FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Marcato Marga Mullino mill (Jay Hersh)
  Brewing Disaster (Karen Jdsgeoac Hyrum GEOACOUSTIC)
  hops (Dan Watson)
  Re: BEER CONCENTRATE (Arthur Delano)
  foxx (dave ballard)
  Where is Bayreuth?  (Jeff Mizener)
  Siphons (Chris Estes)
  Bud's claims to be "naturally carbonated" (Michael J. Gerard)
  More on CO2 (Karl F. Bloss)
  siphon bubbles (SCHREMPP_MIKE/HP4200_42)
  Digest reader/extractor for Unix? (Stefan Karlsson)
  re: Maisel (Bayreuth) (Fritz Keinert)
  Foxx Equiptment (Jeff Copeland)
  Bayreuth, Maisel (Tom Strasser)
  re. RE: siphon woes (Michael Biondo)
  beer concentrate (Houck)
  yeast at bottling time (Brian Bliss)
  yeast at bottling time (Brian Bliss)
  Yeast at bottling time (Paul dArmond)
  Re: Coffeemaker Mashtun (Chuck Cox)
  Re: sparging manifold, Kolsch (Jeff Benjamin)
  Hamburg 'n' Bayreuth (Don Scheidt)
  Dark Malt Extract Brew (glenn raudins)
  Re: Labels, Chiller hose (Jacob Galley)
  YEAST CULTURE (Jack Schmidling)
  Yeast and the nature of things (digger!tcm)
  re: siphon woes, an easy solution (Micheal Yandrasits)
  First posting (Morris at drew.drew.edu, David R)
  more hydrometer woes (David Klumpp)
  Bud keg setup help wanted (Arthur Delano)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 18:34:22 EDT
From: Jay Hersh <hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu>
Subject: Marcato Marga Mullino mill


OK here's notes from the field on the Marcato Marga Mullino
grain mill.

I was in A&J imports in the North End (of Boston) last week. When I was
in there the clerk in the store said they didn't have it.
I told them I knew someone who had seen it there, so I left
my name and number. The store manager called me back during
the week and said that they indeed have the mill, and it is $60.

Considering the price of the mill and it's quality I think this
is reasonable. The mill however does have the following (all easily
remedied) problems.

1) The grain did not seem to draw well into the rollers, even though
they are scored in a spiral manner. The grooves for the scoring
were too small compared to the grain size to effectively pull the
grain in.

Solution: I went to the hardware store and got a disc shaped grinding
stone. I used this to grind 4 small (~1/8 inch) grooves parallel to
the length of the roller. These grooves are pretty shallow, but they
work real well to pull the grain in. While I did dissasemble the mill 
to grind the roller I now realize that that was not necessary at all,
I could have simply used the table clamp that comes with it to hold
the whoe assembly in place, and have ground the roller in place with 
no problem. 

Now I get fine throughput and a real good crush...


2) Small hopper size

Solution: make an extender out of empty coke or pepsi bottles..


3) Small catch tray size

Solution: either cut out one end of the tray and prop it up to
make a chute to re-direct the grain into a pot or other container,
or make something siomilar out of empty soda bottles...


Costs of modifications (assuming you already own a drill)
$1.85 for grinder head + cost of the soda bottles (you DO get to drink 
the soda). An additional $2.50 or so for a 3/8 inch boring bit
will allow you to drive the mill with a power drill.

I think this mill is very good. It is only slightly more than a
Corona, but gives a far better crush for the extra $$, and is
less expensive than some other mills on the market.

In all I am now really happy with this mill and plan to crush
abd brew as soon as I get back from vacation...


        JaH

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopfen und Malz, Gott erhalts

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Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 18:32:46 EDT
From: jdsgeoac at typhoon (Karen Jdsgeoac Hyrum GEOACOUSTIC)
Subject: Brewing Disaster


This story is so terrible you may think I made it up, but its true.  A
friend of mine was so inspired by my HB that he decided to brew some
of his own.  He read Papazian and Miller, and watched me brew a batch.
He was ready.  

One fine Saturday he went to his dads house and brewed up his first batch.
Not having a wort chiller, but wanting to cool his beer quickly, he filled
the second floor wash tub with water and placed his brew pot in it.

Then disaster...The wash tub broke off the wall, landed on his foot, and
spilled its contnents.  The wort/water mix quickly found the stairs and 
ended up in the family room.  The builder had molly bolted the wash tub
to the wall and counted on the plastic pipe to hold the weight.

This certainly was not a "Easy chill Method".  Has anyone had a worse
first brewing experiance?

Hyrum Laney

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Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 17:18:47 MST
From: dwatson at as.arizona.edu (Dan Watson)
Subject: hops



   Howdy all,

   I have been interested in growing hops, and have read lots of good info
on this digest.  (This is largely academic, as I expect that they will not
grow well here in Tucson.)  Anyway, my wife Judy and I were out
camping last week on the San Francisco river in New Mexico.  One
morning we hiked into a spectacular canyon called the Frisco Box; 600
foot cliffs about 30 feet apart, huge boulders, all in all a great
spot.  After climbing and wading thru about a half mile of the box we
were resting on the rocks when I noticed something oddly familiar
about the bright green vines along the cliffs... Yup, HOPS!  They were
vigorous ang healthy, about 30 feet tall at least, and covered with
soft green cones.  I was amazed!  Unfortunatly they were unripe, but
if anyone wants to try to harvest them, e-mail me for directions.  I
would love to try to use some of them in a "Frisco Box Bock" maybe.

					Dan Watson
				"Ahhh beer; the mother of us all!"
  				  -Marshall Efron, circa 1972-

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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 08:43:21 EDT
From: Arthur Delano <ajd at itl.itd.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: BEER CONCENTRATE


Jack Schmidling supplied some interesting information about Busch's     
claims about Coors' brewing processes (hang with it, it gets easier).
I had seen the clipping regarding Coors' lawsuit against Busch, and
intended to post it but left the newspaper at work.

Busch had made a commercial, or series of commercials, claiming that
Coors prepared their beer in a concentrated form in Colorado, and
shipped some of it to Virginia to be diluted to a conventional
level and distributed from their plant there.  Coors got an in-         
junction against the ads, so they are no longer airing (i haven't
seen them at all).  I don't recall the wording of the article, but
detailed in it were claims that either (a) Coors really didn't do
it or (b) they did it but so did all other major brewers, including
Annheuser-Busch.  If the case were the former, then there is a
relatively simple libel suit (...about as simple as two major
corporations slugging it out can be!).  If the case were the latter,
then i'm more intrigued than scandalized.

Think of it... high-gravity Coors beer!

Jack writes:
] It seems that 
] Coors is claiming to use Rocky Mountain Spring Water in the beer that they 
] are "brewing" in Virginia 

They may be hewing the the letter, if not spirit, of their claims.  If     
Coors prepares a heavy wort in Colorado and then ships it to Virginia,
the beer will, in fact, have some water from the Rocky Mountains in it,
albeit not much -- more of a homeopathic dose.

] It is interesting to speculate just what "beer concentrate" might be.

My uneducated speculation is that they prepare a heavy wort, ready for
fermentation, in CO and ship it to VA to dilute, ferment, and bottle.
If i were covering the story and had the time to do so, i would take a
tour of the Virginia plant to see what is done there.

AjD
In my first paragraph, substitute "Busch" with "Anheuser-Bush", please...

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Date: 21 Aug 1992   8:38 EDT
From: dab at blitzen.cc.bellcore.com (dave ballard)
Subject: foxx



hey now-  just wanted to mention that i received a catalog from foxx
a week or so ago along with a letter saying that they will still
offer wholesale prices to "legitimate" homebrew clubs on items 
purchased in quantities of three or more (i'm the president of our
club, which is why i got the letter).  

i know it's not a good as it used to be but it's still better than 
nothing.  if you can scrape up a couple of people who need to order
the same stuff, you're in business...


dab


=========================================================================
dave ballard		                no witty quotes today...
dab at cc.bellcore.com        
=========================================================================


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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 09:22:43 EDT
From: avalon!jm at siemens.siemens.com (Jeff Mizener)
Subject: Where is Bayreuth? 

	Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 08:44:38 -0700
	From: mcnally at wsl.dec.com
	Subject: re: Maisel (Bayreuth)
	
	
	A chance to correct Darryl Richman can't be passed up!  Bayreuth is
	east of Munich, not west.  It is the home of Maisel as well as the
	huge opera house constructed by Ludwig II (I think) for Wagnerian
	productions.
	
	(Now watch somebody correct me ... )

No, Linz (Austria) is east of Munich.
Bayreuth is directly NORTH of Munich (about 200km).
Kulmbach (home of EKU) is ~25km NNW of Bayreuth.
Ceske Budejovice (Budweis) is ~230km ENE of Munich.
Plzen (Pilsen) is ~220km NNE of Munich.

Don't you people keep maps of east central Europe at your computers?  Sheesh! :-)

Jeff
jm at sead.siemens.com

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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 09:42:25 -0400
From: cestes at argos5.DNET.NASA.GOV (Chris Estes)
Subject: Siphons

Hi all...

Regarding siphons, there has been some discussion that the plastic canes
might be causing problems.  The problem comes in where the flexible tubing
meets the rigid cane and is probably due to a difference in the respective
internal diameters of the cane and the tube (I'm a computer guy not a
physicist!).  I usually find that if you pinch the tube right where it
mates to the cane, the bubble will be pushed out and you'll rid the tube
of bubbles.

As far as bubbles appearing in other parts of the tube, my experience 
has shown that as long as the tube is descending over its entire length
(not going up and down), this happens to a lesser degree.

And now a question on starting siphons...  Starting siphons is a part of brewing
that I WORRY about!  Well, sometimes.  I generally try to sanitize my tubes
in a standard bleach/water solution.  I fill them with tap water and start
as recommended in most books.  But, during the process of filling them with
tap water, my hands touch the tubes.  The tubes touch the sink.  This worries
me.  Sometimes I don't fill the tubes enough and I have to start over.
If I do this too many times I might start the siphon with my MOUTH!  Then
I really worry.  I've made a few bad batches, and usually attribute it to
bad siphoning techniques (except for the dropped thermometer which I retreived
with an unwashed hand...).  Anyway... My question:  Has anyone ever used a
hand or drill operated pump for racking.  I've seen them for pumping gas
from one car to another and other dubious activities and wonder about their
application in beer.  Any comments?

 -Chris-

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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 09:06:39 CDT
From: Michael J. Gerard <mjgerard at eng.auburn.edu>
Subject: Bud's claims to be "naturally carbonated"
Full-Name: Michael J. Gerard

I saw an ad on TV the other day for Budweiser.  In
the ad it claimed that bud was "naturally carbonated".

This does not make any sense to me.  If it was primed
there would be sediment and the bottles (or cans)
would require aging.  

Does anyone out there know anything about this claim?

Just curious,

Mike

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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 10:25:19 -0400
From: blosskf at ttown.apci.com (Karl F. Bloss)
Subject: More on CO2

Although I didn't catch all of the conversation on CO2 dispensing, I have
a few comments:  Almost any grade of liquid CO2 should only contain
residual O2 and N2 in the head space since the normal boiling points
( at 14.7 psia) are -109, -297, and -320 deg F, respectively.  So the small
percentage of other 'stuff' in the CO2 will be hydrocarbons and similar
organic stuff that comes in out of the air.  I'll check for sure with
distribution, but my guess is that it's just residuals from air separation.
Don't forget that cryogenic CO2 has the lovely property of turning solid
if the pressure is taken off (i.e. dry ice)... we've heard of whole
trailers doing that; then all you can do is wait for it to sublimate.

***********************************************************************
* Karl F. Bloss, Systems Engineer  | internet: blosskf at ttown.apci.com *
* Air Products & Chemicals, Inc.   | Prodigy : DPXM52A                *
* Telephone: (215) 481-5386        | FAX:       (215) 481-2446        *
***********************************************************************

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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 07:55:00 pdt
From: SCHREMPP_MIKE/HP4200_42 at pollux.svale.hp.com
Subject: siphon bubbles

There's been plenty of talk about how to make a siphon so bubbles won't form,
but these ideas don't help when there are bubbles forming in the tube. Here's
what I do when this happens:

Pinch the soft plastic tube above the bubbles to slow the flow. This lets the
little bubbles collect into a big one. Then let go of the tube and the wort
that's upstream will push the big bubble out through the tube.

It's important to watch for bubbles early and pinch before things get too bad
or this won't work. When I do get diostracted, I follow the same proceedure but
bend the hose up past where I pinched it so the bubble will float up and allow
more fluid behind the bubble. This way, you can work the bubble to the end of
the tube.

At the early stages, when bubbles are forming right at the connection between
the cane and the tube, pinch it right there at the joint then let go. The
bubbles will flow right down the tube. Try it.


On another topic, I think the idea of a calssified section in this digest is
interesting. Let's watch the experiment somewhere else and if it works, lets
do it.



Mike Schrempp

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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 16:57:12 MET DST
From: Stefan Karlsson <stefank at math.chalmers.se>
Subject: Digest reader/extractor for Unix?

I've seen programs for reading the digest in a nice way for
PC and Mac, but does someone know about such a program for Unix,
for example a script for sed or emacs. mp -d breaks pages
for printing but it would be nice being able to extract
a single article. Please post or email.

Stefan Karlsson
Math dep, Univ of Goteborg, Sweden
 -
stefank at math.chalmers.se

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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 10:06:56 CDT
From: Fritz Keinert <keinert at iastate.edu>
Subject: re: Maisel (Bayreuth)

Mike McNally writes
> A chance to correct Darryl Richman can't be passed up!  Bayreuth is
> east of Munich, not west.  It is the home of Maisel as well as the
> huge opera house constructed by Ludwig II (I think) for Wagnerian
> productions.
>
> (Now watch somebody correct me ... )
>
OK, watch this: the map of Germany that is on the wall right next to
this computer here shows Bayreuth due north of Munich. So there!  :-)
- ---
Fritz Keinert                             phone:  (515) 294-5223
Department of Mathematics                 fax:    (515) 294-5454
Iowa State University                     e-mail: keinert at iastate.edu
Ames, IA 50011

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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 09:14:11 -0600
From: copeland at calypso.atmos.colostate.edu (Jeff Copeland)
Subject: Foxx Equiptment

In HBD 952 Jim Griggers writes

>In HBD 950  klm at mscg.com (Kevin L. McBride) writes:
>
>=>Foxx Beverage, who got into the homebrew kegging supply business by
>=>popular demand and has done us a tremendous service, is now getting
>=>out of it.
>
>This is sort of what I figured out since I have requested two catalogs from 
>Foxx and have not received them.  The nice woman on the phone took down my
>name and address, asked if this was for homebrewing so that she would know
>which catalog to send, and that she would get the catalog out right away.
>The first request was several months ago.
>
I called them up for a catalogue too a few weeks ago and it only took three
days to get to me, granted I asked for kegging and beverage dispensing supplies
(did not mention homebrewing) and had it sent to me at the university.

After getting the catalogue I went to their Denver location to pick up a few
things (2-stage regulator $36, disconnects $3.50) they were very helpful
It doesn't seem to me that they are getting out of the business, but they
may have raised their prices more in line with retail.  I don't know what
their old prices were, but what I got was the best price I could find by 
quite a bit but the prices on their kegs were a bit higher that elsewhere.

Jeff Copeland
Atmospheric Science
Colorado State University
Ft Collins CO 80523


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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 11:50:19 EDT
From: strasser at raj5.tn.cornell.edu (Tom Strasser)
Subject: Bayreuth, Maisel

Just to set the record straight, Darryl and Mike should check out their
maps, as Bayreuth, location of Maisel Brewery is *north* of Munich,
actually in Franconia, the northernmost part of Bavaria, and where you
would go to find the largest number of breweries per unit area in the
world (for any reasonably large area).  It is very near the border of
Czechoslovakia with the two formerly seperate German countries of East
and West Germany (the DDR and the BRD).  The area is famous for it's
Darker beers, such as Schwartz beer.  Also in the area is Bamberg, home
of the Rauchbier (smoked beer).  Perhaps the most famous beer from the
area would be E.K.U. 28, made in Kulmbach.  
	I might even go so far as to say that, hard as it is to believe,
*both* Mike and Darryl are wrong, as given the size of Munich, I don't
think Bayreuth is even slightly east or west of it :-).

Auf ein neues,

Tom Strasser...strasser at raj5.tn.cornell.edu...strasser at crnlmsc2.bitnet


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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 10:55:06 CDT
From: michael at wupsych.wustl.edu (Michael Biondo)
Subject: re. RE: siphon woes

Carl West writes:

>I too have had the problem with bubbles breaking the siphon. In my case
>it was because I was using one of those racking `canes'. At the place
>where the soft tubing is shoved onto the hard `cane' there's a great
>deal of turbulence in the flow, that's why and where the bubbles come
>out of solution and cause the problem.

A neat trick that was shown to me is just give the soft tubing a quick
pinch right where it joins the racking cane.  Any bubbles that have
formed usually flows right out.  In my case, once I have cleared the
bubbles one time, they usually don't re-accure.

Hope this helps...

    Mike Biondo
    michael at wupsych.wustl.edu


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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 10:25:38 MDT
From: jeorg at chs.com (Houck)
Subject: beer concentrate


>It is interesting to speculate just what "beer concentrate" might be.  I 
>suspect there is somthing missing from the process because if one only added 
>water it would be pretty flat.

could be quite good (with a little co2 added). my understanding is
that they brew and ferment here (colorado) and then ship to virginia
to be diluted and bottled or canned.

i believe coors' contention was that they no longer have "rocky mountain
spring water" on their label and that busch accusing coors of "watering
down their beer" was the pot calling the kettle ...

let the big guys duke it out.

>As another experiment, I'm going to make a batch with 6 lbs. Alexander's
>light extract, and then go heavy (3 lbs) on the crystal malt to see how
>much it takes to get that "caramelly" flavor.  Again, any others out there
>who've done something like this?  I'm trying to do some experiments to push
>normal limits of ingredients to see what the effect of extremes are in order
>to establish some scale for ingredients other than straight malt.

depends on how "caramelly" you want it. i can taste it using only one pound
40l crystal, but have used up to four. gets quite dark and sweet, so balance
the hops.
jeorg

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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 11:51:39 EDT
From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)
Subject: yeast at bottling time


Christopher Lyons (lyons at adc1.adc.ray.com) writes:
>I have a question about the addition of yeast at bottling time.  Is this
>recommended, and if so how much yeast should be added for a 5 gallon
>batch?  The reason I ask is that I have repeatedly primed with 3/4 cup of
>corn sugar and have gotten poor carbonation.  I have increased the amount
>of corn sugar to 1 cup for my last three batches, which has improved the
>carbonation, but is still far from the carbonation of commercial brews.
>I typically brew extract pale ales with and let the beer sit in the
>secondary for 4-to-5 weeks.  Could the yeast be settling out and not
>in sufficient enough quantity for bottling?  Any comments would be
>appreciated.

Let some bottles sit for an extra month or two, and if the carbonation
level increases quite a bit (it probably will), this is your problem.
I usually let my ales sit for at least 2 weeks (typically 4) after
all apparrent fermentation has stopped, and just let time solve the
slow carbonation problem.  usually (at room temp, with something
weaker than a barley wine), the beer is undercarbonated for around
6 weeks, and then everything just seems to kick in all at once.

Recently (since reading "Belgian Ale") I've taken to adding the extra
yeast at bottling time, and it seems to work pretty well - my last
batch was carbonated after a week in the bottle.
Just rehydrate a packet of yeast, and throw it in the beer when you prime.
(I haven't tried this with liquid yeast, and it prpbably wouldn't be
too keen to make a sweet beer and then using a super-attenuative yeast
to prime with)  You can also try letting the yeast ferment the priming
sugar a little to get it going and then bottle, but you have to either
use malt extract or add yeast nutrient to get the yeast started.
You also risk letting too much of the stuff ferment away,
and under-priming/carbonating the beer.  Remember - adding extra yeast
at bottle time reduces the amount of time necessary to fully carbonate,
but does not affect the final carbonation level.  (i.e. cut back
to <= 3/4 cup sugar when you try this)

- ---------------------

> Glenn Anderson was looking for home brew suppliers in the Chicago area.

The Weinkeller Liquor store on E. Roosevelt Rd. in Berwyn carries a small
selection of homebrewing supplies, and big selection of imports (last
time I visited I picked up a few bottles of Traquiar House - what's
the proper way to pronounce "Traquiar"?), plus you can get tanked on 
some pretty fine suds in the microbrewery next door...

bb


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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 11:50:51 EDT
From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)
Subject: yeast at bottling time

~v

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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 10:08:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul dArmond <paulf at henson.cc.wwu.edu>
Subject: Yeast at bottling time

Like Bob and Chris, I had what seemed like excessively long conditioning
times in the bottle.  I'm now adding 1/4 tsp. of dry yeast to 5 gal at
bottling time and shake the bottles every other day to keep the yeast
suspended during the first 4 days after bottling.  I was waiting 3-5 weeks
for a reasonable level of carbonation, now there is some fizz at one week
and good carbonation at two.  I've had the same problem with root beer and
ginger ale, but keeping the yeast suspended for the first several days
seems to do it.  One of the guys at The Cellar in Seattle suggested laying
the bottles on their side to expose more bottom area for the yeast to
spread out on. 

I don't know what the cause of the slow conditioning was.  Most of my
beers are ales with OG ~1.06-7.  We have very hard water with high levels
of manganese.  I frequently use 1 T. of polyclar in the secondary after
the yeast has settled.  The amount of time in the secondary has varied
without a noticible relation to conditioning time, though I've always
waited for the yeast to drop in the secondary before bottling.  It's a
mystery to me... 



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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 9:08:50 EDT
From: chuck at synchro.com (Chuck Cox)
Subject: Re: Coffeemaker Mashtun

Chris Shenton sez...
> 
> Chuck Cox <chuck at synchro.com> effuses:
> 
>     I just bought a cafeteria coffeemaker for $1.
> 
> The setup sounds great -- any suggestions how I can acquire one :-)
> or was this just a random event? :-(

I bought mine at a surplus audio equipment auction B-) I think $1 is an
unusually good deal, but you might find a reasonable deal if you check
out business equipment auctions in your area.  I saw one of those tall
party-sized coffee makers go for $10 at another auction, so there
doesn't seem to be much demand for used coffee urns.  I suspect every
time a business goes under, or expands, a used coffee urn enters the
market. 

One caveat: you may have to rewire the urn to work with your household
electricity.  The unit I bought is rated at 10kW (120v single-phase),
thats 80 amps, my entire apartment is limited to 50 amps.  I will simply
disconnect 3 of the 4 heating elements, and plug it into the 30 amp
stove circuit.  This thing must heat up *FAST* when all 4 elements are
dumping ~8 kW into the ~10 gallon water bath.  Since I don't want to
boil the water, I think a single ~2 kW element will work fine. 

- -- 
Chuck Cox <chuck at synchro.com>
In de hemel is geen bier, daarom drinken wij het hier.

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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 13:09:00 MDT
From: Jeff Benjamin <benji at hpfcbug.fc.hp.com>
Subject: Re: sparging manifold, Kolsch

"Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu> says of his new
copper sparge manifold:

> It worked.  Sort of.  I had to "back flush" it with air (translation:
> blow into the end of the siphon tube) to clear husks (I assume) out of
> the slots to really get it started.  It took over an hour to drain 4
> gallons of first runnings from the cooler

My manifold is similar to yours, except perhaps the slots we cut with
a hacksaw didn't go through quite as far (maybe 1/4 - 1/3 the tube
diameter).  I suspect that the grind of your grain is at fault;  I've
got a Marcato roller mill, and usually can drain as fast as if there
were no grain at all.  Also, did you put the manifold in *before* you
started mashing?  I can easily see it getting clogged if you try to
push it through all that wet grain.

waflowers at quantum.qnx.com (Bill Flowers) asks me to share my partner's
Kolsch recipe.  Here it is:

	Fat Wanda's Kolsch Klone

	7     lb pale malt      1-3/4 oz Hallertau (5.0%)
	1-1/2 lb Vienna malt    1/2   oz Tettnang (4.5%)
	3/4   lb wheat malt     Wyeast European Ale

	O.G. 1.042, F.G. 1.009  Yield: 5.8 gallons

To keep hop aroma low, the last addition of hops should come no later
than 20 minutes before the end of the boil.  The trick to this beer is
to cold condition it.  After 4 days primary and 4 days secondary
fermentation at ale temps (~65F), rack again and cold condition at 40F
for 12 days.  Then prime and bottle as usual.  This beer should be very
pale, and taste "clean" like a lager but with an ale's body and
fruitiness.  This beer took first prize in the "pale ale" category at
the local (Northern Colorado) AugustFest competition this year.
It's not *exactly* like drinking in Cologne, but darn close.

- --
Jeff Benjamin                               benji at hpfcla.fc.hp.com
Hewlett Packard Co.                         Fort Collins, Colorado	
"Midnight shakes the memory as a madman shakes a dead geranium."
					    - T.S. Eliot

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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 10:28:11 PDT
From: tahoma!dgs1300 at bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Don Scheidt)
Subject: Hamburg 'n' Bayreuth

In HOMEBREW Digest #952, Karl F. Bloss responds:
>In HOMEBREW Digest #951, Don Scheidt asks:
>
>>Where are you going in Germany??  There are more than 1100 brewers, and
>>they collectively produce over 4500 different beers!
>
>Point taken!  Specifically, I will be in Hamburg, but I'll be mobile 
>within that general vicinity.  I do have a friend there who knows his
>pubs, but if anyone knows of any great brewpubs that are not to be missed,
>drop me a line.

Specifically to Karl - please e-mail me; I get a bounce when I try to
e-mail to you.  I'll figure out the return-path (with luck) and let you
know what I've learned about the German Northland.

In general - for those who wish to know - the German Northland (the state
of Schleswig-Holstein, the city-states of Hamburg and Bremen, and the state
of Niedersachsen, or Lower Saxony) has the lightest distribution of brewers
in Germany, as compared to the Big Three states - Bavaria is at the top (by
far!), then Baden-Wuerttemberg, then Nordrhein-Westfalen (North Rhine -
Westfalia).  The bulk of beer produced in the German North is 'pils', and
there are some pretty good ones, and one that is, indeed, excellent, a
world classic, almost on a par with Pilsner Urquell.  Good pilsners include
Flensburger, the Astra beer from Bavaria Brauerei (a Hamburg brewery - not
from the *state* of Bavaria!), and a few others.  Beck's is, of course,
pretty common, being brewed just down the highway in Bremen; Holstein is
ultra-common (the biggest Hamburg brewery, if I remember correctly).  The
pils to beat, though, is Jever, the hoppiest and most flavourful beer
produced up there, in the town of the same name.  There is also a Haus-
brauerei (brewpub) in Hamburg - the name escapes me at the moment, but I
think it's known for its unfiltered pils.

And In HOMEBREW Digest #952, Mike McNally sez:
>A chance to correct Darryl Richman can't be passed up!  Bayreuth is
>east of Munich, not west.  It is the home of Maisel as well as the
>huge opera house constructed by Ludwig II (I think) for Wagnerian
>productions.
>
>(Now watch somebody correct me ... )

Everybody watching ;-)?  I already e-mailed the original poster (Brian
Cole), and he reported getting a veritable flood of postings on this
subject (as well as a burning desire to visit Franconia).  Bayreuth is
*not* west of Munich (sorry Darryl) and it ain't east of 'the world-city
with a heart' either (sorry Mike).  It's quite a way from Munich, actually,
a good 2-and-a-half-hour ride on the Autobahn, even at German speeds (well,
you could do it in under 2 hours if the traffic is light, there's no fog,
etc, but optimum conditions like this are pretty rare in that part of
Germany).  In fact, it is well *north* of Munich, actually a bit north-east
of Nuernburg; if you drive from Munich to, say, Berlin, Bayreuth is just a
bit south of the half-way point on the Autobahn.  And yes, Bayreuth is the
home of Gebr. Maisel Bierbrauerei, home of Germany's 'steam beer' (Dampf-
bier) and several other styles, all done quite nicely.  And also a mecca
for Wagner fans...

Now here's an idea a-brewin'.  How many of you brewers and beer-lovers in
general would be interested in the idea of some kind of semi-organised tour
to some of these German shrines to brewing?  I've already done one holiday
in Franconia, and wouldn't mind being the instigator for another one...
Just a thought for now, although if there was enough interest (and people
with the cash, time, and wherewithal for a German holiday), I could put
together a trip that would, once and for all, set in the minds of at least
fifteen or twenty participants, just what is meant by Germany, history, and
most of all... beer!

PROST!
- -- 
Don                             | Verbosity leads to unclear, inarticulate
dgs1300 at tahoma                  | things.
 ..!uunet!bcstec!tahoma!dgs1300 |       -- Vice President Dan Quayle

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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 15:57:00 CDT
From: raudins at galt.b11.ingr.com (glenn raudins)
Subject: Dark Malt Extract Brew


In Issue 952:
	Bob Konigsberg asked about all Dark Malt Extract Brews.

	Actually, my third batch ever was an all Dark Extract batch.
	One of my best extract batches ever.  If I remember correctly
	it contained the following:

	3.3 lbs M&F Dark UnHopped
	3.3 lbs M&F Dark Hopped
	3   lbs	Dark DME (might have been 1.5 lbs)
	1 oz Hallertaur (60 min)
	1 oz Hallertaur (2 min)
	2   pkgs EDME dry yeast.

	Sorry, I don't have my recipes here.  It was good enough that I
	had a roommate learn to brew to make it!  It came out as a 
	heavier American Dark.  

DeClerck's Textbook of Brewing:

	If anyone would like to part with their copies (v1 and/or v2) 
	please contact me by mail and we can work something out.
	(Or if anyone knows where I might get the books.)

Glenn Raudins
raudins at b11.b11.ingr.com



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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 16:27:16 CDT
From: Jacob Galley <gal2 at midway.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Re: Labels, Chiller hose

> Previously I've read here in the HBD to use milk, but I tried that with
> little success - The labels seem to jump off of the bottles after a week.
>  
> Thanks for the tip Mitch,
>  -Al 

I have found that milk works to varying degrees, depending on the type
of paper (and maybe the type of milk, % fat). I have never had a
problem when I add a bit < 1/8 t of conrstarch to the milk and mix it
in with my finger. Also, you'll probably never get a label to stick to
a bottle with condensation on it, using this method.

Let me try my previous question again. Maybe my mailer is in a good
mood today. I am planning on "building" a bath chiller by syphoning
the hot wort through my bathtub full of ice-water. Should I not use
standard "food grade" plastic tubing for this? How much insulation am
I fighting if I do? How much does copper tubing cost anyway?

Thanks,
Jake.

Reinheitsgebot <-- "Keep your laws off my beer!" <-- gal2 at midway.uchicago.edu

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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 13:03 CDT
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: YEAST CULTURE

 
 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling
 
 I have been asked by several people about the need for a pressure cooker to 
 sterilize equipment and media for yeast culture.
 
 Like so many things in this hobby, there are "correct" ways and ways that 
 work just as well or at least well enough for our purposes and I think this 
 is one of them.
 
 I really missed the target if people are turned off to culturing because they 
 do not have or wish to purchase a pressure cooker.
 
 Rather than not do it, I would suggest using any large pot with a decent lid 
 and about a half inch of water.  Put the petri dishes or slants on or in a 
 cup or some such support to keep them out of the water and steam them for 
 twice the time recommended for a pressure cooker, i.e. 30 mins instead of 15.
 
 My guess is that no one will ever know the difference.
 
 The important thing is DO IT.  There is no longer any excuse for using 
 contaminated or recycled yeast.  
 
 >From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu>
 
 >It worked.  Sort of. Before I use it again, I'm going to widen the slots.  
 Since it siphons 7 gallons of plain water from the cooler in about 20
 minutes, I am assuming that the slowness is at least partly due to the
 slots getting blocked by husks or grain particles. 
 
 I think you are fighting the process that you so laboriously set out to 
 create.  The whole object is to create a filter, which by definition, will 
 drain much slower than water through an empty cooler.  You need patience not 
 bigger holes or an.... no, I won't do it:)  this time.
 
 >Any other suggestions or comments (preferably based on experience with
 a similar setup) would be appreciated.  (Jack, I know about your
 system, but I want to try to collect over the entire bottom of
 the cooler, especially as it is longer than it is deep.)
 
 That is sort like trying to walk with two left shoes just because you happen 
 to have two left shoes.
 
 >From: "Ron Fresne"  <FRESNE at washpost.wdc.sri.com>
 >Subject:  Re:siphoning
 
 >I never liked the idea of siphoning twice. So, as a primary, I use a
 7 gal. plastic bucket with a spigot installed about .5-1" from the
 bottom.  I place a board or some magazines under the  spout during
 fermentation so that most of the sediment collects away from the
 outlet, and then when the kraeusen falls and I'm ready to rack, I tip
 the bucket forward slowly, attach a hose to the spigot, and open the
 valve. (Just as a precaution to keep creatures out of the spigot, I
 cover it with plastic wrap or a sterile plastic baby bottle liner--I
 have lots of these--until racking.) 
 
 Another precaution you may not have thought of is to be sure that the 
 connection between spigot and hose is tight.  The smallest leak will provide 
 a stream of air that will nicely oxygenate your beer at exactly the wrong 
 point in the process.
 
 Since buying a new 16 gal brew kettle, I now use my ten gal for fermenting.  
 It has one of those unmentionable things on the bottom and just makes brewing 
 that much more easy.  One less time to mess with a syphon.  You learned 
 faster that most of us.
 
 js

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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 21:57:12 EDT
From: hpfcla.fc.hp.com!digger!tcm
Subject: Yeast and the nature of things

A lot has been recently said about how the list used to be and I think that
in many ways the list has certainly changed. It would be too simplistic to
say that it is better or worse, it is different, enjoy it as it is. I for
one miss messages from Cher Feinstein, even though I had no personal
interest in mead, but her absence from the list ( and the world :-( ) are
facts of life. 

It is inevitable that a forum such as this will introduce opinions that not
everyone agrees with but we are free to pick and choose those we agree with
and those we don't. I think the number and variety of textbooks on the
subject is ample proof that even the "experts" don't always agree. If
nothing else, this forum offers everyone a chance to discover tools and
techniques they may never have found out on their own. If something works,
tell us about it. If you see something here and it doesn't work, tell us
about it too, but center your criticism around the thing, not the person
who provided it. They will know, so will you, and others will be spared the
embarassment of watching you quarrel.

Now about the yeast. I posted a query awhile ago about dried yeast
alternatives to Whitbread Ale, in light of this not being available
anymore. Alas, no one had any help for me. Then this week, Great
Fermentations' "Beverage People News" had a short piece on this and offered
either Wyeast #1098 (the Whitbread yeast in liquid form) or "Nottingham"
from Lallemand (a dry variety) as an alternative. Does anyone have
experience with Lallemand's products? I use dry yeast because my brewing
often occurs with little notice and liquid cultures require more
preparation than I can give. 

Tom

- -----
{rit,tropix,ur-valhalla}!moscom!digger!tcm
DoD #1957 (BMW K75s) BMWMOA #59113

"Buying bigger bullwhips and going to war are known to increase 
productivity but are generally thought to have undesirable effects."
 - Michael Swain

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Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 10:00:53 edt
From: michael at frank.polymer.uakron.edu (Micheal Yandrasits)
Subject: re: siphon woes, an easy solution



I think I have an easy solution to the "siphoning woes".  When I siphon
using a typical hard-white-platic-rod-with-a-red-cap-and-flexible-hose
a small bubble forms at the junction of the two hoses, just past the 
bend,  and will grow as the turbulence causes CO2 to be released. 
My solution is to pinch the hose as close to the junction point as possible
then release.  This causes the bubble to be carried with the beer all the 
way out the other end.  It does not reform.  I've siphoned brew at its most
active stages of fermentation (usually to a larger carboy) with no trouble.
It's counter-intuitive but it works.


Mike   



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Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 10:05 EST
From: Morris at drew.drew.edu, David R <DMORRIS at drew.drew.edu>
Subject: First posting



                                        Date:     22-Aug-1992 09:46am EST
                                        From:     Morris, David R
                                                  DMORRIS
                                        Dept:     
                                        Tel No:   (201)-408-4816

TO:  Remote INTERNET Address              ( _IN%HOMEBREW at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM )


Subject: First posting

This is my first time posting to this digest and I hope no one will mind if 
I ask some beginner's questions.

I was recently introduced to homebrewing and haven't been able to stop 
thinking about whether it would be something I would enjoy.  So I'm 
determined to give it a go.  Thus, I'm posting here to ask about how to get 
started in homebrewing.

First, I suppose I need to begin by getting the addresses of several 
homebrew catalogues.  Would someone recommend one or two?  I really don't 
think there's a homebrew grocer in my area (I've already checked the phone 
book).  I reside in Madison, New Jersey.

Second, I realize that there is no single "correct" way to brew beer as 
there are infinate ways to brew and even more recipies.  Nevertheless, I am 
hoping for some suggestions on how to get started.  Please send me some 
suggestions either in the digest or privately.  I should say that I'm a 
graduate student with few funds.  I live in married graduate housing which 
means my amount of space is limited.  What about a small starter kit?

For those interested, I would gladly provide my own hot salsa recipe (not in 
the digest, of course) in exchange for a good beginner's beer recipe.  I 
can see it now--spending a weekend day concocting my salsa and brewing 
beer.  Talk about healing!  Incidentally, I've heard that beer is among the 
few beverages and foods which actually help counter the effects of hot 
peppers.

Any feedback you have is appreciated.

David-----DMORRIS at DREW.BITNET  dmorris at drew.drew.edu

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Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 15:48:20 -0600
From: klumpp at casbah.acns.nwu.edu (David Klumpp)
Subject: more hydrometer woes

I have noticed a different hydrometer phenomenon: when I measure density
after racking to secondary and follow density progress daily, I find the
density initially INCREASES after racking!!!  Typically, sg increases ca.
 .008 within a couple days of racking, but then the level decreases as
expected until fermentation is complete.  I noticed this bizarre phenomenon
during my very first batch and have consistently observed this for every
batch thereafter (I'm currently working on batch #8).  However, each of
these batches have yielded excellent product as judged by myself and
others, so I've learned to relax anyway.  All of my brews have used 4-7lbs
DME, Munton&Fison dry, Wyeast 1098 or Sierra Nevada Pale Ale yeast, and
various adjunct grains.  Here are the precautions I take to make sure I get
accurate readings:

        1. All reading are corrected to 60deg (using (X-60F)x.00025)
        2. Temps are measured in the hydrom vial -- not the fermentor
        3. The hydrom is tapped to release any clinging bubbles
        4. The hydrom is pushed down several times and a reading taken
           each time the hydrom becomes stationary
        5. The hydrom is not rinsed in H2O of extreme temps prior to use
        6. The Hydrom reads 1.000+/-.002 in H2O

If anyone has any ideas, please post or e-mail.  Like I said, I've learned
not to worry about this strange behavior.

                                Thanks,

                                        Dave

David Klumpp
Dept of Biochemistry, Molecular Biology and Cell Biology
Northwestern U.
klumpp at casbah.acns.nwu.edu
(708) 491-8358 lab
(708) 491-5211 fax


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Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 16:56:00 EDT
From: Arthur Delano <ajd at itl.itd.umich.edu>
Subject: Bud keg setup help wanted


Due to a combination of patience and serendipity, i now have an
Anheuser-Busch keg and CO2 canister (for a net cost of $20!).

I don't have any fittings, and before i buy any, i would like
advice on what i need to get.  While soda kegs seem to be
common currency among homebrewers, i don't have one and i assume
that the fittings are different.

So...
  (1) What is the minimum easily-usable setup?
  (2) What special tools, if any, are going to be necessary?
  (3) From which vendor ought i get the remaining equipment?
      I already receive the Superior Products catalogue.

AjD
the keg is 7.5 gallons, so i shan't be making large batches for
a while yet.

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #954, 08/25/92