FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  converting old water heaters for cooking brew (John Fitzgerald)
  change of address (CSGARDNER)
  Extract Brewing - Camping Stoves (Joe Freeland)
  Reducing sugar? ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Wyeast 2308 from Micah Millspaw (BOB JONES)
  Papazian's Propensity Pilsner Lager (John Adams)
  "Right equipment" and yeast (jim busch)
  mashing (&more) (Galloway M D)
  Not-a-brewpub-but-well-worth-a-visit near SF (Mark Hurwitz)
  Micah's Mead (ALTENBACH)
  Micah's Mead P.S. (ALTENBACH)
  fast fermentation (Chris Lietzke - Nickel's Lab  at  UCR (714) 787-3884)
  Re: Is a Grain Mill Necessary? (Douglas DeMers)
  Addition to adjunct post (Glenn Tinseth)
  1007 head (Russ Gelinas)
  Free Beer (Richard Goldstein)
  Re: really low O.G. question (korz)
  uh...oops (The Ice-9-man Cometh)
  hops (JLIDDIL)
  Wyeast #2308 (florianb)
  George Washington Porter (mccamljv)
  RE: milling grain/preground malt (Paul dArmond)
  miller reserve (Brian Bliss)
  Re: WYEAST 1056 (John Stepp)
  sparge temperatures (Bryan Gros)
  Using Iodopher for sanitizing (SHERRILL_PAUL)
  hanging with the famous HBD crowd (Frank Tutzauer)
  Questions part II (Peter Nesbitt)
  Re: Coors (whg)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 16 Sep 92 17:14:00 PST
From: John Fitzgerald <johnf at ccgate.SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM>
Subject: converting old water heaters for cooking brew


I remember a long time ago (maybe a year or two) there was a thread 
covering the conversion of old water heaters to brew cookers.  I was 
wondering if somebody with one of those fancy hbd-searching-utilites-for-DOS
could check and see what issues covered this.  I have saved a lot of old
hbd issues, but have no intelligent way of searching through them.  And I
don't have ftp access to pick up a copy of the nifty searching programs 
mentioned recently.

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

John Fitzgerald
johnf at npg-sd.sandiego.ncr.com


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Date: 17 Sep 1992 09:02:53 -0500 (EST)
From: CSGARDNER at gallua.gallaudet.edu
Subject: change of address


Good Morning All!  I tried to send this directly to the list manager but 
apparently I haven't a clue as to how.  Sorry for the non-brewing content.

Please note my change of address as follows:

	change from:  CSGARDNER at GALLUA.BITNET
	
	  change to:  11CGARDNER at GALLUA.BITNET

This change is effective immediately.  Thank you!

Cherisse

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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 92 08:29:52 -0500
From: j_freela at hwking.cca.cr.rockwell.com (Joe Freeland)
Subject: Extract Brewing - Camping Stoves



   Reading about cookers and BTUs I just couldn't help post
an idea thats worked real well for me so far.  We have a camping
stove that I think puts out around 20000 BTUs.  It has two burners 
but only one is used.  I put this on a tool cart out in the garage
(the floor would work too I'm sure) and do my extract boil there.
This beats my electric stove by about 3 times as fast as far as heating goes.
I use a immersion chiller so the hose is convenient for chilling, etc.
The best thing is that a boil over causes no real harm, since
camping stoves are supposed to get dirty.  Of course, I have not had
one yet, go figure.

Joe

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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 92 09:47:54 EDT
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu>
Subject: Reducing sugar?

I started reading Belgian Ale last night, and came across a term in
the "profiles" that is not explained (as far as I can see) anywhere in
the book (yes, I looked in the glossary, but I can't remember if I
consulted the index, so be gentle if it's in there).  The term is
"Reducing sugar" (or sugars?), as in
	Reducing sugar (as maltose): 1-2.5%

What the heck is he talking about?

Yours in confusion,

=Spencer W. Thomas 		|  Info Tech and Networking, B1911 CFOB, 0704
   "Genome Informatician"	|  Univ of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 48109
Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu	|  313-747-2778, FAX 313-764-4133

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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1992 07:17 PDT
From: BOB JONES <BJONES at NOVAX.llnl.gov>
Subject: Wyeast 2308 from Micah Millspaw


Use of 2308 yeast


>After 205 ales, I've decided to brew my first lager, and yesterday
>I bought a packet of Wyeast Munich #2308.  I have no idea what
>temperatures to ferment and lager at.  Would those of you who have
>experience with this yeast please send me some advice?  Thanks.


	I got some tips on using this yeast from Steve Daniels and
they have worked well for me. It is nessesary to build up a very
large starter culture, at least a quart of slurry for five gallon
batches. Cool the wort down to 60F or cooler if possible, pitch the
yeast, then you will have to refrigerate to carboy of wort to get
the temp down to the 48-52F range as soon as possible. At this low
temp it will take at least 3 weeeks to ferment out. But it is worth
it, I've made my cleanest lagers in this manner.
                                         micah 9/15/92


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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 92 08:31:18 -0600
From: John Adams <j_adams at hpfcjca.sde.hp.com>
Subject: Papazian's Propensity Pilsner Lager

> Does anyone have any experience with the Propensity Pilsner Lager 
> recipe in Papazian's book?

I brewed this recipe with one exception, without the aid of a 
refrigerator I was only able to brew it as "stream".


> The recipe calls for "light" clover honey but I have been unable to 
> find anything labled as such.  Is this just a subjective reference 
> to color?

I used a light in color honey since this recipe intends to also be 
light in color as traditional pilsners. 

Most homebrew shops carry many of the higher quality brands as you can
find in the supermarket except they charge more.


> How does this recipe compare to Budvar?

Having never tried Budvar I cannot say but I was very pleased with the
results.  Mine had a great deal of the character of Pilsner Urquel but 
fruiter and full bodied as I would have expected from a steam.

As soon as I locate a old refrigerator I plan on redoing this recipe as 
a true lager.

John Adams

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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 92 10:52:44 EDT
From: jim busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: "Right equipment" and yeast

In the last HBD JS writes:

Clearly, the reason is not to save money.  I built my first mill because the
    ...
 I suspect that everyone who makes the plunge can supply his own reason but I
 would guess that the major reason is that it just makes brewing that much
 more fun to have all the right equipment.  Once a person decides to have the
 right equipment, the cost (within reason) is not all that important.

If this is the way jack feels, I suggest he invest (well spent money) in a 
stainless steel perforated sheet false bottom for his lauter tun.  These are
commercially available in 16 gauge thickness, I forget the hole size.  I got
mine in Portland for $50 and had a local shop spot weld legs on it.  This
screen with a bottom outlet will increase the yield per pound  significantly
over the double bucket method and I suspect the easy mash through a screen
method.  Of course, you will have to recirculate the runoff for 10-15 
minutes to clarify.  If your kettle is the same size as the lauter tun 
(mine is), you can also use this as a hop back in your kettle.  It even
supported the entire hop bed when I lifted it off the kettle bottom.

On another note, tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec) writes,

  What has worked well for me is this:  ferment for 3 to 4 weeks at
  48/50 degrees F.  When you sense that fermentation is dramatically
  slowing, which is evident both from the drop in krausen and the
  slowing of the fermentation lock, step the temperature up to 60 F
  to encourage diacetyl reduction and the completion of fermentation.

I would suspect that if it take 3-4 weeks to primary ferment a 1.050
lager at 48/50 F, you did not pitch enough yeast and/or oxygenate the
wort enough. Primary should be complete in less than 2 weeks at this
temp.  Also, I would reccommend a lower Diacetyl rest temp, I personnally
dont like to get my lagers this warm.  This is certainly a topic for
debate but I do a diacetyl rest at 42F prior to rduction to 31F.  Three
days works for me. I completely agree with the 48F primary temp.

On another note, "John Cotterill" <johnc at hprpcd.rose.hp.com> writes,

My notes are not good on this one, but.....  If your starting gravity
is 1.048, no problem.  If you get 8 points above this, Dave said that
the pitching rate should be doubled (I started with 16oz, so that means
a 32oz starter with my starting gravity of 1.058).  For every 8 points
above 1.056 double the rate again.

The rule of thumb is 12 million cells per ml.  This is good for a 1.048
(12 degree) wort.   For each increase of one degree, add a million cells.
Of course, you need to count cells to know this, but the idea is valid.
The point is to NOT double pitch per 2 degrees plato although this 
doesnt really hurt much, ie: yeast bite. A good rule of thumb is 1lb.
of slurry per BBl of wort.  Also, the recommendation to reareate is a
double edged sword: you have already created Ethanol and by adding O2,
you will oxidize Ethanol into nasty aldehydes (see Dr. Fix's book).  If
you get enough healthy cells growing, get them past the aerobic stage,
then pitch, you MAY get away with kick starting the batch without adding
O2.  I had a Barley wine go from 26 degrees to 12, then jump started it
with 200 grams of Narrangansett Ale yeast.  Finished at 5 degrees, with
no additonal O2!  

Someone asked about yeast culturing, email me and I can refer you to a
supplier.

Jim Busch





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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1992 10:42:28 -0400
From: mgx at solid.ssd.ornl.gov (Galloway M D)
Subject: mashing (&more)



I have been toying with the idea of going all grain but after reading Miller's
chapter on water in TCHoHB I am beginning to worry.  My water is quite similar 
to the example of 'London Water' that Miller uses near the end of the chapter:  
the alkalinity of my water will "doom" a pale mash due to the high bicarbonate 
level and the low calcium level (hence the inability to decarbonate by boiling).
My problem is that I am a little uncertain on the proper use of acids to 
acidify (acidulate?) the mash.  I have access to 88% lactic acid via my local 
homebrew shop.  What I think I should be doing is to use a dilute solution of 
lactic acid (Miller suggests 2 teaspoons of 88% lactic in 3 cups H2O) to adjust
the pH mash to an appropriate value (say 5.3).  What quantity of this dilute 
solution should I start with?  Is all this really necessary or am I just being 
a worry wort (sorry for the pun).  

As an aside, has any of you closet wine makers out there had any experience 
with wine grape juice supplied in 'aseptic, nitrogen purged bags'.  What is the 
shelf life of one of these creatures.  Also, never having actually made wine, 
is there enough head space in a 6.5gal carboy to conduct primary fermentation 
of 5-6 gal of grape juice?

Thanks in advance!

Micheal
mgx at soild.ssd.ornl.gov

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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 92 09:01:22 PDT
From: Mark Hurwitz <markh at ssl.Berkeley.Edu>
Subject: Not-a-brewpub-but-well-worth-a-visit near SF



	For the visitor seeking microbreweries in the San Francisco
Bay Area: Hop on the BART.  Ride to the Rockridge station.  
Exit the station, walk about 6 blocks north on College Ave.  On the 
right hand side you will find Barclay's, a relatively new establishment
with about 15 beers on tap at all times, mostly the products of local 
microbreweries.  The food is good too.  Nice place to sample a wide range 
of products.

	(And speaking of recommendations, I give 5 stars to the Sudwerk,
a brewpub in Davis, CA, just off I-5 between SF and Sacramento.  Beers
brewed in the German style, and served in suitably enormous mugs.  By far
the best lager, pils, and wheat beer I've found this side of Muenchen...)

 -Mark

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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1992 10:16 PDT
From: ALTENBACH at CHERRY.llnl.gov
Subject: Micah's Mead

In HBD 970 Micah made a comment concerning his mead and the AHA National
Competition, which was further discussed in HBD 971 by Geoff Reeves. Micah
did not state the facts behind his comment, so Geoff got the feeling a
contest "fix" was being insinuated. Here are the facts. Immediately after the
best of show (3rd round) mead judging in Milwaukee, I had a conversation
with one of the judges, Brian North, who told me that there had been a 
"problem" with the mead judging from the second round. We didn't get into the
details of what the problem was. However, the 3rd round judges took the top
3 meads from each class and REJUDGED them all, instead of just picking
between the 1st place winners to decide best of show. Brian told me that this
resulted in a switch of the 1st and 3rd place meads in one of the classes.
Examination of the returned scoresheests shows that Micah's mead was judged
1st in his class by the second round panel, and his scores were higher than
those given to Byron's mead. These two were the ones switched between 1st
and 3rd places by the 3rd round panel. Note, no further written comments
or scores were given in the 3rd round. So Micah has a 1st place score and
a third place ribbon, and no explanation as to why this happened. It would
be nice to hear first hand from the judges involved and the competition
director, to understand their reasons for these actions. BTW, I'm a 
Certified Judge, and judged at the 1st round in SF and the 2nd round in
Milwaukee (in beer classes) and have never come across any inappropriate
judging procedures in national or large regional competitions.

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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1992 10:23 PDT
From: ALTENBACH at CHERRY.llnl.gov
Subject: Micah's Mead P.S.

Sorry, I forgot to leave my clever closing signature on the mead judging 
report.    
         Tom Altenbach,   Tracy CA

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Date:    Thu, 17 Sep 1992 10:25:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: LIETZKE at UCRPH0.UCR.EDU (Chris Lietzke - Nickel's Lab  at  UCR (714) 787-3884)
Subject: fast fermentation

question:

I brewed my first batch of ale last saturday, I got it into the fermenter 
about 1 pm and it was bubbling away by 6pm. By the next morning it had a 
good foam head approximately 2 inches high and was just looking good.
By the early evening it slowed way down and by monday morning the foam was 
gone and the bubbling had ceased. It has been settling since then. I 
pitched the yeast at 80 deg f and kept it at about 70 deg f throughout the 
fermenting process. Now to my question, everything I have read says that 
the fermenting takes 5-7 days, mine took two, maximum. I am kind of nervous 
to open it up until settling finishes, say saturday to measure the gravity.
Should I be concerned with the "fast" fermentation?

Chris

lietzke at ucrph0.ucr.edu


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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 92 10:38 PDT
From: dougd at uts.amdahl.com (Douglas DeMers)
Subject: Re: Is a Grain Mill Necessary?

In HBD #969:

>	I'm still an extract brewer but my grain brewing friends purchase their
>grain from brewpubs ALREADY CRACKED.  Most U.S. brewpubs buy their grain
>ALREADY CRACKED!

I'm assuming you have the facts and figures to back up this statement.
IMO, the additional space and equipment necessary to crack the grains
is inconsequential compared to the benefits of having a fresher
product.  I would suspect that once the grain is cracked, the malt
begins to lose its freshness at an accelerated rate.  Who knows how
long that cracked grain has sat around?  They don't nitrogen flush the
bags once they crack the grain, do they?  It is true that the effects
due to the cracked grain "spoiling" (oxidizing) will probably be masked
by other flaws in the brewing process - such as the rampant infection
problem that many of the brewpubs seem to have.

Guess I need to take some tours of more brewpubs to find out what their
grain-cracking process is.  Purely in the interest of science, of
course! :-)  The one brewpub I _have_ toured was in Munich (yes, I'm
working on my notes and will post when done!) and the cracking and
de-flouring was done in the same room in the basement in which the bags
of malt were stored.  No big deal.

>                  The reason is simple- most brewpubs are relatively small and
>if they cracked their own grain in a brewing or food area, flour would make a
>MESS of the place!  And you can bet that the 100# bags of grain the brewpubs
>get are cracked CORRECTLY for the specific type of grain.

I'd expect they are 50# bags of grain.  They might be 50 KILO (110#)
bags in Europe - that's what the Belgian Malts (which have had so much
press) come in.  [BTW- anyone in the South Bay (San Jose, CA) want to
split a bag or two of the Belgian Malt?  e-mail me.     -dougd]
- -- 
Douglas DeMers,      | (408-746-8546) | dougd at uts.amdahl.com
Amdahl Corporation   |                | {sun,uunet}!amdahl!dougd
  [It should be obvious that the opinions above are mine, not Amdahl's.]
  [               Amdahl makes computers, not beer.                    ]

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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 92 10:49:48 PDT
From: tinsethg at ucs.orst.edu (Glenn Tinseth)
Subject: Addition to adjunct post

In my post yesterday about which adjuncts need mashing, I neglected
to mention additional important info (thanks Jim). There are a few
different forms of common grains which can be divided into two
groups: those that need precooking, and those that have been cooked
already. Remember-both groups need to be mashed!

The important factor here is whether the starch is easy for the
enzymes to get to. Any grain that has been precooked e.g. flakes,
puffs, what have you, has its starch already gelatinized and can be
added to the mash as you get it from the store. Raw grains like corn, 
rice, whole or crushed oats, need to be cooked in order to gelatinize
their starches. The minimum cooking temp varies with the grain used;
I think Papazian has a chart on this. The cooked grain is then added
to the mash. 

Malted adjuncts don't need precooking and are added directly to the mash.

Hope that's all,

Glenn

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Date:    Thu, 17 Sep 1992 13:59:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: 1007 head

     Wyeast 1007 (German Ale) makes for a great brew.  It makes a terrific
thick krausen in the primary.  Unfortunately, this didn't translate into
a terrific thick head on the final beer, at least not in the last 2 batches I 
made with it.  Both batches were racked to secondary after the primary krausen 
was well gone, both were (mostly) clear going into the keg, and both would
not hold a head for more than 1 minute after conditioning in the keg.  But,
both brews were very clean and tasty, and they didn't last much more than
1 minute in the glass anyway.(!)

    Obviously, lack of head could be caused by any number of other reasons,
but here's 2 data points that say that the thick 1007 krausen does not
necessarily lead to a thick head.  FWIW, I've had no head stability problems
with previous similar batches fermented with other yeasts such as 1056 or 
Whitbread dry.

Russ

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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 92 10:58:48 PDT
From: Richard.Goldstein at EBay.Sun.COM (Richard Goldstein)
Subject: Free Beer

Geez, I hate using such lame and deceitful tactics to get your attention.

I got absolutely no response to my question about kraeusen
characteristics and head retention. So, I am going to state this in an
inflammatory manner and hope for the best :).

OBVIOUSLY the larger and thicker and richer and creamier the kraeusen
during primary fermentation, the larger and thicker and richer and
creamier and longer lasting will be the head on your beer after
priming. This relationship MUST be true. I DARE someone to give me
examples/experiences to the contrary (or, uh, to support it).

And I still want to hear anyone's experiences with Wyeast #1007 (German
Ale); someone out there must have tried it.

Rich Goldstein richardg at cheesewiz.sun.com

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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 92 12:59 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Re: really low O.G. question

James writes:
>Woolypate Christmas '92
>
>Steep in 1 1/2 gal water at 155 degF for 30 min:  1 lb 10 degL crystal
>  malt, 1/4 lb chocolate malt, 1/4 lb cara-pils, 1/4 lb flaked barley
>Add 6 lb Breiss pale extract, 6.6 AAU Fuggles, 1 cup blackstrap molasses,
>  6 oz. diced/peeled ginger; boil 45 min.
>During last 10 min. of boil, add:  10 1" cinnamon stix, 15 cracked
>  cardamom pods, 1 tsp nutmeg, 12 cracked allspice, zest of 4 oranges
>Cool, add to carboy to make 5 gal, and pitch Wyeast Irish Ale at 78 degF.
>Future:  maybe dryhop with 1/2 oz Saaz if I feel like it.
>
>However.  Upon measuring O.G. of this mixture, it read only 1.020!  (yes,
>I remembered the temperature conversion.)

First of all, that's a lot of ginger!  I used 2 ounces fresh, peeled, grated
in last year's X-mas brew and it was just about right.  The 10 minute boil
of all the spices is probably boiling-off a lot of their goodness --  I
suggest just plunking them into the wort after turning off the heat and
leaving them there untill you cool and are ready to go to the fermenter.

Now, back to your question.  Either you do have a very sick hydrometer, or
(more likely) as John D. recently posted in the Brewer's Forum, you did
not mix your hot wort well enough with your cool water.  If the wort at
the top of the carboy feels cooler (or warmer) than the wort at the bottom,
then you haven't mixed it enough.  The heavy wort will just sit there in
the bottom and any samples you take from the top can be off by a lot!

Notice that also, as you say, some malt extracts are quite thin.  Although
I haven't used it in a batch *by itself*, but although Alexander's Sun Country
Extract is very light, it doesn't add a lot of points to your wort -- I
believe only about 28 or 29 points/lb/gal (i.e. 1 lb of extract in 1 gallon
will give you 1.028 or 1.029 wort).

Al.

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Date:    Thu, 17 Sep 1992 13:34:46 -0500 (CDT)
From: SMITH at EPVAX.MSFC.NASA.GOV (The Ice-9-man Cometh)
Subject: uh...oops

fellow brewers:

It has been brought to my attention that my last post was pretty insulting
to the supplier who sold me my Breiss extract (who reads the HBD).  I'd
like to apologize to them for any aspersions on their character; I was just
listing all the possibilities I could think of for low o.g. without regard
to how silly they were.  So I'll come out and say that the supplier
does not stand accused of fooling with their stock; I'm quite
satisfied with my order from them.  Good prices, too.  So that's a
recommendation for those of you who figured out who the supplier is.  :)

Things I've learned from responses:

1)  Extract viscosity is not a good indicator of its extract potential;
    Breiss is indeed thinner than many extracts, but according to the
    supplier it consistently gives about 1.036 for 1 lb/1 gal.  Apparently,
    viscosity is partly a function of vacuum-chamber temperature when
    the extract is being concentrated; lower temperatures (which are
    better) give lower viscosity.

2)  My problem was probably failure to stir up the mixture in the carboy
    sufficiently before drawing off a sample (from the top).  O.g. for
    this batch is probably 1.040-1.050.

As always, feel free to email me shoehorns with which to extract my
feet from my mouth....


|    James W. Smith, NASA MSFC EP-53    |     SMITH at epvax.msfc.nasa.gov      |
|      "I'm looking California, and feeling Minnesota" -- Soundgarden        |
|     Neither NASA nor (!James) is responsible for what I say. Mea culpa.    | 


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Date:    Thu, 17 Sep 1992 12:46:19 -0700 (MST)
From: JLIDDIL at AZCC.Arizona.EDU
Subject: hops

Has anyone tried to grow hops in the desert.  I am in Tucson, Arizona.  Any
help would be appreciated.
___________________________________________________________________________
James D. Liddil                 Voice (602) 626-3958
Arizona Cancer Center
Tucson, AZ
===========================================================================


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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 92 12:40:32 PDT
From: florianb at chip.cna.tek.com
Subject: Wyeast #2308

Have I been asleep *that* long?

I normally ferment this yeast at 55 F in the primary, usually about
4-5 days. Then I rack it off into the secondary and let it come 
back to life--about 2 days. Then I start lowering the temperature
about 2 degrees every other day. Upon reaching 45 or so, I let it
completely bubble out. I then keg it and gradually lower the
temperature to 35. It stays at 35 for 4-6 months. I get super clean,
clear, brew with this one.

Florian


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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 92 16:24:33 -0400
From: mccamljv at ldpfi.dnet.dupont.com
Subject: George Washington Porter

Brew Brothers and Sisters,

	What a crazy summer, I have a three (3) month backlog of HBD's to
	catch up on. Anyway, I find that I now have a little time on my hands
	and would like to pose a few questions to the digest.

     1) Has anyone out there in net land ever had the priviledge of trying
	the George Washinton Porter brewed by the Samuel Adams Brewhouse in
	Philadelphia ??? This stuff is incredible. I think it is probably a
	little too sweet for the style, but I can't get enough of it. With 
	that in mind, does anybody have an approximate recipe. I suppose I
	could force myself to go there, drink a few pints, and try to pry
	it out of the brew master (I think I'll do that anyway) but if he
	is a true brew guru he probably wouldn't divulge the entire recipe
	to little old me. 

     2) I have a dunkelweizen that has been sitting in the primary for 
	about six months (looong story). Any hope of recovery??
	I am planning on bottling some of it and using the rest as an
	organic fertilizer. I'll keep you posted.

     3) I would like to use a touch of licorice in my next pale ale. I plan
	to use 1 1/2" in the last 15 minutes of the boil. I would wait for 
	advice and pointers from the net, but I'm brewing tonight. The info
	would do me and I'm sure others good though. Any pointers, hints, 
	tips etc...??? 


Yours in Brewing

Joel McCamley	- "Constanly Relaxing, Not Worrying, and Having a Homebrew"
		- "Help!! I've fallen and I can't reach my homebrew."



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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1992 12:53:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul dArmond <paulf at henson.cc.wwu.edu>
Subject: RE: milling grain/preground malt

Crushed malt that has absorbed moisture from the air is called "slack"
malt, or is said to have "become slack".  This is mentioned in two of my
old references from the 1800's.  The odd part is that there appears to
have been a controversy [some things never change] about whether slack
malt was preferred or not.  Some said yes, some said no.  If allowed to
become slack, the strike heat for mashing in can be very difficult to
predict.  The more slack [slacker?] the malt is, the higher a strike heat
[initial water temperature] is needed to hit the chosen mash-in temp. 
There is a brief discussion of this in _Brewing and Malting Science_, but
I didn't understand it... 

I wonder if the brewpub mentioned previously was trying to adjust the mash
temp?  What was the digest #?

As a sidelight to brewpubs crushing their own malt, it needn't take much
space and safety/insurance/codes needn't be a problem.  Twenty years ago,
I helped install a flour mill in the local organic food co-op.  Building
and codes gave us merry hell over explosion proof motors, switches,
lights, conduit connections, etc...  They had never approved a new mill
and were positive that a bunch of long-hairs would screw things up.  It
took a lot of hassle, but it was allowed by the zoning, so we got to do
it. 

We did a crackerjack job, including building a room within a room with
air-lock, and dust filters on the air. The whole area was only 8x8 feet,
so space and safe construction is no big deal.  That co-op mill, BTW, is
now the largest organic grain mill in the Pacific NW. It is bigger than
8x8 feet, though... 

Flour dust is MORE explosive than natural gas.  Natural gas isn't very
explosive, you have to get the fuel/air mix just right.  Propane, now
that's REAL explosive, it has a very wide explosive range.

The plus of having your own mill is that it's just one more variable you
get to control/goof up.  How much is that worth? -- Paul



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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 92 15:52:42 CDT
From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)
Subject: miller reserve

>    They start out saying "In 18something Frederick(?) Miller created an all
>barley draft beer and held it in reserve because he knew it was something
>special.  Now Miller is bringing it back in Miller Reserve All Barley Draft.
>It's an idea whose time has come around again" or something to that effect.
>So now they're taking credit for "reviving" beer made the way God intended.
>I'm sure this move has nothing to do with the continued decline in sales of
>the mega-brewers over the past few years.

But it still tastes like pisswater.  Which leads to 2 (or more) possibilities:

1) Miller is trying to get to the segment of the beer-drinking population
   which has never tried beer.  They drink Miller Reserve, and say
   "It's good, but it's not that much different", and promptly go back
   to drinking their regular beer.  When someone offers them what we
   consider a "real" beer, they turn up their noses and say "I've had
   an all-barley beer before and it's no big deal."

2) They started out with good intent, but the marketing anaylsts made them
   dilute the product to make it taste more like american ultra-light.

Anyway, they remembered to leave out the corn, but they forgot to
replace it with extra barley...

bb


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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 92 18:45:50 -0400
From: jxs58 at po.CWRU.Edu (John Stepp)
Subject: Re: WYEAST 1056



t'sup?

	I used 1056 for the first time in my last batch, an extract pale 
ale.  The fermentation went fine: firm yet steady for ~5 days then slowed.  
I dry hopped it at 7 days with 1 oz of Saaz plugs and let it go for another 
week, then bottled.  After 2 weeks in the bottle the carbonation is great, 
but the flavor was quite "watery".  After 3 weeks in the bottle, it has 
gotten better but it's still not what I aimed for.  I normally brew heavier 
beers, and have only recently switched to liquid yeast cultures.  My question 
is:  Is it "normal" to let this type of brew bottle-age longer than other, 
heavier brews?  There's plenty of malt in the recipe (at home unfort.) so
that's not the problem.  Thanks in advance for comments.

- --
Dave Stepp
Dept. of Molecular Biology and Microbiology
Case Western Reserve University
Cleveland, OH

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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 92 16:28:28 PDT
From: bgros at sensitivity.berkeley.edu (Bryan Gros)
Subject: sparge temperatures

I understand that too hot of sparge water is bad in that it extracts
tannins from the grain husks.

My uninsulated bucket loses a lot of heat though.  Especially with
some recirculation.  What is too low of a temperature?  What is the
problem with too low temperature sparges?

Also, is it possible to use distilled water to mash with and adjust
the ion concentrations? (assuming distilled water is 0 ppm of every-
thing).  Can you get the right levels of anything?  If so, it seems
this would be the easiest way to get "Munich water" or "London water".
Or "St. Louis Water".

                                    - Bryan

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Date: 17 Sep 92 14:14:00 +1700
From: SHERRILL_PAUL at Tandem.COM
Subject: Using Iodopher for sanitizing

- ------------   ORIGINAL ATTACHMENT   --------
SENT 09-17-92 FROM SHERRILL_PAUL  at CTS

Hi all,
   I bought a little bottle of the above and was told to use 1 TBS per
5 gallons and a 2 minute contact time.  Doe sthis sound right.  I
don't have a breakdown of the ingredients of the stuff with me but
if need be I'll bring them in.
Other questions:
    1. Should I rinse?  I have been only out of worry.  I was told to
       not rinse.

    2. Is this stuff ok for my plastic hoses?

    3. How long would a bucket of this diluted in water still hold
       it's magical cleaning powers?

pablo
sherrill_paul at tandem.com

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Date: 17 Sep 1992 22:23:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Frank Tutzauer <COMFRANK at ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu>
Subject: hanging with the famous HBD crowd

Got my latest Zymurgy today.  Gosh, I'm hanging out with a famous 
crowd here at the HBD.  Jack's MALTMILL got a good review, 
Charlie P. stole Kinney Baughman's sig file, and they printed Micah's
2nd place AHA barleywine recipe.  Also, George fix talks about sulfur
compounds (but we already knew he was famous...).  And I've only flipped 
through the magazine--so maybe there are more of us in this issue!

Good work, guys.

- --frank


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Date: Fri, 18 Sep 92 05:00 GMT
From: Peter Nesbitt <0005111312 at mcimail.com>
Subject: Questions part II

Homebrewers,

Thanks to all of you who resplied to my first set of questions.

Here are a few more while I anxiously await for my books to arrive and 
backissues of Zymurgy:

 - I'm having trouble finding true long-necks.  Should I absolutely not use
  twist off bottles?  I've asked almost every eating establishment in town,
  but they will not give up their returnables.

 - What is the purpose of a secondary fermentation tank.  My first batch
  uses this method, but doesn't require me to add anything, and doesn't 
  give a reason for doing this.

 - I am writing from MCI Mail, and tried to use the PUCC MailServer.  They
  have recently changed to allowing BITNET users only.  Is there another
  Server that I can use to access the HBD site through Mail FTP.  I do not
  have access to Telnet or FTP at this time.

 - I live in Suisun, CA.  North of the San Francisco Bay Area, near Fairfield,
  Vacaville, Vallejo.  Do any of you homebrewers live nearby?  Any homebrew
  clubs near me?

 - When my fermentation is nearing completion, does the yeast go into a dormant
  state or just die?

 - When the priming sugar is added at bottling time, does this "revive" the 
  yeast, or just cause some sort of chemical reaction to cause carbonation?


Thanks again for helping a new guy out!

pnesbitt at mcimail.com

Air Traffic Controller
Bay TRACON
Oakland, CA

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Date: Thu, 17 Sep 92 10:25:03 CDT
From: whg at tellabs.com
Subject: Re: Coors


>Don't bash them too hard until you've tried Coors Winterfest.


I agree Winterfest is a wonderful beer, I have this problem with
supporting facists (Adolph Coors that is) so you'll never catch
buying it again.

Walter Gude    ||   whg at tellabs.com

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #972, 09/18/92