appleton Brewing Company (Adler Brau), Appleton WI Brewmasters Pub, Kenosha WI Capitol Brewery (Garten Brau), Middleton WI Cherryland Brewing, Sturgeon Bay WI Fox Classic Brewery, Appleton WI Lakefront Brewery, Milwaukee WI Rowland's Calumet Brewing, Chilton WI Sprecher Brewery, Milwaukee WI Water Street Brewpub, Milwaukee WI Cost : $16.00 in advance, $18.00 at the door Tickets available from Rowlands Roll-Inn in Chilton, Galaxy Science and Hobby in Oshkosh (ask for Jeff), and ??????. B.Y.O. Lawn Chairs Music By Jerry Schneider Band For further info either call Rowland's at (414) 849 2534 Hope to see you there. Brian J Walter P.S. I am in no way connected with the beer fest, with the exception that I already have my tickets and plan on being there and drinking good beer. I am just helping out a few local brewmasters without their knowledge. Good Day Brian J Walter walterbj at ernie.cis.uwosh.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 May 92 18:24 CDT From: fjdobner at ihlpb.att.com Subject: Wort Chiller After all the great responses I got on ways of tranporting wort to my basement after brewing, I went out and bought some 1/2" copper tubing and vinyl hoses to siphon and simultaneously cool the wort. I even have approval from my wife to cut a nice round hole in the bottom of our kitchen cabinet, through the floor in order to feed the hose. I am very excited about solving this and actually improving the quality of my beer. My question is this: Does anyone have a nice equation that would relate the length of 1/2" coil that would be required to cool wort from temperature T1 (which would really be about 212F) to T2 (depending upon if it is ale or lager yeast I am using between 40-60 F). I would imagine the specific gravity would show up in there and since temperature is already an independent variable, it could also be used to correct the SG (that is if the gravity that is used in the equation is expressed at hydrometer temperature of 60F). I am most sure that the great minds in this crowd have already come up with something. If so your input would as always be most welcome. Frank Dobner PS; With a baby due any day now, I am likely to suggest that we name our baby after a great beer to commemorate this great process improvement in brewing. Maybe Porter? Or Marzena? NOT! By the way, I really look forward to reading the HBD everyday. I appreciate the knowledge, interest, tips, experience, advice and humor of the participants. Thanks for your contributions! Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 May 1992 21:36 EDT From: S94WELKER at usuhs Subject: Nd-Fe-B Alloy Barrels from Sumitomo Mining Corp (really?) I'm halfway to my MD, so I guess that means I'm halfway to knowing what I'm talking about, right? So maybe Frank and everyone else will halfway listen When I say...when it comes to reusing chemical containers, don't even think about it. While I can't jump up and scream "Neodymium will kill you cold as stone, and so will the other lanthanides!", I can say, "why take a stupid chance?" To save, maybe $40 over buying a couple of Rubbermaid trash cans? Is that worth an exposure to a chemical which is used to dope laser rods? Frank, if I can't cinvince you to toss those barrels, at least use them to store something you're not going to eat. Just because they lack the old skuull and crossbones poison hazard labels doesn't mean they're safe. Besides, who wants to explain to a beer judge "that lime green color might be from the boron residue the soap and water couldn't clean out of my grain storage buckets. 'Tastes like brake fluid,' you say? Maybe I'll call it 'Bhopal Pale Ale,' or 'Love Canal Porter!'" - -- - --Scott Welker Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 May 92 18:10:15 PDT From: Pat Lasswell <patl at microsoft.com> Subject: Re: Pumpernickel Porter Recipe I suspect that dry-hopping with coffee would destroy any head the beer might have, since (good) coffee contains a not insignificant amount of oil. Further, coffee that has been extracted with cold water has a substantial difference in flavor over hot-extracted coffee, so you might not get what you expect (if indeed, one could anticipate the results). You might try adding the coffee to the primary after the wort has been cooled, that way any oils extracted from the coffee would adhere to the yeast and not disturb the head. The activity of fermentation would probably flush out some of the aromatics, so it's anybody's guess as to what it would taste like. (Anybody done it?) Pat Lasswell Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 May 92 23:36:12 EDT From: "Dr. John" <JELJ at CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu> Subject: a&q Greetings all, Russ asks about the advisability of using dehumidifier water to brew with. Russ, would you drink this stuff? After looking in the catch basin on my dehumidifier I'd have to say that I'd rather use ditch water to brew with. Now for a question. I've got a weizen in the secondary which I intended as a dunkelweizen, but it isn't as dunkel as I'd like. I'm considering steeping a couple ounces of black patent malt with my primings in hopes of adjusting the color at bottling time. Has anyone tried anything like this? Does it seem like a reasonable idea? Any drawbacks I should consider? Ooogy wawa, Dr. John Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 May 92 21:58 CDT From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: hops cuttings To: Homebrew Digest Fm: Jack Schmidling >My question to you is what is the proper way to do this whole thing: cutting, rooting, planting...? If anyone has any information by which I can improve, it would be very generous and welcomed. Thanks Not sure about proper but I bought two small plants this winter and turned them into 8 by Spring. I simply took about two inches of the growing tips of several branches from each plant. These I put in water and they grew roots within about two weeks and were then planted in soil. I also found that if dipped in Rootone, they could be planted directly in potting soil and rooted readily. There doesn't seem to be any reason to use root risomes as the branches root just as easily. ............. Whitbred Yeast... Someone just posted an article about Whitbred yeast being a combination of several strains. Is this a fact or another momily? Does it apply to the dry version? I just pure cultured some from a pack of dry and will be pitiching in my next batch. If it is true, I just wasted a lot of effort. js js Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #890, 05/28/92