FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Czech Budweiser (Desmond Mottram)
  Re : Racking off thee trub (Conn Copas)
  Guinness, Starter OG, wine acidity (Geoff Cooper)
  New Orleans brewpubs? ("Mary Dabney Wilson" )
  Re: Fermenting in Sankey kegs / caustic soda suppliers (man)
  Brewers Resource Dir/NYCY 2 ("Daniel F McConnell")
  An easy fix for soot on Stainless steel pot  (Michael_Genier.Wbst139)
  California Common Beer ("Anthony Johnston")
  Lambics - Is Belgium Unique ? (Richard Childers)
  Re: Galangale (Carl West)
  Cat's Meow I & II ("Steve Kurka - BMC West, Boise, ID")
  snpa revisited (Tony Babinec 312 329-3570)
  SN (Brian Bliss)
  Hoegaarden Replication ("Tom Childers")
  Cleaning stainless steel (Derrick Pohl)
  IBU Calculations (Mark Garetz)
  Yeast vs. Trub, Materials List, SNPA Hops (Mark Garetz)
  Wheat Beer (Riccardo Cristadoro)
  New Jersey Brewpub Bill (Gary S. Kuyat)
  Re-using yeast & commercial beer storage ("Anderso_A")
  soot: take 2 ("Anton Verhulst")
  cold break/starters/fermenter geometry/faucets/fruit sanitation & HSA (korz)
  RE: Fridge Question (Karen Jdsgeoac Hyrum GEOACOUSTIC)
  SO4 and hops (Scott Stihler (USGS analyst))
  More soot on pots... (Hugh R Bynum)
  Brewing Techniques address ("Spencer W. Thomas")


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 May 93 10:17:11 BST
From: des at pandora.swindon.ingr.com (Desmond Mottram)
Subject: Czech Budweiser

In HBD recently Richard Akerboom wrote about Czech Budweiser. This is IMHO 
one of the world's finest beers. Richard adds:
> 
> If Anheuser-Busch were to import US Bud, they would have to change
> the name, as the Czechs have the rights to the name in Europe.

Not in all European countries. In many cases A-B got there first. Here in 
the UK _both_ companies can use the name. 

> At least until A-B buys them out, which I hope never happens.

It will happen, make no mistake. A-B are out to get the Czech company. 
I believe they already own 30% and are continually on the look out for ways
to increase their ownership. You can try lobbying A-B but do you really 
think you will get anywhere? They will mouth all kinds of platitudes, but 
when they get it they will kill the beer. So enjoy it while you can, it 
really is a SUPERB beer and it won't be here for ever.

Rgds, Desmond Mottram
des at pandora.swindon.ingr.com

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Date: Wed, 26 May 93 10:19:54 BST
From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas at lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re : Racking off thee trub

Yesterday, I wrote this:

"However, my understanding of the chemistry is that many fermentation
byproducts, such as fusel oil and esters, are produced during the yeast
_respiration_ phase. At this point, the yeast requires oxygen to reproduce,
most homebrewed worts contain suboptimal levels of dissolved oxygen, so it's a
reasonable bet that the yeast will attempt to extract oxygen from the trub, and
produce fusel oil in the process."

This relied on memory and is inaccurate; apologies for the confusion. With
further reading, _precursors_ to these byproducts are formed, during both the
lag and respiration phases. Yeast does not extract oxygen from trub, it uses
the unsaturated fatty acids as an alternative to oxygen for growth. The net 
effects of this alternative pathway remain controversial.

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 26 May 1993 14:11:26 +0000
From: G.A.Cooper at qmw.ac.uk (Geoff Cooper)
Subject: Guinness, Starter OG, wine acidity

Conn Copas <C.V.Copas at lut.ac.uk> writes:
>I find (British) N. Brewer works great in stouts; it definitely provides
>flavour as well as bitterness when boiled an hour, unlike Hallertauer. Better,
>if you are partial to fruit stouts, consider some Bullion for their
>blackcurrant character. Unfortunately, these are being phased out here, and I
>don't know of a suitable replacement. I actually find that if I use enough of
>our cruddy, local Goldings, I also get blackcurrant. Conclusion? I am either
>being sold mislabelled Bullion (unlikely, as they have Goldings aroma), or the
>two varieties have something in common.
 ...
>...                              Unfortunately, I can detect lager malt in 
>even the most aggressive stout (sulphur?), which is why I don't follow
>Miller's advice. Some wheat malt is well worth considering, however.

Brian Bliss <bliss at pixel.convex.com> asks:

>Does anybody know for sure exactly what Gunness is hopped with?

Although Guinness might have used bullion in the past, bullion has not been
produced commercially in the UK since the 1987 crop, and is no longer 
available (if someone in the UK sold you some recently they were old). As a
data point: when I last enquired (two years ago) Guinness were using Target
hops, a high alpha (10%-12% depending on season) hop which doesn't seem to
give too much aggression with its bitterness. It has a respectable aroma also
and is gaining popularity with many commercial breweries. The choice by
Guinness  is based on the price per unit of alpha acid - that is, it is
cheaper to obtain their bittering by using that hop rather than others; If
another hop were cheaper they would use it (assuming it didn't adversely
affect the flavour). No altruism on their part.

Further data: the 1992 UK hop crop, in Zentner, for some varieties was
    Target      47,396
    Challenger  12,866
    Northdown   11,977
    Goldings     8,965
    Fuggles      8,124

Northern Brewer was in 10th place with 347 Zentner, and the total production
was 96,417 which is fairly typical (1991 was exceptional with 120,333) 

I also recall that Guinness use a high proportion of 'lager malt' in their
grist for reasons of economy too (I can't find my notes confirming this so
don't take that as gospel yet). It is simply that lager malt is cheaper than
pale. In the small quantities that I purchase, lager malt costs 405.00 per
tonne and pale costs 415.00 per tonne (crystal 425.00 per tonne, Roast
Barley 385.00) - prices in pounds sterling.

*********
On the subject of Guinness, I shall refer back to the discussion about their
thingy in the bottom of the draught guinness in cans. Al K. finally scotched
this momily but his description was not quite complete. In fact the plastic
chamber, which has a little hole in it, is totally empty when it is put in
the can. (No I don't meean a vacuum, I mean gas at atmospheric pressure OK?)

The system works because the pressure in the can exceeds atmospheric pressure
(remember the pssst when you pull the ring?). The can is filled with beer 
that is cold enough (0C to 1C) to retain sufficient condition and an oversize
can (440ml beer in 500ml can, say) is used. They also "dose" the beer with
extra nitrogen (less soluble and finer bubbles). Once the lid is on, (and the
beer warms up) gas comes out of solution to create the pressure in the can.
The pressure in the can and inside the chamber reach equilibrium forcing beer
(and gas) into the device through its little hole. Once the can is opened, the
resulting drop in pressure forces this beer back out of the chamber through
the tiny hole. The shock of passing through this tight constriction creates
small stable bubbles which rise through the liquid acting as centres where
other bubbles form.

Cleaver really. The last remaining problem was finding a way to purge oxygen
from the whole system (hence, or otherwise, the nitrogen momily?).

********
Talking of momilies, Jack S. descibed me as 'a momily buster in the bud'. Now
that we have been told what a momily is, I know what I was being accused of.
But then again if Jack knew me better he probably wouldn't think of me as
being 'in the bud'.

The above happened when I asked about the rationale for using starters with
SG 1.020, which appears to be the received wisdom on this digest. I agreed to
summarise the responses, but unfortunately I have little to report. The most
promising response was from Kinney Baughan (quoting Dave Logson as) saying 
that it is "necessary only from the point of view of efficiency of reproduction
of the yeast."

Perhaps I shall carry on looking at this one for a while, but lets have a few
data points. In my descriptions for making culture media, only two values
seem to appear; if you are to use (hopped) wort agar one uses SG 1.040 (hopped)
wort with 1.5% agar; if you choose to use MYGP (or similar) broth/agar then (I
calculate) the SG is about 1.005.

*********
Bruce <NULL0TROOPER at delphi.com> writes

>I've found that fermentation often lowers the acidity of a wine
>must,  though this should be less pronounced with beers and ales (I
>haven't tried it,  yet).

On the contrary, under normal conditions fermentation increases the acidity
(and lowers the pH) of wine must. This increase is typically of the order of
1 ppt (as Tartaric). The exceptions are when the must is extremely high in
acid at the start (eg >12ppt), or if there is a high proportion of malic acid
present and the particular strain of yeast being used can ferment malic acid.
There are only a few of those strains available to the home brewer and it is
very unlikely that one will be used (and then they only use about 20-25% of
the available malic acid)

As for beer, one might expect a pH drop from 5.5, say, to below 4.5 (after
which the activity of a number of bacteria is inhibited - fortunately for us)

*********
And finally, I was recently in central Florida and suffered the shock in the
supermarkets of finding that they had yards and yards of chilled shelving all
containing the same beer - they just had different names: Bud, Bud Dry,
Bud Lite, Michelob, Michelob Dry, Miller, Miller Lite, Coors, Pabst ...etc.
I was attempting to overcome the experience, when I spotted an oassis in the
corner - there were a couple of six-packs of Carlsberg Elephant. A beer I know
and I selected that one without hesitation - no choice really. If you haven't
tried it I suggest you do, if you come across it. 

Regards
Geoff


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Date:         26 May 93 08:34:46 CST
From: "Mary Dabney Wilson" <WILSON at library.uta.edu>
Subject:      New Orleans brewpubs?

I will be traveling to New Orleans and want to know if there are any
good brewpubs.  Any recommendations?

Mary Dabney Wilson

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Date: Wed, 26 May 93 09:03:44 EDT
From: man at lcwdw1.att.com
Subject: Re: Fermenting in Sankey kegs / caustic soda suppliers

< 1)  I have been doing some experiments fermenting in 5 gal glass carboys and
<     5 gal SS soda kegs.  I have found that the beers in the soda kegs all take
<     much longer to ferment out.  I think it is do to the geometry.  Has
<     anyone else noticed this?  I have heard of some people fermenting in  
<     Sankey (sp?) kegs.  I dont know what a Sankey keg is, but I am guessing
<     that is is a regular beer keg.  If so, how in the heck do you make  
<     sure they are clean?  I want to use SS especially since I can use pressure
<     to transfer the beer instead of syphons.  And a standard beer keg has
<     a geometry similar to a carboyu.  Anyone have any experience fermenting
<     in Sankey/beer kegs?

I primary ferment in 1/2 barrel Sankey kegs exclusively. Cleaning them 
immediately after use is a must. I sanitize them with boiling water on a
King Kooker. I have well water with no iron in it, so I'm not worried about
that reaction. I use one of those orange caps to cover the tap opening. It
fits perfectly. 

Anyone in NJ know where I can buy caustic soda? My previous supplier is out
of business and I can't find anyone in the Somerville, NJ are that carries
it. I use it periodically to make sure the fermenters are really clean.

 Mark Nevar 

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Date: 26 May 1993 09:59:04 -0500
From: "Daniel F McConnell" <Daniel.F.McConnell at med.umich.edu>
Subject: Brewers Resource Dir/NYCY 2

                       Subject:                               Time:9:53 AM
  OFFICE MEMO          Brewers Resource Dir/NYCY 240          Date:5/26/93
Does anyone out there have access to The Brewers Resource Directory available
from the Association of Brewers?  I need to find some information, but am a
little hesitant to shell out the $80.

Also...does anyone know of a source for the yeast culture NYCY 240?  This is
(apparently) a highly flocculant English strain of great character that was
once available from Intek (sp?) in Australia who has since gone out of
business. 

Please send private e-mail.

DanMcC



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Date: 	Wed, 26 May 1993 07:18:18 PDT
From: Michael_Genier.Wbst139 at xerox.com
Subject:  An easy fix for soot on Stainless steel pot 

"soot forms on the bottom of my expensive new Stainless steel
pot. "


Dear Tony Verhulst
This problem is best solved by a very simple method that I learned while a Boy
Scout.   The problem of soot and the burnt outsides of pots and pans is
epidemic on a campfire.   The method is to gingerly wipe on ordinary dish soap
on the outside of your pot.   On a camp fire may be half way up the pot, but in
your case maybe just the bottom.   The soap forms a non flammable barrier, that
attracts the soot.   When you clean your pot, the soot will come off with very
minimal scrubbing.  P.S. don't forget that the soap is on the bottom of the pot
and set it on your counter space, in the woods it dosen't hurt the dirt.

Good Luck --Michael Genier

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Date: Wed, 26 May 93 9:25:27 CDT
From: "Anthony Johnston" <anthony at chemsun.chem.umn.edu>
Subject: California Common Beer

I just bottled my first attempt at a California Common or "steam" beer
yesterday and I noticed a definite DMSO odor in the beer (the cooked
corn type odor).  Will bottle conditioning help to reduce this over time
or will I just have to get used to it.  What causes this (I've heard
that this is generally due to slow wort cooling, but as this was an
extract recipe which normally is cooled rapidly as it is transferred to
the carboy containing cold water, I doubt that the cooling is any
different from my other extract recipes.)

The effect is not extremely unpleasant, just unwanted.


Thanks,

Anthony Johnston

P.S.  In response to the current controversy of racking off of the trub,
I have recently made two batches of beer (stout and steam) where I did
rack mostly off the trub, but went ahead and pitched the gallon or so
remaining with the trub to see if there would be a difference.  All 4
beers are now in bottle, so I will report results in a few weeks.


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 26 May 93 07:56:46 -0700
From: pascal at netcom.com (Richard Childers)
Subject: Lambics - Is Belgium Unique ?


Quoting a recent thread on lambic production ...


"From: Mike Peckar  24-May-1993 1509 <m_peckar at cscma.enet.dec.com>
 Subject: Phenolic brews --> Lambics

"The second one was much more interesting and produced a Lambic that is
 remarkably reminiscent of the real belgian stuff. I had left out a bottle
 of Cherry Juicy Juice for a while. This is a commercial juice from
 concentrate which is made up of Cherry, Apple, and White grape juices not
 neccessarily in that order. The bottle had autopitched from the ether, and
 fermented to a slightly carbonated state.  By itself, it had a wonderful
 champagne mouth, and a creamy taste, with all three fruits prevalent, but
 cherry dominating. What I did was decant this into my bottling bucket and
 then I added about a dozen or so 16 oz bottles of my bad brew, leaving
 behind as much of the dormant/dead yeasts as possible and tasted until the
 proportions were o.k. I also added some unfermented Cherry Juicy Juice from
 a fresh container to spark off fermentation again. My hopes were the less
 dormant natural yeasts would overpower the longer-dormant ale yeasts. Also,
 I stirred the carbonated beer to release as much CO2 from solution as
 possible without excessively aeration. My guess is about the same ratio of 
 beer to juice as I had done before (2-1)."
 
"The results, after only four days were remarkable: A real good lambic 
 without 6 months of conditioning, without messing with real fruit, and 
 with wild yeasts!"


"From: bliss at pixel.convex.com (Brian Bliss)
 Subject: defending my recipe

">Also, Brian, how do you introduce the lactic infection into the bottled
 >beers?

"Nature care of that one for me.  Save some of your next soured batch.
 Beware of exploding bottles, though.  By the nature of the infection
 (sour but not rancid, appearing late in the fermentation, more attenuative
 that the brewing yeast) I assume that it was lactic."


I am curious ... has anyone ever tried to induce a lambic in the Bay Area,
or any other area which is known to harbor a particular type of yeast in
the air ?

Are 'lambic' bacteria distinct from 'lactic' bacteria, and if so, how ?

The Bay Area, for instance, and California in general, was where sourdough
was evolved, and I have been given to understand that the cause of sour-
dough's sourness is lactobacillus acidophilis. So, making an intuitive leap
here, I have to wonder ... has anyone tried this ?

Where would I get a pure lactobacillus acidophilis culture to experiment
with ?

Is the sourdough made in Alaska different from that made in California ?

Is there a potential for an explosion of lambics along the West Coast ?

Comments, corrections, feedback, welcome, as always.


- -- richard

The silliest thing I ever read,		richard childers, pascal at netcom.com
Was someone saying "God is dead."
The simple use of The Word
Negates the second, and the third.	( Duke Ellington, _Sacred Concert_ )

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Date: Wed, 26 May 93 10:50:43 EDT
From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West)
Subject: Re: Galangale


There was a long discussion on rec.food.historic two or three months
ago about galinga v. galingale, the upshot being (if I remember
correctly [I didn't save it, I wasn't that interested]) that galingale
is a different plant from galinga, some similarity in flavor, but
galingale was of European origin whereas galinga was of some eastern
origin.

FWIW.

Carl
WISL,BM.

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Date: Wed, 26 May 93 08:50:29 MDT
From: "Steve Kurka - BMC West, Boise, ID" <kurka at bmcw.com>
Subject: Cat's Meow I & II

This may be an FAQ, but where can I find the Cat's meow I & II?
Or, If they cannot be found out on the net, could someone be kind enough 
to forward me a copy?   Thanks...   Steve       - KURKA at BMCW.COM Boise, ID-

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Date: Wed, 26 May 1993 10:12:20 -0500 (CDT)
From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec 312 329-3570)
Subject: snpa revisited

Here is some info and speculation on Sierra Nevada Pale Ale and how
one might try to clone it.  SNPA is surely worth emulating, yet it
has an elegance of flavor that is a bit elusive.  I can't claim to
have cloned it, but am iterating toward it!

Note that Sierra Nevada Draught Ale is SG 1.048 while Sierra Nevada
Pale Ale (bottled) is SG 1.052.  The Draught also tastes a bit
sweeter to me than the bottled.

Malts used are U.S. 2-row, dextrin malt (U.S. cara-pils), and
crystal malt.  I don't know the proportions used at Chico, but it
seems to me that you shouldn't be too heavy-handed with the crystal
malt, as I don't find a pronounced caramel flavor in SNPA, in
contrast to, say, Mendocino's Red Tail Ale.  

Hops are Perle for bittering and Cascade for flavor/aroma.  Perles
are a fine general-purpose medium-alpha bittering hop, while
Cascades are signature hops in SNPA, Liberty Ale, and other
American pale ales.  

Yeast is Wyeast "American" ale or bottle-cultured SNPA.

An all-grain recipe for a 5-gallon batch goes as follows (your
mileage may vary):

8 pounds U.S. 2-row pale malt
1 pound U.S. cara-pils
0.5 pounds crystal malt 80L

0.8 ounces Perle (alpha 6.5) at 60 minutes
0.5 ounces Cascade (alpha 6.3) at 30 minutes
0.5 ounces Cascade (alpha 6.3) at 2 minutes
0.5 ounces Cascade final addition (see below)

yeast is Chico yeast

In the mash, aim for a starch conversion temperature of 153 - 155
degrees F for some residual sweetness in the beer.  As for the hop
schedule, factors such as hop freshness and vigor of boil will
affect the final beer.  To my palate, SNPA is a medium-bitter beer,
not high-bitter beer, so something like 35 IBUs seems to be a good
target. 

Regarding that final hop addition, I believe that Chico runs the
hot wort through a hopback with some fresh hops in it, so you might
rig up a homebrewer's gadget equivalent of a hopback.  Or, you
might add the final addition at flame off and let the hot wort sit
for 10 minutes with the lid on before chilling.  Or, you might try
dry-hopping.  I'm not claiming that these will produce an
equivalent effect, but they are all attempts to give the beer some
of the requisite hop flavor and aroma.  




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Date: Wed, 26 May 93 10:25:36 -0500
From: bliss at pixel.convex.com (Brian Bliss)
Subject: SN


There have been a few request for Sierra Nevada Recipes the past
two days.  I pulled this off the hbd last December - it's one
of those articles worth saving.  Jack Schmidling asked about
elaborating on "american hop flavor".  My advice is to go
out and buy a 6 pack of assorted SN beers, and see if you can
pick out the ones made with cascade finishing hops and/or
dry-hopped:

- -------------------------

Summerfest

alcohol content:  3.5% by weight
starting gravity:  11.5 plato (about 1.046)
ending gravity:  2.7 plato
yeast:  lager
bittering hops:  perle
finishing hops:  hallertauer
malts:  2-row barley malt, dextrin malt

Pale Bock

alcohol content:  5.2% by weight
starting gravity:  16 plato (about 1.064)
ending gravity:  3.7 plato
yeast:  lager
bittering hops:  perle
finishing hops:  mt. hood
malts:  2-row barley malt, dextrin malt

Pale Ale

alcohol content:  4.4% by weight
starting gravity:  13 plato (about 1.052)
ending gravity:  2.8 plato
yeast:  ale yeast
bittering hops:  perle
finishing hops:  cascade
malts:  2-row barley malt, dextrin malt, caramel malt

Porter

alcohol content:  4.7% by weight
starting gravity:  14.5 plato (about 1.058)
ending gravity:  3.5 plato
yeast:  ale yeast
bittering hops:  nugget
finishing hops:  willamette
malts:  2-row barley malt, dextrin malt, caramel malt, chocolate  
        malt, black malt

Stout

alcohol content:  4.8% by weight
starting gravity:  16 plato (about 1.064)
ending gravity:  4.5 plato
yeast:  ale yeast
bittering hops:  chinook
finishing hops:  cascade
malts:  2-row barley malt, dextrin malt, caramel malt, black malt

Celebration Ale

alcohol content:  5.1% by weight
starting gravity:  16 plato (about 1.064)
ending gravity:  3.9 plato
yeast:  ale yeast
bittering hops:  chinook
finishing hops:  cascade
dry hops:  centennial and cascade
malts:  2-row barley malt, dextrin malt, caramel malt

Bigfoot Ale

alcohol content:  10.1% by weight
starting gravity:  23 plato (1.092)
ending gravity:  6 plato
yeast:  ale yeast
bittering hops:  nugget
finishing hops:  cascade
dry hops:  centennial and cascade
malts:  2-row barley malt, caramel malt


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Date: Wed, 26 May 93 08:57:33 PDT
From: "Tom Childers" <TCHILDER at us.oracle.com>
Subject: Hoegaarden Replication


In HBD 1149, Steve Lovett asks about reproducing Hoegaarden Grand Cru with
wheat malt.  A few months ago, I posted a barley malt extract wit beer
recipe, and promised to try the same with wheat malt.  Well, the first
wheat malt batch finished a couple of weeks ago, and my friends and I are
quickly wiping out the results.  The wheat "bite" is great.  This beer
has a somewhat higher FG than Hoegaarden Grand Cru, so you may want to cut
back the malt and/or honey to try and emulate Hoegaarden accurately.
 
 
     Tamalpais Wit, v2.0
 
4-1/2 lb light dry wheat malt extract
2 lbs    orange honey
1 oz     Hallertauer/N. Brewer
         7.5 HBU boiling hops
1 oz     Hallertauer/Hersbrucker
         3 HBU finishing hops
1-1/2 oz crushed coriander
1/2 oz   dried orange peel
Belgian Ale yeast (Wyeast 1214)
 
Bring 5 gallons of water to a boil, then add first three ingredients.
Boil 45 minutes, then add 3/4 oz. coriander.  Boil 10 minutes, then
add remaining coriander and orange peel.  Boil 5 minutes, and add the
finishing hops for a final 2 minutes.  Chill immediately to 75 F,
areate into 5 gallon carboy, and add yeast.  Ferment using blow-off
method, then prime with 3/4 cup corn sugar and bottle.
 
The keys to making this beer are (1) use belgian ale yeast, (2) crush the
coriander yourself, so it is nice and fresh, (3) use orange honey, and (4)
use the best Hallertauer hops you can find.  Papazian's basic recipe is
very flexible; I've made 5 different beers so far by changing the malt
combinations, and I've liked them all.  I like this one the best so far.
 
Tom Childers
Mill Valley, CA


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Date: Wed, 26 May 1993 10:59:49 -0800
From: pohl at unixg.ubc.ca (Derrick Pohl)
Subject: Cleaning stainless steel

In HBD # 1147, Al (korz at iepubj.att.com) writes re cleaning stainless steel
vessels:

>Right.  I don't even use soap on mine -- just a non-stick-safe scrubbing
>pad (more gentle than a scouring pad) and elbow grease.  The only things
>in there are a little scortched malt and some Beerstone -- if it gets really
>bad, maybe I'll use a bit of cola (for the acid) or if one of my batches of
>pseudo-lambik goes super acetic on me, I'll use it for scrubbing the kettle
>(that's what the lambik brewers do!).

What about using a copper "Kurly Kate"-type scrubbing pad?  If copper is
softer than stainless steel (and I assume it is) then it shouldn't be a
problem.  Or is it?  Also, how about baking soda?

- -----
Derrick Pohl (pohl at unixg.ubc.ca)
UBC Faculty of Graduate Studies, Vancouver, B.C.


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Date: Wed, 26 May 1993 10:54:17
From: garetz at brahms.amd.com (Mark Garetz)
Subject: IBU Calculations

I'm working on the HopTech catalog, and I'm putting in a formula for
calculating IBUs.  I'm using Rager's formula (Zymurgy Hops Special Issue) as
a base, but I think his utilization table is quite optimistic.  I have
worked up a preliminary set of numbers to replace his, but before I
prejudice you with my estimates, what are yours?  Do you feel his numbers
are OK or too low (I know they're not too high)?  If they're too low, what
percentage should they be reduced?  Final table will be posted back to HBD.

TIA,
Mark at HopTech 


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Date: Wed, 26 May 1993 10:48:39
From: garetz at brahms.amd.com (Mark Garetz)
Subject: Yeast vs. Trub, Materials List, SNPA Hops

Con Copas talks about racking the wort off the cold break vs. yeast
performance:

Let me throw this in:  A brewer friend (who also happens to be the winemaker
at a major Napa Valley winery) ran some controlled experiments on the
performance of yeast in wort where some of the break material had been left
in the fermenter, and where the break material had been completely filtered
out.  His results showed that the yeast definitely needed something from the
break material.  The "pure wort" did not ferment well at all.  Both were
oxygenated, the yeast was pitched from a starter (lab cultured) and the
tests were conducted in the mini-lab of this winery.  Sorry I don't have the
details on what he meant by "didn't ferment well at all" but it doesn't
really matter.  The point is not to worry about getting rid of all the trub
before pitching.

Al Corzona throws another chart into the ring....

After seeing Don's post, I was particularly concerned about the "severe
effect on polypropolene" because HopTech is making a Hop Back out of
polypropylene becuase of its excellent high temperature characteristics.  I
hauled out my Grainger's catalog and had a look at the list.  Sure enough
there it was polypro=severe effect with beer (with a note that beer is OK at
less than 72F).  Now a hopback really doesn't work with "beer" but wort. 
The list also contains "cane syrup" but it also got a severe rating with
polypro.  Anyway, I was concerned.  Turns out Grainger's reprinted the list
from the Little Giant Pump Co.  (this reference is actually printed in the
Grainger's catalog).  So I called TLGPC.  They didn't know squat about the
list and told me it was provided by Phillips 66.  So I called Phillips. 
After being bounced around to about 12 divisions, I finally found the one
that deals with polypropylene (they make it).  BTW, *no one* at Phillips
ever heard of the list and they guess it must have been done a long time
ago.  Anyway, after a few minutes of begging that I should be connected to a
materials engineer (not a sales "engineer") I got some helpful folks in one
of their labs.  Turns out the guy who knows the most about polypro is also a
homebrewer!  Well it was certainly a relief not to have to spend 1/2 hour
explaining what a hop back, wort etc. were!  Bottom line:  The chart is
wrong as regards to polypro.  Beer won't hurt it or react with it (neither
will wort).  This guy said that polypro's barrier properties weren't that
good and thought the chart might have been inferring that you wouldn't want
to store carbonated beer in it for long periods because it would go flat. 
However, carbonated water is "OK" for polypro on the chart.  We couldn't
figure it out.  Now I know why Grainger's has a disclaimer as to the chart's
accuracy right up front.  For what it's worth...YMMV.

JC asks about the SNPA recipe:

I'm not sure what they use for bittering (I think Galena but don't quote
me).  For finishing and aroma they use Cascade.  Lots of it late in the
boil.  And then they run the wort through a hop back charged with even more
Cascade.  They do not dry hop this beer.  If I were trying to get an SNPA, I
would do something like this:

8 lbs Pale Malt
 .5-1 lb 40 degree Crystal
Optionally a pound of carapils for more body.
40-45 IBUs of Galena, Cluster or Cascade, boiled 90 minutes
1 oz Cascade 10 minutes
1.5 oz Cascade 5 minutes
2 ozs Cascade in a hop back (or steeped if no hop back)
SNPA yeast cultured from a bottle, or Wyeast Chico Ale

Personally, I'd use a single infusion mash at 150-153 degrees.

Mind you, this is off-the-cuff and merely a guess.

Mark at HopTech

coming soon!  HopTech gets its own domain (hoptech.com)....
 


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Date: Wed, 26 May 93 11:16:19 PDT
From: rcristad at weber.ucsd.edu (Riccardo Cristadoro)
Subject: Wheat Beer

	I'm geting the ball rolling on my next brew---A Wheat Beer.  I would
appreciate tips and recipes for a real wheat bear with lots of clove
aroma and taste.  I would appreciate an all-grain (infusion) recipe.
What hops should I use (Hallertau)?  Also, I plan to use Bavarian
Wheat #3056 yeast, what is the correct temp to ferment?  Thanks in
advance for all of the help.
	While I'm here, I would appreciate some suggestions on
getting my transfer hose (plastic-type) clean and clear.  It always
seems to go cloudy.  Thanks.
STEVE BOXER

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Date: Wed, 26 May 93 14:54:51 EDT"
From: Gary S. Kuyat <gsk at sagan.bellcore.com>
Subject: New Jersey Brewpub Bill
Full-Name: Gary S. Kuyat

Two bills are being "read" in the New Jersey State Legislature:
 #2354 in 2nd reading before Assembly
 #614  in 2nd reading before Senate

Both are voted on June 10th of this year.
These bills will allow "brewpub" establishments to operate in NJ.

I have asked my Rep to send me more info.  I will post details and
the results of the vote after the 10th.
- --
 -Gary
  gsk at sagan.bellcore.com

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Date: Wed, 26 May 93 14:10:37 CDT
From: "Kirk Oseid [ mf11205 MechE ]" <oseid at s1.msi.umn.edu>

Subject: BPubs in Cour d'Alene

Fellow Brew Enthusiasts:

My wife and I will be spending several days in
Cour d'Alene in the middle of June.  Can anyone
direct us to BrewPubs in that area?

		TIA,

		Kirk

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Date: 26 May 93 09:59:05 EST
From: "Anderso_A" <Anderso_A%55W3.CCBRIDGE.SEAE.mrouter at seaa.navsea.navy.mil>
Subject: Re-using yeast & commercial beer storage

Message Creation Date was at 26-MAY-1993 14:32:00
      
          Greetings,
               I have some questions in two basic areas.  Any insight
          would be appreciated.

          1.  I'm lazy. I would like to re-use my yeast as opposed to
          propagating multiple yeast colonies.  I rack my beers to
          2ndary fermentors and usually use polyclar on my lighter
          colored beers.  Should the yeast cake I save come from my
          primary or secondary fermentor?  I see problems with each:
               a. Primary will have more cold-break, dead yeast,
          and hop residue than secondary.
               b. Secondary will have plastic particles due to the
          polychlar.  (Should I use isinglass, instead?)

          2.  I've a couple questions regarding the storage of
          commercial beer (You know - that stuff ridiculed in the
          HBD).  Based upon the assumption that the vast majority of
          commercial beer is filtered and pasteurized is there any
          problem with storing the beer in an 80 degree dining room
          versus a 60 degree basement (assuming light is not a
          factor)? How about a 100 degree attic?
               Also, if I keep one 6-pack in my 65 degree basement as
          a control and then daily rotate a second 6-pack between my
          35 degree refrigerator and my 80 degree laundry room will
          any differences in taste result?  Will the rotated beer
          deteriorate more quickly?  Will a commercial beer which is
          constantly changing in temperature by as much as a 50 degree
          delta deteriorate more quickly than beer constantly sitting
          in a warm room?
               Finally, how different would the test results be if I
          chose to also sacrifice (shudder!) a 6-pack of home-brew in
          this experiment?

               I appreciate the help & information.

          Andy A


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Date: Wed, 26 May 93 15:24:01 EDT
From: "Anton Verhulst" <verhulst at zk3.dec.com>
Subject: soot: take 2


I'd like to thank all who responded to my cajun cooker soot problem.  I was 
gratified at the response - 8 to 9 people sent me email with suggestions.

First of all, I was a boy scout :-) and I know the soap trick.  I was 
not clear in my posting - it's not the cleaning of soot from the pot that
is my problem.  The cleaning is easy.  After chilling the wort, I put a large 
strainer over my primary and pour the wort directly from the 10 gallon brew
kettle into the primary.  This usually means that I get soot on my hands and
clothes.  THAT's my complaint.

Two people wrote to me suggesting that a possible solution was to reduce the
size of the hole in the gas jet from 5/64" to 1/16" (when will the U.S. move
into the 20th century and use metric?).  I did this and noticed an improvement
in flame quality at low gas settings.  I'm planning to brew a batch this weekend
and see if the improvement is enough or if I'll be shopping for a new cooker.

Drew Lynch sent me a nice summary of different types of propane cookers
which I'm happy to include (with Drew's permission):

 "In my search, I found three types of burners.

  The "real" cajun cooker (what you have) has a single flame.  It has
the benefit of the highest total heat output(as high as 200,000BTU!),
and the detriment of no real adjustability. They also are very
inefficient gas-wise at the "simmer" setting.  There is no mixture
adjustability.  This is the cause of your soot problems.

  The "stove" type burner has ~100 individual flames.  It usually has
the lowest output (~20,000-40,000 BTU) and the best adjustability.  It
is very gas efficient.  The mixture need not be adjusted on these.

  The King Kooker company produces a hybrid of the two types(which I
have).  It has approximately 30 individual flames, 145,000 BTU and
decent adjustability. The efficiency is in between the two listed
above. To get an ideal burn, the mixture adjustment plate would be
moved when you switch from "nuke" to "simmer".  In practice, the wide
open setting seems to work well enough all the time, and I get minimal
soot marks on the bottom of my brewkettle.

  I am very happy with the model I have.  For a given batch, I heat 5
gallons of mash water to 178F, 5 gallons of sparge water to 180F, heat
the mash from 156F to 170F, and do 90 minute boils of 5-7 gallons.  I
get about 4-6 batches from a single propane tank (20lb?).  I would
return the burner you have, if you can, and try to procure the more
adjustable version.

  I have a local (Los Altos, Ca.) source for the King Kooker of the
"right" type: Fermentation Frenzy, (415)941-9289.  Where are you
located?"

Thank you Drew.


Tom Stolfi wrote that he has a _Camp Chef Cooker_ "stove type" burner
with 35,000 BTUs that will boil 5 gallons of cool water in about 20
minutes and gets NO soot on his pot at all.  He also mentions that the
same company makes a 135,000 BTU unit.


Well, that it folks.  I wish I'd known the above info before I bought
my cooker.  I'll report the results of boiling with my modified King
Kooker next week.

Good brewing,

Tony V.


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Date: Wed, 26 May 93 15:05 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: cold break/starters/fermenter geometry/faucets/fruit sanitation & HSA

Raymond writes:
>js writes (on cold break separation)
>
>>I also suspect the whole discussion is irrelevant to those of us using 
>> imersion chillers as the hot/cold break is conveniently left behind in the 
>> kettle when the chilled wort is drawn off.
>
>Actually, immersion chillers do not give a well-defined cold break due
>to the more gradual temperature drop. 

I get a very well-defined cold break with my immersion chiller (50' x 1/4"),
so much so, that it looks like French Onion soup till I stir gently.

******************
ROB writes:
>I want to make a yeast starter for my next batch, the problem is that I 
>dont have any DME to make it with. Can I just use a corn sugar/water 
>solution. If so who much water and corn sugar. Also is it true the more 
>sugar the higher the yeast count. I use dry yeast, does this take longer to 
>start? How long do you leave the starter before pitching? 

I suggest you  get some DME and then first re-hydrate the dry yeast in
104-110F sterile water for 15 to 30 minutes before adding it to a 1020
DME starter for a day or two.  Starters made from corn sugar have proven
to make for a sizable yeast mass, but that the yeast subsequently has
difficulty fermenting mixed-sugar (glucose, fructose, maltose, etc.) wort.
It's best to start on wort.  There are arguments on whether it's better to
start the yeast on a 1020 OG starter or on a starter that is more like
the wort they will be fermenting.  I use a 1020-1030 OG starter.  I've
found that the yeast starts faster in lower gravity starters (this is
in-line with Wyeast Labs' findings and recommendations).  I believe that
the ideal situation would be stepped-gravity starters -- first 1020, tben
1030, then 1040, finally pitching into the wort, but I don't go through
all that trouble.

********************
JC writes:
>1)  I have been doing some experiments fermenting in 5 gal glass carboys and
>    5 gal SS soda kegs.  I have found that the beers in the soda kegs all take
>    much longer to ferment out.  I think it is do to the geometry.  Has
>    anyone else noticed this?  I have heard of some people fermenting in

DeKlerk wrote that fermenter geometry is an important factor and says
basically that a short, wide fermenter is better than a tall narrow one.
I know that George Fix ferments in 1/4 barrel kegs partly for this very
reason.

***************
Paul writes:
>	In reference to fridges or freezers and the cold air falling out when
>you open the door, I finally broke down and installed a stem tap through the
>door of the keg fridge.  It is the thrill of a lifetime, drilling a hole
>through the fridge door!  It was so much fun (and the tap looked so much more
>professional than fumbling inside with the hoses) that I sprung for two more. 
>I justify the cost by the electric I will save during the 10 month Galveston
>summer, not opening the door to draw a beer.

I had considered this also, but backed-off when I read that some people have
problems with mold in the faucet.  I've found that if I don't drink from a
particular keg for two weeks or so, a big glob of mold forms in the faucet.
This, despite the fact that I have my faucets INSIDE the fridge at 54F.
If you use the faucets every day, you shouldn't have any problems.

*****************
Tom writes:

>In HBD 1146, Bryan Kornreich asks
> 
>> How on Earth do you press your fruity wort (to get the juice out of the pulp)
>> with any hint of sterility.
> 
>I keep my (large wooden) spoon and strainer in the pot during the end of the
>boil to sterilize them.  Since the Wheat Berry recipe used a partial boil,
>you can just take the implements out, set the strainer on the funnel, and
>start pouring the wort.  When the strainer fills with hops and fruit, I
>press it with the spoon to extract the last bit of fruit juice, then toss
>the strainer contents and repeat the process until all of the wort is in
>the carboy.  Then I slap a clean cork in, let it sit for a few hours to get
>to pitching temperature, and add about a quart of yeast starter.

This implies that you pour hot wort through a strainer.  If this is true,
then you are aerating the hot wort (Hot-Side Aeration or HSA) which is
causing a considerable amount of oxidation of the wort.  George Fix has
a great article in a recent Zymurgy on Hot-Side Aeration, which explains
in detail the problems with HSA.

Al.

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Date: Wed, 26 May 93 16:43:09 EDT
From: jdsgeoac at osg.saic.com (Karen Jdsgeoac Hyrum GEOACOUSTIC)
Subject: RE: Fridge Question

JC Ferguson asked a few days ago how to modify a double dorm fridge to
fit 5 gallon kegs. I did this a few years ago as follows:

The U shaped freezer was attached to the to of the fridge with 4 clips.
Remove these clips.  The freezer/cooling plate is now supported by the
incoming freon line.  I carefully pushed the U shaped freezer down and
back so that the large part of the plate was parallel to the back of the
fridge.  This operation is tricky since there is some dange of crushing
or splitting the freon line.  I however had no problem , and the fridge
has been working fine for about two years like this.

Hyrum Laney


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Date: 	Wed, 26 May 1993 05:07:01 -0800
From: scott at fm.gi.alaska.edu (Scott Stihler (USGS analyst))
Subject: SO4 and hops

Hello folks,

I've been working on an article on hops for the Fairbanks homebrew club's
newsletter and I've come across several references to the fact that SO4 somehow
enhances hop bitters. However, I've never come across any explanation as to why
this is the case. Does anybody out there have any comments in this regard?

 - Scott Stihler

P.S. Should anybody in the unlikely event be in Fairbanks on June 19th, we're
     having our annual summer equinox meeting and you're invited.


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Date: Wed, 26 May 93 14:13:51 PST
From: Hugh R Bynum <Hugh_R_Bynum at ccm.hf.intel.com>
Subject: More soot on pots...

A number of articles in HBD 1149 suggested the tried-and-true Boy Scout
method for easily removing soot on SS pots.  Keep in mind that if your
propane cooker is burning with a yellow flame and making enough soot to
be a problem, it's also generating some carbon monoxide.  CO is
generated when hydrocarbons (e.g., propane) don't burn completely due to
insufficient oxygen.  It's colorless, heavier than air, and highly
poisonous.  In nonlethal amounts, prolonged exposure can leave you with
nausea and a splitting headache.

If you want to solve the problem and not just the symptom, try adjusting
the damper plate on the gas inlet to your cooker.  On my "Superior"(tm)
propane burner, it's a slotted disk that fits over the air intake on the
cast iron part of the burner, just behind the gas inlet valve.  Fully
open, there's enough air to blow the flame off the jets; closed down, it
burns bright yellow.  With a few tweaks, I was able to get it adjusted
for a clean blue flame through the full range between a simmer and full
throttle.  While the Superior burner is rated at 35,000 BTU, I would
guess that the 200,000 BTU King Kooker is fairly adjustable through its
full output range as well.  Good luck!

Hugh Bynum
Portland, Oregon
hugh at littlei.intel.com

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Date: Wed, 26 May 93 17:12:04 EDT
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu>
Subject: Brewing Techniques address

I figured this address had appeared enough times recently, but mail I
got today has convinced me otherwise.  Here it is, again:
                        Brewing Techniques
                        P. O. Box 3076
                        Eugene, OR 97403
A charter subscription is $24/6 issues (1 year).

=S

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1150, 05/27/93