FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  belgian malts (Tony Babinec)
  Re:  Yellowing Hops (David Van Iderstine)
  Hop vine pruning and lagering refrigerator (Subbakrishna Shankar)
  Boston Area package stores (LEONH001)
  Test (Raymond Taylor)
  wort chillers (Glenn Anderson)
  Brewpubs in Colorado-New Mexico ("Robert Haddad" )
  Soda keg reference? (John Devenezia)
  Belle Vue Kriek LA (Phillip Seitz)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #923 (July 15, 1992) (Kip Damrow)
  Re: Why Wait for the Boil? (John DeCarlo)
  Where to get started? ("Stephen J. Vogelsang")
  Pins (KENYON)
  Dry hopping (Keith Winter)
  Northern CA and Southern OR Breweries and BrewPubs
  Please No More Offers! (Jeff Frane)
  All Grain is Expensive (NOT) (Glenn Tinseth)
  Cider and it's yeast  (Jay Hersh)
  Phil's Sparge (whg)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #925 (July 17, 1992) (Scott Weintraub)
  Cheap SS Brewpots, not merely shameless commercialism... ("CMD 2NDLT ALBERT W. TAYLOR ")
  Low alcohol beer (The Man Who Invented Himself)
  Sake' brewing...? (The Rider)
  adding body to mead (Michael Tighe)
  Stainless Steel Pot solution ? (Mark N. Davis)
  Dishwashers (Phillip Seitz)
  Re: thought you might be interested (Michael E. Costello)
  Beer to culture yeasts from (Arthur Delano)
  wort chiller help (Mr. Weather)
  THE WINNER-not (Jack Schmidling)
  Re: Lager vs Ale malts? (Larry Barello)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 92 10:33:45 CDT
From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec)
Subject: belgian malts

De Wolf-Cosyns Maltings is one of Belgium's oldest and largest
floor malting plants.  They supply many of Belgium's lambic brewers
along with more conventional breweries in Northern Europe.  Only
the finest European barley and wheat are used.  The barley (all
two-row) and wheat berries are larger than domestic malts.  The
dark grains are flavorful and not in the least harsh or astringent.

Here is a listing of the available malts along with color ratings:

Base Malts
pale ale           3.5 -   4.5L
pilsen             1.5 -   2
wheat              1.4 -   1.8

Color Malts
Munich             7   -   8
Aromatic          23   -  28

Caramel Malts
Caramel-Pils       5   -  10
Caravienne        15   -  30
CaraMunich        70   -  80
Special B        150   - 250

Roasted Malts
Biscuit           23   -  33
Chocolate        450   - 550
Black Malt       700   - 800
Roasted Barley   700   - 800

Here are some comments on the malts.  Note that Pierre Rajotte's
Belgian Ale book mentions some of these.  The color ratings given
above differ a bit from those in Rajotte's book, but the ones
listed above are from the supplier.

The pilsner malt rivals the finest pilsner malt available.  It
should be used instead of U.S 2-row or 6-row for such styles as
Trippels, wit beers, and various Specials.  Note that George Fix's
Vienna book also argued that Pilsner malt should be the base malt
for the Vienna-Marzen-Fest style.  You might also use it in your
best Pilsner.

The Munich and Aromatic malts provide malt aroma, body, and color. 
The Aromatic is slightly darker than a dark Munich, and its name
says it all so far as aroma and taste are concerned.

The CaraPils (not to be confused with American Cara-Pils!),
CaraVienne, and CaraMunich are basically very fine crystal malts
comparable to 10L, 30L, and 80L crystal malts you might use.  The
Special B is a highly colored caramel malt that, in Rajotte's
words, "...Gives a rich caramel-malt taste.  It is used in Scotch
ales and stouts brewed under license in Belgium.  Darker Specials
and Abbey beers at times use this type of caramel malt.  Its effect
is noticeable in beers, giving lots of additional body and
coloring.  Beers using Special B have more well-rounded malt
character than beers colored with only candi sugar."  Again, George
Fix in his Vienna book argues for using the finest crystal malts to
avoid astringency in the beer, especially for that style.

At homebrew club meetings, those of us in the Chicago Beer Society
have been able to sample these malts, as the local Siebel
Institute's retail branch had them.  NOTE, however, that Siebel
Institute is not a supplier of these malts.  Moreover, the Siebel
Institute exists to serve commercial brewing and not the
homebrewing community.  I know of a number of suppliers of the
grains.  Standard disclaimer here:  I have no commercial interest,
but figured that those whose appetites are whetted would want to
know where to get the grains!  I don't know prices, so call the
establishment.

 - Tim Norris, Chicago, IL 312-545-4004--Tim runs a basement
homebrew shop.  He suggests that homebrew clubs get a collective
order together, but is willing to ship small orders.

 - North Brewery Supplies, Franklin, WI 414-761-1018--Brian North
runs a basement homebrew shop located between Milwaukee and
Kenosha.  For those of you thinking of getting into kegging, Brian
has all sorts of stuff, and can service and refurbish equipment.
Call from 6-9 pm his time.

 - Alternative Beverage, Streamwood, IL--Don't have their phone
number, but their ad is in Zymurgy.  Owner Dave Itel (Ittel?) runs
a very complete homebrew and gardening shop.  As of this writing,
they either have the grains or will be getting them shortly.

 - Great Fermentations of Santa Rosa:  I don't have their catalog
with me, but I recall seeing some of the Belgian malts mentioned. 

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 16 Jul 92 12:18:09 EDT
From: localhost!davevi at uunet.UU.NET (David Van Iderstine)
Subject: Re:  Yellowing Hops

Hops are subject to "wilt", a disease that spreads from the ground up. I
ordered and planted Cascades from Freshops in Oregon, and they recommended
training the hops straight up for at least 6' before going horizontal, and
then (when the vines are leafy enough) removing all the leaves between 6'
and ground. This will prevent the wilt from spreading upward. For the first
year, though, the plants are not really energetic enough to grow that fast
or large quickly enough, so I've been plucking the leaves as they show
symptoms. Next year, the plants will have a more extensive root system,
and will grow quickly enough to "escape" the wilt. 

Oh, they also recommended, after the first year, to prune the first growth
off, in favor of "more hardy" second growth.

Dave Van Iderstine


===========================================================================
== Dave Van Iderstine                           Senior Software Engineer ==
==                   Xerox Imaging Systems, Inc.                         ==
== UUCP: uunet!pharlap!orgasm!davevi        davevi at pharlap.com :INTERNET ==
==-----------------------------------------------------------------------==
== "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate." ==
===========================================================================


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Date: Thu, 16 Jul 92 13:28:58 -0400
From: sxs32 at po.CWRU.Edu (Subbakrishna Shankar)
Subject: Hop vine pruning and lagering refrigerator


	Congratulations, Jack.  You certainly stirred up interest in HBD
during the summer doldrums.

	A few weeks ago I was complaining here that my hop rhizomes weren't
growing, so naturally they are now growing all too well.  I have assiduously
pruned back new shoots after letting 2 or 3 climb on twine, and now there
are 3-5 ft vines from each rhizome.  At the junction of each leaf pair with
vine, however, there are new shoots orthogonal to the leaves.  Since these
shoots develop leaves, etc., and appeared to be new vines I have been nipping
them in the bud, so to speak.  It just dawned on me that these might be the
beginnings of flower cones, so I'm "shooting" myself in the foot.  In
pictures that I've seen of flowering hops, though, I've never seen leaves
on the "burrs" that go from the vine to flowers.  Any thoughts from
experienced hop growers?  Anyone with a climate similar to Cleveland
getting flowers already?

	I have been contemplating getting a cheap fridge and a Hunter
Airstat for both lagering and an eventual kegging setup.  I recently saw
someone suggest a chest type freezer instead of an upright fridge.  I am
concerned, however, that getting 5 gal of beer in and out or an chest type
unit will be difficult, and that the height of the chest will not be
sufficient. Any experience?  

Thanks in advance.


- --
Subba Shankar
E-mail: sxs32 at po.cwru.edu (Internet)    U.S. Snail: Dept. of Neurosciences
Voice:  (216)368-2195                               Case Western Reserve U.
FAX:    (216)368-4650                               Cleveland, OH 44106

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Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1992 14:16 EDT
From: LEONH001 at mc.duke.edu
Subject: Boston Area package stores

Hi,
  I have a friend who will be visiting the South Shore Boston area
soon and asked me to find out if there are any good package stores in
that area.  He specifically does not want to drive into Boston (yes,
he KNOWS what he will be missing!) He is looking for a good selection
of beers to bring back home with him.
  Thanks!                    Dave in Durham, NC

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Date:         Thu, 16 Jul 92 13:08:03 CDT
From: Raymond Taylor <NU028463 at VM1.NoDak.EDU>
Subject:      Test

Hello,

This is a test to see if I can post items to HBD from my location.

This is also my shot at the MALTMILL!

I enjoy reading the digest.

"Liberty" TAYLOR

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Date: 	Wed, 15 Jul 1992 20:00:00 -0400
From: Glenn Anderson <glenn.anderson at canrem.com>
Subject: wort chillers



I've recently manufactured a counterflow wort chiller out of garden
hose and copper tube. It works great, with one exception. After it has
sat between batches it seems to develop a sort of light blue flakey
substance inside the copper tubing, requiring quite a bit of
flushing before all is removed. Does anyone have any idea what this is
or if it is harmful to me or the beer. It would seem to me that there
must still be microscopic quantities of the material entering the wort
and ultimately my belly.
- --
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044

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Date:     16 Jul 92 16:49:36 EDT
From: "Robert Haddad" <RHADDAD at bss1.umd.edu>
Subject:  Brewpubs in Colorado-New Mexico

I am getting ready for a camping trip through, MI, IL, NE, CO and NM.
I'd very much appreciate information on local brepubs/microbreweries.

While this is the first time I post such a request, I've seen
many similar requests over the months by fellow travelers. Perhaps we
should start putting together an updated list of these
establishements.

Any suggestions?

Robert Haddad



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Date: Thu, 16 Jul 92 16:49:17 -0500
From: devenzia at euler.jsc.nasa.gov (John Devenezia)
Subject: Soda keg reference?



I have just come into possesion of 5 old coca-cola kegs (3 bucks
a pop from the scrap metal yard).  I know much has been written 
in the digests about the use of these kegs but alas I just skimmed
them (not having a keg of my own). I was hoping someone might
have a reference or compendium of advice on the refit and use
of the soda keg.  I still need to acquire the CO2 system and the
dispensing equipment, does anyone know of cheap source for these?

Many thanks

John (one day won't have to cap no more) D.


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Date: Fri, 17 Jul 92 01:14 GMT
From: Phillip Seitz <0004531571 at mcimail.com>
Subject: Belle Vue Kriek LA

I live in the Washington, D.C. area, where the weather is beastly hot at 
the moment, and often sickeningly humid.  I'm also a passionate Belgian
beer fan, but even a dose of air conditioning is not enough to get me in
the right frame of mind to tackle one of the beers in the fridge, most 
of which weigh in at at least 8% alchohol.
	Recently a group of Belgian friends blew through town, and brought
me a CARE package of beers and chocolate.  Among these was a Belle Vue
Kriek LA.  Kriek means cherry beer, and LA means low alchohol.  The beer
is 1.5% by volume, ranking it in the Belgian category III, for table beers.
	At first look it seemed to me that this was just the kind of beers
that would be dreamed up by the boys down the hall in marketing--the next
great thing after dry beer!  (More filling, less taste!)  This doubt
was not assuaged by the fact that Belle Vue is owned by that slimy Belgian
octopus, Interbrew.
	In fact, it was surprising how not bad it was.  Rich red cherry
color, but not fluorescent.  Excellent head.  A slightly sweet taste
(a Belle Vue trademark).  Not terribly complex, but very pleasant.  What
was lacking was a bit of tartness, which I overcame by the oral application
of some dark chocolate esters (and a very good match it was).
	So, the boys in marketing win one.  The stuff was pleasant to 
drink, left no fog on the brain, and--HOLY COW--had taste!  What a concept!
This has been the universal problem with all the low-alchohol beers I've
ever run into, and has indirectly sharpened my interest in gin (why drink
beer when all that's available is Sharps and Coors?).
	In fact, I'd even be willing to buy the stuff again, if it didn't
come from t\ose Interbrew slime-balls.  But the issue is this--why not
add some flavor?  Why not have low alchohol beer, when it can be satisfying?
As advocates of responsible drinking, I think this is the sort of thing
we could definitely use more of.

On a vaguely related topic, I mentioned to our Belgian visitors my interest
in Pierre Rajotte's new book on Belgian brewing, and the difficulty of
getting candy sugar for brewing.  Rajotte states that it's available from
brewery suppliers in 50 pound bags.  I mean, I'm ambitious enough, but that's
a lot of sugar to schlep around.  Anyway, our guests said that the stuff is
available almost everywhere--supermarkets, etc.--in both the light and
dark varieties.  I'm trying to get some via our next courier (end of Aug.),
and will post any news on this front.

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Date: Thu, 16 Jul 92 22:02:26 PDT
From: damrowk at Thomas.COM (Kip Damrow)
Subject: Re:  Homebrew Digest #923 (July 15, 1992)

When in the neighborhood of Appleton Wi., visit the Appleton Brewing Co. Home of Adler Brau.
The Amber won a gold medal at the Great American Beer Fest. Other verieties of Adler Brau also
won medals. Tell John (owner/brewmaster) that Kip sent you. Enjoy...
Kip Damrow
Fullerton, California

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Date: Friday, 17 Jul 1992 08:56:10 EDT
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re: Why Wait for the Boil?

>From: tpm%wdl58 at wdl1.wdl.loral.com (Tim P McNerney)

>Why do most sources suggest adding the malt extract once the
>water has started boiling?  Is there any advantage to adding it
>then?  I did so last time, but was a bit slow with the stirring
>and ended up with quite a mess from burnt extract and would much
>rather add the extract when the water is warm.

OK, here is my understanding--others will correct me where I am
wrong <g>.

1) The warmer the water, the easier it is to dissolve the
   extract.
2) The extract will burn if it sits on the bottom of the pot
   while there is high heat being applied.

Therefore, you want to stir the extract into very warm water not
on the heat.  That is why the advice is to get the water boiling
(it won't get any hotter than that), take it off the heat, stir
in the extract (previously warmed up), put it back on the heat
when it is all stirred up (no more sitting on the bottom of the
pot).

With a flame, just turn off the flame.  With an electric heating
element, you have to lift the pot off the hot element until no
more extract is on the bottom of the pot.



Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1992 11:16:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Stephen J. Vogelsang" <sv0k+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Where to get started?

Hi all,
    I am new to this beer brewing stuff, and would like some tips on how
to get started.  Any info would be helpful.  What equipment I need,
where to get grains and other ingredients, how to store the beer, etc. 
If you can direct me to a good publication on the subject that would be
great.  If you happen to be in the Pittsburgh area and can lead me to
sources for ingredients and equipment, that would be most appreciated. 
I don't know whether it matters, but I would like to brew some stouts
and porters (just because I seem to like these type of beer in general).
 I know absolutely nothing about the process of brewing beer other than
the fact that you have some grains and some yeast, so keep any info on a
beginners level.

Thanks,
    Steve


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Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1992 11:10 EDT
From: KENYON%1235%erevax.BITNET at pucc.Princeton.EDU
Subject: Pins


Yet another way to remember which keg fitting (2 or 3
pin) goes with the gas in or liquid out is that the word
"IN" has 2 letters and the word "OUT" has 3!

 -Chuck-

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Date: Fri, 17 Jul 92 8:52:52 PDT
From: winter at cirrus.com (Keith Winter)
Subject: Dry hopping


OK, I'm going to take the plunge with this batch and try dry hopping.  I'm
not sure if I've seen this particular question discussed before:

I'm pretty sure about the quantity of hops I want to use but I'm not sure
about how long to leave them in.  I usually secondary for about two weeks
with most of my brews.  Is this long enough/too long if I dry hop in the
secondary?  

HBD wisdom would be much appreciated.

RDWHAHB,

	Keith Winter

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Date: Fri, 17 Jul 92 08:03 PDT
From: Al Marshall <alm at brewery.intel.com>

To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Subject: Northern CA and Southern OR Breweries and BrewPubs


I'm traveling from Portland OR to San Francisco in early October and
would appreciate some information on any breweries and brewpubs that 
are must-sees along the way.  In advance, note that I already plan to stop at:

	* Deschutes (Bend OR)
	* Terri Fahrendorf's <insert name of brewpub here> (Eugene OR)
	* Sierra Nevada (Chico CA)
	* Anchor (SF CA) (For a repeat visit... the nirvana of craft brewing.)


I've already been to, and will probably pass by:

	* Pizza Deli and Brewpub (Cave Junction OR)
	* Rogue Brewery (Ashland, OR)

In particular, what in the bay area is beer-related and really worth visiting
besides Anchor?


Thanks in advance...


Al Marshall

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Date: Fri, 17 Jul 92 10:26:13 PDT
From: gummitch at techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Please No More Offers!

Jack et al:

Please, Jack, I'm sure your heart was in the right place, but... the key
to a good, interesting Digest is not quantity, but quality.  The reason
that certain issues of the Digest are interesting is because the people
who are contributing are _involved_ in the discussion.  This may keep
the volume down (which, admit it, makes it easier to read through the
Digest in a reasonable period), but it also keeps the discussion lively
and current.  Right now, I've been waiting for three days for my
response to someone to be posted -- and the Digest has been filled with
people who are posting comments purely to enter the maltmill lottery.

I can't see what good this is doing, particularly if these people -- who
have previously been silent here -- go back to reading and never
contributing.

So, Jack, please if you want to give away malt mills, do so, but don't
tell anyone that's what you're planning.  Let people contribute to the
Digest because they have something to say, and allow the normal
day-to-day fluctuations in volume to continue.  That way people can get
back to asking questions and getting responses in a day or two, rather
than in a week.  And I, for one, can stop reading endless postings of
"Did I win?"

- --Jeff



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Date: Fri, 17 Jul 92 12:00:23 PDT
From: tinsethg at ucs.orst.edu (Glenn Tinseth)
Subject: All Grain is Expensive (NOT)

I hear this sentiment about all grain brewing often--it's expensive. I will
summarize what I spent and let you judge for yourself. I used Dave Miller's
book for a reference. Here goes.
 
 	Boiling kettle: 33 qt enamelware		$30  
 	Mash tun: 20 qt enamel ware			$15
 	Lauter tun: 2-5 gal plastic buckets		$ 3 each
 		    plastic spigot			$ 4
 		    "ensolite" pad (insulation)		$ 5  
 	Box for mash tun: 4' x 4' x 1/4" plywood	$ 7
 			  spray-in insulation		$ 4 
 	Corona mill					$13 (Goodwill)
 	Pulleys and motor for corona (I'm lazy)		$10 (ditto)
 						       ----
 							$91
 
I save between $5 and $15 on each 5 gal batch(I buy grain in bulk). I
have made 30 batches with this equipment and couldn't be happier. I use a 60
qt camp cooler for holding my hot sparge water and do a gravity feed with the
cooler up high, the lauter tun in the middle and boiler down low. BTW the way,
beers made with this equip *have* done well in competitions. The only reason
I'll change is to get bigger, i.e. 1/2 barrel size. 
 
Cheers,
 
Glenn Tinseth
tinsethg at ucs.orst.edu	

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Date: Fri, 17 Jul 92 16:05:41 EDT
From: Jay Hersh <hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu>
Subject: Cider and it's yeast 



Sorry for the delayed reply...
In HBD #921 Andy Phillips commented:

>The traditional way of making 
farmhouse (ie. homebrew) cider is simply to crush apples, press out
the juice and allow it to ferment without any additions, even yeast.
Fermentation relies on infection by wild yeasts from the air. You
could try this, but I wouldn't recommend it - there is no guarantee 
that a suitable wild yeast will fall from the heavens, and there will
be plenty of other bugs waiting their chance to turn your apple juice
into cider vinegar.


	Well this is slightly misleading Andy. The source of the 
	wild yeasts is not waiting to drop from the heavens. It is
	already right there on the apples at crushing time. Right
	around the stem on almoist all apples is a yellowish, powdery
	substance, referred to by growers as the "bloom". This is
	wild yeasts which collect on the apples, from the air, and
	from insects (i.e. bees) which are responsible for the flowers
	pollination to begin with. 

	They are not just random yeasts. They live in orchards because
	they ferment fruit sugars well and are able to propagate there.
	I too was skeptical at first, but Paul Correnty (Resident NE
	Cider guru) convinced me to try a ferment with only the yeasts
	present in the pressed cider itself. It is truly wonderful!!
	(and it just got edged out for 3rd place in the AHA National
	by my buddy Bob Gorman.... :-( ).

	So while exposing your cider to air is not recommended, it
	is quite possible to make very good cider with the wild yeasts
	that occur naturaaly on the apples, and thus in the pressed cider.
	One does however have to have a little more patience perhaps, 
	as these yeasts are slower to start, and like a long fermentation
	and aging period. Also fortification prior to fermentation is 
	recommended as they are very voracious fermenters....


	JaH
	Cider Digest Coordinator (cider-request@ expo.lcs.mit.edu)

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Date: Fri, 17 Jul 92 12:15:00 CDT
From: whg at tellabs.com
Subject: Phil's Sparge


A few days ago I posted a description of my partial mash techniques and
a query about commerially available sparging systems (Phil's being one).
After this post I didn't recieve the HBD's for a few days. This was the
end of last week when Rob explained out the postings swamping his 
programs.  So, I don't know if this post was lost to the world, is
still in the queue or got posted and I missed it and any responses
due to my lose of the HBD for a few days.

Did anybody see this post?  Can anyone comment on Phil's (or the likes)
sparging system?   I'm thinking it may be wise to start with a pre-made
sparge system and then modify and/or replace it as I become more adept.

If my original post comes through after I send this off, my apologies for
waste of bandwidth.


Walter Gude    ||   whg at tellabs.com


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Date: Fri, 17 Jul 92 17:09:12 EST
From: sfw at trionix.com (Scott Weintraub)
Subject: Re:  Homebrew Digest #925 (July 17, 1992)

Assuming I don't win the MALTMILL that appears to be being given away, how much
does one cost?

- --Scott Weintraub
  TRIONIX

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Date: 17 Jul 92 17:05:00 EST
From: "CMD 2NDLT ALBERT W. TAYLOR " <S94TAYLOR at usuhsb.ucc.usuhs.nnmc.navy.mil>
Subject: Cheap SS Brewpots, not merely shameless commercialism...

The question was asked recently about where one could find cheap SS pots.
In Zymurgy, Summer 92, I found an ad from The Brewery from Potsdam, NY.  They
are selling a 5 gallon Brew Pot (18 Guage), w/ lid for only $25.  This
price is only good through 31 July, 1992.  You can order by phone at 
1 (89

1 (800) 762-2560.  They accept MC/Visa/Discover.  I don't own any stock or
anything, it's just the best price I've ever seen.  Give them a call!
Al Taylor


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Date: Fri, 17 Jul 92 14:58:47 PDT
From: The Man Who Invented Himself <stewarte at sco.COM>
Subject: Low alcohol beer

>From: Chuck Coronella <CORONELLRJDS at CHE.UTAH.EDU>

>[...] out of curiosity (I am a chemical engineer, after all) what
>is the process that Anheuser, Miller, Coors, etc. use to make Cutter et al.?

>Do they use a "genetically altered" yeast, which is able to eat maltose and
>produce CO2 without producing EtOH?  (I really have a hard time believing
>this one.)  Do they use vacuum distillation?  

According to an article I read recently (in the Food section of the
San Jose Mercury News, but it may have been reprinted from somewhere
else), there are two methods used commercially.  One of them was a
vacuum distillation process.  The other did involve a special strain
of yeast -- not one that didn't produce alcohol, but one that basically
didn't ferment very much at all.  The article didn't go into much more
detail -- presumably this would mean that they start with an extremely
low initial gravity, and perhaps add carbonation?  I'm not sure.

- -- Stewart


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Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1992 15:40:33 -0800
From: mfetzer at ucsd.edu (The Rider)
Subject: Sake' brewing...?

Well, I've been challenged to brew a decent batch of Sake' and have to
admit I know nothing about it. Some time ago someone mentioned that a
fungus is responsible for converting the starch in the rice?

Would any and all sake' brewing experts, novices, or wannabe's point me in
the right direction?

Mike

- --
Michael Fetzer
Internet:      mfetzer at ucsd.edu        uucp:           ...!ucsd!mfetzer
Bitnet:        FETZERM at SDSC            
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Date: Fri, 17 Jul 92 11:27:17 EDT
From: tighe at kc.camb.inmet.com (Michael Tighe)
Subject: adding body to mead

>>> How can one add "body" to a quick mead?  

>> In my experience, adding more honey ... helps make the flavor more "real".

> Adding more honey won't necessarily work. Honey is very fermentable.
> That means that you end up with very few unfermentable sugars left 
> when it is done. Doubling the amount of honey used will double the
> unfermentable sugars but will that really make a difference? 

I think that my answer of adding more honey was not targetted at the
actual question asked by the original poster.  In my experience, adding 
more honey can help make the mead "better".  If one makes a quick-mead, 
where one bottles before the primary fermentation finishes (my usual 
practice), one gets significant unfermented sugar left, and this adds 
significant flavor and "richness" to the mead.  As commented above, this
does lead to glass grenades if the bottles are not refrigerated relatively
quickly.  I have heard one tale (on this forum, I think) of a recipe for
mead that has you open a bottle a week until the pressure in each succeeding
bottle "scares you".  Then, hold a party immediately and drink off the
entire batch.

In my experience, the choice of honey adds richness to the taste and
experience, because of the source of the sugars (nectar).  Molasses
honey, buckwheat honey, orange blossom honey, "raw wildflower honey",
all add unique flavors and texture to the taste of the drink, as
does the choice of spices.  One friend of mine added a pound of crushed
ginger to every gallon of his batch of "quick mead" (two pounds of
honey per gallon) and ginger lovers in our group thought it was
wonderful!  They called it "death by ginger".

Now, if you mean "thickness" when you say "body" (i.e., the way that a 
liqueur has a very viscous flow), then you really would have to add a
lot of honey to exceed the capabilities of the yeast to consume it and
make alcohol.  I've seen mead like this only once, a long time ago, and
I thought it was wonderful!  It was over two years in the making, and
the amount of it was very limitted.  Someday I'll have the patience to
try that recipe!

May your bottles never burst!

Michael Tighe, Intermetrics, Inc.,  Cambridge, MA 02138 (USA)
email: tighe at inmet.camb.inmet.com,  phone: 617-661-1840

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Date: Fri, 17 Jul 92 17:38:15 PDT
From: Mark N. Davis <mndavis at pbhya.PacBell.COM>
Subject: Stainless Steel Pot solution ?


Steve sez:

> I am looking for a source for a large, stainless brewpot to use for a full
> boil.  What size do most people use, 8-10 gallon?  I know I could find
> something at a restaurant supply store but it would probably cost over $100.
> I think I have read here that some people have used old kegs with the top
> cut off.  Is this true?  What kind of kegs are they?  Anybody have any other
> ideas for brewpots?  It doesn't have to be pretty but cheap would be nice.

I have heard of an interesting solution. Find an old water heater and make sure
that it is stainless steel lined, which is supposedly fairly common. Then you
simply saw it off at what ever level you prefer, giving you a boiling pot up
to maybe 40 gallon capacity. The beauty of this is that the unit comes complete
with a nice stand and best yet - a built in burner! Just hook this puppy up
to a gas line (refrain from ingesting home brews previous to this part) and 
fire it up. One other addition that you might need is to add a drain spigot
if the model that you have doesn't already have one. Overall, this is a rather
inexpensive (assuming you find a junker water heater that will work), and not
overly difficult project to create for yourself.
Disclaimer: I've never actually seen one of these in use...

                              Lager daze,
                                Mark


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Date: Sat, 18 Jul 92 02:11 GMT
From: Phillip Seitz <0004531571 at mcimail.com>
Subject: Dishwashers

Several issues back (sorry, I lost my files), reference was made to the
similarity between dry dishwasher detergent and B-Brite, the difference
being that dishwasher detergent has additional chlorine.

At the moment I use heat to sanitize my bottles (actually, I bake them),
and have avoided using the dishwasher for this purpose because the water
does not reach the required temperature of 170 F.  Given the above 
information about the detergent, does this mean that using the dishwasher
is an effective way to sanitize bottles?

Also: am I being unreasonably touchy if I say that I am sick to death of
messages about maltmills?  I am assuming this giveaway is responsible for
the current glut of submissions (which delayed delivery of HBD on several
occasions, thereby bringing me to the brink of suicide. . .)

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Date: Sat, 18 Jul 92 20:21:54 GMT
From: stx!costello at world.std.com (Michael E. Costello)
Subject: Re: thought you might be interested


In Regards to your letter <D2150032.izichu at sylsoft.com>:
|  ps count me in for mac world, if i haven't said it already. let me
|  know what you want me to do.
|  ========================================

KQED is indeed the station...

As for Expo, ideally you could do one day and then either setup or teardown.
If so, we can certainly do a ticket. Unfortunately, our next Expo meeting
(which I absolutely cannot miss), is Tubestock day.


         .......................................................
         Michael E. Costello is Executive Director of the Boston
         Computer Society Macintosh User Group (BCS*Mac). He can
         be reached at costello at world.std.com or (617) 631-8188.

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Date: Sun, 19 Jul 92 14:28:59 EDT
From: Arthur Delano <ajd at itl.itd.umich.edu>
Subject: Beer to culture yeasts from


I would like to brew a pale ale, and am considering culturing yeasts
from another beer for it.  The obvious source for good, fresh yeast
would be Sierra Nevada PA, but the problem is that it is not available
for sale in Michigan.*  So I would like to know if there are any other
beers available which would be good sources for yeast.  Does Bell's
from Kalamazoo have yeast in the bottle (it's been too long since i've
had some)?

AjD
* The reason given to me by a local package store operator is that
Sierra Nevada has applied to the state's LCB three times and failed
each time.  He didn't know why.

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Date:    Mon, 20 Jul 1992 0:01:31 -0500 (CDT)
From: RKB6116 at SIGMA.TAMU.EDU (Mr. Weather)
Subject: wort chiller help

What is generally excepted as the best length and diameter of copper
tubing for a wort chiller?  (NON-counterflow type)

Email replies directly to me.

thanks in advance

Ken Blair

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Date: Sun, 19 Jul 92 21:45 CDT
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: THE WINNER-not

 
 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling
 
 It appeared that I did something right for a change.  Instead of announcing  
 the winner,  I with held till someone confirmed it and it seems that I fell 
 into the same trap that a number of others had.
 
 I will still refrain from making any announcement till I receive a concensus 
 from a few others.  For some reason Rob refuses to count so I need some help.
 I have Ed Bronson's post but have no way of verifying it as I only saved the 
 indices.  Please send email, if you have a pick.
 
 >From: Joe Rolfe <jdr at wang.com>
 >Subject: CLEAR BEER
 
 >1) isinglass.........
 
 You seem to have left out of your experiments, the simplest, cheapest and 
 most reliable clearing agent... gelatine.  1/2 tsp per 5 gal will clear the
 muckiest beer in a couple of days.
 
 I don't use it very often but I did use it on the Generic Ale I took to 
 Milwaukee so the World's Greatest Beer would at least be clear.
 
 >From: popowich at ssc.wisc.edu
 >Subject: Re: ROOTBEER
 
 >Thanks to Russell for his explanation of the dangers of root beer.  I
 will certainly be careful IF I EVER FIND A RECIPE!!!.  I'm so
 surprised by the silence over getting a recipe.  Besides Russell's
 message I have only received responses along this line:
 
 Can't help you on the rootbeer.  I suggest you give up because the process to 
 "clean up" natural root is beyond the home brewers' bag of tricks.  Certainly 
 testing it to prove it is "safe" is.
 
 I switched to ginger ale and convinced my self I like it as well.  We show 
 how to make it from scratch in our video but it is really quite simple.
 
 Slice up and boil one oz ginger root for 20 min.  Whiz in blender and pour 
 through strainer into gallon of boiling water with one cup of sugar.  Ad one 
 tsp vanilla and 1/8 tsp of dry yeast after cool.  Put in 4 plastic liter 
 bottles and refrigerate when hard. 
 
 >From: Chuck Coronella <CORONELLRJDS at CHE.UTAH.EDU>
 >Subject: Low alcohol beer  (oh no, not again!)
 
 >Other than antagonizing everyone, we concluded that JS's method of
 heating a fermented beer might/might not work.
 
 Just for the record, according to Jean Hunter's gas chromatograph, the sample 
 I sent was 1.36% alcohol.  Increasing the holding time or temp could no doubt 
 get the number lower but this seems low enough that is does not trigger my 
 urge to drink till the keg is empty and the flavor is only marginally 
 changed.
 
 >Do they use a "genetically altered" yeast, which is able to eat maltose and
 produce CO2 without producing EtOH?  (I really have a hard time believing
 this one.) 
 
 Don't know that it is genetically altered but they definitely use yeast that 
 produces less alcohol but that is about the extent of my knowledge.
 
 I would think that a simple expedient would be simply to use less sugar/malt 
 in the brew to begin with.  Judging by what that rubbish tastes like, they do 
 not need any magic yeast.
 
 >From: HAPANOWICZ at bigvax.alfred.edu
 >Subject: A call for a mead addict!
 
  > I have two cases of still mead that was made a year ago.  The mead tastes
 a lot like port wine.  This mead is really not to my taste but I'm sure
 that someone would enjoy it.   Is anyone interested in tradeing a bottle of
 their mead for two bottles of mine? 
 
 I like port wine a lot.  
 
 Would you settle for a bottle of this year's dandelion wine?  It tastes a lot 
 like dandelion wine, aka Nail Soup, aka raisin/sugar/lemon wine with 
 dandelions in it.
 
 >From: "B_HADLEY" <BHADLEY at atlas.nafb.trw.com>
 >Subject: What is maltmill?
 
 >Can some describe a maltmill? Is it a mashing machine?
  
 
 I suppose I am getting suckered again but I will assume this is a sincere 
 question.
 
 Malted barley must be crushed before it can be properly mashed.  There are 
 many ways of doing this including, rolling pins, kitchen blenders, grain 
 grinders and roller mills.  Only the latter is designed for the task and does 
 the proper job.
 
 Although the efficiency of sugar extraction improves as the particle size 
 decreases, the major flaw that grinders, cutters and blenders have is that 
 they also pulverize the husk of the grain.   The mashing process, depends on 
 the intact husks to provide the needed filter bed when sparging the mashed 
 grain.  If the husks are pulverized, there is no filtering and impossibly 
 turbid wort results in addtion to the fact that the husks will end up in the 
 boil.
 
 Roller mills, squeeze the grain between sets of rollers and only crush the 
 grain enough to release the malt so that it can be reached by the mashing 
 water.  The husk is left intact.
 
 Until very recently, there was no ROLLER mill available to the home brewer.
 
 js

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Date: Sun, 19 Jul 92 23:06:36 PDT
From: polstra!larryba at uunet.UU.NET (Larry Barello)
Subject: Re: Lager vs Ale malts?

In HBD #924 Brian Bliss writes:
>...
>Oatmeal and steel-cut oats do not contain amylase enzyme, which is
>necessary to convert the starchy oats into sugars.  Lager malt
>is a good source of amylase, or you can add diastatic malt syrup
>...
It is interesting the notion of a "lager" malt.  Now I have no
doubt that there is such a grain out there, but I believe that the
realities of modern brewing make lager malt archaic.  Let me explain.

I have heard, and claimed that most US lager malts are in fact
fully modified and can be mashed with a single step infusion.  I have
also hear that most German brewers are now using single step infusion
mashing.  

Last weekend, at the Oregon Brewers Festival, I had a long discussion
with some maltsters from Great Western Malting (GWM) regarding their
Pale Malt.  This stuff is a 2-Row blend of fully modified malt.  The 
reason it is fully modified is to MAXIMIZE the enzyme content - needed
for the high adjunct ratios in Bud, etc. beers.  It is blended to
produce a highly consistent product.  The big boys simply demand that.
This is the same base malt used by many west coast microbrewers.  It
is also the same malt that many, erroneously, call Klages.  yes, there
is klages in it, but ther eis also Harrington, Crystal and some other
names I now forget.  If your malt supplier has Huge Baird malts, their
"klages" malt is most likely the GWM pale malt as GWM distributes HB
specialties.  

The bottom line is that step mashing is probably a quaint practice that
is a hangover from big commercial breweries that use lots of rice and
corn (where step mashing is still needed).  For most practical purposes,
using all malt recipes with US and european malts single step infusion
mashing is adequate and sufficient and won't produce chill haze.  
I forgot to ask them about their 6-row stuff, but I believe the same 
story holds as members of the Brews Brothers of Seattle have reported
single step infusion mashing of 6-Row working out just fine.

So, anyone else out there given up step mashing when doing all malt
recipes and been satisfied with the results?  Anyone else have any
evidence to support or debunk my claims, above?

I look forward to hearing from Y'all.

Cheers!

 - Larry Barello

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #928, 07/20/92