FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  PET Bottles (PGRAHAME)
  Question on racking after chilling (Brett Shorten)


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Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 20:56 EDT
From: ncrcae!buzz at devine.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM

>From brew Sun Jul 26 19:02 EDT 1992 remote from devine
Subject: Re: Advanced Brewing (NON-EXTRACT) worth it?
To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Homebrew Digest)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 19:02:23 EDT
From: brew <brew at devine>
From: Jim Griggers <brew at devine.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11(MM)]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 1794


In HBD933 Joe Dalsin (joed at mozart.cbs.umn.edu) writes:
 ->I've recently been thinking of getting more involved and move on to
 ->all grain brewing but I'm not really sure if it's worth the effort.  I'll
 ->need lots of new equipment, more time dedication, etc.  Those may even be
 ->advantages as I like the process and care of brewing but how much can I
 ->expect the quality of the beer to increase assuming it's properly done?  

I am not going to address the question of beer quality.  There are people
on the Digest far more qualified than I that can answer that question.
However, I was just reading some back issues of Zymurgy, and Joe's 
statement reminded me of an editorial in the winter 1991 issue by Charlie
Papazian titled "Turtles and Zymurgy".

 ....... "Beermaking, beer drinking; isn't this what a lot of
  this zymurgy stuff is all about?  Enjoying the process.
  Often never minding how great the beer tastes or
  doesn't taste.  Totally involved with the process of learning.
  Making mistakes.  Not getting it just right.  All the while
  loving the journey; savoring the long journey and appreciat-
  ing the process.  There's so much more to enjoy there than
  the quick swallow at the end of the process--the goal." .........

I know I enjoy the creation of a beer just about as much as I enjoy
drinking it.  The brewing process certainly has enough technical aspects
to keep a tinkering engineer like myself happy tweaking equipment and
processes.  I enjoy brewing as a *hobby*, so switching to all grain was
just one more process to play with.

     Jim Griggers                    * * * * * 
     brew at devine.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM   *     *
     408 Timber Ridge Dr.              *   *
     West Columbia, SC                * * *
     29169                           *   * 



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Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 22:20 EDT
From: PGRAHAME%BENTLEY.BITNET at mitvma.mit.edu
Subject: PET Bottles

I was intrigued by comments from the subscriber who spoke of PET bottles
available for homebrewing from Canada.  In Ontario, more than one micro-
brewery set up using PET bottles for economic reasons: far cheaper than
purchasing a conventional bottling line.  They have been fairly well-
received by the public, and one Toronto homebrew friend recycles these as
part of his bottle ensemble. He also uses sturdy glass soda bottle (quart
size) which take metal caps.  When I began brewing here, I used US soda
bottles, 1 & 2 quart size, because I had nothing else and didn't want to
buy a capper.  I also used the odd commercial quart beer bottle (Bud, Coors,
etc.), and a few Canadian 750 ml glass bottles I had.  ALL of these take the
same plastic twist-on caps.  Now here's the interesting part.  My main concern
was breakage; from that perspective I expected the plastic bottles to be the
best.  My next concern was sealing; I expected the plastic bottles to seal
better (plastic against plastic).  To my surprise, I have never broken a
bottle, even with very lively brews.  I did not really trust the US beer
bottles, since they are for single use & artificial carbonation.  With short
storage (3 - 4 weeks), I notice no difference.  With longer storage (2 months)
the result was surprising.  The beer stored in glass was much better, with no
off-tastes.  The beer stored in plastic had a taste with I attribute to oxi-
dation.  Since the seals and conditioning were fine in all cases, I assume
the plastic is "breathing" to some extent.  This result has been repeated over
several batches.  Accordingly, my aim is to go all glass.  The Canadian bottles
are great, made for multiple use & very strong.  Obviously, trips across the
border are in order.  I still don't trust the US beer bottles re ability to
take pressure, and besides you have to deal with the lifeless beer that comes
in them!  I still see no reason, apart from esthetics or perhaps judging
rules, for using metal caps though.  The plastic caps hold up over many uses
& thus create less waste, in a way.  I have never had one fail.  A last
comment on PET: the Canadian plastic beer bottles are much thicker than our
plastic soda bottles, so should store a bit longer; still I would expect
oxidation to be a problem to some extext.  Are there any cheaply available
glass bottles similar to the Canadian 750 ml soda bottles?  And are there
any real reasons not to use twist-on caps?

Cheers, Peter

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Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 11:59:26 EST
From: Brett Shorten <s05bas at cc.uow.edu.au>
Subject: Question on racking after chilling

 I think this question may have been addressed recently, but I have
forgotten the answer and am anxious to know!
  I recently made an immersion chiller, and used it for the first time 2
days ago. It worked brilliantly, cooling my brew from boiling to cold in
about 15-20 mins. However, when I then immediately racked to primary, I was
stunned by the prodigious amount of break material, at least 5-6 litres
(what we measure in in Australia). As a result, from 21+lt of wort, I only
successfully got 18lt to primary, and even then I transferred a small amount
of break material with it.
  So how can I enjoy the benefits of chilling without sacrificing a large
percentage of wort in the process? The only thing I can think of that I
might have done to contribute to the problem was to pour the boiled wort
into another container before chilling, in order to strain out the leaf hops
in the boil.
  One other question that occurs to me. What is the recommended procedure
for dry-hopping in the secondary with pellet hops?. Are they added as is, or
'dissolved' first?
Brett Shorten

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #935, 07/27/92