FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Advertising in HBD (Martin A. Lodahl)
  Mash Tun  ("Mark S. Nelson")
  Request for brewpub information (Al Gaspar)
  Yeast differences! (WEIX)
  root beer (San Juan Island Lib)
  random bizarre question (Dick Dunn)
  Local packys/Why so technical? (Edward Croft)
  step infusion mashes (Jim Grady)
  new brew shop in nj (dave ballard)
  Alpha Acids vs. Harvest (Mark Garetz)
  Czech Budvar (waltman)
  AHA National First Round: Kingston, NY (Rick Garvin)
  Foaming beer from the keg! (brewerbob)
  selective growth media (ROB THOMAS)
  Freezer conversion for keg storage (Al Richer)
  Keg Manifolds annd Fittings (Jim Liddil)
  5 liter kegs--some complications (Phillip Seitz)
  Breckenridge (RON)
  Re: Short Original Gravity  . . . why ?? (Lynn Kerby)
  Dead beer (No more brewing action) ("Raj A. Upadhyaya")
  IPA (Ed Kesicki)
  Maple Syrup (JORGENS_DAVID)
  newsletter stuff ("JSDAWS1 at PROFSSR")
  Belgian Pils malt/ Dubble recipes (Gary Rich)
  Shake, shake, shake your wort! (Mike Lemons)
  RE: Belgian pils, summer brewing (James Dipalma)
  AHA National Contest (Rick Garvin)
  Bringing Homebrew into Canada (waltman)
  Tripel (Marc de Jonge)
  Protein/Nitrogen in Wheat (Geoff Cooper)
  Door County Beers (Diane Palme x2617)


Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
  to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
  you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU),
  then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! 
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
Archives are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu.
  (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from
  listserv at sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a
  message to that address to receive listserver instructions.)
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Jun 93 15:59:41 PDT
From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at PacBell.COM>
Subject: Advertising in HBD

Time to offer my own opinions concerning advertising in HBD.

The opinion has been advanced that advertising on HBD is a service,
that it provides information brewers find useful.  Where that
argument fails with me is in the fundamental difference between
information presented in the interest of profit, and information
presented solely to share something useful or interesting.  Having
something to gain beyond good beer creates a conflict.  A poster
with a commercial interest in the question will find it quite
difficult not to favor their own solution:  when all you have is a
hammer, everything looks like a nail.  Some posters (Kinney
Baughman, Glenn Tinseth, Russ Wigglesworth, Darryl Richman and
others) have handled this extraordinarily well, from my point of 
view, and I read their postings with confidence.  Others leave me
with the uncomfortable feeling that at least some of their postings
(and I can't always tell which ones) contain not real information,
but its counterfeit.  We've learned to expect advertising on the
more conventional media to be less than completely reliable;  for
this quality to slip unannounced into this forum compromises the
credibility of every scrap of information presented here, especially
for the newer brewers who are less prepared to sort fact from
factoid, and don't yet know who's selling what.  The principle of
"caveat lector" has always been useful here (mistakes, sometimes
_big_ ones, are made), but knowing that the posting you're reading
could be an "infomercial" doesn't exactly enhance the forum's value.

Just one man's opinion.

= Martin A. Lodahl   			Pacific*Bell Systems Analyst =
= malodah at Pacbell.COM          Sacramento, CA           916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1993 21:53:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Mark S. Nelson" <mnelson at eis.calstate.edu>
Subject: Mash Tun 

I'm a kit brewer second in the feild ready for the grain. Please give me
your best advice,  I really would like to know how to construct the best
system.  

Please send me your simple systems ieas via private e-mail, care of:

the person signed below.

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Everything you know is wrong.

Mark S. Nelson       nelsonm at axe.humboldt.edu      mnelson at eis.calstate.edu



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 26 Jun 93 07:47:51 EDT
From: Al Gaspar <gaspar at STL-03SIMA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Request for brewpub information


I am looking for information on starting a brewpub (the laws in Missouri
are beginning to look more attractive).  I would appreciate pointers to
books and other publications that would discuss all the ins and outs of
starting a brewpub.  Thanks much.

Cheers--

Al

- -- 
Al Gaspar       <gaspar at stl-17sima.army.mil>
USAMC SIMA, ATTN:  AMXSI-TTC, 1222 Spruce St., St. Louis, MO  63103-2834
COMMERCIAL:  (314) 331-4354  AUTOVON:  555-4354
relay1.uu.net!stl-17sima.army.mil!gaspar

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1993 13:48:59 -0500 (CDT)
From: WEIX at swmed.edu
Subject: Yeast differences!

Hi-
I am a novice brewer.  So far my friends and I have made three batches with 
different specialty grains, hops, and extracts.  I have been pretty happy 
with the results we get, but there is an odd overtaste (not really 
unpleasant but noticable) to the beer.  We 
have used dry Whitbread Ale yeast for all three batches. I know that 
different yeasts can give different flavors and that liquid yeasts come 
highly recommended, so for my next batches I will be using Wyeast American 
Ale(#1056), which supposedly gives a cleaner taste.
My question is: Does anyone have a chart/table/list of what characteristics 
the various common brewing yeasts (Wyeast, Whitbread, Edme, Red Star) have? 
I know that no one yeast is "better" than the others just different.  I 
also know that different yeasts work better with different styles.  Any 
info would be appreciated--company propaganda sheets are fine too.  Will 
summarize results and repost to digest if sufficient interest.
Hoppy brewing, y'all!
patrick <weix at swmed.edu>
p.s. Any other brewers at UT Southwestern? Phone x85050.

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1993 14:34:12 -800 (PDT)
From: San Juan Island Lib <sanjuan at wln.com>
Subject: root beer

	I have a library patron who would like to make root beer from
scratch, not using a commercial extract.  We found a Mother Earth News
article which lists sassafras, molasses and dandelion root as ingredients,
but does not give the method or proportions.
Can you help us out with a recipe?
Theresa Gemmer  E-mail address: sanjuan at wln.com




Return to table of contents


Date: 26 Jun 93 22:21:01 MDT (Sat)
From: rcd at raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn)
Subject: random bizarre question

According to my notes, homebrewing was finally legalized in the USA on
October 14, 1978.  Does anyone know *when* (in that day) it was signed,
and/or when (what time) the law took effect?

Email please; I'll summarize if I get >0 replies.  Consider it a contest;
the best reply wins an explanation of why I give a *%$ at  about this trivium.
 ---
Dick Dunn    rcd at eklektix.com   -or-   raven!rcd    Boulder, Colorado USA
   ...Simpler is better.

Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1993 11:37:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Edward Croft <CROFTE at delphi.com>
Subject: Local packys/Why so technical?

Wow, shortly after I stated that our local packys only supply the
Budmilloors types of beer, one local packy changed. What a smorgasborg. 
I can now select from Sierra Nevada, Schell, Anchor, and even Cave Creek. 
It seems they may have been reading HBD. They also started carrying limited 
homebrew supplies. It's great, now I am able to try some of the great beers
that I have been reading about.
- ------
Why so technical? I get HBD to get ideas on new brews, hear about taste tests,
and get other peoples ideas on how to improve the process. What I have seen 
lately is more of a chemistry class on the properties of idophors(?) and 
chlorine. I can see relating the impact some of the chemicals have on our
equipment, but don't you think it is getting a bit anal, when we start breaking
down the composition of the chemicals so as to get the optimum cleaning for
the least amount of chemical. Come on guys, I don't see the harm in a quarter 
cup of bleach to five gallons of water. It works for me. I don't need to know
how or why. Why don't the chemistry majors come up with the proper amounts 
between them and then post the summary. I want to hear more about using wheat
bases for fruit beers, or the proper way to prepare jalepenos for chili beer.
I want to hear about the new mini-keg systems, and yes even malt mills. Though,
we could lighten up a little with the advertising and sniping. 
- ------
Sorry about the flamette, but it has been bothering me of late. 
It's just that I think we need to see more of the types of input like 
Allan Wright's Amber Wheat Beer fruit base in HB1166. I have been contemplating
a fruit beer, and this may do the trick. But, Allan, blueberries in beer?
Let me know how that turns out.
Thanks for letting me get it out of my system.






Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 28 Jun 93 8:31:15 EDT
From: Jim Grady <grady at hpangrt.an.hp.com>
Subject: step infusion mashes

I am making plans for my first all-grain batch and have a few questions
about mash/lauter tuns.  I am planning on using the slotted copper
manifold for a combined mash & lauter tun.  I seem to have 2 options.
Put it in my mash kettle and make an insulated box to help maintain the
temp. or put it in a 12 gal. rectangular cooler.  Miller, in "The
Complete Handbook of Home Brewing," recommends the insulated box because
it allows you to do a step infusion mash.  I believe I have read in
these electronic pages that most of today's malts are so well modified
that a single infusion mash is fine for most styles.  Most discussion I
have seen concerns whether decoction mashes are worth the effort and
they can be done in a picnic cooler.

So, what's the verdict?  Does anybody do step-infusion mashes?  What are
the benefits?  Does anybody who does single-infusion mashes think
their beers [would | would not] benefit from a step mash?

Thanks for your help!
- --
Jim Grady                        |"Everybody thinks of changing humanity and
Internet: grady at hp-mpg.an.hp.com | nobody thinks of changing himself."
Phone: (508) 659-3409            |                      Leo Tolstoy

Return to table of contents


Date: 28 Jun 1993   7:38 EDT
From: dab at cc.bellcore.com (dave ballard)
Subject: new brew shop in nj


hey now-  good news for us central jersey homebrewers.  rumor has it (from 
chris at old bay) that red bank brewing supply will soon be opening a 
shop in highland park called brunswick brewing supply.  i don't have a 
date yet, but i'll let you know as soon as i get more info...

dab



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 28 Jun 93 0:37:09 PDT
From: Mark Garetz <mgaretz at hoptech.com>
Subject: Alpha Acids vs. Harvest

Mike Schrempp had asked if I (or anyone) had a curve showing the alpha
acid content vs. harvest time, trying to find out if a week or two's early
or late harvest would make a significant difference.  I said in a previous
post (which might be in this HBD, dunno since it's the weekend) that I
would try and find out.

Looked in my books and literature and talked to a grower late last Friday.
Despite the fact the most hop literature is oriented towards growing hops
rather than using them. one would think the answer would be there.  NOT!
Neither did the grower have any elightenment excpet to say "Why would you
harvest your hops at the wrong time?"  So it's like this:  They don't
harvest their hops before they're ready, so they don't care what the
alphas are before they hravest them.  And for this reason, no one seems to
have studied it.  They HAVE studied how the temperature of the growing
season affects the alphas (with the only positive correlation being high
temps in some month like May, well before harvest, but generally no
conclusive results) and the effect of various fertilizers on alphas (too
much nitrogen has a negative effect), but nothing I can find on harvest
time.  The literature also assumes that if you're a hop grower, you'll
know when the correct time to harvest is, so they don't bother to mention
how to tell when that time is.

Maybe Glenn Tinseth (who is on vacation, I seem to recall) can shed some
light here because the folks that he has direct access to (like Gail
Nickerson) are really hop breeders, not brewers.  Let's hope he reads this
when he gets back on-line.

Forgive me for a bit of a tangent here, but this is kind of like why there
aren't really any good formulas for predicting bitterness based on all the
variables.  The reason is that commercial breweries don't change their
process often, so that is in effect a constant.  They also have a lab to
measure (and tasting panels to confirm) the actual amount of bitterness
they're getting for a given hop addition.  They also have the luxury of
blending batches to correct mistakes and get better consistency.  So their
"formulas" are based on a lot of trial and error with measurement and
subsequent adjustment, with the knowledge that their yeast strain,
fermentation temperature, etc. will all remain constant and can be tightly
controlled.  So do they care to have a formula that they can plug in lots
of variables and get a reasonably accurate bitterness calculation?  No. 
So we don't have one either (yet).

Mark from HopTech

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1993 02:16:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: waltman at BIX.com
Subject: Czech Budvar

Earlier this month there was some discussion of the Czech "Budweiser". A couple
of years ago the NY Times had a long aricle about them and A-B. The jist of it
was that Budvar and A-B had signed an agreement in the 1930's dividing the use
of the Budweiser name: A-B got exclusive use in North America, Budvar on the
European Continent and everywhere else (including UK) was open. One interesting
factlet was the A-B was using the Budweiser name _before_ the _current_ brewry
in Ceske Budejovice was opened. This was A-B's claim to use the name.

As for Samuel Adams in Germany, it is the only American beer I have ever
come across. (I had one at the Bier Museem in Heidelberg which was a bit of
a sacrifice since they had Budvar on tap.)

Fred Waltman
waltman at bix.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 27 Jun 93 13:20:38 EDT
From: rgarvin at btg.com (Rick Garvin)
Subject: AHA National First Round: Kingston, NY


Has anyone seen their judging sheets from the AHA first round at
Kingston, NY? I sent in six entries ($48 plus shipping) and have
not seen anything back yet. I understand that there were a huge 
number of entries but I would like to drink my last four bottles
of Cherry Trippel if it is a loser.

I bet the only people that have heard anything yet are people 
moving onto the second round.

Moping today, Rick

Rick Garvin rgarvin at btg.com
BTG, Inc. Navy Programs Division, Vienna, VA 703-761-6630

Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 27 Jun 93 17:46:06 EDT
From: brewerbob at aol.com
Subject: Foaming beer from the keg!

From: BrewerBob at AOL.COM
For: Mark Parshall
Subj: Kegging - Foaming at the tap!
Re: HBD1157

Mark,


I know this note is a bit after the fact, I've been away. Perhaps it will
still be of some help to you with your foaming beer problem. 


I think you may have two problems. The reason for the foam may be  too high a
dispensing pressure into too small a tube. A 1/4 inch ID tube will cause a
loss of 
more than 1 PSI per foot so ten pounds at the tank will be about six 
pounds at the tap for a three foot hose. Smaller IDs will have even 
greater loss. A 3/16 will lose up to 3 PSI per foot.

The reason for low carbonation in your beer is improper method. You can 
not simply put the gauge at thirty pounds for three days. The guy that 
told you to shake was right about that. Try this: Be sure the beer is 
very cold. Attach your gas line and set the pressure to twenty-five 
pounds (for exact pressures for different styles of beer, see Miller's 
book). Now, with the line attached, you will hear bubbles in the tank 
when you tip it to it's side. After a few seconds, the bubbles stop. Now 
roll the tank on the floor and you will hear more bubbles! Keep doing this 
for about ten minutes or until the bubbles don't happen anymore or are very
few with each roll. Now the beer has ABSORBED the CO2! With the pressure 
still at 25 PSI, disconect the gas line and put the tank into the fridge for 
a day. Then bleed off all pressure, attach your gas line and set it at the 
serving pressure you need, about ten pounds for a three foot line.
Oh, by the way, be careful with the CO2 tank when you do this. Do not set it
on it's side! Be very careful that it remains upright or liquid CO2 may try 
to find it's way through your valve!

Good luck!         BrewerBob


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 28 Jun 93 16:21:08 MET DST
From: ROB THOMAS <THOMASR at EZRZ1.vmsmail.ethz.ch>
Subject: selective growth media

Hello all,
Here's just a quick note that DIFCO (
Here's just a quick note that DIFCO (US Tel: 800 5210851)
has come out with a growth medium that only
supports the growth of yeasts and moulds.
They sell it to people who want to check
airborn organisms. I just thought some of
you yeast breeders out there might be interested.
I have no other info, as I was just browsing
through a colleagues catalogue when I saw it.
Rob. Thomas.
P.S. usual disclaimers etc, etc, etc.
P.P.S. I don't know if DIFCO will supply to
private parties.

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 28 Jun 93 10:34:11 EDT
From: richer at desi.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Al Richer)
Subject: Freezer conversion for keg storage

 Greetings!

 In my wanderings I've managed to pick up a large upright chest freezer
for cooling my kegs, as well as eventually becoming a beer cooler.
Unfortunately for me, the shelves are fixed,as they are actually the
cooling elements..

 I need an opinion.

 I am considering putting the kegs in the freezer on the shelves on their
sides, with the head end raised 2 or 3 inches to provide a bit of clearance
for the CO2 dip tube. Has anyone tried this, or is there a reason that
I shouldn't do it?

  Inquiring minds want to know...

						ajr
					richer at hq.ileaf.com

- -- 

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1993 10:32:55 -0700 (MST)
From: Jim Liddil <JLIDDIL at AZCC.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Keg Manifolds annd Fittings

I obtained a straight sided keg from the scrap metal yard this weekend.  Now I
want to turn it into a boiler/lauter tun.  Has any one ever mounted an
EasyMasher(TM) on a keg?  What other manifold setups work well that can be
easily removed?  When one does large batches of 10 gallons does this mean one
has to sparge for 2 hours.  An suggestions public or private are welcome.

Jim

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 28 Jun 93 17:27 GMT
From: Phillip Seitz <0004531571 at mcimail.com>
Subject: 5 liter kegs--some complications

Like a number of people I recently purchased a set of 4 5-liter kegs from
Brew Ha Ha (Pottstown, Pa, 1-800-243-2620).  In general I have been happy
with the set, finding it reasonably well made and easy to use.  So far I've
kegged one batch, a bitter.  As with other kegs, Brew Ha Ha recommends using
1/3 to 1/2 cup priming sugar rather than the standard 3/4 cup for bottling.

When I kegged my batch I filled three kegs, and then reprimed and put the
rest into bottles.  The first two kegs worked fine, although the beer coming
out was a bit cloudier than the bottled version.  When I pulled out the
third kegs several days ago, I noticed that one are of the top had bulged
out, and that the corresponding area on the opposite side of the bottom
had also bulged.  The keg would no longer sit flat, and it was hard to get
the dispensing mechanism hooked on.

This would seem to be a problem stemming from excessive pressure.  However,
the beer was a 1.037 bitter that I'd kegged at 1.006 using 10 grams of sugar,
about 1/5 what Brew Ha Ha recommends for a standard beer.  In fact, the beer
itself seemed fine, and was not excessively carbonated.  I could only 
conclude that there was a flaw in this particular can that was not visible,
leading to a structural weakness.

I called Randy Martin, the proprietor of Brew Ha Ha, to see whether they'd
be willing to supply a replacement.  It appears there there have been some
other, similar problems, although, none of these fit the description of my
own.  They are now recommending that all kegs be stored in a cool or cold
place, that they be checked periodically (they say the plug will bulge out
before a problem with the can itself develops), and that all kegs should
be filled to within 1" of the top (not less, as more pressure develops).
They also remind people not to use the standard 3/4 cup of priming sugar.

By the way, Randy said he's sending me a replacement.  Assuming no additional
problems develop I can still say that I'm happy with the system, and might
even consider buying another regulator and possible another set of kegs.

Phil Seitz
PSEITZ at MCIMAIL.COM
Arlington, VA

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 28 Jun 93 14:30
From: RON.admin at admin.creol.ucf.edu (RON)
Subject: Breckenridge


A friend will be passing through Breckenridge and Denver Colorado soon.
He agreed to pick up some brew for sampling back here in Florida.
Could someone out there send me info. and flavors of some of the
local brewpubs in that area that sell their bottled beer
for outside consumption.

- --
ron at admin.creol.ucf.edu


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 28 Jun 93 12:08 PDT
From: lfk at veritas.com (Lynn Kerby)
Subject: Re: Short Original Gravity  . . . why ??


Well I would suspect that recipe.  Simple math reveals that the only
way that OG could be accurate given the ingredients is that the batch
size was 3.5 gallons, not 5.  Your numbers sound right (see below).

   9# DME ( at  1.039 pt/lb/gal)    yeilds     351 pts
   1# dark specialty grains      yeilds      20 pts   (if you are lucky)
                                 total      371 pts

   371 / 5 ~~ 74  or 1.074 (probably very close to what you got)
   371 / 3.5 ~~ 106  or 1.106  (probably very close to what was expected)

   NOTE: '~~' means approximately equal

Happy brewing.

PS - It always helps to sit down with a calculator for a few seconds
     before taking a recipe as gospel.

- --

     Lynn Kerby  -  {apple,amdahl}!veritas!lfk or  lfk at veritas.com

Disclaimer: Any and all opinions expressed herein are my own and do not
            necessarily represent the views of anyone, especially my employer.



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 28 Jun 93 19:13 GMT
From: "Raj A. Upadhyaya" <RUPADHYA+aLIF1%Allstate_Corp+p at mcimail.com>
Subject: Dead beer (No more brewing action)

I am working on a Cherries in the Snow Ale from "The New complete
joy of homebrewing"  I used a Brewer's Choice german ale liquid
yeast, and after three days of initial fermentation I have moved
it to a secondary fermenter.  After that time, the brewing
activity has decreased significantly.  Could the yeast be dead? 
Should I add more yeast?  Should I wait more?  It was pretty hot
(around 90 degrees) all three days, could that have killed the
yeast?  

This is my third batch and would welcome any replies on this.

Raj Upadhyaya

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 28 Jun 93 13:32:01 -0700
From: ek at chem.UCSD.EDU (Ed Kesicki)
Subject: IPA


At the recent Del Mar Fair, I overheard one of the judges talking about the
I.P.A. class;  He was saying that an IPA should be dryhopped to kingdom come,
so that the first thing that registers in the taster's palate and brain is
the dryhopping.

My question:  Is this a generally accepted fact?  Or is it just individual
preference.  I realize that IPA's should be strong and quite aggressively
hopped, but I didn't know one way or the other about dryhopping.  Anyone?

Ed Kesicki
San Diego, CA


Return to table of contents


Date: 28 Jun 93 11:46:00 +1300
From: JORGENS_DAVID at Tandem.COM
Subject: Maple Syrup

     Has anyone tried using "real" maple syrup in any recipes?  Are the
sugars fermentable?  Does anyone have any recipes which call for maple syrup?
How much per five gallon batch should be used?

replies can be sent to: (jorgens_david at tandem.com)

Thanks in Advance

DJ

Return to table of contents


Date: 28 Jun 1993 13:45:13 PST
From: "JSDAWS1 at PROFSSR" <JSDAWS1 at PB1.PacBell.COM>
Subject: newsletter stuff

*** Resending note of 06/28/93 13:44
SUBJECT: new beer options in SF

Two new developments have recently occurred on the San Francisco beer scene.

The first is a combination Japanese Dim-sum and microbrewery which recently
opened in the Financial District, at 333 Bush (at Montgomery) called the
Cafe Pacifica.  The atmosphere can be best described as Japanese-corpoate-
yuppie.  It's a small place, and the brewhouse is incredibly tiny.  They
produce three beers; a light ale which has a well-balanced malty sweetness
and fragrant hop aroma reminiscent of Devil's mountain railroad Ale, an
amber which is clean and kinda average, and a dark, which has a nice
chocolate finish and is, I believe, an excellent porter.  The food is good
altho not traditional Chinese Dim-sum.  Both the food and beer are reasonably
priced, making it an excellent downtown lunchtime option.

Rumor has it that a wealthy Tokyo restauranteur wanted to serve micro-brewed
beer in his restaurants, but the Japanese laws concerning brewing make it
impossible for micro-breweries to operate there.  Apparently, you must
produce 50 kabillion barrels or more a year to brew in Japan, so he set
his son up in San Francisco to begin brewing American beer for export to
Japan (his restaurants anyway..).  The pub is, apparently, a pilot brewery.

On another front, the new owners of the San Francisco Giants obviously
appreciate good beer, because now in section 15 you can find a stand which
specializes in micro-brewed beers.  Anchor Steam and Anchor wheat are
available on draught.  SNPA, Anchor Porter, and Devil's Mountain Railroad
and Devil's brew are available in the bottle.  Section 15 is located roughly
behind first base.  While a bit pricey, it's not much more expensive than
Schludweiler, and infinitely tastier.

|    If it's good for ancient druids runnin naked thru the woods      |
|   drinkin strange fermented fluids then it's good enough for me.    |
| JACK DAWSON  -  JSDAWS1  -  415 545-0299  -  CUSTOMER BILLING  (BG) |


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 28 Jun 93 14:51:54 PDT
From: Gary Rich <garyrich at qdeck.com>
Subject: Belgian Pils malt/ Dubble recipes

In HBD #1169 "William A Kitch" <kitchwa at bongo.cc.utexas.edu> queries:
>Subject: Belgian Malts: Pils -vs- ale

>A few weeks ago I did my first partial mash and made my best pale ale
>ever.  So I'm jumping right into my first all grain batch.  I could
>use a bit of advice from y'all.

>In his book _Belgian Ales_, Pierre Rajotte implies that that the basic
>malt used for most Belgian ales is a pils malt not an pale ale malt.
>I recall him writing that the pale ale malts are used for British ale
>contract brewed in Belgium.  However, his recipes simply say "pale malt".
>Any way, I'm going for a Belgium double with the following recipe for
>5 gals.
>  9 lbs Belgian Pils malt
>  2 lbs Belgian special-B malt
>  1/2 lb glucose
>  1/2 lb Piloncillo (Mexican brown sugar)
>  7 HBUs Bitter Hops
>  1/2 oz American Saaz finishing hops
>  OG 1.065 (I hope)
>  Chimay yeast

>Any comments would be appreciated.

For one, this beer is going to be *way* dark.  Special-B is > 200 lovibond.
This dubbel is going to come out darker than an inky stout (thumbnail
says ~85 L).  The Special-B is darn tasty, but 2 lbs may be overpowering.
On the other hand, it might be delicious.  What it won't be is a dubbel.

I've made a couple of all grain dubbels now, and have found a recipe that
seems to be in the ballpark for the style.

8 lbs Belgian Pils
1 lb  Belgian Cara-Munich
1 lb  Belgian Aromatic
1 lb  Munich
~1 lb Some kind of dark sugar (some day I'll find dark candi)
Hops are still under experimentation, but noble hops only.  Saaz,
        Styr-Goldings, Hallertau.



>My specific questions are:
>   1)  Should I do a protien rest esp. considering I'm using a Pils malt?

I usually do with this malt, but a fairly short one.  I hold it at ~123F
until there is a layer of clear stuff floating on top.  Usually this is
about 15 minutes.

>   2)  Will I have DMS problems from the Pils malt?  If so how do I
>       minimize them?

Dr. Fix wrote pretty extensively on the Pils malt in Brewing Techniques #1.
I have my copy at home but I seem to recall that this malt was low in
DMS precursors for a European lager malt, but higher than a pale ale malt.
I haven't experienced any noticable DMS with it, but most of the beers that
I've made with it have been pretty strongly flavored, maybe I missed it.



>   3)  I want some malt flavor in the finished beer.  What temp should
>       I use for sacrification (sp?)?

With 2 lbs of special-B, you are going to have lots of malt flavor, no
matter what temp you use for starch conversion.  In my recipe I use a fairly
low temp rest (~30 minutes at 145F and ~60 minutes at 152) and count on the
Munich/ Cara-Munich to make it nice and malty without being sweet or heavy.

We're both looking at 12lb/5gal recipes.  In my (limited) experience this is
the point where aerating the  at #% at  out of it becomes really important.  You
can't begin to rely on splashing into the primary to do the job.  Many methods
have been discussed, but what I use is my son's little asthma medicine
arosolizing machine.  Does an awesome job and has some built in filtration.
I paid $100 for the thing and my son uses it about once a month, so I get some
use out of it too.
=========================================================
A couple of thoughts of my own:
In my continuing quest for the perfect substitute for Belgian dark candi sugar
I thought about dark Karo Syrup <tm>.  It's dark and almost all corn syrup,
but what's the coloring from?  If it's just partially carmelized corn syrup,
it might be a good substitute?  If it's just dye or molasses, I'm not
interested in using it.

In the BT article on Belgian malts, Dr. Fix expresses  concern about the
differences between the fine and coarse grind extract amounts in the Aromatic.
 What does this mean?


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 28 Jun 93 13:57:58 PDT
From: mikel at netlink.cts.com (Mike Lemons)
Subject: Shake, shake, shake your wort!

I recently bought a 1 liter erlenmeyer flask to culture yeast in.  I got
two #9 rubber stoppers, one with a hole and one without.  The stoppers
nearly fall into the flask.  A nine-and-a-half would fit better.  I have
always used sterilized cotton in emtpy wine bottles for yeast cultures,
but the neck on this flask is too wide . . . I have to use an air lock.

First step:  Break the internal seal on a packet of liquid yeast and sit
it on top of an external modem, where it stays at 90 degrees F.  When
the packet swells up, make the starter.

I use 1/4 cup of dried malt extract.  I fill the flask up with water to
the 800 ml mark.  (1000 ml tends to boil over.)  I set it directly on my
gas stove and turn the flame up pretty high.  A long glass stirring rod
would be useful for stirring, but I don't have one, so I use a plastic
chopstick.  I boil it for about ten minutes, put the solid stopper in it
and set it in a sink full of cold water.  (Isn't pyrex wonderful?)

After the mixture had cooled, I started to swirl it around to increase
the dissolved oxygen in the liquid, when it dawned on me, "Why not shake
it instead?"  So I put my thumb over the stopper and just shook the hell
out of it.  I cut open the yeast packet and poured it in and attached
the air lock.

The next day, I had a very vigorous culture with lots of bubbles.  When
I brewed my five gallon batch of beer, I cooled the wort and poured it
into a plastic fermentation vessel with a tight-fitting lid.  Since I
have a solid stopper the size of the hole, I thought, "If it worked for
the starter, why not the wort?"  So I stuck the solid stopper in and
shook up the whole five gallons!  I poured the yeast starter in and
eight hours later, it was bubbling like crazy.  I've always had a
problem with long lag times, even when using liquid yeast and starter
cultures, but shaking the wort took care of it.

WARNING: Do not shake hot wort!  It will oxidize into cardboard.

Repeat: Liquid yeast and starter cultures did not decrease my lag times.
        Wort Aeration did.

- --                    
INTERNET:  mikel at netlink.cts.com (Mike Lemons)
UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!mikel
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 28 Jun 93 18:17:28 EDT
From: dipalma at banshee.sw.stratus.com (James Dipalma)
Subject: RE: Belgian pils, summer brewing


Hi All,

  Lots o' good stuff in HBD#1169.  William A Kitch writes:

>Any way, I'm going for a Belgium double with the following recipe for
>5 gals.
>  9 lbs Belgian Pils malt

>Any comments would be appreciated.  My specific questions are:
>  1)  Should I do a protien rest esp. considering I'm using a Pils malt?

	The Belgian pilsner malt is highly modified, a protein rest should
not be necessary.

>2)  Will I have DMS problems from the Pils malt?  If so how do I
>      minimize them?

  According to George Fix in his article on Belgian malts that appeared
in Brewing Techniques, the Belgian pilsner malt is low in the precursor
of DMS (can't remember offhand, SMM?), so this should'nt be a problem,
especially if you adhere to standard procedures for minimizing DMS.
  The precursor of DMS is a gas that can be driven off during the boil.
Use a vigorous boil, and leave the pot at least partly uncovered.  When
the boil is finished, chill the wort below 140F as quickly as possible.
A wort chiller is very helpful here.

>3)  I want some malt flavor in the finished beer.  What temp should
>      I use for sacrification (sp?)?

  Use a temperature at the high end of the sugar rest, say 158F or so,
which favors alpha amylase activity and should give you a more dextrinous
wort.

*************************************************************

  Jonathan Knight writes:

>I am wondering what people think about brewing in the summer, specifically
>regarding the increased danger of little airborn animals falling into your
>cooling beer.

  IMHO, this is far more problematic than controlling fermentation
temperatures, which can be dealt with in a number of ways (fridge with
external controller, wet t-shirt method).

>So, here is the question.  If windows are kept closed during the wort-cooling
>period and I am otherwise extra-careful with sanitation,

>I should add that I do not
>have a wort chiller,

  Jonathan, you've pretty much addressed the issues associated with warm
weather brewing.  Pollen and wild yeast counts are higher in warmer weather,
so being extra careful with sanitation and minimizing or eliminating air
circulation during the wort cooling period are very important.  Of course,
using a wort chiller to get to pitching temperatures quickly is also very
helpful.  Also, if possible, try to brew on rainy days, when pollen and wild
yeast counts are reduced.

>TIA as usual for any scientific data, empirical observations, or momilies.

  I brewed about a dozen batches throughout last summer, with no infection
problems at all.

*************************************************************
 
  Douglas DeMers writes:

>I use two fresh pieces of aluminum foil over the top of the kettle,
>arranged in the following manner.  I set my chiller inlet/outlet tubing
>so that they stick up in the middle of the kettle.

  I built my chiller so that the inlet/outlet tubing are just inside the
edge of the pot.  With the lid on, there is only about 1/2" space left 
open, which I also cover with tinfoil.

>Certainly it's not perfect, but it makes me feel a lot better than if
>the kettle were open or partially covered by the lid

  Ditto.  See eliminating air circulation during the wort cooling period
above.


                                     Cheers,
                                      Jim


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 28 Jun 93 21:33:46 EDT
From: rgarvin at btg.com (Rick Garvin)
Subject: AHA National Contest


It was just yesterday that I was grousing about not having received
my judging sheets back from the AHA yet. Well, today they arrived.
I was pleased to find that three of my beers had been promoted to
the second round: Barleywine, Imperial Stout, and Old Ale. The Old 
Ale won't impress anyone. I entered a fair 1.064 IPA in this category 
because it is a category that does not get many entries.

Overall the judges comments were consistent. This is something that has
gotten better through the years. There was one style that had "xerox"
comments. The two judges should have just signed the same sheet since
the only difference between them was the name. As a judge I understand
the balance that must be struck between collaboration and independant 
thinking. This problem was only apparent on one beer.

For each beer that was promoted a button was included that said 
"MY BREW KICKS BUTT" and "I'M A 2nd round Brewer." I can feel 
the beer snob in me preening. But, then I drank one of those Old Ales: 
"Too much hops" "Needs more malt" "Harsh Bitterness". And my favorite 
from judge Cliff Beringer "Good beer, harshness might prevent me from 
drinking more than 8 pints." Well, not a total loss.

Cheers, Rick

Rick Garvin rgarvin at btg.com
BTG, Inc. Navy Programs Division, Vienna, VA 703-761-6630

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1993 00:51:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: waltman at BIX.com
Subject: Bringing Homebrew into Canada

I have a family re-union this summer in Sault Ste. Marie, ONT., and I would
like to bring some homebrew. Is there any particular problem with importing
homebrew into Canada or should I bottle it all in old Coors bottles with the
labels still on <grin>? I would assume that I would have to pay duty just as
if it is store-bought beer.

Fred Waltman
waltman at bix.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 29 Jun 93 10:48:17 +0200
From: dejonge at tekserv.geof.ruu.nl (Marc de Jonge)
Subject: Tripel

In HBD 1170 Jim Busch writes:

>Since my latest visit to Belgium last month, I am getting real anxious to brew
>an authentic Belgium Tripple.  I though I would consult the HBD for any tips
>or opinions on the matter. My goal is a simple one, reproduce Bruges Tripple.
>I am aiming for 9-9.5% ABV, light pale color, warming alcohol presence but
>not overtly evident alcohol. 

Here are some data points (I haven't got a complete original recipe 
but I've made some pretty succesfull near misses)

Koningshoeven tripel has pilsner malt exclusively (for 8.5% Alc. by Vol.)
don't know about their hops. This tripel is very similar to the Westmalle,
perhaps just a little more body.

West Vleteren uses a large proportion of 'Record' hops, a Belgian Northern
Brewer variety (which I believe is again related to Hallertau) and some
Goldings.

The Brugge tripel contains somewhere around 20% wheat malt (From memory,
I haven't got my notes here).

>So for say 10 gallons:
>Pils malt to result in an OG of ~18P (1.073/4)
>5-6 lbs glucose/sugar/candi mix (is this close?)
>~20-24 IBU Goldings/Saaz/hallertau/Perle/Liberty?
>Yeast???? LaChouffe, Westmalle, Duvel? Suggestions excluding Wyeast Belgium :-)
>A combination?  I would assume a fresh bottling yeast is required.

>So all you high gravity pBelgium brewers out there, what do you think?

One of my best attempts was made using the following (again from memory, but
then there isn't that much to remember)

Pils malt, for an OG of 1090 (infusion mash)
2/3 Belgian Northern brewer 1/3 Kent Goldings, for a bitterness about
half that of traditional Pilsner
yeast cultured from West Vleteren (the dark red caps, like a dubbel),
I expect Westmalle will also do (I haven't tried it)
Fermented somewhat cool, as I wanted the malt to dominate (I think 63F)
Bottled with some of the original wort. No extra yeast added but
next time I might, because carbonation took three weeks.

The result was very close to the Koningshoeven tripel both in flavour and
appearance, definitely one of my best top fermenting brews..



Marc de Jonge                   (dejonge at geof.ruu.nl)



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1993 10:52:57 +0000
From: G.A.Cooper at qmw.ac.uk (Geoff Cooper)
Subject: Protein/Nitrogen in Wheat

Al <korz at iepubj.att.com> writes

>I was just on the phone yesterday with a food industry wholesaler
>regarding unmalted wheat.  I had read from Jean-Xavier Guinard's
>book, Lambic, that the raw wheat that they use for lambieks is
>soft, white, low-protein wheat.  Furthermore, he said that the
>protein levels were typically 1.8 to 2.1 percent total dry weight.
>
>Now, this did not go over well with the wholesaler -- their wheat
>typically has 11 to 14% protein.  I looked up the protein levels
>in DeWolf-Cosyns Wheat MALT and they were "10.61% total protein as is"
>and "4.85% soluble protein."
>
> ...                                             I suspect
>that somehow there was a mixup in the protein levels in Guinard's
>otherwise spectacular book -- perhaps a misunderstanding by the
>brewers?  Perhaps they were quoting soluble protein and less is
>soluble before malting?  

Alternatively, someone is inadvertently quoting the Nitrogen content as 
protein - a plausible error given the correlation. The data I have on Baird's
wheat malt is that it contains a maximum of 2.2% total Nitrogen. Remarkably
close to your figures of "1.8 to 2.1". Just speculation though, but maybe
worth checking.

Geoff


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1993 07:28:16 -0500 (CDT)
From: dspalme at mke.ab.com (Diane Palme x2617)
Subject: Door County Beers

Howdy All!

	In yesterday's HBD, I happened to notice an article about the beers of
Cherryland Brewing, Sturgeon Bay, WI.  It talked about how the beer was brewed
and a fruit juice was added at bottling time.  Now, I had the opportunity to
sample some of Cherryland's Apple Bach at the Kenosha Beer Festival two weeks
ago and I was pleasantly surprised.  This stuff was good!  Being the cider
fanatic that I am, I was to the point of hijacking the truck and doing some
serious imbibing.  I also resolved to make an apple beer and the net.wisdom
seems to hold that making a hard cider and a very light beer and combining the
two at bottling time might be the way to go.  I am currently in the process
of making my first cider and if it doesn't turn out quite the way I want, I
may consider the mix and mash thing.  Regardless, I wanted to make one more
point.  I found some bottles of the apple bach in the cooler at my local home-
brew supply store and promptly purchased a six-pack.  The stuff was awful! 
Absolutely no flavor of apples (smelled like 'em tho) and none of the crisp
sweetness that so overwhelmed me at the festival.  :-(  Any input as to why
this happened?  The beer is in big, brown bottles and looks like it was stored
at room temp.  If I can manage to drink the beer, I will at least get a set of
nice bottles for my cider.  Oh, and one more thing:  the rest of the beers 
from Cherryland are barely passable.  The Gold and Silver Rails are not all 
that exciting and the cherry beer seems to go the same way as the apple bach.

Hmmmm.  Enough rambling for one day!  

Prosit!

Diane Palme
Department Engineer, Central Inspection
Allen-Bradley Co.
(414) 382-2617

P.S>

The hops are huge!   I am in fear for my parent's life!  :-)
- -- 
	" God does not play dice "
					- Albert Einstein

	" Nor is it our business to proscribe to God
		How he should run the world. "

					- Neils Bohr

Return to table of contents



End of HOMEBREW Digest #1171, 06/30/93