FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  RE: Extract darkening with boil (lyons)
  Dextrose (fjdobner)
  brew places/Toronto (ghultin)
  Parking in Seattle; Hunter Airstat in Milwaukee; DA FLOOD! ("Roger Deschner  ")
  Irish Moss - Extract vs All Grain (lyons)
  1/2 bbl SS keg as brewpot (again) (Mike Peckar  14-Jul-1993 1700)
  Don't touch the hops! (WESTEMEIER)
  pin-lock fittings (John Fitzgerald)
  Irish Moss (Alex Simons)
  Hop Storage, Part One (Mark Garetz)
  Hop Storage, Part Two (Mark Garetz)
  New Orleans area trip report (Jim Sims)
  Purchasing Supplies (Kristof_Mueller)
  "Seriously Stupid Advice" ("John DeCarlo")
  sugar (LLAPV)
  Irish Moss/polyclar (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  Hot Break Terminology (Spencer.W.Thomas)
   (CBRAGG)
  Mint Beer (Wolfe)
  Anchor Dry Hops ("Rad Equipment")
  Jever....? (Chris Pencis)
  Trip to Belgium (Dave Justice)
  BruHeat Insulation (Craig Vandeventer)
  stuff (Steve Casselman)
  Weihenstephan #66 ("Dennis Lewis" )
  More sugar (LLAPV)
  Re : Irish Moss (Conn Copas)
  Re: Parking in Portland (Richard Stueven)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 12:44:58 EDT
From: lyons%adc2 at swlvx2.msd.ray.com
Subject: RE: Extract darkening with boil

Subject: Extract darkening with boil

>In HBD #1179, Johann Klaassen writes:

>>Could it be that my hour-long boils have darkened
>>the otherwise light malt (which would shock me)?  

>Funny you should mention this, because this very weekend I was at my local
>brew store talking to the guy there about brewing with extract.  I usually
>brew all-grain, but due to time constraints I'm doing an extract batch
>next, and so I was getting some advice on it.  He said that boiling does
>indeed darken malt - he thinks it's actually an oxidation process and that
>splashing the wort around a lot when hot darkens it even more.  His
>solution:  do a mini-mash of your specialty grains first (crystal,
>chocolate, etc.), strain the grain out, then boil the hops in that water,
>and only add the extract for the last twenty minutes of the boil, thus
>minimizing the time the extract is boiling, but still giving you the full
>time for the hop boil.

>How does this technique sound to the more experienced extract brewers out
>there?

I believe doing a full boil with only a small fraction of the malt
would drastically increase the hop utilization.

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 12:29 CDT
From: fjdobner at ihlpb.att.com
Subject: Dextrose

My comments of yesterday regarding fermentability of Duvel confused dextrose
and dextrin. Dextrose is completely fermentable and dextrin is not.
Thanks for the many e-mail messages.

Frank

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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 9:35:42 PDT
From: ghultin at sfu.ca
Subject: brew places/Toronto

Answering the question about brew-it-here places.
I am writing from British Columbia.  In Canada (generally) a business
is allowed to RENT you equipment for you to brew your beer on 
their premises.  You select recipe, get ingredients from bulk barrels,
mix everything together, stand around and wait.
They help you connect hoses to cool beer and pump into a keg.  Later,
you come back and bottle it. (They store it, in primary and secondary
in room-sized coolers, and force carbonate with C02)

Re: Toronto
A bar serving lots of local brews is C'est What? on Front Street.
Also Rotterdams and Amsterdam (2 different places) brew their own.
There are several microbreweries around.  If your pal goes to C'est What,
your pal will discover easily from the bar staff their locations.

geoff.


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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 14:42:10 CDT
From: "Roger Deschner " <U52983 at UICVM.UIC.EDU>
Subject: Parking in Seattle; Hunter Airstat in Milwaukee; DA FLOOD!

Three Amtrak trains run daily from Seattle to Portland. Schedule:

Seattle ---> Portland                 Portland ---> Seattle
 7:30AM       11:30AM #26              7:55AM        11:50AM #796
 9:50AM        2:00PM #11              2:10PM         6:10PM #25
 5:30PM        9:25PM #797             3:50PM         8:05PM #14

I just personally saw the Hunter Air Stat in the Builders Square on I-94
on the south side of Milwaukee. It's in the electrical department, about
an aisle beyond all the light fixtures and ceiling fans. They had plenty
of them, in a display with a bunch of other Hunter stuff, like ceiling
fan mounting brackets, speed controls and such.

And those of you who know I live in Chicago may ask what was I doing in
Milwaukee? Well, I was in Milwaukee to watch Sprecher Brewing Company
(a thriving micro) slide into the river. This same catastrophic monsoon
season which has made Middle America into the Mississippi Ocean, got the
ground so soaked during the last week of June at the Sprecher Brewery
that it gave way and slid into the canal. The building has stayed put, so
far, but has developed an ominous crack through which you can see the
river outside. Access to the front door is by a hurriedly constructed
wooden gangplank. Brewing has continued nervously, but uninterrupted. I
understand Randy Sprecher has accelerated his search for new quarters for
his brewery. The building, fortunately, is rented.

Anyone know of any other washed out or flooded breweries? What about
Dubuque Star, which is on low land by the riverbank?

See everyone in Portland!

- -- Roger Deschner, UIC, CBS, BJCP, ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ

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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 15:58:12 EDT
From: lyons%adc3 at swlvx2.msd.ray.com
Subject: Irish Moss - Extract vs All Grain

I've noticed in Charlie's book that he lists Irish Moss as an 
ingredient for All Grain recipes, but not for Extract recipes.  Am I 
correct to conclude that only All Grain recipes will benifit by 
using Irish Moss during the last 15 minutes of the boil?

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 14:00:11 PDT
From: Mike Peckar 14-Jul-1993 1700 <m_peckar at cscma.enet.dec.com>
Subject: 1/2 bbl SS keg as brewpot (again)


Hi again.  Last week I requested a copy of a bygone HBD article posted on
converting 1/2 bbl kegs. I never got a response. What I did get, however,
is lots of email expressing interest, so I felt compelled to ask again for
the article in question. This time my request is for a repost, though,
since there seems to be lots of interest...

Anyway, in the mean time, I kind of came up with my own idea on what to do
with the rounded stainless steel keg I came across, and since folks asked
via mail, I figured I'd reply here. Basically, what I plan on doing is
cutting the top off, installing a drain faucet, and sealing off the
bunghole. No rocket science there. I am curious what others have done,
though, and how different folk use SS kegs to mash/lauter. What I was
considering was simply attaching a screen to the inside of the drain faucet
kind of like a test tube with the open end sealed around the inlet to the
faucet. My friend who uses this method using a cooler with great results
calls this his "screen penis". I believe he said he got the idea from an
article in a trade magazine, I think it was The Yankee Brew News. Anyhow,
look like a fun project, and I'll keep you informed as this project 
progresses. For now, I've already started hacking away at the top...

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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 20:43:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: WESTEMEIER at delphi.com
Subject: Don't touch the hops!

A note of warning to all novice backyard hop growers:
 
It's still quite early in the season, but there may be some parts of the
country where people are getting ready to start harvesting hops.
 
If you've done this before, you can skip to the next message.  If not,
please take a word of advice.  Poking around amongst hop bines is an
activity that usually required both a pair of light cotton work gloves
and (important!) a long-sleeved shirt.
 
A great many of us are very sensitive to these delightful plants.  I don't
know if it's the physical action of the tiny spines on the bines, or the 
hop oil itself, or some combination, but if you're like me, your arms and
hands will be covered with nasty red welts and itch like crazy if you don't
take these simple precautions.
 
I was reminded of it today, since my Cascades were so heavy that the twine
they were growing up broke last night and I had to replace it with a much
heavier variety.  I have various varieties planted around the deck in back
of my house, and they grow up poles to about 8-10 feet, then up heavy 
twine to the eaves of the house.  Crossing over the deck, they add some shade,
and (lucky me!) my wife really likes they way they look.
 
Again, PLEASE don't try harvesting these beauties with bare arms.  Unless
you're in the small minority that is not sensitive, you'll itch for at
least a couple of days.
 
Ed Westemeier   Cincinnati, Ohio

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Date: 14 Jul 93 16:12:00 PST
From: John Fitzgerald <johnf at ccgate.ScrippsRanchCA.NCR.COM>
Subject: pin-lock fittings

A couple of digests ago there was some mention of a need for a special
tool for removing pin-lock fittings on soda kegs.  Another poster 
mentioned the use of vice-grips (sorry for the lack of names of the
posters).  I just wanted to mention that I use a 13/16" open ended
wrench, it slips on the fitting just fine (the shape of the fitting
allows the wrench to fit from one direction without destroying the
pins).  

Happy Brewing,
John Fitzgerald
(just mailed off my last 2 Bouncing Baby Dopple-bocks for 2nd round
judging...does anybody know if we will receive additional feedback
from the judges from this next tasting?)


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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 22:14:02 -0700 
From: Alex Simons <alexsi at microsoft.com>
Subject: Irish Moss

In HBD #1180, Jeff Frane made some observations about  the use of Irish
Moss. I am in absolute accord with jeff, and have found that adding 1
tablespoon of Irish Moss per 5 gallons makes all the difference. I
would also recommend using the flaked rather than powdered as I have
had better luck with it.

Using several different Wyeast strains as well as Nottingham Ale yeast,
I have found that the Moss aids flocculation immensely. I have also
found it helps to settle the "floaties" I often encounter when using
specialty malts. I was initially worried that I might have settled out
so much yeast as to make carbonation difficult, but have found that in
general, bottled with a the standard amount of Corn Sugar, these ales
take only a few days (5-7) longer to reach a satisfactory level.  And
bottling was never so easy....

I might also add that in the same area, I have had a great deal of
success using Polyclar added during the last 48 hours into the
secondary fermenter. In one batch of a light raspberry wheaten-ale,
which I had split into two carboys, the carboy with the Polyclar came
out substantially cleaner in both appearance and taste than one without.

I am now a fervent fan of both...

Alex Simons
**********************************************
Alexsi at microsoft.com
No fancy insignia, lots of time to other things.....
**********************************************



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Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 23:20:53 PDT
From: Mark Garetz <mgaretz at hoptech.com>
Subject: Hop Storage, Part One

Here is the post I promised a while ago on hop storage.

Introduction

Hops have three main ingredients that brewers care about:  The alpha
acids, the beta acids and the essential oils.  Normally we concern 
ourselves with only two of the three:  alpha acids and the oils.  

The alpha acids are bitter, but they don't dissolve well in beer so they
need to be changed into a form that does dissolve well.  In brewing, this
is caused by boiling and the process is known as isomerization.  The 
resulting isomerized alpha acids are soluble in beer and are still bitter.

The beta acids are not bitter and they are not isomerized by boiling (nor
are they changed into a bitter form).  They are, however, bitter when 
oxidized.

The oils are responsible for the aroma of the hops, and enter into the
beer's flavor profile for short boil times, steeping, used in a hop back or
dry hopped.

All of these three components undergo changes as the hops age.

Hop Harvesting and Processing

All hops are harvested once per year, beginning as early as late August and
continuing through October, depending on the hop variety.  The hops are  
dried and in the US, baled in 200 lb bales.  The bales are made by
compressing the hops and then wrapping them in burlap.  Some of the hops
will be ground and pressed into pellets.  Some hops in the UK are compressed
into "plugs" that weigh about 1/2 an ounce.  The level of compression in
these plugs is much higher than the level in the bale.  In Germany, some
hops are compressed into 11 lb "bricks" and then vacuum sealed.  The level of
compression is about 3-4 times that of the US bale.  (And BTW, in the UK
the plugs are known as pellets)

The hops are then stored in huge warehouses at around 30 degrees F (this
temperature differs depending on the broker, and the outside temperature).
They stay there until they are shipped to a brewer or hop supplier.  Most
small brewers buy enough hops at the start of the hop season to last all 
year, but they are stored at the hop broker and shipped periodically to 
the brewer.  This keeps the brewer from needing a huge cold storage facility.
Also since most small brewers don't have hop analysis equipment, this allows
the hop broker to keep tabs on the alpha acid and oil contents as they 
change over time.

Only the megabrewers pay to have their hops shipped refrigerated.

Hop Deterioration

Hops start to lose their alpha acids and oils as soon as they are harvested.
The rate is dependent on the storage temperature, amount of air present and
the hop variety.  Basically, the lower the temperature, the less the hops
deteriorate.  Oxygen also causes the alpha acids to oxidize and one of the
oxidation components is responsible for the "cheesy" aroma of old hops.  The
oxidized alpha acids cannot be isomerized and are no longer bitter.  So O2 is
definitely bad for alpha acids.  If you remember, the beta acids turn bitter
when they are oxidized, so some believe that this makes up for the loss of
alpha acids.  In fact, it has been argued that cold storage and anerobic
conditions are not necessary for bittering hops, as long as the boil is long
enough and open enough to allow the cheesy aroma to escape.  But brewers
aren't buying the argument (who can blame them).

The variety of the hop also plays a major role.  For reasons yet unknown
certain hops store better than others under the same storage conditions.  
The American Society of Brewing Chemists has a procedure for measuring the
"storageability" of hops called the Hop Storage Index and involves taking
readings of hops stored at 20C (68F) when "fresh" and six months later.
Unfortunately, this only gives us two points on a curve and compares the
storage properties of one variety vs. the other, but won't help us predict
what happens to the same variety for differing storage times.

The oils also deteriorate and oxidize over time.  It is believed that some
oxidation of the oils is beneficial to the hop aroma.  Since most homebrewers
have no idea what the oil content of their hops are (a fact I'd like to see
changed), they're not aware of the oil losses.  But they should be since  
knowing the oil content is just as important for aroma additions as knowing
the alpha acids is for bittering additions.  And consistency of results 
aside, a lot of brewers end up using more hops by weight for finishing and
dry hopping than for bittering.  So it makes economic sense to know the oil
content.  (OK, I'll get off my soapbox.)

Hop Storage

So for best storage conditions, the hops should be stored as cold as possible
(30 to -5F) and away from air.  The compression of the hops into bales,
pellets and plugs helps keep all but the surface layers away from air.  Even
so, air still penetrates and causes some oxidation.  The cold temperature
slows the oxidation process.  As was mentioned earlier, some hop varieties
don't store as well as others.  At some point in the season, hop brokers
will take all remaining unsold bales of poor storage hops and turn them into
pellets.  Not only does the pellet keep out a lot of oxygen, but since they
take up so little space they can now be vacuum packed to further slow the
deterioration.

BTW, the reason pellets are so prevalent in the homebrewing trade is that 
they deteriorate more slowly than whole hops when stored in less than ideal
conditions. 

Now the compression of the whole hops slows the oxidation because it's harder
for the O2 to get at the hops.  But when the bale is broken up to be 
portioned into homebrewer sized quantities, the compression is lost.  Now
air can get at the hops much more easily.  The plugs are a good compromise
between pellets and whole hops.

Hop Packaging for Sale to the Homebrewer

Vacuum packing or inert gas packaging in an O2 barrier material is the best.
The common type of O2 barrier packaging is the "boiling bag" which is clear
and made from a lamination of two types of plastic:  The inner layer is a
food grade polyethylene (the same stuff zip lock bags are made from).  It
is *not* a barrier material, but does make a good heat seal and is the main
reason it's there.  The outer layer is made from polyester (aka mylar) and
is what provides the barrier.  The next step up is the aluminized mylar
bag (aka foil bag or pouch) and this adds a layer of aluminum that increases
the barrier protection over 10-fold.  It also more than doubles the cost so
it's not widely used even though it's better.  

Some suppliers still insist on selling their hops in polyethylene bags.  
These provide almost no barrier protection and you should avoid a supplier
that uses them as they obviously don't care about the quality of the hops.

To tell the bags apart, I assume you know what a zip lock or sandwich bag
feels like.  These are polyethylene.  You can smell the hops right through
the bag (this should tell you something).  The clear barrier bags are 
noticeably stiffer and thicker.  They are also "shiny" and not "frosted" 
like the polyethylene bags.  The foil bags look either silver or gold.


To be continued...

Mark

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 14 Jul 93 23:21:41 PDT
From: Mark Garetz <mgaretz at hoptech.com>
Subject: Hop Storage, Part Two

Hop Storage, continued


What To Do When You Get Them Home

Firstly, if the hops are not packaged properly (and you had no choice but to
buy them) you need to get them in suitable barrier packaging as soon as 
possible.  If you're going to brew with them in the next week or so, don't
worry about it, just put them in the freezer for now.  If the hops were
packaged properly, don't open them until you need to.  Store them in the
freezer.  Once you've opened them, the biggest problem is what to do with
the remainder.  If they came in a vacuum sealed bag, the best thing to do is
reseal the bag with a "home quality" vacuum sealer.  These cost anywhere
from $20 on sale to $100 depending on the seal width (and length) and the
amount of heat they put out.  Even the cheapest sealer (the Decosonic from
Best Products) will put out enough heat to seal the standard clear barrier
bags.  They will not unfortunately put out enough heat to seal the aluminized
bags.  Look around in kitchen supply departments and hardware stores and
the best bet is to take an old piece of bag with you and see how it seals.
You can always transfer the hops to the bags that come with the sealer, but
beware that the bags with the cheap Decosonic are not true barrier bags,
but they're better than polyethylene.  If you keg or otherwise have CO2 or
nitrogen available, you can flush some mason jars with the gas, put in the
hops and add a layer of gas and reseal the jar.  I advise you to practice
with the gas as it's very easy to blast your hops all over the room.  And
always always always use a regulator!  If you can't do any of this, put the
hops in a mason jar and put them in the freezer, it's better than nothing.

How Long Will They Last?

Well, like most things in brewing, the answer is "It depends."  If you keep
them cold and free from O2 hops should "last" a few years.  It's not 
uncommon for hop brokers to be selling hops from 2 or 3 seasons ago that have
been pelletized and vacuum sealed.  This is not to say that the oils and
alpha acids will be exactly the same as when you purchased them, but the hops
won't be "bad".  There is no practical way I know of to estimate the loss in
oils or alphas.  We could assume from the hop storage numbers listed below
that the relationship is linear and could be therefore calculated, but I'm 
not sure that's right.  As I stated earlier, we have only two points on a
curve to go by.  But as a practical matter, you can expect reasonably stable
numbers for about 6 months if you store the hops in the freezer (a non-auto
defrost freezer is best) at -5F and under gas or vacuum packed and in barrier
packaging.  Of course you'll get better results from the better storing hops.

Hop Varieties and Their Storage Numbers

The following table is compiled from several sources, mainly from data
provided by hop brokers and the book "Hops" by R.A. Neve (Neve's data is
by his own admission "suspect" since it was itself compiled from lots
of sources and lots of different storage conditions.  I have used his data
only to fill in gaps in the hop broker's data which was compiled in a more
scientific manner (generally following the ASBC method).  Neve lists only 
"words" like "fair" whereas the broker's data is listed as a percentage
alpha acid remaining after 6 months at 20C (68F).  This is how you can tell
the two sources of data from each other).

Variety                 % Alpha Remaining after 6 mo. 
                        at 20C or Storage Quality
Cascade                          50%
Fuggle                           63%
Domestic Hallertau               55%
Domestic Hersbrucker             50%
Liberty                          40%
Mt. Hood                         55%
Perle                            85%
Domestic Spalt                   50%
Domestic Tettnanger              58%
Willamette                       63%
Centennial                       63%
Chinook                          68%
Cluster                          83%
Eroica                           60%
Galena                           78%
Domestic Northern Brewer         80%
Nugget                           75%
Czech Saaz                       50%
Tettnang Tettnanger              58%
German Spalt                     55%
Hallertau Hersbrucker            60%
Strisselspalt                    65%
Hallertau Northern Brewer        75%
Hallertauer Mittelfruh           good
Huller Bitterer                  moderate
East Kent Goldings               good
Brewers Gold  (UK)               poor
Wye Northdown                    good
Wye Challenger                   good
Wye Target                       poor
Styrian Goldings                 good (this hop is actually a Fuggle)
Pride of Ringwood                poor

Hope this shed some light on the issue, which reminds me, light can also
cause the hops to deteriorate.  This is not really an issue at home (but
it does finally give us a real justification to determine if the light
really goes out in the fridge!) but it in an issue in you local homebrew
supply.  The hops should not be sitting in a well lighted place if the
packaging is clear.

Mark





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Date: Thu, 15 Jul 93 09:54:00 EDT
From: sims at pdesds1.scra.org (Jim Sims)
Subject: New Orleans area trip report

 I just got back from spending a few daze over in and around the
Crescent City, checking our the local brewing vista.

 Note: I'm not an 'official' beer judge. My taste buds aren't real
 sophisticated. Your mileage (highly) likely to vary...

 In New Orleans, there's Dixie Brewery, the South's oldest (190?).
Dixie is located on Tulane Ave, a bit away from downtown and the
quarter. They're renovating right now, so no touring of the facility
was possible

 They make a mediocre lager which was all that was available
when i used to live there. But hey, when I lived there coke(tm) was
 .50 a can, Dixie was .35 a can, you figure out which one a student
buys - But honest, mom; i'm saving money by drinking beer ;-)

 In the last coupla years they've added two new brews:

 Jazz - a nice tasting Amber, good color, really nice Hop nose, not a
 hoppy taste, though. (I dont much go for strong hop taste, but found
 I really liked this strong nose and almost no hop taste combination).
 Of the three brews, this was my favorite - stacks up favorably to
 _any_ beer, as far as a good, drinkable beer.

 Blackened Voodoo Lager - only had one of these, not bad, but i
 wouldn't go outta my way to get one and would take an amber is
 offered the choice. I *like* dark beers, so it's not that i would
 just choose any amber over any dark, either. They claim it's aged in
 cyprus casks. try it, but dont expect too much.

 Also in New Orleans, down on Decatur street, across the street from
the old Jax Brewery (RIP) and about 2 blocks toward Canal street is
the Crescent City BrewPub. Note that their beer cant be sold off the
premises. Get it there or do without. My recommendation - GO GET SOME.

 They serve beer in small mugs (like most pubs/bars), medium (1/2
litre?) pilsner style glasses, and LITER mugs.

 We tried to get a tour of the brewing equipemnt there, but the
Brewmaster was in Germany and the other person we were refered to
declined. 

 They brew 4 beers:

 Pilsner - tasted like one to me. I tried a sip of someone else's. Not
 my favorite style of beer so I didn't waste the drinking time on it.

 Red Stallion - a light amber sorta thing, kinda seemed like a cross
 between a pilsner and an amber to me. Pretty tasty. Good beer.

 Dark Forest - Here's a great beer. Dark, good choclate malt taste (at
 least i think that's what it is, see my (dis-)qualifications above).
 I really liked this beer, and consumed several liters just to be sure.

 seasonal speciality brew

 Liberty lager is the current specialty brew - it's kind of a most
 amber-like version of the Red Stallion brew. If it weren't for the
 awesome Dark Forest, i'd been drinking this one. Try it (if you get
 there soon)

 Special mention goes the the Pizza place (cant remember the name)
over on the other side of the quarter at the corner of Decatur and
Barracks. They do _great_ wood-baked pizza and are the only place I
have *ever* seen Chimay trippel (25 oz bottle for $9, compare to reg
bottled beers at $2.50) on the menu on a regular food establishment.

 We stopped by Brew Ha-Ha on magazine street (uptown) and chatted with
the owners for a while. He's a transplant from New York who couldn't
believe that 

 there is a brew club, brew pub, brewery, and no homebrew supply store

 rent for an apartment and storefront was only $450 (in NY the same
 storefront alone would be "about $5000")

 So, he took out a $4000 loan and opened a store. He's "quitting my
 day job" after just under a year in business and seemed to be real
 happy and doing well. Nice folks. his girlfriend was brewing out back
 while we were there. Offered some good advice/tips also. Check them
 out if you're in the area.

 And across the lake in Abita Springs is Abita Brewery. (take the
Abita Springs exit from I-12, go north - you go right past the
brewery just before _the_ red light in town) Started by a coupla
homebrewers back in the mid-80s, now distributed/sold  across the 
south from Texas to North Carolina, "selling more than we brew".

 We got an extensive tour of the facility (they're expanding the
fermenting stuff to a building down the road). Real nice folks.
Currently three brewers and a total (i think) of 14 employees.

 They grind 1800 lbs of grain into the masher, hold it at ~150 for ~
an hour, sparge to another tank and 'boil'? for about another hour,
then whirlpool it to remove the hops, etc in a third tank for another
hour or so, and filter it into the fermentation tanks.

 They have an ancient bottling machine, just got a new keg
washing/filling setup (used to do them by hand). Pretty interesting
setup. 

 They're currently brewing 4 beers also:

 Abita Amber - nice amber beer. good stuff

 Abita Golden - only tried a small bit of this, seemed OK, but nothing
 real notable

 Turbo Dog - an interesting dark beer. kinda (excessively) roasted
 malty tasting to me, you might like it if you like dark beers, hard
 to say. About the name - "yeah, the owners were sitting around
 drinking one day after brewing the first batch and came up with that"

 the current specialty beer is Abita Wheat - this was a real nice
 wheat beer. I liked it a lot (and sampled it repeatedly afterwards
 just to make sure ;-) Give it a try if you get a chance.

Thats it for now. Enjoy!

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Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1993 10:13:30 EST
From: Kristof_Mueller at voyager.umeres.maine.edu
Subject: Purchasing Supplies

I was just wondering,  I am 20 years old, and plan on brewing as soon as I
get my apartment (in Sept.).  I know that legally I cannot brew beer until
I'm 21, but can I buy supplies as a "minor"?  It seems to me that anyone
should be able to buy a bucket and some grains.   Does anyone know the laws
that apply here?  Thanks for your help.
- --Kris



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Date: Thu, 15 Jul 93 08:59:06 EST
From: "John DeCarlo" <jad at pegasus.mitre.org>
Subject: "Seriously Stupid Advice"

OK, several people have misread my previous posting, so let me try again:

1) Thank you Al, for posting and then *refuting* seriously stupid advice 
from some retailer.  It is definitely the case that some who sell 
homebrewing supplies know something about brewing while others know 
absolutely nothing and spread bad advice.

2) Starting a siphon with your mouth is probably a bad thing.  However, 
while it is certainly *possible* to get an infection in your beer this way, 
I personally would put this as not in the top 20 most likely ways of 
infecting your beer.  So, I just wanted to say that Al was going a little 
overboard in implying that this would certainly result in an infection.

John "I thought everyone was reading this in the context of Al's nice 
little series.  Oh well, sorry for the possible misinterpretation." DeCarlo

Fidonet: 1:109/131   Internet:  jdecarlo at mitre.org

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Date: Thursday, 15 July 93 09:17:35 CST
From: LLAPV at utxdp.dp.utexas.edu
Subject: sugar

Howdy,

I've seen discussion brewing (haha) on the topic of sugars.  One thing I've
noticed is that folks have been saying brown sugar is white sugar with
molasses added.  Actually, it's more the opposite;  it's sugar without the
molasses-type syrup removed.  When sugar cane is processed (they don't make
brown sugar out of beets cuz it tastes nasty), it basically is in a syrup
form.  It goes through a centrifuge, where the unprocessed white sugar is
removed.  Brown sugar is then extracted from the syrup.  The crystals are
covered with a film of colored, highly refined molasses flavored syrup.
After this, the remaining syrup is what molasses comes from.  You get two
kinds, light & blackstrap.  They take the light off first, then the rest is
blackstrap.  The whole process works out to light to dark, crystals to syrups,
pure sucrose to lotsa leftover goodies.

Turbinado is the stuff that comes off first but is not completely refined.
It's 99% pure sugar.  Light molasses is 90% sugar, & blackstrap is 50%
sugar & 2.8% protein, with lotsa trace materials, including ash, vitamins,
rat hairs, etc.  As with brown sugar, beet molasses is too nasty tasting
to use.

So, that's the sugar scoop.

Alan, Austin

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Date: Thu, 15 Jul 93 10:24:30 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: Irish Moss/polyclar

Let me relate a story:  Last fall a fellow brewer (Josh) & I made 10 gallons
of Vienna.  We split the wort into two fermenters, pitched the same
yeast into both, and each took one home.  We fermented at the same
temperature for about the same time.  At this point, our paths
diverged.  Josh fined his with PolyClar, bottled, conditioned, and
then lagered.  I lagered in secondary, then bottled & conditioned.
When it came time to taste, we found that

1. Josh's beer was (slightly) clearer,
2. My beer had more of that yummy malt flavor.

Draw your own conclusion.

=S

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Date: Thu, 15 Jul 93 10:36:13 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: Hot Break Terminology

What Jeff says meshes nicely with some of the books on historical
brewing I've been reading recently (things like _The English Housewife
 ..._, by Gervase Markham around 1600; _Wines & beers of old New
England_,  S. Brown, 1978).  You find statements like "boil it until
it 'breaks'".  This seems to imply that the break happens at the end.

=S

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Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1993 10:50:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: CBRAGG at bentley.edu
Subject: 


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Date: 15 Jul 93 10:14 CST
From: Wolfe at act-12-po.act.org
Subject: Mint Beer


     The other day I was eating a bowl of mint chocolate chip ice
 cream that I happened to be washing down with a homebrew (I know,
 it's sick.), when I got an idea for that mint plant in our yard that
 has turned out to be more of a tree than an ornamental plant.  (I
 live in Iowa, and those things must love the rain.  It is HUGE!  I'm
 talking, about 20 stalks almost 3 feet tall.  And I transplanted it
 from a single sprig in April.).  I'm envisioning a mint beer that has
 an aftertaste that kind of makes you cock your head to one side
 and raise an eyebrow (like the ginger beer that I just brewed).

     Anyway, I've looked all over for a recipe and have yet to find
 one for mint beer.  Has anyone out there experimented with mint?
 I've used leaves off of this plant in cooking a lemon herb chicken,
 and it tasted great.  I've also used the leaves in tea.  I was
 thinking about brewing about a gallon of mint tea (to see the ratio
 of mint to water) and using about six times the weight in mint for a
 five gallon batch of beer (six times, rather than five, because I
 figured the malt would cover up some of the mint taste).

     Any suggestions?

     Ed Wolfe
     WOLFE at ACT-12-PO.ACT.ORG
     Iowa City, IA

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Date: 15 Jul 1993 11:41:20 U
From: "Rad Equipment" <rad_equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.edu>
Subject: Anchor Dry Hops

Subject:  Anchor Dry Hops                       Time:10:08 AM    Date:7/15/93
Al Says:

>more difficult to remove the hop bag than loose hops
>from a carboy (not an issue for Anchor, with their open fermenters)

Sorry Al, Anchor only uses the open fermenters for primary fermentation. The
dry hopping occurs in the secondaries which are closed. The hop bags are pillow
case size.

And...

>It's not NO2 and I don't believe there's any nitrogen at all in the cans.

While you are correct that the Draught in the cans is a unique recipe and so
tastes considerably different from what we are used to (the bottled version)
there "is" liquid nitrogen added to the Draught as it is canned. This is used
to increase the pressure in the can to insure that the velocity of the beer
going through the pin hole as it exits the plastic pillow is correct upon
opening. The nitrogen is really a mechanical device in this respect since it
does not dissolve into solution like CO2 does. It should not add any flavor to
the beer but might be said to alter the "taste" as it is responsible for the
creaminess of the head which will certainly be a factor to one's perceptions.
Using the nitrogen/CO2 combined gas (or guinness gas as our local distributor
calls it) will not in itself alter a homebrewed stout's taste or head creation.
You'll need a tap designed to produce the head coupled with the special gas.

RW...

Russ Wigglesworth (INTERNET: Rad_Equipment at radmac1.ucsf.edu - CI$: 72300,61)
UCSF Dept. of Radiology, San Francisco, CA (415) 476-3668 / 474-8126


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Date: Thu, 15 Jul 93 14:10:57 CDT
From: chips at coleslaw.me.utexas.edu (Chris Pencis)
Subject: Jever....?

Ok, here's a question from my homebrewing partner...does anyone out
there know anything about the beer Jever...on the label it says
something about using "freisian herbs"  (where's fresia?!) ... does
anyone know what these things are - has anyone tried to replicate this
brew ... in general, can anyone give us the low down on this beer (its
not in Jackson, Finch or anywhere in Papazian) ... thanks.
				good luck and good beer,

					Chris
======================================================================
|Chris Pencis 				chips at coleslaw.me.utexas.edu |
|University of Texas at Austin		Robotics Research Group	     |
======================================================================

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Date:         Thu, 15 Jul 93 09:04:28 CDT
From: Dave Justice <DD24005 at UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU>
Subject:      Trip to Belgium

 Greetings! I hope this an appropriate question for this forum. I'm off
 to Europe 2 weeks from today and could use some suggestions on beer and
 brewing related places to visit in Belgium. I'll be there 2-3 days,
 arriving in Oostende and eventually making my way to Bonn, Germany.
 I suppose anywhere in the country is possible since it's fairly small.
 Any recommendations based on your experiences are welcome.
 TIA  - Dave J.

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Date: Thu, 15 Jul 93 09:50:40 -0500
From: cwvandev at hwking.cca.cr.rockwell.com (Craig Vandeventer)
Subject: BruHeat Insulation

I also had trouble with the BruHeat holding it's heat. I was constantly 
turning on the element to maintain mash temperatures(a royal pain in the
butt). I scorched the element a couple of times even. What I did to fix
the problem was I wrapped 2 layers of pipe insulation tape around the 
entire bucket and then taped it down securely with duct tape. I used an
Xacto knife to cut the holes for the spigot and heating element. On my last
mash I didn't have to turn on the heating element to maintain mash temp. It
also boils alot faster now, too.

Craig Vandeventer

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Date: Thu, 15 Jul 93 11:20:05 PDT
From: sc at vcc.com (Steve Casselman)
Subject: stuff


So let's see ... sucrose is used to store the yeast
so they don't swell and burst from osmosis. 
sucrose is a disaccharide of glucose and fructose that
has at least two stable configurations, normal
and inverted. Yeast cannot metabolize (break down)
normal sucrose without first inverting it with
invertase. Inverted sucrose then is more digestable
by the yeast - which means it takes less engery
to metabolize it and therefor there are less side 
reactions (and by-products no doubt) in the process. 

I also wanted to share an experiment I did regarding
bacteria in the month and on the hands. I took a plate
(agar) and put my thumb and finger prints on one half
and spit on the other half. By far the worst offender
were the thumb prints which grew over night, the finger 
prints came next and about day 4 something was growing
out of the spit side. This makes sense since the mouth
does have a changing pH during eating which prohibits
bacteria growth (a good defence for an animal that
eats just about anything). My conclusion is that
contamination comes not when puting lips to hose
but touching said hose with the hands and sticking
that into the carboy.

Also I'm going to be up in portland hangin' with
the gang and am planing to bring my guitar and harp
for acoustic fun if you want to join in!

The number for Brewers Resource is 1-800-8BREWTEK 
(the K is silent) 1-800-827-3983

For the people who like chewy beer I sugest roll oats
roll barley or wheat the chewyness comes more from the proteins
than the dextrins.

The hot break begins at the begining of the boil, 
anyone unclear on this should bring an all grain
(extracts have small hot breaks) beer just to
boiling and then turn the burner down to observe
the floculation of proteins. IMHO no hops should
be added untill a hot break occurs as hop introduce
nucleation sites that would otherwise be started
by the larger proteins. This will give a brighter
beer. By the way the hot break happends when the
larger protiens come in contact with the interphase
between steam and wort cooking them just as blood
will form a solid when heated. I've seen flocs
the size of dollar bills in my 40-gal brew system
allways at the begining of the boil.


Steve Casselman
 
- --------------------------------
|Massively Reconfigurable Logic|
|        Out Performs          |
|Massively Parallel Processors |
|Virtual Computer Corporation  |
- --------------------------------

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Date:         15 Jul 93 10:42:21 CST
From: "Dennis Lewis" <DLEWIS at jscdh6>
Subject:      Weihenstephan #66

I've seen a couple articles lately about German wheat beer yeasts.
Thanks to the person who posted the The Brewer's Resource (BREWTEK)
phone number for the wheat beer strains. The guy I talked to was
extremely helpful.

Is the Weihenstephan #66 weissbier yeast available commercially?
(like from Wyeast or GW Kent...) Phone numbers of known suppliers
would be greatly appreciated.

BTW, we had a wheat beer tasting at my last homebrew club meeting.
Every German wheat beer brewed was fermented with the Wyeast 3056
strain (the 50/50 mix). And without fail, every beer tasted like an
ale with plastic in it. I have used this yeast and found it to be
terribly lacking. If you are planning a wheat beer, do yourself a
HUGE favor and seek out a good yeast (ie, not the 3056).

I have a dunkles weissbier going now with the 3068, and it tastes
terrific! Can hardly wait to bottle this liquid gold.


Dennis Lewis
Homebrew, The Final Frontier.

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Date: Thursday, 15 July 93 11:03:27 CST
From: LLAPV at utxdp.dp.utexas.edu
Subject: More sugar

Howdy,

Here's more info on sugar (I had to look this stuff up).

Invert sugar is primarily used by the food industry.  It's sucrose that has
been broken down into it's two constituent molecules by hydrolyzation.  The
two molecules are dextrose (glucose) & levulose (fructose).  It has
moisture retaining properties good for baked goods, icings, & preserves.  I
can't see why one would want to brew with it, but who knows, you might
discover something really cool & groovy.

I _think_ that candy sugar is 80% white sugar & 20% corn syrup that's been
boiled in water.  Again, I think it is, but am not sure.  Because of variances
in language development & because there is an ocean between us, Belgians
might be using something different & calling it candy sugar.

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Date: Thu, 15 Jul 93 20:09:40 BST
From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas at lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re : Irish Moss

This Irish Moss thread got me reading a CAMRA brewbook by Wheeler this morning.
Normally, I regard him as a touch light-weight, but he claims that it is
impossible to achieve a decent cold break with home chilling equipment, and
that Irish Moss is a good alternative to forced chilling of the wort in order 
to precipitate trub. In fact, this auxiliary fining effect is supposed to
linger on into the bottling stage, where it can be cancelled by oppositely
charged finings such as isinglass. Note that Wheeler doesn't seem to have any
experience with counterflow chillers, BTW. Over to Miller. He ventures that IM
could be useful for ales which have not received a protein rest. As ale malt
is not reputed to contain protein digestion enzymes anyway, I presume the 
problem that Miller is really referring to is that of using wheat malt and/or
flaked cereals without a protein rest.

- -- 
Conn V Copas
Loughborough University of Technology          tel : +44 (0)509 222689
Computer-Human Interaction Research Centre     fax : +44 (0)509 610815      
Leicestershire  LE11 3TU              e-mail - (Janet):C.V.Copas at uk.ac.lut   
G Britain                                      (Internet):C.V.Copas at lut.ac.uk


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Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1993 09:27:16 -0700
From: Richard Stueven <gak at wrs.com>
Subject: Re: Parking in Portland

/Don sez:

>Btw, it`s also worth mentioning that the conference hotel does not provide a
>free shuttle bus to/from the airport.  There`s a private bus that serves
>several of the downtown hotels, however.  Yet another cost to add to your
>budget for the week.

If a bunch of us arrive at the same time, we could share cabs...

Just a thought.

have fun
gak

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1183, 07/16/93