FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Correction: Re: Mashing oats (HBD 927) (Andy Phillips)
  Re: adjusting specific gravity (Steve Piatz)
  Dishwashers and Sanitation (John DeCarlo)
  Mead Yeast Nutrients (John DeCarlo)
  Trub, Windsor English Ale Yeast ("Rick Ringel - HNS/DCN project")
  Brewpubs, microbreweries, and supplies in New England. (MORGAN)
  blue stuff on wort chiller (mcnally)
  Re: Bay Area Bottled Beers (Greg Winters)
  Kegging Questions (hurls)
  Re: Lager vs Ale malts? (Jeff Benjamin)
  Cranberry Ale (gkushmer)
  Colorado Brewers Festival (Rick Myers)
  lactobacillus culture (lg562)
  Yeast for a barleywine (recommendations please)? (Tom Bower)
  Missing HBD#921 (Rob Bradley)
  Re: Coffee Stout (Richard Stueven)
  Mailing beer (humor) (whg)
  Old Bay Special Amber Beer Festival (GC Woods)
  Re: Wanted: Oatmeal Stout Recipe (Chris Shenton)
  mashing wheat malt (James Dipalma)
  Correcting Jack, Jockey Box, Heavy Metal, Texas Brewpubs, hop drying (Jay Hersh)
  Re: dryhopping (korz)
  Re: beer and Dogs?  (Kurt Wiseman)
  Beer yeast and dogs (Lynn Gold)
  Bottles For Sale, Cheap (rdg)
  Kegs, Thermostats, Jocky Boxes  Trub (Jack Schmidling)
  Oatmeal Stout recipe (Larry Barello)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 8:47 GMT
From: Andy Phillips <PHILLIPSA at LARS.AFRC.AC.UK>
Subject: Correction: Re: Mashing oats (HBD 927)

Oops. When I said "the amount of amylase produced [by oats]
may be less in barley", I meant "the amount of amylase
produced may be less _than_ in barley....."

Sorry for any confusion.

Andy

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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 08:40:14 CDT
From: piatz at fig.cray.com (Steve Piatz)
Subject: Re: adjusting specific gravity


in HOMEBREW Digest #926

>From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
>Subject: Malt, Correction, Kegs

> >From: piatz at fig.cray.com (Steve Piatz)
> >Subject: Adjusting specific gravity
>
> How often, I have wanted such info, primarily in winemaking.  You have,
> indeed done us a service.
>
> Just for the record....
>
> > Dilution By   50%
>
> Is taken to mean... adding 5 gals to a ten gallon batch or adding 10 gallons
> to a 10 gal batch?
>

50% is adding 5 gallons to a 10 gallon batch (increasing H2O by 50%)

Steve Piatz		piatz at cray.com



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Date: Monday, 20 Jul 1992 09:41:13 EDT
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Dishwashers and Sanitation

Philip Seitz writes:

>At the moment I use heat to sanitize my bottles (actually, I
>bake them), and have avoided using the dishwasher for this
>purpose because the water does not reach the required
>temperature of 170 F.  Given the above information about the
>detergent, does this mean that using the dishwasher is an
>effective way to sanitize bottles?

I think the consensus was that while the dishwasher may not
effectively *clean* your bottles, it can do a good job of
*sanitizing* them if it has a "heated dry" type cycle.  The steam
from that cycle should sanitize quite nicely.

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Monday, 20 Jul 1992 09:41:38 EDT
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Mead Yeast Nutrients


I have since misplaced my copy, but one of Byron Burch's
advertisements (in the form of a newspaper, with articles and
such), mentioned a special Mead Yeast that they carry.

The gist of the article was that without proper nutrients, it
takes a long time for mead to ferment.  And that if you used a
beer yeast nutrient set, it would give a harsh taste that would
take a lot of aging to remove.  Therefore, using a special mead
yeast would get you that wonderfully-aged mead taste in much less
than a year.

Before I embark on such a proposition, has anyone tested this new
yeast nutrient formulation and found it significantly better for
their meads?


Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 10:08:32 EDT
From: "Rick Ringel - HNS/DCN project" <rringel at hns.com>
Subject: Trub, Windsor English Ale Yeast


Hello brewers,

I have a data point and a question.

> ALBERT W. TAYLOR writes:

> I just made a batch of beer, and this is the first time I have worried (yes,
> I worried!) about letting the trub settle out. 
> [stuff deleted]
> Does anyone know a better way than I propose?

I simply pitch as soon as my wort is cool enough, then rack the wort off
the trub a few hours later.  When the house is cooler, the yeast are
slower to get started, so I can leave it overnight. I should add that
I only brew ales, so I don't worry about the yeasties hiding
in the trub.  As long as I rack before the respiration stage is over,
I don't worry about the risk of oxidation.

Does anyone have any comments on Windsor English Ale Yeast from Canada?
Due to poor planning on my part, I couldn't get liquid yeast for my last
batch, and was unable to get Whitbread Ale. :^(  Windsor fermented 
out 7 pounds of malt extract in about 36 hours (at 78 degrees).  It only 
took about 4 hours to finish up the respiration stage.  Are the yeasties
hyper because of the temp, or is it a characteristic of this strain?  
What sort of off-flavors are caused by high-temp fermentations?

Thanks in advance.

 -Rick Ringel

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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1992 10:34 EST
From: MORGAN%KEKULE at Venus.YCC.Yale.Edu
Subject: Brewpubs, microbreweries, and supplies in New England.

Hi All!

I'm not sure that this really qualifies as an "article" so much as
a request for information.  My wife and I have just moved to the 
New Haven, CT area from central Ohio and were wanting some info on 
brewpubs and/or microbreweries that offer tours that are in the area.
I am aware of the Elm City brewery here in New Haven -- are there others
that are within a couple of hours?  I haven't yet located any brewpubs
here, but haven't had the chance to search too hard yet.  Also, are
there any homebrew suppliers nearby?  Thanks in advance for the info --
I've only been brewing for a short time, but have found the digest a
good source of info and ideas.  If it would be better, you can send
your suggestions / information directly to me (to keep from cluttering
up the digest) at:

			morgan%kekule at venus.YCC.Yale.edu

Thanks again.

Scott Morgan

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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 08:18:05 -0700
From: mcnally at wsl.dec.com
Subject: blue stuff on wort chiller


Based on my world-class understanding of chemistry, I'd guess that the
blue stuff that forms on your copper wort chiller is copper sulfate.
If I'm right, then you definitely want to get rid of it; it's toxic.
You might try rinsing with a little vinegar and salt in boiling water.

_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
Mike McNally                                           mcnally at wsl.dec.com
Digital Equipment Corporation
Western Software Lab

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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 08:58:25 PDT
From: Greg.Winters at EBay.Sun.COM (Greg Winters)
Subject: Re: Bay Area Bottled Beers


Michael T. Daly writes...

>I have had some of the Anchor and SN products, and I plan on looking
>for additional varieties which they don't ship (I found the SN Mai Bock
>in Ft. Collins CO.  Very nice.  Almost convinced me to start lagering.).

>I have had mixed impressions of the San Andreas Brewing Co's Richter
>Scale Ale -- the first year was very good, the last one I had tasted
>like orange juice....I think I'll skip them.  I seem to remember
>that Devil's Mt. is out of business....too bad, I liked their porter.
>I'll get some of the Dead Cat Alley (or what ever they call themselves)
>products, but I still have a half of a suitcase left....suggestions?

> (Russ mentioned Anderson Valley, Winchester, Rogue and Mendocino.  Who else?)


IMHO - Leave the Dead Cat (Piss) beer alone. They have had a serious infection
problem for a long time. Devil Mountain can't be out of business as I had their
Railroad Ale yesterday at the California Small Brewers Festival in Mt. View, Ca.
and it was very tasty. I would also skip the bottled versions of anything 
from Winchester. Although this is one of the first brew-pubs that got me 
hooked, I find the bottled versions boring and the pubs beers are not always
consistant.

Unfortunately, many of the beers served yesterday left something to be desired.
Many seemed to be quite young and a few were completely off - Monterey 
(as usual) and Boulder Creek Stout come to mind...

The Anderson Porter was delicious and a big hit, Mendocino Blue Heron Ale
was very disappointing yesterday, although I have had very good bottles in
the past. Anchor was there and thier products were great. They even had
Old Foghorn (Which used up about a third of my tokens!) Can you fit a keg
in your case? One from So. Ca. that I had never heard of "Rhino Chasers" 
had a very nice ale. Can't think of any other great beers that are also
available in bottles represented yesterday, but one other mention is a
hefeweizen from Gordon Birsch (of which I got the last glass!) which was
very tasty. I don't believe they sell in bottles though.

Greg

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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 12:11:19 EDT
From: hurls at bostech.com
Subject: Kegging Questions

Hi,

This is my first post.  I am planning to begin brewing soon, 
and am interested in using soda kegs for fermentation and 
conditioning.  July 17's issue left me with a question:

thomasf at deschutes.ico.tek.com (Thomas D. Feller) writes 

> In two of the kegs I have short (~1 in) copper caps on the 
> bottom of the pick-up tubes, the caps keep me from pulling 
> up alot of yeast from the bottom of the keg.

Can you be more descriptive about these caps.  Do they carry 
screens or do they just elevate the bottom of the pick-up
tubes?

Jim Hurley (hurls at bostech.com)


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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 10:27:05 MDT
From: Jeff Benjamin <benji at hpfcbug.fc.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Lager vs Ale malts?

I posted this to rec.crafts.brewing recently, but since the lager vs
ale malt discussion is continuing, I thought I'd repost it here for the
benefit of those who don't read r.c.b.  I also added few more comments.

Re: highly modified malts

According to a local (Ft.  Collins, CO) maltster/seed-lab technician Jim
Bruce, there is actually little difference in modification between
various malts.  He says that all malts these days (US ale, UK ale,
continental lager) are all highly modified; the differences are in the
kilning technique and in the barley itself.

Jim specializes in continental-style lager malts, which he says differ
from ale malts in protein content due to a longer, more gradual increase
in kilning temperature.  Ale malts have a shorter kilning time with a
sharper upwards temperature curve.  The end result is that lager malts
retain more proteins which are necessary to sustain the yeast over long
lagering periods.  Therefore, he says, you can use a lager malt to make
an ale, but not the other way around.  He also stresses that lager malts
will benefit from a multi-step mash to extract these proteins, whereas
ale malt can be used for a one-step infusion and achieve the same
protein extraction.

Larry Barello posts that "The bottom line is that step mashing is
probably a quaint practice that is a hangover from big commercial
breweries that use lots of rice and corn (where step mashing is still
needed)."  According to Jim, this isn't the case.  A step mash is useful
for ensuring a high-protein wort, not for converting adjuncts (though it
may be helpful there as well).  We all agree, however, that in terms of
enzymatic power and sugar extraction, lager and ale malts are
comparable.

Jim also maintains that the difference between US and UK pale malts is
that UK barley is grown in soils that are less heavily fertilized with
artificial fertilizers and therefore have a lower nitrogen content.

BTW, for those of you here in the central/south west region (CO, ID,
AZ, NM, UT, MT, WY, TX), there's an article on Jim in last month's Rocky
Mountain Brews.

For the record, I typically use a 3-step mash (122F for 30min, 150-155F
for about an hour, and 170F for 10 min).  It doesn't seem that much more
difficult than straight infusion.  I've done infusion mashes, but I've
never done a direct comparison.

- ----
Jeff Benjamin                               benji at hpfcla.fc.hp.com
Hewlett Packard Co.                         Fort Collins, Colorado	
"Midnight shakes the memory as a madman shakes a dead geranium."

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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 12:33:37 EDT
From: gkushmer at Jade.Tufts.EDU
Subject: Cranberry Ale


Hi everyone,

I was interested in trying one of the Cranberry Ale recipies that I 
saw in The Cats Meow 2 but have a couple of questions:

	1) anyone ever try either of them and have some recommendations
	   to give?

	2) should I use the bags of forzen cranberries that have been
	   in the house freezer door for three years?  (I only
	   moved in recently - don't blame me!)

One other thing that has been bugging me - does anyone know of a source for
beer barrels other than Beer Wine and Hobby in Woburn, MA?  I want
to give one of those a shot but don't like the prices (on anything)
at the only place that I know has any of these.


Cheers,

- --gk

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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 11:42:13 CDT
From: roddy at visual-ra.swmed.edu (Roddy McColl)


JKL <JLAWRENCE at UH01.Colorado.EDU> writes 
>    Also, I'm going to a conference in Dallas in October.  Did I
>read here that brewpubs are ILLEGAL in Texas, or was that some other
>sadly backwards state?  If there are any in Dallas, I'd appreciate
>comments.
>
> - Jane

'Fraid so, Jane. All thanks to Texas State government and Anheiser-Busch
(disclaimer: so the story goes). The law says something along the lines of
"alcoholic beverages may not be sold on the same premises as they are brewed."
The result is that all the breweries must have hospitality rooms or
give the stuff away, etc. but that brewpubs are forbidden.

	However, I was talking with some friends about this the other
day, and one of them said that they knew of a place which made you
purchase coupons which could be then exchanged for beer. I don't know
if it would be possible to get round the law that way - maybe the ACLU
would be prepared to sponsor a test case ?

	On the bright side, there are a number of micro breweries in
Texas whose products can be purchase in draught here in Dallas. So
it's not all woe. Just make sure you visit the Gingerman, at the
corner of the Quadrangle (everyone knows where that is).

Roddy McColl.

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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 11:02:51 MDT
From: Rick Myers <rcm at hpctdpe.col.hp.com>
Subject: Colorado Brewers Festival
Full-Name: Rick Myers

> In response to Rick Meyers' review:  Sounded more negative than my
> experience.  This year's festival drew an estimated 20,000 brew fans
> and wanna be's:  almost twice the crowd of last year.  The organizer's
> definitely got the system down this year.  Rick also mentioned his
> dissapointment with the beer selection.  This point and his earlier
> statement about lines being reduced from 20-30 min last year to 5 min
> this year are directly related.  Imagine, if you will, 10,000 people
> to again allow each brewer to offer a selection of brews.  If you have
> a chance to go next year, do it.

Yes, it was slightly negative, but only due to the beer selection (which
is the main reason I went!)  Reducing the waiting time is no excuse for
serving mainstream-style beer.  If they continue to limit selection and
only serve the styles they did this year, I WON'T be attending next year.

By all means, if you've never been, try to make it next year!

Rick

- --
Rick Myers    rcm at col.hp.com
Hewlett-Packard
Network Test Division
Colorado Springs, CO

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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 09:58:55 -0700
From: lg562 at koshland.pnl.gov
Subject: lactobacillus culture

I have a friend that would like to obtain a culture of Lactobacillus.
Could anyone provide me with a starter or point me in a direction
where I can get a starter for him?  Many thanks!

The Oregon Brewers Festival was wonderful!  There were lots of
interesting brews, including a Green Chile Ale.  Instead of
extinguishing the fire from spicy foods, this one flamed them!


Michael Bass
Molecular Science Research Center, K2-18
Battelle - Pacific Northwest Laboratory
Richland, Washington  99352
lg562 at pnl.gov
n7wlc


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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 10:34:20 PDT
From: Tom Bower <bower at hprnlme1.rose.hp.com>
Subject: Yeast for a barleywine (recommendations please)?

I've got barleywine on the brain, and am looking forward to making one now
for this winter's consumption.  It'll be my first attempt, and I have a 
question:  I haven't seen much consensus on what yeast to use...  

There seem to be several schools of thought:

        - Use a wine yeast (exclusively)
        - Use an ale yeast (exclusively)
        - Use an ale yeast to start, then add a wine yeast later to finish

At the moment, I'm leaning toward using a hardy ale yeast;  the triple-strain
Whitbread comes to mind, as (from what I read here on the HBD) it contains one
strain which will survive the higher alcohol levels.  Also, I imagine the
SNPA American Ale yeast may do, since SN uses it for the Bigfoot.  I'm trying
to look at this barleywine as a strong beer rather than as a wine, and hope-
fully de-emphasize the wineyness.  All you barleywiners, what say ye??

Is the Whitbread 3-strain ale yeast available in liquid form? (like Wyeast?)

Any recommendations for a first-time BarleyWhiner?

Tom Bower.

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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 13:42:22 -0400
From: bradley at adx.adelphi.edu (Rob Bradley)
Subject: Missing HBD#921

I never received #921.  Anybody got a handy copy they can send me?
Thanks

Cheers,
Rob
(bradley at adx.adelphi.edu)

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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 10:48:39 PDT
From: gak at harirud.wrs.com (Richard Stueven)
Subject: Re: Coffee Stout

In HBD #924, Drew Scott writes:

>Does anyone have any experience with adding coffee to stouts?
>How much should be added so that there isn't an overpowering
>coffee flavor (assuming a 5 gallon batch) - just an ounce or two?
>And is it best to leave the beans whole?

For each of my two Coffee Stouts, I brewed a strong pot (8-10 cups) of
either Zimbabwe or Morroccan coffee from Peet's Coffees in Berkeley.
The flavor and aroma of good strong coffee was unmistakeable, but not
overwhelming.  I rated the first batch as one of my top three ever.  I
botched the third batch (didn't boil off nearly enough volume, so the
beer turned out Way Too Light) but the flavor was still quite good.

Both of these recipes are based on the one in Cat's Meow 2...sorry, I
don't have it here, so I can't give you the exact name or page number.

have fun
gak
107/H/3&4


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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 09:58:46 CDT
From: whg at tellabs.com
Subject: Mailing beer (humor)


Let me start off by saying this is a true story.

A couple of years ago, a buddy of mine (Tim) returned to St. Louis from LA.
While living in California, he and another friend had an uncontrollable
urge for Busch beer.  Not Bud, not but Bussssch!, which I understand is not
marketed much out of the Midwest. (At the risk of detroying all crediability
on this forum, I can attest to the ingrain desire of all St. Louisiannes
for Busch.)  As a gesture of friendship, Tim decided to pack up a case of 
Busch and send it to his wayward friend in LA.  He packed up a case and
walking into the post office and plunked it down on the counter.  The
clerk hefted it onto the scale and noting the weight asked if he wanted
the package sent "book" rate.  Tim mis-understood and thought she was 
asking if he wanted it sent "Busch" rate. "You've got a special rate for 
that?" he asked.  So the next time your sending beer through the mail,
ask for the "Busch" rate.

Walter Gude    ||   whg at tellabs.com
h


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Date: 20 Jul 92 14:35:22 EDT (Mon)
From: GC Woods <gcw at garage.att.com>
Subject: Old Bay Special Amber Beer Festival


On July 22 & 23 the "Old Bay Restaurant" in New Brunswick, NJ
(908-246-3111) will be celebrating the arrival of "Old Bay Special
Amber" draft beer from 9:30 PM to closing. The event cost $3 which
includes German food and the first taste of beer is on the house with an
invite card.  The Old Bay Special Amber will be produced by Stoudt's 
micro brewery.

Other Old Bay news is that Stoudt's Honey Dopplebock and weizen beer are
now in (on tap) and the raspberry weizen and Sierra Nevada Summerfest
will be soon.

Geoff Woods	| It's not just sluggin' gorms neemer!	|
		| ( not just for breakfast anymore	|

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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 15:11:59 EDT
From: css at srm1.stx.com (Chris Shenton)
Subject: Re: Wanted: Oatmeal Stout Recipe

To: homebrew at lupulus.ssc.gov
On Mon, 13 Jul Murray Robinson <robinm at mrd.dsto.gov.au> wrote:

    Does anybody out there have a good oatmeal stout recipe?  I am a
    relatively inexperienced home brewer (so the simpler the better)
    but am willing to tread new ground (ie full mash brews) in
    anticipation of an oatmeal stout to warm me on those winter days.

Here's an update on a message I sent in over a year ago. The recipe is
one of my all time favorites, and my beer guzzling friends thought it
was my best ever, also.

I wash shooting for something somewhere between Sam Smiths Oatmeal
Stout and Watneys Cream stout -- two of my faves. A totally biased
review follows the recipe.

If you don't want the Cream Stout characteristic, omit the lactose.

I'm not sure how it would work if you don't do a mash, but
Wegeng.Henr at Xerox.COM mailed me this comment:

    A mini-mash of the oatmeal will work as long as you also mash some
    malted barley with it, so that there will be enough enzymes to
    convert the starch in the oatmeal into sugar (oatmeal lacks the
    necessary enzymes).  I've done this a couple times with good
    results.

You might talk with Jay Hersh -- he once sent me a digest of his
extract-based oatmeal stout recipes.

Here's the recipe for my Oatmeal Cream Stout. It was pieced together by
comparing a number of Oatmeal and Cream Stout recipes posted to the HBD, as
well as information in Eckert's book: Essentials of Beer Style.

10#	pale ale malt
1#	roasted barley (500L)
0.5#	flaked barley (1.5L)
0.5#	crystal malt (60L)
0.5#	chocolate malt (400L)
1.3#	steel cut oats (from a health food store)
0.5#	lactose
9 aau	bullions pellets (9% alpha), boil 60 minutes
0.5 oz	fuggles pellets (3.4% alpha), boil 15 minutes
0.5 oz 	fuggles pellets (3.4% alpha), steep
0.7 stick brewers licorice (boil)
starter culture of Wyeast Irish Ale #1084

Mash with 5 gallons 18 oz (48 oz/#) at 155-150F for 90 minutes.
Sparge with 3 gallons water at 165F, collecting 6.5 gallons for boil.
Boil 75 minutes, then force chill.
Save 1.5 liters boiled wort for priming, ferment the rest.

OG: 1.062
FG: 1.021 (high due to unfermentable lactose)

COMMENTS

We did a taste test against Youngs Oatmeal Stout, Sam Smiths Oatmeal Stout,
and Watneys Cream Stout. It came out tasting **very** similar to Youngs:
same hop character, a little heavier, sweeter, and slightly less roasty; a
bit lighter in color (brown/red vs. brown/black). It was not as rich
tasting and full-bodied as the Sam Smiths. It was not as roasty/burnt as
Watneys, or as jet-black.

Next time, I would reduce the OG to about 1.050 to reduce alcohol a bit,
but add some dextrin malt for improved body. I'd aim a little more toward
the Watneys, as it's one of my all-time faves: slightly less lactose, but
more roasted malt.


As popular as this was, it didn't last very long. Next time, I'll
definitely do a double batch!


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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 15:09:00 EDT
From: dipalma at banshee.sw.stratus.com (James Dipalma)
Subject: mashing wheat malt




Hi all,

	This past weekend I brewed an all grain dunkelweizen.  This
was my first experience with wheat malt, I changed my procedure
somewhat, and something unusual occured.
	Having read that wheat malt is high in protien, I did an
extended protien rest, holding the mash at 118F-122F for one hour.
I then raised the temperature of the mash to 155F for one hour,
checking temperature and stirring at 10-15 minute intervals.  This
mash took just over two hours to convert, as verified by several
iodine tests.  Using the same equipment and procedures(except for the
longer protien rest), I have never had a mash take longer than 1 to
1 1/2 hours, using English pale, German 2 row pilsner, Munich, etc.

So, my questions to those who have mashed wheat malt:

Is it normal that conversion took so long?  I had read that wheat
malt is very high in amalyse enzyme, I expected a somewhat shorter
mash than normal.

Is an extended protien rest desirable?  Could this have affected
the starch conversion?

Some specifics:

5 lbs. wheat malt
3 lbs. munich malt
2 lbs. 2 row lager malt 
1/2 lb. black malt - did'nt mash this, just crushed and added to
lauter tun.

1.25 qt/lb, water to grist ratio

Initial SG 1.055 after boiling down to 5.25 gallons, so my extraction
was reasonable.  In fact, everything about the brew seems normal,
except for the longer mash.

P.S.  There has been a fair amount of discussion on the net lately
regarding the clove character (or lack thereof) imparted by Wyeast
3056.  Some have posted that higher fermentation temperatures seem
to help provide more clove flavor.  The above batch is now 
fermenting away in my 72F-75F basement, so in two-three weeks I'll
have some data on this point.

						Cheers,
						Jim


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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 15:09:52 EDT
From: Jay Hersh <hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu>
Subject: Correcting Jack, Jockey Box, Heavy Metal, Texas Brewpubs, hop drying


> Sure.  Most readers didn't need enlightening.  They recognized the error and 
> answered the question.  But some folks just can not ever let an opportunity 
> to be nasty pass.
> 
> Obviously, I was talking about lager yeast and the problem I anticipated by 
> storing culture slants.
 

You seem to forget that a lot of people don't find it obvious. Many people
read this forum to learn new things, and to them it's not obvious.

Additionally you are constantly in the habit of contradicting people,
and "debunking" even the most benign and commonly accepted of homebrewing
practices. How was I to know that you had made a simple mistake (in your
original text you mentioned Ale yeast twice in two places, seemingly quite
consistent. I'd perhaps had thought it simply a mistake if in one case you 
had had it right and the other wrong, the contradiction indicating a typo, 
but your post seemed to imply that once again you were challenging something)
rather than being engaged in propagating some new found wisdom.

Sorry Jack, but for one who is constantly passing himself off as an expert
on things, continually contradicting folks, pushing his products and opinions 
as the one "true religion", you're gonna have to do a little better.
If you can't make a short simple posting and not get something as basic
as lager and ale yeasts confused why should anyone believe your opinions
about any other issue. Your credibility problem is your own, and not of my 
making....



On the subject of Jockey Box's, John Francisco was on the right track.
According to Dave Miller, the pressure needed is related to tubing material
and length. He gave quite an in-depth talk on this at the AHA Conference
this year. I believe that notes from the conference are available through
the AHA (and there is some discount prrio to October I seem to recall), 
which would include the necessary info to calculate the proper pressure
for your line lengths (this seems to be very system specific). Sorry I
didn't take notes, so I only have my recollections of the general content
of the talk to guide you to those notes.



Dave Ballard asks about metallic tastes in an IPA. I had often noticed
many otherwise fine beers entered in contests having this flavor. The initial
assumption was the kind of pot used, but talking with George Fix and reading
his fine book now leads me to think otherwise. George indicates that in
beers with high hopping levels and low water hardness apparent metallic
flavors arise. While I have not done independent testing to verify this
I would suggest your consulting George's Principles of Brewing Science.
Do you know the hardness of your water?? Do you add anything to harden
the water?? My suggestion would be to start looking there.


There are no brewpubs in Texas. In Dallas the place to go is apparently
the Gingerman (sorry don't know the address) if you're looking for beer
selection.

In the past I have had great success in drying my hops in the oven.
I turn it on to the lowest heat setting, apprtoximately 125F, set them
on foil or cookie sheets and leave them overnight. My understanding is
that hop growers use a similar temperature but do this in a ventilated 
room rather than an oven, but this technique has worked OK for me the
2 years I have used it.


	JaH


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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 14:25 CDT
From: korz at ihpubj.att.com
Subject: Re: dryhopping

Keith asks about how long to dryhop.  I used to dryhop in the primary
as soon as the krauesen falls so the high-power fermentation does not
lift the hops into the blowoff tube and clog it AND because the large
volume of CO2 would scrub a lot of the bouquet out of the brew.  Then,
the beer would sit for two or three weeks in the primary until I was
ready to bottle (we're talking ales here, of course).  I noticed that
if I waited longer before bottling, I got less bouquet, so I decided to
try a new approach.  What I now do, is dryhop 7 days before bottling.
I wait for the fermentation to complete, dryhop, wait 7 days and then
bottle/keg.
Al.

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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 11:27 PDT
From: kwiseman at indetech.com (Kurt Wiseman)
Subject: Re: beer and Dogs? 

Does anyone else believe this works?  If anyone else has good/bad experience
I'd love to hear about it.
K.

- ------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 92 11:25:04 -0700
From: lgold at Cadence.COM (Lynn Gold)
Subject: Beer yeast and dogs

I changed the subject to "beer yeast" because "brewer's yeast" is a
VERY different product from the yeast we brew with.

I discovered the benefits to letting my dog (a 10lb Bichon Frise) tipple
a little when I was bottling one of my brews.

I was doing this on my porch, spilling (as we often do) some of the wort
as I was siphoning it into the bottles.  Fuzzball came by and started
licking up the spillage.

Before this, Fuzzball was VERY tasty to fleas.  After this, her flea problem
magically disappeared.  Since this was the only change to her diet, I knew
I'd come on to something.  Now whenever I open a bottle, I let Fuzzball have
the sediment.  She enjoys it, and as long as I drink enough :-), she doesn't
have fleas.

 - --Lynn

- ------------------------------


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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 14:52:06 MDT
From: rdg at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Subject: Bottles For Sale, Cheap


In fact, for free. I'm looking for somebody in the Northern Colorado
area to take some bottles off my hands. I have 12oz long necks, 
16oz swingtops, and 27.5oz wine bottles. How many? I don't know,
but let's just say it's around a zillion. Any takers? I'm not
giving up brewing, just bottling.

Rob


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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 12:26 CDT
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Kegs, Thermostats, Jocky Boxes  Trub

 
 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling
 
 >From: oconnor at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (donald oconnor)
 
 >The notion that o-rings from a used soda keg must be replaced because
 the soda syrup has impregnated the rubber is a myth for the most part.
 Sugars and flavor components will come out or off of the o-rings simply
 by soaking in water.
 
 I would be interested to know how long you soaked them.  I never bought new 
 ones but I have soaked them overnight in: bleach, 100% alcohol, vinegar, 
 baking soda, lie water and several other things which now escape me.  I can 
 still smell coke on all four of the ones I have.  One of them that was only 
 casually soaked in bleach and carefully flushed with water, all but destroyed 
 a batch of beer.  The taste of coke was so strong, the beer was barely 
 drinkable.
 
 >Additionally, since the o-rings are not in contact with the beer then
 the idea that even some minute residual odor will destroy the flavor
 profile of a malty beer seems very unlikely.
 
 I would be interested to know how you think the o-ring seals without 
 contacting the beer.  My guess is that at least 30% of the large one sealing 
 the lid is exposed to beer on the inside.
 
 >From: scott at gordian.com (Scott Murphy)
 >Subject: kegging question
 
 >I have kegged three of my batches to date.  I don't add priming
 sugar.  Instead, I siphon the beer into the keg, seal it and add
 CO2.  I crank the pressure up to 25psi or so, invert the keg, and
 occasionally give it a good shake.  I reach drinkable carbonation
 levels within a day.
 
 Welcome to the club.  I used to let it sit for a week to carbonate before I 
 learned that shaking the hell out of it would do the job in 15 minutes.  
 However, I am curious to know why you invert the keg.  It seems like an 
 unnecessary exercise.
 
 >Does anybody think that priming (natural carbonation) is a better
 way to go than forced carbonation?
 
 I kinda do but the lack of sediment and turn-around time are tough to fight.
 
 >From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
 >Subject: Fridge thermostats
 
 >Roger suggests using the Honeywell thermostat for converting a fridge
 to our temerature range.
 
 Just, pray tell, what is "our temperature range"?  I am having a hard time 
 not being bored with all this talk of fridge temp controllers.
 
 Baderbrau ferments, ages and bottles/kegs their beer at 50F.  This is a high 
 quality pilsner lager and any fridge I have ever seen can maintain 50F with 
 no outside help.
 
 What am I missing?
 
 >From: korz at iepubj.att.com
 >Subject: Re: My jockeybox
 
 >Russell writes:
 
 >Perhaps the length of the tubing in the "jockeybox" is the problem.
 >The amount of beer sitting in the tubing and the amount of time
 >any sip of beer spend sitting in the tubing increase with tubing
 >length.  10 feet of tubing with a cross-sectional area of 1 cm2
 >will easily accommodate an entire glass of beer.
 
 >I think the problem I had was that this was industrial beer being
 dispensed continuously from a rented (grungy lines) jockeybox.  I still
 believe, though, that the pressure would have to be pretty high to get the
 CO2 to dissolve into the beer in the keg which is at, say 68F.  This
 would be much too high a pressure for dispensing the beer.  Even
 if the beer got to spend a few hours at 50F, so much of the dissolved CO2
 would stay in solution when the beer finally came out of the faucet,
 the pressure drop may still cause it to foam a lot.
 
 I think I see the light.  Your jokey box is a big coil of copper tubing with 
 all the potential problems outlined above.
 
 Whereas, the cold plate is a very short run of very small gage tubing in a 
 killer heat sink.  This seems to have  enough advantages to make it worth 
 starting over:
 
 1.   Holds only 2 oz of beer.
 
 2.   One cup of cubes will chill a glass or two.
 
 3.   Narrow tubing simulates long run without holding a lot of beer.
 
 The point of (3) is that you can boost the keg pressure to properly carbonate 
 beer at room temperature and still dispense it properly.
 
 >From: Jeff Benjamin <benji at hpfcbug.fc.hp.com> `
 >Subject: Counterflow chiller plans, killer sparge gadget
 
 >Tonight we just tried out some new lautering hardware that beats the
 Zapap lauter tun hands down (Charlie, how could you have lead us astray?
 :-).
 
 >The manifold is made with about 5 feet of tubing, 4 tees, 5 endcaps, one
 elbow, and one step-down for matching the size of the plastic hose.
 
 I am so glad people are beginning to see the light.  There are other ways of 
 doing things, aren't there?
 
 You can go one step farther (closer) and use only 6 inches of tubing and a 4 
 X 6 inch piece of window screen, rolled into a tube and clamped on to the 
 tubing.  I have been using this since my first all grain batch and see no 
 reason to ever get any more complicated.  If anyone is interested, I have all 
 the bits and pieces and instructions on doing it in a posting called 
 Easymash.  Just email if you want it.
 
 >From: "CMD 2NDLT ALBERT W. TAYLOR " 
 <S94TAYLOR at usuhsb.ucc.usuhs.nnmc.navy.mil>
 >Subject: Trub
 
 >I just made a batch of beer, and this is the first time I have worried (yes,
 I worried!) about letting the trub settle out.  Only problem is that it took
 overnight for it to all fall out, even after the wort is completely cooled.
 My question is how much damage can be done by letting the stuff sit over-
 night to let the trub settle out..... Does anyone know a better way than I 
 propose?
 
 Yes.  Stop worrying about it.   What does not settle out by the time it cools 
 will settle out during fermentation/aging.
 
 js
 

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Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 22:19:21 PDT
From: polstra!larryba at uunet.UU.NET (Larry Barello)
Subject: Oatmeal Stout recipe

Al Korz chastisted me for including a partial recipe for Oatmeal Stout
in HBD #924 (an article about mashing oats and other specialty grains).
To set the record straight here is the entire recipe:

7lb Great Western MAlting (GWM) Pale Malt. (e.g. 2-row pale/lager/ale malt)
1lb Huge Baird (HB) Roast Barley (also supplied by GWM)
1lb Rolled Oats from my co-op.
8oz HB light caristan (e.g. 15-20L crystal)

Entire brewing water supply (7gal) treated with 5gm gypsum and 1 gm chalk
(calcium carbonate).

Mash in with 8qt  at  137f, target temp 123f.
After 30 minutes, step with 5qt boiling water, target temp 154f
Conversion done in 20 minutes or so.  Mash out at 168.
Sparge with remaining supply water to collect 6 gal
boil 60 minutes with 35gm chinook pellets (13% alpha) Est. IBU 67
OG with 5.5 gal of wort is 1.054
Chill, pitch 12gm dry whitbread ale yeast.
TG after 6 days  at  68f was 1.020, 3.73 %w/w, 183 cal/12oz
Fine with 1/2tsp gelatine dissolved in water when kegging.

I kegged with 1qt of wort recovered from the kettle after chilling.
I strain out the hops/trub with a fine hop bag and can the wort to
preserve it until kegging time.  It would work just as well to force
carbonate or use priming sugar.  Don;t over do it.  Stouts are not
supposed to be fizzy.  Still, with all that Oatmeal, the head is
tremendous!  Get out a fork and knife when drinking :=)

This stout has a smokey aroma - probably due to the large amount
of roast barley.  Even though it has a lot of hops, it seems balanced.
I think that Oatmeal makes teh resulting beer quite sweet.  If served
too cold (say 45f or below) it will be quite bitter.  At 50-55 it 
is like nectar.  Sip, sip - writing this article gave me a thirst so
I opened up a bottle.  Mmm, good stuff.  I bottled the last gal or so
from my keg to make room for another beer...

Cheers!

 - Larry Barello

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #929, 07/21/92