FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Ferment too quick?!? (Paul_Szabady)
  bleach and ss (donald oconnor)
  breadmachines (Kim_Kiesow)
  Brewing Techniques ("Bob Jones" )
  Manhattan Brewing/Bud in Europe (Jim Driscoll)
  re-using yeast ("JSDAWS1 at PROFSSR")
  New Orleans Brewpubs (Jim Bayer)
  Hoegaarden Replication ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Marigold Ale (geotex)
  Close brush with disaster (Phillip Seitz)
  Rot on hops leaves? (Subbakrishna Shankar)
  Correcting My Previous Post about IBUs (Mark Garetz)
  Beer in Japan (Bryan Kornreich)
  hoptech.com now active! (Mark Garetz)


Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
  to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
  you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU),
  then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! 
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
Archives are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu.
  (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from
  listserv at sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a
  message to that address to receive listserver instructions.)
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 May 93 17:15:58 edt
From: Paul_Szabady at DGC.ceo.dg.com
Subject: Ferment too quick?!?

Message:
I was wondering if anyone out there in HBD-land has tried the recipe 
for Armenian Imperial Stout from TNCJOHB.   I just brewed a batch 
using this recipe this past sunday night.  I pitched the yeast (that 
came with the "M&F Old ALe Kit" first thing monday about 6:30am.  By 
about 8pm, I had a nice ferment going.  Tuesday am, I switched from an
overflowing airlock to a hose and pan of water due to an extremely 
vigorous ferment.  Wed at about 1am I switched back to my airlock and 
was pleased with a "once every 15sec glug".  By noon on wed, I seem 
to have practically stopped fermenting.  I've been making homebrew 
for about 6 years now and have never seen a recipe with this amount 
of malt (almost 11 lbs - $33.00 for supplies!!!) finish soooo quick.  
Barely 54hrs.  I'm thinking maybe I should've spent a little more and 
got a better yeast.  Any suggestions/comments????  Should I pitch 
more yeast???   I broke my hydrometer a while ago and haven't 
replaced it yet so I don't have any sg readings.
Email direct or post...TIA ps



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 26 May 1993 23:18:49 -0500
From: donald oconnor <oconnor at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: bleach and ss



i'd like to clear up some confusion evident in al's post yesterday.  al's
confusion is significant, although understandable.

al is confused regarding sodium hypochlorite, chlorine water and bleach.
bleach is a dilute, about 5%, aqueous solution of sodium hypochlorite.  
chlorine water is water with hypochlorous acid.  sodium
hypochlorite is the sodium salt of the acid.  i doubt that anyone is using
either sodium hypochlorite or chlorine gas for sanitizing their SS pots
or kegs.  although the reactivity of chlorine water and sodium
hypochlorite with SS is mildly interesting and contained in both the 
cole-parmer and granger catalogs, it's not pertinent to the issue.  
as i mentioned earlier, the table in the granger catalog suggest there
is no reactivity between 304 and 316 ss and bleach.  curiously, the 
cole-parmer table al has is in perfect agreement on this point.  
it's under "chlorox (bleach)".

my own experience agrees with the data in al's coleparmer table and the
granger catalog.  i used to use about 1 teaspoon of bleach per gallon 
of water in sanitizing kegs (304 ss) and have observed no effect whatsoever
with exposures typically of 30 minutes to 1 hour.  it is best to be
cautious however.  it's easy to confuse aluminum for SS and the granger
catalog suggests bleach is reactive with aluminum.  curiously, the cole-
parmer catalog says that bleach does not react with aluminum.  these
tables are only guidelines.  no details as the conditions of the test
such as length of exposure are given. 

al is also confused about the nature of silicon and silicone.  the one with
the 'e' has a long 'o' as in conehead.  although they are spelled similarly, 
the difference between silicon and silicone is similar to the difference 
between graphite and plastic.  al's confusion led him to erroneously 
state that there is no reactivity between beer and silicon.  closer examination
of the cole-parmer table will reveal that there is no reactivity between beer 
and siliconE.  as i said earlier, the granger catalog indicates that beer is 
reactive with silicon but who cares.


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 27 May 93 00:23:46 edt
From: Kim_Kiesow at DGC.ceo.dg.com
Subject: breadmachines

Message:
Thanx for the recipes I received for beerbread using my machine. And 
as far as using the "goop" from the bottom of the fermemter(sp?)it 
sounds like the breadmachines do not allow enough time for the bread 
to rise properly. I will most likely give it a try anyway. :*}



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 27 May 93 08:12:46 PDT  
From: "Bob Jones" <novax.llnl.gov at novax.llnl.gov>
Subject: Brewing Techniques

Is anyone at brewing Techniques reachable via email? Someone knowledgable
about subscription info. that is.

Bob Jones

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 27 May 93 11:21:06 -0400
From: driscoll at curacao.dartmouth.edu (Jim Driscoll)
Subject: Manhattan Brewing/Bud in Europe

Danial Roman asked for a scouting reported from the newly reopened
Manhattan Brewing Company ("New York's Working Brewery & Restaurant",
42 Thompson Street, New York, NY 10013, (212) 925-1515, Fax (212)
925-7051, Opens at 5:00pm for dinner, with lunch hours to be added
soon.)

Up from the street level a flight or two, you find an open space with
2 large (~100 BBL) copper kettles dominating a small dance floor, a
bar with hand pumps, some table seating in the center, and above the
bar additional table seating.  On tap are 5 ales, from which I sampled
the Brown Ale, India Pale Ale and their Amber Ale.  Mixed drinks and
wine can also be had from the bar, but their is no evidence of any
beer other than those house brewed.  I didn't stay for dinner, but the
menu, along with everything else, seems hardly changed from its
previous incarnation.

You might find Garrett Oliver running around in a white lab coat with
a patch marked MBAA (for the Master Brewers Association of the
Americas), which readily identifies him as the brewmaster.  Garret was
the former assistant brewer at Manhattan and he was kind enough to
take me up a floor and show me their brewery.  They have a 7 and a 12
BBL steam jacketed kettle with agaitation.  They mash in the M&F malt
in the kettle and do a temperature program mash (Michael Lewis of UC
Davis derides the term step-infusion mash as ``homebrew language'')
and then pump the mash to the lauter tun with a v-wire mesh false
bottom.  They use only whole hops in the boil.  Fermentation takes
place in open fermenters with top fermentaing yeasts.  From the open
fementors the green beer goes into one of their 15 or so 7 BBL grundys
in a cold room where it undergoes a secondary fermentation and is
racked to a serving grundy which dispenses to the bar below under
pressure.

Garrett is an enthusiastic brewer and mentioned some exciting and
unusual brews that he plans on producing once the new operation
settles down a bit.  When in the NY metro area you should support the
local brewers by checking this place out as well as Zip City
(Manhattan) and Mountain Valley Brewpub (Suffern, NY).

- ---

Richard Akerboom notes that AB would have to change the name of Bud in
Europe since the Czechs have rights to the name Budwiser there.  This
is in fact what they do.  If you grab a long neck ``Bud'' here the
label says Budwiser, but in Europe when you grab a ``Bud'' the label
says just that: Bud.  I guess they want to be their Bud too.
(Actually, the only place I have personally seen this Bud was in a
specialty beer store in Mechelen, Belgium.)

  Jim Driscoll
  Driscoll Brewing
  (908) 665-8333
  (908) 665-8355 Fax

Return to table of contents


Date: 27 May 1993 08:35:08 PST
From: "JSDAWS1 at PROFSSR" <JSDAWS1 at PB1.PacBell.COM>
Subject: re-using yeast

Due in part to things I've read here re; yeast culturing, I decided to try
an experiment with my last batch.  A couple weeks back, I took a 3 gal.
keg of SNPA-clone pale ale to a picnic.  It ocurred to me that, since the
beer was clean (and tasty) and had yeast cultured from an SNPA 6-pack,
why not just let the dregs sit in the keg under preasure at room temp
until I brewed again (last Saturday) then simply pop the lid, add 1 cup
sterile cool water, swish it around, and dump directly into the primary.
Fermentation started within 12 hrs and smells clean.  It's a slow ferment
as are most that I do with SNPA but smells clean.   Questions:
  -  can anyone see potentiial problems or drawbacks with this method
  -  how long might clean yeast be held under preasure this way before it
     loses viability.

One other question....  I recently bought WYEAST packs for both british
ale and Lonmdon ALe (forget the #'s).  Can someone tell me what the difference
in these yeasts are based on their experiences, and which styles of ales
they might match up best with.
Thx

|    If it's good for ancient druids runnin naked thru the woods      |
|   drinkin strange fermented fluids then it's good enough for me.    |
| JACK DAWSON  -  JSDAWS1  -  415 545-0299  -  CUSTOMER BILLING  (BG) |

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 27 May 1993 12:19:53 -0500 (CDT)
From: brewmstr at genesis.mcs.com (Jim Bayer)
Subject: New Orleans Brewpubs

Mary Dabney Wilson asks about brewpubs in New Orelans:

Mary,

I was just in New Orleans and there is a new(er) brewpub there called
Crescent City Brewhouse.  The place is very nice and the beer isn't
bad either.  There's also an oyster bar and live entertainment.  I
especially enjoyed the Weissbeer they had.  They also have a Marzen they
call Red Stallion.  If I recall correctly, you can get a sampler of all
of their current brews.  You can see the copper mash kettles on the first
floor and the stainless holding tanks on the second, but they don't give
any brewery tour (like Goose Island does in Chicago)

Be sure to check out the t-shirts.  I like the logo and the stallion 
on the back.  I bought one right away!

It's located between St. Louis (for sure) and Tolouse (I think) 
right off the waterfront (Decatur?).

Don't get confused about the Jackson Brewery (Jacks), it's just a
shopping mall conversion of a real brewery.  The only thing at Jacks
is Budmilloors.

Jim Bayer
brewmstr at genesis.mcs.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 27 May 93 14:00:08 EDT
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu>
Subject: Hoegaarden Replication

Randy Mosher suggests tossing 1/4c of flour into the boil to get the
typical haziness of a White beer.

I haven't tried it.

=S

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 27 May 93 14:28:44 EDT
From: <geotex at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Marigold Ale


Has anyone made Marigold Ale as listed on 6-2 in The Cat's Meow II?

I am thinking about starting up a batch, but I have never made such a 
high alcohol brew.  

I would be interested in hearing about the fermentation time (primary 
and secondary) and aging time (in bottles).  

Any other advice would also be appreciated.

Thanks!
Alex
geotex at engin.umich.edu

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 27 May 93 19:15 GMT
From: Phillip Seitz <0004531571 at mcimail.com>
Subject: Close brush with disaster

I'll set the scene:

Here I am at work, hustling to get things wrapped up so I can
head off tomorrow (Friday) for Belgium.  I'm looking forward to
lambic hunting, while my friends over there are combing the
countryside for rare and unusual brews made in farmhouses,
basements, garages and what have you for our week of
overindulgence.  I'm packing up two sixes of my own beer for
field testing, and bringing along several bottles of Celis for
presents.  In other words, all is nearly ready for a peak snob
beer experience.  Now it's time for lunch.

I walk out the door and down the street to our usual lunch place
and walk straight into................................a Bud Lite
commercial!  There they were...camera crews, mountains of
equipment, people trying to look important, cases and cases of
the vile stuff, workers everywhere hanging neon Bud Light signs
where there'd never been any before, and a gathering tribe of
bimbos and guys named Biff.

During lunch it turned out I'd sat down next to the crew, who
were reviewing takes from their recent shooting in Baltimore. 
Must've seen the Bud Light truck drive by Baltimore's Washington
Monument at least twenty times.  Lots of in-bar photos of guys
named Biff touting Bud Light.  Babes named Gina and Tiffany,
touting Bud Light.  Dogs, touting Bud Light.  My lunch companions
and I (NOT the crew!) could not contain our amusement and got
some nasty looks.  

That was close, though.  What would the homebrew world think if
my face showed up in an ad for this pathetic stuff?  It would be
almost as bad as being in a Sam Adams commercial!  (Of course,
nobody here knows what I look like, but...)

Looking forward to better things,
Phil Seitz
PSEITZ at MCIMAIL.COM

P.S. On second thought, perhaps I could infiltrate their evil
organization, swap some bottles, and change history?

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 27 May 93 16:53:18 -0400
From: sxs32 at po.CWRU.Edu (Subbakrishna Shankar)
Subject: Rot on hops leaves?




	I've noticed some yellow/brown rust like discoloration on the lower
leaves of my hops vines recently and am concerned (not worrying) that it
might be a symptom of a fungal infection. This is the second year in the
ground for these rhizomes, and the vines are already at 12-15 ft and
growing vigorously.  Last year we had a cold, wet summer here in Cleveland,
so the vines reached 10 ft only by the end of the summer and failed to
produce any flowers.  I also found plenty of slugs and aphids.  This year
the weather has been warmer and drier, and I have not seen any slugs or
aphids.  I have of course watered and fertilized the plants.

	Has anyone else seen this discoloration?  Is it a lack of a certain
nutrient or is it indeed a disease?  How can I safely get rid of it? 
Thanks in advance for your help.


- --
Subba Shankar
E-mail: sxs32 at po.cwru.edu (Internet)    U.S. Snail: Dept. of Neurosciences
Voice:  (216)368-2195                               Case Western Reserve U.
FAX:    (216)368-4650                               Cleveland, OH 44106

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 27 May 1993 17:24:55
From: garetz at brahms.amd.com (Mark Garetz)
Subject: Correcting My Previous Post about IBUs

Rick Garvin sent me a private email saying he was a bit confused about my
post requesting feedback on Jackie Rager's utilization chart.  I guess I
mixed up my "too highs" and my "too lows".  Let's try again:

I was asking whether people thought that Rager's chart numbers were too high
or not.  Then I went on to ask "if they were too low, by how much..."  I
really meant to ask:  If you think that Rager's numbers for utilization are
too high, then how much would you lower them?

Thanks again,

Mark from HopTech


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 27 May 1993 21:56:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bryan Kornreich <bkornrei at pennsy.med.jhu.edu>
Subject: Beer in Japan

Hey all,
    Firstly, I want to thank everyone who responded with their opinions on
the importance of secondary fermentations and with hints on obtaining
banana ester formation in beers.  
     I was wondering if anyone knows any place to obtain real beer in
Japan.  I have heard all sorts of horror stories about the big 4 brewers
over there hiding knowledge of real beer from the Japanese public.  All I
have ever seen there in the past are a small variety of American Pilsner
clones.  Pretty gross; it actually drove me to drinking lots of sake--not
necessarily a bad thing, but this summer I'm going to be over there for
two whole months, and I don't know if I'll make it without a true ale,
bock, or stout to tide me over until my return.  If anyone knows of a nice
brewpub, or even any sort of place with good beer in Tsukuba (where I'll
be) or Tokyo (not too far away)--I'd really appreciate it. 
    And if anyone who gets this list is in Tsukuba or Tokyo now, or will
be this summer, drop me an E-mail, and maybe we'll be able to set out in
search of beer together. 
                Thanks,
                     Bryan   



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 27 May 93 23:21:15 PDT
From: Mark Garetz <mgaretz at hoptech.com>
Subject: hoptech.com now active!

Just wanted to let you all know that HopTech now can receive email
directly and now has it's own domain.  You can email to: mgaretz at hoptech.com

Mark at HopTech


Return to table of contents



End of HOMEBREW Digest #1151, 05/28/93