FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Partial mashes (CHUCK)
  Growth curves (Dennis J. Templeton)
  Bitter Beer (nnieuwej)
  Seattle Brewpubs and Accomodations (Scott Bickham)
  Evil water jugs (reply (Geoffrey Sherwood)
  Evil water jugs;  supplies in Boston area ("Roger Deschner  ")
  Re: dry hopping rates (Norm Pyle)
  Mountain View water *OPINION* (Jueal, Stacey)
  Extra Stoudt's Festival Tickets (GC Woods)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #900 (June 11, 1992) (GORDONSE)
  propane questions & esters from low lipids (Donald P Perley)
  An easier way of brewing? (Donald P Perley)
  soda kegs in HBD#898 (John Fitzgerald)


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Date: Thu, 11 Jun 92 02:42:52 PDT
From: CHUCK <UNDERWOOD at INTEL7.intel.com>
Subject: Partial mashes


	Hi all, 

	The other day I was able to help out on a friends first
	full mash.  I was suprised as to how easy it was!  
	The whole process took about 6 hours and aside from the
	fact that I don't own a 8 gallon brewpot I know I could
	do it now with no problems.  However...

	All I have is a 4 gallon brewpot.  So I'm thinking of moving
	up to a partial mash.  (I've been all extracts up till now)
	Papazian didn't go real deep into them and all the recipes were
	lagers.  Anyone care to send me some hints?  Recipes, how much
	grain, water, extract, etc.  Also all of Papazian's recipes
	called for a step mash compared to the straight 150 deg mash?
	He also mashed the crystal, specialty grains, too.  Why?

	Any help would be appreciated.
	
				Cheers,  Cu 

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Date: Thu, 11 Jun 92 10:37:12 -0400
From: djt2 at po.CWRU.Edu (Dennis J. Templeton)
Subject: Growth curves


Brett Lindenbach wrote a great piece on the growth of yeast that deserves 
repeating:

John, the idea behind this is that you want to pitch when the yeast are
most active. Here's a quicky on  how yeast (and other microorganisms)
grow (usually):
(monospace)

# |
  |               ---------
C |            +++
E |          ++
L |         +
L |        +
S |       +                                                    
  |     ++
  |=====
  ----------------------------
            TIME
   = lag phase
   + log phase
   - stationary phase

High krausen will occur during mid- to late-log phase, evidenced by the
healthy head. During this period, the yeast is gorging on all that nice
sugar, and dividing rapidly. Consequently, it will be able to take over
the wort very quickly. Thus, the yeast will be happy, and risk of
infection minimized. Happy brewing!

(end)

I wanted to comment that this curve (when modified slightly) applies to
populations of people as well as yeast, though the time frame is expanded
significantly.  Thus:

# |
P |               ---------
E |            +++         ooo
O |          ++               oooo
P |         +                     ooooooo    
L |        +        
E |       +                                                    
  |     ++
  |=====
  --------------------------------------- 
            TIME
   = lag phase			The current earth situation contains
   + log phase			geographic locales that fit all of these
   - stationary phase		phases, as shown below:
   o decay phase


# |                     Calcutta                                               
P |               ---------                                            
E |            +++         ooo                                       
O |          ++ ^             oooo 
P |         +   NY City           ooooooo
L |        +^                          ^
E |       + Phoenix                    Campden, N.J.
  |     ++                                                                 
  |=====                                                                   
    ^  
    Antarctica
  ---------------------------------------
            TIME                               

It should be noted that yeast also have a decay phase, and the junk at the 
bottom of a well-aged bottle of home-brew more closely resembles 
Campden than the Big Apple.


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Date: Thu, 11 Jun 92 10:46:45 -0400
From: nnieuwej at cub.bowdoin.edu
Subject: Bitter Beer

I like my beer bitter and hoppy.  So far the bitterest, hoppiest
beer I have found is Geary's Pale Ale (brewed right here in Maine :).

Is there any commercial beer which can beat Geary's in these areas?

 -Nils

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Date: Thu, 11 Jun 92 11:02:58 EDT
From: bickham at msc2.msc.cornell.edu (Scott Bickham)
Subject: Seattle Brewpubs and Accomodations

Northwesterners,
	In a couple of weeks, I will be spending a few days in Seattle.
I plan to visit the following brew pubs: Big Time, Pacific Northwest Brewing
Co., Pike Place, the Trolleyman/Red Hook, and Cooper's Northwest Alehouse 
(for both the beer and the darts).  Are there any glaring omissions in my
itinerary, and can anyone recommend reasonably priced accomodations?  Please
e-mail responses to
			bickham at msc.cornell.edu
		 or     bickham at crnlmsc2.bitnet

Thanks in advance,
		Scott
	

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Date: Thu, 11 Jun 92 08:26:01 -0700
From: sherwood at mv.us.adobe.com (Geoffrey Sherwood)
Subject: Evil water jugs (reply

Date: 10 June 1992 09:25:00 CDT
From: "Roger Deschner  " <U52983 at UICVM.UIC.EDU>
Subject: Evil water jugs;  supplies in Boston area

Roger Deschner says:

>The plastic water jugs are made of PETE, a modern polymer. The problem is
>not that the beer can do ANYTHING to it - in fact, PETE plastic was
>designed to resist almost anything you could put into it. The problem is
>that, in the cleaning process, there will always be microscopic
>scratches, which will harbor miniscule residues of wort and bacteria, and
>which can easily infect your SECOND batch made in the jug. The same
>problem can affect any plastic equipment, especially the plastic tubs
>(made of softer HDPE plastic) which are common in homebrew starter kits.

Ho, hum.  Yeah. I have heard this more times than I can count.  I still don't
buy it.  I have been brewing for over 10 years and have always used plastic
fermenters.  I clean them with greenies (green scrubbing pads) as often as not
and I am sure they have scratches in them.  While I have no doubt some bacteria
could hide in them, I am under no impression that I have a sterile
environment.  Period.  Not only does sanitizing not kill everything, but when
you put your beer in the fermenter (and especially when you aerate it) you
will *undoubtably* get some bacteria in it.  Now, if I had an infected batch
I might think twice about reusing the bucket if it were scratched, because we
are now dealing with a known problem source.  But until then I see no reason
to believe that nasty bacteria will spontaneously grow in scratches in the
plastic.   If they come in, they will come in from the air (from which we have
no protection in any event).

Geoff Sherwood

(and {knock on plastic} I have *never* had an infection in my beer)

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Date: Thu, 11 Jun 92 09:19:19 MDT
From: pyle at intellistor.com (Norm Pyle)
Subject: Re: dry hopping rates

Sean J. Caron <CARONS at TBOSCH.dnet.ge.com> writes:

>So how much of the Hersbrucker (a = 2.6) do i throw in the secondary? Is 
>there some rule-of-thumb for amount of malt (SG?), amount of bittering hops,
>and amount and/or alpha of the dryhop being used? Or is it as simple as
>just throw in 1oz at transfer to secondary?
>

Sean, I don't have any rules of thumb based on SG etc., but I will say 1 oz.
will overpower any brew I can think of.  Half that amount has proven to be on
the verge of "too much" for me in a few different brews (and I love hops!).
I'd start with about 1/3 oz. for full hop aroma.  Just MHO.

Norm

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Date: 11 Jun 92 17:00 GMT
From: JUEAL.S at AppleLink.Apple.COM (Jueal, Stacey)
Subject: Mountain View water *OPINION*

Geoff -
 
>Finally, why are you worried about Mountain View water? I brewed in Menlo<
>Park and the water was pretty good for brewing and great for drinking. Does<
>Mountain View get Santa Clara well water instead of Hech Hechy (sp) reservoir<
>water?
 
 
As a homebrewer who's located in Mountain View,CA, I'd like to share my
opinion.  Let me state first, I've never asked the water company for a report
on the water.  I *DO* know that I don't like the taste of the water that comes
out of the tap, so we get bottled water for drinking.  My partner and I use the
same bottled water for our beer.  The rationale -- if it doesn't taste good,
don't use it.  Works for us.  We get our bottled water at a local store(Pure
Water is the store name) for only $.25/gallon.  There's probably isn't any
safety hazard in using the tap water, we just choose not to!  Anyway there's my
two cents worth:-)!
 
Damn it Jim, I'm a homebrewer, not a scientist,
 
Sweetie(of the award winning homebrewing team of Slug & Sweetie)
 

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Date: 11 Jun 92 14:05:07 EDT (Thu)
From: GC Woods <gcw at garage.att.com>
Subject: Extra Stoudt's Festival Tickets

I have 3 maybe 4 extra tickets for the Stoudt's micro brewery Beer
Festival this Saturday (June 13). Anyone interested can contact me on
980-580-5641 during the day. I will not be in the office until around
2:00 pm and will respond to all calls or email then.
		
					Geoff Woods
					gcw at garage.att.com

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Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1992 15:22 EDT
From: GORDONSE at IRIS.UNCG.EDU
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #900 (June 11, 1992)

Could someone please let me know if there are lists similar to this
for wine?

Sharon

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Date: Thu, 11 Jun 92 15:34:39 EDT
From: perley at easygoer.crd.ge.com (Donald P Perley)
Subject: propane questions & esters from low lipids

>heat the sparge water.  My burner supplier (Solarflo) states a maximum input
>fuel rate of one gallon per hour.  This is supposedly regulated by a 10" water
>column pressure regulator (the manufacturer claimed this was about .5 psi).
>I have seen (and own) a backyard BBQ with a regulator rated at 11" water
>column pressure.  I assume these are not compatable, comments.  Also of

11 inches is close enough.

>concern is the ability of the regulator and couplings to supply 1 gal of
>propane per hour without freezing up.  I am trying to gather information
>on regulators and flo rates so I build the optimum setup.  Any info is
>appreciated.

1 gallon of propane = about 92,000 btu, I believe.  When my regulator for
the house froze up I temporarily substituted the one from a barbecue.  The
BBQ is 40,000 btu, and the regulator worked ok with the 60K drier, or the
range, but the flames started getting lower if I tried both.  From that I 
would guess that you won't be running full pressure with a barbecue regulator.
Of course, yours could be more overbuilt than the one I used.

 -don perley



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Date: Thu, 11 Jun 92 15:50:22 EDT
From: perley at easygoer.crd.ge.com (Donald P Perley)
Subject: An easier way of brewing?

>Basically, the main change was to start buying one of those 2.5
>gallon plastic water jugs.  I use the jug itself to ferment in,
>then I just get rid of the jug (my apartment recycling bins won't
>take it (only the 2 liter plastic bottles.  Are they recyclable?).

Look on the bottom and see if there is a number inside a triangle.  #2
(the most common for small water & milk jugs) is high density
polyethylene, which was the first thing they started recycling around
here. #1 is PETE, the kind used in soda bottles.

 -don perley


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Date: 11 Jun 92 15:44:00 PST
From: John Fitzgerald <johnf at ccgate.SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM>
Subject: soda kegs in HBD#898


In HBD#898 Dan Graham asked some questions about using soda kegs without 
pressure release valves.  [I would have responded to you directly Dan, but 
your email address is pretty ugly :) and I'm sure my mail program wouldn't be 
able to digest it.]

Two fellow homebrewers and I have been using soda kegs with and without the 
separate release valves that you are looking for. Don't worry, you don't have 
the wrong kinda of kegs!  The difference is in the lids, and lids with release 
valves are available (our homebrew shop sells them, but they are pricy, about 
$18-19 just for a new lid!).  We use both kinds of lids (acutally 3 kinds, one 
has what looks like a one-time pressure valve that would only open if the 
presure got too high, and then probably need replacing) interchangably, 
without much preference.  We always figured that the kegs are rated to 
withstand 130 psi, and our beer is not primed to come anywhere close to that.
If we are ever concerned about the internal pressure getting to high, the 
little valve in the top of the 2-pin stem always works to release a little CO2 
(unless the keg is very very full).  Note, it's the 3 pin stem that ususally 
goes to the feeder tube for the liquid, and thus results in the showers of 
brew/soda-syrup.

I hope this helps.

John Fitzgerald

BTW, the kegs also make great mini grain silos! We buy grain in bulk, and 
store it in a keg, pressurized with CO2.  So far it seems to keep pretty well.






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End of HOMEBREW Digest #901, 06/12/92