HOMEBREW Digest #973 Mon 21 September 1992

Digest #972 Digest #974

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Questions part II (John DeCarlo)
  Reducing Sugars         (berthels)
  Keeping Warm ("Justin A. Aborn")
  longnecks'n'yeast (The Ice-9-man Cometh)
  Re: reducing sugars (pmiller)
  nice timimg, liquid yeast (Russ Gelinas)
  Bud ads (ZLPAJGN)
  re: keeping lauter buckets warm (mcnally)
  Reducing Sugars (STROUD)
  Wine Questions (Bob Konigsberg)
  draft pilsner urquell arrives in chicago! (Tony Babinec)
  Milling on-site (korz)
  re iodophor (JLIDDIL)
  Mill control (korz)
  Why crush your own grain? (Phillip Seitz)
  Answers (Richard Childers)
  preground vs pre-preground (chris campanelli)
  cider/mead forums (chris campanelli)
  Dallas Brewpubs? (Brian Bliss)
  Yield (George J Fix)
  Wyeast #1007 (whg)
  Questions about hop vines (Mark N. Davis)
  Chimay & banana update... (Todd Enders - WD0BCI)
  That Yummy Malt Flavor (Joseph Nathan Hall)
  Re: re premilling (slack vs strike temp) (Paul dArmond)
  Novice hop farmer's report (Ed Westemeier)
  Re: Apple Cider (Garrett Hildebrand)
  mass of DME (Robert Schultz)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Friday, 18 Sep 1992 08:52:24 EDT From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo) Subject: Questions part II >Date: Fri, 18 Sep 92 05:00 GMT >From: Peter Nesbitt <0005111312 at mcimail.com> >- I'm having trouble finding true long-necks. Should I >absolutely not use twist off bottles? I've asked almost every >eating establishment in town, but they will not give up their >returnables. Some people use twist-off bottles without problem. Still, I wouldn't unless I got desperate. Do you know anyone who drinks beer of the type that doesn't come in twist-offs? Like Sam Adams or Bud Dry? You could also consider using plastic soda bottles or American champagne bottles--you can usually get the latter from champagne brunches at restaurants. Not to mention the ever-favorite IBC root beer bottles. >- What is the purpose of a secondary fermentation tank. My >first batch uses this method, but doesn't require me to add >anything, and doesn't give a reason for doing this. Here are my favorite reasons: 1) Gets the fermenting beer off of the trub. I get a fair amount of dead yeast and other things at the bottom of my primary and I don't use blow-off. Thus, I want the beer off that quickly. 2) Gives the beer an extra settling or clearing, leading to much less sediment in the bottle than if you went directly from the primary to the bottling bucket (at least in my case). 3) Allows more flexibility in scheduling the bottling session. With small children and travel for work/vacation, I have often left beer in the secondary for months at a time before finding time to bottle. Since it isn't sitting on all that trub in the primary, it doesn't get hurt by this. >- I am writing from MCI Mail, and tried to use the PUCC >MailServer. They have recently changed to allowing BITNET users >only. Is there another Server that I can use to access the HBD >site through Mail FTP. I do not have access to Telnet or FTP at >this time. Have you tried the instructions that start every HBD? Here is a quote: Archives are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from listserv at sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a message to that address to receive listserver instructions.) >- When the priming sugar is added at bottling time, does this >"revive" the yeast, or just cause some sort of chemical reaction >to cause carbonation? I don't know the technical terms for what the little yeasties in your beer are doing when they aren't fermenting, but not all of them die, that's for sure. So when you add more fermentables, for example at bottling time, all the live yeasties start fermenting again happily. Of course they start giving off all that CO2 during this process, which will carbonate your beer under the right conditions. Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org) Fidonet: 1:109/131 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 92 09:00:21 EDT From: berthels at rnisd0.DNET.roche.com Subject: Reducing Sugars For those interested in the technical discription of the antiquated term "reducing sugar" read the textbook extract below, simply speaking it refers to a monosaccharide (glucose for example) rather than a di or polysaccharide >From "Principles of Biochemistry" by A.L. Lehninger Monosaccharides readily reduce such oxidizing agents as ferricyanide, Hydrogen peroxide, or cupric ion (Cu2+). In such reactions the sugar is oxidized atthe carbonyl group, and the oxidizing agent becomes reduced. (Remember that reducing agents are electron donors and oxidizing agents are electron acceptors.) Glucose and other sugars capable of reducing oxidizing agents are called reducing sugars. This property is useful in the analysis of sugars. By measuring the amount of an oxidizing agent that is reduced by a solution of a sugar, it is possible to estimate the concentration of the sugar. I hope this is helpful-S.J.Berthel Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 92 9:38:10 EDT From: "Justin A. Aborn" <jaborn at BBN.COM> Subject: Keeping Warm An old water heater for brewing! What a concept. Can you say "volume production". Unfortunately, they usually die by developing a leak. I saw a note about someone's lauter tun cooling too fast. I wrap an old insulite camping pad around my two bucket tun and clip it in place using clothes pins. You could use any insulating wrap though. I do a similar thing when I mash. After getting my brew pot up to conversion temperature, I set it on the floor on the aforementioned insulite pad and wrap an old electric blanket around it. The five gallons of liquid gold drops only about two degrees over two hours! Justin Brewer and Patriot Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1992 8:43:20 -0500 (CDT) From: SMITH at EPVAX.MSFC.NASA.GOV (The Ice-9-man Cometh) Subject: longnecks'n'yeast >From: Peter Nesbitt <0005111312 at mcimail.com> >Subject: Questions part II > - I'm having trouble finding true long-necks. Should I absolutely not use > twist off bottles? I've asked almost every eating establishment in town, > but they will not give up their returnables. I've never found a place that would just give me their bottles, but (at least in the states I've lived in) most places will sell you a case of longnecks for the deposit money ($1.10/case in AL). > - When my fermentation is nearing completion, does the yeast go into a dormant > state or just die? They go dormant. If you wait too long before priming you won't get carbonation, because once the yeast go dormant, they need things that finished beer lacks in order to wake back up. Carbonation is done by the yeasties that haven't gone dormant yet at bottling time; there are still a bunch of them in suspension even when the beer looks clear. | James W. Smith, NASA MSFC EP-53 | SMITH at epvax.msfc.nasa.gov | | "Come with us, we'll sail the Seas of Cheese!" -- Les.Claypool at Primus | | Neither NASA nor (!James) is responsible for what I say. Mea culpa. | Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 92 09:17:12 CDT From: pmiller at mmm.com Subject: Re: reducing sugars Spencer Thomas asks about reducing sugars: > I started reading Belgian Ale last night, and came across a term > in the "profiles" that is not explained (as far as I can see) > anywhere in the book [snip] The term is "Reducing sugar" (or > sugars?), as in > Reducing sugar (as maltose): 1-2.5% > What the heck is he talking about? Reducing sugars are the additives that are put into sweets to help people lose weight. I'm sure you've seen tabloids tout diets such as the "Ice Cream Diet" with claims like "eat all you want and still lose weight". Well, now you know how these diets work: reducing sugars. ;-) ;-) ;-) Phil Miller Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1992 10:25:23 -0400 (EDT) From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas) Subject: nice timimg, liquid yeast Hmmm, interesting placement of articles about Wyeast #1007 in the last digest, dontcha think? Someone mentioned that their brew fermented with Wyeast 1056 tasted thin. I've noticed that any brew fermented with Wyeast *seems* thinner than those done with other (ie. dry) yeast. First, the Wyeast is usually going to be more attenutative, leaving a dryer beer, which can seem thinner than what you're used to. But I think more importantly, the Wyeast will ferment *cleaner*, meaning there are a lot less Funky Flavors(tm) and a much smoother feel and taste, so the beer might seem watery (that's the word), again compared to what you're used to. Drink a few liquid yeast fermented brews, then go back to a dry yeast brew, and compare. What was once "watery" will now be "smooth". Russ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 92 09:38 CDT From: ZLPAJGN%LUCCPUA.bitnet at UICVM.UIC.EDU Subject: Bud ads Dear Brewers, Has anyone seen the latest series of (Oh, no! they're going to be made into "Info-Soaps"... to-be-continued types) advertizements from Bud? They almost seem to be taking their cues from Miller light (admirable product that it is...NOT!) It starts with a "tastes great / less filling" type of psudo-debate, only they're arguing over whether "its the rice! / It's the hops!" When I saw this, I gaffawed! RICE?! And they're advertizing it?! I've always thought that rice was added to beer to stretch it - "cut" it, if you will. I think I remember Papezian addressing this as well in reference to the history of Beer in America, especially in post- WWII modernity. (Sit tight, critical theorists, this is the HBD, not the PSN :-) Just an observation... John Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 92 08:56:32 -0700 From: mcnally at wsl.dec.com Subject: re: keeping lauter buckets warm Here are two techniques I use to keep my grain warm in the lauter bucket: * I bought some nifty "insulation" stuff at a local hardware store (Minton's for those in the South Bay or Mt. View). It's composed of two layers of plastic bubble wrap---the stuff you use to pack fragile things for shipping if you can resist popping all the bubbles---coated on both sides with reflective mylar film. It's very light and reasonably cleanable. A layer of that stuff wrapped around my lauter bucket works great. * I have one of those little Rival electric burner elements. I keep it on "high" and rest the collection pan for recirculation on top of it. Thus, the wort does not drop in temperature during the recirculation phase. These burner elements cost about $15 and are available at any "drug store" (Walgreen's, Long's, Pay Less, etc.). With these two additions to the normal setup, I can easily keep the grain bed at about 165 degrees. Neither the insulation nor the burner were (what I consider) expensive. _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- Mike McNally mcnally at wsl.dec.com Digital Equipment Corporation Western Software Lab Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1992 11:10 EST From: STROUD <STROUD%GAIA at leia.polaroid.com> Subject: Reducing Sugars In HBD 972 <Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu> asks: >I started reading Belgian Ale last night, and came across a term in >the "profiles" that is not explained (as far as I can see) anywhere in >the book (yes, I looked in the glossary, but I can't remember if I >consulted the index, so be gentle if it's in there). The term is >"Reducing sugar" (or sugars?), as in > Reducing sugar (as maltose): 1-2.5% >What the heck is he talking about? Chemically speaking, reducing sugars are carbohydrates that reduce Fehling's reagent (alkaline cupric ion solution complexed with tartrate ion) or Tollens' reagent (a solution of silver ammonia ion). The important thing here is that all monosaccharides are reducing sugars and most disaccharides (including maltose) are reducing sugars. Sucrose (table sugar) is a notable exception. It is a non-reducing sugar. Looking at Rajotte's "Belgian Ale" book, it is not clear to me whether the line Reducing sugar (as maltose): 1-2.5% means that 1-2.5% of the reducing sugars left are maltose or whether the final composition of the beer contains 1-2.5% reducing sugars. I suspect the latter. Just another example of where a little better editing could help this book. Isn't it too bad that Pierre isn't connected to HBD like George Fix is? :-) - -- Steve Stroud <stroud%gaia at polaroid.com> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ In heaven there is lots of good beer, but that won't stop me from getting a head start as long as I'm here ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1992 08:59:27 -0700 From: Bob Konigsberg <bobk at NSD.3Com.COM> Subject: Wine Questions I'm posting because all mail to mgx at soild(or solid).ssd.ornl.gov is bouncing. If you'd like to "talk" more, email me at bobk at nsd.3Com.com. No experience with asceptic grape juice in bags, since we make ours starting with grapes. As for fermentation, we do the wine fermentation in covered plastic barrels, but not airtight. I'm not sure what analogy to draw, since ours has grape skins (red wine) and seeds in there. My neighbors do Chardonnay in carboys, but they're in an ice water bath to slow the fermentation down. My guess is that at ambient temperatures in the 70's a 6.5 gallon carboy would safely hold 5 gallons, but much more and you're pushing your luck. It would be better to buy and sterilize a covered plastic garbage pail of about 10 gallons capacity. Prior to using it, wash it very thoroughly with chlorinated TSP for both sanitation, and to remove any oils left from the manufacturing process. Wine yeasts are more robust than their beer cousins, and will do just fine. You would also need to do at least a 1 quart starter prior to pitching or breaking the seal on your bag of grape juice. A 1 day start is ok, 2 days is better. Use concord grape juice for red wine, apple juice for white wine. The frozen concentrates in the grocery store are fine. By the way, some stores carry a RED concord, so you get a better color match in that respect. Peter Nesbitt asks questions regarding: 1) Longneck Bottles => Don't use twist-offs; The thin lip is fragile, and can break during capping. In addition, if you don't have the right capper, you may not get as good a seal on the bottles. As far as obtaining them, around here, some liquor stores will "sell" you cases of longnecks. 2) Secondary Tanks => the purpose of a secondary is to allow the initial fermentation to finish gracefully while not on the trub from the fermentation. Allowing the beer to sit on the trub can allow autolysis (east digesting its spent cousins), and does terrible things to the flavor of the beer. It is really not a "second" fermentation per se, since there has been no added sugar at this point. The bottle priming is a true second fermentation. 3) Fermentation Completion => The yeast go dormant, but there are enough of them in suspension to do the second fermentation for bottle conditioning. BobK Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 92 11:13:12 CDT From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec) Subject: draft pilsner urquell arrives in chicago! Yes, it's true. A number of us were sampling the beer lineup at Berghoff's Festival, and we were discussing rumors we had heard. We headed to O'Callahan's, in the River North area, and sure enough it was on tap. Needless to say, we drank a few rounds. My need to catch a train saved me from a long night :-) ! Of course, I'll be back. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 92 12:21 CDT From: korz at iepubj.att.com Subject: Milling on-site I don't know what percentage of brewpubs buy their grain pre-milled, but of the four in the Chicago area that I know do all-grain, the two Winekeller's buy their grain pre-milled, Berghoff's has a mill (Seiben's used to mill their own, but I don't know for sure if Berghoff's, who bought Seiben's, still does) and I don't know if Goose Island mills their own (Tony? Steve?). I'd like to point out that simple square footage is not the issue in whether a brewpub has a mill or not. Milling should be done in a room set aside for milling, which is isolated from the rest of the brewery (for sanitation reasons -- grain dust is a great source for lactobacillus - -- this is true for us homebrewer's too!) and equipped as an explosive environment. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1992 10:44:58 -0700 (MST) From: JLIDDIL at AZCC.Arizona.EDU Subject: re iodophor Sherrill writes: > % Date: 17 Sep 92 14:14:00 +1700 > % From: SHERRILL_PAUL at Tandem.COM > % Subject: Using Iodopher for sanitizing > % > % - ------------ ORIGINAL ATTACHMENT -------- > % SENT 09-17-92 FROM SHERRILL_PAUL at CTS > % > % I bought a little bottle of the above and was told to use 1 TBS per > % 5 gallons and a 2 minute contact time. Doe sthis sound right. I > % don't have a breakdown of the ingredients of the stuff with me but > % if need be I'll bring them in. > % Other questions: > % 1. Should I rinse? I have been only out of worry. I was told to > % not rinse. > % > % 2. Is this stuff ok for my plastic hoses? > % > % 3. How long would a bucket of this diluted in water still hold > % it's magical cleaning powers? The iododphor you bought should list the percent "available" iodine" . Typically it is 1 %. This is 1 gram/ 100 milliliters. 10000mg/L or 10000 ppm . You want to use a solution of 12.5 ppm. This is a dilution of 1:800. This is 1.25 ml/L. A gallon is equal to 3.785 liters. So you add 4.73 ml/gallon or 23.7 ml/5 gallons. A tbs is equal to half an ounce. An ounce is typically about 30 ml so maybe your solution is more than 1% available iodine. You should not rinse the level of 12.5 ppm is the recommended concentration for bars and resteraunts to use to rinse dishes and glasses with no rinsing. I use this amount or even 25 ppm to be safe and notice no taste problems. The FDA allows up to 25 ppm in food. After things drain you have even less present. It is safe for all your brewing equipment though your plastic may take on ab rwon tinge with time. If you find it asthetically unpleasing soak your stuff in bleach and the color will be gone. I only make a gallon at a time. I did a test and found a 15.5 ppm solution to be stabel fro only 30-40 hrs. I make it fresh each time I use it. You can get iodine test paper through a pharmacy sometimes or Williams Brewing in California (510)895-2739 carrys it. Also the hardness of your water effects stability. If you have more questions e-mail me. ___________________________________________________________________________ James D. Liddil Voice (602) 626-3958 Arizona Cancer Center Tucson, AZ jliddil at azcc.arizona.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 92 12:44 CDT From: korz at iepubj.att.com Subject: Mill control Paul writes: >The plus of having your own mill is that it's just one more variable you >get to control/goof up. How much is that worth? It can also be one less variable that your suppliers can goof up. Of the seven or so homebrew supply shops that I've bought from, one owner is more experienced than I am (it's Tim Norris, btw), one has been a homebrewer longer that I have, but he brews all extract and he always asks me for my advise on how to improve his beers, and all the rest had little or no brewing experience. I wouldn't trust them to mill grain for my bread let alone my beer. Quality control is worth a lot. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 92 16:03 GMT From: Phillip Seitz <0004531571 at mcimail.com> Subject: Why crush your own grain? There's been a good bit of discussion regarding the necessity of having one's own grain mill, and as a (lame) beginner in the mash department I've noticed one factor that hasn't been mentioned yet. I've done two partial mashes so far. For the second one I ordered my grain pre-crushed at a very reasonable price from a leading East-Coast homebrew supply house. The problem was that even a beginner like me could tell that the crush was much, much too coarse. Having read that it's better to go too coarse than to turn the stuff to flour in a blender, I decided to brew anyway. Well, the yield was about 30%, and if I hadn't had lots of DME and candi sugar it would have been a total loss. Fortunately a friend with a Corona mill helped me grind the remaining malt to the proper consistancy. While it's obviously going to take a long time to pay for a mill at $0.10 per pound, and on the other hand it's nice to have the equipment, the fact is that one reason to have the mill is to have the control you need. Have I bought one yet? No--I'm trying one more supplier, and if this doesn't work out, I'll take the plunge. By the way, I don't mention the name of the poorly-crushed grain supplier because I've yet to call them to complain; this may have been an aberration, and I hate for anybody to get a bad rep if they don't deserve it. Anyway, my new motto is: LAME, AND PROUD OF IT! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 92 11:27:35 PDT From: Richard Childers <rchilder at us.oracle.com> Subject: Answers > Date: Fri, 18 Sep 92 05:00 GMT > From: Peter Nesbitt <0005111312 at mcimail.com> > Subject: Questions part II > > - I'm having trouble finding true long-necks. Should I absolutely not use > twist off bottles? I've asked almost every eating establishment in town, > but they will not give up their returnables. Twist tops work for me, in emergencies. Others ( Jack Scmidling ) have used plastic bottles. Experimentation is indicated, your mileage may vary, etc. > - What is the purpose of a secondary fermentation tank. My first batch > uses this method, but doesn't require me to add anything, and doesn't > give a reason for doing this. The transfer of liquids leaves a lot of sediment ( trub ) behind, making for a clearer, cleaner beer. Also, beer in a secondary fermenter can be left there and will be fairly stable, for lack of these aforementioned sediments. > - When my fermentation is nearing completion, does the yeast go into a dor- > -mant state or just die? Both. There will always be living yeast cells in your solution, unless you boil it or filter it. These cells can be recovered and recycled into your next batch, incidentally. > - When the priming sugar is added at bottling time, does this "revive" the > yeast, or just cause some sort of chemical reaction to cause carbonation? It revives the yeast. They eat it, excrete CO2 and ethanol, and multiply. > Thanks again for helping a new guy out! Welcome to the peerage ... (-: - -- richard ===== - -- richard childers rchilder at us.oracle.com 1 415 506 2411 oracle data center -- unix systems & network administration Klein flask for rent. Inquire within. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 92 11:07 CDT From: akcs.chrisc at vpnet.chi.il.us (chris campanelli) Subject: preground vs pre-preground There's alot of discussion about preground malt versus whole malt. Obviously there are advantages and disadvantages to both, some trivial, some not so trivial. I think your decision should be based on which type of malt fits into your brewing procedure best. Some people prefer preground while others prefer to grind their own. What ever flips up your skirt. I have had great beers from both. I feel the more pressing issue is not which form of malt to purchase but how to store the malt. Long term shelf life will adversely affect malt regardless of form yet preground suffers sooner. An air-tight container, in conjunction with some form of desiccant, is probably the best way to go. For small amounts, I have found that old plastic containers are great for the 1 - 5 lb range. Clorox bottles, milk and water jugs all work great. A recent addition has been the new type of cat litter containers. They hold about 5 lbs and have wide mouths. For larger amounts of malt some homebrewers prefer containers large enough to hold 100 lbs. Myself and other indolent ectomorphs prefer smaller containers. I have found that the 5 gallon plastic buckets with snap-on lids answer the call with gusto. They are designed to be stacked and 100 lbs of malt can be split up into 4 or 5 buckets so that while using one bucket of malt, the other portions of malt stay sealed. These buckets are usually free for the asking and can be obtained through numerous sources. Extract breweries are a good place to start as their buckets are the most prized. Their extract comes in buckets with notoriously tenacious snap-on lids that have built-in o-ring seals. They hold 25 lbs of grain and have no residual odors. The local bakery. Most wet ingredients a bakery uses are shipped in buckets. My local bakery, small by comparison, generate about a dozen buckets a week. Slightly smaller, these buckets hold 20 lbs of grain and sometimes have rather pleasant residual odors. Of the buckets I have received, one smelled of chocolate as it held chocolate filling, another smelled of raspberries as it held red raspberry preserves and another smelled of marzipan (yum!). These smells didn't scrub out, bleach out or dissipate in sunlight so I reserved the stronger smelling buckets for dark malts. It's kind of a game to try to marry malts with buckets that have complimenting smells. Chocolate malt and the chocolate filling bucket. You get the picture. Lastly, restaurants are a good source but at times supply can be spotty. They are similar to the malt extract buckets. And talk about residual smells. I've received a bucket that smelled of kosher pickles, another of sauerkraut and another of squid (blech!). As these odors didn't come out with conventional chemical weapons and I obviously had no malts of a complimenting aroma, these buckets now hold tomato(e) plants. Gee honey, I haven't a clue why that cats hang around that one tomato plant. chris campanelli Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 92 11:08 CDT From: akcs.chrisc at vpnet.chi.il.us (chris campanelli) Subject: cider/mead forums I understand there are forums for cider and mead. Could someone please email me the addresses? Thanks in advance. chris campanelli Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 92 13:39:26 CDT From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss) Subject: Dallas Brewpubs? Can I have a Brian Treat? Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 92 16:51:15 CDT From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix) Subject: Yield Yield as it is normally defined is the percent of a grains weight that is converted into wort sugars (both fermentable and nonfermentable). Most barley malt familiar to me typically has a carbohydrate concentration which ranges from 80 to 85% of its weight, with the lower end being more common. This means that using a malt rate of 1 lb. per gallon would result in at most .8 to .85 lbs. of wort sugars per gallon of wort. Converting to to metric, this is equal to 9.6 to 10.2 grams extract per 100 ml. of wort. >From the Balling Tables we see that this is equivalent to 9.3 to 9.8 grams extract per 100 grams of wort (i.e., percent by weight or degrees Plato if you like). The Balling Tables also show that this is equivalent to a specific gravity of 1.037 to 1.039. Thus, it would appear that a malt rate of 1 lb. per gallon could give at most 37 to 39 gravity points, and that this is equivalent to a 80 to 85% yield. In my system I get nowhere near the maximum rate. In a step infusion mash I typically get around a 65% yield, or what is the same, 30 gravity points per unit malt rate . I am getting a bit more with the Belgium malts. By the way, this drops to a 60% yield (or 28 points) in a single stage mash. I believe the difference lies in the action of alpha-amylase enzymes in their role as liquifying enzymes, which is to be distinguished from their role as starch converters. In particular, they seem to do better in the former role at temperatures below 60C (140F), and this leads to better yields. Having said this I have seen no other differences between the these two mashing techniques vis-a-vis beer quality, assuming of course that everything else is equal. I have often been asked about the yields reported in Dave Miller's books. I consider him a good friend (we have each dedicated books to one another), but I must say that Dave's mashing procedures are unorthdox. In particular, as a homebrewer he did a massive amount of mash recycling (to use Micah's term), and that with a step infusion mash will give the high yields he quotes. He is now a commercial brewer using a BRD system, a company for which I consult. He uses a single step mash in his St. Louis brew pub, but retains his preference for high extraction rates through extensive recycling. In fact, in a company site visit last April, he wowed one and all with a full 2 hrs. of recycling. I do not happen to brew this way, and my ideas about these matters are much closer to Micah's. However, this is Dave's style, this is the way he likes to brew beer, and I feel that each of us get to call our own shoots about such matters. The brew pub (St. Louis Brewing) is doing very well by the way. George Fix Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 92 11:43:01 CDT From: whg at tellabs.com Subject: Wyeast #1007 My limited experience with 1007 was definatley similar, thinkkk kraeusen that floated on top forever. I racked off this after a week o a little less. Both beers I made with this yeast cleared quickely after racking. The beers were clean but frankly boring. This is the "cleanest" fermenting yeast I've every used. So clean that it IMHO beats all the character right out of the wort. I've been told the same thing by other very reputable sources (tony at ssps.com (can't say I personally know of any more reputable source)). FWIW the #1338 European is my yeast of choose for Kolsch and Alt's. Walter Gude || whg at tellabs.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 92 19:51:51 PDT From: Mark N. Davis <mndavis at pbhya.PacBell.COM> Subject: Questions about hop vines Greets Brew-brethen, I've been reading quite a bit about all of you hop vine growers and your experiences in the past 10 or so HBD's. It wouldn't happen to have anything to do with harvest season, now would it? But it got me to thinking... There's a spot at my house on the way to the front door, where the previous owner, for some unknown reason, erected a sort of awning frame, which extends over the walkway. It occurred to me that if I could find some sort of vine (see the connection?) to grow up from the planter next to the house, up the wall, and across the framework, it would make sort of a vegetation tunnel. The questions are: 1) Do hop vines make for attractive plants? Are different species more or less attractive than other? 2) My planter is just a 1' wide strip of dirt next to a concrete walkway. Its about 15' long. Is this enough ground to support enough hop vines to form a nice wall o' cones? 3) How will hop vines react to being corralled horizontly once they reach the framework, which is about 10' high? 4) Do the fresh cones give off such an aroma that guest walking into my house will demand at gunpoint that I serve them homebrews until they drop? Thanks in advance for any answers. Hoppy harvest to all of you farmers. Mark Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1992 00:31:15 -0500 From: Todd Enders - WD0BCI <enders at plains.NoDak.edu> Subject: Chimay & banana update... Well, the latest sampling of the banana trippel is most promising! The banana flavour and aroma is subsiding nicely, and the spice and some bubblegum are coming through after 4 weeks in the bottle. Another month or two, and it'll be so good I'll hardly be able to stand it! :-) I suspect that one has to have Benedictine patience to wait for something brewed with Chimay yeast to come around. :-) One thing, though... I think the banana ester production is highly dependant on the SG of the brew. I didn't notice any high levels of esters in my starter (about 1.025 OG). A dubbel at about 1.060-1.065 will come together faster than a trippel starting at 1.070+ I don't know just how long they condition Chimay in the bottle before they ship it, but I suspect it's longer than 4 weeks. So my personal advice is not to worry alot about the banana ester level at bottling or shortly (1-2 weeks) thereafter. It just takes time for a strong brew to come together. Brew it and stash it away for a couple months or so, and prepare to be rewarded! :-) IMHO, Chimay yeast, obtained from whatever source, does a fine job, and the taste is worth waiting for! :-) Now, if I can isolate the proper strain from the 5 strain melange that is Orval... =============================================================================== Todd Enders - WD0BCI ARPA: enders at plains.nodak.edu Computer Center UUCP: ...!uunet!plains!enders Minot State University or: ...!hplabs!hp-lsd!plains!enders Minot, ND 58701 Bitnet: enders at plains "The present would be full of all possible futures, if the past had not already projected a pattern upon it" - Andre' Gide =============================================================================== Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 92 09:19:51 EDT From: joseph at joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us (Joseph Nathan Hall) Subject: That Yummy Malt Flavor This is a thread I've been pushing on r.c.b for a while now. I thought that some of you Digest readers, in particular George Fix, might have some more authoritative answers for me, considering the thread on Belgian malts etc. that has gone on here for a while. I'm looking for the right combination of ingredients needed to produce the BIG, round, caramely, yummy malt flavor found in (for example) MacAndrews Scotch Ale, Ayinger Celebrator, Ayinger Oktober-Fest, even Pilsner-Urquell. I believe that the missing ingredient is British or Continental 2-row pale and/or crystal malt. I've gotten replies from brewers in the UK and Europe who have said, "What's the big deal?" and have given me recipes that use 10-15% crystal .. just like my recipes. Sorry, but the malt I've used (with at least 1/2 dozen different ale yeasts, and several lager yeasts) just doesn't work the same! This includes British 2-row, some British crystal, lots of Klages, American crystal, etc. I tried a friend of a friend's brew that used 30-40% crystal (!). It was indeed round and caramely, but had some other troubles. I don't believe that the yeast is directly responsible for this character. Certainly the choice of yeast can affect body, dryness, fruitiness, etc., but I don't think that yeast makes or removes much of the deep caramely flavor that I am looking for. Those of you with some sophisticated knowledge of sensory perception are welcome to agree with or correct me. If someone out there has made, say, a MacAndrews clone that tastes truly similar to the real thing, I'd appreciate a recipe, along with the name of the maltster, mashing details, yeast used, etc. My next step will be to get my hands on some more British crystal (which Fred Eckhardt claims affects the flavor of beer much more than American crystal), and some German Pilsner malt, and try brewing with that. Unless, of course, some of you have better ideas. (Please?) uunet!joebloe!joseph (609) 273-8200 day joseph%joebloe at uunet.uu.net v v sssss | Certified Guru: all-grain brewing,| 2102 Ryan's Run East v v s s | C, synthesizer comp & arranging, | Rt 38 & 41 v sss | photography. Also not a bad cook. | Maple Shade NJ 08052 - -----My employer isn't paying for this, and my opinions are my own----- Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1992 07:44:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul dArmond <paulf at henson.cc.wwu.edu> Subject: Re: re premilling (slack vs strike temp) On Fri, 18 Sep 1992, Chip Hitchcock wrote: > slack grain has a higher mass due to absorbed water, hence you need more > energy to raise this mass from room temp to mashing temp, hence higher > strike temp. (you might need even higher strike temp in order to use less > water at mash-in, since there's already more water in the grain than > expected by standard recipes). Absolutely. The part I don't get is on p. 259 in Malting and Brewing science, where "slaking heat" (gram-cals/degree) is used to figure strike heats. I don't get it, so here's the formula and table: Paraphased from _Malting and Brewing Science_ by Hough, Briggs and Stevens -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Initial heat = St + RT + 1/2H --------- ------ S + R S + R S - Specific heat of malt t - temperature of malt R - ratio of liquor to grist by weight T - temperature of the liquor (strike heat) H - slaking heat of the malt in gram-cals/degree temperature The expression is applicable to both centigrade and fahrenheit providing terms are expressed in the appropriate units. Table 10.1: Specific heat and slaking heat of a malt at various moisture contents slaking heat (gram-cals) at % moisture specific heat mashing temp of 150F 0 0.38 33.5 1 0.38 29.0 2 0.39 25.0 4 0.40 18.8 6 0.41 14.5 8 0.42 12.4 [from the accompanying examples, it appears that these figures are appropriate for degrees F.] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -end of plagiaristic paraphrase I still don't get what going on, nor do I see why slack malt should have a huge effect on yeilds. There is no mention of reduced yeilds for slack malt, either here or the other places I've looked. I frequently grind the day before, or sometimes earlier, so this enquiring mind would like to know. paul Return to table of contents
Date: 19 Sep 1992 15:40:08 -0400 (EDT) From: homebrew at tso.uc.EDU (Ed Westemeier) Subject: Novice hop farmer's report Hop Farming for Fun Let me start off by explaining that I'm nowhere even close to thinking of myself as an expert. In fact, I really don't know beans about hops, except that I like 'em in my beer -- lots of 'em! Anyway, on the Saturday pub crawl through Boston after the 1991 AHA conference, my group got the grand tour of the Boston Brewing Co. from none other than Jim Koch himself (Mr. Sam Adams). Jim also likes hops, and he talked a lot about the benefits of fresh hops as well as (much to my surprise) the benefits of _aged_ hops (that's another story). So I started taking a more serious interest in them. I had called Freshops in Oregon early last spring and ordered four rhizomes: Cascade, Hallertauer, Northern Brewer and Saaz. The rhizomes came through in fine shape, well packed and marked: four slightly damp scraggly roots, each about five inches long and the thickness of a pencil. I planted them according to directions, and waited. Last year they all grew pretty well, and I just let them go pretty much where they wanted. I actually harvested about 1/3 of an ounce (dried weight) from the Cascade, about a dozen cones from the Hallertauer, and nothing from the others. This year, I did it somewhat closer to right. First, I trimmed off all but two shoots from each variety (the trimmings were delicious, but that's another story). I planted poles and let the vines climb up some twine. I got over four ounces (dried) from the Cascade, a little over an ounce from the Hallertauer, about a dozen cones from the Northern Brewer, and nothing from the Saaz. Th Cascade and Hallertauer grew to almost 20 feet, the Northern Brewer 12 feet, and the Saaz less than 10 feet. OK, some varieties do better than others. I can handle that. But nothing from the Saaz two years in a row? I asked a couple of people at the AHA conference in Milwaukee this year about them, and one person told me that I shouldn't expect anything from the Saaz before the third year. Well, maybe so, but I decided that I knew better. Since the Saaz vine gets a bit less sun than the others, I decided that was the problem so I resolved to dig it up and transplant it to another location. After digging down a little, I got a real surprise. The Saaz main taproot is now as thick as my wrist! Obviously, it's putting all its energy into growth below ground level, and I have high hopes for it next year. By the way, I should mention that I haven't fertilized any of them, just dumped a little compost around the roots from time to time. The conventional wisdom is that hops don't grow very well below 40 degrees of latitude (I'm at 39) but some of them seem to like this area just fine. I don't know what the alpha acid percentage is in my homegrown hops, but then I don't really need to know. I can buy hops for bittering and the supplier will tell me down to a tenth of a percent. I can use my own for dry hopping where the percentage doesn't matter much, and I'll know that I'm using the freshest hops around. - -- Ed Westemeier Cincinnati, Ohio Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 92 14:37:24 PDT From: mdcsc!gdh at uunet.UU.NET (Garrett Hildebrand) Subject: Re: Apple Cider Hard apple cider is not particularly hard to make. I have been using the following simple method with great success. Beer making veterans may be aghast at the lack of controls, but it does work just fine. 1 Gallon bottle of pure apple cider, no sugar added. 1 small can of apple cider or apple juice concentrate, frozen 1 packet of champagne or ale yeast. - square of saran wrap - rubber band Open the apple cider and pour out enough to leave headroom down to where the bottle is no longer curved in. Drink what you pour out or save it for something else. Add in 1/2 of the frozen concentrate. If you have lost the headroom, you did not pour enough out, so pour out some more. Shake it up real good, then add in the yeast and shake it up some more. Put the saran wrap over the bottle mouth, wet, so it slips around a bit and is not making an air-tight seal. Place a rubber band around the neck near the top. The idea is to keep things from getting into the bottle, but act like an air-lock thus letting blow-off out. Don't make a big deal out of this step. Put the bottle in the sink or on a place on the countertop and let it sit out for two to three days, then put it in the refridgerator. *** At no time should you cap the bottle or it will explode *** Beginning with the third day you can start drinking the stuff. It will change in character from day to day. The longer you let it sit the less sweet and the more alchoholic it gets. If you leave it long enough it will clarify. Mine never lasts that long. You can play around with sterilization and pasturization and air-locks and what-not, but it never made mine taste any better. Stay loose. Garrett - ------------------------------ Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1992 13:06 CST From: Robert Schultz <SCHULTZ at admin1.usask.ca> Subject: mass of DME I'm sure this has crossed the HBD, but I can't seem to find it .... Can anyone tell me the weight of 1 cup of DME? Is there any/much weight difference in light to dark DME? Thanks, please email replies. Robert Schultz. p.s. Thanks to all who responded wrt to my posting on cider information, the wealth of information and those willing to share it are an invaluable resource! How can people brew without the HBD??? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "I'm going off half-cocked? I'm going off half-cocked? ... Well, Mother was right - You can't argue with a shotgun." - Gary Larson ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #973, 09/21/92